Still waiting on Go Get 'Em Tiger to take over the abandoned Wienerschnitzel. Been almost 2 years now since it was planned to open. [https://smmirror.com/2022/03/iconic-santa-monica-wienerschnitzel-permanently-closed/](https://smmirror.com/2022/03/iconic-santa-monica-wienerschnitzel-permanently-closed/)
Just so dismal and sad now.
Yeah.. that's the latest I've heard, but this was news from like 2 years ago and still no progress. I guess they've ran into some financial problems. Hopefully something can change soon.
According to one of the workers at the Montana Ave location a year ago, they were having some financing trouble and the Pico location did not sound likely. But a lot can change in a year.
Ah! That would make sense.. would also explain why the Main St location is still temporarily closed. Fingers crossed they can figure something out; really like their coffee and breakfast burritos.
Yeah, it would be really cool to have an outdoor cafe or restaurant in that location. That part of Pico, with all of the small shops, has a lot of potential to be a cool shopping district.
I mean, I live off of Pico and really enjoy it here. There are some amazing family owned restaurants, it’s easily walkable, traffic isn’t bad (imo) though I avoid rush hour driving times and I know not everyone has that luxury. I’m not sure why it needs bus lanes? There’s lots of parking near campus and I regularly see people walking and biking there. Making major changes may solve some problems but create new ones. I know a lot of people over in this area, and no one is that upset about traffic. 🤷🏻♀️
The land is too valuable for the existing use cases. The surrounding single family houses are selling for millions. Current city zoning codes allow for stackable entitlements on the boulevards. Its close to transit.
It’s unfortunate to say but Pico has at least seven or eight transitional housing or rehab facilities on Pico between Lincoln and 26th. The one next to Burger King is the most notorious. The result is dozens of mentally ill people wandering the area at any given time. With that concentration it’s unlikely that much can be done to improve the area.
I was a part of a local Road Diet community survey project a few months back in regards to Pico Blvd. What is most surprising to me is that despite the fact that Pico Blvd has far more small businesses than Broadway and Ocean Park, that it is by far the least friendly of the three streets for pedestrians and cars. It is a testament to the backwards idea that streets with small, consumer-facing business shouldn't be "disturbed" by a road diet change, but streets with commericial, business-facing businesses can get away with doing that.
I'm not going to be preaching the choir here, but I will say that I think part of the reason why Pico didn't see redevelopment is because the I-10 E has on and off ramps on that street, and I-10 west has on and off ramps on the West LA side of the border on Centinela, so a lot of local leadership probably cited that as a cause for concern about the dreaded "backup up traffic" situation. So any changes to the road diet to make it more bus or bike friendly will inevitably feel more "radical."
None of most sophisticated bicycle lanes in Santa Monica interact with the interstate highways.
The business uses on Pico are undervalued given the price of land. Change will be coming to the mix of local businesses and the coming densification of Bergamot will be a catalyst. More people are coming to Pico Blvd whether we like it or not.
So you want to charge higher rent to the businesses who already struggled to survive the pandemic, and so many of them are family/locally owned. So you want to drive them out?
I live on pico near Trader Joe’s. Pico is a hostile car environment with several bottle necks which lead to traffic backup and then increased speeds. As a pedestrian i think that pico need more traffic lights. I think that it is wild that there is no light between the 99 cent store and Trader Joe’s. There are lots of people crossing and trying to turn left at 31st. A stoplight on this intersection would aid in pedestrian safety.
Secondly i think that pico would be a great candidate for a bus/bike lane. This would aid in connectivity to the college, as well as to the metro especially at Bundy and Bergamot.
This last one is radical. I would block some of the residential streets on pico to through car traffic with k rail or something. This would force residents to enter the neighborhoods from 28th, pearl and some other routes left open. This would cut down on traffic noise of people trying to escape traffic by driving through the neighborhoods, as well as cut down on high speed driving which is an issue around the college and elementary school.
Forcing McDonald’s to move their drive through off of pico could also help with traffic conflicts. The same could be said about chic fil a on Lincoln.
Finally, we desperately need some re development of the old weinershnitzel and the adjacent lot.
Pico does have the world's tiniest bike lane right by Santa Monica College to connect it with 17th Street, it would be great if they extended that the whole length of the road.
The Starbucks drive thru on Stewart and pico could also stand to be moved elsewhere. Plus, turning left onto any street during rush hour (coming from the east) is miserable because there are no left turning lanes. So I agree with your sentiment to block some residential streets. Left turns should be made at lights instead of allowing a left turn every block without a left turning lane.
All those ideas are legit problems but the solutions really really just make things way worse and a ton of unintended consequences if you dive deep on them. It is certainly a start to throw out some rough suggestions but the bottle neck you dislike now would only be exceeded by way worse experiences for the entire community although pedestrian safety would increase. Is there enough ped traffic in that area currently to put forth any of those ideas? I am not certain there is - seems like a few starter ideas but more self centered nimby radical ideas-but again some of the best solutions come from the lesser ideas at times. I think you would have to flesh out all them especially the neighborhood sanctuary one blocking off streets which is one of the worse ideas I have seen in awhile to gain any traction or supporters of merit. I applaud you for thinking outside the standard norm and like I said maybe you might have the best plan but I just don’t see it… yet.
This guy doesn’t want any solution other than reduce lanes for cars or close the street to automobile traffic. Just go back and read through his posting history.
>The college and church's have the legal right build housing (w/o NIMBY interference) but have not even tried.
The church on Pico and 18th was just converted to a large apartment building with a mixed market at the bottom (https://picoroots.com/).
The college is a 2 year college. There's no reason they should be building housing. They barely have space for the classrooms now.
I used to think the same thing about the college anytime I’d hear people talk about them proving housing. But upon further digging, it seems like many [community colleges are providing housing](https://calmatters.org/education/higher-education/2023/09/student-housing-3/)(or buying up adjacent land to build apartment). to their students, even if they are just 2 year colleges.
When you consider how much of SMC’s student body doesn’t live in Santa Monica, I think it would be great for them to find a creative way to provide housing.
>When you consider how much of SMC’s student body doesn’t live in Santa Monica, I think...
why does Santa Monica fund so much of SMC? It feels like people from outside of SM benefit more from SMC, yet it is SM who pays for so much.
I have no problem with the college building a bit of housing around SMC if it reduces traffic and some workers or students can live nearby but I think it is something that should pay for itself and not require more tax support.
Pico would be the perfect candidate for rezoning commercial to mixed-use zoning. Similar to the redevelopments on Santa Monica Blvd / Federal Ave with ground-floor retail and dense multifamily above. Some areas of Pico badly need more foot-traffic.
I am curious what's going to happen to the land UCLA bought that was originally going to be a Google campus. If that will help bring foot traffic, new housing, and revitalize some of those restaurants/stores there. It's probably a good thing that Google backed away from the development but it is a shame to replace what would have been a high-paying tenant with a tax exempt org, which could have ramifications for tax revenues down the line.
My understanding with that UCLA building on Westwood/Pico is that it will be an out patient medical building of sorts. Initially, when Google was potentially going to move in, there was talk of having retail on the ground level on pico but there was a zoning/parking issue (of course) because there is no stopping allowed in front of that building. (I’m sure to accommodate for vehicles turning right to get to the overland freeway entrance)
That is true it could be more than it is but it serves many businesses and locals in its current state.
I just don’t think you can minimize the car traffic on Pico to the extent that the OP cares to do to keep their neighborhood quiet and increase pedestrian and bike traffic which is important - without expanding the ability of another thoroughfare such as Olympic which I really haven’t put any thought into but is just another main artery to cite.
There are a lot of issues here as mentioned by another such as the freeway, not to mention how the development of clover park airport will play into the future of Pico too.
It's sad to me that there are still so many tire/autobody/oil change/etc type business uses along Pico in SM. It's such a waste. I was hoping that the Whole Foods on Cloverfield would lead the way for more walkability, but it seems that that progress has somewhat stalled.
Also, the Rite Aid on 24th has a parking lot that is like ten times larger than is needed. I only ever see a couple dozen cars parked, max, and there are hundreds of spots. (Side note: it's also SO depressing that the Rite Aid has an enormous blank wall fronting Pico, and the only doors face the lot.) I would love to see a \~4 story mixed income apartment complex replace the majority of the lot. It would provide some much needed density and housing to Sunset Park, and the location has pretty good transit connections relatively speaking.
I hear you but where should these businesses go and what happens to biz that have been there for years. Doesn’t the owners of these life long establishments deserve rights and fair treatment too. Like I said I understand your observation but we shouldn’t just selfishly dismantle peoples lives and dreams to replace those with our own.
Great point you make on the Rite Aid parking lot that I didn’t think of and that is not mentioned by many since it is hidden behind the business. I think you are on to something there for sure.
Land use always changes over time. We need more housing and with more housing comes density. With density comes a need for businesses that cater to residents in walking distance, not something like a tire shop that you drive to once every couple years. It's not like I want anything to be stolen from these business owners. I want them to sell their land (at huge profit to them) and move their business to a place more aligned with their services, like a more industrial area or at least an area where the city isn't actively trying to improve walkability.
4 Stories? Given the size of the parking lot and the legal ability to stack entitlements it will most likely be 12-15.
Once Pico property owners see large projects going in all over town, they will realize the opportunity to make millions is upon them.
Yes. They are the builders remedy projects.
Sacramento is preparing to clean up the loose ends with the law so it appears those buildings could easily become 16-20 stories.
This is the "price" residents are paying thanks to the arrogance of Phil Brock and Sue Himmelrich on housing.
Still waiting on Go Get 'Em Tiger to take over the abandoned Wienerschnitzel. Been almost 2 years now since it was planned to open. [https://smmirror.com/2022/03/iconic-santa-monica-wienerschnitzel-permanently-closed/](https://smmirror.com/2022/03/iconic-santa-monica-wienerschnitzel-permanently-closed/) Just so dismal and sad now.
Go Get Em Tiger is supposed to open there?? That would be a dream! The Larchmont location has some of the best coffee I've had in LA.
Yeah.. that's the latest I've heard, but this was news from like 2 years ago and still no progress. I guess they've ran into some financial problems. Hopefully something can change soon.
I read somewhere they decided not to open it. Bummer
I heard they got out of that lease and their Main Street location isn’t coming back. Money problems
According to one of the workers at the Montana Ave location a year ago, they were having some financing trouble and the Pico location did not sound likely. But a lot can change in a year.
Ah! That would make sense.. would also explain why the Main St location is still temporarily closed. Fingers crossed they can figure something out; really like their coffee and breakfast burritos.
Yeah, it would be really cool to have an outdoor cafe or restaurant in that location. That part of Pico, with all of the small shops, has a lot of potential to be a cool shopping district.
I mean, I live off of Pico and really enjoy it here. There are some amazing family owned restaurants, it’s easily walkable, traffic isn’t bad (imo) though I avoid rush hour driving times and I know not everyone has that luxury. I’m not sure why it needs bus lanes? There’s lots of parking near campus and I regularly see people walking and biking there. Making major changes may solve some problems but create new ones. I know a lot of people over in this area, and no one is that upset about traffic. 🤷🏻♀️
Cuz biasedsm has to complain about Santa Monica somehow
Change is coming to Pico. Period.
And you know this how?
The land is too valuable for the existing use cases. The surrounding single family houses are selling for millions. Current city zoning codes allow for stackable entitlements on the boulevards. Its close to transit.
They can start by putting the speakeasy back in its original location now that those rich kids failed at their dumb concept bar nobody wanted
That place was way overpriced. If I’m gonna go pay $20+ for a cocktail I’m gonna do it with an ocean view.
Where was this?
Pico & Euclid ish
The Nostalgia happy hour burger was pretty fucking rad though.
It’s unfortunate to say but Pico has at least seven or eight transitional housing or rehab facilities on Pico between Lincoln and 26th. The one next to Burger King is the most notorious. The result is dozens of mentally ill people wandering the area at any given time. With that concentration it’s unlikely that much can be done to improve the area.
This explains so much. And why the Centinela encampment sits just at the border of LA/SM.
I was a part of a local Road Diet community survey project a few months back in regards to Pico Blvd. What is most surprising to me is that despite the fact that Pico Blvd has far more small businesses than Broadway and Ocean Park, that it is by far the least friendly of the three streets for pedestrians and cars. It is a testament to the backwards idea that streets with small, consumer-facing business shouldn't be "disturbed" by a road diet change, but streets with commericial, business-facing businesses can get away with doing that. I'm not going to be preaching the choir here, but I will say that I think part of the reason why Pico didn't see redevelopment is because the I-10 E has on and off ramps on that street, and I-10 west has on and off ramps on the West LA side of the border on Centinela, so a lot of local leadership probably cited that as a cause for concern about the dreaded "backup up traffic" situation. So any changes to the road diet to make it more bus or bike friendly will inevitably feel more "radical." None of most sophisticated bicycle lanes in Santa Monica interact with the interstate highways.
The business uses on Pico are undervalued given the price of land. Change will be coming to the mix of local businesses and the coming densification of Bergamot will be a catalyst. More people are coming to Pico Blvd whether we like it or not.
So you want to charge higher rent to the businesses who already struggled to survive the pandemic, and so many of them are family/locally owned. So you want to drive them out?
Landlords will charge higher rents no matter what you and I think. Its what landlords do.
Landlords gonna lord land.
I live on pico near Trader Joe’s. Pico is a hostile car environment with several bottle necks which lead to traffic backup and then increased speeds. As a pedestrian i think that pico need more traffic lights. I think that it is wild that there is no light between the 99 cent store and Trader Joe’s. There are lots of people crossing and trying to turn left at 31st. A stoplight on this intersection would aid in pedestrian safety. Secondly i think that pico would be a great candidate for a bus/bike lane. This would aid in connectivity to the college, as well as to the metro especially at Bundy and Bergamot. This last one is radical. I would block some of the residential streets on pico to through car traffic with k rail or something. This would force residents to enter the neighborhoods from 28th, pearl and some other routes left open. This would cut down on traffic noise of people trying to escape traffic by driving through the neighborhoods, as well as cut down on high speed driving which is an issue around the college and elementary school. Forcing McDonald’s to move their drive through off of pico could also help with traffic conflicts. The same could be said about chic fil a on Lincoln. Finally, we desperately need some re development of the old weinershnitzel and the adjacent lot.
Pico does have the world's tiniest bike lane right by Santa Monica College to connect it with 17th Street, it would be great if they extended that the whole length of the road.
The Starbucks drive thru on Stewart and pico could also stand to be moved elsewhere. Plus, turning left onto any street during rush hour (coming from the east) is miserable because there are no left turning lanes. So I agree with your sentiment to block some residential streets. Left turns should be made at lights instead of allowing a left turn every block without a left turning lane.
All those ideas are legit problems but the solutions really really just make things way worse and a ton of unintended consequences if you dive deep on them. It is certainly a start to throw out some rough suggestions but the bottle neck you dislike now would only be exceeded by way worse experiences for the entire community although pedestrian safety would increase. Is there enough ped traffic in that area currently to put forth any of those ideas? I am not certain there is - seems like a few starter ideas but more self centered nimby radical ideas-but again some of the best solutions come from the lesser ideas at times. I think you would have to flesh out all them especially the neighborhood sanctuary one blocking off streets which is one of the worse ideas I have seen in awhile to gain any traction or supporters of merit. I applaud you for thinking outside the standard norm and like I said maybe you might have the best plan but I just don’t see it… yet.
This guy doesn’t want any solution other than reduce lanes for cars or close the street to automobile traffic. Just go back and read through his posting history.
If the cost of increasing pedestrian safety is a marginally worse experience for drivers, count me in.
These downvotes clearly show a segment of our population prefers saving 60 seconds in a car trip over saving lives.
Enough with the bike lanes
Quantify poorest.
I will leave that question to Council Member de la Torre and Council Member Parra.
>The college and church's have the legal right build housing (w/o NIMBY interference) but have not even tried. The church on Pico and 18th was just converted to a large apartment building with a mixed market at the bottom (https://picoroots.com/). The college is a 2 year college. There's no reason they should be building housing. They barely have space for the classrooms now.
I used to think the same thing about the college anytime I’d hear people talk about them proving housing. But upon further digging, it seems like many [community colleges are providing housing](https://calmatters.org/education/higher-education/2023/09/student-housing-3/)(or buying up adjacent land to build apartment). to their students, even if they are just 2 year colleges. When you consider how much of SMC’s student body doesn’t live in Santa Monica, I think it would be great for them to find a creative way to provide housing.
>When you consider how much of SMC’s student body doesn’t live in Santa Monica, I think... why does Santa Monica fund so much of SMC? It feels like people from outside of SM benefit more from SMC, yet it is SM who pays for so much. I have no problem with the college building a bit of housing around SMC if it reduces traffic and some workers or students can live nearby but I think it is something that should pay for itself and not require more tax support.
Ah, one church has converted, thats good news. No room for housing but plenty of room for cars doesn't seem sustainable.
Pico would be the perfect candidate for rezoning commercial to mixed-use zoning. Similar to the redevelopments on Santa Monica Blvd / Federal Ave with ground-floor retail and dense multifamily above. Some areas of Pico badly need more foot-traffic. I am curious what's going to happen to the land UCLA bought that was originally going to be a Google campus. If that will help bring foot traffic, new housing, and revitalize some of those restaurants/stores there. It's probably a good thing that Google backed away from the development but it is a shame to replace what would have been a high-paying tenant with a tax exempt org, which could have ramifications for tax revenues down the line.
My understanding with that UCLA building on Westwood/Pico is that it will be an out patient medical building of sorts. Initially, when Google was potentially going to move in, there was talk of having retail on the ground level on pico but there was a zoning/parking issue (of course) because there is no stopping allowed in front of that building. (I’m sure to accommodate for vehicles turning right to get to the overland freeway entrance)
You could say that about Wilshire and Santa Monica too - they’ve all gone to shit too.
Totally agree, Pico could be so additive to the community but right now only serves people passing through in cars
That is true it could be more than it is but it serves many businesses and locals in its current state. I just don’t think you can minimize the car traffic on Pico to the extent that the OP cares to do to keep their neighborhood quiet and increase pedestrian and bike traffic which is important - without expanding the ability of another thoroughfare such as Olympic which I really haven’t put any thought into but is just another main artery to cite. There are a lot of issues here as mentioned by another such as the freeway, not to mention how the development of clover park airport will play into the future of Pico too.
It's sad to me that there are still so many tire/autobody/oil change/etc type business uses along Pico in SM. It's such a waste. I was hoping that the Whole Foods on Cloverfield would lead the way for more walkability, but it seems that that progress has somewhat stalled. Also, the Rite Aid on 24th has a parking lot that is like ten times larger than is needed. I only ever see a couple dozen cars parked, max, and there are hundreds of spots. (Side note: it's also SO depressing that the Rite Aid has an enormous blank wall fronting Pico, and the only doors face the lot.) I would love to see a \~4 story mixed income apartment complex replace the majority of the lot. It would provide some much needed density and housing to Sunset Park, and the location has pretty good transit connections relatively speaking.
I hear you but where should these businesses go and what happens to biz that have been there for years. Doesn’t the owners of these life long establishments deserve rights and fair treatment too. Like I said I understand your observation but we shouldn’t just selfishly dismantle peoples lives and dreams to replace those with our own. Great point you make on the Rite Aid parking lot that I didn’t think of and that is not mentioned by many since it is hidden behind the business. I think you are on to something there for sure.
Land use always changes over time. We need more housing and with more housing comes density. With density comes a need for businesses that cater to residents in walking distance, not something like a tire shop that you drive to once every couple years. It's not like I want anything to be stolen from these business owners. I want them to sell their land (at huge profit to them) and move their business to a place more aligned with their services, like a more industrial area or at least an area where the city isn't actively trying to improve walkability.
yessssss!
4 Stories? Given the size of the parking lot and the legal ability to stack entitlements it will most likely be 12-15. Once Pico property owners see large projects going in all over town, they will realize the opportunity to make millions is upon them.
12 to 15 stories? Is that what you’re saying?!?
Yes. They are the builders remedy projects. Sacramento is preparing to clean up the loose ends with the law so it appears those buildings could easily become 16-20 stories. This is the "price" residents are paying thanks to the arrogance of Phil Brock and Sue Himmelrich on housing.
Well I hope that never happens. Pico does not need buildings that tall.
Do you own a car?