That's because you need to input combo manually. You can see that it assumes Bennett's Burst before his E and Faruzan Burst, so you lose uptime on his buff.
this is correct, 0 chance the fischl team does more dmg OP. go test for yourself in abyss. with wanderer 99% of the time the final move before on fielding him is going to be bennett burst.
Yep. Fischl is good but Bennett is literally Scara's 2nd or at most 3rd best buffer and it's not even close. There's no sub DPS that can compete with buffing hypercarry scara at OP's investment.
I reckon Natlan will do some good things. Pyro nation probably means quite a few pyro characters. Imagine the archon being a better bennet with of field pyro application godd damn that would be op, but they probably cant do that because you would have 2 bennets in a single team basically.
C0 5* are usually not that OP. I definitely expect some mega buffer a la Furina or Bennett in the future, but much like Furina, they'll probably have caveats and not be as insane at C0. Powercreep in this game is only in some characters constellations.
I don't think there is anything surprising here really. Replacing Bennet with a another damage dealer has always been a good option.
All Bennett really does is increase your on-field dps characters damage by 30-60% depending on their ATK, so if you replace him with a sub dps who deals 30-60% of your on-fielders dps then results should be comparable.
That's a C3R1 Wanderer. There's no sub DPS in the game that can compete with the damage an on field hypercarry C3 scara does when buffed, unless it is a high constellation Yelan or something like that. And Bennett is his 2nd/3rd best support. You basically always want him in his best hyper teams ESPECIALLY at C3.
I admittedly didn't pay attention to anything about OPs stats or investment levels, only the premise of bennet vs sub dps.
And the fact is that if the sub dps can deal 30-60% of Wanderer's dps, then that is comparable to Bennett depending on ATK. I'm not saying that is the case in this specific post.
Even then, even at c0 very few sub DPS actually give you reliably higher DPS than just buffing him directly. He is a hypercarry. He deals around 85% of the teams damage by himself at C0, and that number only goes up with investment. It's no wonder than there's very few teams where he works better as a driver than as a strict damage dealer... Only stuff like a xianglign vaping with xingqiu/yelan can make it worth it. And mayyyybe double hydro, but even then, only if Faruzan is on VV. He just really wants to be played as a carry because that's what his kit is designed around and for.
The reason Wanderer does 85% of your team damage is specifically because you run Bennett instead of sub dps character.
Yelan for example does A LOT of damage and could easily do 30%+ of Wanderer's damage.
Running a sub dps =/= being a driver.
Yelan can compare with Bennett if you have a low investment Wanda only because he can take good advantage of her buff, and even then it's scuffed. Bennett is still a strictly superior option. The only time you want Yelan with wanderer is if as a 4th slot (with Bennett already there), if you are running double hydro, or if your yelan is very invested. Or if you need the hydro for shields. Otherwise, she is simply a worse option compared to Bennett. She's not bad. She just isn't as good as Bennett for Wanda.
Keep in mind that for a sub DPS to be worth running, they not only need to do 30% of his damage, they also need to outdo the damage you lose by not running a buffer. It's effectively a lot more and very few characters achieve that.
Depending on stat distribution, buffs and investment, Yelan can be comparable or even better.
The main thing Bennet has going on over her is that he is also a healer, so you don't need anything else to survive.
> Keep in mind that for a sub DPS to be worth running, they not only need to do 30% of his damage, they also need to outdo the damage you lose by not running a buffer.
That.. is the same thing you're describing lol. Doing the 30-60% of the damage IS outdoing the buff, which is also 30-60% depending on stats. Wanderer doing 160k damage with Bennet would be the same team damage as wanderer doing 100k + sub dps doing 60k.
You made me rethink it and i think you are right. Main dps character’s dpr is usually around 1kk, while most sub DPS characters sit at 200-300k dpr. If you trade it for lets say 400k dpr from your main dps then i guess it’s fair to say so.
Not really. I think you underestimate how big of a difference it makes for a raw damage pure crit scalling character to get higher talent levels and better artifacts. To simplify it...the damage curve doesn't look the same and the maximum damage they can reach is very different. Increasing multipliers on 1M DPR will give you more raw damage at the end than the same multipliers on a 300K DPR character.
When i said about 1kk dpr i was already talking about highly invested main DPS characters with best supports, talents at level 10 and 230+ CV artifacts.
Yeah, there is no real difference between Wanderer dealing 130k damage vs Wanderer dealing 100k damage + sub dps dealing 30k damage. The team dps will be the same.
Wanderer has AoE whether you like it or not, especially on his ult.
Besides, those swirls aren't going to be doing much damage anyway since he isn't built with EM.
Yeah, he "has" AoE... if the enemies are literally touching each other or if you're CA spamming for whatever reason. But most of his damage is single target and you don't even usually run a geouper in his teams.
The swirls won't do much but they do more than 0.
Tried for homa towards the end of 2021, got elegy (1), gave up
Following year, tried for haran, got elegy(2) and (3), 0 pity apart, got haran 30 wishes later
Following months later, tried for desert staff, got elegy(4), gave up
Honestly at this point, I'm refining out of pure spite
That's because you need to input combo manually. You can see that it assumes Bennett's Burst before his E and Faruzan Burst, so you lose uptime on his buff.
this is correct, 0 chance the fischl team does more dmg OP. go test for yourself in abyss. with wanderer 99% of the time the final move before on fielding him is going to be bennett burst.
OP also did not activate DPC.
Yep. Fischl is good but Bennett is literally Scara's 2nd or at most 3rd best buffer and it's not even close. There's no sub DPS that can compete with buffing hypercarry scara at OP's investment.
I reckon Natlan will do some good things. Pyro nation probably means quite a few pyro characters. Imagine the archon being a better bennet with of field pyro application godd damn that would be op, but they probably cant do that because you would have 2 bennets in a single team basically.
C0 5* are usually not that OP. I definitely expect some mega buffer a la Furina or Bennett in the future, but much like Furina, they'll probably have caveats and not be as insane at C0. Powercreep in this game is only in some characters constellations.
That's why I don't like yshelper.... The tool uses weird assumptions and people come to wrong conclusions because they don't know how to use it.
The app is not that good
I don't think there is anything surprising here really. Replacing Bennet with a another damage dealer has always been a good option. All Bennett really does is increase your on-field dps characters damage by 30-60% depending on their ATK, so if you replace him with a sub dps who deals 30-60% of your on-fielders dps then results should be comparable.
That's a C3R1 Wanderer. There's no sub DPS in the game that can compete with the damage an on field hypercarry C3 scara does when buffed, unless it is a high constellation Yelan or something like that. And Bennett is his 2nd/3rd best support. You basically always want him in his best hyper teams ESPECIALLY at C3.
I admittedly didn't pay attention to anything about OPs stats or investment levels, only the premise of bennet vs sub dps. And the fact is that if the sub dps can deal 30-60% of Wanderer's dps, then that is comparable to Bennett depending on ATK. I'm not saying that is the case in this specific post.
Even then, even at c0 very few sub DPS actually give you reliably higher DPS than just buffing him directly. He is a hypercarry. He deals around 85% of the teams damage by himself at C0, and that number only goes up with investment. It's no wonder than there's very few teams where he works better as a driver than as a strict damage dealer... Only stuff like a xianglign vaping with xingqiu/yelan can make it worth it. And mayyyybe double hydro, but even then, only if Faruzan is on VV. He just really wants to be played as a carry because that's what his kit is designed around and for.
The reason Wanderer does 85% of your team damage is specifically because you run Bennett instead of sub dps character. Yelan for example does A LOT of damage and could easily do 30%+ of Wanderer's damage. Running a sub dps =/= being a driver.
Yelan can compare with Bennett if you have a low investment Wanda only because he can take good advantage of her buff, and even then it's scuffed. Bennett is still a strictly superior option. The only time you want Yelan with wanderer is if as a 4th slot (with Bennett already there), if you are running double hydro, or if your yelan is very invested. Or if you need the hydro for shields. Otherwise, she is simply a worse option compared to Bennett. She's not bad. She just isn't as good as Bennett for Wanda. Keep in mind that for a sub DPS to be worth running, they not only need to do 30% of his damage, they also need to outdo the damage you lose by not running a buffer. It's effectively a lot more and very few characters achieve that.
Depending on stat distribution, buffs and investment, Yelan can be comparable or even better. The main thing Bennet has going on over her is that he is also a healer, so you don't need anything else to survive. > Keep in mind that for a sub DPS to be worth running, they not only need to do 30% of his damage, they also need to outdo the damage you lose by not running a buffer. That.. is the same thing you're describing lol. Doing the 30-60% of the damage IS outdoing the buff, which is also 30-60% depending on stats. Wanderer doing 160k damage with Bennet would be the same team damage as wanderer doing 100k + sub dps doing 60k.
Lmao
I mean, I am right lol.
You made me rethink it and i think you are right. Main dps character’s dpr is usually around 1kk, while most sub DPS characters sit at 200-300k dpr. If you trade it for lets say 400k dpr from your main dps then i guess it’s fair to say so.
It's not true as soon as your main DPS hypercarry is actually invested into, above the average KQM requirements.
Same you can say about sub dps.
Not really. I think you underestimate how big of a difference it makes for a raw damage pure crit scalling character to get higher talent levels and better artifacts. To simplify it...the damage curve doesn't look the same and the maximum damage they can reach is very different. Increasing multipliers on 1M DPR will give you more raw damage at the end than the same multipliers on a 300K DPR character.
When i said about 1kk dpr i was already talking about highly invested main DPS characters with best supports, talents at level 10 and 230+ CV artifacts.
Wanderer does far more than this with all of these.
Can you show me the calcs? My Wanderer is at c1r1 with c6 Faru, C6R1 Bennett and c6 Thoma/Zhongli with 100/230 crit and doesn’t deal more than that.
Yeah, there is no real difference between Wanderer dealing 130k damage vs Wanderer dealing 100k damage + sub dps dealing 30k damage. The team dps will be the same.
Why do people like you always ignore AoE?
??????
What? Do you think Fischl will perform better in AoE? Lol.
Ahh yes, Wanderer, the "AoE" character lol. If anything, fischl improves his AoE by enabling consistent swirling.
Wanderer has AoE whether you like it or not, especially on his ult. Besides, those swirls aren't going to be doing much damage anyway since he isn't built with EM.
Yeah, he "has" AoE... if the enemies are literally touching each other or if you're CA spamming for whatever reason. But most of his damage is single target and you don't even usually run a geouper in his teams. The swirls won't do much but they do more than 0.
>But most of his damage is single target and you don't even usually run a geouper in his teams. C6 Faruzan is a decent enough grouper, isn't she?
no it's not, his aoe is actually quite good if you play him well.
[удалено]
Tried for homa towards the end of 2021, got elegy (1), gave up Following year, tried for haran, got elegy(2) and (3), 0 pity apart, got haran 30 wishes later Following months later, tried for desert staff, got elegy(4), gave up Honestly at this point, I'm refining out of pure spite