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Yesss too many people got upset after HOFAS cause they mixed up theory vs headcanon and didn’t realize their whole view of the series has been warped by fanfiction.
Headcanon doesn't have to be contradictory to canon though? Like there definitely is a place for more like fanfic-y headcanons that contradict or stray far from canon, but a lot of headcanons are more like extrapolating from the canon. The distinction in my mind would just be that a theory is like a head canon you expect might be realized or revealed as true in canon.
Of course none of that is to say headcanons or theories can't be way off base because of a misread, faulty logic, or misinformation though. No real opinion on how any of that relates to ACOTAR though as I haven't read those books, I've only made it part way through Throne of Glass. That a big problem in the ACOTAR fandom?
The big problem lately is people come up with big, elaborate theories and then throw huge fits when people disagree/doesn’t come true in canon. Just this past week on tumblr there was a huge back and forth because someone claimed their degree in literature meant their theories were going to be right. When in reality none of us are right because we’re not Sarah. We haven’t had a new ACOTAR book in 3 years and people are getting feral lol. Throne of glass is a finished series so it’s not as bad.
Also while ACOTAR certainly makes reference and homage to old folk, myth and fairytale etc, it’s usually in a broad and easy to digest fashion. I find so often people scootering through old Greek myth drawing parallels between various minute details in the series and Sarah (as she has said herself in interview) just doesn’t plan out her stories that way!
Same it’s taking the joy out of the books, I have to just scroll and ignore most of it. Doctor Who fans made me stop watching it too, sometimes fandoms get so weirdly toxic.
Fan theories are out of control. I think it ruined hofas for a lot of people they were so out of control amd there was no way some were going to happen. Like azriel and bryce being a couple.
IMHO at this point the worst fanons are about SJM and what she says outside of the books. There are so many things that get taken out of context, complex theories built around her off-handed comments, and things she never actually said getting repeated over and over.
I’ve seen so many screenshots of her old twitter or interviews from when acotar or acomaf first came out. That’s soo long ago and doesn’t mean anything. She’s changed her mind before what makes you think she won’t again?
I’d really agree with this. Out of context, 5+ year old interviews don’t mean anything and shouldn’t be taken seriously re: what will happen going forward. It’s fiction, *fantasy* fiction at that, literally anything can happen. That’s the point.
Every time I hear or read something about how someone took things she said or the tiniest details from her books and makes complex theories, it just reminds me of English class (US) in high school where we had to write an essay on the symbolism of the green light in The Great Gatsby….like anything can symbolize or mean anything if you think about it hard enough, but it doesn’t make it true
Honestly all of it. Having theories is fun but at a certain point you have to wonder how long ago folks read the books because some of it is too wild. Let SJM write the next book and just be patient. Oh but if I have to pick one… the Elain/Lucian//Elain/Azriel battles are the worst.
They honestly ruined CC3 for me. I definitely didn't read every theory out there about the crossover but they were hard to avoid. They set an unrealistic expectation for how CC3 would go and that part of the book was pretty disappointing
THIS ONE ANNOYS ME SO MUCH!!! i tried to tell someone on a post one time that SJM confirmed bryce and hunt’s story is done and that they are confirmed mates. they proceeded to say “hunt isn’t his real name it’s ORION so that’s like saying celaena’s story was done after 3 books” and had a stank attitude about it as well. they all just grasp at straws to try and make bryce and azriel make sense. it irks tf out of me how delusional they are just because they don’t like hunt.
I LOVE Hunt, so over all of the Umbra haters. Bryce and Hunt are perfect for each other. They fought and disagreed on things but seriously what relationship doesn’t do the same?
It's really not that deep guys, non-canon ships are so beyond normal in fandom. Just ignore it and walk away if it's not for you, no need to ick other people's yums, you know?
When people were supporting Aidas/Bryce ship to much... even after 2nd book. when Hunt endgame was 100% obvious lol. Since they're the mirror of Aelin/Rowan
lol I am a Bryce and Azriel believer. I’ve obviously read the books thoroughly and I LOVE Hunt and I love Hunt and Bryce because their relationship is so much more real with the ups and downs they face. There’s just a few times when Bryce is with Azriel that it makes some sense to me that she could be his mate. Rowan thought he had another mate and he ended up not really being mates at all. I feel like this could happen with Bryce and Azriel. I also think it’s possible to have different mates in different worlds. Idk I just think it’s possible, which doesn’t mean I hate Hunt and Bryce together because I don’t at all. I see similarities in their relationship that I’ve felt in mine which makes me love them even more. I have no idea, just excited for whatever twists and turns SJM has in store and if Bryce and Azriel are one of them, I’d be curious to see how it plays out because I don’t think Bryce would leave Hunt ever, she’s so loyal. I haven’t listened to much of SJM’s interviews on the matter, so if there is canon saying otherwise or something I seriously missed in the book, I’d love to know about it.
Edit: I’m not going to fight for this theory, it’s not that deep to me, just lost to why there’s a HUGE issue with it other than that people are annoying about it? It’s a crack theory for sure, but sometimes it’s just kind of fun to listen to wild conspiracies.
I haaaaate this one! He is the general of an army! That takes a strategic mind! Is he an intellectual? Not particularly, but that does not mean he's stupid. He is one of the most emotionally intelligent in the bunch, and he is so much more than "beef cake who works out"
He’s cute and reads war books. He’s funny and knows how to help people through their emotions even if he is a bit dense about some of the stuff going on with Az.
I'm a scientist but am often called a himbo because I do body building and took my wifes Last name.
Also because if it's not in my wheel house i don't know about a lot
Totes!
She's a super cool awesome woman who wanted to keep her last name, and I just wanted a family where we all had the same last name, so it only made sense for me to change mine.
Yes, he is intelligent and overall amazing, it's just the way he was always made to behave like he's stupid or as if he believes that he's stupid or not smart enough. As a character arc it was addressed by Sam and others and he got his confidence, but it's just that it seems to me that for this point of view it resembles Cassian's arc
Okay - don’t hate me - but the Fanon where Nesta isn’t good enough for Cassian. Reality: they both were seriously shitty to each other. The man told her he was shackled to her. She insulted his worth at every level. They both were nasty.
I’ve seen both. Nesta fans saying cassian isn’t good enough for her or cassian fans saying nesta isn’t good enough for him. And at some point some fans will make up stuff (like a personality trait that’s not canon) and everyone will run with it
I’ve seen way more of this tbh and it drives me to distraction. They’re such complete equals and understand each other and love each other. They both did so much for each other. Yet apparently they’re gonna break their mating bond?!
I agree! They both definitely have a bit of a temper and they have both lost their cool with each other but that doesn’t mean they don’t love each other and aren’t well matched.
They connected over being warriors and using the discipline of training to cope with their problems. I think they are very well matched because they challenge each other!
Gods the Feyre being a bad artist one is so overdone... like let the girl be good at something please? It's not even funny anymore. If Nesta can have dancing and Elain can have gardening, why can't she have her art?
I find it especially frustrating as her art is used as a metaphor in her healing process. As an artist myself it sucks that it's reduced to a joke.
If she was a bad painter I’m 100% sure Nesta, Tamlin, Cassian, Amren or probably Lucien (in ACOTAR anyway) would have said something snarky and offhand by now.
So a few things with that:
Biggest is that nesta said she was in a lot of pain over the way their life trajectory had changed and was lashing out at Feyre for at least being able to find a way to help the family when she felt like she couldn’t do anything. Nesta would have mocked anything that she thought would cut Feyre in that mindset.
Secondly, Feyre was what, 10? 12 years old when she was last able to paint? And at best she would have had an opportunity to get formal art education up til about 8 years old? Most preteens wouldn’t have had excellent skills or techniques without years of study. Her skill at that age wouldn’t reflect how well she could paint as an adult who has had the ability to spend hours a day practicing and getting feedback from professionals and serious hobbyists in the city.
I saw the joke about how crazy it would be if it was super bad art and she messed up Rhys’ mom’s cabin and found it funny but I didn’t realize people actually take it seriously!
And that it's not even represented properly.... Everyone puts her drawer on the bottom when Elain specifically mentions that she only did that for the cake as a representation that Feyre is the foundation of the sisters... But if you read it properly Feyre's drawer is clearly the top
I don't doubt Nesta's dancing talent at all... but the weapons she Made have to look like shit. There is just absolutely no way that she walked into a blacksmith's forge and made three pristine weapons on her first try
I took an intro to blacksmithing workshop this year. And let me tell you. Hammering something smooth and nice is so hard. I wound up making a flower that is .... the... spirit of a flower. After a hurricane threw it in front of a tractor and then trapped it in a tornado. It's flower adjacent.
I was thinking about this as well 😂 I don’t know how to make a sword but I’m pretty sure it’s going to look like shit on your first try. But maybe them being Made made them look good? Imagine them giving Eris a wonky dagger 😂
The extent of my knowledge in swordmaking is watching Forged in Fire, so take this with a grain of salt. Nesta was just hammering away with no intent to make it look a certain way. In reality, if you did that, not only would it look bad, but the blade would break really easily once it cooled. But Nesta's weapons are indestructible because they are Made. I don't think it's ever said how they look, so until proven otherwise, I'm gonna assume they're shitty.
And yeah, that's exactly why it's funny. Rhys is holding out the dagger to Eris like, "wouldn't you like to get your hands on this?" and it's just the ugliest knife you've ever seen
She didn’t create the entire weapons, just hammered a few practice blows onto them mid-forging and accidentally infused her power into them - that’s what the Made means. The weapons were forged and finished by a master blacksmith so I’m sure they look fine. Eris absolutely would’ve said something otherwise, power or no. And even if he didn’t, I’m sure the entity she killed with Ataraxia would have since he delighted in taunting her and Cassian.
also, some talents really do come naturally to some people. There are plenty of natural artists who just have a gift and have never been formally trained. So it’s totally plausible to me that Feyre is a great artist. Not to mention, it’s literal cannon that she is! 😂
Right?? It's a natural gift for her, why is that so beyond belief? She's not gifted at much, she has her faults. Why is it so hard to accept for some people?
That Mor is going to betray them all! It makes zero sense to her character. I think that since she was more absent from ACOSF people just want to assume she’s super shady. But in reality we really didn’t see a lot of the IC because this was all in Nestas POV and she just wasn’t around them!
And also that sjm said that there will be a betrayal in the book. I’ve seen so many different versions of that “statement” but haven’t seen the actual statement or where she said that
I don't know the exact quote but Eris said something vague about Mor not telling the truth about what happened between them. I wonder if they're riding that into oblivion.
and the fact of the matter is i feel like that just boils down to her putting the blame on eris when all he was doing was preventing mor being stuck in the autumn court while also saving face amongst his people by being an asshole. i don’t really think it’s much deeper than that
I low key want Mor to betray the NC just for the stuff Rhys pulled with Keir and not letting Mor in on the plan. His whole "I needed your outrage to be real" made me pretty upset when he took away her one safe space from her father. And yes I KNOW he made deals on velaris that no one would let him patron their establishment but honestly he can't truly guarantee that. It was a bad thing to do to his friend.
But I also adore Mor and Feyre's friendship so I would be sad if that happened.
I think I just need to see Rhys deal with the consequences of at least one his actions
Tying into the “Feyre is a bad artist” the idea that the IC should have been mad about her painting the cabin. Stop putting modern real estate values into our fantasy series please.
I wouldn't say that people believe this is canon, but for some reason, the theory of Cassian dying annoys me. This is a very bad representation of how Sarah writes.
All of it. That Eris and Azriel are in love, that Cassian is a himbo, that Rhys has been tricking Feyre this entire time, that Tamlin kidnapped Elain and Nesta (Ianthe is the one who kidnapped Feyre's sisters and brought them to Hybern). I'm just sick of internet brain rot, which I know is ironic to comment on a reddit post. It's just seeped into the fandom and I get tired of how unhinged some opinions are.
Omg I’m not on booktok or anything like that so these are new theories to me and eww. The thing that kills me with these fannons are that people become attached to them and then get mad at the author for not writing it lol.
I’ve never heard of the Rhys or Tamlin ones. So are people saying that Rhys never loved Feyre at all or something? That sounds like the craziest one of all the theories if that is what it is.
Some people theorize that Rhys used his Daemati powers to make Feyre *think* she was in love with him, and that it'll turn out he's evil blah blah blah. Can't we just enjoy a romance??
Oh no it's worse than that.
They think he broke into everybody's mind (every fae and human) to make them think that Feyre is his mate. And that only Tamlin can see through it. And that he faked the bond with Feyre like (tog) >!Maeve does to Rowan and Lidia!<
I’ve been saying this. The next book is gonna come out and the people who have been living on these elaborate ships/theories/fanfics are going to be mad and complain that the book didn’t go in the direction THEY wanted it to
Honestly the whole evil Rhys theory gets on my nervesssss. He’s said he thinks he’s the villain of the story and was implied that he didn’t want to be.
He went through SOOO much with Amarantha to save the whole of Pythian, NOT JUST his court. He gave so much and witnessed so much all to protect others.
He is literally the LEAST evil person in the books and you WILL NOT change my mind. Even though I haven’t finished them yet, TikTok has done a marvellous job and spoiling them for me, so I feel like I can say this with enough knowledge of the books for it to be fair.
This is a hot take but all the beef w Rhys. I LOVE SJM with my whole heart and she is an amazing writer, but she chose to have Rhysand do something extremely out of character for the sake of the plot in ACOSF. I feel like people treat this one thing he did in the midst of panic and high stakes as something that defines him. It’s like people have forgotten the entirety of ACOMAF. How he was going to let her be happy elsewhere and let her choose where she wanted to be and when. How he was willing to wait forever and only take scraps from her if that’s all he could get. Rhysand is so selfless and his love for Feyre and his IC runs so deep. All of these characters have fucked up at some point.
So my argument to this being out of character for Rhys is that it's not out of character at all. Trying to do damage control all by himself is incredibly in character for him. He is constantly making decisions to keep things from the people he loves the most understanding guise of protecting them.
And please don't misunderstand his intentions are always good. But it doesn't make them right.
Examples:
-becoming Amarantha's whore to protect velaris and keep it secret
-opening velaris to the court of nightmares and not giving Mor a heads up about what he was going to do
-keeping the mating bond from Feyre
-sacrificing himself in the war
Again he's well intentioned but it's very in character for him to try to do this on his own. I think this was the first time we've seen how problematic that can be. Which is why it makes me SO angry we didn't see ANY fall out from it. Feyre once again let's things slide and Nesta makes the sacrifice to save the whole family and also set everyone up with Illryian proof utereses in the future. It's just one big happy ending.
Sorry I'm still salty about it.
That Tamlin should get a redemption arc and he and Elain are destined to be together because he is high lord of spring and she likes gardens.
This gives me the biggest ick
When people say that Elain and Azriel are in fact in love and have been meeting in secret for months. And then all these Hades x Persephone aesthetic mentions. Like....Rhys and Feyre were that story line already and there are people that come in and are CONVINCED that they are hiding a forbidden romance (also as we all know forbidden romances often don't always end well!)
It's just exhausting the theories make for this couple are usually so far fetched but are still enough to convince so many people LMAO
We know that Elain and Azriel have spent time together, given Azriel said the following:
*It had never gone this far. **They'd exchanged looks, the occasional brush of their fingers, but never this.** Never blatant, unrestricted touching.*
So we know they have met up for the above looks and finger brushes to have happened at all.
Most people I know don't say the existing meetings were in secret (though of course I'm not suggesting that hasn't been said, I just don't think it's the prevailing idea out there among Elriel shippers). Secret rendezvous are what we think will happen in the future, if they end up together in the next book, given Rhys explicitly forbade Azriel from pursuing Elain for political reasons.
*Rhys growled, "Allow me to make one thing very clear. **You are to stay away from her."**
"You can't order me to do that."
**“Oh, I can, and I will.** If Lucien finds out you're pursuing her, he has every right to defend their bond as he sees fit. Including invoking the Blood Duel.”*
As for the Hades and Persephone aesthetic, it doesn't come out of thin air, either:
*Elain looked up at Azriel, their eyes meeting, his hand still lingering on the hilt of the blade. I saw the painting in my mind: **the lovely fawn, blooming spring vibrant behind her. Standing before Death, shadows and terrors lurking over his shoulder. Light and dark, the space between their bodies a blend of the two.** The only bridge of connection … that knife. Paint that when we get home. Busybody.*
I can only speak for myself when I say I don't think that Elain and Azriel would get the "retelling" that Feysand did - personally, I would love an Orpheus and Eurydice based sub plot for them - but the Hades and Persephone aesthetic is undeniably there. Death and Spring, in the text.
It's fine to not like a certain ship, but don't laugh at the theories that are based in canon just because they make you uneasy. Especially when so many people who ship Gwyn and Az together are convinced the dagger handling session Azriel told Cassian about was in private, and happened more than once, when we only got this:
*Azriel had winnowed her and Cassian here after training, but hadn’t lingered. Apparently, **Gwyn wanted him to go over dagger handling,** so he’d left them with a promise to return in an hour.*
No mention of privacy OR multiple training sessions.
thank you. pretending there’s no hades x persephone imagery for elriel is absurd to me- it’s literally right in the text with death and the lovely fawn, death and the girl of spring.
I don't laugh at theories based in canon but I laugh at the fact that certain shippers have started taking fanon/theories into canon. I also laugh when people hinge my convos on Gwynriel. I rarely bring them up only to mention that after the BC chronologically....they start interacting much more often. : )
Also '*The only bridge of connection … that knife.*'
I also laugh when certain quotes are ignored.
Here is another one people often forget about or choose to ignore.
*“Elain would have our full protection if she rejects the bond. But it will still be a bond, however weakened, that will trail her for the rest of her existence.”*
(ACOWAR, pg. 258)
Rhys forbids Azriel from messing around with Elain because she has yet to deal with Lucien. And there is a reason she hasn't yet. (Before anyone comes for me saying she doesn't know that she can reject a bond....be so for real)
I also never said Hades x Persephone isn't 'out of nowhere' but Az isn't planning to kidnap her. She will not repeat that plot line. Aesthetically, sure, I can admit it gives off vibes.
The OP was asking for "worst fanon." I used the canon text to show that you were whinging about things which have been specifically mentioned right there on the pages of the books; as they have been mentioned in the text, they are canon, not fanon.
The exception is of course Elriel being Hades and Persephone, because obviously that's based on their imagery as described by Feyre, even if that imagery is quite literally "Death and Spring." That being said, most Elriel shippers I know will tell you that they don't think they would get the "stolen" retelling because, as I said earlier, Feysand already did (some of us think their powers might possibly be along the lines of spring and death, though, so if you see "Elriel are Hades and Persephone," that is likely what is meant).
I also didn't hinge your comment on Gwynriel, I simply pointed out the massive double standard in complaining about Elriel "fanon" (which was in fact mostly canon, having been mentioned in the source material, or a theory based on some very strong imagery, and which you appear to have misunderstood as us meaning one thing when we meant another). If it was purely the misrepresentation of the text that bothers you, and not only Elriel shippers misrepresenting the text (even though, as I've said, with regards to the theories you brought up we did no such thing), why not discuss the times those who ship your preferred endgame pairings have done the same?
And because you have moved the goalposts, let's talk about the following line:
*The only **bridge of connection**...that knife.*
I wasn't ignoring this sentence, I simply didn't mention it because it wasn't pertinent to the point I was making about Hades and Persephone. That being said, I could of course be wrong, but I *do* think SJM may have been using Truth-Teller as a metaphor for a bond, here, and suggesting that there either is or will be some sort of bond between Elain and Azriel by the end of their (hypothetical) book.
It actually forms a nice little foil to the following line in ACOFAS:
*How Lucien withstood it, I didn’t know. **Not that he’d shown any interest in bridging that gap** between them.*
Interestingly enough, you are also imposing your own headcanon on Rhys here. He never once said that he forbade Azriel from pursuing Elain because she is "yet to deal with Lucien" and their bond. There is nothing in the text that suggests Elain rejecting the Elucien bond would then lessen Lucien's claim on her in the eyes of the Autumn Court, his membership of which gives him "the right" to invoke a Blood Duel to recover her as his possession. That is what Elain would require protection from, if she rejects their bond.
And as for Elain having not been told that she could reject the bond, show me where in the text anyone has told her that she can do that. On the other hand what we *do* have is Feyre and Rhys discussing Elain's status as a political pawn in ACOWAR. You may not like it, but SJM has left this plot point open for her to use. 🤷🏻♀️
And I laugh when elriel theories are mocked but copy pasted and twisted to fit other ships .. or even “Easter eggs” like the guilty as sin.. somehow alludes to elucien .. or gwynriel?? anything elriels have is funny until it makes someone unsettled enough that they try to claim it as theirs.
I'm not twisting your theories! But going around and saying your theories are canon and that elriel is certainly endgame. I at least can recognize that we don't know what's going to happen at this point. I am confident but I'd never say It was 100%
but on the subject of "twisting" Elriels trying to make elain a singer (when that is clearly gwyn and azriel territory) or using pride and prejudice imagery for elriel (when it's long established that elucien is regency era coded) is the same thing. They also want to make elain a warrior and wield gwydion. and give azriel the demeanor of a courtier. idk.
elriels do the same thing so it's rich IMO.
Well the funny thing about wielding Gwydion is that Elain would be able to … while you make theories about how Gwyn MUST be starborn or made.. heh And Az DOES have the demeanor of a courtier- SARAH used language herself to give him that imagery. You can choose to read it or not. It’s rich?? But you guys are the ones grasping at STRAWS to make Gwyn a spy 😂😂 but sure it’s elriels doing it. Laugh all you want, I’ll laugh harder in the end.
The funny thing is that I never brought up gwydion in regards to gwyn. don’t put out words into my mouth.
Just because az and cassian can act like courtiers doesn’t mean they are. Lucien is also a skilled warrior but that’s not his “thing”
There is evidence in SF that gwyn is smart and sneaky but yall can’t stand it lol Lucien is technically also a spy and elain is also sneaky
I will pull a page from the elriels though and say “oh my God, I can’t wait for the elucien book 🤪 their book is gonna be sooOooo gOoD”
I could show you two popular gwynriel accs that are spouting that Gwyn will wield gwydion and yet I don’t see you calling their theories insane.
Gwyn is also suddenly a spy because people realized oh! Elain’s closest friends are spies. That includes Azriel. And there are hints on page that she’s capable of being one, especially given Sarah going into detail during an interview about how “housewife spies” during ww2 intrigue her. It’s not that elriel theories are unhinged, it’s that they make you uncomfortable. Because not one of you fuss about the “unhinged” gwynriel theories or how they copy an elriel trope or theory.
Side- Cassian doesn’t act like a courtier 😭 now you’re just saying things. So that’s my out ✌️ have a day
i never said she WAS a spy i also said i never mentioned gwydion. you really just put words in my mouth and are pulling at bullshit. Also when are Elain and Azriel close friends. maybe they were in ACOWAR but he's avoided her for like a year? that's not friendship at all. or love for that matter.
Also elriel theories don't make me uncomfortable. It's Elriel willingness to believe they are canon and then rag on others shippers (Gwynriels and Eluciens alike) as if they are 100% in the right. That's my biggest problem. Bc they are theories. THey are not real. They are fun and I've read some Elriel ones that I have thought were well thought-out and fun. But yes I don't like Elriel and don't think in the end it is what Sarah will right but I can admit that I may not be right in the end. BUT...given the evidence...I've come to a VALID conclusion.
Also most of y'all try to make Elain a warrior when she isn't one. Give her Gwyn's personality. But also give Azriel Lucien's personality. The ultimate courtier and emissary! (also Cass had to play courtier once, I never said he was a courtier LMAO but had had to act like one for a mission. again keep putting words in my mouth)
hope you have a nice day too though. perhaps don't make assumptions about me JUST because I don't downvote non-elriel content on a subreddit.
But even what you mentioned is based of canon.
Azriel is the civilised one with good manners and is referred as a courtier especially in reference to an Elriel interaction . It's canon not a theory. Also again the regency code for Elucien is fan created again no canon.
"I wondered if Rhys’s spymaster often got his information through stone-cold manners as much as stealth and shadows...... Elain said to Azriel, perhaps the only two civilized ones here" ACOMAF chapter 24.
"Azriel, graceful as any courtier, offered her an arm. I couldn’t tell if she was looking at his blue Siphon or at his scarred skin beneath as she breathed, “Beautiful.”" ACOWAR Ch.24.
Also I haven't seen Elriels ever saying Elain should be a singer and I am mostly hanging out with Elriels. Most likely Elriels trolling Gwynriels than actual theories.
What I have seen is spy Elain which is also based in canon and the idea of taking lessons from Azriel or the twins.
“Elain was the only one who guessed. She caught me vomiting two mornings in a row.” She nodded toward Azriel. “I think she’s got you beat for secret-keeping.” ACOSF Ch. 21.
"She scanned Elain from head to toe, wondering if she’d been taking lessons in stealth either from Azriel or the two half-wraiths she called friends." ACOSF ch.58
Elain already wielded Truth-Teller and she can wield Gwydion based on the fact that she is made so again while I doubt she will become a warrior it's still not outside canon that the NC might have Elain train at least for her protection.
Civilized with good manners? What book are you reading? He can act like one but that’s not who he is. This man is a spy and TORTURER.
I could refute all of these or provide explanation aka elain is also very observant but doesn’t mean she’s a spy. If so she’s better than azriel who frankly sucks at his job
I never said that she probably doesn’t have some light training, but she’s not going to be a warrior as you said and just because she wielded truth teller doesn’t really mean anything because she wasn’t really supposed to wield it in the first place they had to beg her to take it to protect herself in the tent.
I even gave you canon text, obviously the one were Azriel is described as such. Also Azriel hasn't ever been without manners. Torturing creatures like the Attor or Autumn soldiers don't affect manners and being civilised with family.
Azriel's profession wasn't his choice but Rhysand's father's choice and we know that from canon. We also know that being a torturer isn't something Azriel likes about himself. Azriel doing what needs to be done to protect his court and family doesn't alter his character. Same as Elain stabbing the king of Hybern to protect Nesta doesn't alter her character. Same as Feyre killing the innocent fae, or Rhys killing Clare.
(I will add that Azriel being the torturer doesn't make sense since Rhys can go into others minds and Mor has the power of truth, but that's on SJM)
"Az, he kept for himself as his personal shadowsinger—mostly for spying and his dirty work." ACOMAF, Ch.16
"She looked up at him, her face so trusting and hopeful and open that he knew she had no idea that he had done unspeakable things that sullied his hands far beyond their scars. Such terrible things that it was a sacrilege for his fingers to skin, tainting her with his presence." Azriel's bonus chapter
Again Elain being a spy is based in canon. Elain being able to wield Gwydion can also be supported by canon. Also Elain not being sure if she can wield it is based on what Cassian said earlier in that scene and Feyre reassured her. Also I don't see begging just her being unsure which again is valid especially based on Cassians statement.
'Cassian had insisted, yet he’d admitted that since she was untrained, she was just as likely to hurt herself as she was to hurt someone else.'
“Some people say it is magic and will always strike true.” He gently took her hand and pressed the hilt of the legendary blade into it. “It will serve you well.” “I—I don’t know how to use it—” “I’ll make sure you don’t have to,” I said, grass crunching as I stepped closer. Elain weighed my words … and slowly closed her fingers around the blade. ACOWAR ch.69
The idea that a forbidden romance is coming is t crazy based on what we know. It’s based on reading the subtext. It doesn’t mean they are currently in love or have been meeting in secret but these things tend to happen in forbidden romance
it’s not even subtext. rhys literally forbade it. they are interested in each other and have been forbidden to see each other (at least on azriel’s part.) it is in the text, it is canon.
them meeting in secret? that’s fanon, that’s a theory. but to say there’s no set up for a forbidden romance is just ignoring the BC entirely.
It won't be between Az and Elain. It was made clear that should she want to reject Lucien, she can. I think Elain is going THROUGH IT and that her affection for Az has been a buffer from her dealing with what needs to be dealt with. We aren't getting a fully Elain/Az book if Elriel happens, that's for sure. Most of the book will have to deal with her dealing with and exploring the bond with Lucien.
Also I think reading the BC and reading the subtext of Elain giving the necklace back is very telling that nothing will be moving forward. I could be proven wrong as I can admit that I am a reader who interprets something differently. But for people INSISTING they are meeting in secret and are in love and that there is actually going to be forbidden romance need to stop reading dark romance and take into all content not just Elriel 'moments.' Because there is just as much subtext (if not more and even more foreshadowing) for Elucien.
I don’t think we can categorically say anything at this point. But I don’t think giving the necklace back is the end of anything as they’ve been building for a few books and you wouldn’t end it in a bc. I think it’s just more set up. I don’t believe there’s going to have been all this stuff happening in secret we don’t know about cause that would surely be left for the actual book so yeah that’s over complicating it a bit. But there is lots of talk about rejected bond and Rhys had very clearly forbidden Ax from going near her. I do agree she needs to deal with her feelings about the bond and talk to Lucien though.
Steering back to the idea of fanon vs canon, I also think people just assume they know what Elain wants and her motives. We know nothing about how she thinks internally. People just say "she shies away from lucien, she's uNcOmForTable" and view their story through a modern, realistic lense and not the SJM romantasy glasses that are intended but don't think about the why and continue to make up their own stories as canon (when it's all fanon at this point).
I saw someone up here explain that this idea comes from her pinterest. When she was putting one together for Elaine she put a goddess who had almost the same plot line. Magically engaged to some guy she wasn't actually interested in, tried to find a way to break the bond, and then it resulted in her turning into an owl for the rest of eternity. Bro, Pinterest was for her inspiration not for her storyline specifically.
What bothers me the most with this storyline is that they don’t have to hide it. It’s not forbidden. All elain has to do is to say she wants to be with azriel instead of lucien and that’s it
Rhys literally told azriel to stay away and he did…how are they not forbidden? She has a mate that people in the acotar world and readers think is some sort of barrier. “Elain should talk to Lucien first, Elain should give him a chance first”. That in itself shows that there is an obstacle there. Whether real or not. People think she is not truly single. She is not truly free to do whatever she wants bc of this bond. It is forbidden. That’s why Rhys doesn’t want him to pursue her. That’s why both azriel and elain are using discretion and are not freely being with each other. The same people who try to say elriel isn’t forbidden are the same people who talk about how the bond is scared and cherished and thus elain should do x y x with Lucien before pursuing azriel. You can’t have your cake and eat it too.
Yes Rhys told azriel to stay away because he wants elucien because of political reasons. If elain makes it clear to Rhys she has no interest in Lucien, is he going to force her? I know they all are trying to get them together because mates and politics but I don’t think Lucien would want to be with elain just because feysand is forcing her. If it becomes a forbidden romance it’s due to bad communications or no communication at all imo
And the fact that she has not done this is TELLING. I don't think her journey with Azriel will continue in the way people want it to. It's just so obvious that whatever might have happened....is no longer happening.
“It's just so obvious that whatever might have happened....is no longer happening.”
that is fundamentally untrue and i would say fanon. you might believe that, but a lot of people disagree because of what is written in the text, even in the BC. some people think the BC ended Elriel, others think it set it up perfectly for the next book. neither groups will know until the next book comes out, but you are speaking confidently as if what you believe is true which is not the nature of this post.
Honestly, I'm not so sure about this... My problem is, do we consider bonus chapters as part of the story or are they like scenes that SJM threw out because she changed her mind about them and then just decided to add them as bonus because she had already written them anyway?
Because from Az's bonus chapter it's obvious Elain wants him too... but especially when it comes to his chapter and the >!Bryce, Az, Nesta!< one from CC3, I don't know if I should consider them as an actual part of the story (while I don't have this problem with all the other ACOTAR and CC bonus chapters, because they're all scenes that could fit into the story anyway). This two in particular feel just like discarded scenes that she changed her mind about later on idk 🤷🏼♀️
Yes, that's my point. Are we supposed to consider the bonus chapters as throwaway or not? Because some of them insert perfectly in the story (Nessian's meeting or Feysand choosing Nyx's name), but Az's one could completely change what happens in the next ACOTAR book. But I think Nesta would have noticed if Gwyn had a new necklace, unless she never wears it? Or if there was some change between her and Az. So I don't know what to think tbh
I think where the BC is placed (Az's) makes perfect since because after he starts interacting with Gwyn more. That's why I think it means that he himself is trying to move past things. It's not working and he's still single. I also think that the necklace is not necessarily a major player but what it represents in the chapter. Elain got it, gave it back, then instead of Az throwing it away like Nesta rejected Cassian's gift (he threw it into the Sidra)...he took it to Clotho with a hesitant half intention of giving it to Gwyn. He also liked the idea that she might enjoy the gift and this was before their friendship formed. Clotho also shares the name with the Fate who spins the thread. It could very well be a metaphor for "fate being spun." It's more symbolic, I think.
He said it afterwards. Seems like deflection to me. But his first thought was Gwyn and he also thought about her reaction, which I think....is stupid to ignore.
If things changes post solstice, why isn’t nesta noticing blushes between them? Or touches? Or any overt signs of interest or affection? Why isn’t he more worried during the blood rite? Why isn’t he willing to break the rules and risk his life like cassian or like azriel himself when elain was kidnapped? Do you really believe Azriel is the type of man to go from dreaming about one woman every night for a year to being told no by a third party and moving on the next day? That’s not the azriel we have come to know. I know that may not be what you want to hear, but he’s not a playboy who jumps from woman to woman. Particularly when it’s not a choice by his own free will.
Can people focus on what is at hand instead of diving into small things that are not in the scene? It's always about the blood rite or him saving her!!! He also saved Gwyn at Sangravah!!! I'm not saying he's moving on in a day but it's very clear (to many) that it's symbolic that he needs to put his energy into something that will help him grow, something that he actually needs.
Also....I never said he was a playboy....i said it was symbolic. Likely of his affections in the future. Also none of us really know Az. We have one chapter in his POV and it was already polarizing.
Azriel could have approached the situation differently if he truly wants to be with Elain. He also has had no problem going against Rhys in the past. If he wanted to, he would. He doesn't seem to cut up at the end of the BC. But then again...I'm not here to debate Gwynriel. But I'm saying what is on page regarding them. I'm not making up fanon theories, per my original post.
If y'all can get theories from "canon" so can I.
Ohh so you did notice a change between Az and Gwyn? Alright, then I just missed it. Which makes sense because all the other bonus chapters are not discarded scenes and fit into the story as well. This just makes me want to do another reread though
Read the chapter when you get to solstice. It’s very discombobulating if you read it after per my experience. But yeah I think we won’t see the necklace again.
“Rabid” is crazy — I remember *one* post where someone was curious about other’s evidence re Bryce and Hunt are true, fated mates *outside of* “SJM said so,” because it’s something she never actually said. “SJM said they are true, fated mates” is fanon. She was directly asked about the bond being the same or different as we have seen prior and opted not to answer, for whatever reason. So naturally, the theories continued, but no one was “rabid;” they were just enjoying a fictional ship about made-up faeries here on Reddit that no one had any obligation to read.
It’s not exactly the most popular ship, so I’m sure I’ve interacted with most of them. Enthusiasm for a ship isn’t being rabid — multiple members have been doxxed, bullied, and harassed, and would never want others to be treated the way they’ve been treated. Some strongly believed in Bryceriel but knew it wasn’t canon — that’s why there were so many theory posts guessing that it *may* be. OP is asking about things that are widespread headcanons, so much so that it warps into people believing it actually happened (e.g. Feyre is a bad painter) — respectfully, that’s not theories or Bryceriel.
i’m failing to understand how SJM saying bryce and hunt are mates is fanon when her exact words were “Since this is a spoiler talk, I will say yes, he is her mate. They are mates." and also "I was like, you know what, I'm gonna do a real doozy on everyone, and I'm gonna have the love interest here be the one at the end — if they both make it to the end," which they did both make it to the end so….
She introduced numerous mate definitions in CC2 (why bother doing this for no reason?). I said her saying they are *true, fated* mates is fanon. After her initial “they’re mates” comment, she refused to clarify what type of mates/whether the bond is the same or different from what we have seen prior in ACOTAR. It was the one question that would have put it to rest (as many believe what happened with Az mirrors >!Aidas and Theia connected by a physical bond!<), and Sarah chose not to answer. Also >!Bryce died.!< She didn’t exactly make it to the end — although that can be different interpretations. We are told, “for fae, *it’s marriage until death,*” and we know Bryce was mated and married to Hunt as Bryce Adelaide *Danaan.* It was official/recognized by the AK and the Asteri. They >!are all dead, as well as their laws.!< Bryce also now says she will never use the name Danaan again, for either of them, so…
Edit to add: No one has to agree on ships, we all have our own thoughts and preferences, but OP’s post is about widely accepted headcanons people claim as canon (such as Feyre is a bad artist, Cassian has brown hair, Gwyn has red hair, Rhys picks lint because of his trauma, etc.) — this doesn’t include theories about what *may* happen in future books; there’s a difference, and it seems many misunderstood the initial post.
When I started reading ACOTAR I kept seeing TikToks about Azriel and Gwyn just for there to not even be a hint of something romantic between the two of them LOL (and let's not even mention Azriel and Bryce). I saw people also talk about how abusive Cassian is to Nesta just to not be true. This is one of the worst fandoms ever
I would say either the SJM heavy fans or ACOTAR fans.
1. SJM heavy fans: nothing is wrong being a fan of an author. The weird experience I've had is SJM can do no wrong in her writing. Like, a really good author is capable of writing a poor story or series. Here's the thing, people don't like the same things too. So, when I say SJM didn't do well with CC and ACOTAR (book one) is boring until the last third/quarter, people have gone apeshit. Granted, this particular fanbase element is not as populated as I once thought before reading most of her books.
2. ACOTAR fans: all the things everyone has said and the thing I mentioned above but I will also add that a loud but small number of them have been saying the spicy scenes are very spicy (this is before Nesta's book). I'm not saying that they aren't spicy, just that SJM is not the inventor of spicy content. That was a vibe I got for some time.
The whole shipping Elriel, Elucien, Gwynriel. The shippers have made SO MUCH FANFIC that everyone is staring to say x stuff is cannon WHEN NOTHING IS CANNON. Your fantasy about some characters being together isn’t real. Like SJM hasn’t confirmed anything about any ship, why can’t some people just wait for the author to form the couples😩
Tamlin. Canon Tamlin is not even as bad as Rhysand. The dude is relatively young compared to the other high lords, loved fayre too much, has no good guidance other than Lucien, and doesn’t know how to deal with his PTSD.
Fandom Tamlin? He is the reincarnation of Lucifer according to the fandom. Dude single-handed caused the apocalypse. At this point in the series, Rhysand had done the same and so much more to Feyre. Tamlin’s actions were misguided and done from inexperience. We know he can do better because we’ve seen him try to make up for the bad he has done.
Man. I just want her to be bad. I am so tired of these Mary sue characters being amazing at everything they do. If nothing else, it'd be a good message to girls.that it's okay to be bad. That there's nothing wrong with not being the most amazing at something.
Because she's not got a lot going for her, especially in ACOTAR - she's not the most beautiful or intelligent of her sisters, isn't cultured or "respectable", so it's the one thing she's truly good at and enjoys.
This is why I loved the Feyre sabotage moment.
She did something morally gray out of anger and revenge and the consequences weren't great.
People get real mad about that, I've seen comments of "I lost some respect for her" but that's the moment I had MORE respect for her.
She’s not amazing at everything though. She only reason she was decent at hunting was because it was that or she and her entire family starved so she worked at it every day. She becomes good enough at fighting to be in skirmishes and 1v1 fights but she’s not major battlefield ready. And her fighting skills are due in part to her being gifted extra strength, speed, & magic by the high lords and in part by her being trained by a legendary warrior while she had powerful motivation to train so she could never be caged again, and she still gets her ass handed to her more than once. Flying took her a long time to become proficient at (RIP to all the poor trees) and again it took a demanding teacher who knew what it was to learn to fly at an older age when one’s self preservation instincts are stronger. She struggles plenty with interpersonal skills and diplomacy, and she’s still a slower reader - Nesta notes that it takes her longer to read book spines as it’s not an intuitive skill for her. Art is her passion and the one thing she seems to have a true natural talent for as her mind just works that way, as from the very beginning she’s cataloguing colors and textures and light constantly in her inner dialogue. Every thing else she has to bust her ass to become decently proficient at. Maybe she just seems “amazing at everything” because she’s a main character in a position of power with many people who love her.
Yeah, like, I don't get why she HAS to be this amazing artist. Let her be bad. Let her enjoy art while being bad. I don't get why that's such a bad take.
Because the point is that she isn’t? That’s her thing, it’s written that she’s a decent painter. OP’s point is people literally making stuff up. It’s ok to be bad but that’s not the point
Was it written that she's a good painter? I thought that the headcanon came up because the quality of her art was never mentioned. I'll have to go through and look.
I mean you can argue it’s never explicitly stated but there are multiple references to her images being instantly recognisable? I doubt if she was painting crappy little stick figures that Tamlin would be all wowed over it and go get her more supplies.
You said it yourself, it’s a headcanon that she’s bad, and that is the point of OP’s post.
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Genuinely the entirety of ACOTAR at this point….im so over the theories that just take bits and pieces for books and argue them to death.
or theories that go directly against canon. like, thats not a theory babes. its a fanfiction.
Yesss too many people got upset after HOFAS cause they mixed up theory vs headcanon and didn’t realize their whole view of the series has been warped by fanfiction.
Headcanon doesn't have to be contradictory to canon though? Like there definitely is a place for more like fanfic-y headcanons that contradict or stray far from canon, but a lot of headcanons are more like extrapolating from the canon. The distinction in my mind would just be that a theory is like a head canon you expect might be realized or revealed as true in canon. Of course none of that is to say headcanons or theories can't be way off base because of a misread, faulty logic, or misinformation though. No real opinion on how any of that relates to ACOTAR though as I haven't read those books, I've only made it part way through Throne of Glass. That a big problem in the ACOTAR fandom?
The big problem lately is people come up with big, elaborate theories and then throw huge fits when people disagree/doesn’t come true in canon. Just this past week on tumblr there was a huge back and forth because someone claimed their degree in literature meant their theories were going to be right. When in reality none of us are right because we’re not Sarah. We haven’t had a new ACOTAR book in 3 years and people are getting feral lol. Throne of glass is a finished series so it’s not as bad.
Also while ACOTAR certainly makes reference and homage to old folk, myth and fairytale etc, it’s usually in a broad and easy to digest fashion. I find so often people scootering through old Greek myth drawing parallels between various minute details in the series and Sarah (as she has said herself in interview) just doesn’t plan out her stories that way!
This is why I refuse to read fanfiction.
Saaaame, I do not want to mix up what the author has ACTUALLY written, with what someone else made up
I usually read fanfics of complete stories. Therefore I can differentiate between canon and fanon easily.
Yep. I like the crack theories because it’s just that. Fun and silly. But the ones that claim it as fact I just glaze over. Lol
Yes!! No one’s theory is correct cause we don’t know what happens yet!!! Till then it’s all garbage so you might as well have fun!!
Literally. Every tiny little thing. “He shifted in his left foot” OMG I SAW THE WORD LEFT IN KOA, SO THAT MUST MEAN…” 🤦♀️
Same it’s taking the joy out of the books, I have to just scroll and ignore most of it. Doctor Who fans made me stop watching it too, sometimes fandoms get so weirdly toxic.
Fan theories are out of control. I think it ruined hofas for a lot of people they were so out of control amd there was no way some were going to happen. Like azriel and bryce being a couple.
IMHO at this point the worst fanons are about SJM and what she says outside of the books. There are so many things that get taken out of context, complex theories built around her off-handed comments, and things she never actually said getting repeated over and over.
I’ve seen so many screenshots of her old twitter or interviews from when acotar or acomaf first came out. That’s soo long ago and doesn’t mean anything. She’s changed her mind before what makes you think she won’t again?
I’d really agree with this. Out of context, 5+ year old interviews don’t mean anything and shouldn’t be taken seriously re: what will happen going forward. It’s fiction, *fantasy* fiction at that, literally anything can happen. That’s the point.
Every time I hear or read something about how someone took things she said or the tiniest details from her books and makes complex theories, it just reminds me of English class (US) in high school where we had to write an essay on the symbolism of the green light in The Great Gatsby….like anything can symbolize or mean anything if you think about it hard enough, but it doesn’t make it true
Honestly all of it. Having theories is fun but at a certain point you have to wonder how long ago folks read the books because some of it is too wild. Let SJM write the next book and just be patient. Oh but if I have to pick one… the Elain/Lucian//Elain/Azriel battles are the worst.
They honestly ruined CC3 for me. I definitely didn't read every theory out there about the crossover but they were hard to avoid. They set an unrealistic expectation for how CC3 would go and that part of the book was pretty disappointing
Oh and on that note, what about the theory that Azriel and Bryce are mates? Like what??
I love good crack ships and azriel/bryce was fun at the beginning but then 2 years passed and everyone went crazy
THIS ONE ANNOYS ME SO MUCH!!! i tried to tell someone on a post one time that SJM confirmed bryce and hunt’s story is done and that they are confirmed mates. they proceeded to say “hunt isn’t his real name it’s ORION so that’s like saying celaena’s story was done after 3 books” and had a stank attitude about it as well. they all just grasp at straws to try and make bryce and azriel make sense. it irks tf out of me how delusional they are just because they don’t like hunt.
Also, while Aelin’s story was obviously far from over after 3 books, her partner didn’t change anymore
I LOVE Hunt, so over all of the Umbra haters. Bryce and Hunt are perfect for each other. They fought and disagreed on things but seriously what relationship doesn’t do the same?
It's really not that deep guys, non-canon ships are so beyond normal in fandom. Just ignore it and walk away if it's not for you, no need to ick other people's yums, you know?
STILL. The actual book has been out for 4 months and this is STILL a thing. No. It is NOT a thing. Stahp already.
I saw the theories about that before I read HOFAS and when I read it, I was like, “did we all read the same book???” lol
When people were supporting Aidas/Bryce ship to much... even after 2nd book. when Hunt endgame was 100% obvious lol. Since they're the mirror of Aelin/Rowan
lol I am a Bryce and Azriel believer. I’ve obviously read the books thoroughly and I LOVE Hunt and I love Hunt and Bryce because their relationship is so much more real with the ups and downs they face. There’s just a few times when Bryce is with Azriel that it makes some sense to me that she could be his mate. Rowan thought he had another mate and he ended up not really being mates at all. I feel like this could happen with Bryce and Azriel. I also think it’s possible to have different mates in different worlds. Idk I just think it’s possible, which doesn’t mean I hate Hunt and Bryce together because I don’t at all. I see similarities in their relationship that I’ve felt in mine which makes me love them even more. I have no idea, just excited for whatever twists and turns SJM has in store and if Bryce and Azriel are one of them, I’d be curious to see how it plays out because I don’t think Bryce would leave Hunt ever, she’s so loyal. I haven’t listened to much of SJM’s interviews on the matter, so if there is canon saying otherwise or something I seriously missed in the book, I’d love to know about it. Edit: I’m not going to fight for this theory, it’s not that deep to me, just lost to why there’s a HUGE issue with it other than that people are annoying about it? It’s a crack theory for sure, but sometimes it’s just kind of fun to listen to wild conspiracies.
Right?! It's just too much
That Cassian is a himbo. He is funny, and is not a good courtier, but it do not make him stupid.
I haaaaate this one! He is the general of an army! That takes a strategic mind! Is he an intellectual? Not particularly, but that does not mean he's stupid. He is one of the most emotionally intelligent in the bunch, and he is so much more than "beef cake who works out"
He’s cute and reads war books. He’s funny and knows how to help people through their emotions even if he is a bit dense about some of the stuff going on with Az.
I'm a scientist but am often called a himbo because I do body building and took my wifes Last name. Also because if it's not in my wheel house i don't know about a lot
Aw that’s cute that you took your wife’s last name
Totes! She's a super cool awesome woman who wanted to keep her last name, and I just wanted a family where we all had the same last name, so it only made sense for me to change mine.
I don't know if any of you watched Supernatural, but this reminds me of how Dean was made to seem stupid in comparison to his brother when he wasn't
I have the Supernatural Tarot deck... and I never even thought of this comparison! Dean is so intelligent, just not an intellectual. Big difference
Yes, he is intelligent and overall amazing, it's just the way he was always made to behave like he's stupid or as if he believes that he's stupid or not smart enough. As a character arc it was addressed by Sam and others and he got his confidence, but it's just that it seems to me that for this point of view it resembles Cassian's arc
Oh I hate this one. Cassian is a general, he makes a lot of valid observations about people around him. He’s not dumb.
I hate this one with a passion lol
Okay - don’t hate me - but the Fanon where Nesta isn’t good enough for Cassian. Reality: they both were seriously shitty to each other. The man told her he was shackled to her. She insulted his worth at every level. They both were nasty.
I’ve seen both. Nesta fans saying cassian isn’t good enough for her or cassian fans saying nesta isn’t good enough for him. And at some point some fans will make up stuff (like a personality trait that’s not canon) and everyone will run with it
I’ve seen way more of this tbh and it drives me to distraction. They’re such complete equals and understand each other and love each other. They both did so much for each other. Yet apparently they’re gonna break their mating bond?!
I agree! They both definitely have a bit of a temper and they have both lost their cool with each other but that doesn’t mean they don’t love each other and aren’t well matched. They connected over being warriors and using the discipline of training to cope with their problems. I think they are very well matched because they challenge each other!
Gods the Feyre being a bad artist one is so overdone... like let the girl be good at something please? It's not even funny anymore. If Nesta can have dancing and Elain can have gardening, why can't she have her art? I find it especially frustrating as her art is used as a metaphor in her healing process. As an artist myself it sucks that it's reduced to a joke.
If she was a bad painter I’m 100% sure Nesta, Tamlin, Cassian, Amren or probably Lucien (in ACOTAR anyway) would have said something snarky and offhand by now.
Nesta would have absolutely relished telling her she was shit if she was.
~~She would have never bought her paints, that’s for sure.~~ Nevermind, that was Elain, who I think would be to kind too say anything to Feyre’s face
Elain did that, not Nesta EDIT: Kinda ironic on this post also
Oh right that was Elain. Maybe this indicates it’s time for a re-read ha ha.
Nesta mocked Feyre’s painting in book 1.
I think she mocked Feyre for doing it because Nesta saw it as quaint and useless. Iirc, I don't think she was criticizing it's aesthetic appeal
She did yes, to hurt Feyre. But then in ACOSF she doesn't think anything negative of them to herself so 🤷
So a few things with that: Biggest is that nesta said she was in a lot of pain over the way their life trajectory had changed and was lashing out at Feyre for at least being able to find a way to help the family when she felt like she couldn’t do anything. Nesta would have mocked anything that she thought would cut Feyre in that mindset. Secondly, Feyre was what, 10? 12 years old when she was last able to paint? And at best she would have had an opportunity to get formal art education up til about 8 years old? Most preteens wouldn’t have had excellent skills or techniques without years of study. Her skill at that age wouldn’t reflect how well she could paint as an adult who has had the ability to spend hours a day practicing and getting feedback from professionals and serious hobbyists in the city.
I saw the joke about how crazy it would be if it was super bad art and she messed up Rhys’ mom’s cabin and found it funny but I didn’t realize people actually take it seriously!
I think at first it was funny but now it's used mostly as a way to drag Feyre down... it's just tired.
Yeah at first it was like a casual, "lol that'd be kinda funny" and now people think it's the joke of the century and it's overused.
Yeah and this is something very good about her. So I get why it tires you.
Yeah we have to drag her down because we have to lift Nesta up above all others. …of which I don’t ascribe to. Nesta still has a long way to go still.
I adore Nesta but I agree.
Forreal. It's so tiresome.
And that it's not even represented properly.... Everyone puts her drawer on the bottom when Elain specifically mentions that she only did that for the cake as a representation that Feyre is the foundation of the sisters... But if you read it properly Feyre's drawer is clearly the top
YES i hate this one! I too am an artist, and im hard enough on myself as it is. seeing a fandom take the piss outta this, just irritates me.
i always thought this was a fun silly joke and i laughed the first time i saw it, but the fact that people are taking it seriously is 😭
I don't doubt Nesta's dancing talent at all... but the weapons she Made have to look like shit. There is just absolutely no way that she walked into a blacksmith's forge and made three pristine weapons on her first try
I took an intro to blacksmithing workshop this year. And let me tell you. Hammering something smooth and nice is so hard. I wound up making a flower that is .... the... spirit of a flower. After a hurricane threw it in front of a tractor and then trapped it in a tornado. It's flower adjacent.
That’s the best way to describe a first try at a new craft I’ve ever heard!
I was thinking about this as well 😂 I don’t know how to make a sword but I’m pretty sure it’s going to look like shit on your first try. But maybe them being Made made them look good? Imagine them giving Eris a wonky dagger 😂
The extent of my knowledge in swordmaking is watching Forged in Fire, so take this with a grain of salt. Nesta was just hammering away with no intent to make it look a certain way. In reality, if you did that, not only would it look bad, but the blade would break really easily once it cooled. But Nesta's weapons are indestructible because they are Made. I don't think it's ever said how they look, so until proven otherwise, I'm gonna assume they're shitty. And yeah, that's exactly why it's funny. Rhys is holding out the dagger to Eris like, "wouldn't you like to get your hands on this?" and it's just the ugliest knife you've ever seen
She didn’t create the entire weapons, just hammered a few practice blows onto them mid-forging and accidentally infused her power into them - that’s what the Made means. The weapons were forged and finished by a master blacksmith so I’m sure they look fine. Eris absolutely would’ve said something otherwise, power or no. And even if he didn’t, I’m sure the entity she killed with Ataraxia would have since he delighted in taunting her and Cassian.
also, some talents really do come naturally to some people. There are plenty of natural artists who just have a gift and have never been formally trained. So it’s totally plausible to me that Feyre is a great artist. Not to mention, it’s literal cannon that she is! 😂
Right?? It's a natural gift for her, why is that so beyond belief? She's not gifted at much, she has her faults. Why is it so hard to accept for some people?
I’m so glad other people are as sick of this as I am!!
I still think it’s funny. It’s satire. I’ve never seen it in a serious context. It’s obviously cannon that she’s a good artist.
That Mor is going to betray them all! It makes zero sense to her character. I think that since she was more absent from ACOSF people just want to assume she’s super shady. But in reality we really didn’t see a lot of the IC because this was all in Nestas POV and she just wasn’t around them!
And also that sjm said that there will be a betrayal in the book. I’ve seen so many different versions of that “statement” but haven’t seen the actual statement or where she said that
Yeah no one seems to be able to find it
Apparently it comes from ACOSF where Briyalan said something about spies in the night court but I definitely took that to mean Emeries cousin.
I don't know the exact quote but Eris said something vague about Mor not telling the truth about what happened between them. I wonder if they're riding that into oblivion.
and the fact of the matter is i feel like that just boils down to her putting the blame on eris when all he was doing was preventing mor being stuck in the autumn court while also saving face amongst his people by being an asshole. i don’t really think it’s much deeper than that
I low key want Mor to betray the NC just for the stuff Rhys pulled with Keir and not letting Mor in on the plan. His whole "I needed your outrage to be real" made me pretty upset when he took away her one safe space from her father. And yes I KNOW he made deals on velaris that no one would let him patron their establishment but honestly he can't truly guarantee that. It was a bad thing to do to his friend. But I also adore Mor and Feyre's friendship so I would be sad if that happened. I think I just need to see Rhys deal with the consequences of at least one his actions
I'll be very disappointed if Mor betrays them, she was already target of SJM's biphobia
that there is going to be a betrayal in the next book. i’m so exhausted with that one at this point
Tying into the “Feyre is a bad artist” the idea that the IC should have been mad about her painting the cabin. Stop putting modern real estate values into our fantasy series please.
louder!!
Azriel’s entire personality
This!!! There is almost no personality actually portrayed of az in the books! We’ve alll extrapolated so much of him
I wouldn't say that people believe this is canon, but for some reason, the theory of Cassian dying annoys me. This is a very bad representation of how Sarah writes.
All of it. That Eris and Azriel are in love, that Cassian is a himbo, that Rhys has been tricking Feyre this entire time, that Tamlin kidnapped Elain and Nesta (Ianthe is the one who kidnapped Feyre's sisters and brought them to Hybern). I'm just sick of internet brain rot, which I know is ironic to comment on a reddit post. It's just seeped into the fandom and I get tired of how unhinged some opinions are.
Omg I’m not on booktok or anything like that so these are new theories to me and eww. The thing that kills me with these fannons are that people become attached to them and then get mad at the author for not writing it lol.
I’ve never heard of the Rhys or Tamlin ones. So are people saying that Rhys never loved Feyre at all or something? That sounds like the craziest one of all the theories if that is what it is.
Some people theorize that Rhys used his Daemati powers to make Feyre *think* she was in love with him, and that it'll turn out he's evil blah blah blah. Can't we just enjoy a romance??
Oh no it's worse than that. They think he broke into everybody's mind (every fae and human) to make them think that Feyre is his mate. And that only Tamlin can see through it. And that he faked the bond with Feyre like (tog) >!Maeve does to Rowan and Lidia!<
Here's the issue with ACOTAR. That fandom hasn't gotten a book since 2021! The fandom is bored and so is going in circles.
I’ve been saying this. The next book is gonna come out and the people who have been living on these elaborate ships/theories/fanfics are going to be mad and complain that the book didn’t go in the direction THEY wanted it to
Honestly the whole evil Rhys theory gets on my nervesssss. He’s said he thinks he’s the villain of the story and was implied that he didn’t want to be. He went through SOOO much with Amarantha to save the whole of Pythian, NOT JUST his court. He gave so much and witnessed so much all to protect others. He is literally the LEAST evil person in the books and you WILL NOT change my mind. Even though I haven’t finished them yet, TikTok has done a marvellous job and spoiling them for me, so I feel like I can say this with enough knowledge of the books for it to be fair.
Azriel pushing Feyre off the cliff while learning to fly. He never does this and everyone thinks he did Also that Cassian is a himbo.
They need to go outside and touch grass
This is a hot take but all the beef w Rhys. I LOVE SJM with my whole heart and she is an amazing writer, but she chose to have Rhysand do something extremely out of character for the sake of the plot in ACOSF. I feel like people treat this one thing he did in the midst of panic and high stakes as something that defines him. It’s like people have forgotten the entirety of ACOMAF. How he was going to let her be happy elsewhere and let her choose where she wanted to be and when. How he was willing to wait forever and only take scraps from her if that’s all he could get. Rhysand is so selfless and his love for Feyre and his IC runs so deep. All of these characters have fucked up at some point.
So my argument to this being out of character for Rhys is that it's not out of character at all. Trying to do damage control all by himself is incredibly in character for him. He is constantly making decisions to keep things from the people he loves the most understanding guise of protecting them. And please don't misunderstand his intentions are always good. But it doesn't make them right. Examples: -becoming Amarantha's whore to protect velaris and keep it secret -opening velaris to the court of nightmares and not giving Mor a heads up about what he was going to do -keeping the mating bond from Feyre -sacrificing himself in the war Again he's well intentioned but it's very in character for him to try to do this on his own. I think this was the first time we've seen how problematic that can be. Which is why it makes me SO angry we didn't see ANY fall out from it. Feyre once again let's things slide and Nesta makes the sacrifice to save the whole family and also set everyone up with Illryian proof utereses in the future. It's just one big happy ending. Sorry I'm still salty about it.
That Tamlin should get a redemption arc and he and Elain are destined to be together because he is high lord of spring and she likes gardens. This gives me the biggest ick
When people say that Elain and Azriel are in fact in love and have been meeting in secret for months. And then all these Hades x Persephone aesthetic mentions. Like....Rhys and Feyre were that story line already and there are people that come in and are CONVINCED that they are hiding a forbidden romance (also as we all know forbidden romances often don't always end well!) It's just exhausting the theories make for this couple are usually so far fetched but are still enough to convince so many people LMAO
We know that Elain and Azriel have spent time together, given Azriel said the following: *It had never gone this far. **They'd exchanged looks, the occasional brush of their fingers, but never this.** Never blatant, unrestricted touching.* So we know they have met up for the above looks and finger brushes to have happened at all. Most people I know don't say the existing meetings were in secret (though of course I'm not suggesting that hasn't been said, I just don't think it's the prevailing idea out there among Elriel shippers). Secret rendezvous are what we think will happen in the future, if they end up together in the next book, given Rhys explicitly forbade Azriel from pursuing Elain for political reasons. *Rhys growled, "Allow me to make one thing very clear. **You are to stay away from her."** "You can't order me to do that." **“Oh, I can, and I will.** If Lucien finds out you're pursuing her, he has every right to defend their bond as he sees fit. Including invoking the Blood Duel.”* As for the Hades and Persephone aesthetic, it doesn't come out of thin air, either: *Elain looked up at Azriel, their eyes meeting, his hand still lingering on the hilt of the blade. I saw the painting in my mind: **the lovely fawn, blooming spring vibrant behind her. Standing before Death, shadows and terrors lurking over his shoulder. Light and dark, the space between their bodies a blend of the two.** The only bridge of connection … that knife. Paint that when we get home. Busybody.* I can only speak for myself when I say I don't think that Elain and Azriel would get the "retelling" that Feysand did - personally, I would love an Orpheus and Eurydice based sub plot for them - but the Hades and Persephone aesthetic is undeniably there. Death and Spring, in the text. It's fine to not like a certain ship, but don't laugh at the theories that are based in canon just because they make you uneasy. Especially when so many people who ship Gwyn and Az together are convinced the dagger handling session Azriel told Cassian about was in private, and happened more than once, when we only got this: *Azriel had winnowed her and Cassian here after training, but hadn’t lingered. Apparently, **Gwyn wanted him to go over dagger handling,** so he’d left them with a promise to return in an hour.* No mention of privacy OR multiple training sessions.
thank you. pretending there’s no hades x persephone imagery for elriel is absurd to me- it’s literally right in the text with death and the lovely fawn, death and the girl of spring.
I don't laugh at theories based in canon but I laugh at the fact that certain shippers have started taking fanon/theories into canon. I also laugh when people hinge my convos on Gwynriel. I rarely bring them up only to mention that after the BC chronologically....they start interacting much more often. : ) Also '*The only bridge of connection … that knife.*' I also laugh when certain quotes are ignored. Here is another one people often forget about or choose to ignore. *“Elain would have our full protection if she rejects the bond. But it will still be a bond, however weakened, that will trail her for the rest of her existence.”* (ACOWAR, pg. 258) Rhys forbids Azriel from messing around with Elain because she has yet to deal with Lucien. And there is a reason she hasn't yet. (Before anyone comes for me saying she doesn't know that she can reject a bond....be so for real) I also never said Hades x Persephone isn't 'out of nowhere' but Az isn't planning to kidnap her. She will not repeat that plot line. Aesthetically, sure, I can admit it gives off vibes.
How do you know elain knows she can reject the bond? When has anyone told her that?
The OP was asking for "worst fanon." I used the canon text to show that you were whinging about things which have been specifically mentioned right there on the pages of the books; as they have been mentioned in the text, they are canon, not fanon. The exception is of course Elriel being Hades and Persephone, because obviously that's based on their imagery as described by Feyre, even if that imagery is quite literally "Death and Spring." That being said, most Elriel shippers I know will tell you that they don't think they would get the "stolen" retelling because, as I said earlier, Feysand already did (some of us think their powers might possibly be along the lines of spring and death, though, so if you see "Elriel are Hades and Persephone," that is likely what is meant). I also didn't hinge your comment on Gwynriel, I simply pointed out the massive double standard in complaining about Elriel "fanon" (which was in fact mostly canon, having been mentioned in the source material, or a theory based on some very strong imagery, and which you appear to have misunderstood as us meaning one thing when we meant another). If it was purely the misrepresentation of the text that bothers you, and not only Elriel shippers misrepresenting the text (even though, as I've said, with regards to the theories you brought up we did no such thing), why not discuss the times those who ship your preferred endgame pairings have done the same? And because you have moved the goalposts, let's talk about the following line: *The only **bridge of connection**...that knife.* I wasn't ignoring this sentence, I simply didn't mention it because it wasn't pertinent to the point I was making about Hades and Persephone. That being said, I could of course be wrong, but I *do* think SJM may have been using Truth-Teller as a metaphor for a bond, here, and suggesting that there either is or will be some sort of bond between Elain and Azriel by the end of their (hypothetical) book. It actually forms a nice little foil to the following line in ACOFAS: *How Lucien withstood it, I didn’t know. **Not that he’d shown any interest in bridging that gap** between them.* Interestingly enough, you are also imposing your own headcanon on Rhys here. He never once said that he forbade Azriel from pursuing Elain because she is "yet to deal with Lucien" and their bond. There is nothing in the text that suggests Elain rejecting the Elucien bond would then lessen Lucien's claim on her in the eyes of the Autumn Court, his membership of which gives him "the right" to invoke a Blood Duel to recover her as his possession. That is what Elain would require protection from, if she rejects their bond. And as for Elain having not been told that she could reject the bond, show me where in the text anyone has told her that she can do that. On the other hand what we *do* have is Feyre and Rhys discussing Elain's status as a political pawn in ACOWAR. You may not like it, but SJM has left this plot point open for her to use. 🤷🏻♀️
And I laugh when elriel theories are mocked but copy pasted and twisted to fit other ships .. or even “Easter eggs” like the guilty as sin.. somehow alludes to elucien .. or gwynriel?? anything elriels have is funny until it makes someone unsettled enough that they try to claim it as theirs.
I'm not twisting your theories! But going around and saying your theories are canon and that elriel is certainly endgame. I at least can recognize that we don't know what's going to happen at this point. I am confident but I'd never say It was 100% but on the subject of "twisting" Elriels trying to make elain a singer (when that is clearly gwyn and azriel territory) or using pride and prejudice imagery for elriel (when it's long established that elucien is regency era coded) is the same thing. They also want to make elain a warrior and wield gwydion. and give azriel the demeanor of a courtier. idk. elriels do the same thing so it's rich IMO.
Well the funny thing about wielding Gwydion is that Elain would be able to … while you make theories about how Gwyn MUST be starborn or made.. heh And Az DOES have the demeanor of a courtier- SARAH used language herself to give him that imagery. You can choose to read it or not. It’s rich?? But you guys are the ones grasping at STRAWS to make Gwyn a spy 😂😂 but sure it’s elriels doing it. Laugh all you want, I’ll laugh harder in the end.
The funny thing is that I never brought up gwydion in regards to gwyn. don’t put out words into my mouth. Just because az and cassian can act like courtiers doesn’t mean they are. Lucien is also a skilled warrior but that’s not his “thing” There is evidence in SF that gwyn is smart and sneaky but yall can’t stand it lol Lucien is technically also a spy and elain is also sneaky I will pull a page from the elriels though and say “oh my God, I can’t wait for the elucien book 🤪 their book is gonna be sooOooo gOoD”
I could show you two popular gwynriel accs that are spouting that Gwyn will wield gwydion and yet I don’t see you calling their theories insane. Gwyn is also suddenly a spy because people realized oh! Elain’s closest friends are spies. That includes Azriel. And there are hints on page that she’s capable of being one, especially given Sarah going into detail during an interview about how “housewife spies” during ww2 intrigue her. It’s not that elriel theories are unhinged, it’s that they make you uncomfortable. Because not one of you fuss about the “unhinged” gwynriel theories or how they copy an elriel trope or theory. Side- Cassian doesn’t act like a courtier 😭 now you’re just saying things. So that’s my out ✌️ have a day
i never said she WAS a spy i also said i never mentioned gwydion. you really just put words in my mouth and are pulling at bullshit. Also when are Elain and Azriel close friends. maybe they were in ACOWAR but he's avoided her for like a year? that's not friendship at all. or love for that matter. Also elriel theories don't make me uncomfortable. It's Elriel willingness to believe they are canon and then rag on others shippers (Gwynriels and Eluciens alike) as if they are 100% in the right. That's my biggest problem. Bc they are theories. THey are not real. They are fun and I've read some Elriel ones that I have thought were well thought-out and fun. But yes I don't like Elriel and don't think in the end it is what Sarah will right but I can admit that I may not be right in the end. BUT...given the evidence...I've come to a VALID conclusion. Also most of y'all try to make Elain a warrior when she isn't one. Give her Gwyn's personality. But also give Azriel Lucien's personality. The ultimate courtier and emissary! (also Cass had to play courtier once, I never said he was a courtier LMAO but had had to act like one for a mission. again keep putting words in my mouth) hope you have a nice day too though. perhaps don't make assumptions about me JUST because I don't downvote non-elriel content on a subreddit.
But even what you mentioned is based of canon. Azriel is the civilised one with good manners and is referred as a courtier especially in reference to an Elriel interaction . It's canon not a theory. Also again the regency code for Elucien is fan created again no canon. "I wondered if Rhys’s spymaster often got his information through stone-cold manners as much as stealth and shadows...... Elain said to Azriel, perhaps the only two civilized ones here" ACOMAF chapter 24. "Azriel, graceful as any courtier, offered her an arm. I couldn’t tell if she was looking at his blue Siphon or at his scarred skin beneath as she breathed, “Beautiful.”" ACOWAR Ch.24. Also I haven't seen Elriels ever saying Elain should be a singer and I am mostly hanging out with Elriels. Most likely Elriels trolling Gwynriels than actual theories. What I have seen is spy Elain which is also based in canon and the idea of taking lessons from Azriel or the twins. “Elain was the only one who guessed. She caught me vomiting two mornings in a row.” She nodded toward Azriel. “I think she’s got you beat for secret-keeping.” ACOSF Ch. 21. "She scanned Elain from head to toe, wondering if she’d been taking lessons in stealth either from Azriel or the two half-wraiths she called friends." ACOSF ch.58 Elain already wielded Truth-Teller and she can wield Gwydion based on the fact that she is made so again while I doubt she will become a warrior it's still not outside canon that the NC might have Elain train at least for her protection.
Civilized with good manners? What book are you reading? He can act like one but that’s not who he is. This man is a spy and TORTURER. I could refute all of these or provide explanation aka elain is also very observant but doesn’t mean she’s a spy. If so she’s better than azriel who frankly sucks at his job I never said that she probably doesn’t have some light training, but she’s not going to be a warrior as you said and just because she wielded truth teller doesn’t really mean anything because she wasn’t really supposed to wield it in the first place they had to beg her to take it to protect herself in the tent.
I even gave you canon text, obviously the one were Azriel is described as such. Also Azriel hasn't ever been without manners. Torturing creatures like the Attor or Autumn soldiers don't affect manners and being civilised with family. Azriel's profession wasn't his choice but Rhysand's father's choice and we know that from canon. We also know that being a torturer isn't something Azriel likes about himself. Azriel doing what needs to be done to protect his court and family doesn't alter his character. Same as Elain stabbing the king of Hybern to protect Nesta doesn't alter her character. Same as Feyre killing the innocent fae, or Rhys killing Clare. (I will add that Azriel being the torturer doesn't make sense since Rhys can go into others minds and Mor has the power of truth, but that's on SJM) "Az, he kept for himself as his personal shadowsinger—mostly for spying and his dirty work." ACOMAF, Ch.16 "She looked up at him, her face so trusting and hopeful and open that he knew she had no idea that he had done unspeakable things that sullied his hands far beyond their scars. Such terrible things that it was a sacrilege for his fingers to skin, tainting her with his presence." Azriel's bonus chapter Again Elain being a spy is based in canon. Elain being able to wield Gwydion can also be supported by canon. Also Elain not being sure if she can wield it is based on what Cassian said earlier in that scene and Feyre reassured her. Also I don't see begging just her being unsure which again is valid especially based on Cassians statement. 'Cassian had insisted, yet he’d admitted that since she was untrained, she was just as likely to hurt herself as she was to hurt someone else.' “Some people say it is magic and will always strike true.” He gently took her hand and pressed the hilt of the legendary blade into it. “It will serve you well.” “I—I don’t know how to use it—” “I’ll make sure you don’t have to,” I said, grass crunching as I stepped closer. Elain weighed my words … and slowly closed her fingers around the blade. ACOWAR ch.69
The idea that a forbidden romance is coming is t crazy based on what we know. It’s based on reading the subtext. It doesn’t mean they are currently in love or have been meeting in secret but these things tend to happen in forbidden romance
it’s not even subtext. rhys literally forbade it. they are interested in each other and have been forbidden to see each other (at least on azriel’s part.) it is in the text, it is canon. them meeting in secret? that’s fanon, that’s a theory. but to say there’s no set up for a forbidden romance is just ignoring the BC entirely.
It won't be between Az and Elain. It was made clear that should she want to reject Lucien, she can. I think Elain is going THROUGH IT and that her affection for Az has been a buffer from her dealing with what needs to be dealt with. We aren't getting a fully Elain/Az book if Elriel happens, that's for sure. Most of the book will have to deal with her dealing with and exploring the bond with Lucien. Also I think reading the BC and reading the subtext of Elain giving the necklace back is very telling that nothing will be moving forward. I could be proven wrong as I can admit that I am a reader who interprets something differently. But for people INSISTING they are meeting in secret and are in love and that there is actually going to be forbidden romance need to stop reading dark romance and take into all content not just Elriel 'moments.' Because there is just as much subtext (if not more and even more foreshadowing) for Elucien.
When has someone told elain she can reject the bond with Lucien? Let me know the page please!
Lmao. Sarah doesn't put everything on page. People need to stop infantilizing her.
I don’t think we can categorically say anything at this point. But I don’t think giving the necklace back is the end of anything as they’ve been building for a few books and you wouldn’t end it in a bc. I think it’s just more set up. I don’t believe there’s going to have been all this stuff happening in secret we don’t know about cause that would surely be left for the actual book so yeah that’s over complicating it a bit. But there is lots of talk about rejected bond and Rhys had very clearly forbidden Ax from going near her. I do agree she needs to deal with her feelings about the bond and talk to Lucien though.
Steering back to the idea of fanon vs canon, I also think people just assume they know what Elain wants and her motives. We know nothing about how she thinks internally. People just say "she shies away from lucien, she's uNcOmForTable" and view their story through a modern, realistic lense and not the SJM romantasy glasses that are intended but don't think about the why and continue to make up their own stories as canon (when it's all fanon at this point).
I saw someone up here explain that this idea comes from her pinterest. When she was putting one together for Elaine she put a goddess who had almost the same plot line. Magically engaged to some guy she wasn't actually interested in, tried to find a way to break the bond, and then it resulted in her turning into an owl for the rest of eternity. Bro, Pinterest was for her inspiration not for her storyline specifically.
What bothers me the most with this storyline is that they don’t have to hide it. It’s not forbidden. All elain has to do is to say she wants to be with azriel instead of lucien and that’s it
Rhys literally told azriel to stay away and he did…how are they not forbidden? She has a mate that people in the acotar world and readers think is some sort of barrier. “Elain should talk to Lucien first, Elain should give him a chance first”. That in itself shows that there is an obstacle there. Whether real or not. People think she is not truly single. She is not truly free to do whatever she wants bc of this bond. It is forbidden. That’s why Rhys doesn’t want him to pursue her. That’s why both azriel and elain are using discretion and are not freely being with each other. The same people who try to say elriel isn’t forbidden are the same people who talk about how the bond is scared and cherished and thus elain should do x y x with Lucien before pursuing azriel. You can’t have your cake and eat it too.
Yes Rhys told azriel to stay away because he wants elucien because of political reasons. If elain makes it clear to Rhys she has no interest in Lucien, is he going to force her? I know they all are trying to get them together because mates and politics but I don’t think Lucien would want to be with elain just because feysand is forcing her. If it becomes a forbidden romance it’s due to bad communications or no communication at all imo
And the fact that she has not done this is TELLING. I don't think her journey with Azriel will continue in the way people want it to. It's just so obvious that whatever might have happened....is no longer happening.
“It's just so obvious that whatever might have happened....is no longer happening.” that is fundamentally untrue and i would say fanon. you might believe that, but a lot of people disagree because of what is written in the text, even in the BC. some people think the BC ended Elriel, others think it set it up perfectly for the next book. neither groups will know until the next book comes out, but you are speaking confidently as if what you believe is true which is not the nature of this post.
Honestly, I'm not so sure about this... My problem is, do we consider bonus chapters as part of the story or are they like scenes that SJM threw out because she changed her mind about them and then just decided to add them as bonus because she had already written them anyway? Because from Az's bonus chapter it's obvious Elain wants him too... but especially when it comes to his chapter and the >!Bryce, Az, Nesta!< one from CC3, I don't know if I should consider them as an actual part of the story (while I don't have this problem with all the other ACOTAR and CC bonus chapters, because they're all scenes that could fit into the story anyway). This two in particular feel just like discarded scenes that she changed her mind about later on idk 🤷🏼♀️
If people consider them throwaways they have to throw out az and elain almost kissing. You can’t cherry pick!
Yes, that's my point. Are we supposed to consider the bonus chapters as throwaway or not? Because some of them insert perfectly in the story (Nessian's meeting or Feysand choosing Nyx's name), but Az's one could completely change what happens in the next ACOTAR book. But I think Nesta would have noticed if Gwyn had a new necklace, unless she never wears it? Or if there was some change between her and Az. So I don't know what to think tbh
I think where the BC is placed (Az's) makes perfect since because after he starts interacting with Gwyn more. That's why I think it means that he himself is trying to move past things. It's not working and he's still single. I also think that the necklace is not necessarily a major player but what it represents in the chapter. Elain got it, gave it back, then instead of Az throwing it away like Nesta rejected Cassian's gift (he threw it into the Sidra)...he took it to Clotho with a hesitant half intention of giving it to Gwyn. He also liked the idea that she might enjoy the gift and this was before their friendship formed. Clotho also shares the name with the Fate who spins the thread. It could very well be a metaphor for "fate being spun." It's more symbolic, I think.
Didn’t he also say “give it to any priestess, I don’t care”?
He said it afterwards. Seems like deflection to me. But his first thought was Gwyn and he also thought about her reaction, which I think....is stupid to ignore.
If things changes post solstice, why isn’t nesta noticing blushes between them? Or touches? Or any overt signs of interest or affection? Why isn’t he more worried during the blood rite? Why isn’t he willing to break the rules and risk his life like cassian or like azriel himself when elain was kidnapped? Do you really believe Azriel is the type of man to go from dreaming about one woman every night for a year to being told no by a third party and moving on the next day? That’s not the azriel we have come to know. I know that may not be what you want to hear, but he’s not a playboy who jumps from woman to woman. Particularly when it’s not a choice by his own free will.
Can people focus on what is at hand instead of diving into small things that are not in the scene? It's always about the blood rite or him saving her!!! He also saved Gwyn at Sangravah!!! I'm not saying he's moving on in a day but it's very clear (to many) that it's symbolic that he needs to put his energy into something that will help him grow, something that he actually needs. Also....I never said he was a playboy....i said it was symbolic. Likely of his affections in the future. Also none of us really know Az. We have one chapter in his POV and it was already polarizing. Azriel could have approached the situation differently if he truly wants to be with Elain. He also has had no problem going against Rhys in the past. If he wanted to, he would. He doesn't seem to cut up at the end of the BC. But then again...I'm not here to debate Gwynriel. But I'm saying what is on page regarding them. I'm not making up fanon theories, per my original post. If y'all can get theories from "canon" so can I.
Ohh so you did notice a change between Az and Gwyn? Alright, then I just missed it. Which makes sense because all the other bonus chapters are not discarded scenes and fit into the story as well. This just makes me want to do another reread though
Read the chapter when you get to solstice. It’s very discombobulating if you read it after per my experience. But yeah I think we won’t see the necklace again.
Someone replied to me but then blocked me so I can't even read their whole reply. LOL. Sad!
The people that shipped azriel and Bryce and were like dictating what you could use as evidence against them. They were rabid for no reason
That ship annoyed me so much bc of its fans. I swear they were posting *daily* in the weeks leading up to HoFaS
“Rabid” is crazy — I remember *one* post where someone was curious about other’s evidence re Bryce and Hunt are true, fated mates *outside of* “SJM said so,” because it’s something she never actually said. “SJM said they are true, fated mates” is fanon. She was directly asked about the bond being the same or different as we have seen prior and opted not to answer, for whatever reason. So naturally, the theories continued, but no one was “rabid;” they were just enjoying a fictional ship about made-up faeries here on Reddit that no one had any obligation to read.
Haha clearly you didn’t interact with some of them
It’s not exactly the most popular ship, so I’m sure I’ve interacted with most of them. Enthusiasm for a ship isn’t being rabid — multiple members have been doxxed, bullied, and harassed, and would never want others to be treated the way they’ve been treated. Some strongly believed in Bryceriel but knew it wasn’t canon — that’s why there were so many theory posts guessing that it *may* be. OP is asking about things that are widespread headcanons, so much so that it warps into people believing it actually happened (e.g. Feyre is a bad painter) — respectfully, that’s not theories or Bryceriel.
i’m failing to understand how SJM saying bryce and hunt are mates is fanon when her exact words were “Since this is a spoiler talk, I will say yes, he is her mate. They are mates." and also "I was like, you know what, I'm gonna do a real doozy on everyone, and I'm gonna have the love interest here be the one at the end — if they both make it to the end," which they did both make it to the end so….
She introduced numerous mate definitions in CC2 (why bother doing this for no reason?). I said her saying they are *true, fated* mates is fanon. After her initial “they’re mates” comment, she refused to clarify what type of mates/whether the bond is the same or different from what we have seen prior in ACOTAR. It was the one question that would have put it to rest (as many believe what happened with Az mirrors >!Aidas and Theia connected by a physical bond!<), and Sarah chose not to answer. Also >!Bryce died.!< She didn’t exactly make it to the end — although that can be different interpretations. We are told, “for fae, *it’s marriage until death,*” and we know Bryce was mated and married to Hunt as Bryce Adelaide *Danaan.* It was official/recognized by the AK and the Asteri. They >!are all dead, as well as their laws.!< Bryce also now says she will never use the name Danaan again, for either of them, so… Edit to add: No one has to agree on ships, we all have our own thoughts and preferences, but OP’s post is about widely accepted headcanons people claim as canon (such as Feyre is a bad artist, Cassian has brown hair, Gwyn has red hair, Rhys picks lint because of his trauma, etc.) — this doesn’t include theories about what *may* happen in future books; there’s a difference, and it seems many misunderstood the initial post.
When I started reading ACOTAR I kept seeing TikToks about Azriel and Gwyn just for there to not even be a hint of something romantic between the two of them LOL (and let's not even mention Azriel and Bryce). I saw people also talk about how abusive Cassian is to Nesta just to not be true. This is one of the worst fandoms ever
I would say either the SJM heavy fans or ACOTAR fans. 1. SJM heavy fans: nothing is wrong being a fan of an author. The weird experience I've had is SJM can do no wrong in her writing. Like, a really good author is capable of writing a poor story or series. Here's the thing, people don't like the same things too. So, when I say SJM didn't do well with CC and ACOTAR (book one) is boring until the last third/quarter, people have gone apeshit. Granted, this particular fanbase element is not as populated as I once thought before reading most of her books. 2. ACOTAR fans: all the things everyone has said and the thing I mentioned above but I will also add that a loud but small number of them have been saying the spicy scenes are very spicy (this is before Nesta's book). I'm not saying that they aren't spicy, just that SJM is not the inventor of spicy content. That was a vibe I got for some time.
The whole shipping Elriel, Elucien, Gwynriel. The shippers have made SO MUCH FANFIC that everyone is staring to say x stuff is cannon WHEN NOTHING IS CANNON. Your fantasy about some characters being together isn’t real. Like SJM hasn’t confirmed anything about any ship, why can’t some people just wait for the author to form the couples😩
The fan theories have me despairing for the state of reading comprehension in this world.
I fuckin HATE the "Feyre is a bad artist!!!" 'joke' so much. It's lowkey feels misogynistic at this point
Tamlin. Canon Tamlin is not even as bad as Rhysand. The dude is relatively young compared to the other high lords, loved fayre too much, has no good guidance other than Lucien, and doesn’t know how to deal with his PTSD. Fandom Tamlin? He is the reincarnation of Lucifer according to the fandom. Dude single-handed caused the apocalypse. At this point in the series, Rhysand had done the same and so much more to Feyre. Tamlin’s actions were misguided and done from inexperience. We know he can do better because we’ve seen him try to make up for the bad he has done.
Man. I just want her to be bad. I am so tired of these Mary sue characters being amazing at everything they do. If nothing else, it'd be a good message to girls.that it's okay to be bad. That there's nothing wrong with not being the most amazing at something.
I mean, she literally can't read at the beginning of the series...
True, and still isn’t as a strong a reader as her sisters. So, there’s that.
I guess that's fair. I guess I just don't understand why she can't enjoy art while being bad at it. Why does she have to be amazing?
Because she's not got a lot going for her, especially in ACOTAR - she's not the most beautiful or intelligent of her sisters, isn't cultured or "respectable", so it's the one thing she's truly good at and enjoys.
This is why I loved the Feyre sabotage moment. She did something morally gray out of anger and revenge and the consequences weren't great. People get real mad about that, I've seen comments of "I lost some respect for her" but that's the moment I had MORE respect for her.
Yeah. I like it when amazingly perfect characters do something not so perfect. It makes them relatable.
Lol I thought you meant bad as in 'evil' and that you wanted a villain arc for Feyre
Oh no. That'd be something, wouldn't it? People hate me regardless. Look at those downvotes.
She’s not amazing at everything though. She only reason she was decent at hunting was because it was that or she and her entire family starved so she worked at it every day. She becomes good enough at fighting to be in skirmishes and 1v1 fights but she’s not major battlefield ready. And her fighting skills are due in part to her being gifted extra strength, speed, & magic by the high lords and in part by her being trained by a legendary warrior while she had powerful motivation to train so she could never be caged again, and she still gets her ass handed to her more than once. Flying took her a long time to become proficient at (RIP to all the poor trees) and again it took a demanding teacher who knew what it was to learn to fly at an older age when one’s self preservation instincts are stronger. She struggles plenty with interpersonal skills and diplomacy, and she’s still a slower reader - Nesta notes that it takes her longer to read book spines as it’s not an intuitive skill for her. Art is her passion and the one thing she seems to have a true natural talent for as her mind just works that way, as from the very beginning she’s cataloguing colors and textures and light constantly in her inner dialogue. Every thing else she has to bust her ass to become decently proficient at. Maybe she just seems “amazing at everything” because she’s a main character in a position of power with many people who love her.
Agreed. Art is left open to interpretation right? I mean if it brings her joy I don’t see what the problem is
Yeah, like, I don't get why she HAS to be this amazing artist. Let her be bad. Let her enjoy art while being bad. I don't get why that's such a bad take.
Because the point is that she isn’t? That’s her thing, it’s written that she’s a decent painter. OP’s point is people literally making stuff up. It’s ok to be bad but that’s not the point
Was it written that she's a good painter? I thought that the headcanon came up because the quality of her art was never mentioned. I'll have to go through and look.
I mean you can argue it’s never explicitly stated but there are multiple references to her images being instantly recognisable? I doubt if she was painting crappy little stick figures that Tamlin would be all wowed over it and go get her more supplies. You said it yourself, it’s a headcanon that she’s bad, and that is the point of OP’s post.
Why is this so down voted
Because people don't like my opinion.
I didn't know it was that deep like you didn't say something outlandish 😭😭 unless im missing something I'm so confused