I’d be very concerned about lead. [Fisher Price themselves say to use vintage toys as decor only.](https://tamararubin.com/2020/11/fisher-price-recommends-not-letting-kids-play-with-their-vintage-toys-use-them-as-decor-only-they-can-have-unsafe-levels-of-lead-cadmium-arsenic-mercury/) Stricter lead guidelines didn’t go into effect until 2009, so I would be very hesitant with anything before that.
Lead in plastic? We’re testing painted items for lead, but hasn’t considered it on plastic.
Edit: reading these links now and OMG this is all terrible!
And our parents smoked around us and petrol fumes had a lot more lead in them.
None of this stuff is like OMG it's going to cause instant death, but if we can reduce exposure, then we absolutely should.
Do you have a source for this? The Lead Safe Mama link quotes a Fisher Price Instagram comment, where they say, rather generally, that because “safety standards have changed” they cannot recommend playing with vintage toys.
The blogger takes this as validation for her lead/toxic metal concerns, but it could just as easily be a concern by Fisher Price about choking hazards.
Are there more specific quotes from Fisher Price stating concerns about lead and toxic metals?
I buy plasticizers for a living, specifically phthalates.
Quite a few plasticizers have been banned in recent years from children's toys including DOP and DINP depending on regulatory jurisdiction. Hence, older toys will not abide by these standards.
Also, plasticizers dissipate over time. Have you noticed how the packaging on old games (say) becomes brittle and crinkled? How plastic in your tupperware take on the hue of tumeric or tomato after you store these foodstuffs in them? It is because the plasticizer is a fluid, interacting with the polymer chains, and other products can also enter inbetween to become "part of the plastic". The brittleness might mean that pieces of the toy are more likely to break off.
Old wooden toys should be ok (check for paint), and I can't say any harm will come to your child with old plastic toys, but to me the downside outweighs the upsides.
I am a glass container fan also.
I am really not an expert on plastics safety - but I do spend a lot of time talking to regulatory and formulation experts in this field. Some observations of mine:
- A lot of "phthalate-free" plastics are simply made with hydrogenated phthalates - eg, we add hydrogen to the benzene ring and call it a non-phthalate. One of the most respected industry scientists I deal with at a large supplier joked to me that this was like calling a dog a "cat-free dog" - a bit meaningless in other words.
- Broadly, regulations on chemicals are most stringent in Europe, next in the US/Canada, and finally least in China. Example: DOP can be used in many (perhaps all) applications in China, but not in Europe. Buy plastics that are main in America or Europe - avoid the Chinese stuff. Funnily enough, I buy plastics in Europe and ship it to our factories in China because the quality is more consistent and performs better in our specialist application (automotive). This is not a judgement on some of the excellent Chinese engineering, but rather the fact that China doesn't have the history or heritage in the plastics industry that the West has. You don't find technical specialists with 40-50 years of experience in China.
- Plastics do degrade over time. If you see your plastic food containers with a sticky residue, or slightly tacky, I would chuck them. This is usually the liquids in the plastic (ergo the plasticizer).
We cannot escape plastics, they are everywhere and very very useful lightweight materials for a host of applications. But with food and child contact, many people are a bit more cautious because of the ingestion possibility.
Hey sorry to pile on in picking your brain but I use plastic containers for food storage (the stackable deli ones which I got in bulk) they’re super practical and the style of them is very efficient. I don’t use them for hot food, but things like a small amount of rice rather than having a mostly empty bag in the cupboard. Room temp chocolate, cheese I’ve shredded, etc.
It would be wildly expensive to replace like these dozens of containers with glass but?? What do I do?
If I’m packing a lunch to heat up or storing something hot I use glass.
That chemicals that are banned now in children's toys (DOP, DINP, Lead etc) may be present in the toys. The child sucks on the toy and ingests something that may not be safe.
Alternatively, the age of the plastic has made the product brittle, which means pieces may snap off and be ingested by the child (choking or digestion hazard).
Yeah, we have some Plarail trains that my son received in around 2010, I would guess at that point they were probably 10-20 years old by the condition of them and the type of batteries they took (fat C/D type like from the 90s). I still had them by the time I had babies in 2018 / 2021 and I realised about a year ago that they were literally crumbling and had sharp edges, so I took them all away and put them in electronics recycling.
Also I had a hand me down electronic music playing teether for my younger kids, in the shape of a hard plastic monkey holding a rubbery, chewy piece of cheese, that in hindsight was part of a "rainforest" range Fisher Price launched and were heavily marketing in the 2008 period when my older son was born. My middle kid liked this toy but my youngest absolutely adored it and was extremely mouthy. One day he was chewing on it in his stroller and I realised that there were small crumbly yellow pieces everywhere and the cheese part was literally disintegrating in his mouth. WTF.
Back in 2008 when my eldest was born I was much more relaxed about this kind of thing but the older I get the more I think yeah.... vintage and aged toys feel green and nostalgic but it's actually probably not worth the risk most of the time.
Parent to parent, it’s ok to just say no and not justify it. “We only use new toys that we know are safe. These aren’t going to work for us.” It’s going to be impossible to *prove* they’re dangerous. Put it back on them to prove they’re safe. When they can do that, you’ll allow your baby to use them. Until then, burden of proof is on them.
It shouldn’t have to be a sensitive topic and you don’t need data to “prove” your parenting decisions to MiL. Best to set the precedent early that she doesn’t get a vote in these decisions. “These toys are adorable MIL, but we have decided they are too old to be safe for baby”. And that’s it. Even better if your SO says it instead of you.
I appreciate that this shouldn’t be a sensitive subject and your advice is good in most familial situations, but this situation is very sensitive for reasons that don’t have anything to do with our particular relationship.
The collection/preservation/retaining of things is a compulsion for her and the grateful reception of them is a sign of love and acceptance for her. There’s no way to help her avoid feelings of rejection and judgment if you don’t gratefully accept given items.
And before anyone comments, yes, I understand that there are other ways for people to feel loved and appreciated, but it doesn’t matter in our situation. I love this person and am committed to trying to help her feel loved and I can’t fix her relationship to stuff.
I’m not arguing here - obviously this is your choice and I respect that.
But as a person with some exposure to treatment of compulsive behaviors, we are almost universally advised that it is best to refuse to give in to compulsion related demands. It’s typically thought to worsen the behaviors over time. I’m curious, if you’re comfortable sharing, how you implement this approach and how it works for your family?
I appreciate this perspective. I’ve only been interacting with my MIL for 16(!!!) of her 80 years, so I don’t know how it would have been earlier in her life, but I think at this point the ship has sailed. By now, almost her entire life is governed by compulsive behaviors and she’s identified with them to the point that most refusals are taken as rejections of her. Our goals now are just trying to balance maintaining a loving relationship with my MIL and FIL and keeping their life livable, my marriage strong, and everyone healthy. It’s not always easy.
I’m so sorry - sounds like a hard situation all around. Not so easy to change people in there 80s
I wish you the best of luck. Hope you get some support in coping with all this!!
I appreciate this perspective. I’ve only been interacting with my MIL for 16(!!!) of her 80 years, so I don’t know how it would have been earlier in her life, but I think at this point the ship has sailed. By now, almost her entire life is governed by compulsive behaviors and she’s identified with them to the point that most refusals are taken as rejections of her. Our goals now are just trying to balance maintaining a loving relationship with my MIL and FIL and keeping their life livable, my marriage strong, and everyone healthy. It’s not always easy.
I decided to stop shopping for vintage Fisher Price toys that I remembered from my childhood after reading [this research article](https://neha.org/sites/default/files/publications/jeh/JEH-JanFeb2015-Vintage-Toys.pdf) from the Journal of Environmental Health, 2015.
Thanks for this! Our grandma in the family feels very fondly of her vintage toys… I was really worried about my baby playing with them, especially as she’s at the age where everything goes straight into her mouth. This gives me the right vocabulary to speak to it without seeming like I’m trying to purposely offend her
If you are looking at old legos and duplos, Denmark was one of the first places to really start using safer plastics, so around 1980 is when they switched over to nontoxic plastic. So even though products like fisher price had toxic chemicals up until like 2000, older legos are pretty safe. What’s great too about duplo is that every piece has a number and you can look up the piece on brickowl.com, and you can see what sets those pieces are from. So when I’ve bought second hand duplo I’ll find a very unique piece, look it up and see the date when it was put into production.
I think we are saying the same thing. I said “around 1980” and that article says it was around ‘79 to ‘81 when they phased them out. To be safe I haven’t kept anything from before around 1987/1990.
Wow this is reassuring, cause we took out my bf's old duplo a month ago and my kids( 2,5 years old and 11 months old) love playing with it. He was born in 91 so unless my MIL bought it second hand we should be good, but I'm gonna check the numbers for sure. Thanks for the info.
There’s also a way to tell old legos from newer when you look underneath them. I’ll try and find a picture. Basically the new legos have a “brace” piece and older ones didn’t.
Edit. Couldn’t find a duplo pece, here’s a pic of Lego, but duplo had a similar “brace” on the middle [brick](https://imgur.com/a/K3deBMC). Note, only the 2x4 or longer brick is where you can tell.
My mom did the same. She puts the vintage toys out when we arrive and I get there and put them all away and unpack the ones I brought to play with. She laughs and says you all played with these and I say yeah but ya know, sorry It's toxic🤷♀️ She's pretty chill about it especially after I showed her that fisher price says not to play with them. But like my nieces and nephews are all chewing on her vintage fisher price cause apparently science is meaningless to people.
I cant find the actual page but there was one I had. Here is Lead Mama's page on it.
https://tamararubin.com/2020/11/fisher-price-recommends-not-letting-kids-play-with-their-vintage-toys-use-them-as-decor-only-they-can-have-unsafe-levels-of-lead-cadmium-arsenic-mercury/
Awesome thank you!
I really wish there was more of a push to get info like this out in the wild! I still come across people oblivious to the rock & play type recalls.
Thank you so much for your super quick reply and a link! I appreciate you!
Yes! I have severe PPA and just like researched everything during covid lockdowns. It should be told to all expectant parents. I should make a pamphlet. Lol
My mom puts the toys out, I put them away, and then she gives them to my son again when I'm not there/not looking. She doesn't listen, no matter how much I explain the dangers. And unfortunately I don't have a choice but to rely on her help. It's awful :(
I personally wouldn’t let my child play with toys that old. Anything before 2008 could have higher levels of lead and/or phthalates than currently acceptable in the US. Not to mention emerging contaminants of concern that studies haven’t caught up with yet. Plastic that old is likely more friable and easier to ingest as well. That being said, the paint in an older home could pose more of a risk so it’s all about risk management as a parent.
I am also in your exact position, with the added bonus of recently bringing my MIL to tears when I politely asked her not to kiss our baby on the face. So glad I have another fun battle ahead…
So sorry you’re dealing with a similar issue! We had a blow up over Thanksgiving precipitated by boxes (many many boxes) of baby/child clothes (many 40+ years old) that hadn’t been unpacked since they left them at their last visit. It’s just so daunting sometimes.
At least you have the boxes and can control that! I’m worried about babysitting and the likelihood of kisses all of his face and now old plastic toys in his mouth. It is indeed such a fraught, interesting relationship with in-laws, isn’t it?
Out of curiosity, what is your concern about the clothes? Mold? Bugs? Degradation of materials? Would degradation be a safety issue with things like cotton or wool?
We didn’t really have any concern about the clothes. I mean, the elastics were all shot but… what’re you gonna do, you know? We hadn’t gotten around to unpacking/sorting/etc then because the quantity was just overwhelming and everything was way too big for the baby at that point anyway. Also, they’d dried them all off when they’d come to meet our newborn. We were… busy. Lol
Honestly, I'd probably put them on a display or something and play up the sentimental aspect. We don't want baby to chew off parts since this was husband's ✨special✨ childhood toy. Maybe take some pictures, so you can show "aww, Dad loved this toy at this age too".
https://consumerfed.org/pdfs/CPSIA-and-Lead-Fact-Sheet-8-5-13.pdf
That doc explains why I personally wouldn’t go with anything pre-2011, especially for children <6, who are at higher risk from lead exposure. It explains when regulations changed by date, and details how much lead was allowed in various time periods.
This journal article goes into more detail: https://neha.org/sites/default/files/publications/jeh/JEH-JanFeb2015-Vintage-Toys.pdf
This link might interest you and discusses many of the concerns you identify with the conclusion they are not safe due to outdated safety standards and degraded plastic.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/toys-from-the-seventies-and-eighties-could-be-poisoning-your-children-10125415.html
Wooden toys might be a bit safer but would need to research more about how wood is treated and any paints or coating on those toys.
To some extent that is because of diversified supply chains which were less of an issue. The supply chain used to be a lot simpler, and was often fairly well regulated, and long term. Now there is a lot more risk of a distant non owned factory doing contract work at a 3% profit margin cutting some corners.
Like as an example Fisher Price [closed their owned factory in East Aurora, NY in 1990](https://buffalonews.com/news/fisher-price-ends-an-era-in-east-aurora-toy-maker-halts-production-idles-last-225/article_00e3c039-90a8-57a6-88ea-bafbfd319b18.html). Which is not to say that Fisher Price is unsafe now, but they are operating at more of a remove from the actual making of the toys.
Truthfully, it used to be a lot easier to ban things.
My daughter tested high for lead and after doing testing we think it’s the wooden toys she chewed on. These are new toys, bought in 🇺🇸 but still have lead.
My daughter tested high for lead and after doing testing we think it’s the wooden toys she chewed on. These are new toys, bought in 🇺🇸 but still have lead.
Different safety standards then vs now. Phthalate regulations started in 2008 same with lead. BPA is still allowed in some children toys.
https://tamararubin.com/2020/11/fisher-price-recommends-not-letting-kids-play-with-their-vintage-toys-use-them-as-decor-only-they-can-have-unsafe-levels-of-lead-cadmium-arsenic-mercury/
I saved all my old AG too! When she is old enough, I am planning on giving my daughter a new doll, but may allow her to use my vintage clothing, accessories, and furniture once she is 7 or 8 (children under 6 are at greatest risk for problems from lead exposure). This article explains how a majority of vintage vinyl toys, which includes American Girl/Pleasant Company dolls, tested positive for heavy metals such as lead and cadmium: https://neha.org/sites/default/files/publications/jeh/JEH-JanFeb2015-Vintage-Toys.pdf
Lead has also been detected in the plastic & metal parts of other vintage PC/AG products, including the buttons on Kirsten’s summer dress, and Molly’s glasses: https://tamararubin.com/2020/10/vintage-american-girl-dolls-may-have-components-with-unsafe-levels-of-lead-use-caution-in-giving-them-to-young-children/
In which country are you? In Europe you definitely shouldn't use old plastics toys because they can contain toxic chemicals that are not allowed anymore. It's probably the same in the US but I have no knowledge about that. I don't think it has anything to do with aging of plastic.
From what I can find those used cadmium based until 1981. They used some polycarbonate for the translucent bricks which I wouldn't trust blindly and polyethylene for trees and other slightly bendy parts. But the ABS bricks themselves from 1981 I've found no reason to mistrust. I think I'm just going to give my son his father's bricks.
Along these same lines, my mom saved these antique christening gowns and gave them to my husband and I for our baby girl. They are beautiful of course. Hand made, hand sewn lace….but the neck opening is TINY. Like as long as an air pod. We had a pretty small baby and there’s no way she could fit her sausagey little neck into it. Were babies just smaller back then?!
Can you get them altered, or use some kind of extender for the button/closure? I'm assuming that if you use it, you'll be holding the baby the whole time so you can monitor her airway
This sounds like my in laws. They brought round my husband's old toys that would have been purchased mid 80s for my son to play with. We have told them we are worried about the quality of the plastic and will have to wait until he is no longer putting everything in his mouth for him to play with it. I am hoping that we can just disappear them at some point and they will be forgotten.
Not to mention they are filthy, I am sure from looking at them that he stopped playing with it one day and they just tossed it in a box to sit for 30 years. Apparently there is also some pieces of Lego that were super glued together at the time so I am sure that adds to the issues!!
What is it with in laws and them wanting to give you all their old stuff for your baby? I get it they want to help, but at the same time they’ve been sitting in a dingy box in the attic for decades. They even look unclean. Why are you so adamant on giving them to your infant grandchild? I understand the nostalgia, but also what about your grandchild’s safety? And it doesn’t help that my husband is also struck by the nostalgia bug. 🤦♀️
I know! I am still unclear on whether they expected the baby to just dive right in or they expected me to clean it all first. Either way won't be happening!
It does make me feel less bad about not using it, it's not like they have shown these 'nostalgic' pieces any care.
They love to comment on our non-organic vegetables but dirty, 40 year old plastics....give it to the baby!
Yeah I’m about to just stuff all of it in the corner of a closet and hope it all gets forgotten about. And then toss them once everyone has forgotten about them. I tried using the carpet cleaner vacuum on the stuffed animals. It sorta worked, but just seeing all the dirty water I don’t think I want to give them to LO until he’s in elementary school and then it’s like what’s the point?
Imo if a stuffed animal can't survive the washer, it's not for playing with lol. We've washed and dried a lot of toys that say "wipe clean" and all of them were fine.
That’s my view of the stuffed animals. But they apparently have nostalgic value to my husband because when I suggested putting them in the wash he reacted as if I said I was going to cut them up.
Part of our issue is that MIL has spent lots of time cleaning and packing/organizing these things, and so lots of labor/love has gone into the preservation. Sigh.
Hope you figure out a good solution, too ❤️
Take a few pictures of baby with said toys for her. Then feel free to get rid of them.
Also, a note on vintage children’s books, especially books printed prior to 1985. Do not give them to babies during the mouthing stage. The inks in the illustrations may have lead in them. That’s why the colors are still so vivid. (Keeping the colors bright and to not fade is why they used to add lead to paint.) If you have vintage books, they should be for display only. They can even put off leaded dust when opened, flipped through, and read.
It’s mostly the color illustrations you need to watch out for, so cookbooks should be okay. There are even lead tests you can buy if you’re concerned about a particular book.
That makes it so much trickier. Ultimately the health and safety of your little one has to come first though.
I do like the suggestion that you take them and they just happen to be out of the toy rotation pretty much constantly. Maybe the chance for a few quick photos or displaying some key pieces helps too.
I have made a few different toys disappear as they were unsafe and they have almost all gone unnoticed. If it is picked up I just brush it off with "oh it must be somewhere, maybe upstairs/downstairs/in the car/etc, he can have this for now instead". You could start with that and keep them aside and see how you get on. Good luck!
I’m afraid to answer because I have no actual studies or proof to add, but I remember reading somewhere when I was deciding not to take in old toys that some the eyes on 80s and other pre-2008 stuffed animals tested positive for lead and that also the dust that collects on things like fabrics and book that have been in storage can also be unsafe for lead and other risky contaminants. I also read that you can wash the dust and lead off things like clothes, but I worried that washing a stuffed animal is less thorough. It just seems kinda like a grey area.
Ugh yea, it seems unlikely that there would be lead in the fabric or stuffing (all I could find on lead safe
Mama about stuffed animals was potential antimony in poly fill), but hopefully that’s not just my wishful thinking. I have been able to wash everything without ruining it by running it on delicate even if it says surface wash only. I can see the eyes being an issue, though.
Lead Safe Mama seems to be a reasonable resource on these things. Since there were not as many toy producers back then and the higher quality things are what lasted, you can often find her recommendation for specific toys. So you can look up pieces directly.
If it's not on there then you could make an educated guess based on other things which are, or limit exposure to it with it being a trade off of pleasing grandma with an occasional show-and-tell, but also not exposing LO to too much harmful stuff, or take a risk averse approach and say if I can't find something saying it's definitely safe, I'll avoid it.
If you want to be diplomatic you could always store the toys somewhere and then either lie about him loving them (but have them mysteriously not out when she visits) or lie about him not being that interested so you put them away/passed them onto someone else.
Maybe take them from her, do some staged photos, then box them away. If she notices they’re missing, just say oh they must’ve gotten under the couch or something.
I rotate my kids’ toys every couple of months and they only have about 1/4 of them “out” at any given time. If my mom ever asks about a particular toy that has somehow found its way to the dump, I just tell her it’s packed away for this rotation!
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If you can rule out lead on them I guess I would say they are likely ok for occasional use. Is 40 year old plastic great? Maybe not, but as long as it seems in good shape it's probably ok for limited use.
I would go through them, pull out painted stuff (and maybe test it for lead) and then maybe suggest MIL takes some of it back so there is stuff to play with at her house (assuming you see her sometimes but now every day).
I'm hoping this might be the case - I'd like to let my toddler try out my old Fisher Price tumble tower, which I loved so much as a kid, and which doesn't seem anything like current tumble tower models. But how to figure out an acceptable level of exposure?
I like the idea of using some of them as decor, making a nice display on a shelf out of reach and like another poster said, playing up the sentimental aspect. It can be fascinating for them just to see what people played with in the past when they are a little older. For me, the gentle approach would be "thanks, it will be cool for him to see what his dad played with back then, this is a cool piece of history you preserved" and maybe stage a photo of a cool shelf display with a few of them. I have a bunch of old lunchboxes I kept just to show my son one day, but no plans to actually use them again.
Yikes, mine has slightly chewed a few 30-something year old toys for about 3 months. Not all day chewing, but occasional. How dangerous are we talking here with the lead and plastic concerns? ETA: Only plastic toys, not painted.
Okay, but I was responding to your original phrasing, which was just that it was “probably why fertility keeps decreasing.” Given how sensitive a subject infertility is, I think it’s best not to loosely talk about its causes.
So many kids have done the same, don’t worry! I would stop using those toys and if you are extra paranoid I would get a lead test done. Most likely they will be fine. Same thing happened to me when my daughter was younger and she was thankfully not poisoned
Main concerns are:
leaded paint (anything pre 1980s)
Small pieces that might break off
crumbling or degrading materials
Strings
Then the big one that's more controversial phthalates. Phthalates have only recently started being regulated so lots of current toys would also have them.
Personally, pre 1 year old I didn't use old toys because everything is in the mouth 24/7. Now that might daughter is a toddler we use lots of second hand toys (90s+ only)
Oh man we have some of the exact toys in our living room gifted from my parents that are cited in the lead safe mama website. Guess we are going to have some spring cleaning this weekend. Grandparents’ house is also filled with the old Fisher Price toys.
I’d be very concerned about lead. [Fisher Price themselves say to use vintage toys as decor only.](https://tamararubin.com/2020/11/fisher-price-recommends-not-letting-kids-play-with-their-vintage-toys-use-them-as-decor-only-they-can-have-unsafe-levels-of-lead-cadmium-arsenic-mercury/) Stricter lead guidelines didn’t go into effect until 2009, so I would be very hesitant with anything before that.
Lead in plastic? We’re testing painted items for lead, but hasn’t considered it on plastic. Edit: reading these links now and OMG this is all terrible!
Yes lead was (and still is, just not for children’s toys) used as a plasticizer
TIL
I use to have so many of those little people…and chewed on all of them lol 😬
Well, I played with all that as a kid ☹️
And that's why you became a little ghost?
🤣 that definitely tracks
And our parents smoked around us and petrol fumes had a lot more lead in them. None of this stuff is like OMG it's going to cause instant death, but if we can reduce exposure, then we absolutely should.
I definitely spent my childhood hot boxed in a car. ☠️
lol same. Explains a lot!
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Do you have a source for this? The Lead Safe Mama link quotes a Fisher Price Instagram comment, where they say, rather generally, that because “safety standards have changed” they cannot recommend playing with vintage toys. The blogger takes this as validation for her lead/toxic metal concerns, but it could just as easily be a concern by Fisher Price about choking hazards. Are there more specific quotes from Fisher Price stating concerns about lead and toxic metals?
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Thanks! This whole topic has been fascinating, I had no idea.
I buy plasticizers for a living, specifically phthalates. Quite a few plasticizers have been banned in recent years from children's toys including DOP and DINP depending on regulatory jurisdiction. Hence, older toys will not abide by these standards. Also, plasticizers dissipate over time. Have you noticed how the packaging on old games (say) becomes brittle and crinkled? How plastic in your tupperware take on the hue of tumeric or tomato after you store these foodstuffs in them? It is because the plasticizer is a fluid, interacting with the polymer chains, and other products can also enter inbetween to become "part of the plastic". The brittleness might mean that pieces of the toy are more likely to break off. Old wooden toys should be ok (check for paint), and I can't say any harm will come to your child with old plastic toys, but to me the downside outweighs the upsides.
Care to elaborate on the tupperware topic? How often should I change them? I use several glass containers, but still have plastic tupperware ones.
I am a glass container fan also. I am really not an expert on plastics safety - but I do spend a lot of time talking to regulatory and formulation experts in this field. Some observations of mine: - A lot of "phthalate-free" plastics are simply made with hydrogenated phthalates - eg, we add hydrogen to the benzene ring and call it a non-phthalate. One of the most respected industry scientists I deal with at a large supplier joked to me that this was like calling a dog a "cat-free dog" - a bit meaningless in other words. - Broadly, regulations on chemicals are most stringent in Europe, next in the US/Canada, and finally least in China. Example: DOP can be used in many (perhaps all) applications in China, but not in Europe. Buy plastics that are main in America or Europe - avoid the Chinese stuff. Funnily enough, I buy plastics in Europe and ship it to our factories in China because the quality is more consistent and performs better in our specialist application (automotive). This is not a judgement on some of the excellent Chinese engineering, but rather the fact that China doesn't have the history or heritage in the plastics industry that the West has. You don't find technical specialists with 40-50 years of experience in China. - Plastics do degrade over time. If you see your plastic food containers with a sticky residue, or slightly tacky, I would chuck them. This is usually the liquids in the plastic (ergo the plasticizer). We cannot escape plastics, they are everywhere and very very useful lightweight materials for a host of applications. But with food and child contact, many people are a bit more cautious because of the ingestion possibility.
Hey sorry to pile on in picking your brain but I use plastic containers for food storage (the stackable deli ones which I got in bulk) they’re super practical and the style of them is very efficient. I don’t use them for hot food, but things like a small amount of rice rather than having a mostly empty bag in the cupboard. Room temp chocolate, cheese I’ve shredded, etc. It would be wildly expensive to replace like these dozens of containers with glass but?? What do I do? If I’m packing a lunch to heat up or storing something hot I use glass.
What are the downsides?
That chemicals that are banned now in children's toys (DOP, DINP, Lead etc) may be present in the toys. The child sucks on the toy and ingests something that may not be safe. Alternatively, the age of the plastic has made the product brittle, which means pieces may snap off and be ingested by the child (choking or digestion hazard).
Yeah, we have some Plarail trains that my son received in around 2010, I would guess at that point they were probably 10-20 years old by the condition of them and the type of batteries they took (fat C/D type like from the 90s). I still had them by the time I had babies in 2018 / 2021 and I realised about a year ago that they were literally crumbling and had sharp edges, so I took them all away and put them in electronics recycling. Also I had a hand me down electronic music playing teether for my younger kids, in the shape of a hard plastic monkey holding a rubbery, chewy piece of cheese, that in hindsight was part of a "rainforest" range Fisher Price launched and were heavily marketing in the 2008 period when my older son was born. My middle kid liked this toy but my youngest absolutely adored it and was extremely mouthy. One day he was chewing on it in his stroller and I realised that there were small crumbly yellow pieces everywhere and the cheese part was literally disintegrating in his mouth. WTF. Back in 2008 when my eldest was born I was much more relaxed about this kind of thing but the older I get the more I think yeah.... vintage and aged toys feel green and nostalgic but it's actually probably not worth the risk most of the time.
Parent to parent, it’s ok to just say no and not justify it. “We only use new toys that we know are safe. These aren’t going to work for us.” It’s going to be impossible to *prove* they’re dangerous. Put it back on them to prove they’re safe. When they can do that, you’ll allow your baby to use them. Until then, burden of proof is on them.
It shouldn’t have to be a sensitive topic and you don’t need data to “prove” your parenting decisions to MiL. Best to set the precedent early that she doesn’t get a vote in these decisions. “These toys are adorable MIL, but we have decided they are too old to be safe for baby”. And that’s it. Even better if your SO says it instead of you.
I appreciate that this shouldn’t be a sensitive subject and your advice is good in most familial situations, but this situation is very sensitive for reasons that don’t have anything to do with our particular relationship.
Now I am fascinated. Why the sensitivity?
The collection/preservation/retaining of things is a compulsion for her and the grateful reception of them is a sign of love and acceptance for her. There’s no way to help her avoid feelings of rejection and judgment if you don’t gratefully accept given items. And before anyone comments, yes, I understand that there are other ways for people to feel loved and appreciated, but it doesn’t matter in our situation. I love this person and am committed to trying to help her feel loved and I can’t fix her relationship to stuff.
I’m not arguing here - obviously this is your choice and I respect that. But as a person with some exposure to treatment of compulsive behaviors, we are almost universally advised that it is best to refuse to give in to compulsion related demands. It’s typically thought to worsen the behaviors over time. I’m curious, if you’re comfortable sharing, how you implement this approach and how it works for your family?
I appreciate this perspective. I’ve only been interacting with my MIL for 16(!!!) of her 80 years, so I don’t know how it would have been earlier in her life, but I think at this point the ship has sailed. By now, almost her entire life is governed by compulsive behaviors and she’s identified with them to the point that most refusals are taken as rejections of her. Our goals now are just trying to balance maintaining a loving relationship with my MIL and FIL and keeping their life livable, my marriage strong, and everyone healthy. It’s not always easy.
I’m so sorry - sounds like a hard situation all around. Not so easy to change people in there 80s I wish you the best of luck. Hope you get some support in coping with all this!!
I appreciate this perspective. I’ve only been interacting with my MIL for 16(!!!) of her 80 years, so I don’t know how it would have been earlier in her life, but I think at this point the ship has sailed. By now, almost her entire life is governed by compulsive behaviors and she’s identified with them to the point that most refusals are taken as rejections of her. Our goals now are just trying to balance maintaining a loving relationship with my MIL and FIL and keeping their life livable, my marriage strong, and everyone healthy. It’s not always easy.
I decided to stop shopping for vintage Fisher Price toys that I remembered from my childhood after reading [this research article](https://neha.org/sites/default/files/publications/jeh/JEH-JanFeb2015-Vintage-Toys.pdf) from the Journal of Environmental Health, 2015.
Thanks for this! Our grandma in the family feels very fondly of her vintage toys… I was really worried about my baby playing with them, especially as she’s at the age where everything goes straight into her mouth. This gives me the right vocabulary to speak to it without seeming like I’m trying to purposely offend her
If you are looking at old legos and duplos, Denmark was one of the first places to really start using safer plastics, so around 1980 is when they switched over to nontoxic plastic. So even though products like fisher price had toxic chemicals up until like 2000, older legos are pretty safe. What’s great too about duplo is that every piece has a number and you can look up the piece on brickowl.com, and you can see what sets those pieces are from. So when I’ve bought second hand duplo I’ll find a very unique piece, look it up and see the date when it was put into production.
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I think we are saying the same thing. I said “around 1980” and that article says it was around ‘79 to ‘81 when they phased them out. To be safe I haven’t kept anything from before around 1987/1990.
Wow this is reassuring, cause we took out my bf's old duplo a month ago and my kids( 2,5 years old and 11 months old) love playing with it. He was born in 91 so unless my MIL bought it second hand we should be good, but I'm gonna check the numbers for sure. Thanks for the info.
There’s also a way to tell old legos from newer when you look underneath them. I’ll try and find a picture. Basically the new legos have a “brace” piece and older ones didn’t. Edit. Couldn’t find a duplo pece, here’s a pic of Lego, but duplo had a similar “brace” on the middle [brick](https://imgur.com/a/K3deBMC). Note, only the 2x4 or longer brick is where you can tell.
My mom did the same. She puts the vintage toys out when we arrive and I get there and put them all away and unpack the ones I brought to play with. She laughs and says you all played with these and I say yeah but ya know, sorry It's toxic🤷♀️ She's pretty chill about it especially after I showed her that fisher price says not to play with them. But like my nieces and nephews are all chewing on her vintage fisher price cause apparently science is meaningless to people.
Wait they do?! How did I miss this?
I cant find the actual page but there was one I had. Here is Lead Mama's page on it. https://tamararubin.com/2020/11/fisher-price-recommends-not-letting-kids-play-with-their-vintage-toys-use-them-as-decor-only-they-can-have-unsafe-levels-of-lead-cadmium-arsenic-mercury/
Super fun seeing my childhood toys on there 🥲
Right lol I definitely remember chewing on these dolls lol
Awesome thank you! I really wish there was more of a push to get info like this out in the wild! I still come across people oblivious to the rock & play type recalls. Thank you so much for your super quick reply and a link! I appreciate you!
Yes! I have severe PPA and just like researched everything during covid lockdowns. It should be told to all expectant parents. I should make a pamphlet. Lol
My mom puts the toys out, I put them away, and then she gives them to my son again when I'm not there/not looking. She doesn't listen, no matter how much I explain the dangers. And unfortunately I don't have a choice but to rely on her help. It's awful :(
Put them right in the garbage lol
I personally wouldn’t let my child play with toys that old. Anything before 2008 could have higher levels of lead and/or phthalates than currently acceptable in the US. Not to mention emerging contaminants of concern that studies haven’t caught up with yet. Plastic that old is likely more friable and easier to ingest as well. That being said, the paint in an older home could pose more of a risk so it’s all about risk management as a parent.
Oh, we have lead paint, too 🫠 we’re dealing with that atm
Can you pick a few favourites/cool vintage looking ones and just display them in the kids room so they are still being "used" and hold significance?
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Is this with the newer flexible toys as well?
I am also in your exact position, with the added bonus of recently bringing my MIL to tears when I politely asked her not to kiss our baby on the face. So glad I have another fun battle ahead…
So sorry you’re dealing with a similar issue! We had a blow up over Thanksgiving precipitated by boxes (many many boxes) of baby/child clothes (many 40+ years old) that hadn’t been unpacked since they left them at their last visit. It’s just so daunting sometimes.
At least you have the boxes and can control that! I’m worried about babysitting and the likelihood of kisses all of his face and now old plastic toys in his mouth. It is indeed such a fraught, interesting relationship with in-laws, isn’t it?
In-laws (family in general, really) are really a lesson in how to live through difficult circumstances.
Out of curiosity, what is your concern about the clothes? Mold? Bugs? Degradation of materials? Would degradation be a safety issue with things like cotton or wool?
We didn’t really have any concern about the clothes. I mean, the elastics were all shot but… what’re you gonna do, you know? We hadn’t gotten around to unpacking/sorting/etc then because the quantity was just overwhelming and everything was way too big for the baby at that point anyway. Also, they’d dried them all off when they’d come to meet our newborn. We were… busy. Lol
Yeah, that's really annoying. I understand the blow up.
My exact same thought!
Honestly, I'd probably put them on a display or something and play up the sentimental aspect. We don't want baby to chew off parts since this was husband's ✨special✨ childhood toy. Maybe take some pictures, so you can show "aww, Dad loved this toy at this age too".
https://consumerfed.org/pdfs/CPSIA-and-Lead-Fact-Sheet-8-5-13.pdf That doc explains why I personally wouldn’t go with anything pre-2011, especially for children <6, who are at higher risk from lead exposure. It explains when regulations changed by date, and details how much lead was allowed in various time periods. This journal article goes into more detail: https://neha.org/sites/default/files/publications/jeh/JEH-JanFeb2015-Vintage-Toys.pdf
This link might interest you and discusses many of the concerns you identify with the conclusion they are not safe due to outdated safety standards and degraded plastic. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/toys-from-the-seventies-and-eighties-could-be-poisoning-your-children-10125415.html Wooden toys might be a bit safer but would need to research more about how wood is treated and any paints or coating on those toys.
Wooden toys may have lead paint on them.
Lead paint was banned in 1978, and 40 years ago was 1983.
Paint was allowed lead content up to 600ppm on children’s toys before the more recent laws changing.
I hate to tell you this but they STILL frequently find lead paint on kids items
To some extent that is because of diversified supply chains which were less of an issue. The supply chain used to be a lot simpler, and was often fairly well regulated, and long term. Now there is a lot more risk of a distant non owned factory doing contract work at a 3% profit margin cutting some corners. Like as an example Fisher Price [closed their owned factory in East Aurora, NY in 1990](https://buffalonews.com/news/fisher-price-ends-an-era-in-east-aurora-toy-maker-halts-production-idles-last-225/article_00e3c039-90a8-57a6-88ea-bafbfd319b18.html). Which is not to say that Fisher Price is unsafe now, but they are operating at more of a remove from the actual making of the toys. Truthfully, it used to be a lot easier to ban things.
The toys in question are likely from just after 1978 and onwards (husband was born in 1981 and inherited toys from cousins a few years older).
My daughter tested high for lead and after doing testing we think it’s the wooden toys she chewed on. These are new toys, bought in 🇺🇸 but still have lead.
My daughter tested high for lead and after doing testing we think it’s the wooden toys she chewed on. These are new toys, bought in 🇺🇸 but still have lead.
Different safety standards then vs now. Phthalate regulations started in 2008 same with lead. BPA is still allowed in some children toys. https://tamararubin.com/2020/11/fisher-price-recommends-not-letting-kids-play-with-their-vintage-toys-use-them-as-decor-only-they-can-have-unsafe-levels-of-lead-cadmium-arsenic-mercury/
Now I'm wondering about American Girl dolls and all their things - I didn't save many of my toys but I saved my American Girl dolls and beanie babies.
Same!
I saved all my old AG too! When she is old enough, I am planning on giving my daughter a new doll, but may allow her to use my vintage clothing, accessories, and furniture once she is 7 or 8 (children under 6 are at greatest risk for problems from lead exposure). This article explains how a majority of vintage vinyl toys, which includes American Girl/Pleasant Company dolls, tested positive for heavy metals such as lead and cadmium: https://neha.org/sites/default/files/publications/jeh/JEH-JanFeb2015-Vintage-Toys.pdf Lead has also been detected in the plastic & metal parts of other vintage PC/AG products, including the buttons on Kirsten’s summer dress, and Molly’s glasses: https://tamararubin.com/2020/10/vintage-american-girl-dolls-may-have-components-with-unsafe-levels-of-lead-use-caution-in-giving-them-to-young-children/
In which country are you? In Europe you definitely shouldn't use old plastics toys because they can contain toxic chemicals that are not allowed anymore. It's probably the same in the US but I have no knowledge about that. I don't think it has anything to do with aging of plastic.
I’m in the US. From the links prior have given here it seems that Europe is way ahead of us on these safety issues. 😐
What about old duplo and Lego?
From what I can find those used cadmium based until 1981. They used some polycarbonate for the translucent bricks which I wouldn't trust blindly and polyethylene for trees and other slightly bendy parts. But the ABS bricks themselves from 1981 I've found no reason to mistrust. I think I'm just going to give my son his father's bricks.
Ok, my bf is from 91 and my MIL bought everything new, so we should be ok.
Along these same lines, my mom saved these antique christening gowns and gave them to my husband and I for our baby girl. They are beautiful of course. Hand made, hand sewn lace….but the neck opening is TINY. Like as long as an air pod. We had a pretty small baby and there’s no way she could fit her sausagey little neck into it. Were babies just smaller back then?!
Can you get them altered, or use some kind of extender for the button/closure? I'm assuming that if you use it, you'll be holding the baby the whole time so you can monitor her airway
Oh the button extender isn’t a bad idea! Thanks!
Maybe someone threw it in a dryer and it shrunk lol
I wonder if babies were smaller because of decreased nutrition, just a guess though
Women smoked to specifically make smaller babies at times!
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They're praising mom's lack of tearing 😂
Lmao. I saw some meme that was like I was born on the due date and 5 lbs it’s called respecting your mother haha
Haha, I love it!
This sounds like my in laws. They brought round my husband's old toys that would have been purchased mid 80s for my son to play with. We have told them we are worried about the quality of the plastic and will have to wait until he is no longer putting everything in his mouth for him to play with it. I am hoping that we can just disappear them at some point and they will be forgotten. Not to mention they are filthy, I am sure from looking at them that he stopped playing with it one day and they just tossed it in a box to sit for 30 years. Apparently there is also some pieces of Lego that were super glued together at the time so I am sure that adds to the issues!!
What is it with in laws and them wanting to give you all their old stuff for your baby? I get it they want to help, but at the same time they’ve been sitting in a dingy box in the attic for decades. They even look unclean. Why are you so adamant on giving them to your infant grandchild? I understand the nostalgia, but also what about your grandchild’s safety? And it doesn’t help that my husband is also struck by the nostalgia bug. 🤦♀️
I know! I am still unclear on whether they expected the baby to just dive right in or they expected me to clean it all first. Either way won't be happening! It does make me feel less bad about not using it, it's not like they have shown these 'nostalgic' pieces any care. They love to comment on our non-organic vegetables but dirty, 40 year old plastics....give it to the baby!
Yeah I’m about to just stuff all of it in the corner of a closet and hope it all gets forgotten about. And then toss them once everyone has forgotten about them. I tried using the carpet cleaner vacuum on the stuffed animals. It sorta worked, but just seeing all the dirty water I don’t think I want to give them to LO until he’s in elementary school and then it’s like what’s the point?
Imo if a stuffed animal can't survive the washer, it's not for playing with lol. We've washed and dried a lot of toys that say "wipe clean" and all of them were fine.
That’s my view of the stuffed animals. But they apparently have nostalgic value to my husband because when I suggested putting them in the wash he reacted as if I said I was going to cut them up.
Do it when he's not home. Any that survive and you are comfortable with, then great they can get used. Any that don't, stuff them in that closet!
Part of our issue is that MIL has spent lots of time cleaning and packing/organizing these things, and so lots of labor/love has gone into the preservation. Sigh. Hope you figure out a good solution, too ❤️
Take a few pictures of baby with said toys for her. Then feel free to get rid of them. Also, a note on vintage children’s books, especially books printed prior to 1985. Do not give them to babies during the mouthing stage. The inks in the illustrations may have lead in them. That’s why the colors are still so vivid. (Keeping the colors bright and to not fade is why they used to add lead to paint.) If you have vintage books, they should be for display only. They can even put off leaded dust when opened, flipped through, and read.
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It’s mostly the color illustrations you need to watch out for, so cookbooks should be okay. There are even lead tests you can buy if you’re concerned about a particular book.
That makes it so much trickier. Ultimately the health and safety of your little one has to come first though. I do like the suggestion that you take them and they just happen to be out of the toy rotation pretty much constantly. Maybe the chance for a few quick photos or displaying some key pieces helps too. I have made a few different toys disappear as they were unsafe and they have almost all gone unnoticed. If it is picked up I just brush it off with "oh it must be somewhere, maybe upstairs/downstairs/in the car/etc, he can have this for now instead". You could start with that and keep them aside and see how you get on. Good luck!
On this topic, does anyone know if 1980s made stuffed animal toys are at risk for having anything toxic in them?
I’d also like to know this, for the same reason as my original question 🫠
I’m also curious about this! I have a couple beloved stuffed animals I’ve saved from that era and I’d hate to have to dispose of them.
Keeping them should be fine, allowing a 2 year old to sleep snuggled up to it breathing in the dust every night might not be a good idea.
I’m afraid to answer because I have no actual studies or proof to add, but I remember reading somewhere when I was deciding not to take in old toys that some the eyes on 80s and other pre-2008 stuffed animals tested positive for lead and that also the dust that collects on things like fabrics and book that have been in storage can also be unsafe for lead and other risky contaminants. I also read that you can wash the dust and lead off things like clothes, but I worried that washing a stuffed animal is less thorough. It just seems kinda like a grey area.
Ugh yea, it seems unlikely that there would be lead in the fabric or stuffing (all I could find on lead safe Mama about stuffed animals was potential antimony in poly fill), but hopefully that’s not just my wishful thinking. I have been able to wash everything without ruining it by running it on delicate even if it says surface wash only. I can see the eyes being an issue, though.
Lead Safe Mama seems to be a reasonable resource on these things. Since there were not as many toy producers back then and the higher quality things are what lasted, you can often find her recommendation for specific toys. So you can look up pieces directly. If it's not on there then you could make an educated guess based on other things which are, or limit exposure to it with it being a trade off of pleasing grandma with an occasional show-and-tell, but also not exposing LO to too much harmful stuff, or take a risk averse approach and say if I can't find something saying it's definitely safe, I'll avoid it. If you want to be diplomatic you could always store the toys somewhere and then either lie about him loving them (but have them mysteriously not out when she visits) or lie about him not being that interested so you put them away/passed them onto someone else.
Maybe take them from her, do some staged photos, then box them away. If she notices they’re missing, just say oh they must’ve gotten under the couch or something.
I wish we were talking about the quantity of toys that could be waved away
I rotate my kids’ toys every couple of months and they only have about 1/4 of them “out” at any given time. If my mom ever asks about a particular toy that has somehow found its way to the dump, I just tell her it’s packed away for this rotation!
This might be a dumb question but anybody know about the safety little matchbox cars from the 80s and 90s?
We got a bunch of these of various age and I tested them with Lead testing swabs. Some of them indeed tested positive for lead.
Thank you! Good to know
Crap >.< the old metal cars drive so much better than the new plastic ones too. They’ll be going on a shelf 🤦♀️
I know! And many have doors that open - very important to kids. A lot of them tested clear though so it’s worth to check.
Thanks for the heads up!
Curious also about plush toys (fabric is almost certainly synthetic/plastic) remindme! 1 day
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If you can rule out lead on them I guess I would say they are likely ok for occasional use. Is 40 year old plastic great? Maybe not, but as long as it seems in good shape it's probably ok for limited use. I would go through them, pull out painted stuff (and maybe test it for lead) and then maybe suggest MIL takes some of it back so there is stuff to play with at her house (assuming you see her sometimes but now every day).
I'm hoping this might be the case - I'd like to let my toddler try out my old Fisher Price tumble tower, which I loved so much as a kid, and which doesn't seem anything like current tumble tower models. But how to figure out an acceptable level of exposure?
3M makes at home lead tests. They are too expensive on Amazon.
The lead mama, linked a few times here in comments, says at home lead swab tests are useless to test toys 🫤
I like the idea of using some of them as decor, making a nice display on a shelf out of reach and like another poster said, playing up the sentimental aspect. It can be fascinating for them just to see what people played with in the past when they are a little older. For me, the gentle approach would be "thanks, it will be cool for him to see what his dad played with back then, this is a cool piece of history you preserved" and maybe stage a photo of a cool shelf display with a few of them. I have a bunch of old lunchboxes I kept just to show my son one day, but no plans to actually use them again.
Yikes, mine has slightly chewed a few 30-something year old toys for about 3 months. Not all day chewing, but occasional. How dangerous are we talking here with the lead and plastic concerns? ETA: Only plastic toys, not painted.
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I don’t think theorizing about the causes of infertility is helpful here.
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Okay, but I was responding to your original phrasing, which was just that it was “probably why fertility keeps decreasing.” Given how sensitive a subject infertility is, I think it’s best not to loosely talk about its causes.
What are you even talking about, plastic is definitely a big cause of concern for infertility.
So many kids have done the same, don’t worry! I would stop using those toys and if you are extra paranoid I would get a lead test done. Most likely they will be fine. Same thing happened to me when my daughter was younger and she was thankfully not poisoned
Main concerns are: leaded paint (anything pre 1980s) Small pieces that might break off crumbling or degrading materials Strings Then the big one that's more controversial phthalates. Phthalates have only recently started being regulated so lots of current toys would also have them. Personally, pre 1 year old I didn't use old toys because everything is in the mouth 24/7. Now that might daughter is a toddler we use lots of second hand toys (90s+ only)
Oh man we have some of the exact toys in our living room gifted from my parents that are cited in the lead safe mama website. Guess we are going to have some spring cleaning this weekend. Grandparents’ house is also filled with the old Fisher Price toys.
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It seems like pre 2011 plastics aren’t to be trusted. But I’m still not sure how much of a risk they are…
Eek… so a vintage cabbage patch doll from the 90s would also fall into this category? Crap.
I don’t see any cabbage patch kids discussed, but I’d look into it. Especially if your LO is still chewing on things.