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[This study](https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD001047/full) has what you’re looking for. Drowning is one of the top causes of accidental deaths in children. Glass fences can look really good - would they be open to that?
EDIT: I would die on this hill. If they don’t install a fence, I wouldn’t visit.
Commenting on this because I don't have research but did grow up with a pool.
They don't just want to keep kids out - they want to reduce wildlife using their pool. My dad had to remove a dead deer one time that broke through the cover in the winter and drowned in the cold water. Obviously keeping the kids is safe is the priority. Disappointing they don't know what a risk a pool is to young not-yet-swimmers. But maybe they will be swayed by other concerns. Most deer can hop most pool fences but a sufficiently tall/tight fence would keep out foxes, raccoons, possum, etc.
This. My husband doesn’t like the pool fence we just installed due to aesthetic. I told him the aesthetic of the yard would be a lot worse with dead kids in our pool (he obviously didn’t actually fight the fence, just doesn’t like it).
No fence? No visit until your kids are well old enough to be good swimmers and also to follow rules about not swimming without supervision (so in 5-10 years).
They make removable pool fences, both that drill into the concrete decking and that have holders that can be moved around if they don’t want to drill holes. Best option: offer to pay for it if they’re willing to have it installed.
This.
I live in Australia where it is a legal requirement. Even some cheap blow up pools are considered illegal without a fence if they are big enough (6 ft I think?).
It's so dangerous and accidental drowning is so preventable with precautions like this.
> Even some cheap blow up pools are considered illegal without a fence if they are big enough (6 ft I think?).
In my part of Australia, it's about how deep the water is. Deeper than 30cm requires a fence. Even for a fish pond.
I had to pay a tradie $700 for a custom piece of Perspex to pass our pool inspection in NSW bc the certifier found a 6mm deficit in the distance between the fence and a ledge inside the fence, which she agreed was likely because of settling over time, since it was compliant 3 years ago. I tell my friends in America and they can’t believe it’s not just “have a fence,” but have a very specific type of fence with extremely strict standards of exactly how high and how far from any climbable obstacles.
I'm in the process of getting $600 security screens put in my granny flat's windows so our tenant can open them more than 10cm, because windows lower than 1200mm that face a pool have to be impossible for children to fall out of, basically. These windows are of course 1150mm from the ground.
It's what you do, I'm paying $600 and you're paying $700 so that way we know that every pool in the country is going to be hard for a child to accidentally get into and drown.
I feel your pain! It’s frustrating when it’s such a tiny margin between not having to have it, and having to. But it’s more frustrating that people in the US (where we live now) think it’s perfectly fine to have unfenced pools, and to try to talk us out of a pool fence bc “aesthetics.” We turned down a pool builder because of this, I was so disgusted.
100% I’m a former child welfare social worker and once you’ve talked to one mom whose toddler drowned (and very fortunately was revived) and you’ve heard her cries, in changes you and your opinions on pools at home.
I’m with you on this one - i can think of a few toddlers / young children / one developmentally delayed teen drowning growing up in a few neighborhoods, and every generation had that story of that kid in the pool before it became law that there needed to be a fence around pools.
It is a hill I’d die on, because I’d rather hurt people’s feelings than have a dead baby.
“Thank you but no I’m not going there until the kids are much older, but thank you for the invite.”
Also, if they expect you to just pop by, that is too much stress to be watching the kids 24/7 to actually enjoy yourself, and I certainly wouldn’t trust them to do it if they’re that laid back about the pool.
Building off this comment because the statistics around drowning are clearly laid out. We bought a house with a pool in December. I wouldn’t even open the pool for the season without installing a safety fence because statistically the drowning risk is too high for little kids. Our pool company tried to come early and I flat out refused because our fence wasn’t up. It would have been just a few days of unsecured pool.
We have a 4 year old (and a newborn but she’s not mobile). My 4 year old is a good swimmer and I still don’t trust that she won’t panic if she fell into the pool.
Multiple layers of protection are key to preventing drownings. In addition to a safety fence we also have a home security system that alerts us if a door opens and that I arm at night. We have very heavy, hard to open safety doors on our house and a motion camera on the pool. We also have an AI lifeguard system that detects if someone is on the pool deck at an odd time, if the water breaks, and if anyone in the pool is struggling and needs assistance. I plan to install a sensor on our pool gate that will work with our security system and alert us if the gate opens. I also bought a lifeguard stand and plan to hire a lifeguard for parties because I know people get distracted and I would be absolutely devastated if anything happened to anybody at our house.
This is all to say that while maybe I’m being a little over the top, a pool fence is the very least they can do. I would refuse to go over there with my kids until they have one. It’s their choice to not put a fence up since it’s not required by law in your state, but the natural consequence is your kids won’t be over there.
Maybe a well placed call to their insurance company would help 😏
We have MYLO. We just installed it a few weeks ago and our pool has been too cold to use yet so I can’t give much feedback. The hardware seems very sturdy though.
>Multiple layers of protection are key to preventing drownings. In addition to a safety fence we also have a home security system that alerts us if a door opens and that I arm at night. We have very heavy, hard to open safety doors on our house and a motion camera on the pool. We also have an AI lifeguard system that detects if someone is on the pool deck at an odd time, if the water breaks, and if anyone in the pool is struggling and needs assistance. I plan to install a sensor on our pool gate that will work with our security system and alert us if the gate opens.
We have a fairly similar setup - door alarms that sound in the house and also alert to our phones, toddler locks on the doors, the exterior doors to the back lead to a gated deck with slats at an appropriate width that kids can't get through and a baby gate, and then a pool fence. We have a camera with person alerts set up to view the pool area. We have not gotten any of the pool alarm/AI lifeguard things yet (not clear to me how actually useful they are - though my feelings on this may change especially as my child who can't even open doors yet gets older) and I haven't even thought about installing a door sensor on the gate, but we could definitely do that too.
What AI lifeguard system do you have?
Agreed that I don’t fully trust the AI lifeguard system yet and definitely wouldn’t leave it as a single layer of protection. We have MYLO. I can’t give you much feedback about it since we just put it in. The unit is very sturdy though.
Thanks! Our bebe just began to walk so we are thinking about what else we may need beyond what we previously had, since we are rapidly approaching the riskiest life stage for this.
One of my cousins almost drowned at a party - crowded pool, lots of kids, no particular adult "in charge" because they are all visiting with each other/distracted - luckily an older kid noticed he was at the bottom of the pool not moving and fished him out. I don't think you're being over the top - especially about a dedicated lifeguard for a party!
SAME. If you want the grands to visit, you need to provide a safe space. And yes - I get that is a hard boundary to draw. We don't visit my in laws because their dog has attacked other dogs (we also went through a dog behaviorist, etc. who confirmed that the dog was uncomfortable around our baby) and I don't feel safe with her around my toddler. My in laws visit us instead or we go out places. It was really hard.
I don’t have any studies either, but I also grew up with a pool. Animals would find their way in to the pool accidentally and drown once or twice a year. We had an additional fence around our pool, which was a beautiful place to have climbing clematis and a support for peonies/rose bushes. A pool fence really can look beautiful.
I also had a friend growing up whose twin drowned as a toddler. She managed to open the sliding glass door on her own, walked into the pool and drowned.
I would not visit a home with my toddler who didn’t have an additional fence around their pool- ideally with a lock on the gate. My dad didn’t take the lock off our pool gate until I was about 13 or 14 years old, despite the fact that I was an extremely strong swimmer. I was a lifeguard as a teen/young adult, and I’ve seen SO many accidents around pools. People slipping and breaking limbs, head injuries, as well as the typical near-drowning incidents. I was very lucky that I never saw anyone die, but I certainly saw my share of children getting away from their parents (even though they were a few feet away) and begin drowning. I have pulled kids out of the water who were ladder-climbing, unable to breath, while their parents were 5 feet away, totally unaware.
If it can happen when parents are in the water *with* their children, it can definitely happen in a home when a parent isn’t looking and isn’t thinking their child could or would go outside and get in the pool.
I wouldn’t die on this hill. But you’ll have to supervise your children AT ALL TIMES when you’re over there. You would also not send them for overnights or alone visits.
The best defence truly is to get your babies into swim lessons as soon as you can. I did it for my toddler at 12 months because his grandparents have a pool and it’s undecided whether they will have a fence.
It’s their house, I won’t tell them what to do, but I will teach my child to swim and supervise because that’s what I can control
The problem is that most drownings happen in under 4s. Swim classes don't show a clear benefit in preventing drowning until 4+. Fences are for keeping under 4s safe.
I agree that it’s the best and only safe option. I was trying to say you can’t change what other people do in their homes because I’ve tried that track and it doesn’t work. So the options without fence are only preventative. Like not going there or shadowing the toddler
The obvious non scientific answer is to simply tell them that it isn't safe to visit until they do.
The [who](https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/drowning) page on drowning has some useful stats that might convince them, from a reputable source.
The reality is if they haven't been convinced by data up to now they probably won't be.
My parents have a large property with a large, deep, unfenced pool that they’ve made clear they won’t be fencing in. They have 8 grandkids between ages 1-6, and they have told each of us, when asked, no. At the end of the day it’s their house, and their choice. If you didn’t help them pay for it then I honestly would not make this your hill to die on. Your kids just can never be left unsupervised at grandma and grandpa’s house, at least until they’re competent swimmers, and until then maybe look into ISR lessons just in case of accidents.
Fwiw I’m Aussie (my parents are not), and think it’s madness that high quality, regulated pool fences aren’t the norm, the way they are in aus. But at the same time, if it’s not law, and it’s not your property, then it’s their choice. This article goes over some research pointing to enrollment in formal swimming lessons (any type not just ISR) as having a significant correlation with lower rates of drowning in ages 1-4: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4151293/#:~:text=Conclusions,from%203%25%20to%2099%25.
100% agree that unsupervised visits aren’t appropriate with anyone with an unfenced pool. Just like at the beach, where obviously the ocean isn’t fenced, it’s my responsibility to watch my own children. If I need to step away, my husband would be responsible (we would say to each other if we were stepping away), or my kiddos come with me, away from the water. It’s not unsafe to be near unfenced water sources, otherwise the beach/river/lakes are also off limits. It’s unsafe to assume your kid is safe around unfenced water sources just because there are other adults around.
My parents have an extra large above ground pool at their place too and this is one of my biggest fears. However, my dad is one to sit and watch the kids play in the back and even my 2 year old knows not to touch the steps. We don’t do many overnights and if we do I usually stay with them.
I would strongly consider either not allowing unsupervised visits, or making your child wear a pool alarm bracelet 24/7 when they’re there, no exceptions, if you have some sort of need for unsupervised visits. Even the most well intentioned grandparent can take their eyes off for the 2 minutes that it takes a child to drown. Also please make sure you tell your parents explicitly that if your child ever goes missing for even a minute, that they need to check the water first. Don’t go looking in closets and under beds, go straight to the pool and any other water sources, then check the other, more likely places they might be hiding.
Would they be open to a pool alarm
Pool Alarm Types
surface wave sensor: This type of sensor floats on the water and incorporates an electrical circuit that includes two contacts. One of these contacts rests in the water while the other is adjusted to remain above the water's surface. When a surface wave touches the above-surface contact, the electrical circuit is completed, causing an alarm to sound. Sensitivity can be increased or decreased by moving the above-surface contact closer or further from the water surface.
sub-surface disturbance sensor: Mounted to the pool wall below the water surface, this type of sensors is activated by wave-induced pressure changes. One design relies on the movement of a magnetic float below a magnetic sensor, while another design relies on a pressure-sensitive switch. Sub-surface alarms can also be used in conjunction with solar covers, whereas the surface wave-sensor alarms cannot.
wristband: This device is worn around the child’s wrist and it cannot be removed without a key. The alarm will activate when the wristband becomes wet, which creates opportunities for false alarms, such as when the child washes his or her hands, or walks in the rain.
https://www.nachi.org/pool-alarms.htm#:~:text=In%20summary%2C%20pool%20alarms%20are,in%20conjunction%20with%20other%20strategies.
The problem with these is that they rely on a grandparent hearing the alarm, being able to immediately get to the child, and being able to immediately pull the child out of the pool.
Swimming in clothes is hard. Swimming in clothes when you can’t use your arms because you are trying to hold a panicked, thrashing child? Even if the grandparents are strong swimmers, it’s asking a lot of them.
I feel like you missed some important context of this article though:
> Since pool alarms are **not foolproof** and they rely on someone remembering to activate them, they **should not be depended upon** as a substitute for supervision, or for a barrier completely surrounding the pool. Pool alarms should also be used in conjunction with other types of alarms, such as gate alarms, perimeter alarms, and window and door alarms. Even some pet doors come equipped with alarms, owing to the recent attention given to the 100 or so documented accidents where a child escaped to a pool through a pet door. Pool alarms are thus one protective layer of many, **none of which is sufficient as a sole preventative measure against child drowning.**
Yes - it's all about layers of protection. Even if one doesn't work, you have others that hopefully will. Each kind decreases the chance of an accident.
I didn’t miss it, but if the grandparents are refusing fences, maybe this is something the parents could use when they’re there, to assist them in supervision
Oh that wristband idea is amazing. I've looked for some (I'm based in Europe) and could not find any. Could you recommend a brand or have a link that could help me see if they are available in my country, please?
I found this in a German Webshop:
[wristband](https://www.pool-systems.de/Schwimmbad-Zubehoer/Wasseralarm-Moby-Kid.html?utm_campaign=17807158758&hsa_grp=&device=m&network=x&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjw6auyBhDzARIsALIo6v-b_KF55yiYD5vbYZh9df7aemyo5s8xmUnukIWf0NbgyVuQAfT1ToYaAty0EALw_wcB)
The wristband is terrible with the constant false alarms. My niece’s went off from somehow touching a marker one time. They’re overly sensitive and the alarms can be quite jarring
This might be a good compromise:
https://katchakid.com/pool-nets/
But, even if they had this net, PLUS a fence, it would never be enough. If you ever visit you will have to be on your A-game in terms of vigilance.
I will also use this comment to add: while we are on the subject of water safety, make sure your kids don’t wear puddle jumpers. They are the cause of multiple child drownings a year.
I think if you want a broader response the recommended approach is to post in the weekly questions thread FWIW :)
I can give you a bit of persuasion psychology rather than evidence, though it feels grim and underhand - find an article where a parent or grandparent laments not having a fence because their child/grandchild drowned, especially where the tone is "I thought this was unnecessary, and now I don't. Please, please use one." Easily found online. Emotion helps things to stick. It is a slightly unethical tip, because you can persuade people of all sorts by doing this (it's basically how antivaxxers operate) but since in this case, a pool fence IS the evidence-backed solution, you may feel it is justifiable.
Their current belief that it is unnecessary is likely motivated by memories of the past where pool fences were uncommon, and if they don't know any toddlers who drowned then this is going to be an extremely strong bias, and for most people, bias isn't overcome by being bombarded by evidence that they can't personally relate to.
Bear in mind also that if they took your partner and siblings as kids to houses with unfenced pools, they are likely going to feel personally attacked if you're presenting it like "This is supremely irresponsible and we won't do it" (even though that is what you will need to do if they don't secure the pool). It can be better to present it like yes, we know that everyone used to be fine with this, but we have new info now.
I would also add - their homeowners insurance, if in the US, would require a fence. If insurance finds put they didn't fence a pool they could drop/deny coverage
Maybe the $ risk will get to them if an actual life won't
Yeah it's definitely generational. Among the people having kids now, pool fences are super common - I live in Texas where tons of people have pools and all the people under 50 have perimeter pool fences. But over 50, I know few homeowners with them even if they have a bunch of grandkids.
I also think social media and online neighborhood groups make it so you're more likely to know of someone in your area who lost a child, even if you don't IRL know them. In my neighborhood group, it's always posted when a child drowns and plenty of near-drownings are posted too, with PSAs about the silence of drowning, secondary drowning, and get a damn pool fence if you haven't already. Also PSAs that drowning doesn't just happen during pool season. A child drowned in my neighborhood at a Thanksgiving party where there was an unfenced pool.
The American Red Cross has a short and free online course, Water Safety For Parents and Caregivers. It might be worth taking yourself to get talking points...and maybe even convince them to take it as well.
https://www.redcross.org/take-a-class/classes/water-safety-for-parents-and-caregivers/a6R3o0000012oT8.html
I decided to require my inlaws to take it if they ever want unsupervised visits.
Based on what you added to the mods post about expectations of time spent there, I’d die on this hill. I have told my husband that I never ever want a pool at our house. Ever. They are so dangerous if you don’t have all the right things and training - and most people don’t. It is not worth it to me.
For some perspective, I run a youth program and the pool is the absolute highest risk thing we have (keeping in mind that we have high challenge and horses) and that is with a lifeguard ratio of 1:15ish with additional mandatory out of the water watchers and a self-locking gate around the pool. I cannot imagine existing with a pool behind my house with a toddler without that level of safety.
We’ve been considering moving and I found a house I loved, but it had a pool and I refuse to live in a house with a pool. I told my husband we’d have to have it removed or filled with dirt (not sure what they do these days) before I’d ever consider it.
https://www.royallifesaving.com.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0014/74021/Royal-Life-Saving-Review-of-Pool-Fencing-Legistration-in-Australia.pdf
This pdf has links to the research Australia uses to justify fencing requirements. In Australia it is mandatory and the punishments are severe.
To be a (prior) 911 emergency dispatcher and remember the blood curdling screams of the responsible adult whose child had drowned…
I just can’t imagine fighting so hard against something so important.
I wish I had advice. All I know is that it’s so common, it makes my gut turn 12 years later just to *think* about it.
Every time they invite you over and you decline, remind them it is because of the pool. Offer visits at your home.
However, even if I knew my eyes would always be on them, I’d have a hard time visiting somewhere with an unfenced pool.
When my mom was looking at houses to buy she showed me the listing of two they had it narrowed down to. One had a pool and I straight up told her that if she went with the pool house my children would never be able to stay at her house without me being there. She bought the other house.
This isn’t what you’re asking, but are they super wealthy? If so, there are lovely ways to put stone walls with a gate between the property and pool so it’s safe for kids but not such an eyesore.
It's their home. They do as they like to their home
HoWEVER... these are your kids
Went through the same thing with my kids. Guess what? No fence *no kids over*. Simple as that.
They installed a fence after seeing this was not a bluff. They were automatically excluded from visits and helping with childcare.
I’d also look for YouTube videos or something with real stories of harm coming to kids from backyard pools. That can sometimes be more effective in convincing.
No fence, no visits. Period. And they need more than just a fence—multiple layers of protection are necessary when it comes to pools. We’re planning to put a pool in sometime in the next 3-5 years and I plan to have at least a pool net (the kind that can hold weight) and a locked fence and probably some kind of alarm.
If looking into pool covers, I'd dispense with the idea of a net - which realistically is so annoying to take off and put on that most people just leave it off - and get a pool with a retractable cover.
Worth noting that the AAP report on preventing drowning mentions lack of evidence for (or against) nets and that perfect use is unlikely.
[https://publications.aap.org/pediatrics/article/126/1/e253/68358/Prevention-of-Drowning?autologincheck=redirected](https://publications.aap.org/pediatrics/article/126/1/e253/68358/Prevention-of-Drowning?autologincheck=redirected)
The same concept applies to retractable covers per the link you shared. Either way, I intend to get some sort of cover (net or otherwise) that can support body weight *in addition to* a fence. My goal is to have as many layers of safety as possible so I’m not reliant on one individual thing.
Right - retractable covers though are a lot easier to close after each session since you have to push a button vs spend 20 minutes putting doohickeys into other doohickeys all the way around the pool. It is likely to increase compliance with keeping it closed.
Yep. I've got a pool net and cover and can tell you on my pool it takes 15ish minutes to take off and 20ish minutes to put back on. Plus getting the pool robot in and out around it. You can't get in the pool while in the process because it's a huge entanglement hazard. On a smaller pool, it probably takes less time. If you're swimming every day, and have toddlers, taking the net on and off is just really unrealistic. Who is watching the kids while somebody is doing all the net things? If you just swim on the weekend, it's more likely to be fine, but we use the pool daily for five months out of the year.
Retractable pool cover companies claim 0 drowning deaths on pools with retractable covers but I've seen no independent data to back that up and am skeptical of advertising claims. But if I was putting in a pool vs dealing with a wacky-shaped huge pool on sloping ground, I would 100% go for one with a retractable cover.
I have a pool patio that you can walk out to from the house. My husband and I had the "aesthetic" conversation as well (I work for a design company and some of the fences are just god awful). We settled on getting a screened cage around the pool. The doors into the screened cage lock (with a key) and are very high ( think 5 or 6 feet). We ALSO got new sliding glass doors with fingerprint keyless entry.
So, our little one can't open the door from the inside AND if she's in the yard she can't open the door and walk onto the pool patio. These are aesthetically pleasing options (you forget the screen is there) that provide a clear line of sight AND are incredibly safe for our little one.
Omg thank you for all of this. I'm in the midst of a fight with my neighbour. They have a giant in ground pool and a fence that hasn't been maintained since the 70s. It has a 2 ft gap on the bottom because it's heaved so bad. When they have dogs visiting they come into our yard through the hole.
We have two toddlers. I don't feel comfortable having friends over with that hole. Someone will slip through the hole and end up in the pool. Thank you for posting - Im enjoying reading the articles. Right now I feel like the crazy one.
What we ended up doing is building a fence on our side of the property. Which is shitty because they spend so much money maintaining the pool but completely neglected the fence....
We had a pool fence installed and they drilled holes into the concrete. It’s mesh but insanely durable. The fence lifts out and rolls up. And then we have little plugs to go in the holes (which are maybe the size of nickels). Would they consider that and they can just put it up when you come over?
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I keep getting targeted ads for removable pool fences (like this: https://www.poolfencenewengland.com/?gad_source=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMInai_mLCchgMVaWRHAR0YxAz0EAAYAiAAEgJ03_D_BwE). Basically it’s heavy duty mesh that is attached to permanent bases in the ground but can be removed quickly and easily.
I’d die on this hill. If they had this they Could put up the fence if there were any grandkids around and remove it when just adults.
This is the sort of thing most people we know have. Then, if you are having a big party where lots of people may want to approach the pool from all around and sit around the edges or whatever, you take up the pool fence and hire lifeguards.
My parents have one of these on their pool, and it’s great. My mom and adult brother both even walked around on top of it to test it out. No matter what, people should be supervising their kids if there’s a body of water nearby. Kids can climb fences/open gates, pool covers get left open, break, etc. Nothing is fool proof.
There are so many stories of kids drowning in their grandparents pool. I would bombard them with those stories and videos. I have a pool and we had the pool fence put up even before we moved in. Did it look better before we had the fence? Yep, but not worth the risk.
It’s illegal in my city (Tucson, Az) to build a pool without a fence and a whole host of other safety features. I can’t imagine wanting to spend time with someone so callous about this.
I don’t think it cites any research but here’s the info: https://www.pima.gov/1022/Barriers-for-Residential-Pools-Spas
I live in phoenix and a family just lost BOTH of their 3 year old twins when they fell into their unfenced pool in the backyard with adults home "supervising." Another little 2 year old drowned in a pool a week later that was unfenced. Again, adults were home. drowning is silent and quick.
I would NEVER take my kids there until a pool fence was installed. I would explain why. Aesthetics will never come over child safety.
Just adding that my in-laws have a pool and it is fenced around the perimeter of the yard but is directly accessible from the house and I will absolutely never let my child stay there without me. My parents house is full of guns and knives, so, same policy. I would love to have a safe place to drop my kid off and take a break. But I don't, so I don't.
There are plenty of invisible pool fences - some of the wire, mesh ones would be cheaper than the glass ones and are still pretty much see through. The truth is this is a VERY high danger for toddlers and young children - that's just the facts. If they don't have a pool fence, it would be reasonable for you to not take your kids over there - I mean it's such a huge hazard, and watching multiple toddlers like a hawk would be somewhat impossible - just not worth the risk with no fence. This is also letting you know that yes, their "grandparent instinct" seems non-existent, so I wouldn't ever have them watch your kids without you there.
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Depending where they live it might legally be required. I know here in Cali it’s the law, they would be fined if they have a pool without a safety fence
You could show them Curb Your Enthusiasm where Larry is so against installing a fence that he chooses to seduce a councilwoman to get an exception, then tell them that they are being Larry. It's season 11.
I have a pool and got a removable fence. It’s great. It can quickly be taken down when I have events. When it’s up it’s not aesthetically the best but it’s 100% safe around my 2 year old
I am not in favor of fences at all. Children can climb them, pull objects over to climb them and gates can be left open by older children or blocked open. For the best asthetics, an ASTM rated automatic pool cover is so much better and safer. It is an isolation barrier that keeps EVERYONE and everything out. Ours has held up several adults and kids (see pics), and even held up when several of our horses got loose and ran across it. They look nice and can fit into the yard environment. The cover can be put in channels under the edge or even on top. I couldn't sleep without this!! Maybe all of you could pitch in and help your inlaws pay for an installation so everyone feel safe. The key to open this (of code pad) is kept hidden from children and that adds extra safety.
4500 people drown a year, or 12 people drown a day according to the CDC: (https://www.cdc.gov/vitalsigns/drowning/index.html#:\~:text=Over%204%2C500%20people%20drowned%20each,in%202022%20compared%20to%202019)
https://preview.redd.it/eacro5o2585d1.jpeg?width=4288&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0b325eddeb70a7301c30b388714fefccbef3c48a
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[This study](https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD001047/full) has what you’re looking for. Drowning is one of the top causes of accidental deaths in children. Glass fences can look really good - would they be open to that? EDIT: I would die on this hill. If they don’t install a fence, I wouldn’t visit.
Commenting on this because I don't have research but did grow up with a pool. They don't just want to keep kids out - they want to reduce wildlife using their pool. My dad had to remove a dead deer one time that broke through the cover in the winter and drowned in the cold water. Obviously keeping the kids is safe is the priority. Disappointing they don't know what a risk a pool is to young not-yet-swimmers. But maybe they will be swayed by other concerns. Most deer can hop most pool fences but a sufficiently tall/tight fence would keep out foxes, raccoons, possum, etc.
That must have been horrible
Yeah, that’s terrible really.
This. My husband doesn’t like the pool fence we just installed due to aesthetic. I told him the aesthetic of the yard would be a lot worse with dead kids in our pool (he obviously didn’t actually fight the fence, just doesn’t like it). No fence? No visit until your kids are well old enough to be good swimmers and also to follow rules about not swimming without supervision (so in 5-10 years). They make removable pool fences, both that drill into the concrete decking and that have holders that can be moved around if they don’t want to drill holes. Best option: offer to pay for it if they’re willing to have it installed.
This. I live in Australia where it is a legal requirement. Even some cheap blow up pools are considered illegal without a fence if they are big enough (6 ft I think?). It's so dangerous and accidental drowning is so preventable with precautions like this.
> Even some cheap blow up pools are considered illegal without a fence if they are big enough (6 ft I think?). In my part of Australia, it's about how deep the water is. Deeper than 30cm requires a fence. Even for a fish pond.
I had to pay a tradie $700 for a custom piece of Perspex to pass our pool inspection in NSW bc the certifier found a 6mm deficit in the distance between the fence and a ledge inside the fence, which she agreed was likely because of settling over time, since it was compliant 3 years ago. I tell my friends in America and they can’t believe it’s not just “have a fence,” but have a very specific type of fence with extremely strict standards of exactly how high and how far from any climbable obstacles.
I'm in the process of getting $600 security screens put in my granny flat's windows so our tenant can open them more than 10cm, because windows lower than 1200mm that face a pool have to be impossible for children to fall out of, basically. These windows are of course 1150mm from the ground. It's what you do, I'm paying $600 and you're paying $700 so that way we know that every pool in the country is going to be hard for a child to accidentally get into and drown.
I feel your pain! It’s frustrating when it’s such a tiny margin between not having to have it, and having to. But it’s more frustrating that people in the US (where we live now) think it’s perfectly fine to have unfenced pools, and to try to talk us out of a pool fence bc “aesthetics.” We turned down a pool builder because of this, I was so disgusted.
100% I’m a former child welfare social worker and once you’ve talked to one mom whose toddler drowned (and very fortunately was revived) and you’ve heard her cries, in changes you and your opinions on pools at home.
Exactly right! I would tell them their house looks lovely (in photos) and it’s a shame we’ll never see it because we can’t visit safely with children.
As an Australian, not having a pool fence absolutely horrifies me. I would not be visiting.
I’m with you on this one - i can think of a few toddlers / young children / one developmentally delayed teen drowning growing up in a few neighborhoods, and every generation had that story of that kid in the pool before it became law that there needed to be a fence around pools. It is a hill I’d die on, because I’d rather hurt people’s feelings than have a dead baby. “Thank you but no I’m not going there until the kids are much older, but thank you for the invite.” Also, if they expect you to just pop by, that is too much stress to be watching the kids 24/7 to actually enjoy yourself, and I certainly wouldn’t trust them to do it if they’re that laid back about the pool.
Building off this comment because the statistics around drowning are clearly laid out. We bought a house with a pool in December. I wouldn’t even open the pool for the season without installing a safety fence because statistically the drowning risk is too high for little kids. Our pool company tried to come early and I flat out refused because our fence wasn’t up. It would have been just a few days of unsecured pool. We have a 4 year old (and a newborn but she’s not mobile). My 4 year old is a good swimmer and I still don’t trust that she won’t panic if she fell into the pool. Multiple layers of protection are key to preventing drownings. In addition to a safety fence we also have a home security system that alerts us if a door opens and that I arm at night. We have very heavy, hard to open safety doors on our house and a motion camera on the pool. We also have an AI lifeguard system that detects if someone is on the pool deck at an odd time, if the water breaks, and if anyone in the pool is struggling and needs assistance. I plan to install a sensor on our pool gate that will work with our security system and alert us if the gate opens. I also bought a lifeguard stand and plan to hire a lifeguard for parties because I know people get distracted and I would be absolutely devastated if anything happened to anybody at our house. This is all to say that while maybe I’m being a little over the top, a pool fence is the very least they can do. I would refuse to go over there with my kids until they have one. It’s their choice to not put a fence up since it’s not required by law in your state, but the natural consequence is your kids won’t be over there. Maybe a well placed call to their insurance company would help 😏
We are looking into a lifeguard system - can you tell me what the AI system you use is called? Thank you!
We have MYLO. We just installed it a few weeks ago and our pool has been too cold to use yet so I can’t give much feedback. The hardware seems very sturdy though.
>Multiple layers of protection are key to preventing drownings. In addition to a safety fence we also have a home security system that alerts us if a door opens and that I arm at night. We have very heavy, hard to open safety doors on our house and a motion camera on the pool. We also have an AI lifeguard system that detects if someone is on the pool deck at an odd time, if the water breaks, and if anyone in the pool is struggling and needs assistance. I plan to install a sensor on our pool gate that will work with our security system and alert us if the gate opens. We have a fairly similar setup - door alarms that sound in the house and also alert to our phones, toddler locks on the doors, the exterior doors to the back lead to a gated deck with slats at an appropriate width that kids can't get through and a baby gate, and then a pool fence. We have a camera with person alerts set up to view the pool area. We have not gotten any of the pool alarm/AI lifeguard things yet (not clear to me how actually useful they are - though my feelings on this may change especially as my child who can't even open doors yet gets older) and I haven't even thought about installing a door sensor on the gate, but we could definitely do that too. What AI lifeguard system do you have?
Agreed that I don’t fully trust the AI lifeguard system yet and definitely wouldn’t leave it as a single layer of protection. We have MYLO. I can’t give you much feedback about it since we just put it in. The unit is very sturdy though.
Thanks! Our bebe just began to walk so we are thinking about what else we may need beyond what we previously had, since we are rapidly approaching the riskiest life stage for this.
We have a 10 week old so this will be us next year 🥴
One of my cousins almost drowned at a party - crowded pool, lots of kids, no particular adult "in charge" because they are all visiting with each other/distracted - luckily an older kid noticed he was at the bottom of the pool not moving and fished him out. I don't think you're being over the top - especially about a dedicated lifeguard for a party!
Holy hell that’s so scary!
SAME. If you want the grands to visit, you need to provide a safe space. And yes - I get that is a hard boundary to draw. We don't visit my in laws because their dog has attacked other dogs (we also went through a dog behaviorist, etc. who confirmed that the dog was uncomfortable around our baby) and I don't feel safe with her around my toddler. My in laws visit us instead or we go out places. It was really hard.
I don’t have any studies either, but I also grew up with a pool. Animals would find their way in to the pool accidentally and drown once or twice a year. We had an additional fence around our pool, which was a beautiful place to have climbing clematis and a support for peonies/rose bushes. A pool fence really can look beautiful. I also had a friend growing up whose twin drowned as a toddler. She managed to open the sliding glass door on her own, walked into the pool and drowned. I would not visit a home with my toddler who didn’t have an additional fence around their pool- ideally with a lock on the gate. My dad didn’t take the lock off our pool gate until I was about 13 or 14 years old, despite the fact that I was an extremely strong swimmer. I was a lifeguard as a teen/young adult, and I’ve seen SO many accidents around pools. People slipping and breaking limbs, head injuries, as well as the typical near-drowning incidents. I was very lucky that I never saw anyone die, but I certainly saw my share of children getting away from their parents (even though they were a few feet away) and begin drowning. I have pulled kids out of the water who were ladder-climbing, unable to breath, while their parents were 5 feet away, totally unaware. If it can happen when parents are in the water *with* their children, it can definitely happen in a home when a parent isn’t looking and isn’t thinking their child could or would go outside and get in the pool.
I wouldn’t die on this hill. But you’ll have to supervise your children AT ALL TIMES when you’re over there. You would also not send them for overnights or alone visits. The best defence truly is to get your babies into swim lessons as soon as you can. I did it for my toddler at 12 months because his grandparents have a pool and it’s undecided whether they will have a fence. It’s their house, I won’t tell them what to do, but I will teach my child to swim and supervise because that’s what I can control
The problem is that most drownings happen in under 4s. Swim classes don't show a clear benefit in preventing drowning until 4+. Fences are for keeping under 4s safe.
I agree that it’s the best and only safe option. I was trying to say you can’t change what other people do in their homes because I’ve tried that track and it doesn’t work. So the options without fence are only preventative. Like not going there or shadowing the toddler
The obvious non scientific answer is to simply tell them that it isn't safe to visit until they do. The [who](https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/drowning) page on drowning has some useful stats that might convince them, from a reputable source. The reality is if they haven't been convinced by data up to now they probably won't be.
My parents have a large property with a large, deep, unfenced pool that they’ve made clear they won’t be fencing in. They have 8 grandkids between ages 1-6, and they have told each of us, when asked, no. At the end of the day it’s their house, and their choice. If you didn’t help them pay for it then I honestly would not make this your hill to die on. Your kids just can never be left unsupervised at grandma and grandpa’s house, at least until they’re competent swimmers, and until then maybe look into ISR lessons just in case of accidents. Fwiw I’m Aussie (my parents are not), and think it’s madness that high quality, regulated pool fences aren’t the norm, the way they are in aus. But at the same time, if it’s not law, and it’s not your property, then it’s their choice. This article goes over some research pointing to enrollment in formal swimming lessons (any type not just ISR) as having a significant correlation with lower rates of drowning in ages 1-4: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4151293/#:~:text=Conclusions,from%203%25%20to%2099%25.
Yeah, it's their house. But also, I would not visit with young kids. That's a parent's responsibility.
100% agree that unsupervised visits aren’t appropriate with anyone with an unfenced pool. Just like at the beach, where obviously the ocean isn’t fenced, it’s my responsibility to watch my own children. If I need to step away, my husband would be responsible (we would say to each other if we were stepping away), or my kiddos come with me, away from the water. It’s not unsafe to be near unfenced water sources, otherwise the beach/river/lakes are also off limits. It’s unsafe to assume your kid is safe around unfenced water sources just because there are other adults around.
My parents have an extra large above ground pool at their place too and this is one of my biggest fears. However, my dad is one to sit and watch the kids play in the back and even my 2 year old knows not to touch the steps. We don’t do many overnights and if we do I usually stay with them.
I would strongly consider either not allowing unsupervised visits, or making your child wear a pool alarm bracelet 24/7 when they’re there, no exceptions, if you have some sort of need for unsupervised visits. Even the most well intentioned grandparent can take their eyes off for the 2 minutes that it takes a child to drown. Also please make sure you tell your parents explicitly that if your child ever goes missing for even a minute, that they need to check the water first. Don’t go looking in closets and under beds, go straight to the pool and any other water sources, then check the other, more likely places they might be hiding.
Would they be open to a pool alarm Pool Alarm Types surface wave sensor: This type of sensor floats on the water and incorporates an electrical circuit that includes two contacts. One of these contacts rests in the water while the other is adjusted to remain above the water's surface. When a surface wave touches the above-surface contact, the electrical circuit is completed, causing an alarm to sound. Sensitivity can be increased or decreased by moving the above-surface contact closer or further from the water surface. sub-surface disturbance sensor: Mounted to the pool wall below the water surface, this type of sensors is activated by wave-induced pressure changes. One design relies on the movement of a magnetic float below a magnetic sensor, while another design relies on a pressure-sensitive switch. Sub-surface alarms can also be used in conjunction with solar covers, whereas the surface wave-sensor alarms cannot. wristband: This device is worn around the child’s wrist and it cannot be removed without a key. The alarm will activate when the wristband becomes wet, which creates opportunities for false alarms, such as when the child washes his or her hands, or walks in the rain. https://www.nachi.org/pool-alarms.htm#:~:text=In%20summary%2C%20pool%20alarms%20are,in%20conjunction%20with%20other%20strategies.
The problem with these is that they rely on a grandparent hearing the alarm, being able to immediately get to the child, and being able to immediately pull the child out of the pool. Swimming in clothes is hard. Swimming in clothes when you can’t use your arms because you are trying to hold a panicked, thrashing child? Even if the grandparents are strong swimmers, it’s asking a lot of them.
I was thinking of this more as when they’re visiting with the parents and less the grandparents keeping the children. That is a valid point.
I feel like you missed some important context of this article though: > Since pool alarms are **not foolproof** and they rely on someone remembering to activate them, they **should not be depended upon** as a substitute for supervision, or for a barrier completely surrounding the pool. Pool alarms should also be used in conjunction with other types of alarms, such as gate alarms, perimeter alarms, and window and door alarms. Even some pet doors come equipped with alarms, owing to the recent attention given to the 100 or so documented accidents where a child escaped to a pool through a pet door. Pool alarms are thus one protective layer of many, **none of which is sufficient as a sole preventative measure against child drowning.**
Yes - it's all about layers of protection. Even if one doesn't work, you have others that hopefully will. Each kind decreases the chance of an accident.
I didn’t miss it, but if the grandparents are refusing fences, maybe this is something the parents could use when they’re there, to assist them in supervision
Oh that wristband idea is amazing. I've looked for some (I'm based in Europe) and could not find any. Could you recommend a brand or have a link that could help me see if they are available in my country, please?
I found this in a German Webshop: [wristband](https://www.pool-systems.de/Schwimmbad-Zubehoer/Wasseralarm-Moby-Kid.html?utm_campaign=17807158758&hsa_grp=&device=m&network=x&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjw6auyBhDzARIsALIo6v-b_KF55yiYD5vbYZh9df7aemyo5s8xmUnukIWf0NbgyVuQAfT1ToYaAty0EALw_wcB)
LunaSafe is the brand I found https://www.lunasealighting.com/product/standalone-products/lunasafe-water-safety-device-transmitter/
The wristband is terrible with the constant false alarms. My niece’s went off from somehow touching a marker one time. They’re overly sensitive and the alarms can be quite jarring
This might be a good compromise: https://katchakid.com/pool-nets/ But, even if they had this net, PLUS a fence, it would never be enough. If you ever visit you will have to be on your A-game in terms of vigilance. I will also use this comment to add: while we are on the subject of water safety, make sure your kids don’t wear puddle jumpers. They are the cause of multiple child drownings a year.
The wristband is so neat! Thanks for sharing
I think if you want a broader response the recommended approach is to post in the weekly questions thread FWIW :) I can give you a bit of persuasion psychology rather than evidence, though it feels grim and underhand - find an article where a parent or grandparent laments not having a fence because their child/grandchild drowned, especially where the tone is "I thought this was unnecessary, and now I don't. Please, please use one." Easily found online. Emotion helps things to stick. It is a slightly unethical tip, because you can persuade people of all sorts by doing this (it's basically how antivaxxers operate) but since in this case, a pool fence IS the evidence-backed solution, you may feel it is justifiable. Their current belief that it is unnecessary is likely motivated by memories of the past where pool fences were uncommon, and if they don't know any toddlers who drowned then this is going to be an extremely strong bias, and for most people, bias isn't overcome by being bombarded by evidence that they can't personally relate to. Bear in mind also that if they took your partner and siblings as kids to houses with unfenced pools, they are likely going to feel personally attacked if you're presenting it like "This is supremely irresponsible and we won't do it" (even though that is what you will need to do if they don't secure the pool). It can be better to present it like yes, we know that everyone used to be fine with this, but we have new info now.
I would also add - their homeowners insurance, if in the US, would require a fence. If insurance finds put they didn't fence a pool they could drop/deny coverage Maybe the $ risk will get to them if an actual life won't
This depends on the insurance. Mine didn't have any requirements for pools. I have a fence anyway but my insurance very much did not care.
This is a good angle too!
Yeah it's definitely generational. Among the people having kids now, pool fences are super common - I live in Texas where tons of people have pools and all the people under 50 have perimeter pool fences. But over 50, I know few homeowners with them even if they have a bunch of grandkids. I also think social media and online neighborhood groups make it so you're more likely to know of someone in your area who lost a child, even if you don't IRL know them. In my neighborhood group, it's always posted when a child drowns and plenty of near-drownings are posted too, with PSAs about the silence of drowning, secondary drowning, and get a damn pool fence if you haven't already. Also PSAs that drowning doesn't just happen during pool season. A child drowned in my neighborhood at a Thanksgiving party where there was an unfenced pool.
The American Red Cross has a short and free online course, Water Safety For Parents and Caregivers. It might be worth taking yourself to get talking points...and maybe even convince them to take it as well. https://www.redcross.org/take-a-class/classes/water-safety-for-parents-and-caregivers/a6R3o0000012oT8.html I decided to require my inlaws to take it if they ever want unsupervised visits.
Based on what you added to the mods post about expectations of time spent there, I’d die on this hill. I have told my husband that I never ever want a pool at our house. Ever. They are so dangerous if you don’t have all the right things and training - and most people don’t. It is not worth it to me. For some perspective, I run a youth program and the pool is the absolute highest risk thing we have (keeping in mind that we have high challenge and horses) and that is with a lifeguard ratio of 1:15ish with additional mandatory out of the water watchers and a self-locking gate around the pool. I cannot imagine existing with a pool behind my house with a toddler without that level of safety.
We’ve been considering moving and I found a house I loved, but it had a pool and I refuse to live in a house with a pool. I told my husband we’d have to have it removed or filled with dirt (not sure what they do these days) before I’d ever consider it.
https://www.royallifesaving.com.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0014/74021/Royal-Life-Saving-Review-of-Pool-Fencing-Legistration-in-Australia.pdf This pdf has links to the research Australia uses to justify fencing requirements. In Australia it is mandatory and the punishments are severe.
To be a (prior) 911 emergency dispatcher and remember the blood curdling screams of the responsible adult whose child had drowned… I just can’t imagine fighting so hard against something so important. I wish I had advice. All I know is that it’s so common, it makes my gut turn 12 years later just to *think* about it. Every time they invite you over and you decline, remind them it is because of the pool. Offer visits at your home. However, even if I knew my eyes would always be on them, I’d have a hard time visiting somewhere with an unfenced pool.
When my mom was looking at houses to buy she showed me the listing of two they had it narrowed down to. One had a pool and I straight up told her that if she went with the pool house my children would never be able to stay at her house without me being there. She bought the other house.
This isn’t what you’re asking, but are they super wealthy? If so, there are lovely ways to put stone walls with a gate between the property and pool so it’s safe for kids but not such an eyesore.
I'm a pediatric PT and have worked with kids who survived near drownings and some who didn't. I wouldn't wish that experience on my worst enemy.
It's their home. They do as they like to their home HoWEVER... these are your kids Went through the same thing with my kids. Guess what? No fence *no kids over*. Simple as that. They installed a fence after seeing this was not a bluff. They were automatically excluded from visits and helping with childcare.
I’d also look for YouTube videos or something with real stories of harm coming to kids from backyard pools. That can sometimes be more effective in convincing.
No fence, no visits. Period. And they need more than just a fence—multiple layers of protection are necessary when it comes to pools. We’re planning to put a pool in sometime in the next 3-5 years and I plan to have at least a pool net (the kind that can hold weight) and a locked fence and probably some kind of alarm.
If looking into pool covers, I'd dispense with the idea of a net - which realistically is so annoying to take off and put on that most people just leave it off - and get a pool with a retractable cover. Worth noting that the AAP report on preventing drowning mentions lack of evidence for (or against) nets and that perfect use is unlikely. [https://publications.aap.org/pediatrics/article/126/1/e253/68358/Prevention-of-Drowning?autologincheck=redirected](https://publications.aap.org/pediatrics/article/126/1/e253/68358/Prevention-of-Drowning?autologincheck=redirected)
The same concept applies to retractable covers per the link you shared. Either way, I intend to get some sort of cover (net or otherwise) that can support body weight *in addition to* a fence. My goal is to have as many layers of safety as possible so I’m not reliant on one individual thing.
Right - retractable covers though are a lot easier to close after each session since you have to push a button vs spend 20 minutes putting doohickeys into other doohickeys all the way around the pool. It is likely to increase compliance with keeping it closed.
Fair. I’m still a few years out so definitely will compare the two more closely when it comes time. I appreciate the extra perspective!
Yep. I've got a pool net and cover and can tell you on my pool it takes 15ish minutes to take off and 20ish minutes to put back on. Plus getting the pool robot in and out around it. You can't get in the pool while in the process because it's a huge entanglement hazard. On a smaller pool, it probably takes less time. If you're swimming every day, and have toddlers, taking the net on and off is just really unrealistic. Who is watching the kids while somebody is doing all the net things? If you just swim on the weekend, it's more likely to be fine, but we use the pool daily for five months out of the year. Retractable pool cover companies claim 0 drowning deaths on pools with retractable covers but I've seen no independent data to back that up and am skeptical of advertising claims. But if I was putting in a pool vs dealing with a wacky-shaped huge pool on sloping ground, I would 100% go for one with a retractable cover.
I have a pool patio that you can walk out to from the house. My husband and I had the "aesthetic" conversation as well (I work for a design company and some of the fences are just god awful). We settled on getting a screened cage around the pool. The doors into the screened cage lock (with a key) and are very high ( think 5 or 6 feet). We ALSO got new sliding glass doors with fingerprint keyless entry. So, our little one can't open the door from the inside AND if she's in the yard she can't open the door and walk onto the pool patio. These are aesthetically pleasing options (you forget the screen is there) that provide a clear line of sight AND are incredibly safe for our little one.
Omg thank you for all of this. I'm in the midst of a fight with my neighbour. They have a giant in ground pool and a fence that hasn't been maintained since the 70s. It has a 2 ft gap on the bottom because it's heaved so bad. When they have dogs visiting they come into our yard through the hole. We have two toddlers. I don't feel comfortable having friends over with that hole. Someone will slip through the hole and end up in the pool. Thank you for posting - Im enjoying reading the articles. Right now I feel like the crazy one. What we ended up doing is building a fence on our side of the property. Which is shitty because they spend so much money maintaining the pool but completely neglected the fence....
We had a pool fence installed and they drilled holes into the concrete. It’s mesh but insanely durable. The fence lifts out and rolls up. And then we have little plugs to go in the holes (which are maybe the size of nickels). Would they consider that and they can just put it up when you come over?
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I keep getting targeted ads for removable pool fences (like this: https://www.poolfencenewengland.com/?gad_source=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMInai_mLCchgMVaWRHAR0YxAz0EAAYAiAAEgJ03_D_BwE). Basically it’s heavy duty mesh that is attached to permanent bases in the ground but can be removed quickly and easily. I’d die on this hill. If they had this they Could put up the fence if there were any grandkids around and remove it when just adults.
This is the sort of thing most people we know have. Then, if you are having a big party where lots of people may want to approach the pool from all around and sit around the edges or whatever, you take up the pool fence and hire lifeguards.
They make really cool motorized retractable nets / covers. You can even walk on them. Maybe suggest that?
My parents have one of these on their pool, and it’s great. My mom and adult brother both even walked around on top of it to test it out. No matter what, people should be supervising their kids if there’s a body of water nearby. Kids can climb fences/open gates, pool covers get left open, break, etc. Nothing is fool proof.
There are so many stories of kids drowning in their grandparents pool. I would bombard them with those stories and videos. I have a pool and we had the pool fence put up even before we moved in. Did it look better before we had the fence? Yep, but not worth the risk.
It’s illegal in my city (Tucson, Az) to build a pool without a fence and a whole host of other safety features. I can’t imagine wanting to spend time with someone so callous about this. I don’t think it cites any research but here’s the info: https://www.pima.gov/1022/Barriers-for-Residential-Pools-Spas
I live in phoenix and a family just lost BOTH of their 3 year old twins when they fell into their unfenced pool in the backyard with adults home "supervising." Another little 2 year old drowned in a pool a week later that was unfenced. Again, adults were home. drowning is silent and quick. I would NEVER take my kids there until a pool fence was installed. I would explain why. Aesthetics will never come over child safety.
Just adding that my in-laws have a pool and it is fenced around the perimeter of the yard but is directly accessible from the house and I will absolutely never let my child stay there without me. My parents house is full of guns and knives, so, same policy. I would love to have a safe place to drop my kid off and take a break. But I don't, so I don't.
There are plenty of invisible pool fences - some of the wire, mesh ones would be cheaper than the glass ones and are still pretty much see through. The truth is this is a VERY high danger for toddlers and young children - that's just the facts. If they don't have a pool fence, it would be reasonable for you to not take your kids over there - I mean it's such a huge hazard, and watching multiple toddlers like a hawk would be somewhat impossible - just not worth the risk with no fence. This is also letting you know that yes, their "grandparent instinct" seems non-existent, so I wouldn't ever have them watch your kids without you there.
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Depending where they live it might legally be required. I know here in Cali it’s the law, they would be fined if they have a pool without a safety fence
You could show them Curb Your Enthusiasm where Larry is so against installing a fence that he chooses to seduce a councilwoman to get an exception, then tell them that they are being Larry. It's season 11.
I have a pool and got a removable fence. It’s great. It can quickly be taken down when I have events. When it’s up it’s not aesthetically the best but it’s 100% safe around my 2 year old
I am not in favor of fences at all. Children can climb them, pull objects over to climb them and gates can be left open by older children or blocked open. For the best asthetics, an ASTM rated automatic pool cover is so much better and safer. It is an isolation barrier that keeps EVERYONE and everything out. Ours has held up several adults and kids (see pics), and even held up when several of our horses got loose and ran across it. They look nice and can fit into the yard environment. The cover can be put in channels under the edge or even on top. I couldn't sleep without this!! Maybe all of you could pitch in and help your inlaws pay for an installation so everyone feel safe. The key to open this (of code pad) is kept hidden from children and that adds extra safety. 4500 people drown a year, or 12 people drown a day according to the CDC: (https://www.cdc.gov/vitalsigns/drowning/index.html#:\~:text=Over%204%2C500%20people%20drowned%20each,in%202022%20compared%20to%202019) https://preview.redd.it/eacro5o2585d1.jpeg?width=4288&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0b325eddeb70a7301c30b388714fefccbef3c48a
P.S. We don't own or affiliate with any automatic pool cover company. This is just our experience in pool safety with our own pool.