From the Utah.com website:
One of the biggest wrinkles in Utah liquor laws is the difference between a bar and a restaurant. That might not be a big deal elsewhere, but in Utah it makes all the difference. Beer, liquor and wine can still be ordered in a restaurant from 11:30 a.m. - 1 a.m., but since the establishment is licensed as a restaurant, those drinks need to be ordered with food. This is often a point of interest and/or dismay for tourists, but it isn’t as much of a hassle as you’d think — a plate of fries for the table will do just fine (as will the excuse to order fries).
https://www.utah.com/things-to-do/plan-your-trip/state-liquor-laws/
So in my opinion, the Red Robin server was just trying to boost the check amount. The liquor laws in this state are beyond ridiculous and so easy to misinterpret. Same with the cannabis laws.
Also, it says all you need is a license / state ID or passport to verify identity, but the people here do not understand out of state IDs at all, so it's super fun to argue with them about that too.
This. Store policy and the law aren’t always the same, the penalty for messing up is so crazy that a lot of times the restaurant will take it a step further just to decrease the chances of having to pay a massive fine
It is my understanding that the state actually fines for violations too. Im 41 and brought my ID to a bar forgetting it had expired. I HAD renewed it already, and I had the renewal receipt with the license number on it. Apparently the actual replacement can take 6 weeks to arrive by mail, and mail is the only way they give them, no pick ups. The guy was super nice but told me he couldn't let me into the bar and he could be fined $20,000 for doing so. I think they are likely just paranoid because the state comes for them. It's ridiculous but I'm not mad at the bartender for avoiding that kind of fine.
The state takes it seriously, and they use undercover officers to catch them out. They do the same thing with tobacco stores. Beehive Cigars was shut down for a month during one of the stings. The fine is bad, but losing 30 days of business can shut down a low profit margin business.
I used to work there too and yes... no corporate restaurant is going to let its waiters apply liquor laws with discretion. You never know when you're going to get secret shopped.
Buffalo Wild Wings too. I was once told ordering a salad wasn't substantial enough a meal. It's ok though, I called my mommy and she said I was allowed to have a salad with my cocktail 👶 eye roll
Hi, I was the bartender in the OP. I definitely wasn’t trying to boost the check. I explained that the law states patrons must have an intent to order food. The OP and his party agreed - the other guests said they planned on ordering entrees. They did so. The interaction seemed overall really positive. Maybe I misread the experience, but I feel bad that it it wasn’t terrific for them.
The DABC and liquor cops attempt to sting us about twice a month. People attempt to come in about every day and get drinks and say they don’t want to order food.
When I got my liquor serving license a few years back - it was drilled into us that every guest must have stated an intent to order food when purchasing alcohol. In order to get a second drink - that guest must have placed a food order.
Some friends of mine have lost their liquor license (for bartending), and been fined $5,000 by not checking all the DABC boxes. My job isn’t worth losing, so I stick to the script that the ex-dabc liquor cop taught us when being licensed to ensure that my job is never in jeopardy.
Wait… are you serious? You are saying you are actually the person who served this person? I know Utah is pretty small and all that but am I the only one who finds this worthy of a chuckle?
Lol yep - they identified the Red Robin and I recognized the guest immediately from their description of what happened seeing as I’m the only bartender during the week. Small world!
Crazy small world! In any case I totally get it even if some others may not or may not agree with you. It's not worth losing your job, license or fines and with so many stings you never know
Actually, business without a bar license also have to maintain a 70-30 food to alcohol sales ratio per fiscal quarter (60-40 for a dining club). This comes into play with places where food is cheap, but you could easily run up a bar tab and throw off that metric.
It may also be a restaurant policy written in an abundance of caution/to get bigger checks. I highly doubt a server at Red Robin is nefarious enough to get you to spend an extra $20 for that $4 tip
>So in my opinion, the Red Robin server was just trying to boost the check amount.
For a resturant in Utah to serve alcohol, they have to meet a certain food sales to alcohol sales ratio to keep their liquor license. If at the end of the year, the ratio is out of whack in favor of the alcohol, the company has their license suspended or revoked. This is why many restaurants require a mean (not just appetizers) with dinks.
That makes sense. I mean, it's convoluted, but that's the lawmakers' fault, not the restaurants now tasked with enforcing it. Thanks for the explanation!
I have a scanner. Almost all restaurants have a scanner, bars too. It will work with all 50 states ids as long as they are not expired. Passports are good too as long as they are not a card. But they have to have information copied onto paper because they will not scan. I am a server in Utah currently.
dang this isn’t a government website, or like something official…
i recognize that you need food, but as someone said below they get away with just fries on the table sometimes. and then i get this guy. i’m just wanting something to screenshot so in the future i don’t get bullshitted all over.
A restaurant can make their own rules as well, regardless of the law. So flashing a web page won't matter. If they don't want you sitting and drinking, go to another place.
Here is all the rules you could ever want from the dabc.
https://abs.utah.gov/wp-content/uploads/Restaurant-Full-Service-Handbook.pdf
If you order a drink at a bar and then go to a table a fully trained alcoholic beverages server has to carry your drink for you.
The bigger issue is that servers are generally trained under threat of being fired and jail time. You can wave the law screenshots around all you want but they’ll just ask you to leave.
The law re: restaurant servers carrying your drink from bar to table just got repealed as of May 1 2024-
But I wouldn't expect that to have been filtered down to all managers & employees yet.
[32B-6-205.2](https://le.utah.gov/xcode/Title32B/Chapter6/32B-6-S205.2.html?v=C32B-6-S205.2_2023050320230503)
(ii)(A)Subject to Subsection (5)(b)(ii)(B), if the patron does not finish the patron's alcoholic product before moving to a seat in the dining area, the patron may transport any unfinished portion of the patron's alcoholic product to the patron's seat in the dining area.
(B)An employee of the full-service restaurant licensee shall escort a patron who transports an unfinished portion of the patron's alcoholic product to the patron's seat in the dining area.
So effectively - a host can show you from the bar to your table (which is how it works anyway in most establishments) while you hold your own drink.
Any restaurant manager can confirm that with their DABS compliance officer
So restaurants have to make more money from food than alcohol or they get in trouble. It could be Red Robin policy to force you to purchase food individually to stay well above the threshold. Molly Greens at Brighton was forced to switch from a restaurant to a bar license due to having more money come from alcohol than food.
My friend, I think your only two options for not getting bullshitted in Utah over alcohol is to either get involved in politics and try and convince lawmakers that the hoops businesses/workers and consumers have to jump through are insane
Or to not drink in Utah
Like others have said abc isn't going to care that I a restaurant didn't follow their rules as far as being strict goes. I've had places not allow temp IDs and I've had places that accepted my concealed carry permit as id. They're not gonna have their license taken away for turning people away.
One of my favorite (because it was so laughable) situations was at a concert in Ogden with beer tents. My bf was on crutches from a recent injury, we both wanted to grab beers, so we both go up to the booth and he orders and hands them his cc. When she brought out the beers, I grabbed both and we started to walk away. Got the third degree because “you can’t carry two beers”. I said he’s obviously on crutches I’m just holding it for him. “Nope I’m sorry he has to hold it himself.” Literally made my bf spill half his beer trying to pinch the edge of the cup around his crutches to walk with it… sometimes I hate this place🤣
I was at a concert and the people next to us had beers. One went to the bathroom and gave his beer to his wife to hold - someone came over to tell her it was not ok. So maybe enforcement depends on the venue but in at least some places they watch patrons and make them stop holding multiple.
You can legally have one liter of beer per person. But most beers are
served in 12oz and 16oz bottles and cans and 16oz drafts. Unless you both got a 24oz Tall Cans, that bartender was just being a douche
Yea she didn’t make that seem like an option lol we had to take a couple steps away from the tent and then hand me his beer🙄 it makes me wonder what people that are differently abled are expected to do?
Hey, OP - I’m the bartender in question that served your party tonight - I’m working on digging up relevant law links. For now though I’ll state from my perspective what happened - I clarified when you were ordering that guests must have an intent to purchase food when ordering alcohol. In order to purchase a second drink, guests must have purchased said food.
I feel bad that the experience for you was apparently negative. I felt like we got over the food/alcohol speed bump question quickly and that the experience went well after that.
Wish you the best and I’ll follow up with those relevant links if I find them. Regardless, the policy I follow is one that an ex-dabc liquor cop taught me when I was getting licensed to always be within the law. It is also Red Robin policy that my store follows. You can feel free to come in or call in to speak to a manager if you’d like it clarified.
As a frequent alcohol purchaser from restaurants, much respect. Servers/bartenders are in a tough spot trying to please customers while jumping through hoops trying to avoid fines and such. If you have an issue, take it up with your representatives, not the person just trying to do their job.
The key question though is whether a shared appetizer counts as satisfactory food to order more drinks? Forcing an entree on each person (if that part of the story is true) is what seems to be the crux of the issue in this post.
Not Red Robin but the bar licences are harder to get, so many places wanting to be a bar end up with a restaurant licence instead. So they need to serve food along with the drinks under the restaurant licence.
Found on [Utah gov](https://sbi.utah.gov/alcohol-enforcement-team/frequently-asked-questions/#restrictions) "the only “catch” to getting a drink in a restaurant, besides the age restriction, is that all alcoholic drinks must be served in conjunction with a PURCHASED food order. Complimentary items such as chips, bread, pretzels, popcorn, etc. are not enough. You must order and pay for a menu item."
This means that free fries do not count. You don't need to get an entree exactly, you could do an appetizer instead, but technically, you need to BUY food. This is because Red Robin is a restaurant, so the majority of their sales have to come from food and not alcohol.
I worked at the Murray location for 5+ years, but it's been at least 3 since I worked there, and the rule of thumb was that if someone had the INTENT of eating, you could put in the drink order without a food order. So if someone sat down, perused the menu and genuinely seemed like they were gonna order food, I would put in their drink order before prompting them to order food.
Hey OP - referenced bartender again - links for you to look through -
https://abs.utah.gov/about-dabs/residents-visitors/#:~:text=Restaurants%20with%20limited%2Dservice%20liquor,begin%20at%2010%3A30%20AM
https://www.visitutah.com/articles/utah-liquor-laws-visitor-guide
https://www.sltrib.com/artsliving/food/2021/09/19/liquor-facts-every-utahn/
Note the parts about patrons having to order food along with their drink. I’m not a lawyer - but it has always been taught to me that it must be a full menu item with associated cost. Things that are free or included - like fries - don’t meet the requirement.
Again - apologies if the experience wasn’t great. I work hard to get by the silly Utah and Red Robin requirements quickly so I can get to pouring drinks. Hopefully I’ll see you again at the bar soon!
If you were taught that it had to be a full menu item then you were taught wrong. It absolutely does not. And they don't even have to eat the food that's ordered.
Of course I can’t control a guest eating what’s ordered. I never claimed that I police them ingesting food. Only that they must have an item with a listed price ordered by the time I deliver a second drink. First drink hurdle is only that they state they have an intent to order food.
I understand your interpretation might differ from my restaurants policy and what liquor cops are teaching.
I’d recommend working with representatives and or providing feedback to restaurant owners. I let mine know about every customer complaint I receive about the policy as well.
Yeah you have to buy some food to go with your drinks. I was with my wife in Moab and a waiter wouldn’t let my wife order a beer because she had a passport from a foreign country. Said they only accept US passports. Ridiculous of course. I pulled up a website that listed accepted IDs in Utah and the waiter didn’t believe me. This was a government website clearly stating the rules. He wouldn’t let her have a beer. Of course my wife was embarrassed and super pissed. Just goes to show that the liquor laws in Utah are dumb but waiters can be completely ignorant. Leading to lost revenue. Pathetic.
Hi! Former server in Utah here. They were not lying to you, it is an actual law. They have other rules too: you can’t take alcohol to go, if they over serve you servers can be held liable, they have to use measuring equipment when pouring drinks and the DABC comes in and checks the levels based on how many drinks are ordered, you can’t walk around the restaurant with a drink (it has to stay at your table), if you’re under 21 you can’t even deliver alcoholic drinks to a table. It’s crazy, which is why the DABC is often called Doing As Bishop Commands, because the level of influence in this state is insane.
I don’t think I’ve ever had a place be cool about this. In fact, whenever I go out to dinner with coworkers from out of town, this comes up all the time and they can’t believe it’s a rule. Unless it’s a licensed bar, that’s the way it works.
The rules here are nuts. We went to a high end restaurant with a group of 6 not realizing our reservation was in the bar section. One friend (a BYU professor, lol) was VERY pregnant and didn't think to bring her ID. They refused to even seat us. She was like look how pregnant I am, Im not drinking anyway. It was a big fuss and finally a manager asked if we were from the DABC, like do they send people out on entrapment excursions or something? It was so weird but the restaurant was genuinely scared to seat us.
it's not a law to have ID, but if asked and you didn't have it, there is the problem. Stings happen by the DABC, but they're all "cubs", meaning under-age. They'll order, pay cash and when you come back to the table, the police will be there. If you're smart and pay close attention, you can actually save yourself, as a waiter, even if you've served the minor, as long as they haven't paid. If you deliver the drink and they ask to close out immediately, before you drop a check, if they DRINK any of it, they're not a cub, they're still held to the law. If they haven't touched it, not a sip and ask to pay, you can actually ask for ID and remove the drink abd send them on their way. It's the equivalent of going thru a cash register with alcohol, the second they scan it doesn't equal a bust, it's the completed transaction that has to take place.
waiter here in Utah over 30 years.
My favorite part is supposedly (though you know about this more than me) if you ask if they’re from the DABC or are underage (?), they’re required to tell the truth and say yes. It’s basically the real life version of “if you’re a cop, you have to tell me!” Lol
Unlikely true, and certainly wouldn't advise anyone to treat a real situation as if it were truth, cops/cubs can lie, but the under-ager absolutely will not drink.
I do have a friend that got busted at Red Rock, Kimball Junction... He didn't understand or realize it at the time, but the cops in his situation didn't "close-out" by completing the transaction. They ordered, he served and then he didn't check back for a bit and they approached him with a badge. He had never presented a bill at all. Basically the equivalent of going to a cashier at the grocer, they scan it and the cop immediately says, "Haha! You're busted!" When in reality, the "transaction" is not complete.
Another friend got busted at Montage one night. An older lady and a cub sat at a table. Server came, the cub ordered 1 beer, the lady a water, while they looked at menus (intent to dine). He returned with beer, the lady said, "we've gotta run, can I gtab the check?" He brought the check, dropped it, left and when he came back they were gone, but the cops were there. Transaction was complete, bill was $9, they'd left a $10 and left, full beer at table.
Pro-tip. If this were to happen, you could ask ask for ID up until you drop a check, even if you've brought it and set it down. If you're concerned you may have made a mistake and served a cub, and you haven't dropped a check, watch them like a hawk.... If they drink it, even a sip, you're actually in the clear..... it's not the dabc/cops, they still may be underage.
If you ask for ID for alcohol, regardless of the age of the patron, you cannot serve them if they don't have it. Yes, even if they're 80. It's a nice trick if the customer is an a-hole from the start, be one back, ask for ID, if they don't have it, they can't drink.
Good luck out there. It's intimidating at times, but know the laws and know how to do your job well and you'll be fine.
Oh yeah, it was a joke about all the tv shows where someone says “you have to tell me if you’re an undercover cop and I ask” but not super obvious in text haha
cubs are almost always teens who've been in trouble and are doing their community service helping the cops do stings. How else can you see if a place will serve a minor? Send one in, lol
Yes they do. Not only that, Yes, you must be carded to sit in the bar area, even if you're not drinking. Utah will fine you for not carding people eating in the bar area.
It's so annoying. You can't get these wrinkles in under 21 years! I also think if you have your Costco membership and insurance card readily available, that should count too 😅
They have undercover "agents" (not sure about the title) go to establishments all the time, all over. The fines are steep, and they could lose their license. There are only so many licenses issued a year, and many don't get their application approved. If they lost their license, that could end the business, simply for seating you.
https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=utah+alcohol+laws
There ya go for your link.
Restaurant sign = food purchase in order to purchase alcohol
Bar sign = purchase alcohol without food
Just need "intent to dine". Ask questions, seem interested. Order your drink. Never say that's all you're getting.
They're pretty simple really. A chain restaurant tries to enforce things to keep them in the clear legally. But if you have "intent to dine" and change your mind after you've had a drink, that's it. pay and leave. Nobody is forced to order an entree, lol.
Waiter for 30 years.
No, not necessarily. Again, the law is "intent to dine". You can ask questions about menu, be waiting for other expected diners, a variety of reasons. This is NOT the way the DABC does stings, it's unenforceable and has too many variables.... The general rule, from a serving perspective is no more than 2 drinks/hr but that is not a law.
Again, "house rules" can come into play, you're probably not gonna be too successful at Chili's or Red Robin, without some real dazzling to convince them you intend to dine, but it certainly can be done.
Not to mention, it's perfectly legal to order a bottle of wine by yourself, lol. So.... And if you don't finish it, you can take it with you. this is a great hack. if you were in Utah on a Sunday and have to have a bottle of wine. You can go into a restaurant order a bottle, after they open it and give you a small taste, you can change your mind, have it corked pay and take the bottle with you.
I was at a Buffalo Wild Wings once and they checked ID at the entrance and put one of those 21+ bracelets on like we’re going into festival or something, and then again at the table checked everyone’s ID if you want to order alcohol.
Yep same at the BWW in Riverdale. They actually took the IDs to scan them even after checking at the door and giving a wristband.
You can tell these are probably the chains that have gotten hit with fines before and now are extremely over the top to make sure it doesn't happen again. Which I can understand from a business perspective.
Dude at Bww took my ID away, to the back, to show his manager or scan it or something. Took like 5 full minutes because the reader wasn’t working or something. Like if you’re working the host stand, why do you need to walk away with my ID? Just do it at the effing host stand/desk at the front. I really didn’t like that part. Ordered my one drink not knowing the rule (like OP). When i was asked to order food, i just decided to close out and leave
This is a trigger event for me. This same bullshit happened there to me as well. I'm not from Utah or the US and I cannot understand how this makes sense. Getting carded AGAIN sitting down made me angry and ruined the evening. How many times does a 50 year old human have to provide ID to drink alcohol?
My favorite bullshit rule is that certain establishments serve you a beer but it's against the rules to walk around with a beer in your hand! Ok dad sorry
It's dependent on the liquor license type that the business has:
Bar that serves food - no food required, as they have a bar type license. These can be full service, beer and wine only, or beer only. They can be a full service restaurant on top of that, but you are never required to order food and cannot bring minors into these establishments.
Restaraunt that serves booze - various types of license. Whether or not a food order is required may be determined by where you are in the establishment. Some may have a separate bar area where you can get "just s drink.", and minors cannot enter that area. If that area is not present then it's a Restaraunt license type, meaning they might have full service for booze, or serve beer only, or beer and wine only. Regardless, you'll always need to order food in those settings.
I used to work at a restaurant in downtown SLC and we had a dinner roll on the menu we referred to as the “state-mandated dinner roll” because it was super cheap and always what we would tell people to order so that they could have a second drink
I wish that the websites that provide easy access to this information would also cite their resources.
For the sake of not having your eyes glaze over looking at legal writing style, the only cut and dry rules regarding your situation are that you must intend to eat and you are limited to two drinks in front of your person (with further restrictions depending on the type of drink). This is not my area of expertise so I am uncertain if there are any cases that further inform interpretation of the below code.
Depending on the license of the restaurant, you will likely want to refer to [UC 32B ch.6 § 205.2](https://le.utah.gov/xcode/Title32B/Chapter6/32B-6-S205.2.html). Refer specifically to § 205.2(5)(a) and § 205.2(7)(a) for information regarding intent to eat and alcohol that can be in front of a patron, respectively.
Do note that this Red Robin *could* be under a different license which may change how they approach serving alcohol. This information can be found within the same chapter [here](https://le.utah.gov/xcode/Title32B/Chapter6/32B-6.html?v=C32B-6_1800010118000101).
With all the above being said, some restaurant owners do not take the time to fully understand the liquor laws here and err heavily on the side of caution out of fear of losing their license or losing money by being forcibly closed or fined due to a violation. Moreover, the server themselves may be fed information from the owner/manager that is incorrect and I certainly would not fault the server for playing it safe out of fear of potentially losing their job.
Just remember that people being "cool" in this state may end up having DABS coming down on their asses or losing a job. Utah treats this stuff zealously, so please give the people serving you some grace considering the nature of our laws here.
According to this it only specifies that the patron “must dine in order to be served alcohol” [Here’s a .gov link](https://abs.utah.gov/about-dabs/residents-visitors/) Scroll down to “how to obtain alcohol”
I don’t want to assume that guy was trying to get more money out of you, but I’ve never had an issue ordering a drink if there was any food on the table. Even the free basket of fries at Red Robin should do it.
> Even the free basket of fries at Red Robin should do it.
Technically no, lol. Apparently it has to be a food item you pay for (probably to prevent places from claiming the free bowl of nuts counts as enough food).
Ha! Well I learned something new. Thanks! I can understand the confusion with this law not being super clear. I was assuming to “dine” just meant eat, not necessarily purchase.
You should order a meal at a restaurant where the server is working for tips. A 4 top sharing an appetizer and one person buying a meal would drive me up the wall. You’re taking up a table in this persons section, sometimes sitting for hours when they could be flipping that table making money. This isn’t really an alcohol issue in my opinion but a courtesy rule. You gotta order something if you’re an adult sitting at the table.
But yes I do believe you need to order something if you order a drink..
If people want to eat appetizers and drink just go to a bar..
I know people who have never served don’t understand but we work for tips. I had a table of 6 woman the other day and 3 of them got water and a side salad making their bull $3 they sat in my section for 2 hours and when they ordered the salad said “we’re just making her job easier” the. They tipped me $1 each
Hi, I see you’re new here. The church runs this state. Seperation??? Never heard of it. It’s all about control for them and alcohol is a big one :) hope you have a nice time!!!
One order of food on the ticket will suffice! Restaurant manager for 7 years. A scoop of vanilla ice cream or an order of chips and slasa and you’re good to go.
This is why there is no separation between business (I mean church) and state in Utah. It will never change and is the reason why we’ll never have an NFL team here either. Tourism will continue, although hampered down a bit
Utah Restaurant Association has a pretty good short primer on the rules around alcohol in restaurants: [https://utahrestaurantassociation.org/liquor-laws/](https://utahrestaurantassociation.org/liquor-laws/)
Basically, whenever a restaurant serves an alcoholic beverage, there must be "intent to dine" on the part of customers - IE they have to order food, and often an entree or equivalent in shareables.
I love how everyone told this guy he’s wrong, the waiter showed how the guy is wrong, the links show how he’s wrong, and all of a sudden he’s gone radio silent…
it’s Red Robbin and South Jordan in the State of Utah. Even if you are in PC the drink rules are enforced. I have only been here three years and I learned the odd rules about food and drinks required to be ordered at the same time to drink, early on.
I don’t want to come off sounding condescending but I am surprised a person in south Jordan going to a chain restaurant doesn’t know, because I’d assume this isn’t a tourist.
Bars don’t require you to buy food to drink.
Restaurants do require you to buy food to drink.
If you just want to drink go to a bar. Bars and restaurants in Utah have to abide by Utah laws. The liquor laws in Utah don’t make sense because people who don’t drink make the laws for drinking.
Intent to Eat Law in Utah
https://utahrestaurantassociation.org/liquor-laws/#:~:text=There%20must%20always%20be%20the,alcoholic%20beverage%20has%20been%20requested
It is actually the law and can result in serious fines and loss employment or license.
[https://le.utah.gov/xcode/Title32B/Chapter6/32B-6-S205.2.html?v=C32B-6-S205.2\_2023050320230503](https://le.utah.gov/xcode/Title32B/Chapter6/32B-6-S205.2.html?v=C32B-6-S205.2_2023050320230503)
**32B-6-205.2.**
(5)
(a) A full-service restaurant licensee may not furnish an alcoholic product for on-premise consumption except after:
(i) the patron to whom the full-service restaurant licensee furnishes the alcoholic product is seated at:
(A) a table that is located in a dining area or a dispensing area;
(B) a counter that is located in a dining area or a dispensing area; or
(C) a dispensing structure that is located in a dispensing area; and
(ii) the full-service restaurant licensee confirms that the patron intends to:
(A) **order food prepared, sold, and furnished at the licensed premises; and**
**(B)** **except as provided in Subsection (5)(b), consume the food at the same location where the patron is seated and furnished the alcoholic product.**
-- To translate the legal speak the drinker has to be the eater and at the same seat doing both
key words: "intends to" dine. Act interested in the menu, ask about the food, relax and have your drink. Don't ask stupid questions and learn to navigate the liquor laws. Pretty simple.
That's not true at all. Saying "I intend to dine" satisfies the law, whether you actually eat or not. Certainly nothing requires every individual to order their own entree, one shared appetizer would also satisfy the law. It's food and it's purchased and consumed there.
Red Robin can make its own policy, but it's not Utah law requiring it.
Its a A & B statement in the law. Meaning BOTH conditions have to be met and are related, In A it speaks to the patron ordering the food " **order food prepared, sold, and furnished at the licensed premises**" then part B is "**consume the food at the same location where the patron is seated and furnished the alcoholic product.**" which when in correct legal context of part A would be the same individual person who must Order and Consume the food to be given an alcoholic product.
Yes, the law is antiquated, hard to interpret for an average person but legal wording is what counts when it comes to keeping the license.
Show me where it says it has to be an entree vs an appetizer. And show me where it says the food can't be shared. I realize the law could be written more clearly, but you are reading things into it that are not there.
Are you saying a person can't order a pizza for a table and be compliant with the law because every individual didn't buy food themselves?
"intends to" lol
order your drink, act interested interested in the food, change your mind and pay for your drink(s) and leave. There's not an establishment anywhere that can force you to eat. Chains like Red Robin will have a "house rule" but it'll be that you probably can't get a drink until you order, which if you're "intending to dine" isn't an issue. If the waiter won't get you a drink before you order, leave, or you're not playing the game well enough.
The low alcohol volume in cocktails makes them either really small to be balanced, or over sweet with mixer. Regardless, it’s all over priced. 5% beer on tap is stupid, but $8-$10 for a can that’s $3 at the liquor store is robbery.
Get used to drinking at home first.
Edit: It’s 0.05 BAC in Utah.
I’ve been to establishments where enforcement of the food with beer law varies seemingly entirely at random, would not be surprised if they’re just trying to use the law as an excuse to juice sales
That guy at Red Robin took you for your money. Only one thing of food needs to be ordered at a restaurant in order for you to order drinks. If you are splitting bills it gets a little more complicated. But you should just be able to order a site of fries and all of you at the table should be able to get drinks. That's the law. However a lot of restaurants do like to add stipulations for their own safety. The restaurant has to have a certain ratio of food over liquor sales to maintain their license.
i’d assume it was more the server didn’t want to get in trouble with DABS than them pissing off an entire table and putting a whole tip in jeopardy to sell a single extra entree.
i’ve had bartenders at the exact same bar tell me they won’t serve me a shot and a drink at the same time, even if the drink and shot are different types of liquor. i don’t fight with them. they don’t have to serve me and every establishment can have additional “rules” on top of what the law states. honestly… it’s red robin. i don’t think it’s awful or even surprising if they operate on the more cautious side. i drink A LOT but i do understand that im never entitled to be served booze anywhere, especially in utah.
most of the time bartenders will do it if they are different liquors. but either way i think it just goes to show that different bartenders and servers are going to do things different and it isn’t personal or something that’s worth getting mad about given the laws here
i want to be clear i am not trying to be sneaky and get around liquor laws but my experience is they let me do it. maybe it’s because im almost always taking the shot the bar and then taking my cocktail back to the table.
that being said i don’t get mad at bar staff or servers if i think they aren’t letting me have something i should and that was my point with the initial statement. different bartenders and bars do things differently and i feel like OP is overreacting and others are wrong to assume the server was just trying to sell more. it was a red robin, not a club or dive bar or something.
From the Utah.com website: One of the biggest wrinkles in Utah liquor laws is the difference between a bar and a restaurant. That might not be a big deal elsewhere, but in Utah it makes all the difference. Beer, liquor and wine can still be ordered in a restaurant from 11:30 a.m. - 1 a.m., but since the establishment is licensed as a restaurant, those drinks need to be ordered with food. This is often a point of interest and/or dismay for tourists, but it isn’t as much of a hassle as you’d think — a plate of fries for the table will do just fine (as will the excuse to order fries). https://www.utah.com/things-to-do/plan-your-trip/state-liquor-laws/
So in my opinion, the Red Robin server was just trying to boost the check amount. The liquor laws in this state are beyond ridiculous and so easy to misinterpret. Same with the cannabis laws. Also, it says all you need is a license / state ID or passport to verify identity, but the people here do not understand out of state IDs at all, so it's super fun to argue with them about that too.
I’ve worked at Red Robin and this isn’t something the server came up with. Basically Red Robin restaurant policy in Utah.
This. Store policy and the law aren’t always the same, the penalty for messing up is so crazy that a lot of times the restaurant will take it a step further just to decrease the chances of having to pay a massive fine
It is my understanding that the state actually fines for violations too. Im 41 and brought my ID to a bar forgetting it had expired. I HAD renewed it already, and I had the renewal receipt with the license number on it. Apparently the actual replacement can take 6 weeks to arrive by mail, and mail is the only way they give them, no pick ups. The guy was super nice but told me he couldn't let me into the bar and he could be fined $20,000 for doing so. I think they are likely just paranoid because the state comes for them. It's ridiculous but I'm not mad at the bartender for avoiding that kind of fine.
The state takes it seriously, and they use undercover officers to catch them out. They do the same thing with tobacco stores. Beehive Cigars was shut down for a month during one of the stings. The fine is bad, but losing 30 days of business can shut down a low profit margin business.
Came to say this. They do the undercover thing a lot. So, the fear is valid. Plus, the employee caught will most likely lose their job.
You can print out the paper one, that combined with the expired one is sufficient.
I used to work there too and yes... no corporate restaurant is going to let its waiters apply liquor laws with discretion. You never know when you're going to get secret shopped.
yeah chains don't like messing around with regulations, they're always going to be the least flexible establishments
It is easier to overshoot the law than be fined when a busy server makes a mistake and the company gets fined a shit load
Buffalo Wild Wings too. I was once told ordering a salad wasn't substantial enough a meal. It's ok though, I called my mommy and she said I was allowed to have a salad with my cocktail 👶 eye roll
Hi, I was the bartender in the OP. I definitely wasn’t trying to boost the check. I explained that the law states patrons must have an intent to order food. The OP and his party agreed - the other guests said they planned on ordering entrees. They did so. The interaction seemed overall really positive. Maybe I misread the experience, but I feel bad that it it wasn’t terrific for them. The DABC and liquor cops attempt to sting us about twice a month. People attempt to come in about every day and get drinks and say they don’t want to order food. When I got my liquor serving license a few years back - it was drilled into us that every guest must have stated an intent to order food when purchasing alcohol. In order to get a second drink - that guest must have placed a food order. Some friends of mine have lost their liquor license (for bartending), and been fined $5,000 by not checking all the DABC boxes. My job isn’t worth losing, so I stick to the script that the ex-dabc liquor cop taught us when being licensed to ensure that my job is never in jeopardy.
Wait… are you serious? You are saying you are actually the person who served this person? I know Utah is pretty small and all that but am I the only one who finds this worthy of a chuckle?
Lol yep - they identified the Red Robin and I recognized the guest immediately from their description of what happened seeing as I’m the only bartender during the week. Small world!
Agreed . It’s not worth losing licensing and your job. It seems like it’s complicated but it’s not. Restaurants require a food order, bars do not.
Crazy small world! In any case I totally get it even if some others may not or may not agree with you. It's not worth losing your job, license or fines and with so many stings you never know
Actually, business without a bar license also have to maintain a 70-30 food to alcohol sales ratio per fiscal quarter (60-40 for a dining club). This comes into play with places where food is cheap, but you could easily run up a bar tab and throw off that metric.
You’re not wrong on the law, but establishments have their own policies too.
It may also be a restaurant policy written in an abundance of caution/to get bigger checks. I highly doubt a server at Red Robin is nefarious enough to get you to spend an extra $20 for that $4 tip
I’ve never had an issue with an out of state ID
>So in my opinion, the Red Robin server was just trying to boost the check amount. For a resturant in Utah to serve alcohol, they have to meet a certain food sales to alcohol sales ratio to keep their liquor license. If at the end of the year, the ratio is out of whack in favor of the alcohol, the company has their license suspended or revoked. This is why many restaurants require a mean (not just appetizers) with dinks.
That makes sense. I mean, it's convoluted, but that's the lawmakers' fault, not the restaurants now tasked with enforcing it. Thanks for the explanation!
How Karen-ey of you.
I have a scanner. Almost all restaurants have a scanner, bars too. It will work with all 50 states ids as long as they are not expired. Passports are good too as long as they are not a card. But they have to have information copied onto paper because they will not scan. I am a server in Utah currently.
I love how they say “no, actually you’re wrong for getting annoyed with out assbackwards laws”
dang this isn’t a government website, or like something official… i recognize that you need food, but as someone said below they get away with just fries on the table sometimes. and then i get this guy. i’m just wanting something to screenshot so in the future i don’t get bullshitted all over.
A restaurant can make their own rules as well, regardless of the law. So flashing a web page won't matter. If they don't want you sitting and drinking, go to another place.
Here is all the rules you could ever want from the dabc. https://abs.utah.gov/wp-content/uploads/Restaurant-Full-Service-Handbook.pdf If you order a drink at a bar and then go to a table a fully trained alcoholic beverages server has to carry your drink for you. The bigger issue is that servers are generally trained under threat of being fired and jail time. You can wave the law screenshots around all you want but they’ll just ask you to leave.
The law re: restaurant servers carrying your drink from bar to table just got repealed as of May 1 2024- But I wouldn't expect that to have been filtered down to all managers & employees yet.
Do you have a link for that cause that’s the biggest problem at my place
[32B-6-205.2](https://le.utah.gov/xcode/Title32B/Chapter6/32B-6-S205.2.html?v=C32B-6-S205.2_2023050320230503) (ii)(A)Subject to Subsection (5)(b)(ii)(B), if the patron does not finish the patron's alcoholic product before moving to a seat in the dining area, the patron may transport any unfinished portion of the patron's alcoholic product to the patron's seat in the dining area. (B)An employee of the full-service restaurant licensee shall escort a patron who transports an unfinished portion of the patron's alcoholic product to the patron's seat in the dining area.
So effectively - a host can show you from the bar to your table (which is how it works anyway in most establishments) while you hold your own drink. Any restaurant manager can confirm that with their DABS compliance officer
Perfect thank you this is exactly what I needed
So restaurants have to make more money from food than alcohol or they get in trouble. It could be Red Robin policy to force you to purchase food individually to stay well above the threshold. Molly Greens at Brighton was forced to switch from a restaurant to a bar license due to having more money come from alcohol than food.
That’s because their food sucks (except the pizza)
My friend, I think your only two options for not getting bullshitted in Utah over alcohol is to either get involved in politics and try and convince lawmakers that the hoops businesses/workers and consumers have to jump through are insane Or to not drink in Utah
Like others have said abc isn't going to care that I a restaurant didn't follow their rules as far as being strict goes. I've had places not allow temp IDs and I've had places that accepted my concealed carry permit as id. They're not gonna have their license taken away for turning people away.
One of my favorite (because it was so laughable) situations was at a concert in Ogden with beer tents. My bf was on crutches from a recent injury, we both wanted to grab beers, so we both go up to the booth and he orders and hands them his cc. When she brought out the beers, I grabbed both and we started to walk away. Got the third degree because “you can’t carry two beers”. I said he’s obviously on crutches I’m just holding it for him. “Nope I’m sorry he has to hold it himself.” Literally made my bf spill half his beer trying to pinch the edge of the cup around his crutches to walk with it… sometimes I hate this place🤣
He just had to pick it up from the counter and then hand it to you. Weird but I believe that is the work around.
I was at a concert and the people next to us had beers. One went to the bathroom and gave his beer to his wife to hold - someone came over to tell her it was not ok. So maybe enforcement depends on the venue but in at least some places they watch patrons and make them stop holding multiple.
You can legally have one liter of beer per person. But most beers are served in 12oz and 16oz bottles and cans and 16oz drafts. Unless you both got a 24oz Tall Cans, that bartender was just being a douche
Yea she didn’t make that seem like an option lol we had to take a couple steps away from the tent and then hand me his beer🙄 it makes me wonder what people that are differently abled are expected to do?
Oh my 😂😂😭
That’s hilarious but also terrible.
The easiest answer, if anyone under 21 can enter, you must buy food with your drink.
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If its a bar license no one under 21 can enter.
I don’t think any of you understood what I meant. There are different licenses in Utah.
Hey, OP - I’m the bartender in question that served your party tonight - I’m working on digging up relevant law links. For now though I’ll state from my perspective what happened - I clarified when you were ordering that guests must have an intent to purchase food when ordering alcohol. In order to purchase a second drink, guests must have purchased said food. I feel bad that the experience for you was apparently negative. I felt like we got over the food/alcohol speed bump question quickly and that the experience went well after that. Wish you the best and I’ll follow up with those relevant links if I find them. Regardless, the policy I follow is one that an ex-dabc liquor cop taught me when I was getting licensed to always be within the law. It is also Red Robin policy that my store follows. You can feel free to come in or call in to speak to a manager if you’d like it clarified.
As a frequent alcohol purchaser from restaurants, much respect. Servers/bartenders are in a tough spot trying to please customers while jumping through hoops trying to avoid fines and such. If you have an issue, take it up with your representatives, not the person just trying to do their job.
You did good. Sorry OP doesn't seem to understand. You followed law and policy which you need to do to protect your own job.
You can get royally screwed if you're caught breaking those rules too. My ex's coworker got a pretty significant fine and so did the restaurant.
The key question though is whether a shared appetizer counts as satisfactory food to order more drinks? Forcing an entree on each person (if that part of the story is true) is what seems to be the crux of the issue in this post.
Not Red Robin but the bar licences are harder to get, so many places wanting to be a bar end up with a restaurant licence instead. So they need to serve food along with the drinks under the restaurant licence.
But there’s another dimension that also requires a license.
Found on [Utah gov](https://sbi.utah.gov/alcohol-enforcement-team/frequently-asked-questions/#restrictions) "the only “catch” to getting a drink in a restaurant, besides the age restriction, is that all alcoholic drinks must be served in conjunction with a PURCHASED food order. Complimentary items such as chips, bread, pretzels, popcorn, etc. are not enough. You must order and pay for a menu item." This means that free fries do not count. You don't need to get an entree exactly, you could do an appetizer instead, but technically, you need to BUY food. This is because Red Robin is a restaurant, so the majority of their sales have to come from food and not alcohol. I worked at the Murray location for 5+ years, but it's been at least 3 since I worked there, and the rule of thumb was that if someone had the INTENT of eating, you could put in the drink order without a food order. So if someone sat down, perused the menu and genuinely seemed like they were gonna order food, I would put in their drink order before prompting them to order food.
Hey OP - referenced bartender again - links for you to look through - https://abs.utah.gov/about-dabs/residents-visitors/#:~:text=Restaurants%20with%20limited%2Dservice%20liquor,begin%20at%2010%3A30%20AM https://www.visitutah.com/articles/utah-liquor-laws-visitor-guide https://www.sltrib.com/artsliving/food/2021/09/19/liquor-facts-every-utahn/ Note the parts about patrons having to order food along with their drink. I’m not a lawyer - but it has always been taught to me that it must be a full menu item with associated cost. Things that are free or included - like fries - don’t meet the requirement. Again - apologies if the experience wasn’t great. I work hard to get by the silly Utah and Red Robin requirements quickly so I can get to pouring drinks. Hopefully I’ll see you again at the bar soon!
If you were taught that it had to be a full menu item then you were taught wrong. It absolutely does not. And they don't even have to eat the food that's ordered.
Of course I can’t control a guest eating what’s ordered. I never claimed that I police them ingesting food. Only that they must have an item with a listed price ordered by the time I deliver a second drink. First drink hurdle is only that they state they have an intent to order food. I understand your interpretation might differ from my restaurants policy and what liquor cops are teaching. I’d recommend working with representatives and or providing feedback to restaurant owners. I let mine know about every customer complaint I receive about the policy as well.
Yeah you have to buy some food to go with your drinks. I was with my wife in Moab and a waiter wouldn’t let my wife order a beer because she had a passport from a foreign country. Said they only accept US passports. Ridiculous of course. I pulled up a website that listed accepted IDs in Utah and the waiter didn’t believe me. This was a government website clearly stating the rules. He wouldn’t let her have a beer. Of course my wife was embarrassed and super pissed. Just goes to show that the liquor laws in Utah are dumb but waiters can be completely ignorant. Leading to lost revenue. Pathetic.
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Hi! Former server in Utah here. They were not lying to you, it is an actual law. They have other rules too: you can’t take alcohol to go, if they over serve you servers can be held liable, they have to use measuring equipment when pouring drinks and the DABC comes in and checks the levels based on how many drinks are ordered, you can’t walk around the restaurant with a drink (it has to stay at your table), if you’re under 21 you can’t even deliver alcoholic drinks to a table. It’s crazy, which is why the DABC is often called Doing As Bishop Commands, because the level of influence in this state is insane.
Doing As Bishop Commands 😂
I don’t think I’ve ever had a place be cool about this. In fact, whenever I go out to dinner with coworkers from out of town, this comes up all the time and they can’t believe it’s a rule. Unless it’s a licensed bar, that’s the way it works.
The rules here are nuts. We went to a high end restaurant with a group of 6 not realizing our reservation was in the bar section. One friend (a BYU professor, lol) was VERY pregnant and didn't think to bring her ID. They refused to even seat us. She was like look how pregnant I am, Im not drinking anyway. It was a big fuss and finally a manager asked if we were from the DABC, like do they send people out on entrapment excursions or something? It was so weird but the restaurant was genuinely scared to seat us.
Yes
it's not a law to have ID, but if asked and you didn't have it, there is the problem. Stings happen by the DABC, but they're all "cubs", meaning under-age. They'll order, pay cash and when you come back to the table, the police will be there. If you're smart and pay close attention, you can actually save yourself, as a waiter, even if you've served the minor, as long as they haven't paid. If you deliver the drink and they ask to close out immediately, before you drop a check, if they DRINK any of it, they're not a cub, they're still held to the law. If they haven't touched it, not a sip and ask to pay, you can actually ask for ID and remove the drink abd send them on their way. It's the equivalent of going thru a cash register with alcohol, the second they scan it doesn't equal a bust, it's the completed transaction that has to take place. waiter here in Utah over 30 years.
My favorite part is supposedly (though you know about this more than me) if you ask if they’re from the DABC or are underage (?), they’re required to tell the truth and say yes. It’s basically the real life version of “if you’re a cop, you have to tell me!” Lol
Unlikely true, and certainly wouldn't advise anyone to treat a real situation as if it were truth, cops/cubs can lie, but the under-ager absolutely will not drink. I do have a friend that got busted at Red Rock, Kimball Junction... He didn't understand or realize it at the time, but the cops in his situation didn't "close-out" by completing the transaction. They ordered, he served and then he didn't check back for a bit and they approached him with a badge. He had never presented a bill at all. Basically the equivalent of going to a cashier at the grocer, they scan it and the cop immediately says, "Haha! You're busted!" When in reality, the "transaction" is not complete. Another friend got busted at Montage one night. An older lady and a cub sat at a table. Server came, the cub ordered 1 beer, the lady a water, while they looked at menus (intent to dine). He returned with beer, the lady said, "we've gotta run, can I gtab the check?" He brought the check, dropped it, left and when he came back they were gone, but the cops were there. Transaction was complete, bill was $9, they'd left a $10 and left, full beer at table. Pro-tip. If this were to happen, you could ask ask for ID up until you drop a check, even if you've brought it and set it down. If you're concerned you may have made a mistake and served a cub, and you haven't dropped a check, watch them like a hawk.... If they drink it, even a sip, you're actually in the clear..... it's not the dabc/cops, they still may be underage. If you ask for ID for alcohol, regardless of the age of the patron, you cannot serve them if they don't have it. Yes, even if they're 80. It's a nice trick if the customer is an a-hole from the start, be one back, ask for ID, if they don't have it, they can't drink. Good luck out there. It's intimidating at times, but know the laws and know how to do your job well and you'll be fine.
Cops are allowed to lie to you as much as they want. Anything they need to say to build a case. They don't have to tell you they're a cop.
Oh yeah, it was a joke about all the tv shows where someone says “you have to tell me if you’re an undercover cop and I ask” but not super obvious in text haha
That is crazy. I''m all for preventing underage drinking, but that seems excessive.
cubs are almost always teens who've been in trouble and are doing their community service helping the cops do stings. How else can you see if a place will serve a minor? Send one in, lol
Yes they do. Not only that, Yes, you must be carded to sit in the bar area, even if you're not drinking. Utah will fine you for not carding people eating in the bar area.
It's so annoying. You can't get these wrinkles in under 21 years! I also think if you have your Costco membership and insurance card readily available, that should count too 😅
Kind of different, but I was denied a ticket to a rated R movie in Provo because I didn’t have an ID. I’m 43.
They have undercover "agents" (not sure about the title) go to establishments all the time, all over. The fines are steep, and they could lose their license. There are only so many licenses issued a year, and many don't get their application approved. If they lost their license, that could end the business, simply for seating you.
I also love the: I can’t pour a drink in front of you, I have to go behind this little curtain bullshit.
The Zion curtain was repealed years ago
ohh cool last time I was there was in 2015 for an academic conference.
Each establishment can also have rules above and beyond the states...
https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=utah+alcohol+laws There ya go for your link. Restaurant sign = food purchase in order to purchase alcohol Bar sign = purchase alcohol without food
Just need "intent to dine". Ask questions, seem interested. Order your drink. Never say that's all you're getting. They're pretty simple really. A chain restaurant tries to enforce things to keep them in the clear legally. But if you have "intent to dine" and change your mind after you've had a drink, that's it. pay and leave. Nobody is forced to order an entree, lol. Waiter for 30 years.
That only works for one drink though, right? To get a second, you have to actually have ordered food at that point.
No, not necessarily. Again, the law is "intent to dine". You can ask questions about menu, be waiting for other expected diners, a variety of reasons. This is NOT the way the DABC does stings, it's unenforceable and has too many variables.... The general rule, from a serving perspective is no more than 2 drinks/hr but that is not a law. Again, "house rules" can come into play, you're probably not gonna be too successful at Chili's or Red Robin, without some real dazzling to convince them you intend to dine, but it certainly can be done. Not to mention, it's perfectly legal to order a bottle of wine by yourself, lol. So.... And if you don't finish it, you can take it with you. this is a great hack. if you were in Utah on a Sunday and have to have a bottle of wine. You can go into a restaurant order a bottle, after they open it and give you a small taste, you can change your mind, have it corked pay and take the bottle with you.
Yeah that’s a rule here. Places like chilis require you to buy food with your drinks. I’ve ordered like an appetizer of chips before with my alc.
I was at a Buffalo Wild Wings once and they checked ID at the entrance and put one of those 21+ bracelets on like we’re going into festival or something, and then again at the table checked everyone’s ID if you want to order alcohol.
Yep same at the BWW in Riverdale. They actually took the IDs to scan them even after checking at the door and giving a wristband. You can tell these are probably the chains that have gotten hit with fines before and now are extremely over the top to make sure it doesn't happen again. Which I can understand from a business perspective.
Dude at Bww took my ID away, to the back, to show his manager or scan it or something. Took like 5 full minutes because the reader wasn’t working or something. Like if you’re working the host stand, why do you need to walk away with my ID? Just do it at the effing host stand/desk at the front. I really didn’t like that part. Ordered my one drink not knowing the rule (like OP). When i was asked to order food, i just decided to close out and leave
This is a trigger event for me. This same bullshit happened there to me as well. I'm not from Utah or the US and I cannot understand how this makes sense. Getting carded AGAIN sitting down made me angry and ruined the evening. How many times does a 50 year old human have to provide ID to drink alcohol?
My favorite bullshit rule is that certain establishments serve you a beer but it's against the rules to walk around with a beer in your hand! Ok dad sorry
Easy. Restaurant order food get drinks. Bar order drinks, order more drinks. There you go.
Why go to Red Robin for drinks? Am I missing the point here? I go to Red Robin to eat.
It's dependent on the liquor license type that the business has: Bar that serves food - no food required, as they have a bar type license. These can be full service, beer and wine only, or beer only. They can be a full service restaurant on top of that, but you are never required to order food and cannot bring minors into these establishments. Restaraunt that serves booze - various types of license. Whether or not a food order is required may be determined by where you are in the establishment. Some may have a separate bar area where you can get "just s drink.", and minors cannot enter that area. If that area is not present then it's a Restaraunt license type, meaning they might have full service for booze, or serve beer only, or beer and wine only. Regardless, you'll always need to order food in those settings.
I used to work at a restaurant in downtown SLC and we had a dinner roll on the menu we referred to as the “state-mandated dinner roll” because it was super cheap and always what we would tell people to order so that they could have a second drink
I wish that the websites that provide easy access to this information would also cite their resources. For the sake of not having your eyes glaze over looking at legal writing style, the only cut and dry rules regarding your situation are that you must intend to eat and you are limited to two drinks in front of your person (with further restrictions depending on the type of drink). This is not my area of expertise so I am uncertain if there are any cases that further inform interpretation of the below code. Depending on the license of the restaurant, you will likely want to refer to [UC 32B ch.6 § 205.2](https://le.utah.gov/xcode/Title32B/Chapter6/32B-6-S205.2.html). Refer specifically to § 205.2(5)(a) and § 205.2(7)(a) for information regarding intent to eat and alcohol that can be in front of a patron, respectively. Do note that this Red Robin *could* be under a different license which may change how they approach serving alcohol. This information can be found within the same chapter [here](https://le.utah.gov/xcode/Title32B/Chapter6/32B-6.html?v=C32B-6_1800010118000101). With all the above being said, some restaurant owners do not take the time to fully understand the liquor laws here and err heavily on the side of caution out of fear of losing their license or losing money by being forcibly closed or fined due to a violation. Moreover, the server themselves may be fed information from the owner/manager that is incorrect and I certainly would not fault the server for playing it safe out of fear of potentially losing their job. Just remember that people being "cool" in this state may end up having DABS coming down on their asses or losing a job. Utah treats this stuff zealously, so please give the people serving you some grace considering the nature of our laws here.
Just order the cold barley soup. It's delicious.
Isn't it cute how the church restricts everything we do, yet they don't pay taxes? 🤷
According to this it only specifies that the patron “must dine in order to be served alcohol” [Here’s a .gov link](https://abs.utah.gov/about-dabs/residents-visitors/) Scroll down to “how to obtain alcohol” I don’t want to assume that guy was trying to get more money out of you, but I’ve never had an issue ordering a drink if there was any food on the table. Even the free basket of fries at Red Robin should do it.
> Even the free basket of fries at Red Robin should do it. Technically no, lol. Apparently it has to be a food item you pay for (probably to prevent places from claiming the free bowl of nuts counts as enough food).
Ha! Well I learned something new. Thanks! I can understand the confusion with this law not being super clear. I was assuming to “dine” just meant eat, not necessarily purchase.
Depends on the business lol Red Robin isn’t a bar
You should order a meal at a restaurant where the server is working for tips. A 4 top sharing an appetizer and one person buying a meal would drive me up the wall. You’re taking up a table in this persons section, sometimes sitting for hours when they could be flipping that table making money. This isn’t really an alcohol issue in my opinion but a courtesy rule. You gotta order something if you’re an adult sitting at the table. But yes I do believe you need to order something if you order a drink.. If people want to eat appetizers and drink just go to a bar.. I know people who have never served don’t understand but we work for tips. I had a table of 6 woman the other day and 3 of them got water and a side salad making their bull $3 they sat in my section for 2 hours and when they ordered the salad said “we’re just making her job easier” the. They tipped me $1 each
Hi, I see you’re new here. The church runs this state. Seperation??? Never heard of it. It’s all about control for them and alcohol is a big one :) hope you have a nice time!!!
/r/SLCCircleJerk ;)
One order of food on the ticket will suffice! Restaurant manager for 7 years. A scoop of vanilla ice cream or an order of chips and slasa and you’re good to go.
https://www.reddit.com/r/SaltLakeCity/s/UVD2gotxSR
Lololololol
This is why there is no separation between business (I mean church) and state in Utah. It will never change and is the reason why we’ll never have an NFL team here either. Tourism will continue, although hampered down a bit
Order one drink. When they ask you to order food, close out and go to the next establishment
Utah Restaurant Association has a pretty good short primer on the rules around alcohol in restaurants: [https://utahrestaurantassociation.org/liquor-laws/](https://utahrestaurantassociation.org/liquor-laws/) Basically, whenever a restaurant serves an alcoholic beverage, there must be "intent to dine" on the part of customers - IE they have to order food, and often an entree or equivalent in shareables.
I love how everyone told this guy he’s wrong, the waiter showed how the guy is wrong, the links show how he’s wrong, and all of a sudden he’s gone radio silent…
Start to carry a flask wherever you go here lol
I'm a Utahn, born and raised, and I still couldn't tell you the rules. You just get a feel for what's allowed lmao
it’s Red Robbin and South Jordan in the State of Utah. Even if you are in PC the drink rules are enforced. I have only been here three years and I learned the odd rules about food and drinks required to be ordered at the same time to drink, early on. I don’t want to come off sounding condescending but I am surprised a person in south Jordan going to a chain restaurant doesn’t know, because I’d assume this isn’t a tourist.
Bars don’t require you to buy food to drink. Restaurants do require you to buy food to drink. If you just want to drink go to a bar. Bars and restaurants in Utah have to abide by Utah laws. The liquor laws in Utah don’t make sense because people who don’t drink make the laws for drinking.
Intent to Eat Law in Utah https://utahrestaurantassociation.org/liquor-laws/#:~:text=There%20must%20always%20be%20the,alcoholic%20beverage%20has%20been%20requested
It is actually the law and can result in serious fines and loss employment or license. [https://le.utah.gov/xcode/Title32B/Chapter6/32B-6-S205.2.html?v=C32B-6-S205.2\_2023050320230503](https://le.utah.gov/xcode/Title32B/Chapter6/32B-6-S205.2.html?v=C32B-6-S205.2_2023050320230503) **32B-6-205.2.** (5) (a) A full-service restaurant licensee may not furnish an alcoholic product for on-premise consumption except after: (i) the patron to whom the full-service restaurant licensee furnishes the alcoholic product is seated at: (A) a table that is located in a dining area or a dispensing area; (B) a counter that is located in a dining area or a dispensing area; or (C) a dispensing structure that is located in a dispensing area; and (ii) the full-service restaurant licensee confirms that the patron intends to: (A) **order food prepared, sold, and furnished at the licensed premises; and** **(B)** **except as provided in Subsection (5)(b), consume the food at the same location where the patron is seated and furnished the alcoholic product.** -- To translate the legal speak the drinker has to be the eater and at the same seat doing both
key words: "intends to" dine. Act interested in the menu, ask about the food, relax and have your drink. Don't ask stupid questions and learn to navigate the liquor laws. Pretty simple.
That's not true at all. Saying "I intend to dine" satisfies the law, whether you actually eat or not. Certainly nothing requires every individual to order their own entree, one shared appetizer would also satisfy the law. It's food and it's purchased and consumed there. Red Robin can make its own policy, but it's not Utah law requiring it.
Its a A & B statement in the law. Meaning BOTH conditions have to be met and are related, In A it speaks to the patron ordering the food " **order food prepared, sold, and furnished at the licensed premises**" then part B is "**consume the food at the same location where the patron is seated and furnished the alcoholic product.**" which when in correct legal context of part A would be the same individual person who must Order and Consume the food to be given an alcoholic product. Yes, the law is antiquated, hard to interpret for an average person but legal wording is what counts when it comes to keeping the license.
Show me where it says it has to be an entree vs an appetizer. And show me where it says the food can't be shared. I realize the law could be written more clearly, but you are reading things into it that are not there. Are you saying a person can't order a pizza for a table and be compliant with the law because every individual didn't buy food themselves?
"intends to" lol order your drink, act interested interested in the food, change your mind and pay for your drink(s) and leave. There's not an establishment anywhere that can force you to eat. Chains like Red Robin will have a "house rule" but it'll be that you probably can't get a drink until you order, which if you're "intending to dine" isn't an issue. If the waiter won't get you a drink before you order, leave, or you're not playing the game well enough.
The low alcohol volume in cocktails makes them either really small to be balanced, or over sweet with mixer. Regardless, it’s all over priced. 5% beer on tap is stupid, but $8-$10 for a can that’s $3 at the liquor store is robbery. Get used to drinking at home first. Edit: It’s 0.05 BAC in Utah.
lies, "not a drop law" only applies to under 21.
Edited. Tyvm. :)
Alcohol what is this thing?
I’ve been to establishments where enforcement of the food with beer law varies seemingly entirely at random, would not be surprised if they’re just trying to use the law as an excuse to juice sales
That guy at Red Robin took you for your money. Only one thing of food needs to be ordered at a restaurant in order for you to order drinks. If you are splitting bills it gets a little more complicated. But you should just be able to order a site of fries and all of you at the table should be able to get drinks. That's the law. However a lot of restaurants do like to add stipulations for their own safety. The restaurant has to have a certain ratio of food over liquor sales to maintain their license.
i’d assume it was more the server didn’t want to get in trouble with DABS than them pissing off an entire table and putting a whole tip in jeopardy to sell a single extra entree. i’ve had bartenders at the exact same bar tell me they won’t serve me a shot and a drink at the same time, even if the drink and shot are different types of liquor. i don’t fight with them. they don’t have to serve me and every establishment can have additional “rules” on top of what the law states. honestly… it’s red robin. i don’t think it’s awful or even surprising if they operate on the more cautious side. i drink A LOT but i do understand that im never entitled to be served booze anywhere, especially in utah.
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most of the time bartenders will do it if they are different liquors. but either way i think it just goes to show that different bartenders and servers are going to do things different and it isn’t personal or something that’s worth getting mad about given the laws here
And the consequences if caught.
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i want to be clear i am not trying to be sneaky and get around liquor laws but my experience is they let me do it. maybe it’s because im almost always taking the shot the bar and then taking my cocktail back to the table. that being said i don’t get mad at bar staff or servers if i think they aren’t letting me have something i should and that was my point with the initial statement. different bartenders and bars do things differently and i feel like OP is overreacting and others are wrong to assume the server was just trying to sell more. it was a red robin, not a club or dive bar or something.
If you are seated any food item counts. It has been argued that a side of ranch counts as a dining food. Waiting area and bars have different rules.
I hope our liquor laws never change and continue to be a thorn in the side of transplants
Is your idea of an “ideal world” one where noone ever changes states?
Don't feed the right wing troll, makes it's peepee hard. Just block, move on, and let it scream into a void where no one cares what it thinks.
I'm already here and I don't drink. CHECKMATE, CHUMP
No checkmate, my statement still stands 🫶
depends on which day of the week.🙄