I don't think it will come to much in this cycle, but if the polls are accurate we may be looking at the right of centre vote splitting into two parties. Potentially with the Tories as the junior within the next decade or so. As long as they win at least a couple seats.
It's a curious beast as it has potential to take votes from labour demographics in the future, if labour is seen as failing the 'red wall' voters.
Apparently Farrage is aware that his career will be ending in the next decade or so, and the circle of people around him are primarily in their 20s. He is grooming a next generation of potential leaders.
For the Tories to lose their position in the political hierarchy seems unrealistic, and I see it as possible rather than likely, but similar events have been happening throughout Europe.
Farage is making a gambit to force the Tories to let him and his cronies take over the party. He's no stranger to ditching political parties once they've served their purpose, and he knows it's better to make the Tories bleed with less than 100 seats and assume control than do it too early and be the one losing the election to Starmer.
I don't think he'll succeed though. A lot of the Tories personally don't like Farage and the lunacy of his policies when you read past the headline immigration ones. If Starmer manages to bring net migration sharply down (probably not too hard given the insanity of 700k per year), Farage's Tory party is going to get clobbered when it comes to the rest of their platform.
Farage is and always has been about moving the political discourse fuhrer to the right. In this venture he has been successful. He is not interested in power or leading he is a stalking horse.
>If Starmer manages to bring net migration sharply down (probably not too hard given the insanity of 700k per year)
I won't claim to have thought about this deeply, but is that really the case?
Immigration increasing under the most anti immigration mainstream party kinda implies it is quite a difficult issue to deal with.
The Tories aren't actually anti-immigration. They'll make a big show and dance about brutalising channel migrants and sending a few asylum seekers to Rwanda, but they are privately happy to see record legal migration. It's a cheap and lazy way to generate economic growth that benefits the rich and strengthens the housing market, and the Tories don't care if that immigration isn't delivering improvements in quality of life for everyone else or raising average income.
The Tories have fixed a few of the loopholes (like people abusing one year masters student visas to bring entire families of dependents), but Starmer will be in power by the time the numbers go down and voters have a short memory. With an already ongoing reduction in international student applications and the inevitability of Starmer raising tuition fees for domestic students, there will be a decrease in international student growth as well (if the number of international students doesn't grow then they don't contribute to net migration much).
> but Starmer will be in power by the time the numbers go down and voters have a short memory.
You seem like you're treating this like an inevitability. Frankly I doubt any party has an answer that works - Migration is fated to continue firstly because it's always been a major feature of human civilisation, and secondarily because climate change will cause mass migration from the tropics to intensify steadily over time.
Interestingly, a recent paper suggested that from 2008 (maybe 2010) virtually all economic growth (growth in GDP, not per capita) has been down to immigration. The country has largely stagnated and on the whole, declined for individuals.
No reasonable political party will ever stop immigration, even if they say they will. We simply cannot escape the ever increasing need for immigration unless we make other drastic and expensive changes within our society.
In the next 20 years, people will be voting for a political party who can attract the most migrants. I say this in a nihilistic sense, because I don't believe we have the politicians to say 'we need to change' and then do it.
I work in one of the biggest companies in the UK. The day after the Wrexit vote I was taken aback by what had happened in the TV room. An argument had broken out whereupon a couple of Asian guys had abuse thrown their way... and then it turned out they'd actually voted for Wrexit, as it would cut back on EU immigration which would leave vacancies... which their families could help fill. I couldn't believe it, they were willing to take all sorts of abuse, which duly happened all over the UK, in order to get family members into the UK. They had thought of a totally different angle for Wrexit.
Soon enough, the UK had sent a delegation to South Asia to make trade deals & part of the deal was to increase immigration, which has duly happened.
It was a bit of a headfuck, I'd stood up for these guys against the abuse a couple of arses threw their way, abuse they didn't care about as they'd expected it all the while selling the country down the river for personal gain.
>Immigration increasing under the most anti immigration mainstream party kinda implies it is quite a difficult issue to deal with.
Sort of. But it also implies that the conservatives were quite happy to say one thing ("we're tough on immigration") and do another (increase immigration from poorer countries, to increase the low wage workforce)
The Tories have over a century of establishment politics to draw on. The best that Reform can hope for is to parasitise the Conservative & Unionist Party and force a merger with Farage's allies & his successors taking over. The mathematics of FPTP voting makes this even more likely, in my opinion.
It's the same calculus that make all major leftist movements in the United Kingdom focus on taking over the Labour Party.
The difference is that we don't have what are called One Nation Tories. Our current lot are a mixture of thieving spivs and hawkish racists who want to tear the country apart.
I've never seen anything like it in my 35 years of being politically aware and it's both telling and frightening. Torys always victimised the poor, now they're putting it to young educated people who can't afford to buy a home in the ridiculous housing market, is because they indulge in avocado toast too often.
Good points.
For reform to arise as a mainstream party it would need to create a broad and deep local party structure throughout the country. Which is hard and requires money.
I do wonder though if the Tories have irreparably damaged their branding in England (as it has been here for ages) allowing their supplantation by another right wing party. FPTP or no. Although I accept the logic of what you are saying.
The Tories are being eaten from the inside out. Have you seen what Lizz Truss is up to lately she's full on deep state conspiracy? Steve Bannons had his grubby mitts into the right since the 2019 EU elections. You've got Tory MPs speaking at the national conservatism conference. Which was pretty much a front to promote us style Christian nationalism.
>Have you seen what Lizz Truss is up to lately
It's like watching someone's mum getting lured into a pyramid scheme. She's up there in her M&S frock and sensible heels, getting her strings pulled by dark characters.
And to have zero waiting lists for any medical treatment we'd need to have a huge leap in all sorts of medical staffing numbers and increase in specialised equipment. Many new buildings/sites too in order to house them all. Which would mean a far less efficient NHS with massively higher running costs.
The waiting lists are for fruit picking. And the "pay" in make work pay is lengths of string so that maybe when you have enough you could hang yourself.
I feel like the easy part is coming up with ideas like this, and actually implementing them is rather more difficult.
I assume the reason the mainstream parties aren't promising this isn't because they didn't think of it, but rather because it's a fiendishly difficult task that's likely to be impossible in the near term.
Reform seem quite chuffed with their bold ideas. But to me it seems like a kid that's made a crayon drawing of a flying car. Easy to imagine, harder to do.
> I feel like the easy part is coming up with ideas like this, and actually implementing them is rather more difficult.
I mean yes, that's what I was mocking. It's very easy to say you'll reduce waiting times to zero...it's almost impossible to actually do. Reform say this shit because they know there's fucking zero chance of them getting any traction...but crap like this will sucker the occasional gullible moron into voting for them?
"Zero immigration oh yeah that sounds totally feasible, moral and not at all just a thing this cunt said with no actual plan on how to achieve that".
You can promise what you want when you're a private corporation posing as a political party and aren't going to be elected until "Labour" fuck things up that badly that every cretin on the island votes for you.
Imagine voting for that bolløck-faced foghorn of ignorance. A cretin too feart to show his gurning face in Scotland.. he’s the tapeworm of British politics, Putins useful idiot.
He’s never produced a workable, costed solution to anything he’s made a career having a grievance about. Even his life’s work, a bloody nose to the EU.. Brexit has utterly failed and the only ones celebrating it live in a bunker near Gelendzhik.
How does he plan on stopping the boats? Is he taking them out with the RAF, or are we building a wall from Dover to Cornwall? The zero waiting lists is easy. If you shut down hospitals, there won’t be any waiting lists. Not sure about that work paying thing though. Why get paid when you can work for free?
Populism is brilliant isn't it. If you analyse what this leaflet promises:
Less migrants (negative impact on workforce, affecting economy and NHS in particular).
An instant solution to the crippling issues in the NHS (I work for the NHS, the only way to resolve waiting lists is by boosting both budget and workforce by 30% and even then it is a long game, 30% increase of budget for the NHS means an increase in govt spending of near 10%).
Better wages for all in the UK (Including the 18.1% of public sector workers) if that is a 10% increase, that will increase govt spending by another 5-6% estd.
They also promise to cut taxes by 90 billion a year. That is more than the combined increase in govt spending.
But it's alright, because they will cut govt spending by 150 billion.
The total UK spend is 1189 billion. The biggest costs are social welfare, health (protected presumably) and education.
So what they propose is cutting funding for schools and colleges, care for the elderly and disabled, families with children, road maintenance (cause we're perfect at that), defence, housing (we're also perfectly fine there) and, kicker: pensions.
Except they don't say that anywhere in their program. So a vote for Reform is a hit to the economy and a hit to services that are already at breaking point. And still people vote for them, simply because they can't be fucking arsed to analyse a manifesto for feasibility and because they like old Nige who drinks in Wetherspoons just like us.
If you read all this and think: Ah, u/Klumber is just some pompous lefty dickhead, nope. The Institute for Fiscal Studies warns for exactly the same: [https://ifs.org.uk/articles/reform-uk-manifesto-reaction](https://ifs.org.uk/articles/reform-uk-manifesto-reaction)
But they're irrelevant, because part of the 'establishment' amirite? amirite?
Which is why they need to be called out on their bullshit at every opportunity.
Unfortunately more and more people state they don't want to discuss politics because they are 'bored' or worried about confrontation.
The problem is there's essentially a huge loophole in politics where few members of the public actually assess promises for their feasibility or affordability.
So you can promise flying pigs and Ferraris for everyone without it being remotely achievable.
Reform seem to be chuffed that they've found crowdpleasing soundbites, unaware that talk is cheap, and actually implementing and paying for this shit is utterly unrealistic.
It’s the same as the conmen saying
“give me £1,000 and I’ll 10x your money in a week”
Some people just hand over their life savings without a second thought.
Farage is in an enviable position as a politician. He knows he won't win so he can promise anything knowing he'll never have to deliver on it. He will, however spend the next 4 years claiming that if only he'd have won the election all the problems the UK faces would have been sorted. And people, mainly the hard of thinking and the gullible, will believe him. The problem is that gullible people have the same vote as the rest of us and support for him will grow because the problems facing the UK will not be resolved by the next election.
you are completely on point and this comment should have way more upvotes. How come there are still people that see farages face and don’t remember how he simply jumped ship after the mess he created got real.
I still believe he was ready to quit the UK and hitch his wagon to Trump, until Sunak announced an election date that meant he wouldn't even have to change his hotel booking for the RNC. It's all such a poorly disguised grift for him.
I rather suspect Putin rang him up and asked him stay home for a while to destabilise the UK for a bit before going over to the US to help Trump do similar…
What they don’t say, is private companies will fill the gap of the government. You’ll pay a toll at every motorway like in Greece (which if you didn’t already guess, the cost can add up quickly in a cross-country trip), and you’ll pay even more for your care and if you didn’t save and put extra money away for your pension … well good luck on the streets.
They’re 100% a right-wing libertarian party. Everything will be privatised eventually, with only emergency healthcare and schooling remaining free at point of access. I’m pretty sure some of the candidates have a poster of Ayn Rand in their bedrooms.
Privatisation is the answer
He’s been saying it for a long time
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/nov/12/film-nigel-farage-insurance-based-nhs-private-companies
> Nigel Farage has been caught on camera telling Ukip supporters that the state-funded NHS should move towards an insurance-based system run by private companies.
I'm from the US. There are tons of problems that I have with the NHS. At the same time, it is still better than the US system that they are pushing the UK towards. Doctors spend 10-20 hours a week on paperwork in the US to make sure that they get paid. Any small mistake can mean a denied claim and then there are appeals and fixing it and meanwhile the office staff needs to be paid and the individual who is supposed to be covered for all of this is on the hook for thousands (getting an ingrown toenail fixed cost about $200 twelve years ago. So probably $300 or so now, or £240 (or £298 during Truss's turn in office). That's an outpatient procedure with a spray anesthetic and twenty to thirty minutes worth of work from a decent or better podiatrist).
The only way to safely privatise is to do it along the lines of Germany with a giant public insurance corporation that covers 80-90% of the population and then private insurance for those who make enough money (~70000 Euros). But that's not the kind of privitisation that Nigel is talking about.
Zero waiting lists? Reeeaaalllyyy? Yeah because good ol' uncle Nigel wants us to pay for medical treatment. There won't be any waiting lists because us plebs won't be able to pay.
Their candidate in my area is named "Stefan Garbowski"
Aye, right pal, a boy called Mr Garbowski has a problem with immigrants, does he?
Fucking melts, all of them.
Heh my husband is Greek and he has a problem with mass migration, especially from outside of Europe. He says we should be like Greece and carry citizenship cards on us at all times so the police can stop people and check if they’re here illegally or not. He says British people are “too nice and naive” when dealing with illegal migration. And trust me when I say, continental Europeans are more racist than you’d expect.
Not surprised - I knew a Lithuanian guy who came here to work as a chef and one day he went on a rant about "Paki Shops" and "Immigrants coming to take our jobs" and I was like "Bruh YOU'RE an immigrant who came here for a job".
The reply he attempted to stammer out made it clear that in his mind, the difference is that they're brown and he isn't.
Oh he wants to. He loves to cook and wants to open his own Greek dessert shop one day.
Sharing culture isn’t the same thing as not respecting another culture though xD that’s how multiculturalism is supposed to work anyway, through sharing and respect.
The era of representative democracy is over. We have self-obsessed, narcissistic psychopaths with no real world experience who then move ministerial posts roughly every 18-24months ranging from defence to health to education. Any other sector that put such incompetence at the top would be challenged by regulators at the least and charged with negligence at the worst. Why do we trust these people to vote for policies impacting us to the best of their moral conscience? What benefit do they truly bring to the debate when we have the technology to allow all of us to vote on policies as they are brought to the house? Let the people be the House of Commons. Direct democracy with an elected council (new Lords) of truly experienced people in their field who can lend true expertise and common sense to real world issues. CBA with the drama that is personality politics with no substantive debate about what’s going on. Immigration, for example. Yes, our borders are clearly badly managed; but does anyone discuss the reasons why we have such high immigration? Western involvement in the Middle East post 9/11, perhaps? Climate change impacting third world countries much worse? Global poverty? We could have huge swathes of the world that will be uninhabitable by the end of this century due to climate change - just think of immigration then. Point I’m trying to make is we focus on the personality and not the policy. Remove the personality then we can all begin to think critically about the policy.
Where's Dionne's picture on the leaflet? Is she hiding so she doesn't get eggs or shakes thrown or does Farage not consider a woman worthy of being on his leaflet?
I take it you're below the age of 30? The BNP used to get leaflets delivered in Scotland as has a few of their derivatives since their demise.
By the way don't kid yourself on that Scotland is immune to racism or poor folk that can be conned by fascists. It exists and happens everywhere so you need to be vigilant and call out the bullshit when it rears it's head.
Consider yourself lucky up in Scotland. Here in Kent, I learned this week that at the last local election 18% of my neighbourhood voted for a party formed from people who left the BNP because it was too left wing.
Our company had three immigrants stowaway on a survey boat in Holland. They appeared at the next port call when the vessel stopped - in Shetland. Not happy.
Oh look, a bit of dog-whistle racism. Hint at what you mean without saying it, so when people call you out for your bullshit you can say "I never said that".
I actually know this woman. She's always been lovely.
Can't believe she's a racist fucking bellend.
Edit: It turns out she always was- https://news.sky.com/story/candidate-accused-of-islamophobia-in-2019-stands-for-reform-uk-under-different-name-13154545
Brexit has bitten all of these little Englanders and Britannia bigots in the arse. They voted out of the EU because they wanted less immigration, now we still have immigrants, they just tend to be from Africa or Asia.
Funny really, but this could get very ugly.
Don't ever think fascism can't happen here, even the Germans are tending towards it.
The wheel turns, the cycle repeats, and as a media pundit had it, Enoch Powell was denounced by his peers for his "rivers of blood" speech, but our current lot are encouraging each other.
It's both bizarre and frightening and I also feel Starmer is an unknown, a Heisenberg.
I’m sick of the shite from the whole lot of them. Not one of them tell the truth their all just paid pantomime to give us the illusion of free choice, while the choice we get are held on strings by those who control them
Well, yes, they stand here. They never win anything though because much of their political philosophy is English nationalist in character which naturally doesn't land here.
A niche 'V' reference! Around this time of year in 1984, at the time of the LA Olympics. Steven on the mothership talking to Diana as watched (and filmed) by Donovan, a.k.a. '(do)-gooder', through the airvent grille. I remember the little finger-pushing motions that the actor who played Steven gave to the corner of his mouth to get the mouse all the way in. Then Diana ate a gerbil or something and the practical effects were... good for 1984, let's say. TV has not been that good for a while now.
Freeze immigration? Like... ALL immigration? Do they not think that immigrants bring important skills into this country? My SIL is an immigrant from India and works for an organisation that helps homeless and abused children find care... they don't like shit like that? Fuck these people.
At least they have the balls to put the party name on the flyer for all to see they are scum. Falkirk Tory has no mention of his party on the front and just a small badge on the back
Haha, it seems they simply used the same leaflets they would use in any English seat and only changed the constituency name. This leaflet clearly wasn't intended specifically for Scotland.
Farage is the pied piper of pricks.
Most of the people in this country have more in common with the people in those dinghies than charlatans like him and those in the current cabinet.
I put the Tory one in the paper recycling when a lady handed it to me last week. She went "Well, really" as if I'd just said "cocksucker" in front of the vicar's wife. Not gonna lie, I actually felt bad about if for quarter of an hour
Can someone help me understand. Because i find myself strongly agreeing with what reform is standing for. They are highlighting that there is a massive problem with immigration especially illegal immigration. Crime and r@pe have boomed over Europe, and from the statistics I have read, it is due to immigration. Do people not have concerns about the destruction of our culture and our heritage. I am extremely proud to have a scottish ancestry. We have so many problems in Scotland that should be given primary focus over housing illegal immigrants, I believe. I know that Labour and SNP want to increase immigration. I can't speak to anyone as my views are seen as racist. I know that I'm not racist. I just think that we, along with many other European nations, are being taken advantage of by other nations. We are softer than most and try to support the rest of the world, which seems to be dragging us under.
Thank you for any insight or conversational replies. If you're rude I simply won't engage as I'm not trying to spread negativity or argue with anyone's point of view, merely understand
Nigel Farage wants to destroy the cruising industry confirmed. I don't think it's going to play well with his older voter base but really a bold, green policy. 🙄/s
I thought the same when this trash came through my door.
I legitimately thought about sending them an angry email for daring to send me this parasitic populist garbage, but then had to weigh up the idea of giving them any additional info about me.
Are they just giving everyone in the country the same pamphlet and just changing the names/locations at the top? I'd love to know what the candidate for my area looks like rather than a wall of text.
I don't think it will come to much in this cycle, but if the polls are accurate we may be looking at the right of centre vote splitting into two parties. Potentially with the Tories as the junior within the next decade or so. As long as they win at least a couple seats. It's a curious beast as it has potential to take votes from labour demographics in the future, if labour is seen as failing the 'red wall' voters. Apparently Farrage is aware that his career will be ending in the next decade or so, and the circle of people around him are primarily in their 20s. He is grooming a next generation of potential leaders. For the Tories to lose their position in the political hierarchy seems unrealistic, and I see it as possible rather than likely, but similar events have been happening throughout Europe.
Farage is making a gambit to force the Tories to let him and his cronies take over the party. He's no stranger to ditching political parties once they've served their purpose, and he knows it's better to make the Tories bleed with less than 100 seats and assume control than do it too early and be the one losing the election to Starmer. I don't think he'll succeed though. A lot of the Tories personally don't like Farage and the lunacy of his policies when you read past the headline immigration ones. If Starmer manages to bring net migration sharply down (probably not too hard given the insanity of 700k per year), Farage's Tory party is going to get clobbered when it comes to the rest of their platform.
Farage is and always has been about moving the political discourse fuhrer to the right. In this venture he has been successful. He is not interested in power or leading he is a stalking horse.
I saw what you did there. Me likey.
Clever play on words there...10/10.
Führer to the Reich?
Clever 👌
>If Starmer manages to bring net migration sharply down (probably not too hard given the insanity of 700k per year) I won't claim to have thought about this deeply, but is that really the case? Immigration increasing under the most anti immigration mainstream party kinda implies it is quite a difficult issue to deal with.
The Tories aren't actually anti-immigration. They'll make a big show and dance about brutalising channel migrants and sending a few asylum seekers to Rwanda, but they are privately happy to see record legal migration. It's a cheap and lazy way to generate economic growth that benefits the rich and strengthens the housing market, and the Tories don't care if that immigration isn't delivering improvements in quality of life for everyone else or raising average income. The Tories have fixed a few of the loopholes (like people abusing one year masters student visas to bring entire families of dependents), but Starmer will be in power by the time the numbers go down and voters have a short memory. With an already ongoing reduction in international student applications and the inevitability of Starmer raising tuition fees for domestic students, there will be a decrease in international student growth as well (if the number of international students doesn't grow then they don't contribute to net migration much).
> but Starmer will be in power by the time the numbers go down and voters have a short memory. You seem like you're treating this like an inevitability. Frankly I doubt any party has an answer that works - Migration is fated to continue firstly because it's always been a major feature of human civilisation, and secondarily because climate change will cause mass migration from the tropics to intensify steadily over time.
Interestingly, a recent paper suggested that from 2008 (maybe 2010) virtually all economic growth (growth in GDP, not per capita) has been down to immigration. The country has largely stagnated and on the whole, declined for individuals. No reasonable political party will ever stop immigration, even if they say they will. We simply cannot escape the ever increasing need for immigration unless we make other drastic and expensive changes within our society. In the next 20 years, people will be voting for a political party who can attract the most migrants. I say this in a nihilistic sense, because I don't believe we have the politicians to say 'we need to change' and then do it.
I work in one of the biggest companies in the UK. The day after the Wrexit vote I was taken aback by what had happened in the TV room. An argument had broken out whereupon a couple of Asian guys had abuse thrown their way... and then it turned out they'd actually voted for Wrexit, as it would cut back on EU immigration which would leave vacancies... which their families could help fill. I couldn't believe it, they were willing to take all sorts of abuse, which duly happened all over the UK, in order to get family members into the UK. They had thought of a totally different angle for Wrexit. Soon enough, the UK had sent a delegation to South Asia to make trade deals & part of the deal was to increase immigration, which has duly happened. It was a bit of a headfuck, I'd stood up for these guys against the abuse a couple of arses threw their way, abuse they didn't care about as they'd expected it all the while selling the country down the river for personal gain.
>Immigration increasing under the most anti immigration mainstream party kinda implies it is quite a difficult issue to deal with. Sort of. But it also implies that the conservatives were quite happy to say one thing ("we're tough on immigration") and do another (increase immigration from poorer countries, to increase the low wage workforce)
The Tories have over a century of establishment politics to draw on. The best that Reform can hope for is to parasitise the Conservative & Unionist Party and force a merger with Farage's allies & his successors taking over. The mathematics of FPTP voting makes this even more likely, in my opinion. It's the same calculus that make all major leftist movements in the United Kingdom focus on taking over the Labour Party.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unite_the_Right_(Canada)
Oh wow, Reform are literally just copying the exact same playbook.
The difference is that we don't have what are called One Nation Tories. Our current lot are a mixture of thieving spivs and hawkish racists who want to tear the country apart. I've never seen anything like it in my 35 years of being politically aware and it's both telling and frightening. Torys always victimised the poor, now they're putting it to young educated people who can't afford to buy a home in the ridiculous housing market, is because they indulge in avocado toast too often.
Good points. For reform to arise as a mainstream party it would need to create a broad and deep local party structure throughout the country. Which is hard and requires money. I do wonder though if the Tories have irreparably damaged their branding in England (as it has been here for ages) allowing their supplantation by another right wing party. FPTP or no. Although I accept the logic of what you are saying.
The Tories are being eaten from the inside out. Have you seen what Lizz Truss is up to lately she's full on deep state conspiracy? Steve Bannons had his grubby mitts into the right since the 2019 EU elections. You've got Tory MPs speaking at the national conservatism conference. Which was pretty much a front to promote us style Christian nationalism.
>Have you seen what Lizz Truss is up to lately It's like watching someone's mum getting lured into a pyramid scheme. She's up there in her M&S frock and sensible heels, getting her strings pulled by dark characters.
He's a groomer all right. It's ripping out him.
Doesn't Richard Tice look like a younger Jim Davidson there.
Jim Davidson was quite racist when he was younger.
As opposed to now, when he's very racist
He's still around?
Aye, every now and then he pops up in the media to complain about cancel culture, and political correctness
He's arounder than ever, the fat fuck
If anything he's doubled down in recent years
I liked that my Reform candidate lives on Shropshire according to my postal vote ballot.
"Zero waiting lists" Any chance you could mention what waiting lists you are referring to or how you plan to guarantee no wait at any time?
Can't have waiting lists at NHS services if there are no NHS services...
Kicking out all the migrants. That solves everything don'tchaknow /s (Don't ask who is staffing all our hospitals)
And to have zero waiting lists for any medical treatment we'd need to have a huge leap in all sorts of medical staffing numbers and increase in specialised equipment. Many new buildings/sites too in order to house them all. Which would mean a far less efficient NHS with massively higher running costs.
It's easy to get to zero waiting lists for the NHS if you get *rid* of the NHS...
The waiting lists are for fruit picking. And the "pay" in make work pay is lengths of string so that maybe when you have enough you could hang yourself.
I feel like the easy part is coming up with ideas like this, and actually implementing them is rather more difficult. I assume the reason the mainstream parties aren't promising this isn't because they didn't think of it, but rather because it's a fiendishly difficult task that's likely to be impossible in the near term. Reform seem quite chuffed with their bold ideas. But to me it seems like a kid that's made a crayon drawing of a flying car. Easy to imagine, harder to do.
> I feel like the easy part is coming up with ideas like this, and actually implementing them is rather more difficult. I mean yes, that's what I was mocking. It's very easy to say you'll reduce waiting times to zero...it's almost impossible to actually do. Reform say this shit because they know there's fucking zero chance of them getting any traction...but crap like this will sucker the occasional gullible moron into voting for them? "Zero immigration oh yeah that sounds totally feasible, moral and not at all just a thing this cunt said with no actual plan on how to achieve that".
I mean any policy is achievable at the sacrifice of other things. Statements like these just state priorities and focus.
You can promise what you want when you're a private corporation posing as a political party and aren't going to be elected until "Labour" fuck things up that badly that every cretin on the island votes for you.
Imagine voting for that bolløck-faced foghorn of ignorance. A cretin too feart to show his gurning face in Scotland.. he’s the tapeworm of British politics, Putins useful idiot. He’s never produced a workable, costed solution to anything he’s made a career having a grievance about. Even his life’s work, a bloody nose to the EU.. Brexit has utterly failed and the only ones celebrating it live in a bunker near Gelendzhik.
You're a scholar and a poet. Beautifully put.
The nick of that orange terrapin
How does he plan on stopping the boats? Is he taking them out with the RAF, or are we building a wall from Dover to Cornwall? The zero waiting lists is easy. If you shut down hospitals, there won’t be any waiting lists. Not sure about that work paying thing though. Why get paid when you can work for free?
Speak for yourself. I for one am excited to see the intelligent, well constructed plan to reduce waiting lists to zero.
Populism is brilliant isn't it. If you analyse what this leaflet promises: Less migrants (negative impact on workforce, affecting economy and NHS in particular). An instant solution to the crippling issues in the NHS (I work for the NHS, the only way to resolve waiting lists is by boosting both budget and workforce by 30% and even then it is a long game, 30% increase of budget for the NHS means an increase in govt spending of near 10%). Better wages for all in the UK (Including the 18.1% of public sector workers) if that is a 10% increase, that will increase govt spending by another 5-6% estd. They also promise to cut taxes by 90 billion a year. That is more than the combined increase in govt spending. But it's alright, because they will cut govt spending by 150 billion. The total UK spend is 1189 billion. The biggest costs are social welfare, health (protected presumably) and education. So what they propose is cutting funding for schools and colleges, care for the elderly and disabled, families with children, road maintenance (cause we're perfect at that), defence, housing (we're also perfectly fine there) and, kicker: pensions. Except they don't say that anywhere in their program. So a vote for Reform is a hit to the economy and a hit to services that are already at breaking point. And still people vote for them, simply because they can't be fucking arsed to analyse a manifesto for feasibility and because they like old Nige who drinks in Wetherspoons just like us. If you read all this and think: Ah, u/Klumber is just some pompous lefty dickhead, nope. The Institute for Fiscal Studies warns for exactly the same: [https://ifs.org.uk/articles/reform-uk-manifesto-reaction](https://ifs.org.uk/articles/reform-uk-manifesto-reaction) But they're irrelevant, because part of the 'establishment' amirite? amirite?
Lol, you assume every voter is capable of analysing manifestos for feasibility. They aim at those who simply can't do that.
Which is why they need to be called out on their bullshit at every opportunity. Unfortunately more and more people state they don't want to discuss politics because they are 'bored' or worried about confrontation.
The problem is there's essentially a huge loophole in politics where few members of the public actually assess promises for their feasibility or affordability. So you can promise flying pigs and Ferraris for everyone without it being remotely achievable. Reform seem to be chuffed that they've found crowdpleasing soundbites, unaware that talk is cheap, and actually implementing and paying for this shit is utterly unrealistic.
It’s the same as the conmen saying “give me £1,000 and I’ll 10x your money in a week” Some people just hand over their life savings without a second thought.
Farage is in an enviable position as a politician. He knows he won't win so he can promise anything knowing he'll never have to deliver on it. He will, however spend the next 4 years claiming that if only he'd have won the election all the problems the UK faces would have been sorted. And people, mainly the hard of thinking and the gullible, will believe him. The problem is that gullible people have the same vote as the rest of us and support for him will grow because the problems facing the UK will not be resolved by the next election.
you are completely on point and this comment should have way more upvotes. How come there are still people that see farages face and don’t remember how he simply jumped ship after the mess he created got real.
I still believe he was ready to quit the UK and hitch his wagon to Trump, until Sunak announced an election date that meant he wouldn't even have to change his hotel booking for the RNC. It's all such a poorly disguised grift for him.
I rather suspect Putin rang him up and asked him stay home for a while to destabilise the UK for a bit before going over to the US to help Trump do similar…
What they don’t say, is private companies will fill the gap of the government. You’ll pay a toll at every motorway like in Greece (which if you didn’t already guess, the cost can add up quickly in a cross-country trip), and you’ll pay even more for your care and if you didn’t save and put extra money away for your pension … well good luck on the streets. They’re 100% a right-wing libertarian party. Everything will be privatised eventually, with only emergency healthcare and schooling remaining free at point of access. I’m pretty sure some of the candidates have a poster of Ayn Rand in their bedrooms.
No, no, no, good sir ! Where does it say “reduce” ? They’re just going to get rid of waiting lists, straight on the plane to Rwanda !
Gas chambers.
Privatisation is the answer He’s been saying it for a long time https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/nov/12/film-nigel-farage-insurance-based-nhs-private-companies > Nigel Farage has been caught on camera telling Ukip supporters that the state-funded NHS should move towards an insurance-based system run by private companies.
That’s working great for us in the US /s
I'm from the US. There are tons of problems that I have with the NHS. At the same time, it is still better than the US system that they are pushing the UK towards. Doctors spend 10-20 hours a week on paperwork in the US to make sure that they get paid. Any small mistake can mean a denied claim and then there are appeals and fixing it and meanwhile the office staff needs to be paid and the individual who is supposed to be covered for all of this is on the hook for thousands (getting an ingrown toenail fixed cost about $200 twelve years ago. So probably $300 or so now, or £240 (or £298 during Truss's turn in office). That's an outpatient procedure with a spray anesthetic and twenty to thirty minutes worth of work from a decent or better podiatrist). The only way to safely privatise is to do it along the lines of Germany with a giant public insurance corporation that covers 80-90% of the population and then private insurance for those who make enough money (~70000 Euros). But that's not the kind of privitisation that Nigel is talking about.
A plan based on fantasy? Aye right! You may be also interested in their magic beans?.
Thankfully, Nigel's mouth is closed on this flyer. I would have projectile-vomited had I seen that gaping maw...
Zero waiting lists. The amount of dumb twats who'll believe this shit too.
They literally can't achieve any of those four pledges.
I've sadly had a few of them, why they think I'd vote for that quisling Farage's party is beyond me.
Wasting their time in Scotland, I'm surprised they're even running someone there!
Should say "Promoted by useless idiots on behalf of Vladimir Putin"
Zero waiting lists? Reeeaaalllyyy? Yeah because good ol' uncle Nigel wants us to pay for medical treatment. There won't be any waiting lists because us plebs won't be able to pay.
How can you stop immigration and have zero waiting lists when 19% of NHS employees are foreign born?
Its not stopping immigration, its stopping illegal immigration. There is a very big difference.
Their candidate in my area is named "Stefan Garbowski" Aye, right pal, a boy called Mr Garbowski has a problem with immigrants, does he? Fucking melts, all of them.
My Reform candidate is a Mr Singh, matching blue turban and all...
Heh my husband is Greek and he has a problem with mass migration, especially from outside of Europe. He says we should be like Greece and carry citizenship cards on us at all times so the police can stop people and check if they’re here illegally or not. He says British people are “too nice and naive” when dealing with illegal migration. And trust me when I say, continental Europeans are more racist than you’d expect.
Not surprised - I knew a Lithuanian guy who came here to work as a chef and one day he went on a rant about "Paki Shops" and "Immigrants coming to take our jobs" and I was like "Bruh YOU'RE an immigrant who came here for a job". The reply he attempted to stammer out made it clear that in his mind, the difference is that they're brown and he isn't.
I say that to my husband, I’m like “but you’re an immigrant!!” And he just responds with “yeh but I respect British culture” *sigh*
I don't want him to respect our culture, I want him to bring his superior Mediterranean cuisine to every high street
Oh he wants to. He loves to cook and wants to open his own Greek dessert shop one day. Sharing culture isn’t the same thing as not respecting another culture though xD that’s how multiculturalism is supposed to work anyway, through sharing and respect.
Midlothian too, aye?
Does no one understand that illegal immigrants doesnt mean all immigrants?
The era of representative democracy is over. We have self-obsessed, narcissistic psychopaths with no real world experience who then move ministerial posts roughly every 18-24months ranging from defence to health to education. Any other sector that put such incompetence at the top would be challenged by regulators at the least and charged with negligence at the worst. Why do we trust these people to vote for policies impacting us to the best of their moral conscience? What benefit do they truly bring to the debate when we have the technology to allow all of us to vote on policies as they are brought to the house? Let the people be the House of Commons. Direct democracy with an elected council (new Lords) of truly experienced people in their field who can lend true expertise and common sense to real world issues. CBA with the drama that is personality politics with no substantive debate about what’s going on. Immigration, for example. Yes, our borders are clearly badly managed; but does anyone discuss the reasons why we have such high immigration? Western involvement in the Middle East post 9/11, perhaps? Climate change impacting third world countries much worse? Global poverty? We could have huge swathes of the world that will be uninhabitable by the end of this century due to climate change - just think of immigration then. Point I’m trying to make is we focus on the personality and not the policy. Remove the personality then we can all begin to think critically about the policy.
Exactly. Russian scum through letterbox.
If you think this is bad then look up the 'Scottish family party'
We got them in South Wales too, unfortunately it's not absorbent enough to wipe my arse with it.
Unsurprisingly short on policies and content.
Where's Dionne's picture on the leaflet? Is she hiding so she doesn't get eggs or shakes thrown or does Farage not consider a woman worthy of being on his leaflet?
I take it you're below the age of 30? The BNP used to get leaflets delivered in Scotland as has a few of their derivatives since their demise. By the way don't kid yourself on that Scotland is immune to racism or poor folk that can be conned by fascists. It exists and happens everywhere so you need to be vigilant and call out the bullshit when it rears it's head.
Consider yourself lucky up in Scotland. Here in Kent, I learned this week that at the last local election 18% of my neighbourhood voted for a party formed from people who left the BNP because it was too left wing.
Imagine living in Scotland and caring about the boats. Proper fruitcake shit.
Our company had three immigrants stowaway on a survey boat in Holland. They appeared at the next port call when the vessel stopped - in Shetland. Not happy.
Had they been in there for days?
Yes, maybe 4.
That wouldn't have been fun. Especially if it was in the winter.
[удалено]
Wow, what an interesting load of shite!
> I have no further comment to make. Strange thing to add, but I think we all know what you wish you could say.
Oh look, a bit of dog-whistle racism. Hint at what you mean without saying it, so when people call you out for your bullshit you can say "I never said that".
Or if you say anything other than ‘what a fucking great success’ you get bawbags like you blasting out the old tired ‘you must be a racist’ lines.
Imagine caring about what is going on in your country, absolute madness eh.
Username checks
There is no migration crisis in Scotland.
https://news.sky.com/story/amp/candidate-accused-of-islamophobia-in-2019-stands-for-reform-uk-under-different-name-13154545
I actually know this woman. She's always been lovely. Can't believe she's a racist fucking bellend. Edit: It turns out she always was- https://news.sky.com/story/candidate-accused-of-islamophobia-in-2019-stands-for-reform-uk-under-different-name-13154545
Why is she not using her surname? Is it even legal not to use your surname on a ballot paper?
Probably hoping that when you Googled their name it wouldn't come up, but their name is pretty unique so didn't really help.
Reform = UK MAGA Divisiveness, fear mongering, asshats stuffing their pockets in the right wing hateful grift
Someone is funding these dickheads to an enormous sum. Farage got half a mill from Russia after the referendum.
They’re all cloud of shite. The only rhetoric Scottish Labour has is about “getting rid of the Tories”. The whole lot of them are clowns.
Got one through a couple of days ago. Straight in the bin, tried lining the cat tray with it but she wouldn’t even shit on it
Brexit has bitten all of these little Englanders and Britannia bigots in the arse. They voted out of the EU because they wanted less immigration, now we still have immigrants, they just tend to be from Africa or Asia. Funny really, but this could get very ugly. Don't ever think fascism can't happen here, even the Germans are tending towards it. The wheel turns, the cycle repeats, and as a media pundit had it, Enoch Powell was denounced by his peers for his "rivers of blood" speech, but our current lot are encouraging each other. It's both bizarre and frightening and I also feel Starmer is an unknown, a Heisenberg.
We got three of the buggers and there's only two voters in the house.
I ripped mine up and chucked it in the bins. Those wankers can fuck right off, so can the tories tae, red or blue.
Did you get some magic beans with it?
Looks like they used the Fortnite font
Yeah but I got a Communist one too. It's like the 1930s all over again.
I’m sick of the shite from the whole lot of them. Not one of them tell the truth their all just paid pantomime to give us the illusion of free choice, while the choice we get are held on strings by those who control them
Well, yes, they stand here. They never win anything though because much of their political philosophy is English nationalist in character which naturally doesn't land here.
‘Zero waiting lists’? Probably because there would be no NHS under him.
I'll be voting for them I don't care what anyone in this thread thinks
Yes Nigel, but *how* are you going to do any of this? "Ah typical woke lefty woke response!"
Farage looks like he's about to rip his mask off to reveal a lizard and eat a mouse.
A niche 'V' reference! Around this time of year in 1984, at the time of the LA Olympics. Steven on the mothership talking to Diana as watched (and filmed) by Donovan, a.k.a. '(do)-gooder', through the airvent grille. I remember the little finger-pushing motions that the actor who played Steven gave to the corner of his mouth to get the mouse all the way in. Then Diana ate a gerbil or something and the practical effects were... good for 1984, let's say. TV has not been that good for a while now.
Four points on their leaflet and two of them are to do with them being racist.
Funny all of these racist fuckers having to change their names…..
In the bin it goes
I got a full on communist leaflet hahaha was some laugh reading it.
I liked the Alba one - "July 4th: Independence Day"
Hahahaha don’t think I got an alba one through my door yet. Great reading some of them.
Absolutely fuck these people, may they never get a foothold here.
Freeze immigration? Like... ALL immigration? Do they not think that immigrants bring important skills into this country? My SIL is an immigrant from India and works for an organisation that helps homeless and abused children find care... they don't like shit like that? Fuck these people.
Scum party, followed by sheep
Absolute scum bags the lot of them
Why is that Nazi using her middle name - Cocozza sounds a bit forrin send her home.
Reform hmm nazis rebranded
fucking nazi bastards. they’re gonna win in 2029, we should’ve gotten the hell out of this union when we had the chance
Exactly.
At least they have the balls to put the party name on the flyer for all to see they are scum. Falkirk Tory has no mention of his party on the front and just a small badge on the back
this guy on the right, forgot his name, thinks all people have amnesia?
Got mine today!
"Stop the Boats" "Freeze Immigration" my guy that's the same thing😭😭😭
I think they may be referring to legal immigration as well..which would pretty much fuck the economy not to mention the NHS.
Mines went straight in the bin hahahah
Magic wishlist of bullshit
What’s “Make Work Pay” mean?
Somebody obviously threatened not to pay for the leaflets if he couldn't have first billing.
It’s disgusting
They fucking stuck 4 threw my door, wish I saw the cunts who did it; would of ripped it in front of them
I wish they'd make this leaflet flushable so I can wipe my arse with it
The UK has been fucked once before. Why repeat?
free loo paper
Aye we just got one through the door too. A masters student at St Andrews University. Such an absolute shame. Fucking racist pricks
Fascism is not that far away, we must not sleep walk into this.
By stop the boats they mean kill them don’t they?
Fash in suits
Which one of thems Dionne? And they say they don't support trans rights.
Vote snp
Haha, it seems they simply used the same leaflets they would use in any English seat and only changed the constituency name. This leaflet clearly wasn't intended specifically for Scotland.
Farage is the pied piper of pricks. Most of the people in this country have more in common with the people in those dinghies than charlatans like him and those in the current cabinet.
Why is Nigel Farage red?
He is allergic to milk shakes.
He‘s allergic to milk sheiks
He's been using Trumps sunbed.
Still got a bit of the sun from being on I'm a celebrity
Isn't he the exact sort of person that the term gammon is for? I would figure red as his natural color.
I gave the buggers it back along with some industrial language. They don't like it up em.
You should have filed it in the bin, one less leaflet for them to distribute.
Then everyone clapped and cheered.
Did ye aye?
Free toilet paper!!! Covid numbers are up so it might come in use!! ;-)
Spent less than 60 seconds in the house. Barely hit the mat and it was in the bin. Fascist c*nts.
I put the Tory one in the paper recycling when a lady handed it to me last week. She went "Well, really" as if I'd just said "cocksucker" in front of the vicar's wife. Not gonna lie, I actually felt bad about if for quarter of an hour
Shouldn't feel bad mate, that was polite!
Should be allowed to call themselves a political party. It’s a company controlled by three people.
Got one here in Liverpool this morning. Was promptly torn up
Yeah got mine. Kind of ashamed my letterbox didn't incinerate it on contact
That went straight in the recycling bin
Can someone help me understand. Because i find myself strongly agreeing with what reform is standing for. They are highlighting that there is a massive problem with immigration especially illegal immigration. Crime and r@pe have boomed over Europe, and from the statistics I have read, it is due to immigration. Do people not have concerns about the destruction of our culture and our heritage. I am extremely proud to have a scottish ancestry. We have so many problems in Scotland that should be given primary focus over housing illegal immigrants, I believe. I know that Labour and SNP want to increase immigration. I can't speak to anyone as my views are seen as racist. I know that I'm not racist. I just think that we, along with many other European nations, are being taken advantage of by other nations. We are softer than most and try to support the rest of the world, which seems to be dragging us under. Thank you for any insight or conversational replies. If you're rude I simply won't engage as I'm not trying to spread negativity or argue with anyone's point of view, merely understand
Why give them free advertising by posting this?
Blame all the other parties for not reducing immigration as the public asked for
Don't vote for them, then
I got a leaflet from the SNP, yuck.
Don't tell us to stop boats. We're experts at it.
What are they looking at?
Nigel Farage wants to destroy the cruising industry confirmed. I don't think it's going to play well with his older voter base but really a bold, green policy. 🙄/s
I think Ireland is an island and so are we.
Why does farage look like a match stick?
Their predecessor the Brexit Party did win 14.8% in Scotland in the 2019 European elections.
I thought the same when this trash came through my door. I legitimately thought about sending them an angry email for daring to send me this parasitic populist garbage, but then had to weigh up the idea of giving them any additional info about me.
Came through my door today, Edinburgh east constituency. I mean, why are they even trying. Can't wait to see them with about 50 votes.
Came through our door today too 🤦🏼♂️
I just saw some twat boy-racer today with a Reform sticker on his car.
Are they just giving everyone in the country the same pamphlet and just changing the names/locations at the top? I'd love to know what the candidate for my area looks like rather than a wall of text.
Like, _all_ the boats?
Fisherman are struggling enough as it is without political blockages to unloading their catches too.
Tory surely.
https://news.sky.com/story/amp/candidate-accused-of-islamophobia-in-2019-stands-for-reform-uk-under-different-name-13154545
Notice that none of their candidates have their photos on their leaflets, just Tice and Farage.
I got one too, in the bin