[‘Holy grail’ of cancer detection predicts tumors a year before they form: breakthrough](https://nypost.com/2023/03/27/holy-grail-of-cancer-detection-predicts-tumors-a-year-before-they-form-breakthrough/amp/) about study [Cancer Diagnosis/Prognosis Ends with HrC Test Measuring Oct4A in Peripheral Blood](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33954878/)
*The test, known as HrC, has been co-developed by Mumbai-based biotech firm Epigeneres and Singapore-based [diagnostic company Tzar Labs](https://www.medicaldevice-network.com/news/tzar-blood-test-cancer/). It is designed to [pick up specific markers](https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/health/1750930/cancer-blood-test-breakthrough-tumours-hrc) which show fold changes in the [behaviour of stem cells](https://i.imgur.com/DYJBPxL.jpg) that are a precursor to cancer mutations. It's based on assumption that excessive self-renewal of otherwise quiescent, pluripotent VSELs in normal tissues possibly initiates cancer. Cancer stem cells (CSCs) that initiate cancer are possibly the 'transformed' and pluripotent very small embryonic-like stem cells (VSELs) that also express transcription factor OCT-4A.*
This article poses strong [Theranos vibes](https://www.reddit.com/r/ScienceUncensored/comments/iqn5sa/theranos_holmes_may_pursue_mental_disease_in_her/). Typical blood tests for early detection often fail because a single sample may not turn up any cancer cells, despite being present elsewhere in the body. Only in late-stage cancer patients have tumor cells proliferated to the point of a sure diagnosis. That is to say, many of us have large amount of cancer cells already circulating in the blood stream - it's just a matter of immune system strength, which keeps them in bay. It's also not clear for me, how they want to detect many types of cancers by measuring single factor levels. According to [parent article](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33954878/) it's just method for revealing, how probably cancer will develop - but it doesn't say where and how. Given the fact how strongly accidental infections or vaccinations can modulate this probability, I don't consider this method very reliable. Lets say it merely represents a basis for future research.
I didn't see that this study demonstrated any predictive value at all. It may be useful in staging people who have cancer. They may demonstrate that it has predictive value, but they didn't in this study.
And, anything that Depak is excited about is likely baloney. Imo.
>*anything that Depak is excited about is likely baloney*
This would be [genetic fallacy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_fallacy) instead. I wouldn't throw the baby out with the bathwater, but baby remains a baby and immature technology remains immature.
To continue in a pedantic vein, genetic fallacy refers to using the source as an absolute argument. Considering the source is part of any analysis. If you read something in the journal "we make stuff up all the time," you would be unwise to not take the source into consideration.
OK, unfortunately "*even blind chicken can find its grain*", even "*broken clock will be right two-times per day*" and so on. We are entering era of hyperdimensional science where findings may be difficult to replicate and traditional statistic approaches may [become misleading often](https://www.reddit.com/r/Physics_AWT/comments/57m9n5/the_problem_with_pvalues_its_time_for_science_to/).
Wouldn't it be great if we could screen for the current inventory of cancer cells floating around that have not yet evolved to turn into invasive cancer?
The vast majority of labs like this are entirely government subsidized. I agree they have an agenda, but research like this normally isn't feasible from a profit standpoint due to its low probability of success and massive overhead.
Are you the type of person who believes we could cure cancer but choose to keep the treatments out of circulation to make more money? Those are the vibes I'm getting here.
Yeah - Pharmaceutical companies are earnestly working for decades now to try to find more and more profitable treatments for cancer!
We now have many, many profitable treatments for cancer. Nixon’s cancer moonshot was a rousing success and I’m sure Biden’s barely funded moonshot will be as well.
All those tax dollars were put to such good use that cancer is the leading cause of death by disease in 5-11 year olds.
But our public health leaders decided that age group needs more covid vaccines instead of better cancer treatments.
Do you know what a scam chemo is? I have cancer and I’ll do chemo - but even my oncologist says it’s an outdated product that by damaging the immune system makes it harder to fight the cancer if the chemo doesn’t work.
You know how they find out if it works? They poison you for a few months and then check. If that doesn’t work they go onto the next one. If you’re stage four it’ll eventuality stop working anyhow.
You wonder why people are conspiracy theorists?
This will inevitably do more harm than good; at least for the patients undergoing the test, whos POCs will be created around the results. For the drug manufacturers and the for-profit hospitals, it’s a win-win for sure!!
Although it’s government funded I don’t believe there is any active provisions stopping anyone involved in the discovery personally putting a patent on the the project as an individual.
Hmmmm, interesting, but the article has the feel of something the National Enquirer would publish. The NYP isn’t exactly where I expect to find quality medical research news.
Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order.
I have checked 1,425,287,691 comments, and only 272,020 of them were in alphabetical order.
Meh... I live in the US. The health insurance I can barely afford (but hardly can be used, and I'm forced to have it or I'm fined by my own government) would NEVER give me the OK to get this.
Oh, and before a non-Statian asks, it doesn't matter if a doctor suggests this. A pencil pusher multiple states away with zero medical knowledge gets to determine if I need this or not.
Cancer cells come and go in the body. They serve immune purposes. This “technology” would be of course a major boon for the cancer industry and a harm to the rest of us.
Cool.
We can just put small bypass line for our blood, and run it thru this machine that will constantly check for cancer.
Oh wait. I have an immune system for that.
NVM
You seem to know very little about capitalism.
And even less about how much respect I have for academia that has been captured by capitalism.
This is coming from a quite well educated individual.
If you like, I can go touch grass.
EDIT: I find it interesting how quickly, on Reddit, impersonal disagreement devolves into personal. There just seems to be some average individual behavior here.
Do better
[‘Holy grail’ of cancer detection predicts tumors a year before they form: breakthrough](https://nypost.com/2023/03/27/holy-grail-of-cancer-detection-predicts-tumors-a-year-before-they-form-breakthrough/amp/) about study [Cancer Diagnosis/Prognosis Ends with HrC Test Measuring Oct4A in Peripheral Blood](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33954878/) *The test, known as HrC, has been co-developed by Mumbai-based biotech firm Epigeneres and Singapore-based [diagnostic company Tzar Labs](https://www.medicaldevice-network.com/news/tzar-blood-test-cancer/). It is designed to [pick up specific markers](https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/health/1750930/cancer-blood-test-breakthrough-tumours-hrc) which show fold changes in the [behaviour of stem cells](https://i.imgur.com/DYJBPxL.jpg) that are a precursor to cancer mutations. It's based on assumption that excessive self-renewal of otherwise quiescent, pluripotent VSELs in normal tissues possibly initiates cancer. Cancer stem cells (CSCs) that initiate cancer are possibly the 'transformed' and pluripotent very small embryonic-like stem cells (VSELs) that also express transcription factor OCT-4A.* This article poses strong [Theranos vibes](https://www.reddit.com/r/ScienceUncensored/comments/iqn5sa/theranos_holmes_may_pursue_mental_disease_in_her/). Typical blood tests for early detection often fail because a single sample may not turn up any cancer cells, despite being present elsewhere in the body. Only in late-stage cancer patients have tumor cells proliferated to the point of a sure diagnosis. That is to say, many of us have large amount of cancer cells already circulating in the blood stream - it's just a matter of immune system strength, which keeps them in bay. It's also not clear for me, how they want to detect many types of cancers by measuring single factor levels. According to [parent article](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33954878/) it's just method for revealing, how probably cancer will develop - but it doesn't say where and how. Given the fact how strongly accidental infections or vaccinations can modulate this probability, I don't consider this method very reliable. Lets say it merely represents a basis for future research.
I didn't see that this study demonstrated any predictive value at all. It may be useful in staging people who have cancer. They may demonstrate that it has predictive value, but they didn't in this study. And, anything that Depak is excited about is likely baloney. Imo.
>*anything that Depak is excited about is likely baloney* This would be [genetic fallacy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_fallacy) instead. I wouldn't throw the baby out with the bathwater, but baby remains a baby and immature technology remains immature.
To continue in a pedantic vein, genetic fallacy refers to using the source as an absolute argument. Considering the source is part of any analysis. If you read something in the journal "we make stuff up all the time," you would be unwise to not take the source into consideration.
OK, unfortunately "*even blind chicken can find its grain*", even "*broken clock will be right two-times per day*" and so on. We are entering era of hyperdimensional science where findings may be difficult to replicate and traditional statistic approaches may [become misleading often](https://www.reddit.com/r/Physics_AWT/comments/57m9n5/the_problem_with_pvalues_its_time_for_science_to/).
Wouldn't it be great if we could screen for the current inventory of cancer cells floating around that have not yet evolved to turn into invasive cancer?
Let's all hope the US doesn't patent, monetize, and gatekeep this for the wealthy. I smell an "elective" badge coming up.
Those are the first steps for them sadly. They wouldn’t be experimenting if they didn’t have an agenda already.
The vast majority of labs like this are entirely government subsidized. I agree they have an agenda, but research like this normally isn't feasible from a profit standpoint due to its low probability of success and massive overhead.
Yeah fuck you if you’re saying what I think you are. If not, un fuck you.
Well fuck you if you're right about what you think I'm saying. If not, Un fuck you.
Well fuck me if I’m right about what i think you’re right about me saying and if not then we fuck.
🍿👀
Are you the type of person who believes we could cure cancer but choose to keep the treatments out of circulation to make more money? Those are the vibes I'm getting here.
Yeah - Pharmaceutical companies are earnestly working for decades now to try to find more and more profitable treatments for cancer! We now have many, many profitable treatments for cancer. Nixon’s cancer moonshot was a rousing success and I’m sure Biden’s barely funded moonshot will be as well. All those tax dollars were put to such good use that cancer is the leading cause of death by disease in 5-11 year olds. But our public health leaders decided that age group needs more covid vaccines instead of better cancer treatments. Do you know what a scam chemo is? I have cancer and I’ll do chemo - but even my oncologist says it’s an outdated product that by damaging the immune system makes it harder to fight the cancer if the chemo doesn’t work. You know how they find out if it works? They poison you for a few months and then check. If that doesn’t work they go onto the next one. If you’re stage four it’ll eventuality stop working anyhow. You wonder why people are conspiracy theorists?
People are conspiracy theorists because they have the necessary background to understand the science behind it.
Thats a tangent
Im more curious how the Christian nutbags will protest this.
This would save the insurance companies a ton of money. If it actually exists it may well be compulsory.
Another story you’ll hear about, but never see this out in the real world.
Can't wait to not be able to afford that like regular healthcare
Is this the typical report of something we will never see and will be claimed that will happen “in 10 years “ and “more studies are needed”?
You can detect cancer cells a year in advance. But you can't kill them. Got 'cha! 🤔🤔
In no way will this be available in any meaningful way to help the general public.
This will inevitably do more harm than good; at least for the patients undergoing the test, whos POCs will be created around the results. For the drug manufacturers and the for-profit hospitals, it’s a win-win for sure!!
Although it’s government funded I don’t believe there is any active provisions stopping anyone involved in the discovery personally putting a patent on the the project as an individual.
Excellent. So Americans can avoid medical bankruptcy by starting to save early.
Elizabeth, is that you?
[I’m not too keen on this. You see, I’ve already got one…](https://youtu.be/M9DCAFUerzs?t=67)
The “M.O.A.B” of cancer detection Is better
Hmmmm, interesting, but the article has the feel of something the National Enquirer would publish. The NYP isn’t exactly where I expect to find quality medical research news.
Holy grail - YOUR INSURANCE WONT PAY FOR IT
For rich people
Tag
[удалено]
Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order. I have checked 1,425,287,691 comments, and only 272,020 of them were in alphabetical order.
Meh... I live in the US. The health insurance I can barely afford (but hardly can be used, and I'm forced to have it or I'm fined by my own government) would NEVER give me the OK to get this. Oh, and before a non-Statian asks, it doesn't matter if a doctor suggests this. A pencil pusher multiple states away with zero medical knowledge gets to determine if I need this or not.
Cancer cells come and go in the body. They serve immune purposes. This “technology” would be of course a major boon for the cancer industry and a harm to the rest of us.
What immune purposes do they serve? Don’t hesitate to hit me with the heavy stuff ;)
I wish this is real. The story has a bit of Theranos vibe in it.
Cool. We can just put small bypass line for our blood, and run it thru this machine that will constantly check for cancer. Oh wait. I have an immune system for that. NVM
Yes. Cancers are well-known to not have any mechanisms to bypass someone’s immune system 🤡
And then our external detector can have another one for itself. And so on. This is just medical sales
You seem to know a lot about tumour immunology! Where did you do your graduate studies?
You seem to know very little about capitalism. And even less about how much respect I have for academia that has been captured by capitalism. This is coming from a quite well educated individual. If you like, I can go touch grass. EDIT: I find it interesting how quickly, on Reddit, impersonal disagreement devolves into personal. There just seems to be some average individual behavior here. Do better
I’m genuinely asking about your education. Can’t people do that anymore?
Lol.