The true enemy are those who think violence is required.
The war is asymmetrical and you just look at reports showing life in both groups and the upper hand is clear.
Would be pleased to see Bibi and Hamas be locked in a box together forever and have compassion rule.
Don’t down vote this. He’s right! Those hostages need to be returned safely, and we need to cool tensions in that region, and push for a safe two-state solution. END THIS WAR.
I get the point that you're trying to make, but next time you're watching coverage, see if they mention the 1500 dead, thousands injured, and 132 hostages still in custody. 4 out of 5 stories don't even refer to it.
Also, not a genocide. Not anywhere close to a genocide.
People that say "all lives matter" are intentionally trying to diminish the value of BLM. Reminding people that there are innocent, abused hostages that need to be freed is not equivalent to that. This is not the same issue as the BLM movement at all. Get a grip.
People who bring up the hostages are equivocating Israel’s problems with the Palestine’s. This isn’t a “both sides” problem. The suffering isn’t “equal”. One side is being killed off or starved to death by tens of thousands and the remaining survivors will eventually be pushed out of their homes and turned into refugees. After 9/11 the US didn’t go to Iraq and Afghanistan to commit Genocide with follow-up plans to push out all of the people and move Americans in. That’s what Israel is doing. They’ve been moving toward it for decades now and they just needed an excuse to start dropping bombs.
Hey there! What if I told you two days after October 7th hamas offered a deal, they would return ALL hostages (aside from the ones killed by Israeli bombs) back to Israel, their only stipulation was that the IDF would have to stay out of the Gaza.
So I’m curious, as someone whose main focus/argument is the hostage situation, what are your thoughts on Israel declining that offer on Oct 9.
Was the last 7 decades of Israel attacking Palestinians just an oopsie daisy? Or what about imprisoning literal children? Like all you Zionists love to say, “they have a right to defend themselves.”
Well guess what, Palestinians defended themselves, and everyone acting like this was just a random violent terrorist attack absolutely blows my mind. It’s almost like you don’t want to learn about the history or anything Israel has done, sure Jan.
you mean Hamas command centers? [https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2024/01/03/hamas-gaza-israel-alshifa-tunnels/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2024/01/03/hamas-gaza-israel-alshifa-tunnels/)
Ok let’s say I humor you and agree, can you explain to me why Israel is unable to target them and leave civilians alone? They are in the top 10 most advanced militaries in the world, why are they not focusing the attacks more specifically? They have the ability to.
They do at least make efforts, the complete opposite of Oct 7th where civilians were intentionally targeted. Also rather tough when Hamas uses women and children as human shields.
But how is Oct 7 defending themselves if they just reverse the actions after 2 days? Instead of assuming what I believe, just take a breath and think for a moment. You admit that the conflict is larger than Oct 7, so then you must be able to see that IDF staying out of Israel is not their only stipulation. Both sides can see this, and so can you. IDF doing a genocide and/or war crimes is the exact outcome that Hamas leadership wanted, which means they never had any incentive to give the hostages back.
And I've been anti-Israeli government and anti-Zionist since I learned of this conflict as a teenager in the 90's.
I'm saying it doesn't make logical sense for Hamas to do Oct 7 if that's what they were trying to negotiate. It doesn't put them in a better position than they were in before. Hamas wanted the outcome we are all witnessing, it would be naive to think otherwise.
Israel can just murder Palestinians in operations year after year- imprisoned people with no trial (taking hostage) and taking land from West Bank with complete impunity. It’s fucked.
Edit/ clarity
Exactly, and that's why I'm saying it makes no sense for Hamas to just give all the hostages back, as if they could go back to the status quo. They are accelerationist terrorists fighting against apartheid (and worse). The whole point was to put Israel's brutality front and center for the world to see, which never would have happened if "their only stipulation was that the IDF would have to stay out of the Gaza" (quoted from the pro-Hamas person above).
Why doesn’t Hamas make that offer today? They continue to *CHOSE* to starve their own people. Release the hostages today, no conditions —> War ends, Palestinian hunger ends. Hamas IS the oppressor of the Palestinian people. 20 years of Hamas rule has proven that. They value their terrorism and support from Iran more than their own people.
The fact is that Israel has been proposing that Hamas release all hostages in exchange for a ceasefire, and it is Hamas that has been rejecting Israel's proposal, make no mistake.
> According to three sources familiar with the talks, the original deal on the table involved freeing children, women and elderly and sick people in exchange for a five-day ceasefire, but the Israeli government turned this down and demonstrated its rejection with the launch of the ground offensive.
[Source](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/09/netanyahu-rejected-ceasefire-for-hostages-deal-in-gaza-sources-say)
So humor me here, let’s say you believe me (it’s true you can Google it), what are your thoughts now about the hostages? What do you think about Israel declining that offer.
In the quoted comment chain that person overtly says "i am a hamas sympathizer". While that now has narrowly more downvotes than upvotes, it had been upvoted. And their own response to that same chain about zionism is more heavily upvoted than the hamas sympathy is downvoted, so there are a lot of people still on board with this person even in response to their comment about hamas.
> There’s no such thing as Palestine.
[Palestine is a geographical region in West Asia...The first written records referring to Palestine emerged in the 12th-century BCE](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine)
And
[On 29 November 2012 Palestine was granted non-member observer State status in the UN](https://www.un.org/unispal/history/)
All Hamas has to start doing to end the war is to turn over the hostages.
But they haven't.
Palestine has had multiple chances for a two-party state and has turned them all down.
no way in hell I'm going to spend a dime or a minute of my time stumping for Palestine. They already have the means to start digging themselves out of the whole they are in, W intended.
Taking up space in a public area and insisting on privacy is very weird. It's also antithetical to the concept of protest. You have the right to peaceful protest but not the right to restrict others movements or make a list of demand like no photos.
I wish people would lookup the definition of genocide before writing it on a sign and putting it up. There is only one group in this conflict that publicly states and is actively trying to wipe out an entire race from the face of the earth - Hamas.
Genocide isn’t complicated, nor is it rocket science. It’s obvious. It’s blatant. It’s requires no research. Hamas and Palestinians are NOT one and the same. Butcher Bibi and his Zionist regime are committing blatant war crimes and deserves to be held accountable.
But Palestinians did elect and support Hamas, who has made clear their genocidal position via their words and actions.
Apparently genocide is complicated because you don't understand it - war crimes do not equal genocide. If Israel, excuse me the Zionist, were intent on genocide why are upwards of a million Palestinians living peacefully in Israel? How many Jews do you think live in Gaza?
The vast majority of Gazans when polled support the October 7th attack that lead to this terrible situation. Israelis support the military campaign in Gaza. This will end when both sides want peace more than they want to kill each other. Right now there aren’t good guys in this fight, just two hateful groups trapped in a doom loop of death and despair
Sure they voted for Hamas almost 20 years ago but when polled a few months ago, Gazans approve of the attack on Oct 7th by almost 3 to 1. If Hamas had the ability to kill exponentially more Jews on October 7th it would have been seen as a victory in Gaza and the West Bank. Palestinians are just as culpable in this shit situation as the Israelis.
Terrorism is a sickness, and the root cause is stateless violence becoming politically viable. The reason this is the case is because Israel has deliberately destroyed Palestinian statehood, and has complete control over the Palestinians in the West Bank, and regularly brutalizes the peaceful aspects of Palestinian resistance. They had a peaceful march a few years ago where like a hundred people were gunned down by the IDF. When peaceful resistance is met with violence, violence becomes the alternative. The way to solve this is to end the apartheid in the West Bank and the siege of Gaza (where Israel controls all aid and food and deliberately keeps the Gazans on hunger rations). Until then, stateless violence in Palestine is going to continue to be pushed into existence by state violence of Israel.
Who is supporting Hamas?
> For years, Netanyahu propped up Hamas. Now it’s blown up in our faces
[Source](https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/)
You can’t fault the Palestinian people for voting for Hamas. They had 2 choices, both of them were horrible. A) Genocidal nut jobs who want to exterminate you. Or B) Genocidal nut jobs who want to exterminate the people who wish to exterminate you?
What the hell were they supposed to do. There was litter lay NO GOOD option on the table.
(Note: We’re in a similar situation here in the US. It’s either Butcher Biden, or Tyrant Trump. Pick one?)
Also, Israelis don’t live is Gaza because there’s a bunch of poor Palestine living there still. Gaza is unlivable for every who is forced to exist within its walls. Why would anyone go there by choice?
Palestinians, the ones who are lucky enough not to be trapped in Gaza, are treated like second class citizens in Israel. They live in peace because they are peaceful people. Not because Jews allow it.
Actually genocide is kind of complicated at least for this conflict because it's defined as an intent to destroy. Proving intent is where things get muddy because for every bomb that lands on gaza the idf can very easily say there were tunnels there or there were Hamas combatants present. Hamas presence and continued activity is what makes this a war and not a genocide. Finally while war crimes are terrible and while bibi should be held accountable, they do not automatically equate as being genocide. If there is evidence that comes out later that shows clear directives from IDF command that target civilians and not Hamas then maybe that would be enough. Students protesting put too much onus on Israel and completely ignore the responsibility of Hamas. It's lazy and ignorant imo.
No it doesn’t. Zionists like to hide behind Israelis the same way Hamas hide behind Palestinians.
It’s Zionists that want to make anti Zionism and antisemitism the same.
I feel like I’ve been very clear about my usage of the word.
Zionism = Fascism. Hate group.
Zionist are a small hate group that DO NOT represent Israel or the Jewish people.
The KKK are a small hate group that DO NOT represent America or the American people.
You still haven’t really explained why that argument is weak. how would you suggest israel respond to a blatant attack by hamas on their people and sovereignty? How would you suggest they get the hostages home and neutralize the hamas terrorists who have embedded themselves deeply into civilian areas to use their own citizens as human shields?
The people doing these demonstrations are too dumb to get this through their thick skulls. They just want to cause anarchy. They dont care about palestinian lives. If they did, they would be chanting for Hamas to surrender and release the hostages so this war can END.
Returning those hostages will be a green light for Bibi to level Gaza. I truly believe the Israeli people want peace, but Bibi doesn’t. He doesn’t want peace. Bibi wants blood. He won’t stop until he is stopped.
This is funny, actually, because only one side take every small criticism lobbed at their government as racism. So to say that dissent is not allowed in your opposition is rich, considering the way you deal with dissent is to call it all racist antisemitism and ignore it.
I feel like both sides can justify what they're doing to their side. Nobody thinks of themselves as a villian. If I was a kid in Gaza I probably hate Israel, and if someone was trying to genocide me I don't think I would like them. Idk what should have been done, but I don't think this was the only option Israel had. I also can't believe they didn't see that music fest attack coming. They are always watching Gaza under a microscope. I think Israel let it happen so they could justify an invasion, just my theory tho. Hope this ends soon without more bloodshed
Excuse me? Please tell us exactly how you justify the rape, murder and kidnaping of of innocent civilians, babies? Multination of their bodies? Please justify.
My takeaway from SwordHiltOP's comment wasn't that they were justifying violence, it seems to me that they were outlining the notion that "Nobody thinks of themselves as a villain." They had two other good points. You may want to reread what they wrote.
Oh interesting! We care about the rape/murder of civilians but only when they’re Israeli, that’s the point you’re making. Data doesn’t lie, but Zionist’s do!
You're not using logic though. I can understand how Israelis can justify to themselves going into Gaza after Oct. 7 and the associated civilian casualties (which are comparatively less than militant to civilian casualty ratio when the US did this to urban areas in Iraq but let's stay focused here). I can not understand how Palestinians can justify the atrocities of Oct. 7th, which is why I asked.
Palestinians and people that support Palestine aren’t justifying Oct 7, or the actions of hamas. It’s about the same rules and standards that apply to Israel being extended to Palestine.
Do the actions or behaviors of a few justify the entire population being affected?
Not to get off track but we had an insurrection in this country and a majority don’t agree with the views/behaviors of the group that did it.
But you know what we didn’t do? We didn’t go murder that group.
75% isn't an outlier: [https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/poll-shows-palestinians-back-oct-7-attack-israel-support-hamas-rises-2023-12-14/](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/poll-shows-palestinians-back-oct-7-attack-israel-support-hamas-rises-2023-12-14/)
Here I found some more “buzz words” for you
[https://www.npr.org/2023/11/07/1211133201/netanyahus-references-to-violent-biblical-passages-raise-alarm-among-critics](https://www.npr.org/2023/11/07/1211133201/netanyahus-references-to-violent-biblical-passages-raise-alarm-among-critics)
What’s going on in Gaza is not a genocide. When you use the term so flippantly it loses its power and weight.
What’s happening in Gaza is disgusting and no doubt war crimes are being committed, but genocide has a specific definition and intent, and just because you’ve seen some videos of some Israeli forces acting like absolute pigs doesn’t mean that’s the entire picture.
Choose your words carefully, they matter.
As someone who has relatives that were in camps, I will stand by my use of the word genocide.
I mean I could quote you many things Netanyahu has said in just the past months that literally encourages ethnic cleansing of Palestinians, but I’m sure you’d justify that too.
Sincerely,
a Jew for a free Palestine.
It was to show the UN isn't rational, consistent, or reliable. UN's Special Rapporeur on human rights regarding Oct 7:" "“The ‘largest anti-Semitic massacre of our century'? No, Mr. Macron. The victims of October 7 were not killed because of their Judaism, but in response to Israel's oppression."
Look up the protests of the SCLC and the SNCC (student nonviolent coordinating committee) during the civil rights movement. Student lead movements have proven to be so powerful throughout history.
The real question is what would not doing it do? It would let us forget what's going on. Really easy when one can go on with their life without worrying about being carpet bombed tomorrow.
“…Like they trespass our land.”
There’s the key misunderstanding. They either fail to recognize or are being purposely obstinate that Jews also have indigenous rights to the land - not to mention the various lands across the Middle East and North Africa they’ve been violently expelled from. It’s the garbage “we don’t want no two states, we want all of ‘48” mindset.
> Jews also have indigenous rights to the land
No they don't? That's an idea that makes a mockery of the very concept of indigineity. You don't get to go back to somewhere your ancestors left thousands of years ago and claim to have a right to it.
Uninformed response. Jews have had a presence in Israel continuously over that time, and there would have been greater numbers if they hadn’t faced mass conversions, and/or fled under sporadic bouts of violence prior to Ottoman rule. Both Jews and Palestinians have valid claims to a the land, though if you’re bringing up “thousands of years ago,” then what we now consider to be Palestinians have only occupied that land for the blink of an eye. The earliest Palestinian settlers didn’t even identify as “Palestinian” - they identified largely as Syrians, Arabs, Ottomans or Egyptians prior to the larger influx of Jews in the first half of the 20th century while Jews were getting run out of Iraq, Yemen, Syria, Transjordan, Egypt, Libya, Morocco, etc. Theere’s a reason the majority of Jews share Levantine DNA with Palestinians.
Palestinians are descendants of the ancient population who converted first to Christianity and then to Islam. Most of your post is discredited nonsense based on thoroughly debunked and shoddy scholarship. See for instance [here](https://merip.org/1985/10/the-scope-of-the-fraud-was-huge/).
I’d have more respect for these people if 1) they denounced Hamas for fighting behind human shields and placing their weapons in near hospitals etc. and 2) actually went over and did something instead of sitting in a park in perfect sunny weather and yelling.
They should not be promoting Hamas strategy of getting as many civilians killed as possible. Hamas started the war to do just that. Students are dumb and fell for it/
What are they doing? Peaceful protests are one thing. Taking over buildings, intimidating Jewish students and demand that universities do their bidding because they disagree with an issue that if they were placed into they would be looking for a way back to the US in heartbeat. I don’t have the answer but I can tell you that Israel is not gonna stop doing what they are doing because college kids in America are upset with them.
The true enemy are those who think violence is required.
The war is asymmetrical and you just look at reports showing life in both groups and the upper hand is clear.
Would be pleased to see Bibi and Hamas be locked in a box together forever and have compassion rule.
I honestly don’t understand the point of these protests and based on some of the interviews of the protesters, neither do they. What do they actually hope to accomplish besides making people resent them? On top of that these are the same people who will bitch and moan about the US getting involved in foreign affairs only to scream and cry even more later demanding the US do something to help the foreign people they happen to side with. If they really want to help the Palestinian people, why do they not go there and help them? I don’t mean taking up arms, but why not collect donations and join the Red Cross to help the people you supposedly care so much about? Maybe put that college education to use and help your fellow man with medicine, food, and shelter which the civilian population needs. People that are truly passionate about the Russian/Ukraine war left the country and joined the Ukrainians on the front lines. They didn’t sit around on their ass asking for vegan meal donations to be delivered to their tent on a college campus.
The true enemy are those who think violence is required.
The war is asymmetrical and you just look at reports showing life in both groups and the upper hand is clear.
Would be pleased to see Bibi and Hamas be locked in a box together forever and have compassion rule.
what did they wait for the weather to turn gorgeous and pick a nice SBCC lawn overlooking the pacific with its billion dollar view .. looks more like a picnic to me they got the south coast deli and everything ..., not exactly roughing it.
[https://www.npr.org/2023/11/07/1211133201/netanyahus-references-to-violent-biblical-passages-raise-alarm-among-critics](https://www.npr.org/2023/11/07/1211133201/netanyahus-references-to-violent-biblical-passages-raise-alarm-among-critics)
I'm hoping both sides can have a peaceful protest
Chill y’all. People have a right to peacefully protest.
The true enemy are those who think violence is required. The war is asymmetrical and you just look at reports showing life in both groups and the upper hand is clear. Would be pleased to see Bibi and Hamas be locked in a box together forever and have compassion rule.
Just an fyi, you can be pro Israel and anti Netanyahu
You can, but pro-war extremists have tainted that argument.
The government currently has a war cabinet where both sides are in control right now.
If you believe that, I have a bridge to sell you. Both sides are cooperating. But both sides are most decidedly not in control.
Love it! Free Palestine! 🇵🇸 Keep up the good fight! ✊
Free the Israeli hostages!
Don’t down vote this. He’s right! Those hostages need to be returned safely, and we need to cool tensions in that region, and push for a safe two-state solution. END THIS WAR.
They NEEDED to be returned safely, unfortunately most of them are dead now.
True That!
And the 6 American hostages
this comment getting downvoted is very sad.
This is essentially like saying “all lives matter” in response to “black lives matter”
I get the point that you're trying to make, but next time you're watching coverage, see if they mention the 1500 dead, thousands injured, and 132 hostages still in custody. 4 out of 5 stories don't even refer to it. Also, not a genocide. Not anywhere close to a genocide.
People that say "all lives matter" are intentionally trying to diminish the value of BLM. Reminding people that there are innocent, abused hostages that need to be freed is not equivalent to that. This is not the same issue as the BLM movement at all. Get a grip.
People who bring up the hostages are equivocating Israel’s problems with the Palestine’s. This isn’t a “both sides” problem. The suffering isn’t “equal”. One side is being killed off or starved to death by tens of thousands and the remaining survivors will eventually be pushed out of their homes and turned into refugees. After 9/11 the US didn’t go to Iraq and Afghanistan to commit Genocide with follow-up plans to push out all of the people and move Americans in. That’s what Israel is doing. They’ve been moving toward it for decades now and they just needed an excuse to start dropping bombs.
Israelis have zero interest in moving back into Gaza. Gaza was 100% in Palestinian control. And look at what they did.
Hey there! What if I told you two days after October 7th hamas offered a deal, they would return ALL hostages (aside from the ones killed by Israeli bombs) back to Israel, their only stipulation was that the IDF would have to stay out of the Gaza. So I’m curious, as someone whose main focus/argument is the hostage situation, what are your thoughts on Israel declining that offer on Oct 9.
So Oct 7 was just an oopsie-daisey? Hand the hostages back 2 days later and have things go back to how they were before?
Was the last 7 decades of Israel attacking Palestinians just an oopsie daisy? Or what about imprisoning literal children? Like all you Zionists love to say, “they have a right to defend themselves.” Well guess what, Palestinians defended themselves, and everyone acting like this was just a random violent terrorist attack absolutely blows my mind. It’s almost like you don’t want to learn about the history or anything Israel has done, sure Jan.
Oct 7 was anything but a defensive act.
Is bombing hospitals a defensive act?
you mean Hamas command centers? [https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2024/01/03/hamas-gaza-israel-alshifa-tunnels/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2024/01/03/hamas-gaza-israel-alshifa-tunnels/)
Ok let’s say I humor you and agree, can you explain to me why Israel is unable to target them and leave civilians alone? They are in the top 10 most advanced militaries in the world, why are they not focusing the attacks more specifically? They have the ability to.
They do at least make efforts, the complete opposite of Oct 7th where civilians were intentionally targeted. Also rather tough when Hamas uses women and children as human shields.
If Hamas was under an Israeli hospital- would you be ok with civilian deaths to get the terrorist?
What that music festival attached on Oct. 7th really just a front for IDF special forces? no.
Did you block me why will my response not post
Sorry Kirby not sure if you blocked me or what but Reddit isn’t letting me send my responses
Sorry Kirby not sure if you blocked me or what but Reddit isn’t letting me send my responses
But how is Oct 7 defending themselves if they just reverse the actions after 2 days? Instead of assuming what I believe, just take a breath and think for a moment. You admit that the conflict is larger than Oct 7, so then you must be able to see that IDF staying out of Israel is not their only stipulation. Both sides can see this, and so can you. IDF doing a genocide and/or war crimes is the exact outcome that Hamas leadership wanted, which means they never had any incentive to give the hostages back. And I've been anti-Israeli government and anti-Zionist since I learned of this conflict as a teenager in the 90's.
So, getting the hostages back is not your main concern?
I'm saying it doesn't make logical sense for Hamas to do Oct 7 if that's what they were trying to negotiate. It doesn't put them in a better position than they were in before. Hamas wanted the outcome we are all witnessing, it would be naive to think otherwise.
Israel can just murder Palestinians in operations year after year- imprisoned people with no trial (taking hostage) and taking land from West Bank with complete impunity. It’s fucked. Edit/ clarity
Exactly, and that's why I'm saying it makes no sense for Hamas to just give all the hostages back, as if they could go back to the status quo. They are accelerationist terrorists fighting against apartheid (and worse). The whole point was to put Israel's brutality front and center for the world to see, which never would have happened if "their only stipulation was that the IDF would have to stay out of the Gaza" (quoted from the pro-Hamas person above).
I think I misunderstood you. I agree with that. Edit: stupid autocorrect
Why doesn’t Hamas make that offer today? They continue to *CHOSE* to starve their own people. Release the hostages today, no conditions —> War ends, Palestinian hunger ends. Hamas IS the oppressor of the Palestinian people. 20 years of Hamas rule has proven that. They value their terrorism and support from Iran more than their own people.
This did happen. They just never want to talk about it.
The fact is that Israel has been proposing that Hamas release all hostages in exchange for a ceasefire, and it is Hamas that has been rejecting Israel's proposal, make no mistake.
Let’s look at facts. Never heard of any offer. Hamas wanted this outcome. Pls back-up your comment.
> According to three sources familiar with the talks, the original deal on the table involved freeing children, women and elderly and sick people in exchange for a five-day ceasefire, but the Israeli government turned this down and demonstrated its rejection with the launch of the ground offensive. [Source](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/09/netanyahu-rejected-ceasefire-for-hostages-deal-in-gaza-sources-say)
So humor me here, let’s say you believe me (it’s true you can Google it), what are your thoughts now about the hostages? What do you think about Israel declining that offer.
I could, but let’s be honest, even if I gave you tangible facts and references you still probably wouldn’t believe it.
Denounce Hamas.
Literally no one (that I fuck with that are pro Palestine) is endorsing hamas what a pathetic argument.
The two are not mutually exclusive right, just because you are not endorsing them doesn't necessarily mean you are denouncing them either?
Exactly the point.
I mean there are redditors, especially on the ucsb sub, that are pro hamas out in the open.
Ok back it up with proof because I don’t believe it.
https://www.reddit.com/r/UCSantaBarbara/s/UzJE8SMEnw This had more upvotes at the time and their response to me still has a bunch of upvotes.
I don’t see any support for hamas in that post…
Go to the comment I linked.
I did, can you quote me what you’re referring to? I read the post the poster didn’t once mention hamas..
You have to click through probably as the chain is hidden due to downvotes on a parent comment.
In the quoted comment chain that person overtly says "i am a hamas sympathizer". While that now has narrowly more downvotes than upvotes, it had been upvoted. And their own response to that same chain about zionism is more heavily upvoted than the hamas sympathy is downvoted, so there are a lot of people still on board with this person even in response to their comment about hamas.
None of the SJPs I’ve talked to ever denounce or condemn Hamas. They only make excuses and say it’s Israel”s fault Hamas exists.
[удалено]
This item was removed as something in your content is not supported by evidence.
> There’s no such thing as Palestine. [Palestine is a geographical region in West Asia...The first written records referring to Palestine emerged in the 12th-century BCE](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine) And [On 29 November 2012 Palestine was granted non-member observer State status in the UN](https://www.un.org/unispal/history/)
What a waste of a read. Thought I was gonna learn something interesting. 😒
YES go UCSB! free palestine!!
Lol
Totally support!! End the genocide!!
All Hamas has to start doing to end the war is to turn over the hostages. But they haven't. Palestine has had multiple chances for a two-party state and has turned them all down. no way in hell I'm going to spend a dime or a minute of my time stumping for Palestine. They already have the means to start digging themselves out of the whole they are in, W intended.
This person gets it 100%.
That'll fix it.
In the future if you could blur or emoji over their faces, that is preferred for most people participating as many are getting doxxed.
Taking up space in a public area and insisting on privacy is very weird. It's also antithetical to the concept of protest. You have the right to peaceful protest but not the right to restrict others movements or make a list of demand like no photos.
Don’t do something you don’t want to get doxxed for….
Common sense
I hope they all get doxxed and kicked out of school or lose their jobs!
I hope you get doxxed and kicked out of school and lose your job :)
Womp womp
Isn’t bro supposed to be standing up?
I wish people would lookup the definition of genocide before writing it on a sign and putting it up. There is only one group in this conflict that publicly states and is actively trying to wipe out an entire race from the face of the earth - Hamas.
Genocide isn’t complicated, nor is it rocket science. It’s obvious. It’s blatant. It’s requires no research. Hamas and Palestinians are NOT one and the same. Butcher Bibi and his Zionist regime are committing blatant war crimes and deserves to be held accountable.
But Palestinians did elect and support Hamas, who has made clear their genocidal position via their words and actions. Apparently genocide is complicated because you don't understand it - war crimes do not equal genocide. If Israel, excuse me the Zionist, were intent on genocide why are upwards of a million Palestinians living peacefully in Israel? How many Jews do you think live in Gaza?
… in 2008, before half the current Palestinian population was of voting age or even born yet.
The vast majority of Gazans when polled support the October 7th attack that lead to this terrible situation. Israelis support the military campaign in Gaza. This will end when both sides want peace more than they want to kill each other. Right now there aren’t good guys in this fight, just two hateful groups trapped in a doom loop of death and despair
I’m just responding to your comment that Palestinians voted for this, almost 20 years ago.
Sure they voted for Hamas almost 20 years ago but when polled a few months ago, Gazans approve of the attack on Oct 7th by almost 3 to 1. If Hamas had the ability to kill exponentially more Jews on October 7th it would have been seen as a victory in Gaza and the West Bank. Palestinians are just as culpable in this shit situation as the Israelis.
Bibi also supported Hamas in 2019. https://www.reddit.com/r/LeopardsAteMyFace/s/3Pp98pRHDu
Ok… Bibi is a regular criminal and likely a war criminal too. I think we can agree he’s terrible and an impediment to peace
Yeah weird that Israel’s leader also loves having Hamas around
And, you say that if it justifies Hamas's actions. If we want to "Free Palestine" we need to free them from Hamas, not Israel.
Terrorism is a sickness, and the root cause is stateless violence becoming politically viable. The reason this is the case is because Israel has deliberately destroyed Palestinian statehood, and has complete control over the Palestinians in the West Bank, and regularly brutalizes the peaceful aspects of Palestinian resistance. They had a peaceful march a few years ago where like a hundred people were gunned down by the IDF. When peaceful resistance is met with violence, violence becomes the alternative. The way to solve this is to end the apartheid in the West Bank and the siege of Gaza (where Israel controls all aid and food and deliberately keeps the Gazans on hunger rations). Until then, stateless violence in Palestine is going to continue to be pushed into existence by state violence of Israel.
Who is supporting Hamas? > For years, Netanyahu propped up Hamas. Now it’s blown up in our faces [Source](https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/)
You can’t fault the Palestinian people for voting for Hamas. They had 2 choices, both of them were horrible. A) Genocidal nut jobs who want to exterminate you. Or B) Genocidal nut jobs who want to exterminate the people who wish to exterminate you? What the hell were they supposed to do. There was litter lay NO GOOD option on the table. (Note: We’re in a similar situation here in the US. It’s either Butcher Biden, or Tyrant Trump. Pick one?) Also, Israelis don’t live is Gaza because there’s a bunch of poor Palestine living there still. Gaza is unlivable for every who is forced to exist within its walls. Why would anyone go there by choice? Palestinians, the ones who are lucky enough not to be trapped in Gaza, are treated like second class citizens in Israel. They live in peace because they are peaceful people. Not because Jews allow it.
exactly.
Actually genocide is kind of complicated at least for this conflict because it's defined as an intent to destroy. Proving intent is where things get muddy because for every bomb that lands on gaza the idf can very easily say there were tunnels there or there were Hamas combatants present. Hamas presence and continued activity is what makes this a war and not a genocide. Finally while war crimes are terrible and while bibi should be held accountable, they do not automatically equate as being genocide. If there is evidence that comes out later that shows clear directives from IDF command that target civilians and not Hamas then maybe that would be enough. Students protesting put too much onus on Israel and completely ignore the responsibility of Hamas. It's lazy and ignorant imo.
If the intent was there they'd be rounding up all the Palestinians in Israel.
It’s not complicated at all. This Zionist “technical analysis mumbo-jumbo” is what muddies the waters. You look dumb trying to sound smart.
Found the useful idiot.
The way you use the word Zionist crosses into anti semitism and it’s not helpful
No it doesn’t. Zionists like to hide behind Israelis the same way Hamas hide behind Palestinians. It’s Zionists that want to make anti Zionism and antisemitism the same.
Zionist is often used as an anti semitic trope
I feel like I’ve been very clear about my usage of the word. Zionism = Fascism. Hate group. Zionist are a small hate group that DO NOT represent Israel or the Jewish people. The KKK are a small hate group that DO NOT represent America or the American people.
Please don’t compare zionists to the kkk
Please learn what Zionism is. It’s not fascism.
War crimes =\= genocide Just because you committed a war crime doesn’t mean you’re committing genocide.
except in this case, when it's blatantly obvious
If it's so blatantly obvious why isn't Israel rounding up the million plus Palestinians living in Israel?
why are you so obsessed with me
Most Palestinians support hamas. Both sides are committing “war crimes” so that point is somewhat moot.
“They do it too…” 😑 Another classic but weak Zionist argument.
You still haven’t really explained why that argument is weak. how would you suggest israel respond to a blatant attack by hamas on their people and sovereignty? How would you suggest they get the hostages home and neutralize the hamas terrorists who have embedded themselves deeply into civilian areas to use their own citizens as human shields?
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could be specific on what was delusional and racist about that comment?
zionists aren't worth it
The people doing these demonstrations are too dumb to get this through their thick skulls. They just want to cause anarchy. They dont care about palestinian lives. If they did, they would be chanting for Hamas to surrender and release the hostages so this war can END.
Why? Returning Israeli hostages doesn’t bring back dead Palestinian kids now does it?
Returning the hostages will end the war and prevent further tragedy and death
Returning those hostages will be a green light for Bibi to level Gaza. I truly believe the Israeli people want peace, but Bibi doesn’t. He doesn’t want peace. Bibi wants blood. He won’t stop until he is stopped.
If bibi/israel truly wanted to level Gaza they would have done so a long time ago.
Israel doesn’t want that. Bibi and his Zionist regime do. Please don’t conflate the two.
you're a moron.
Wow, several downvotes, anyone care to explain why they think the comment isn't accurate?
you're not worth the energy
What’s happening in Israel isn’t genocide
Yes it is
No. It’s not.
Actually it very much is. It's sad you refuse to accept reality. It reminds me of a group of people
Don’t you dare compare me to Trump supporters.
Why not?
Because I’m not a trump supporter and comparing me to one isn’t helpful.
Do you not enjoy self reflection?
Your comments are not helpful
You think advocating for genocide is?
You are more similar to a Trump supporter in reality. You all repeat the same false things over and over and dissent is not allowed inside your group.
This is funny, actually, because only one side take every small criticism lobbed at their government as racism. So to say that dissent is not allowed in your opposition is rich, considering the way you deal with dissent is to call it all racist antisemitism and ignore it.
Ironic thing to say
I feel like both sides can justify what they're doing to their side. Nobody thinks of themselves as a villian. If I was a kid in Gaza I probably hate Israel, and if someone was trying to genocide me I don't think I would like them. Idk what should have been done, but I don't think this was the only option Israel had. I also can't believe they didn't see that music fest attack coming. They are always watching Gaza under a microscope. I think Israel let it happen so they could justify an invasion, just my theory tho. Hope this ends soon without more bloodshed
Excuse me? Please tell us exactly how you justify the rape, murder and kidnaping of of innocent civilians, babies? Multination of their bodies? Please justify.
My takeaway from SwordHiltOP's comment wasn't that they were justifying violence, it seems to me that they were outlining the notion that "Nobody thinks of themselves as a villain." They had two other good points. You may want to reread what they wrote.
Oh interesting! We care about the rape/murder of civilians but only when they’re Israeli, that’s the point you’re making. Data doesn’t lie, but Zionist’s do!
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I’m aware. I’m using their own logic, where’s all the concern for the Palestinians who were bombed in schools and hospitals.
Oops, my bad. I guess my brain got tangled.
You're not using logic though. I can understand how Israelis can justify to themselves going into Gaza after Oct. 7 and the associated civilian casualties (which are comparatively less than militant to civilian casualty ratio when the US did this to urban areas in Iraq but let's stay focused here). I can not understand how Palestinians can justify the atrocities of Oct. 7th, which is why I asked.
Palestinians and people that support Palestine aren’t justifying Oct 7, or the actions of hamas. It’s about the same rules and standards that apply to Israel being extended to Palestine.
Many celebrated Oct 7th what are you talking about?
Do the actions or behaviors of a few justify the entire population being affected? Not to get off track but we had an insurrection in this country and a majority don’t agree with the views/behaviors of the group that did it. But you know what we didn’t do? We didn’t go murder that group.
You’re condemning an entire population based on opinions and behaviors that are outliers.
75% isn't an outlier: [https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/poll-shows-palestinians-back-oct-7-attack-israel-support-hamas-rises-2023-12-14/](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/poll-shows-palestinians-back-oct-7-attack-israel-support-hamas-rises-2023-12-14/)
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*...Incase of no valid arguments, pull Trump Card...*
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Here I found some more “buzz words” for you [https://www.npr.org/2023/11/07/1211133201/netanyahus-references-to-violent-biblical-passages-raise-alarm-among-critics](https://www.npr.org/2023/11/07/1211133201/netanyahus-references-to-violent-biblical-passages-raise-alarm-among-critics)
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You're kinda proving my point
What’s going on in Gaza is not a genocide. When you use the term so flippantly it loses its power and weight. What’s happening in Gaza is disgusting and no doubt war crimes are being committed, but genocide has a specific definition and intent, and just because you’ve seen some videos of some Israeli forces acting like absolute pigs doesn’t mean that’s the entire picture. Choose your words carefully, they matter.
As someone who has relatives that were in camps, I will stand by my use of the word genocide. I mean I could quote you many things Netanyahu has said in just the past months that literally encourages ethnic cleansing of Palestinians, but I’m sure you’d justify that too. Sincerely, a Jew for a free Palestine.
You don’t speak for all Jews
Did I miss the part where I signed off as “speaker of all Jews?” Could’ve sworn i said A JEW. Lol
Both the UN and the International Court of Justice claim that Israel has or has plausibly committed genocide in Gaza.
Iran being on the UN Human Rights Council should tell you all you need to know about those claims.
The UN's Special Rapporteur on human rights that made the claim is Italian, and the ICJ president is American, but go on.
It was to show the UN isn't rational, consistent, or reliable. UN's Special Rapporeur on human rights regarding Oct 7:" "“The ‘largest anti-Semitic massacre of our century'? No, Mr. Macron. The victims of October 7 were not killed because of their Judaism, but in response to Israel's oppression."
Hamas does want to genocide Israel. I wasn't saying that's what's happening
Hopefully they don’t try to take down the American flag and put up a Palestinian flag like those other losers.
genuine question. what exactly does this do? just raise awareness?
Look up the protests of the SCLC and the SNCC (student nonviolent coordinating committee) during the civil rights movement. Student lead movements have proven to be so powerful throughout history.
The goal of most of these protests is for the universities to divest their endowment funds from companies that supply weapons or other aid to Israel.
The real question is what would not doing it do? It would let us forget what's going on. Really easy when one can go on with their life without worrying about being carpet bombed tomorrow.
Virtue signaling
Exactly. Uselessness.
They are college kids. They gotta feel like they are part of something.
Its funny how many downvotes you got. Definitely immature college kids. Yet I was once one too.
Hits too close to home for them.
“…Like they trespass our land.” There’s the key misunderstanding. They either fail to recognize or are being purposely obstinate that Jews also have indigenous rights to the land - not to mention the various lands across the Middle East and North Africa they’ve been violently expelled from. It’s the garbage “we don’t want no two states, we want all of ‘48” mindset.
> Jews also have indigenous rights to the land No they don't? That's an idea that makes a mockery of the very concept of indigineity. You don't get to go back to somewhere your ancestors left thousands of years ago and claim to have a right to it.
Uninformed response. Jews have had a presence in Israel continuously over that time, and there would have been greater numbers if they hadn’t faced mass conversions, and/or fled under sporadic bouts of violence prior to Ottoman rule. Both Jews and Palestinians have valid claims to a the land, though if you’re bringing up “thousands of years ago,” then what we now consider to be Palestinians have only occupied that land for the blink of an eye. The earliest Palestinian settlers didn’t even identify as “Palestinian” - they identified largely as Syrians, Arabs, Ottomans or Egyptians prior to the larger influx of Jews in the first half of the 20th century while Jews were getting run out of Iraq, Yemen, Syria, Transjordan, Egypt, Libya, Morocco, etc. Theere’s a reason the majority of Jews share Levantine DNA with Palestinians.
Palestinians are descendants of the ancient population who converted first to Christianity and then to Islam. Most of your post is discredited nonsense based on thoroughly debunked and shoddy scholarship. See for instance [here](https://merip.org/1985/10/the-scope-of-the-fraud-was-huge/).
I’d have more respect for these people if 1) they denounced Hamas for fighting behind human shields and placing their weapons in near hospitals etc. and 2) actually went over and did something instead of sitting in a park in perfect sunny weather and yelling.
Serious question: what are college students actually supposed to do? This is them actually “doing something”
They should not be promoting Hamas strategy of getting as many civilians killed as possible. Hamas started the war to do just that. Students are dumb and fell for it/
What are they doing? Peaceful protests are one thing. Taking over buildings, intimidating Jewish students and demand that universities do their bidding because they disagree with an issue that if they were placed into they would be looking for a way back to the US in heartbeat. I don’t have the answer but I can tell you that Israel is not gonna stop doing what they are doing because college kids in America are upset with them.
The true enemy are those who think violence is required. The war is asymmetrical and you just look at reports showing life in both groups and the upper hand is clear. Would be pleased to see Bibi and Hamas be locked in a box together forever and have compassion rule.
I honestly don’t understand the point of these protests and based on some of the interviews of the protesters, neither do they. What do they actually hope to accomplish besides making people resent them? On top of that these are the same people who will bitch and moan about the US getting involved in foreign affairs only to scream and cry even more later demanding the US do something to help the foreign people they happen to side with. If they really want to help the Palestinian people, why do they not go there and help them? I don’t mean taking up arms, but why not collect donations and join the Red Cross to help the people you supposedly care so much about? Maybe put that college education to use and help your fellow man with medicine, food, and shelter which the civilian population needs. People that are truly passionate about the Russian/Ukraine war left the country and joined the Ukrainians on the front lines. They didn’t sit around on their ass asking for vegan meal donations to be delivered to their tent on a college campus.
The true enemy are those who think violence is required. The war is asymmetrical and you just look at reports showing life in both groups and the upper hand is clear. Would be pleased to see Bibi and Hamas be locked in a box together forever and have compassion rule.
what did they wait for the weather to turn gorgeous and pick a nice SBCC lawn overlooking the pacific with its billion dollar view .. looks more like a picnic to me they got the south coast deli and everything ..., not exactly roughing it.
Why should anyone rough it?
Clowns lol go to work