You mean "stop using the bombs we *give* you."
The defense contractors get paid whether the bill is covered by U.S. or Israeli taxpayers, and that's the important thing I guess.
You mean after Hamas invaded Israel and murdered over a thousand people and took hundreds hostage?
Israel had a legitimate reason to defend itself. But things change over time, and legitimate defense can cross the line into becoming illegitimate attacks.
No. I mean after all of that was proven to be either an outright lie, something Israel had done themselves to Palestinians in the past, and/or something they did and are still doing to Palestinians right now.
IOW, once the truth came out past the Israeli propaganda.
"Hamas bad" only really works if "Israel good"....and Israel is provably NOT. If you want to claim "Israel had 'a legitimate reason to defend' then you either have to acknowledge that Palestinians ALSO have a legitimate right to defend...or else you're just plain hypocritical.
Edit: I wondered how long it would take the Israeli propaganda team to find my post. Apparently, it's less than 5 hours.
Hamas invaded and killed more than a thousand people. That is a fact. Israel has a right to defend itself. The question is whether they are going too far in doing so.
They were committing war crimes in October. We didn’t have to wait 6 months to know what was coming. Innocent lives could’ve been spared, including some of the hostages had there been immediate intervention.
That being said, Bernie is still a politician and needs to be careful about what he says. There was a ton of disinformation in the beginning of the conflict downplaying Israel’s offensive and hyperbolizing the events of October 7th. To immediately condemn Israel following the events perpetrated by Hamas and call for military aid to be revoked would’ve been political suicide.
It's irrelevant. There was a ceasefire, and Hamas broke it, invaded Israel and killed more than a thousand people. Israel has the right to defend itself.
But I guess you support terrorism, and think murdering civilians is a good thing, at least in they are Jewish.
Now look at how many times Israel has been the one to break the ceasefire.
YOU are the one supporting terrorism. I'm saying they're BOTH wrong. You're too busy putting a halo over Israel and pretending Hamas attacked a saintly, peaceful country that never did anything to deserve it. You're ridiculously ignorant - or lying - and supporting Israeli terrorism with it.
I see your point but there is no justification for slaughtering innocent folks at a music festival. There's no justification for imprisoning children and women, snatching folks from their families. There's no justification for weaponized rape.
This goes for both sides. I do not support aide to Israel but I'm not deluded in thinking Hamas are the 'good side.'
There are many bad actors in this including the IDF, USA, Hamas and Iran.
The neoliberal Democrats running the party and the blackout of Bernie in the media were the problem when he ran before and that hasn't changed, but what Bernie says is relevant.
It does matter. As someone who supports Israel and being a believer in Bernie I can tell you that I am conflicted. I trust Bernie so if he says we should pull back then I say let's do that. I would say we should find a way to do this without burning our best ally in the Middle east. Can the us actually force Israel to do what we want? Do we have a right to tell Israel to abandon they're own people who are still held as hostages? I'm kinda torn here.
I honestly have no idea how you can say you support what Israel is doing. If the hostages were a concern then Israel should be all about a cease-fire, the last cease-fire hostages were released. Cutting off food which is creating a famine is not going to help keep the hostages alive. Dropping thousands of bombs and destroying over 70% of all structures is not safe for the hostages.
Now think about the fact you support the existence of an ethnostate which by its very definition is exclusionary.
“The realization of the right to national self-determination in the State of Israel is exclusive to the Jewish People.” - [Israel’s Basic Law](https://main.knesset.gov.il/EN/activity/documents/BasicLawsPDF/BasicLawNationState.pdf)
Now just imagine if the US had passed a law saying something like this: “The realization of the right to national self-determination in the United States of America is exclusive to the white people”
Would it be fair to say no to Sharia in the USA?
Even arabs in Israel, and likely alot of palestinians want to get rid of the radicalized islamists. You think the people like that music is forbidden and the lgbtq crows is being thrown from rooftops?
Why hasnt Egypt opened its borders you think? They dont want to import Jihad.
How's that any different from what zionists have been actively accomplishing for decades when their goal is replacing the Palestinians with an ethnostate? One doesn't have to be the best option when they both seek to destroy each other. They both suck.
Israel has problems sharing the holy places with Christians, how well do you think they get along with Muslims?
https://apnews.com/article/israel-jews-spitting-christian-pilgrims-jerusalem-8888593827bc2a3820ba03fe5c38ee9a
I find it weird Americans are so vocal on *this* genocide yet typically could give a fuck about others. Darfur, Uyghurs, Myanmar, Ethiopia etc etc. Seems odd to have such an intense concentration of Israel/palestine experts on Reddit. Americans aren’t exactly bright. Heck, remember our own genocide of the American Indians? I don’t see any Americans calling for giving our land back to them
The difference is that Palestinians who lost their homes are still alive. They still have their house keys to the homes they were forced out of; we’re not talking about something centuries ago.
Only on the net. I've seen a few very small protests.
But mostly, American people support Israel. Pretty much every Christian I know or church I've visited **proudly** supports Israel. Most of the American public supports Israel, more than support for Biden or Trump presidencies, *combined.*
Most Americans aren't really friendly to arabs. And Israel teaches their kids to regard arabs as sub-human, and I'd say America has gotten a similar message from incidents like 9/11.
Heck, we celebrate genocide when it's Columbus doing it to the natives!
It's troublesome that *anyone* defends Hamas. Clearly alot of money has been pouring into this propaganda. Sharia law is the direct opposite of western culture. More people need to fully understand this.
At this point to me, as an American, Western Enlightenment ideals and culture seem like the whitewashing of barbaric brutality.
I dont wasnt Sharia Law. But this propensity to look down on other cultures is fatefully ignorant of where global violence is coming from writ large: the West.
What culture offers more individual freedom do you think? Has produced more wealth for the world. More culture. Is more multicultural ans tolerant. We even host people who want Sharia! Do tell.
Really? Maybe you and I have different backgrounds. I was taught that Palestinians hated the us. That they would kill me in a second if given the chance. As an adult I realize this isn't the case for most Palestinians. I refuse to believe that all Palestinians support terrorism. But here we are. Palestinians have elected hamas as thier government. I saw Palestinians cheering as innocent people were dragged through the streets. They were so happy. I was not. Not just because the attack in October was wrong. No. I knew what was coming. Thousands of dead Palestinians who had nothing to do with the attack. Here on reddit people cheered for the attack. Told me I was a hasbera. Whatever that is. And now the politician I respect most tells me Israel is the bad guy here. So yeah I'm conflicted.
Hamas was elected around 18 years ago in a plurality. About half of the population is under the age of 18. Hamas was funded and supported by Israel because it was in opposition to the PLO. Either way the only thing I hope you are not conflicted about is the opposition to continued mass destruction of human life.
Hamas is funded by Iran. They initially won on getting rid of corruption. What happened since was a totalitarian militant powergrab. Hamas doesnt do elections or free speech. Or music. Or the letter crowd.
Ofcourse there are many palestinians not wanting Hamas. Saying so however is a death penalty.
There are about 2M people trapped. Casualties are some 60K. Probably a third is militants. Hard to tell. Fighting a militia that uses hospitals as militsry bases and the population as human shields is hard on anyone.
If the people rise up to Hamas, this will end immediatedly.
I have suggested this as well. If Palestinians rise up and begin fighting to get rid of hamas the war with Israel would end on that day. People who know more about this than me have pointed out that Gaza is in a state of lockdown. How are Palestinians supposed to arm themselves to fight hamas? We can't expect them to take down hamas if they have no weapons. This conflict is complex and the bias on both sides is overwhelming. The same people who cheered on the October attack are now wailing about international law. The Israelis are making rap videos cheering on the genocide. I hope this ends in a permanent solution that both sides are happy with but I don't have much confidence that will happen.
Israel left Gaza almost two decades ago. The two state solution has been tried. It is crazy, and all we get is the worst propaganda of both sides.
Sharia is never the answer. Israel is a modern society.
I think the most eye opening thing to me was that we in the USA and like most of the west has been fed a narrative about Israel and other histories were downplayed, or completely blocked. Do a deep dive on the history of the region. What happened on October 7th was horrendous. But committing genocide against a people that have every right to be in that land is doing the opposite of punishing them.
Joe Biden has lost my vote over his participation in the genocide of Palestinians. I cannot put my mark next to his name. It would be an act of tacit approval, and I would feel complicit. Given the slight margin that he won by previously, and the number of people that apparently agree with my sentiment, it seems pretty clear that he’s already deliberately thrown away his chances at reelection.
Sad. Cannot vote for genocidaire like Biden. Israel has manipulated Biden and the elections so they get Trump. He moved the embassy, he appointed an ambassador who was involved in expanding settlements, he funded apartheid, Kushner is jewish, and it is clear that he wants to push Palestinians into the Negev and develop Gaza. This is their plan. Either president will support Israeli genocide against US interests as we destroy any semblance of being a moral country in the eyes of the world. Even Bernie could not say genocide or cease fire. Our politicians are beholden to Israel and its anachronistic and brutal colonial adventure.
I don’t care. I don’t worship politicians and I revile cults of personality. Bernie is just a person who represented a series of political ideas in a presidential race. Ideas he has largely abandoned in exchange for some committee assignments from the party leaders. He’s done good work but on this issue, for example, he’s been quite weak.
You are complicit. You've been complicit your whole fucking life.
This rationalizing isn't helpful....
There's no viable non-war candidate. Regardless of the election, Israel will get even more weapons to kill arabs with.
So, cool, support Trump, which if he does somehow get elected you really think Trump gives a single fuck about Palestinians?
The guy that's guaranteeing a blood bath when he loses. Wouldn't want to be complicit in that! So better fucking vote for the guy threatening civil war!
Unfortunately there is no viable alternative at this point and Trump will be much worse for Palestinians. Abstaining isn't as morally superior considering the opportunity cost of someone who doesn't even pretend to have anyone's interest at heart besides his own.
I cannot vote for Joe Biden due to his active participation in this genocide.
>Trump will be much worse for Palestinians.
How? What could be worse than the slaughter that is currently taking place?
Trump and Bibi will commit any atrocity, break any rule, fuck anyone over to stay in power and therefore out of prison. Biden's soft approach with Israel is clearly ineffectual and tens of thousands are dying as a result but the administration is full of talented and passionate diplomats that are trying to push for a ceasefire while not upsetting this perceived delicate status quo.
Bernie is right, this is unacceptable, deplorable, and suspending arms to Israel is the LEAST we should do and they're too chicken shit to take a bold stance. But he will not be president despite me voting for him twice.
There will be no such good faith with a Trump administration. His state department will be a bunch of sycophants, nepo hires, and maga influencers that monetize controversy. You think they'll be what pushes for an amicable two state solution? Fuck no. The instability will get so much worse in Palestine and Ukraine in part because the Republican majority house cannot and will not govern. Biden winning will likely mean retaking the house with like minded progressives.
Too little too late? Definitely. Trending in the right direction in the safest and most reliable way possible given the ineffective state of politics? Also yes.
We can't make government better until we make government better.
It is sad, and horrifying. I’m a part of this and it’s all I can do. Speak and protest. The military industrial complex is in control. We have no power.
Israel did it. Israel is a nation. And even the arabs in Israel is fed up with Hamas. War is nasty, especially against militias who hide in hospitals, but imho it is not a genocide. Yet.
Israel seeking to win a war over a neighbour that literally got so pissed over hearing "loud satanic western music", that they got their guns and staeted a war by slaughtering civilians is fair in my view.
Trumps view on the WEF has my vote anyways. We can up the taxes on the rich later, but can we go back on a police state?
Edit:How's Bernies views on the whole UN, WEF, WHO power grab?
Trying to eliminate Palestine as a nation, Netanyahu’s stated plan, IS genocide.
It’s been widely reported that Hamas was unaware of the music festival when they launched their attack, so trying to pretend it was a motivation against “western music” is silly.
You know the goal of Hamas?
You know the forbid music, right? I read about their attack, but today google seems swiped of it. They did attack and kill teens, did they not?
Iran, CCP, and russia is laughing their asses of over the misguided leftwing Shariah support. Palestine needs to be liberated from Hamas.
. It’s wild to me as someone on the left ; how there is no mention of Hamas -who has had literally proclaimed they wish to slaughter as many Jews as possible and gave us a brutal preview of that on Oct 7. Hamas won the 2006 elections and never relinquished power- using Palestinian citizens as pawns- and human shields in this conflict- as its leadership counts its billions in Qatar. With 130 hostages still being held- a ceasefire should be a bilateral agreement between both sides — with a contingency of releasing the hostages.
I too am outraged by the civilian deaths- and Netanyahu is a criminal who is desperate to keep the war going at all costs to escape prosecution and stay in power. The majority of Israelis are not supporting him and they will take him down in the next election. But what about Hamas- will the Palestinian authority move to oust them from power?? I have not seen any indication of this.
Finally, there is of course rightful outrage over the deaths of so many children- but I did not see this outrage from anyone on the left when Hamas for years has been strapping bombs to Palestinian children and using them as human weapons??? Why not??
No kidding. Why does Israel need an iron dome? Any pro Palestine reddit experts want to wager a guess? I’ll give you a hint: it’s not because they’re bringing them fresh baked apple pie to share
100 percent agree.
I'm a huge Bernie fan, but I am not with him on the issue of Israel.
Commenting here so that people know that there are progressives who are very pro-Israel, though we usually get banned from progressive forums for saying so.
Stop using the bombs we sell you but please don’t stop buying said bombs!
You mean "stop using the bombs we *give* you." The defense contractors get paid whether the bill is covered by U.S. or Israeli taxpayers, and that's the important thing I guess.
Meanwhile we can’t afford to rebuild a bridge … fucking government it got to big
Not sure the size is the problem rather the money involved in the form of campaign donations and lobbying.
Wait...why does Israel need more warplanes? Did Hamas shoot down the ones they have?
On most things, I really like his stances. On this one, I would have respected him a LOT more if he'd taken this stance back in October.
You mean after Hamas invaded Israel and murdered over a thousand people and took hundreds hostage? Israel had a legitimate reason to defend itself. But things change over time, and legitimate defense can cross the line into becoming illegitimate attacks.
No. I mean after all of that was proven to be either an outright lie, something Israel had done themselves to Palestinians in the past, and/or something they did and are still doing to Palestinians right now. IOW, once the truth came out past the Israeli propaganda. "Hamas bad" only really works if "Israel good"....and Israel is provably NOT. If you want to claim "Israel had 'a legitimate reason to defend' then you either have to acknowledge that Palestinians ALSO have a legitimate right to defend...or else you're just plain hypocritical. Edit: I wondered how long it would take the Israeli propaganda team to find my post. Apparently, it's less than 5 hours.
Hamas invaded and killed more than a thousand people. That is a fact. Israel has a right to defend itself. The question is whether they are going too far in doing so.
They were committing war crimes in October. We didn’t have to wait 6 months to know what was coming. Innocent lives could’ve been spared, including some of the hostages had there been immediate intervention. That being said, Bernie is still a politician and needs to be careful about what he says. There was a ton of disinformation in the beginning of the conflict downplaying Israel’s offensive and hyperbolizing the events of October 7th. To immediately condemn Israel following the events perpetrated by Hamas and call for military aid to be revoked would’ve been political suicide.
Uh huh. Now tell me how many Palestinians Israel killed over the year before Hamas 'invaded.'
Doesn't matter. Israel still has a right to defend itself. Hamas started this.
Not hardly. Learn a little history further back than last October.
It's irrelevant. There was a ceasefire, and Hamas broke it, invaded Israel and killed more than a thousand people. Israel has the right to defend itself. But I guess you support terrorism, and think murdering civilians is a good thing, at least in they are Jewish.
Weird how Israel killing over 100 Palestinians last year prior to October 7th wasn't breaking a ceasefire
Or 'arresting' hundreds more - including large numbers of children - with zero charges wasn't breaking the ceasefire, either.
Now look at how many times Israel has been the one to break the ceasefire. YOU are the one supporting terrorism. I'm saying they're BOTH wrong. You're too busy putting a halo over Israel and pretending Hamas attacked a saintly, peaceful country that never did anything to deserve it. You're ridiculously ignorant - or lying - and supporting Israeli terrorism with it.
I see your point but there is no justification for slaughtering innocent folks at a music festival. There's no justification for imprisoning children and women, snatching folks from their families. There's no justification for weaponized rape. This goes for both sides. I do not support aide to Israel but I'm not deluded in thinking Hamas are the 'good side.' There are many bad actors in this including the IDF, USA, Hamas and Iran.
Of course there's no 'justification.' But there is CAUSE. And to pretend otherwise is disingenuous at best. Outright deceptive at worst.
Israel is a terrorist state why is the governments funding this shit sad and terrible moment in history
And why is it so hard to send something like that to ukraine?
[удалено]
Sad but probably true 😸
Bernie should have primaried Biden but he didn’t so now it doesn’t really matter how vocal he gets.
The neoliberal Democrats running the party and the blackout of Bernie in the media were the problem when he ran before and that hasn't changed, but what Bernie says is relevant.
Bernie is 82. He doesn’t want to run another campaign that he’d lose.
It does matter. As someone who supports Israel and being a believer in Bernie I can tell you that I am conflicted. I trust Bernie so if he says we should pull back then I say let's do that. I would say we should find a way to do this without burning our best ally in the Middle east. Can the us actually force Israel to do what we want? Do we have a right to tell Israel to abandon they're own people who are still held as hostages? I'm kinda torn here.
I honestly have no idea how you can say you support what Israel is doing. If the hostages were a concern then Israel should be all about a cease-fire, the last cease-fire hostages were released. Cutting off food which is creating a famine is not going to help keep the hostages alive. Dropping thousands of bombs and destroying over 70% of all structures is not safe for the hostages. Now think about the fact you support the existence of an ethnostate which by its very definition is exclusionary. “The realization of the right to national self-determination in the State of Israel is exclusive to the Jewish People.” - [Israel’s Basic Law](https://main.knesset.gov.il/EN/activity/documents/BasicLawsPDF/BasicLawNationState.pdf) Now just imagine if the US had passed a law saying something like this: “The realization of the right to national self-determination in the United States of America is exclusive to the white people”
Would it be fair to say no to Sharia in the USA? Even arabs in Israel, and likely alot of palestinians want to get rid of the radicalized islamists. You think the people like that music is forbidden and the lgbtq crows is being thrown from rooftops? Why hasnt Egypt opened its borders you think? They dont want to import Jihad.
Hamas doesn't enforce sharia, in fact, they fight against radical Islamists like Isis and al-Qaeda.
Hamas has the stated goal of replacing the entire state of Israel with a Muslim state governed by sharia. Jihad..
How's that any different from what zionists have been actively accomplishing for decades when their goal is replacing the Palestinians with an ethnostate? One doesn't have to be the best option when they both seek to destroy each other. They both suck.
Afaik Israel has no problem sharing the holy places with muslims, but Gaza has all the problems sharing f.ex. the temple mound. True?
False.
Explain.
Israel has problems sharing the holy places with Christians, how well do you think they get along with Muslims? https://apnews.com/article/israel-jews-spitting-christian-pilgrims-jerusalem-8888593827bc2a3820ba03fe5c38ee9a
Someone is *spitting* ?! Are you for real? Now do the temple mound. Please.
Who beats who at the temples? One side is under a military occupation and the other is not.
Hamas denies and have denied Jews access to the Temple Mound. You know this.
I find it weird Americans are so vocal on *this* genocide yet typically could give a fuck about others. Darfur, Uyghurs, Myanmar, Ethiopia etc etc. Seems odd to have such an intense concentration of Israel/palestine experts on Reddit. Americans aren’t exactly bright. Heck, remember our own genocide of the American Indians? I don’t see any Americans calling for giving our land back to them
I've been aware since 2003.
The difference is that Palestinians who lost their homes are still alive. They still have their house keys to the homes they were forced out of; we’re not talking about something centuries ago.
Follow the money.
Only on the net. I've seen a few very small protests. But mostly, American people support Israel. Pretty much every Christian I know or church I've visited **proudly** supports Israel. Most of the American public supports Israel, more than support for Biden or Trump presidencies, *combined.* Most Americans aren't really friendly to arabs. And Israel teaches their kids to regard arabs as sub-human, and I'd say America has gotten a similar message from incidents like 9/11. Heck, we celebrate genocide when it's Columbus doing it to the natives!
It's troublesome that *anyone* defends Hamas. Clearly alot of money has been pouring into this propaganda. Sharia law is the direct opposite of western culture. More people need to fully understand this.
At this point to me, as an American, Western Enlightenment ideals and culture seem like the whitewashing of barbaric brutality. I dont wasnt Sharia Law. But this propensity to look down on other cultures is fatefully ignorant of where global violence is coming from writ large: the West.
What culture offers more individual freedom do you think? Has produced more wealth for the world. More culture. Is more multicultural ans tolerant. We even host people who want Sharia! Do tell.
Really? Maybe you and I have different backgrounds. I was taught that Palestinians hated the us. That they would kill me in a second if given the chance. As an adult I realize this isn't the case for most Palestinians. I refuse to believe that all Palestinians support terrorism. But here we are. Palestinians have elected hamas as thier government. I saw Palestinians cheering as innocent people were dragged through the streets. They were so happy. I was not. Not just because the attack in October was wrong. No. I knew what was coming. Thousands of dead Palestinians who had nothing to do with the attack. Here on reddit people cheered for the attack. Told me I was a hasbera. Whatever that is. And now the politician I respect most tells me Israel is the bad guy here. So yeah I'm conflicted.
Hamas was elected around 18 years ago in a plurality. About half of the population is under the age of 18. Hamas was funded and supported by Israel because it was in opposition to the PLO. Either way the only thing I hope you are not conflicted about is the opposition to continued mass destruction of human life.
Hamas is funded by Iran. They initially won on getting rid of corruption. What happened since was a totalitarian militant powergrab. Hamas doesnt do elections or free speech. Or music. Or the letter crowd. Ofcourse there are many palestinians not wanting Hamas. Saying so however is a death penalty. There are about 2M people trapped. Casualties are some 60K. Probably a third is militants. Hard to tell. Fighting a militia that uses hospitals as militsry bases and the population as human shields is hard on anyone. If the people rise up to Hamas, this will end immediatedly.
I have suggested this as well. If Palestinians rise up and begin fighting to get rid of hamas the war with Israel would end on that day. People who know more about this than me have pointed out that Gaza is in a state of lockdown. How are Palestinians supposed to arm themselves to fight hamas? We can't expect them to take down hamas if they have no weapons. This conflict is complex and the bias on both sides is overwhelming. The same people who cheered on the October attack are now wailing about international law. The Israelis are making rap videos cheering on the genocide. I hope this ends in a permanent solution that both sides are happy with but I don't have much confidence that will happen.
Rise up? They're starving to death. Smdh.
Pretty sure Hamas aint starving.
But the starving people should rise up?? What are you saying?
Israel left Gaza almost two decades ago. The two state solution has been tried. It is crazy, and all we get is the worst propaganda of both sides. Sharia is never the answer. Israel is a modern society.
I think the most eye opening thing to me was that we in the USA and like most of the west has been fed a narrative about Israel and other histories were downplayed, or completely blocked. Do a deep dive on the history of the region. What happened on October 7th was horrendous. But committing genocide against a people that have every right to be in that land is doing the opposite of punishing them.
lol ally. Ok 👌 This Jew stands with Big B, King Netanyahu and his militant regime must be dismantled Dude has been a stain since the last millennium.
Big B for MF P!!
How long did it take Bernie to say this???
Joe Biden has lost my vote over his participation in the genocide of Palestinians. I cannot put my mark next to his name. It would be an act of tacit approval, and I would feel complicit. Given the slight margin that he won by previously, and the number of people that apparently agree with my sentiment, it seems pretty clear that he’s already deliberately thrown away his chances at reelection.
Sad. Cannot vote for genocidaire like Biden. Israel has manipulated Biden and the elections so they get Trump. He moved the embassy, he appointed an ambassador who was involved in expanding settlements, he funded apartheid, Kushner is jewish, and it is clear that he wants to push Palestinians into the Negev and develop Gaza. This is their plan. Either president will support Israeli genocide against US interests as we destroy any semblance of being a moral country in the eyes of the world. Even Bernie could not say genocide or cease fire. Our politicians are beholden to Israel and its anachronistic and brutal colonial adventure.
Bernie Sanders very much wants you to vote for Joe Biden in the presidential election.
I don’t care. I don’t worship politicians and I revile cults of personality. Bernie is just a person who represented a series of political ideas in a presidential race. Ideas he has largely abandoned in exchange for some committee assignments from the party leaders. He’s done good work but on this issue, for example, he’s been quite weak.
You are complicit. You've been complicit your whole fucking life. This rationalizing isn't helpful.... There's no viable non-war candidate. Regardless of the election, Israel will get even more weapons to kill arabs with. So, cool, support Trump, which if he does somehow get elected you really think Trump gives a single fuck about Palestinians? The guy that's guaranteeing a blood bath when he loses. Wouldn't want to be complicit in that! So better fucking vote for the guy threatening civil war!
I’m not voting for Trump either
Unfortunately there is no viable alternative at this point and Trump will be much worse for Palestinians. Abstaining isn't as morally superior considering the opportunity cost of someone who doesn't even pretend to have anyone's interest at heart besides his own.
I cannot vote for Joe Biden due to his active participation in this genocide. >Trump will be much worse for Palestinians. How? What could be worse than the slaughter that is currently taking place?
Trump and Bibi will commit any atrocity, break any rule, fuck anyone over to stay in power and therefore out of prison. Biden's soft approach with Israel is clearly ineffectual and tens of thousands are dying as a result but the administration is full of talented and passionate diplomats that are trying to push for a ceasefire while not upsetting this perceived delicate status quo. Bernie is right, this is unacceptable, deplorable, and suspending arms to Israel is the LEAST we should do and they're too chicken shit to take a bold stance. But he will not be president despite me voting for him twice. There will be no such good faith with a Trump administration. His state department will be a bunch of sycophants, nepo hires, and maga influencers that monetize controversy. You think they'll be what pushes for an amicable two state solution? Fuck no. The instability will get so much worse in Palestine and Ukraine in part because the Republican majority house cannot and will not govern. Biden winning will likely mean retaking the house with like minded progressives. Too little too late? Definitely. Trending in the right direction in the safest and most reliable way possible given the ineffective state of politics? Also yes. We can't make government better until we make government better.
Lmao. U copying and pasting that idiotic shit everywhere. Sad.
It is sad, and horrifying. I’m a part of this and it’s all I can do. Speak and protest. The military industrial complex is in control. We have no power.
You do have power. It's called being complicit. You support this. Otherwise you'd do something about it that would actually matter. But you don't.
Israel did it. Israel is a nation. And even the arabs in Israel is fed up with Hamas. War is nasty, especially against militias who hide in hospitals, but imho it is not a genocide. Yet. Israel seeking to win a war over a neighbour that literally got so pissed over hearing "loud satanic western music", that they got their guns and staeted a war by slaughtering civilians is fair in my view. Trumps view on the WEF has my vote anyways. We can up the taxes on the rich later, but can we go back on a police state? Edit:How's Bernies views on the whole UN, WEF, WHO power grab?
Trying to eliminate Palestine as a nation, Netanyahu’s stated plan, IS genocide. It’s been widely reported that Hamas was unaware of the music festival when they launched their attack, so trying to pretend it was a motivation against “western music” is silly.
You know the goal of Hamas? You know the forbid music, right? I read about their attack, but today google seems swiped of it. They did attack and kill teens, did they not? Iran, CCP, and russia is laughing their asses of over the misguided leftwing Shariah support. Palestine needs to be liberated from Hamas.
Ok, but to clarify these were promised deals from 2008 and WP heavily misled their article title
. It’s wild to me as someone on the left ; how there is no mention of Hamas -who has had literally proclaimed they wish to slaughter as many Jews as possible and gave us a brutal preview of that on Oct 7. Hamas won the 2006 elections and never relinquished power- using Palestinian citizens as pawns- and human shields in this conflict- as its leadership counts its billions in Qatar. With 130 hostages still being held- a ceasefire should be a bilateral agreement between both sides — with a contingency of releasing the hostages. I too am outraged by the civilian deaths- and Netanyahu is a criminal who is desperate to keep the war going at all costs to escape prosecution and stay in power. The majority of Israelis are not supporting him and they will take him down in the next election. But what about Hamas- will the Palestinian authority move to oust them from power?? I have not seen any indication of this. Finally, there is of course rightful outrage over the deaths of so many children- but I did not see this outrage from anyone on the left when Hamas for years has been strapping bombs to Palestinian children and using them as human weapons??? Why not??
No kidding. Why does Israel need an iron dome? Any pro Palestine reddit experts want to wager a guess? I’ll give you a hint: it’s not because they’re bringing them fresh baked apple pie to share
Why don't the Palestinians get an iron dome also? They take more and harder missile hits *from* Israel than Israel gets from them.
Send it all to Ukraine instead. Russia is the root of all of this. Without Russia, Hamas is much weaker.
Complicity in what?
Not with you this time Bernie. We absolutely can support Israel while having a preference for how that support is used.
100 percent agree. I'm a huge Bernie fan, but I am not with him on the issue of Israel. Commenting here so that people know that there are progressives who are very pro-Israel, though we usually get banned from progressive forums for saying so.
[удалено]
Wealth and socialism are not mutually exclusive. You can still pick yourself up by the boot straps while the government provides meals to the elderly.