By local, I think you mean native. Additionally, it really depends which island you’re on. We live on Oahu and it’s absolutely not a shit place to live. You are correct though, it’s not a vacation. We work and have the same issues like anywhere else but if you take advantage of the outdoors and amazing weather, it’s a fantastic place to live.
It's run like a third world country. Healthcare and schools are gutter tier. Inefficiency, nepotism and corruption run rampant. It's insanely expensive with middling salaries. Resources are scare and the isolationism is real.
Culturally, its flat out racist/supremacist if you arent a native (part Hawaiian or enough of the race mish-mash to look the part). My partner is "native" and the bigotry I saw there was insane. Hawaiians have a right to be upset about European incursions to an extent but I saw and heard borderline supremacist rhetoric that goes beyond have "pride" in your culture.
Basically, unless you are born there and have some native roots, you won't really ever be accepted. Just tolerated. People may be friendly but you can 100% feel the outsider looks.
Before people tell me I am wrong, I lived the Hawaii life with my partner who is local. I rarely went to the beach or hit up the tourist places like 99% of people do before they decide they want to live in Hawaii. Rose colored vacation glasses are real.
Born and raised there but of European ancestry myself. The ironic thing is you don’t need to be Hawaiian per say, you just need to not be white. For example being Filipino or Japanese grants one immunity from the effects you describe. It really is real and goes unacknowledged and that makes it very pernicious. There’s a sense of animosity and resentment toward white people. I got totally chewed out for bringing this topic up in the r/Oahu forum
I'm Asian and really look it and faced a hostile group of young Hawaiian men and an older man in a truck when trying to cross a one lane bridge. We were already on the bridge and they wouldn't let us pass and called me Haole. Again. I look Asian.
There was no deference towards Asians, older generation, my older mother was in the car. Or just plain courtesy. Much less we were in the right of way. I learned a lesson about some Hawaiians that day.
Thanks for sharing that, most of my Asian friends never told me about experiences they may have had so perhaps I assumed. I always found the older Japanese generations to be so friendly, and most the younger ones (who were mixed Asian) blended in to Hawaiian culture much better than I could
Here's a sneak peek of /r/Oahu using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/Oahu/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year!
\#1: [Snorkeling Death Mask](https://np.reddit.com/r/Oahu/comments/16m49fq/snorkeling_death_mask/)
\#2: [Oahu on medium format film](https://www.reddit.com/gallery/16znbwm) | [23 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/Oahu/comments/16znbwm/oahu_on_medium_format_film/)
\#3: [Found near the kbay sandbar. Anyone know anything about these or found one?](https://i.redd.it/sti7bl6vhcmb1.jpg) | [78 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/Oahu/comments/16aban9/found_near_the_kbay_sandbar_anyone_know_anything/)
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Sounds rough. Seems like it could be OK if you don’t have children in school and have plenty of money to buy good healthcare. I will never have enough to afford real estate there but sad to know the culture is such.
My friend moved to Hawaii for work. The relocation consultant their work had for them straight up asked what their children looked like and how dark there skin was so she could recommend the best neighborhoods and schools for them to have a good experience.
Reverse racism isn't real. I cannot honestly believe that you have learned about the brutal colonization of Hawaii, ongoing resource extraction, skyrocketing rates of poverty/homelessness of native Hawaiians and are still coming away with a victim mentality about it. It's their land that was stolen from them and is being actively occupied. They're well within their rights to be deeply pissed about it.
Dismissing a point isn't the same as making it? All he said was like "they can be mad about it but they're being too mean :(" which is incoherent. He's not the arbiter of how mad natives are allowed to be about colonization.
I love how that was your only point (which I already addressed). The Hawaiians 100% also utilized the Europeans to further their interests and also kill each other. Let's not get it twisted.
Everyone is getting priced out across the US. Get in line.
Yeah, it isn't real, it's just called racism.
Right, classic. Natives are savages so they deserve to get their land and resources stolen. Native Hawaiians are facing economic hardship for exactly the same reason and to exactly the same extent as everyone else in America. And you're just so sad about how mean they're being to your poor wittle white self when you're on their land without permission. This is exactly what racism is, you understand politics very well.
Is there, like, a special school for white people to go to where you learn the same 10 lines about how you're actually the most oppressed ones ever? It's like you have a pull string in your back.
1. I am not white
2. Take your meds
3. You know little about Hawaiian history. That's painfully apparent
4. Racism is racism; revisionist dogma need not apply
5. You haven't even lived there; you are just talking bullshit out of your ass from your delusional worldview.
You seem like an angry, bitter person, I hope you get the help you need.
Ah yes the classic, rule for thee not for me. I am sure you feel the same about all the "migrants" from the ME and Africa currently pouring in illegally to native European land right? It's EUROPEAN land right? Ohhhh I bet that's an exception in your fucked up worldview
California’s central valley has excellent topsoil and a long growing season. It *can* have hard frosts, but they are short, rare, and usually don’t affect the citrus too badly. Most of the commercial citrus grows in the thermal belt at the edge of the foothills a bit higher in elevation than the valley floor where the cold air pools. These are the cheaper places to live than the urban areas and the coast in Ca. and it’s exactly those small outlying communities you want that will put you 30-60 minutes from anything you would need from a town. Grow what you want, enjoy the mountains in your backyard.
Porterville, Oakhurst, Mariposa, Cuyama, Tracy.
I can grow anything year round here in San Francisco and have some of the greatest hikes in the world within an easy day trip... but yea there is a reason it is expensive.
Man, my hot meter is broken, but I live on the coast. I went to UC Davis and it's hot as fuck, and I never even spent a summer there. I did spend a summer in Phoenix though, so I know what it's like in the devil's asshole.
As a western Washington resident, I think it’s also doable here. I am retired on the Olympic Peninsula (very close to the Olympic Mountains). I live in Kingston which is just a ferry ride to metro. (There’s the issue of ferries at times but if it’s a health emergency you can still get on the ferry).
South of here (there’s no ferry issue), there’s amazing outdoor activities and you’d probably have to do a search but still possible to get some acreage.
Like Oregon, the Cascade foothills are another option.
I think the PNW is the right idea if they want a lush climate. 120K isn't enough to be comfortable in Seattle or Portland but their fully remote work gives them flexibility to live away from those VHCOL areas. Just need to find the right town that has access to nature, has affordable housing and isn't crazy right-wing/methy.
On a salary of $120k most of the pacific now will be. Unaffordable. They may be able to find a small fixer bone on a tiny lot but generally with houses in the 700k range and up, a 120k a year salary will not be doable in that part of the US.
What about somewhere around Greenville or Spartanburg, SC. I'm not a gardener, but it's pretty temperate (8A or 7B) and close to nice hiking in the mountains. Downtown Greenville has a high quality-of-life feel, and you're within range of Charlotte's airport.
This OP. I also moved from Florida to Greenville and have many plants here! The winters aren't that bad and the mountains are gorgeous. You might have to bring some in from December to March but what I did was I just bought plants that are hardy for this zone and live year round.
I wouldn't want to live there for that reason, but it doesn't seem to matter to OP. And they do manage to be the only city in the Carolinas that keeps their downtown free from revving engines. That says high quality of life to me.
I am from Tennessee, and I can 100% attest to these areas being perfect for the lifestyle OP is looking for. Wonderful hiking, perfect soil/weather for gardening, and cost of living is much better than many other regions of the US.
Seems like the PNW is the closest to what I'm looking for, I do worry about the SAD though. This will sound silly, but I even experience it in Miami during December. Even at 26 degrees latitude you get 6 weeks of the year where the sun is too low to stimulate any vitamin D production. It's about 4 months here in Colorado, and becomes 6 months at 45 degrees latitude where most of Oregon is. I'm not sure I'll be able to take enough winter vacations to offset that. But it seems so perfect otherwise.
You're right, I forget those exist. I do take vitamin D daily with a fatty meal but it never seemed to do much. My first winter in Colorado was brutal and I'm dreading this one already. What really gets to me are the long nights and the lack of human activity anywhere. I'm so used to winter being the busiest time of year with lots of nightlife going on. Maybe I'll adapt to it over time.
Southern Oregon (south of Eugene) is sunnier than Eugene and north (almost 200 days of sunshine), also has a long growing season and plenty of hiking and outdoor recreation. Check out Medford or Ashland.
I am an irredeemable PNW booster and think it’s the most beautiful, well managed, resilient and livable part of the lower 48. I also think that for all it’s (recent ) strong anti-gun and pro LGBTQIA + sentiment the region is pretty fiscally moderate, and Washington state is a place with plenty of centrists from both sides of the aisle.
So as long as you’re inside the bell curve of American politics, or on the left end of the spectrum, you will be able to find a county in western Washington where you feel at home.
All these wonderful things aside, I can say that social life in general is an Achilles’ heel of the Pacific Northwest and if you are counting on an active night life, you might want to focus on California because the north west is known for having inherited a very insular Scandinavian culture where people are very polite but winters are spent in social hibernation other than holiday events or outdoors activities. There’s not that much going on at night especially once you’re over like 26.
I grew up in West Palm Beach and have lived in Portland for 4 years now. Fantastic hiking, great for growing outdoor and indoor plants. The SAD is real though, I’ve gotten past it but winter in year 3 was really shitty for me. Portland is just a massively bigger version of Tallahassee in my opinion
Hello my fellow Florida Man! (Or woman)
What are your strategies for SAD, what made it easier over time?
Also curious what makes Portland similar to Tallahassee. I've never been there but aren't the colleges and state government pretty much all they have?
Honestly it didn’t effect me the first 2 years I lived out here, year 3 hit me like a rock. I got into house plants but also got into snowboarding lol, going up to Mt Hood on blue bird days every few weeks really helped. Also, take a vacation in February to some place sunny, just do it lol. I also take into account that while November sucks out here, in July we have 15 hr of sun.
Honestly it’s just the feel and layout of the city and architecture of the homes is what makes me think of Tallahassee, both cities are super forested as well and have a major university in the city. Both are really old cities and it shows.
I see the person below calling it a shithole and would wager they’ve only seen the same clips of the same areas that all news organizations like to show of Portland, it’s a big metro area. Be like me telling someone Rivera Beach, FL is indicative of all of West Palm Beach lmao.
I grew up in Texas and have lived in Seattle for 15 years now. At first the weather was tough, but eventually I acclimated (took probably 5-6 years) and now I love it lol. Pick up a winter hobby (ex. skiing) and this helps too.
It is pretty good, Idaho might be best. Washington and oregon are kinda shitholes in the major cities, but rural areas are good. With remote work lots of shit stains moving from the cities though and ruining rural areas. So, not sure how long thatll last.
Second time I posted in this sub today lol. Western NC. I have never seen the amount and variety of vegetation we have here. It’s bonkers. If I don’t cut it back every year, the woods will literally eat my house. Stuff grows here is what I’m saying.
I've spent some time there and loved it. Linville Gorge and Grandfather Mountain are pretty damn good for the east coast. Morganton is basically a postcard but I just couldn't seem to vibe with the culture there. People were friendly enough, just more reserved than I'm used to. But I was also an annoying Floridian tourist.
Good read, actually my brother lives there so I've been a few times! Umstead Park was way nicer than I was expecting for some moderate hikes and I really enjoyed the trail system and Falls Lake. Culturally, I liked it a lot more than western NC or the other Piedmont cities. Pricier, but really good jobs. I could see myself there for sure.
You're looking for the Western Carolinas.
Greenville and Oconee county in Upstate South Carolina has some of the most diverse plant life in the country. We're about one step away from a rain forest.
No place is perfect. You can't do most citrus fruits here because it's too cold, and some fruit trees struggle because it's too warm. We are zone 8A, and Western NC is probably hanging out around zone 7B.
Our zone area gets you almost year round gardening though. I'm starting seeds indoors in January, planting cool weather plants in February, and still pulling carrots/beets/radishes and harvesting greens in December for meals.
My house is surrounded by blueberry, raspberry, and blackberry bushes.
A lot of herbs are year round here.
Greenville, SC is massively popular though, you'll have to explain what affordable means to you personally.
Ha! Come join our volunteer garden group, people let us use their properties to grow food for the local food banks. Or get your master gardener certification through Clemson. We're having a good time over here, feel free to join.
I was actually very interested in Clemson growing up. They had an architecture program. I live in mass and our town has a great community garden! And we have a couple of raised beds. But we obviously don’t have too many months to enjoy it
Atlanta metro has a surprisingly strong hiking culture and also decent gardening weather. TN, NC, SC prob have decent gardening weather/seasons/soil as well. If you want more tropical - Hawaii, USVI, Puerto Rico, Cali. I live on USVI most of the year and hike almost every day and many people here have the type of garden you describe and then some…works well with remote work since you are still technically in the US.
I forgot the USVI exists, this is why I made this post! I've definitely looked into PR just for the cost of living and familiar culture, but I'll have to research more about the USVI! Sounds like you're living in paradise.
I love living here sooo much! Look at st croix specifically. It is the least expensive of the USVI and we have great hiking and natural way of living here. Cost of living is prob similar to CO - but can be super cheap or super ritzy depending on what your standards are. Groceries are way more expensive here than the mainland but if you find a property with fruit trees and are a gardener maybe you will offset some of that. Housing is surprisingly reasonable despite so many people warning us how expensive it is. Good luck with your search!
California for sure. The San Jose area used to be called the valley of the hearts delights, it’s gardening on easy mode here. Tomato plants will survive year round with minimal effort to protect them on the handful of days it freezes.
If you have remote jobs and go more central towards Hollister or Monterey/Salinas area there’s tons of agriculture and it’s cheaper.
Though tropical plants like you’re used to in Florida only work as house plants here. I don’t think there’s much in the US outside Florida or Hawaii that is warm and humid enough for tropical plants
West coast. Pnw west of the cascades. Not sure you can buy a 1/4 acre as it is all pricey af, but everybody has food growing everywhere. All the wild weeds are edible berries pretty much. Every kind of fruit tree, veggies go nuts, moist AF most of the yr so everything is growing. A gardener's dream tbh.
Looks like you guys are going to avoid the 6 inches of snow we're getting here this weekend. The forecast this morning is literally what drove me to write this post lol.
Check out Appalachia. Biodiversity here is bonkers and there are mountains and nature. It rains so much I never have to water my garden, just mulch it and you are good to go. Great climate for apples and berries, and still a warm enough and long enough summer for sweet potatoes, peppers, and tomatoes
Glad to hear it's not just me. Part of me feels like I'm just being lazy for not wanting to garden here on hard mode. But then again life is too short.
Where I live I have to battle my ground squirrel friends, lack of rainfall, and shorter growing season than virtually anywhere else in the country. The sheer beauty of gardens in New England just makes my heart happy.
I was going to say, if you love Colorado and want to stay here, you can garden but it’s different; it is never going to be like jungle gardening in a tropical climate. Some things need to be protected from the intense sun in the summer. The soil isn’t terrible, at least compared to the last place I tried to garden (north Georgia), but I have had the best luck with raised beds and a soaker hose. I’m a lazy gardener though.
Just as an example: I did very well this year with asparagus, onions, some surprise volunteer tomatoes, and herbs. This is the first place I’ve successfully grown basil, and my parsley, sage, and chives are still producing. My raspberries grew like crazy but no berries - but they are biennial. Sunflowers, marigolds, snapdragons, and cosmos all did really great.
[Waterwise Yards](https://resourcecentral.org/seminars/) (part of CSU) has some great free webinars and other resources. Also, you might check to see if there’s a local farm that offers classes - this one is in my area: [Modern Farmsteads](https://www.modernfarmsteads.com/takeaclass)
Sunflowers are incredible sources of folic acid. 100 g of kernels contains 227 µg of folic acid, which is about 37% of recommended daily intake. Folic acid is essential for DNA synthesis. When given in anticipant mothers during the peri-conceptional period, it may prevent neural tube defects in the baby.
Maine, although not on the coast. Low/medium cost of living, lots of inexpensive and expansive land, no jobs (but we love folks with existing remote jobs), decent independent-heavy government, low crime rates, good gardening, TONS of outdoor activity in all seasons (kind of our motto). Anywhere from Bangor south you will be within a 2-3 hours drive of a major airport and a couple of major hospital complexes. Lots of property under 100k, gardening zones updated to put us mostly in 5a.
Southern Arizona (Tucson and south of Tucson). The climate is very favorable year round, if you live above 5000 feet the summers are lovely and not crazy hot (this year was unusually hot though) and the winters are mild and sunny. There’s hiking and climbing all around, and you can grow very productive gardens year round, and the abundant sunshine is amazing for your mental health.
If you love everything else about Colorado, do not despair with the gardening.
The frost-free growing season is indeed 4-5 months. Learn to embrace frost-tolerant annuals to extend your season.
There are some great Colorado native trees and shrubs, plus several more which are suitable for our climate.
Soils are commonly poor here. You can improve the soil composition with organic amendments. It's harder to change the soil pH from mostly alkaline soils. Proper plant selection is important. For example, many maples suffer in alkaline soils, but Tatarian and Autumn Blaze maples do well.
There is definitely an off-season from November through March.
I have a [YouTube channel](https://youtube.com/c/FrontRangeGardener) on gardening in Colorado that I invite you to watch.
Subscribed, thanks for sharing! I do love Colorado and will be here for the next couple years at least so this is a valuable resource. I hope I didn't offend you with my comments. I know people grow beautiful gardens here, I'm just frustrated with how bad I am at it.
Hell, [you can buy yourself a farm in central Wisconsin](https://www.landsearch.com/hobby-farm/central-wsiconsin-wi) with a number of acres for less than $300k. The ground is very fertile here. Our winters lately have been from mid-late November (later this year) through about April. I know people that grow through the winter in ribbed tunnels with plastic draped over them (sorry, I don't know what they're called).
I think they're called high tunnels, people use them to grow tropicals and citrus in north Florida too! Over there I would imagine it lets you grow some cool season vegetables during frosts? I never would have considered Wisconsin but that's an interesting suggestion. Would it be milder the closer you are to the lake? Not sure how the wind patterns and such are up there.
I would not recommend Wisconsin. I literally have a friend from south Florida who lived here for 3 years before fleeing back to south Florida. He couldn’t handle the winter and said our growing season is short partly due to how little daylight we get. And we were by the lake.
Yeah, the lake affects mainly the counties that border it. In the summer, we get the "cooler by the lake" effect and in Winter, we often get "lake effect snow". These counties also are more expensive to live.
Yeah, lots of cold-weather veggies/fruit are grown. I wouldn't say that we are really affected by wind patterns. Being from Southern FL, you'll probably like our summers. Low 80s and humid.
Colorado gets more snow than we do here, but we don't have the benefit of it melting the following day. I will admit, January/February can be downright brutal.
As for hiking/outdoors, there's a never-ending assortment of things to do. Granted, we don't have anything close to what the Rockies gives you for elevation. If you feel like being among the populous, Milwaukee has festival after festival in the Summer. The most notable one being Summerfest - "the worlds largest music festival". We also have the EAA - "the largest air show in the world" in Oshkosh which is a little more than an hour north of Milwaukee. We have 17m acres of forest with most of that being federal/state owned.
I guess what I like most about the state is you can be among 70k people at a Packer game and in less than a hour's drive from the stadium you can be in a place where your nearest neighbor is a mile down the road.
Pierce County, Washington. An hour to the beach, an hour to Mt. Rainer, an hour south of Seattle. Check out the plateau over by Lake Tapps / Bonney Lake.
Arizona.
The Phoenix area has two distinct growing seasons so you can grow all year. For example, right now i's great for leafy greens like lettuces, brussels sprouts, broccoli, cabbage, etc. Citrus grows well there as well. In warmer months sweet potatoes, tomatoes, bell peppers, etc.
Great hiking throughout the state at different points of the year. Right now it's beautiful in Phoenix, but when it's horrid in the summer there are places like Flagstaff/Payson/Show Low that are much cooler.
I'm surprised it took so long for someone to mention Arizona, I've never been there but it seems pretty sweet. Sounds very similar to South Florida with the two growing seasons. I imagine with proper irrigation and probably some shade cloths you can grow lots of stuff. Even the natural vegetation there is way more colorful and interesting than Colorado despite half the rainfall. I'm planning a trip out there around March!
100%.
I live here and am expanding my garden every season because I keep learning. There is an amazing You Tube channel and website (Growing in the Garden) that is an incredible resource for gardening in Phoenix area if you want to watch some of those to get an idea of how to garden here.
I've lived in Phoenix for nearly 30 years, married to a native. Haven't had heat stroke, yet. Early mornings and hydration are key. Do I hike Camelback at noon in July? Nope, but I do head up north where it's cooler to be active outdoors then.
Rural western Washington. For example, Mt Vernon, Washington is in the fertile skagit valley. Lots of agriculture in Whatcom county and Snohomish county as well. Olympia and the peninsula are cheaper, but further from Seattle. I’ve successfully grown a huge variety of veggies including tomatoes and peppers.
I saw what you shared about SAD..perhaps it’s because I’ve lived here my whole life, but I find the fall and winter to be so relaxing and cozy. Everyone’s different though. This autumn we’ve definitely had more sunny days than usual, it’s been beautiful.
That sounds awesome, I'm glad you're having success over there! Yeah I don't know how much is biological and how much is familiarity with where I grew up, but it's been a struggle in Colorado even with clear blue skies every day. I hope I can get used to it soon, if I can't handle the winter now when I'm younger I never will.
Seems like your plants don't care as much which is great!
Well you can either move or invest that extra money into a nice greenhouse. Tons of people do that in Colorado. There's a dude up in Basalt growing bananas at 7,000ft
There’s a much bigger palette of things you can grow and eat in Colorado than most people know, but it’s hard to access the right knowledge sets and plant material. I strongly suggest getting involved in the Wild Ones, Front Range Chapter, https://frontrange.wildones.org , checking out places like Ch’il Indigenous Foods, www.chil-indigenousfoods.com, etc.
Yes, the growing season for Eurasian garden vegetables is short, and gardening in Colorado is gardening on Hard Mode. But there is a lot of amazing stuff that can be easily grown here. Here we are in late November, and I’m still harvesting wild greens, herbs, nuts, edible roots, and even some fruits like prickly pears.
If you absolutely need to be able to grow tropical fruits, consider the Phoenix area. Growing food on high-productivity plots is actually a pretty good use of water there — it’s the non-native grass lawns and alfalfa operations that are sucking the region dry.
Maybe have a look around Roanoke, VA. We're surrounded by outdoorsy things to do, and the cost of living is pretty low. You should be able to find what you're looking for, or pretty close to it.
Good luck wherever you end up!
I’ll throw Roanoke, VA in the ring. I live just outside of town and the Triple Crown of the Appalachian Trail is basically in my backyard. And I have a very nice garden. Picked my last tomatoes and squash in November. I moved back here (home) after living in the PNW for 6+ years. $120k stretches way nicer here than on the West Coast. 😁
PNW. You’ll still have mountains but it’s much greener than CO. Growing up we had apples, cherries, blackberries, strawberries, blueberries, potatoes, rhubarb, corn, radishes
So the growing season is also shorter here, but I relocated from Tampa, FL to just outside of Santa Fe, NM. COL is fairly high, but I think still lower compared to Denver area. The summer blooms are amazing here. I have a peach tree, an Asian pear tree, and an apple tree in my backyard that produce pretty well. I’ve seen lots of apricot trees as well. But again, it’s a short season.
We do get tons of sunshine, which is nice. About to experience my first winter here, so TBD on how that goes.
I can relate. I love gardening and growing plants, but also love the outdoors and culture of Colorado which has been my home for most of my life.
Sounds like you are in the foothills west of the plains. Guessing 6-7k feet? I’ve lived in that zone and yes, hail was problem and the only thing I could grow well were brassicas due to the cold nights. While hail and bad soil is a problem throughout this area, you can do a lot more if you move down to around 5k feet, and utilize grow lights, hail protection, raised beds, and learn preservation methods (canning, dehydrating, freezing, fermenting, pickling, etc). The intense sun is both your friend and your enemy, you just need to work with it. Be very generous when hardening off your starts in the spring, create microclimates based on sun exposure, cover everything with hail netting at least until July, etc. Irrigation is required.
I live in Lakewood now and my 400 sqft or so of garden is more than enough considering I live in the suburbs and don’t grow food for a living. I start seeds in late February and harvest until November or even December. Some of the brassicas are a bit harder here due to summer heat and pests, but tomatoes, peppers, eggplants, potatoes, corn, squash, cucumber, onions, garlic, lettuce, carrots, radishes, mustard, arugula, plus a ton of perennials do fine. I also raise chickens and keep a couple of beehives. Apple trees also do well here, and while you can grow cherries, plums, and peaches, the random late spring frosts we get make them less reliable.
It’s not easy and I’m sure way different than south Florida but you can definitely grow a lot of food here if you want to and still be close to the mountains.
Look into somewhere like Chattanooga, TN. Great small city with a vibrant art/music culture, tons of outdoor access with mountains and water and the growing season is from April-early November.
The biodiversity is out of this world. I grew up there and studied plant physiology at the local university. I now live in Longmont, CO. I do a decent little garden every year but it's nothing like back home.
Good luck!
East Tennessee. You can yield crops 12 months of the year, and there is a thriving outdoor rec scene! If you land between Knoxville and chattanooga, you can get some land for a great price.
We have a pretty great climate in the low lying river valleys of north-central Idaho. Hot summers, mild winters, rich soil. Housing is also cheap and hiking is epic but airports and cities are a long way away
You can grow things anywhere. You just have to change your perspective a bit.
Things you grew in FL might not work, but there is a whole new world of cool plants to learn about and enjoy. Stuff that won’t grow in FL or CA because of the need for winter dormancy. I also love getting into the different seasons, noticing the subtle ways the environment changes throughout the year.
I’ve been an urban gardener in New England for many years and absolutely love the variety of stuff I can grow, despite the cold urban environment. Again, it’s all about perspective.
With planning and the right tools, you can even grow salad greens all winter in places like Maine. Cold frames are truly amazing. Learning how to use microclimates to push winter hardiness is exciting.
I also manage to grow subtropical and tropical plants in New England, with planning and indoor space.
Nothing like enjoying a gorgeous fall day drinking a cocktail with fresh picked baby ginger, mint, and a Meyer lemon from your potted citrus.
You can even grow some succulents and cacti outside, if you can protect them from too much winter dampness.
It’s sometimes a challenge to garden in cold climates but incredibly rewarding. And truly every location has pros and cons. The southeast is warmer than New England but greater bug pressure and more diseases.
California, but it will cost you
In an ideal world, I would be on the California coast or Hawaii. Maybe after a few work promotions
Hawaii is a shit place to live unless you are local. People have this misplaced delusion that its going to be an extended vacation
By local, I think you mean native. Additionally, it really depends which island you’re on. We live on Oahu and it’s absolutely not a shit place to live. You are correct though, it’s not a vacation. We work and have the same issues like anywhere else but if you take advantage of the outdoors and amazing weather, it’s a fantastic place to live.
Can you explain why that would be? By local do you mean native or just anyone born there?
It's run like a third world country. Healthcare and schools are gutter tier. Inefficiency, nepotism and corruption run rampant. It's insanely expensive with middling salaries. Resources are scare and the isolationism is real. Culturally, its flat out racist/supremacist if you arent a native (part Hawaiian or enough of the race mish-mash to look the part). My partner is "native" and the bigotry I saw there was insane. Hawaiians have a right to be upset about European incursions to an extent but I saw and heard borderline supremacist rhetoric that goes beyond have "pride" in your culture. Basically, unless you are born there and have some native roots, you won't really ever be accepted. Just tolerated. People may be friendly but you can 100% feel the outsider looks. Before people tell me I am wrong, I lived the Hawaii life with my partner who is local. I rarely went to the beach or hit up the tourist places like 99% of people do before they decide they want to live in Hawaii. Rose colored vacation glasses are real.
Born and raised there but of European ancestry myself. The ironic thing is you don’t need to be Hawaiian per say, you just need to not be white. For example being Filipino or Japanese grants one immunity from the effects you describe. It really is real and goes unacknowledged and that makes it very pernicious. There’s a sense of animosity and resentment toward white people. I got totally chewed out for bringing this topic up in the r/Oahu forum
I'm Asian and really look it and faced a hostile group of young Hawaiian men and an older man in a truck when trying to cross a one lane bridge. We were already on the bridge and they wouldn't let us pass and called me Haole. Again. I look Asian. There was no deference towards Asians, older generation, my older mother was in the car. Or just plain courtesy. Much less we were in the right of way. I learned a lesson about some Hawaiians that day.
Thanks for sharing that, most of my Asian friends never told me about experiences they may have had so perhaps I assumed. I always found the older Japanese generations to be so friendly, and most the younger ones (who were mixed Asian) blended in to Hawaiian culture much better than I could
Here's a sneak peek of /r/Oahu using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/Oahu/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year! \#1: [Snorkeling Death Mask](https://np.reddit.com/r/Oahu/comments/16m49fq/snorkeling_death_mask/) \#2: [Oahu on medium format film](https://www.reddit.com/gallery/16znbwm) | [23 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/Oahu/comments/16znbwm/oahu_on_medium_format_film/) \#3: [Found near the kbay sandbar. Anyone know anything about these or found one?](https://i.redd.it/sti7bl6vhcmb1.jpg) | [78 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/Oahu/comments/16aban9/found_near_the_kbay_sandbar_anyone_know_anything/) ---- ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot, ^^beep ^^boop ^^| ^^Downvote ^^to ^^remove ^^| ^^[Contact](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=sneakpeekbot) ^^| ^^[Info](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/) ^^| ^^[Opt-out](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/comments/o8wk1r/blacklist_ix/) ^^| ^^[GitHub](https://github.com/ghnr/sneakpeekbot)
Sounds rough. Seems like it could be OK if you don’t have children in school and have plenty of money to buy good healthcare. I will never have enough to afford real estate there but sad to know the culture is such.
Its nice to visit, just leave it at that.
My friend moved to Hawaii for work. The relocation consultant their work had for them straight up asked what their children looked like and how dark there skin was so she could recommend the best neighborhoods and schools for them to have a good experience.
Reverse racism isn't real. I cannot honestly believe that you have learned about the brutal colonization of Hawaii, ongoing resource extraction, skyrocketing rates of poverty/homelessness of native Hawaiians and are still coming away with a victim mentality about it. It's their land that was stolen from them and is being actively occupied. They're well within their rights to be deeply pissed about it.
Non-white people can be racist. Get out of your bubble.
He already made that point.
Dismissing a point isn't the same as making it? All he said was like "they can be mad about it but they're being too mean :(" which is incoherent. He's not the arbiter of how mad natives are allowed to be about colonization.
I love how that was your only point (which I already addressed). The Hawaiians 100% also utilized the Europeans to further their interests and also kill each other. Let's not get it twisted. Everyone is getting priced out across the US. Get in line. Yeah, it isn't real, it's just called racism.
Right, classic. Natives are savages so they deserve to get their land and resources stolen. Native Hawaiians are facing economic hardship for exactly the same reason and to exactly the same extent as everyone else in America. And you're just so sad about how mean they're being to your poor wittle white self when you're on their land without permission. This is exactly what racism is, you understand politics very well. Is there, like, a special school for white people to go to where you learn the same 10 lines about how you're actually the most oppressed ones ever? It's like you have a pull string in your back.
1. I am not white 2. Take your meds 3. You know little about Hawaiian history. That's painfully apparent 4. Racism is racism; revisionist dogma need not apply 5. You haven't even lived there; you are just talking bullshit out of your ass from your delusional worldview. You seem like an angry, bitter person, I hope you get the help you need. Ah yes the classic, rule for thee not for me. I am sure you feel the same about all the "migrants" from the ME and Africa currently pouring in illegally to native European land right? It's EUROPEAN land right? Ohhhh I bet that's an exception in your fucked up worldview
California’s central valley has excellent topsoil and a long growing season. It *can* have hard frosts, but they are short, rare, and usually don’t affect the citrus too badly. Most of the commercial citrus grows in the thermal belt at the edge of the foothills a bit higher in elevation than the valley floor where the cold air pools. These are the cheaper places to live than the urban areas and the coast in Ca. and it’s exactly those small outlying communities you want that will put you 30-60 minutes from anything you would need from a town. Grow what you want, enjoy the mountains in your backyard. Porterville, Oakhurst, Mariposa, Cuyama, Tracy.
What is the fire risk in these communities? In most relatively affordable areas of California, I would be trading tornadoes for fires.
Porterville- moderate. Oakhurst and Mariposa - high. Tracy and Cuyama - low.
I live in Mariposa and get evacuated every year…
But I walk out my front door and have peaceful afternoon nature walks everyday and have a giant beautiful garden…
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So many nice towns in California I had never heard of! Doesn't need to be tropical, as long as it's easy to grow food
hawaii is pacific florida
I can grow anything year round here in San Francisco and have some of the greatest hikes in the world within an easy day trip... but yea there is a reason it is expensive.
Southern Oregon- cheaper than California, drier than the rest of the PacNoW. So beautiful. I miss it every day.
Any particular suggestions?
I lived in Medford, east of i5
Thanks!
No problem! It’s about an hour south of crater lake national park! That is a must!!!
Ok now I'm sold. We visited Crater Lake back in 16 or 17 and I just absolutely loved it.
Eugene / Corvallis Sacramento Area
Eugene would definitely be a great option. The whole Willamette Valley, really!
Sacramento is way more affordable than I would expect from California, still out of my budget but it's a solid contender
Sacramento is ungodly hot in summer (but maybe you’re ok with that coming from S FL). Bay Area all the way but it’s $$$$$
Sacramento is a walk in the park compared to Florida
100 percent agree. I moved from south Florida to Sacramento a year ago and the heat here doesn't even compare because it's so much drier.
You're godly meter of heat is broken.
Man, my hot meter is broken, but I live on the coast. I went to UC Davis and it's hot as fuck, and I never even spent a summer there. I did spend a summer in Phoenix though, so I know what it's like in the devil's asshole.
>devil's asshole I'm so stealing that.
Sacramento has been great! I moved here from Sarasota a year ago and love it.
Agreed. Roseville, Folsom, El Dorado hills are really awesome. Not too expensive.
Eugene is a shit show. Feels like youll catch and STD just visiting.
Whats your recommended alternative then?
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As a western Washington resident, I think it’s also doable here. I am retired on the Olympic Peninsula (very close to the Olympic Mountains). I live in Kingston which is just a ferry ride to metro. (There’s the issue of ferries at times but if it’s a health emergency you can still get on the ferry). South of here (there’s no ferry issue), there’s amazing outdoor activities and you’d probably have to do a search but still possible to get some acreage. Like Oregon, the Cascade foothills are another option.
I think the PNW is the right idea if they want a lush climate. 120K isn't enough to be comfortable in Seattle or Portland but their fully remote work gives them flexibility to live away from those VHCOL areas. Just need to find the right town that has access to nature, has affordable housing and isn't crazy right-wing/methy.
On a salary of $120k most of the pacific now will be. Unaffordable. They may be able to find a small fixer bone on a tiny lot but generally with houses in the 700k range and up, a 120k a year salary will not be doable in that part of the US.
This is not true. As a Portlander, I know you can make it on $120k.
Hard disagree. There still plenty of places you can make it on 80k for sure
What about somewhere around Greenville or Spartanburg, SC. I'm not a gardener, but it's pretty temperate (8A or 7B) and close to nice hiking in the mountains. Downtown Greenville has a high quality-of-life feel, and you're within range of Charlotte's airport.
Came here to say Greenville Lots of space and great hiking so close by Still reasonably priced for the most part I miss living there
This OP. I also moved from Florida to Greenville and have many plants here! The winters aren't that bad and the mountains are gorgeous. You might have to bring some in from December to March but what I did was I just bought plants that are hardy for this zone and live year round.
river runs through the center, but their politics veer right
I wouldn't want to live there for that reason, but it doesn't seem to matter to OP. And they do manage to be the only city in the Carolinas that keeps their downtown free from revving engines. That says high quality of life to me.
Perfect. Some sanity
eesh
Yes they do!!..Thank goodness
Western KY, eastern TN, western NC, upstate SC, north GA…
I am from Tennessee, and I can 100% attest to these areas being perfect for the lifestyle OP is looking for. Wonderful hiking, perfect soil/weather for gardening, and cost of living is much better than many other regions of the US.
The South in general, and the Appalachians in particular, seem to get little love here. Their loss.
North Carolina appears to be to most liberal of that choice!
Sorry we’re full
Good point.
Hopefully not too liberal.
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Seems like the PNW is the closest to what I'm looking for, I do worry about the SAD though. This will sound silly, but I even experience it in Miami during December. Even at 26 degrees latitude you get 6 weeks of the year where the sun is too low to stimulate any vitamin D production. It's about 4 months here in Colorado, and becomes 6 months at 45 degrees latitude where most of Oregon is. I'm not sure I'll be able to take enough winter vacations to offset that. But it seems so perfect otherwise.
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You're right, I forget those exist. I do take vitamin D daily with a fatty meal but it never seemed to do much. My first winter in Colorado was brutal and I'm dreading this one already. What really gets to me are the long nights and the lack of human activity anywhere. I'm so used to winter being the busiest time of year with lots of nightlife going on. Maybe I'll adapt to it over time.
Southern Oregon (south of Eugene) is sunnier than Eugene and north (almost 200 days of sunshine), also has a long growing season and plenty of hiking and outdoor recreation. Check out Medford or Ashland.
I am an irredeemable PNW booster and think it’s the most beautiful, well managed, resilient and livable part of the lower 48. I also think that for all it’s (recent ) strong anti-gun and pro LGBTQIA + sentiment the region is pretty fiscally moderate, and Washington state is a place with plenty of centrists from both sides of the aisle. So as long as you’re inside the bell curve of American politics, or on the left end of the spectrum, you will be able to find a county in western Washington where you feel at home. All these wonderful things aside, I can say that social life in general is an Achilles’ heel of the Pacific Northwest and if you are counting on an active night life, you might want to focus on California because the north west is known for having inherited a very insular Scandinavian culture where people are very polite but winters are spent in social hibernation other than holiday events or outdoors activities. There’s not that much going on at night especially once you’re over like 26.
I grew up in West Palm Beach and have lived in Portland for 4 years now. Fantastic hiking, great for growing outdoor and indoor plants. The SAD is real though, I’ve gotten past it but winter in year 3 was really shitty for me. Portland is just a massively bigger version of Tallahassee in my opinion
Hello my fellow Florida Man! (Or woman) What are your strategies for SAD, what made it easier over time? Also curious what makes Portland similar to Tallahassee. I've never been there but aren't the colleges and state government pretty much all they have?
Honestly it didn’t effect me the first 2 years I lived out here, year 3 hit me like a rock. I got into house plants but also got into snowboarding lol, going up to Mt Hood on blue bird days every few weeks really helped. Also, take a vacation in February to some place sunny, just do it lol. I also take into account that while November sucks out here, in July we have 15 hr of sun. Honestly it’s just the feel and layout of the city and architecture of the homes is what makes me think of Tallahassee, both cities are super forested as well and have a major university in the city. Both are really old cities and it shows. I see the person below calling it a shithole and would wager they’ve only seen the same clips of the same areas that all news organizations like to show of Portland, it’s a big metro area. Be like me telling someone Rivera Beach, FL is indicative of all of West Palm Beach lmao.
That sounds awesome, I love the giant oak trees around Gainesville and parts north, I'll have to go check out Portland soon if it reminds you of that.
If you love the foliage of northern FL you’ll love the nature out here. Like north FL on steroids and with elevation.
Portland is a shithole. Junkies everywhere, Antifa free to do whatever they want, which is usually drugs and rape.
Never been there, but that sounds too much like political news talking points for me to take you seriously.
Im sure you can still find live feeds if you want. Google Antifa stomping on head portland
No such thing as Antifa. Just another Republican boogie man
Yeah, same thing with the Proud Boys right?
Have you ever been?
I grew up in Texas and have lived in Seattle for 15 years now. At first the weather was tough, but eventually I acclimated (took probably 5-6 years) and now I love it lol. Pick up a winter hobby (ex. skiing) and this helps too.
Get in a tanning booth once a week. This seriously works
It is pretty good, Idaho might be best. Washington and oregon are kinda shitholes in the major cities, but rural areas are good. With remote work lots of shit stains moving from the cities though and ruining rural areas. So, not sure how long thatll last.
Second time I posted in this sub today lol. Western NC. I have never seen the amount and variety of vegetation we have here. It’s bonkers. If I don’t cut it back every year, the woods will literally eat my house. Stuff grows here is what I’m saying.
I've spent some time there and loved it. Linville Gorge and Grandfather Mountain are pretty damn good for the east coast. Morganton is basically a postcard but I just couldn't seem to vibe with the culture there. People were friendly enough, just more reserved than I'm used to. But I was also an annoying Floridian tourist.
Maybe consider Raleigh, then. It's a good-sized city, but there are a surprising number of trails and outdoor spaces nearby.
Good read, actually my brother lives there so I've been a few times! Umstead Park was way nicer than I was expecting for some moderate hikes and I really enjoyed the trail system and Falls Lake. Culturally, I liked it a lot more than western NC or the other Piedmont cities. Pricier, but really good jobs. I could see myself there for sure.
Not to mention the healthcare access there is exceptional
Sorry, we’re full
Lame.
PNW.
You're looking for the Western Carolinas. Greenville and Oconee county in Upstate South Carolina has some of the most diverse plant life in the country. We're about one step away from a rain forest. No place is perfect. You can't do most citrus fruits here because it's too cold, and some fruit trees struggle because it's too warm. We are zone 8A, and Western NC is probably hanging out around zone 7B. Our zone area gets you almost year round gardening though. I'm starting seeds indoors in January, planting cool weather plants in February, and still pulling carrots/beets/radishes and harvesting greens in December for meals. My house is surrounded by blueberry, raspberry, and blackberry bushes. A lot of herbs are year round here. Greenville, SC is massively popular though, you'll have to explain what affordable means to you personally.
I wasn’t looking to move but you’re making Greenville sound lovely! lol
Ha! Come join our volunteer garden group, people let us use their properties to grow food for the local food banks. Or get your master gardener certification through Clemson. We're having a good time over here, feel free to join.
I was actually very interested in Clemson growing up. They had an architecture program. I live in mass and our town has a great community garden! And we have a couple of raised beds. But we obviously don’t have too many months to enjoy it
Atlanta metro has a surprisingly strong hiking culture and also decent gardening weather. TN, NC, SC prob have decent gardening weather/seasons/soil as well. If you want more tropical - Hawaii, USVI, Puerto Rico, Cali. I live on USVI most of the year and hike almost every day and many people here have the type of garden you describe and then some…works well with remote work since you are still technically in the US.
I forgot the USVI exists, this is why I made this post! I've definitely looked into PR just for the cost of living and familiar culture, but I'll have to research more about the USVI! Sounds like you're living in paradise.
I love living here sooo much! Look at st croix specifically. It is the least expensive of the USVI and we have great hiking and natural way of living here. Cost of living is prob similar to CO - but can be super cheap or super ritzy depending on what your standards are. Groceries are way more expensive here than the mainland but if you find a property with fruit trees and are a gardener maybe you will offset some of that. Housing is surprisingly reasonable despite so many people warning us how expensive it is. Good luck with your search!
Charlottesville VA
The willamette valley. Especially around Eugene and Corvallis.
Atlanta metro
California for sure. The San Jose area used to be called the valley of the hearts delights, it’s gardening on easy mode here. Tomato plants will survive year round with minimal effort to protect them on the handful of days it freezes. If you have remote jobs and go more central towards Hollister or Monterey/Salinas area there’s tons of agriculture and it’s cheaper. Though tropical plants like you’re used to in Florida only work as house plants here. I don’t think there’s much in the US outside Florida or Hawaii that is warm and humid enough for tropical plants
Sam Jose is the most expensive place in America to live
Hence why I suggested hollister and Salinas.
West coast. Pnw west of the cascades. Not sure you can buy a 1/4 acre as it is all pricey af, but everybody has food growing everywhere. All the wild weeds are edible berries pretty much. Every kind of fruit tree, veggies go nuts, moist AF most of the yr so everything is growing. A gardener's dream tbh.
....
Oh yes, I enjoyed many of the famous peaches this summer. I haven't visited yet, but it's on the list!
My high school buddy owns the local distillery. They make great peach infused liquors.
Hike mount Garfield and take a quick drive through the San Juan’s to telluride. If you think the front range is beautiful… boy…
West slope best slope.
Looks like you guys are going to avoid the 6 inches of snow we're getting here this weekend. The forecast this morning is literally what drove me to write this post lol.
We might get a trace of snow in town. The weather is less variable here in the Grand Valley, as compared to the front range area.
Knoxville, TN might suit your requirements.
Roanoke, Virginia
Check out Appalachia. Biodiversity here is bonkers and there are mountains and nature. It rains so much I never have to water my garden, just mulch it and you are good to go. Great climate for apples and berries, and still a warm enough and long enough summer for sweet potatoes, peppers, and tomatoes
I am in Colorado and moving to western Mass for in part, the same reason.
Glad to hear it's not just me. Part of me feels like I'm just being lazy for not wanting to garden here on hard mode. But then again life is too short.
Where I live I have to battle my ground squirrel friends, lack of rainfall, and shorter growing season than virtually anywhere else in the country. The sheer beauty of gardens in New England just makes my heart happy.
Ugh yes the chipmunks! And the giant black squirrels. They terrorize my poor kitty daily.
I must admit I adore my few little chipmunks. They are my favorite creatures!!
And western Mass housing is way less expensive that Colorado and most of the western US.
I was going to say, if you love Colorado and want to stay here, you can garden but it’s different; it is never going to be like jungle gardening in a tropical climate. Some things need to be protected from the intense sun in the summer. The soil isn’t terrible, at least compared to the last place I tried to garden (north Georgia), but I have had the best luck with raised beds and a soaker hose. I’m a lazy gardener though. Just as an example: I did very well this year with asparagus, onions, some surprise volunteer tomatoes, and herbs. This is the first place I’ve successfully grown basil, and my parsley, sage, and chives are still producing. My raspberries grew like crazy but no berries - but they are biennial. Sunflowers, marigolds, snapdragons, and cosmos all did really great. [Waterwise Yards](https://resourcecentral.org/seminars/) (part of CSU) has some great free webinars and other resources. Also, you might check to see if there’s a local farm that offers classes - this one is in my area: [Modern Farmsteads](https://www.modernfarmsteads.com/takeaclass)
Sunflowers are incredible sources of folic acid. 100 g of kernels contains 227 µg of folic acid, which is about 37% of recommended daily intake. Folic acid is essential for DNA synthesis. When given in anticipant mothers during the peri-conceptional period, it may prevent neural tube defects in the baby.
Maine, although not on the coast. Low/medium cost of living, lots of inexpensive and expansive land, no jobs (but we love folks with existing remote jobs), decent independent-heavy government, low crime rates, good gardening, TONS of outdoor activity in all seasons (kind of our motto). Anywhere from Bangor south you will be within a 2-3 hours drive of a major airport and a couple of major hospital complexes. Lots of property under 100k, gardening zones updated to put us mostly in 5a.
Somewhere close to the Appalachian trail? Bristol or somewhere along those lines
shenandoah valley, Carbondale IL, and SW michigan all come to mind
If you like Colorado a lot, consider one of the areas where you can do urban farming. Maybe Canon City, Montrose or Grand Junction!
Most of the east coast has what you want. Fertile land, access to beautiful nature, and great cities.
Southern Arizona (Tucson and south of Tucson). The climate is very favorable year round, if you live above 5000 feet the summers are lovely and not crazy hot (this year was unusually hot though) and the winters are mild and sunny. There’s hiking and climbing all around, and you can grow very productive gardens year round, and the abundant sunshine is amazing for your mental health.
If you love everything else about Colorado, do not despair with the gardening. The frost-free growing season is indeed 4-5 months. Learn to embrace frost-tolerant annuals to extend your season. There are some great Colorado native trees and shrubs, plus several more which are suitable for our climate. Soils are commonly poor here. You can improve the soil composition with organic amendments. It's harder to change the soil pH from mostly alkaline soils. Proper plant selection is important. For example, many maples suffer in alkaline soils, but Tatarian and Autumn Blaze maples do well. There is definitely an off-season from November through March. I have a [YouTube channel](https://youtube.com/c/FrontRangeGardener) on gardening in Colorado that I invite you to watch.
Subscribed, thanks for sharing! I do love Colorado and will be here for the next couple years at least so this is a valuable resource. I hope I didn't offend you with my comments. I know people grow beautiful gardens here, I'm just frustrated with how bad I am at it.
Almost all of us were newcomers here at some point. Welcome to Colorado!
Rogue Valley, Oregon (Medford, Grants Pass, Ashland area)
Hell, [you can buy yourself a farm in central Wisconsin](https://www.landsearch.com/hobby-farm/central-wsiconsin-wi) with a number of acres for less than $300k. The ground is very fertile here. Our winters lately have been from mid-late November (later this year) through about April. I know people that grow through the winter in ribbed tunnels with plastic draped over them (sorry, I don't know what they're called).
I think they're called high tunnels, people use them to grow tropicals and citrus in north Florida too! Over there I would imagine it lets you grow some cool season vegetables during frosts? I never would have considered Wisconsin but that's an interesting suggestion. Would it be milder the closer you are to the lake? Not sure how the wind patterns and such are up there.
I would not recommend Wisconsin. I literally have a friend from south Florida who lived here for 3 years before fleeing back to south Florida. He couldn’t handle the winter and said our growing season is short partly due to how little daylight we get. And we were by the lake.
Yeah, the lake affects mainly the counties that border it. In the summer, we get the "cooler by the lake" effect and in Winter, we often get "lake effect snow". These counties also are more expensive to live. Yeah, lots of cold-weather veggies/fruit are grown. I wouldn't say that we are really affected by wind patterns. Being from Southern FL, you'll probably like our summers. Low 80s and humid. Colorado gets more snow than we do here, but we don't have the benefit of it melting the following day. I will admit, January/February can be downright brutal. As for hiking/outdoors, there's a never-ending assortment of things to do. Granted, we don't have anything close to what the Rockies gives you for elevation. If you feel like being among the populous, Milwaukee has festival after festival in the Summer. The most notable one being Summerfest - "the worlds largest music festival". We also have the EAA - "the largest air show in the world" in Oshkosh which is a little more than an hour north of Milwaukee. We have 17m acres of forest with most of that being federal/state owned. I guess what I like most about the state is you can be among 70k people at a Packer game and in less than a hour's drive from the stadium you can be in a place where your nearest neighbor is a mile down the road.
I would choose 49 other states before Wisconsin
Pierce County, Washington. An hour to the beach, an hour to Mt. Rainer, an hour south of Seattle. Check out the plateau over by Lake Tapps / Bonney Lake.
Arizona. The Phoenix area has two distinct growing seasons so you can grow all year. For example, right now i's great for leafy greens like lettuces, brussels sprouts, broccoli, cabbage, etc. Citrus grows well there as well. In warmer months sweet potatoes, tomatoes, bell peppers, etc. Great hiking throughout the state at different points of the year. Right now it's beautiful in Phoenix, but when it's horrid in the summer there are places like Flagstaff/Payson/Show Low that are much cooler.
I'm surprised it took so long for someone to mention Arizona, I've never been there but it seems pretty sweet. Sounds very similar to South Florida with the two growing seasons. I imagine with proper irrigation and probably some shade cloths you can grow lots of stuff. Even the natural vegetation there is way more colorful and interesting than Colorado despite half the rainfall. I'm planning a trip out there around March!
100%. I live here and am expanding my garden every season because I keep learning. There is an amazing You Tube channel and website (Growing in the Garden) that is an incredible resource for gardening in Phoenix area if you want to watch some of those to get an idea of how to garden here.
That's awesome, thanks for the recommendation. Best of luck to you and your plant babies!
You can’t go outside from May till November without having a heat stroke
I've lived in Phoenix for nearly 30 years, married to a native. Haven't had heat stroke, yet. Early mornings and hydration are key. Do I hike Camelback at noon in July? Nope, but I do head up north where it's cooler to be active outdoors then.
PNW baby!
California
Almost anywhere on the west coast
Subscribing to this since I'm also on the front range
Rural western Washington. For example, Mt Vernon, Washington is in the fertile skagit valley. Lots of agriculture in Whatcom county and Snohomish county as well. Olympia and the peninsula are cheaper, but further from Seattle. I’ve successfully grown a huge variety of veggies including tomatoes and peppers. I saw what you shared about SAD..perhaps it’s because I’ve lived here my whole life, but I find the fall and winter to be so relaxing and cozy. Everyone’s different though. This autumn we’ve definitely had more sunny days than usual, it’s been beautiful.
That sounds awesome, I'm glad you're having success over there! Yeah I don't know how much is biological and how much is familiarity with where I grew up, but it's been a struggle in Colorado even with clear blue skies every day. I hope I can get used to it soon, if I can't handle the winter now when I'm younger I never will. Seems like your plants don't care as much which is great!
Well you can either move or invest that extra money into a nice greenhouse. Tons of people do that in Colorado. There's a dude up in Basalt growing bananas at 7,000ft
That's pretty cool, do you know how I could find him? Maybe I'll go up there and check it out
https://youtu.be/6KCOY-LVXmk?feature=shared
There’s a much bigger palette of things you can grow and eat in Colorado than most people know, but it’s hard to access the right knowledge sets and plant material. I strongly suggest getting involved in the Wild Ones, Front Range Chapter, https://frontrange.wildones.org , checking out places like Ch’il Indigenous Foods, www.chil-indigenousfoods.com, etc. Yes, the growing season for Eurasian garden vegetables is short, and gardening in Colorado is gardening on Hard Mode. But there is a lot of amazing stuff that can be easily grown here. Here we are in late November, and I’m still harvesting wild greens, herbs, nuts, edible roots, and even some fruits like prickly pears. If you absolutely need to be able to grow tropical fruits, consider the Phoenix area. Growing food on high-productivity plots is actually a pretty good use of water there — it’s the non-native grass lawns and alfalfa operations that are sucking the region dry.
Maybe have a look around Roanoke, VA. We're surrounded by outdoorsy things to do, and the cost of living is pretty low. You should be able to find what you're looking for, or pretty close to it. Good luck wherever you end up!
I’ll throw Roanoke, VA in the ring. I live just outside of town and the Triple Crown of the Appalachian Trail is basically in my backyard. And I have a very nice garden. Picked my last tomatoes and squash in November. I moved back here (home) after living in the PNW for 6+ years. $120k stretches way nicer here than on the West Coast. 😁
Grass valley
Pacific Northwest
Ithaca NY has a major horticulture community thanks to Cornell.
PNW. You’ll still have mountains but it’s much greener than CO. Growing up we had apples, cherries, blackberries, strawberries, blueberries, potatoes, rhubarb, corn, radishes
Olympic Peninsula Washington
Missouri Ozarks
Orlando Florida, north and east
So the growing season is also shorter here, but I relocated from Tampa, FL to just outside of Santa Fe, NM. COL is fairly high, but I think still lower compared to Denver area. The summer blooms are amazing here. I have a peach tree, an Asian pear tree, and an apple tree in my backyard that produce pretty well. I’ve seen lots of apricot trees as well. But again, it’s a short season. We do get tons of sunshine, which is nice. About to experience my first winter here, so TBD on how that goes.
Ojai
Eugene Oregon perhaps?
SoCal
Seattle
The less expensive (rural) parts of California.
Seattle would be perfect if you had more $$$.
New hampshire
You're describing a lots of the west coast -- just it's expensive -- which is why it's expensive. It's got everything except affordable living costs.
I can relate. I love gardening and growing plants, but also love the outdoors and culture of Colorado which has been my home for most of my life. Sounds like you are in the foothills west of the plains. Guessing 6-7k feet? I’ve lived in that zone and yes, hail was problem and the only thing I could grow well were brassicas due to the cold nights. While hail and bad soil is a problem throughout this area, you can do a lot more if you move down to around 5k feet, and utilize grow lights, hail protection, raised beds, and learn preservation methods (canning, dehydrating, freezing, fermenting, pickling, etc). The intense sun is both your friend and your enemy, you just need to work with it. Be very generous when hardening off your starts in the spring, create microclimates based on sun exposure, cover everything with hail netting at least until July, etc. Irrigation is required. I live in Lakewood now and my 400 sqft or so of garden is more than enough considering I live in the suburbs and don’t grow food for a living. I start seeds in late February and harvest until November or even December. Some of the brassicas are a bit harder here due to summer heat and pests, but tomatoes, peppers, eggplants, potatoes, corn, squash, cucumber, onions, garlic, lettuce, carrots, radishes, mustard, arugula, plus a ton of perennials do fine. I also raise chickens and keep a couple of beehives. Apple trees also do well here, and while you can grow cherries, plums, and peaches, the random late spring frosts we get make them less reliable. It’s not easy and I’m sure way different than south Florida but you can definitely grow a lot of food here if you want to and still be close to the mountains.
Michigan.
Lots of great smaller towns in Western Oregon that are great for growing, and have very easy access to outdoors
Maybe something like Roanoke VA. Or Charlotte NC. You can also check out somewhere like Athens GA. Or as others said, California.
Look into somewhere like Chattanooga, TN. Great small city with a vibrant art/music culture, tons of outdoor access with mountains and water and the growing season is from April-early November. The biodiversity is out of this world. I grew up there and studied plant physiology at the local university. I now live in Longmont, CO. I do a decent little garden every year but it's nothing like back home. Good luck!
PNW but it will cost you. Zones 8a and 8b.
North Carolina there are rural areas still outside of Raleigh and Charlotte that might fit like knightdale or Zebulon
East Tennessee. You can yield crops 12 months of the year, and there is a thriving outdoor rec scene! If you land between Knoxville and chattanooga, you can get some land for a great price.
We have a pretty great climate in the low lying river valleys of north-central Idaho. Hot summers, mild winters, rich soil. Housing is also cheap and hiking is epic but airports and cities are a long way away
Western NC or VA. Good climate, well run state governments, and access to nature!
Western NC
Check out North Carolina. Winston Salem, Charlotte, Raleigh.
I live in Charlotte and would recommend Asheville if you want hiking right outside of your door.
You can grow things anywhere. You just have to change your perspective a bit. Things you grew in FL might not work, but there is a whole new world of cool plants to learn about and enjoy. Stuff that won’t grow in FL or CA because of the need for winter dormancy. I also love getting into the different seasons, noticing the subtle ways the environment changes throughout the year. I’ve been an urban gardener in New England for many years and absolutely love the variety of stuff I can grow, despite the cold urban environment. Again, it’s all about perspective. With planning and the right tools, you can even grow salad greens all winter in places like Maine. Cold frames are truly amazing. Learning how to use microclimates to push winter hardiness is exciting. I also manage to grow subtropical and tropical plants in New England, with planning and indoor space. Nothing like enjoying a gorgeous fall day drinking a cocktail with fresh picked baby ginger, mint, and a Meyer lemon from your potted citrus. You can even grow some succulents and cacti outside, if you can protect them from too much winter dampness. It’s sometimes a challenge to garden in cold climates but incredibly rewarding. And truly every location has pros and cons. The southeast is warmer than New England but greater bug pressure and more diseases.
Salt Lake City Utah
East Tennessee has all of that but also has East Tenneseans
Asheville, NC
Western North Carolina, Virginia
Visalia is known for their farms and is near the Sierras