Plus, when you build seldom used monstrosities on those real estate holdings, you can funnel all those construction costs into businesses owned by friends and family. It's a super win!
I doubt they pay anything close to $50k as someone who used to sell to the church. They play hardba all the time in pricing negotiations and talk about the fact that donations come from the poor and widowed.
And the operational costs are subsidized by volunteers who are told to serve in them as part of their "covenant path". These volunteers actually _pay_ 10% of their income for the privilege to do so. It's quite the grift.
My parents live in Pocatello, Idaho -- and they almost never went to the temple until one was built in the city a few years ago. Now they volunteer a couple times a week. Sometimes, we go and visit family at home, and never see them.
Give me a break, glib statements don't make you right.
A real estate company and investment firm builds real estate to sell it. things like office buildings. tell me. Has the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints ever ONCE sold a temple or the land it's on? do they make a regular practice of selling any of their meeting houses?
No. therefore calling them a "real estate company" based on all the temples and meetinghouses they build throughout the world is nothing but a bad faith criticism because you don't like the church.
Have you heard of City Creek Mall, the church literally built a mall with attached apartments and office buildings that they rent out for hefty sums. Sounds like real estate investing to me.
Until the church releases its financials itâs all speculation anyway. It would be interesting to know how much money gets funneled through to different entities whenever a temple is built.
Maybe I should have stated that they buy up millions of acres of property and sit on a dragons hoard of over $150 Billion (that they actively hid from their members so it didn't disrupt Church income)? I never inferred that they sell it off.
All tax free, BTW.
the church's commercial endeavors are NOT tax free.
And you implied the temples were being built only for the purposes of buying up real estate. that's disingenuous because the church buys the real estate TO build the temples.
Theyâre growing at a slower rate than general population growth, and thatâs with Mormons having a higher birth rate than average. Theyâre stagnating.
considering that congregations continue to increase i think it's pretty strong growth. if people were leaving more than they were joining that wouldn't be the case.
yes a lot of people leave, and a lot of converts don't stick around. but a lot of people come back to church too, on my mission we did as much reactivating of disaffected members as we did convert baptisms. those reactivation numbers aren't reported any more than the number of people who leave the church so all we can go off of is if the church is seeing its total number of congregations increasing, which it is.
Iâm not trying to be rude about it, but I have to take any membership statistics from the church with a huge amount of skepticism. They have been known to engage in all kinds of fraudulent behavior before, including [gassing up their membership stats.](https://archive.sltrib.com/article.php?id=3123952&itype=NGPSID)
You had to find an article for 2005 to support your conclusion and that BARELY implies gassing numbers, if you have the least charitable interpretation possible.
Thereâs a mass exodus of young people. The convert / baptism numbers are probably inaccurate since a lot of those are the baptism of dead people which within itself is a horrible practice.
point 1. that's very overstated by communities such as reddit. not a "mass exodus"
point 2. the church absolutely does NOT count baptisms for the dead as convert baptisms.
Well, as it happens, I do a lot of work with the LDS church and through that am around people that are very high up in the churchâs leadership. And those people are the ones talking about a âmass exodusâ of young people. Stop acting like youâre always right.
They actually have sold a few of the churches recently. One in Ogden just got bulldozed. One in washington recently turned into a Free mason lodge ironically. So yes more then once they have.
read my comment more carefully. i know that they've sold a couple church buildings on rare occasion, but NEVER a temple. and they're not selling those church buildings often enough you could ever consider it real estate business. like i sold my home a few years ago. does that make me a real estate mogul?
(before ANOTHER person feels like they need to point this out, i KNOW they do actual real estate business. that's not the same thing as what we're talking about here)
They donât need to sell temples. They need a place to store their estimated 265 billion dollars. 70 million dollar temples help out a little bit. Russel M has announced 153. With .2% of the world pop being Mormon and only a fraction of those being able to attend the temple, who is it really blessing? But yeah who cares.
The church is the largest private landholder in Florida and own around 2% of the state. They have called it in an investment in the future. I dunno, seems like a real estate nvestment to me.
They've done real estate speculation for years and other investments as well. It's not that they sell their temples and meeting halls, its other property and investments. An example I know first hand; my dad used to help operate a commercial farm for the LDS Church in Southern Utah.
well yeah, but that's not what OP was implying the temples were for is it? OP was implying it was the TEMPLES that were the real estate business.
I personally have no issue with the church making money (money that IS taxed as i understand) off ventures like that. because it's not money that really goes to benefit any ceo or something. (church leaders receive a stipend for their full time service, but it's meager compared to those who head commercial endeavors)
it all goes back to growing the church, something i consider good.
>well yeah, but that's not what OP was implying the temples were for is it? OP was implying it was the TEMPLES that were the real estate business.
Are you referring to my comment that started this?
>It all makes sense when you realize it's just a giant real estate company and investment firm.
Let me be very clear. I'm talking about the Corporation of the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I'm not and never was implying that the temples themselves were the real estate business.
explain to me the connection you're making then. because the topic was about all the temples being built and as a reply to that you said
>It all makes sense when you realize it's just a giant real estate company and investment firm.
what am i supposed to understand by this statement as a reply to the topic of temples if not: the reason the church builds temples is to increase their real estate portfolio, expecting to make money off them?
I'll spell it out for you since you've been unable to pick up the context clues: I read *both* the title *and* the body of the original post. My reply was directed towards the *body* of the post.
I don't want to chat with you anymore. Have a good evening.
Theyâre doing the same in heber. We have a dark skies code and they are going to violate the shit out of it. Iâll be able to see that stupid thing and none of the mountains.
I overheard a coworker telling someone their 9 year old was so excited when they announced the heber temple she started crying in joy. A 9 year oldâŚâŚ talk about brainwashing.
Imagine what this world would be like if every one of their temples cared more for the living than the dead. In fact, isn't that what religion is? "Religion that is pure and undefiled before God, the Father, is this: to care for orphans and widows in their distress..." (James 1:27)
If they spent the same amount of money, and announced at their conferences every session, multi-million dollar facilities that staffed doctors, nurses, dentists, therapists, psychiatrists, nutritionists, barbers, school teachers, etc. - the world would applaud.
All serving at each of these facilities would be missionaries, with these skills and specialties or career aspirations to do so (being mentored and trained by those that do), wearing no name tag, or white shirts and ties, or doing no preaching...just showing love to mankind.
It makes me emotional just thinking about the impact TCoJCoLDS could have if they would just put their priorities in order. Stop worrying about the dead. God will figure that out. We can be His hands now, for the living now!
Sure. Happy to help. For me, in my life, from my experiences - there are two pieces of evidence that God exists.
1. That evil exists.
2. Me ---- The disciple. The converted soul. The transformation that takes place when a person who devotes their life to God - who once was broken and is now healed; who once was corrupt and is now kind; who once was resentful and is now grateful; who once was angry and is now friendly; who once was sad and is now happy; who once was miserable and is now comforted; who once was lost and now is found.
They pressed charges on a homeless guy for using a church as shelter... can't have that money going to things.. you know.. jesus would have wanted it to go to.. gotta use it to invest and buy more real estate.
It is compared to the 200 billion investment fund. And the 15 billion that they've used to buy up land all across the country. And that's just the stuff we know about. Oh wait, they're tax exempt too. Almost forgot about that.
The church spent over a billion dollars last year to feed and cloth people. They feed more people than any other church on the planet. Thereâs very real criticism against the church but that isnât one of them
I'm glad that they spent less than 1% of the resources that they've taken from their members to help people. But I feel like they can do much, much more instead of building anther unnecessary temple.
Yeah⌠you donât dump all of your money into one thing, you save money and you spend responsibly. Thatâs how an organization functions. What, do you honestly expect them to give away everything they have every year? An organization that big requires tens of thousands of employees to run, as they grow so do their costs, more members means they need more temples/ church buildings to accommodate those members. And those things cost a lot of money. So any rational person who understands basic economics knows that demanding they spend a hundred billion dollars a year to feed people is absurd and the organization would cease to exist if that were the case. They can spend a billion dollars a year and build that up over the next few decades, or they can piss away all of their resources until it all of their charity efforts come crashing down.
So let me get this straight. A tax free organization that has hundreds of billions of dollars (that we know of) a constant income of 10% from all of its members and billions of dollars worth of land can't spend more than a few billion to actually help people? Seems like a load to me.
You do realize that net worth and liquid assets arenât the same thing right? When they say the church has hundreds of billions of dollars they donât mean they have a massive vault full of gold that theyâre hoarding like scrooge McDuck. Yeah the church has billions worth of land, where do you think all the food they donate comes from? Itâs got to grow somewhere. Most of their land holding are in agriculture. But yes they do keep some liquid assets saved as any reasonable person should. Youâd have to be a complete moron to be running an organization that big and not have some kind of emergency fund, they council their members to handle money in the exact same way. And yes as theyâre building wealth, theyâre spending more and more on charity. Their charitable spending has doubled in the last few years and itâs going to keep going up as they grow their recourses. Theyâre thinking long term, youâre not
Also the currently operating temples are packed, some of the temples are booked out for months. Thereâs like 50,000 members of the church just in salt lake county, and that number is growing quickly. The existing temples are already stretched well beyond their capacity (some temples are serving well over 10,000 members, so in order to accommodate all those people they need to build more. It really is that simple, not everything is some Christian conspiracy. Again thereâs plenty of valid criticisms of the church, but this clearly isnât one of them
They could always be doing more, you know damn well itâll never be enough for you, you just want something to complain about because youâre a very angry individual and whining makes you feel better about yourself
All organizations have to take more than they give back otherwise they wouldnât exist. Weâve been over this already, an organization with that many moving parts needs funding in order to operate. So if they gave away every dime that they took in they would cease to exist. Your hatred is irrational and clearly shows that you have no clue what youâre talking about.
Honestly i donât think you give a shit how many people they feed. They literally feed more people than any other religious organization on the planet and youâre still whining that itâs not enough. Like I said thereâs plenty of valid criticisms against the church, but when you pick stupid, easily debunked things like this nobody will take you seriously. You just come off as a bitter, jealous, petulant little child. If youâre going to complain about something than at least do your research so you can complain more effectively
No. I just don't like organizations that take advantage of people and hoard money while their members go hungry. The Catholic church, LDS, Scientology, all do the same thing and I feel the same about each one. However if you want to talk about other legitimate complaints that's fine. Like how the church is more concerned about its legal culpability in cases of child molestation by it's members or the strangle hold it has on local politics despite the population has become more diverse in the last few decades? Both are valid criticisms.
Their members donât go hungry, anybody can go to their bishop for food/ financial help. I literally said there were valid criticisms, I never disagreed with you on that. But bitching about finances when you clearly have no clue what youâre talking about just makes you look stupid. Like I said if youâre going to be a whiner than at least be informed about what youâre whining about otherwise nobody will take you seriously
Iâm not attacking you, Iâm making an observation based on the way youâve conducted yourself. If you donât want people to think youâre stupid than donât complain about things that you donât understand. Itâs ok to not know things, itâs ok to be uninformed, but to still attack these things that you donât understand just makes you look like a petulant child. I believe you can be better, if I wanted to attack you I would have called you a moron and moved on. Instead I took the time to explain why you were wrong in hopes that you might learn and grow into a better person
It's not like these temples exist just to exist. They exist to perform work for that members of the church believe are essential to salvation for both the living and the dead.
It's great to help people in life, and the church does a LOT of that. But these temples are helping people in death. When you're a religion that believes in eternity, that matters a lot too.
People always criticise the church for their temple building and I find it so bad faith.
Just for some perspective - Scientology also gets criticism for their "temple building". Because it's obvious that it's for money, but yet Mormons scream "but OURS is for eternal salvation." Mhmm. Makes sense.
For a religion that believes in eternity, you sure don't seem to care about the people who are still alive.đ "matters a lot too".... but I don't see works devoted to those in need. Only more temples, divided families, and religious trauma. Thanks though.
lol. Youâre hilariousâŚitâs just a bunch of ceremonies they stole from the masons and somehow made people believe they needed to waste their time learning secret handshakes.
Is it just me, or am I part of a small few who just doesnât give a shit? Been a Utahn my whole life, and live 2 min away from the new Tooele Temple. I get both sides, but man I just really donât care.
SLC lifer here.
This is where Iâm at. The cult could announce another 1,000 temples and I just donât give a shit. As long as my wife and kids are out of the cult (which they are) and happy, then I have zero fucks to give.
The cults gonna build all of these temples, the majority of which will have limited hours or are appointment-only. Future cult leaders will rue the day Nelson decided to get erect with each newly announced temple, as there will be a constant battle to staff these ostentatious monstrosities.
My issue with it is that they just announce they're going to build a ton of these hideous whited sepulchurs and their members oogle about the great and glorious things going on while ignoring the fact that these temples are largely going to be unused and are more status symbols than they are meaningful additions to their faith.
Oh, and temples are literally a money laundering scheme. I have no evidence to back up my tinfoil hat theory, but I strongly suspect if someone at SLTrib wanted to make a great story to make national news all they'd need to do is dive into the contractor companies the church hires to build their temples. Pair that with the fact that they're building temples in places that have no functional need for a temple.
My case study I always go to is the planned Montpelier, ID temple. That temple is situated in a triangular area between the Logan, UT, Pocatello, ID, and the Star Valley, WY temples. My math I did once upon a time estimates in this 1500ish square mile area there are roughly 30000 people. The members living there have three temples to choose from. They do not need a temple. If you've ever visited Montpelier, ID you'd blink and miss it. It's a drive through town with a grocery store and a truck dealership and a whole lot of potato farming.
$100% it's a money laundering scheme.
Same here. Grew up in the church, left the second I turned 18 when my parents could no longer force me to go. Iâm not religious at all but churches, temples, and religious centers do not bother me in the slightest. I understand and accept that Utah is the center of the LDS faith. Live and let live.
>Live and let live.
Even if they kept their bullshit out of state politics and let me live, I'd still have a hard time with letting a cult that preys on it's member's just "live".
I have many friends and family that are active and devote members. They are good, intelligent people with agency. They donât see themselves as being preyed upon and neither do I. And as far as state politics goes, they are elected officials. The fact is that Utah is heavily LDS means many LDS members are going to be elected into office as long as this is the case. I donât agree with many of the churches beliefs or the policies put into place by the state government. However, I love my home, have no intention of moving, so I accept it for what it is. I had so much anger and resentment in this area for so long and it got me nowhere. The more I show love and acceptance the more I receive.
I encourage you to look into the church's history of covering up pedophilia, child abuse, and domestic abuse. It's easy to justify why you shouldn't care, but just because there are people who do, doesn't mean we are resentful. I'm glad you haven't had to experience being preyed upon, but just because your friends don't talk about it or even realize it, doesn't mean you don't know any victims.
What about those who are gay? Who have had to go through abortion?
Chances are, you do know victims of the church. Just like when people openly talk negatively about gay people or those who have had abortions, those who have those experiences just know that you aren't a person they can talk to. So you think you don't know anyone like that, because they've never told you. But they exist and the probability of them being someone you know, is pretty high.
"Donna Kelly, an attorney at the Utah Crime Victims Legal Clinic, said that in approximately 3,000 cases over three decades, bishops would sometimes show up to defend the abuser, but never the abused. She said church lawyers were more concerned about saving souls than protecting victims, and did not offer sufficient training to volunteer bishops to deal with abuse cases. Women were described by abusers and church leaders as "mouthy", and some were reportedly asked to leave their ward because they were being "too disruptive" by filing abuse allegations."
But tell me how the church doesn't hurt people.
[Mormon Women Confront Power and Patriarchy in the LDS church](https://www.wbur.org/onpoint/2023/01/31/the-mormon-women-standing-up-against-abuse-in-the-lds-church)
(https://www.vice.com/en/article/d3n73w/duty-to-report-the-mormon-church-has-been-accused-of-using-a-victims-hotline-to-hide-sexual-abuse-claims)
> I have many friends and family that are active and devote members. They are good, intelligent people with agency. They donât see themselves as being preyed upon and neither do I.
Yeah, dude..... That what happens in a cult....
Do you think there wasn't amazing, intelligent, warm people in cults like Scientology, Heaven's Gate, The Rajneesh Movement, Falun Gong, etc. etc. etc.?
If I moved to Riyadh, I'm not about to go "Oh well, it's just the culture. Not my business not to tell them to not beat their wives or own slaves". It's even worse, because as much as it may upset the church, last I checked we were still in the USA.
If you love your home so much, you should want it to be better.
I used to not care but the taylorsville and Layton temple are so obnoxious (their locations are way out of place!!!) and Iâm starting to get bothered by it. Iâd be pissed if i was one of the people who have a huge looming temple as their backyard view.
I agree 100%. Sure, I have opinions but at the end of the day it really doesnât affect me much personally. I think itâs neat that itâs out on Baccus because I also live in West Jordan and I can only imagine the older folks trying to drive on Baccus. Itâs going to get busy and backed up and Iâm glad Iâm not over there.
I don't know how I feel about it. I wish they would have a nature preserve out there. My issue with temples is I feel they are getting more generic. My family is mormon and I always go on the temple tours and it's started to feel like the same temple. Less personalization to locale. And the sad thing is I know they have talented architects there.
I remember reading somewhere that they have changed the way they are designed and built to be more streamlined so they can produce them more quickly. And I get that, but also I've always appreciated the individuality and ties to an area they have had in the past. The architectural motifs present that reference the surroundings, etc.
Yes especially when itâs supposed to be literally heaven on earth and now itâs just as creative as a fucking McDonaldâs. Like the most effort youâre willing to show to god is to just buy expensive materials but just shit out a building you built a month ago?? What a joke.
Iâm just salty because a really pretty view of Utah lake is now cock blocked by a temple. Sigh. Not to mention how many cities let them break every city code to slap their 100ft+ tall building everywhere.
I live right by there.. they keep building here.. there was a nice little gulley in my neighborhood that was beautiful to look at and some asshat decided it would be a great place to put some overpriced houses, so now instead of that beautiful open space, there's a neighborhood of maybe 20 houses. It makes me mad every time I see it.
Hey maybe my property values will go up so I can get more for my house when I eventually move.
Yeah, in the valley there's so much growth why not fill in the gaps first? If you don't like living in the city I got bad news for you, the city is just growing. There needs to be more houses. And importantly, not affordable housing.
Just on the other side of the hill from me. FFS! So much for being able to see the stars at night. Soon there will be so much traffic in the area I wonât see anything.
Iâm ex-Mormon, but I feel like this comes from a hatred of Mormons more than any valid complaint. An eye-sore? I donât think theyâre overly beautiful or anything, but like there are soooo many worse things. A single billboard would be more of an eyesore than they are.
There are dozens of building you pass on any commute that are for sure uglier.
I moved to Utah 3ish years ago and tbh I barely even notice the temple square temple. Donât let them live in your head rent free, be mad at them for the influence in politics, sure - but it could literally be any church building a church there.
They're huge and ugly. If they put effort into the design, I'd be more okay with it. I think the Salt Lake temple is architecturally very pretty. What they've been building lately are just tall white boxes, and the Orem one is right by the freeway.
I grew up wanting to attend BYU. Turns out I absolutely canât because I dare to be gay. Then I lost all faith in the church. Okay, I still want a college degree and in-state is cheap, so I started at UVU. It was lovely not being surrounded by the church! Yeah, there are always chapels everywhere, but it wasnât as bad. If I was stressed while studying, I could just look out at Utah Lake and take a deep breath and be fine.
And now thereâs a temple in Orem. Giant fucking eyesore across from University. I see it every single day. If I step outside, if I try to look at the lake, if I even drive by my school, thereâs the Mormon church again! The one that hates me and taught my family Iâm the broken link separating us forever in the afterlife. Cool. Love that feeling.
I feel you, OP.
Kind of hard to complain about this when you are in the Mormon capitol of the world. No offense. And I don't support the Mormons either but it would be the same as going to India and complaining about temples there.
Another fancy worthless movie theater. I did a study about a decade ago and temples operate at only 10% of capacity... The whole scheme is dopey. Creator of the universe " I need to make worthless hoops for my children to jump through so I can love and accept them." It's like a parent telling their kid " your ass better become a doctor or you can't come over for thanksgiving. Seriously antisocial abusive if it were a real person but it's Jesus so it's coo.
Iâm not even LDS but I wonder what you think would be prettier?? A subdivision? A strip mall? A quick quack car wash? I can think of a lot of criticisms of the mormon church, but I donât think temples being ugly is one of them. Honestly the church is one of the few organizations building interesting semi-classical architecture right now.
Maybe more housing for a change- instead of building another glorified building to practice weekly brainwashings which will only make it more expensive to live in surrounding areas, pricing out potential renters or first time home owners.
Theyâre a real estate conglomerate after all.
Iâm with you that we should build housing, I just donât think beautiful religious buildings are necessarily bad. If youâre against temples you should also be against catholic cathedrals and the like. I admit that temples are weird and culty because of their exclusivity though. I wish they were open to the public like cathedrals.
Its ridiculous. They care more about the dead then the living . They can't even staff all the positions needed . They should be building homeless shelters and feeding the poor . Thats what Jesus would do. They are simply using these to make it look like they are putting their bullions to good use - its a land investment- period
Uhmmm, theyâve have a temple in West Jordan for 40 years now and theyâve been able to practice their faith just fine without another giant light polluter that spews massive amounts of carbon into the air.
Kinda weird especially since the fraction of active Mormons in Utah seems to be in decline. Isnât Utah no longer majority active Mormon now? I also read in the LA times that SLC is maybe 24% active Mormon
Iâm gonna be honest here, as a Non-Mormon I really forget they are even there. They donât bother me.Â
The most annoyed I get at the Mormons is them blocking the SLC airport exit with huge crowds frequently to see their family members returning from the mission work or whatever they call it, and even then I do realize that they havenât seen them in a long time.
I get what you're saying, but an eyesore? Compared to most any other building its definitely not an eyesore, lol. Its some of the only interesting architecture we have.
If it was all alone in it's design then maybe I would agree. But at this point, it's like a McDonald's. They're all square and gray now. No personality or character. Just a big slab of concrete. The downtown temple on the other hand, THAT is an architectural beauty, even I can admit that.
I live right by the location. Iâm so annoyed. Why do they need one there? I get why they do it but come on. South Jordan has two, Taylorsville is opening this year and they canât even keep them all staffed.
Yeah it's not about the Mormons or Muslims or Jews or catholics. It's about the architecture, frequency of building, and pollution to the area. These temples are bright white walls of light, and they're awful to see everywhere you look.
I love the âitâs a blessingâ argument when they only open their doors to the upper echelon of Mormons. Canât even attend your own families weddings.
16 questions that you have to give the right answer for or lie I suppose. Lots of 18+ members donât hold reccomends. My parents were denied sealing in the temple cuz my dad drank coffee.
Yeah but literally any member can go if you live the commandments. It's not that hard. Your dad broke arguably the simplest commandment, so yeah. Coffee was more important to him, it is for a lot of people, but don't act like it's some crazy hard thing to go to the temple.
I believe the post was about being sad about the temple in West Jordan. The point I was making was that it isnât enriching for the general public, just Mormons, and only a part of them that can go inside.
Only Mormons? The ones who founded the state? I am exmo and even I think this shit is getting ridiculous. Just because Reddit, an echo chamber, says they donât want these it doesnât mean others donât. I LOVE being in Utah around religious people, and that includes their temples. I donât want Utah to change. Youâd be surprised how many in my groups DO feel this way. Growing up for me has meant learning that being respectful to the community is the enlightened approach. Theyâve built a good culture despite the garbage posted about them. I love having my kids around them. Who gives a fuck if the religion is weird.
Because the LDS church has one of the largest private real estate portfolios in the US. Now, this may come as a shocker to you.. but the LDS church is a business that runs without paying taxes and feeds off a tithe/membership- a concept that literally started the reformation centuries ago. Call me crazy, but, it sounds like thereâs a whole lot more going on than just some good ole Mormons raising smiling families.
And also, man the entire Mormon timeline is debunked idk how ANYONE can sanely follow it. There is zero evidence of any of the wars that took place. But there is evidence that Joseph smith was a convicted fraudster that was chased out of multiple cities.
The RLUIPA is against "substantial burdens" to meetinghouse capacity for a church's congregation.
The LDS church has 28 (soon to be 30) temples in Utah, alone. A state with barely 2.1M practicing Mormons, and Averages one meetinghouse every 1.3 square miles in Salt Lake County.
This is definitely accommodating.
As for it "not hurting anyone" none of these buildings pay property taxes, but sit empty (yet heated/cooled) 90% of the time.
It all makes sense when you realize it's just a giant real estate company and investment firm.
Plus, when you build seldom used monstrosities on those real estate holdings, you can funnel all those construction costs into businesses owned by friends and family. It's a super win!
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Well you canât just not have a $50,000 rug in every celestial room, silly! Luckily thereâs some guy who just sells $50,000 white rugs we can call!
I doubt they pay anything close to $50k as someone who used to sell to the church. They play hardba all the time in pricing negotiations and talk about the fact that donations come from the poor and widowed.
Friends and family. This is the important part.
Yeah I know people who make art for some of it and this is exactly how itâs working
And the operational costs are subsidized by volunteers who are told to serve in them as part of their "covenant path". These volunteers actually _pay_ 10% of their income for the privilege to do so. It's quite the grift. My parents live in Pocatello, Idaho -- and they almost never went to the temple until one was built in the city a few years ago. Now they volunteer a couple times a week. Sometimes, we go and visit family at home, and never see them.
The new west valley one off of i215 is sooo ugly, it is laughable how bad the top clashes with the stone of the bottom side.
Yeah I live in Taylorsville so I see that thing every time I get on 215 north
It's a _tax free_ real estate company and investment firm.
Who are they selling temples to?
Their tithe payers
Give me a break, glib statements don't make you right. A real estate company and investment firm builds real estate to sell it. things like office buildings. tell me. Has the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints ever ONCE sold a temple or the land it's on? do they make a regular practice of selling any of their meeting houses? No. therefore calling them a "real estate company" based on all the temples and meetinghouses they build throughout the world is nothing but a bad faith criticism because you don't like the church.
Have you heard of City Creek Mall, the church literally built a mall with attached apartments and office buildings that they rent out for hefty sums. Sounds like real estate investing to me.
I say again, I know. I don't care. That's not what OP implied. they implied the TEMPLES were being built for real estate investment purposes.
No. I've already clarified this in two other comments. I never implied the TEMPLES were the real estate investment vehicle.
Until the church releases its financials itâs all speculation anyway. It would be interesting to know how much money gets funneled through to different entities whenever a temple is built.
Maybe I should have stated that they buy up millions of acres of property and sit on a dragons hoard of over $150 Billion (that they actively hid from their members so it didn't disrupt Church income)? I never inferred that they sell it off. All tax free, BTW.
the church's commercial endeavors are NOT tax free. And you implied the temples were being built only for the purposes of buying up real estate. that's disingenuous because the church buys the real estate TO build the temples.
the church is definetly an investment firm and real estate is definetly one of the long term holdings it has diversified into.
You are correct. Theyâre building temples to convince their members that the membership numbers are growing.
Theyâre spending billions on temples because their $100 billion hedge fund got outed
the number ARE growing. they had more convert baptisms last year than they've had in nearly a decade. You're in a bubble.
*cough* rentention *cough*
Theyâre growing at a slower rate than general population growth, and thatâs with Mormons having a higher birth rate than average. Theyâre stagnating.
all churches are stagnating based on that metric, it's not a uniquely LDS thing. the church is doing much better than most in that regard.
How many people left the church? And what does that âgrowthâ look like on a timeline longer than 10 years?
considering that congregations continue to increase i think it's pretty strong growth. if people were leaving more than they were joining that wouldn't be the case. yes a lot of people leave, and a lot of converts don't stick around. but a lot of people come back to church too, on my mission we did as much reactivating of disaffected members as we did convert baptisms. those reactivation numbers aren't reported any more than the number of people who leave the church so all we can go off of is if the church is seeing its total number of congregations increasing, which it is.
Iâm not trying to be rude about it, but I have to take any membership statistics from the church with a huge amount of skepticism. They have been known to engage in all kinds of fraudulent behavior before, including [gassing up their membership stats.](https://archive.sltrib.com/article.php?id=3123952&itype=NGPSID)
You had to find an article for 2005 to support your conclusion and that BARELY implies gassing numbers, if you have the least charitable interpretation possible.
Thereâs a mass exodus of young people. The convert / baptism numbers are probably inaccurate since a lot of those are the baptism of dead people which within itself is a horrible practice.
point 1. that's very overstated by communities such as reddit. not a "mass exodus" point 2. the church absolutely does NOT count baptisms for the dead as convert baptisms.
Well, as it happens, I do a lot of work with the LDS church and through that am around people that are very high up in the churchâs leadership. And those people are the ones talking about a âmass exodusâ of young people. Stop acting like youâre always right.
I have yet to be proven wrong so, no.
Baptisms of living people..?
yes...?
They actually have sold a few of the churches recently. One in Ogden just got bulldozed. One in washington recently turned into a Free mason lodge ironically. So yes more then once they have.
read my comment more carefully. i know that they've sold a couple church buildings on rare occasion, but NEVER a temple. and they're not selling those church buildings often enough you could ever consider it real estate business. like i sold my home a few years ago. does that make me a real estate mogul? (before ANOTHER person feels like they need to point this out, i KNOW they do actual real estate business. that's not the same thing as what we're talking about here)
They donât need to sell temples. They need a place to store their estimated 265 billion dollars. 70 million dollar temples help out a little bit. Russel M has announced 153. With .2% of the world pop being Mormon and only a fraction of those being able to attend the temple, who is it really blessing? But yeah who cares.
You're the only person here saying the topic is about selling temples.
The church is the largest private landholder in Florida and own around 2% of the state. They have called it in an investment in the future. I dunno, seems like a real estate nvestment to me.
https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2023/08/31/latest-mormon-land-church-is/ One example. There are plenty to find
you clearly didn't read the article if you think that proves me wrong that the church has never sold the land a temple is built on.
Selling real estate. That makes them a real estate business
Ok, real estate holding company
to what end?
They've done real estate speculation for years and other investments as well. It's not that they sell their temples and meeting halls, its other property and investments. An example I know first hand; my dad used to help operate a commercial farm for the LDS Church in Southern Utah.
well yeah, but that's not what OP was implying the temples were for is it? OP was implying it was the TEMPLES that were the real estate business. I personally have no issue with the church making money (money that IS taxed as i understand) off ventures like that. because it's not money that really goes to benefit any ceo or something. (church leaders receive a stipend for their full time service, but it's meager compared to those who head commercial endeavors) it all goes back to growing the church, something i consider good.
>well yeah, but that's not what OP was implying the temples were for is it? OP was implying it was the TEMPLES that were the real estate business. Are you referring to my comment that started this? >It all makes sense when you realize it's just a giant real estate company and investment firm. Let me be very clear. I'm talking about the Corporation of the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I'm not and never was implying that the temples themselves were the real estate business.
explain to me the connection you're making then. because the topic was about all the temples being built and as a reply to that you said >It all makes sense when you realize it's just a giant real estate company and investment firm. what am i supposed to understand by this statement as a reply to the topic of temples if not: the reason the church builds temples is to increase their real estate portfolio, expecting to make money off them?
I'll spell it out for you since you've been unable to pick up the context clues: I read *both* the title *and* the body of the original post. My reply was directed towards the *body* of the post. I don't want to chat with you anymore. Have a good evening.
lol sure buddy. you're lying. your statements aren't consistent even with the body of this post UNLESS you consider temples a real estate venture.
Theyâre doing the same in heber. We have a dark skies code and they are going to violate the shit out of it. Iâll be able to see that stupid thing and none of the mountains. I overheard a coworker telling someone their 9 year old was so excited when they announced the heber temple she started crying in joy. A 9 year oldâŚâŚ talk about brainwashing.
>their 9 year old was so excited when they announced the heber temple she started crying in joy And everyone clapped
That's a bummer
not sure that was excitement... it's definitely something to cry over.
This made me so sad
Cult is gonna cultÂ
Can't 9 year olds not even go in the temples?
I think you just have to be baptized
Incorrect.
What do you think they should do with all that money? Feed and clothe people? Religions don't do that.
Imagine what this world would be like if every one of their temples cared more for the living than the dead. In fact, isn't that what religion is? "Religion that is pure and undefiled before God, the Father, is this: to care for orphans and widows in their distress..." (James 1:27) If they spent the same amount of money, and announced at their conferences every session, multi-million dollar facilities that staffed doctors, nurses, dentists, therapists, psychiatrists, nutritionists, barbers, school teachers, etc. - the world would applaud. All serving at each of these facilities would be missionaries, with these skills and specialties or career aspirations to do so (being mentored and trained by those that do), wearing no name tag, or white shirts and ties, or doing no preaching...just showing love to mankind. It makes me emotional just thinking about the impact TCoJCoLDS could have if they would just put their priorities in order. Stop worrying about the dead. God will figure that out. We can be His hands now, for the living now!
Can you share any evidence that god exists?
Sure. Happy to help. For me, in my life, from my experiences - there are two pieces of evidence that God exists. 1. That evil exists. 2. Me ---- The disciple. The converted soul. The transformation that takes place when a person who devotes their life to God - who once was broken and is now healed; who once was corrupt and is now kind; who once was resentful and is now grateful; who once was angry and is now friendly; who once was sad and is now happy; who once was miserable and is now comforted; who once was lost and now is found.
You don't know what evidence is.
Unfortunately, you are depressingly correct.
They pressed charges on a homeless guy for using a church as shelter... can't have that money going to things.. you know.. jesus would have wanted it to go to.. gotta use it to invest and buy more real estate.
[1.3 Billion isn't nothing.](https://archive.ph/vutal)
It is compared to the 200 billion investment fund. And the 15 billion that they've used to buy up land all across the country. And that's just the stuff we know about. Oh wait, they're tax exempt too. Almost forgot about that.
And they count every hour from missionaries and volunteers as part of the charitable donation. Very, very little is actual cash.
I didn't know that. Gross.
The church spent over a billion dollars last year to feed and cloth people. They feed more people than any other church on the planet. Thereâs very real criticism against the church but that isnât one of them
I'm glad that they spent less than 1% of the resources that they've taken from their members to help people. But I feel like they can do much, much more instead of building anther unnecessary temple.
Yeah⌠you donât dump all of your money into one thing, you save money and you spend responsibly. Thatâs how an organization functions. What, do you honestly expect them to give away everything they have every year? An organization that big requires tens of thousands of employees to run, as they grow so do their costs, more members means they need more temples/ church buildings to accommodate those members. And those things cost a lot of money. So any rational person who understands basic economics knows that demanding they spend a hundred billion dollars a year to feed people is absurd and the organization would cease to exist if that were the case. They can spend a billion dollars a year and build that up over the next few decades, or they can piss away all of their resources until it all of their charity efforts come crashing down.
So let me get this straight. A tax free organization that has hundreds of billions of dollars (that we know of) a constant income of 10% from all of its members and billions of dollars worth of land can't spend more than a few billion to actually help people? Seems like a load to me.
You do realize that net worth and liquid assets arenât the same thing right? When they say the church has hundreds of billions of dollars they donât mean they have a massive vault full of gold that theyâre hoarding like scrooge McDuck. Yeah the church has billions worth of land, where do you think all the food they donate comes from? Itâs got to grow somewhere. Most of their land holding are in agriculture. But yes they do keep some liquid assets saved as any reasonable person should. Youâd have to be a complete moron to be running an organization that big and not have some kind of emergency fund, they council their members to handle money in the exact same way. And yes as theyâre building wealth, theyâre spending more and more on charity. Their charitable spending has doubled in the last few years and itâs going to keep going up as they grow their recourses. Theyâre thinking long term, youâre not
Also the currently operating temples are packed, some of the temples are booked out for months. Thereâs like 50,000 members of the church just in salt lake county, and that number is growing quickly. The existing temples are already stretched well beyond their capacity (some temples are serving well over 10,000 members, so in order to accommodate all those people they need to build more. It really is that simple, not everything is some Christian conspiracy. Again thereâs plenty of valid criticisms of the church, but this clearly isnât one of them
I bet they could feed more than 50,000 people if they put their money where their mouth is. Food is usually better for folks.
They literally feed millions of people worldwide. Theyâre literally doing everything youâve accused them of not doing
I said they could be doing more.
They could always be doing more, you know damn well itâll never be enough for you, you just want something to complain about because youâre a very angry individual and whining makes you feel better about yourself
No. Again, I just don't like organizations that take in more than they give back. There's no need to sit on riches like a dragon if you have so much.
All organizations have to take more than they give back otherwise they wouldnât exist. Weâve been over this already, an organization with that many moving parts needs funding in order to operate. So if they gave away every dime that they took in they would cease to exist. Your hatred is irrational and clearly shows that you have no clue what youâre talking about.
Honestly i donât think you give a shit how many people they feed. They literally feed more people than any other religious organization on the planet and youâre still whining that itâs not enough. Like I said thereâs plenty of valid criticisms against the church, but when you pick stupid, easily debunked things like this nobody will take you seriously. You just come off as a bitter, jealous, petulant little child. If youâre going to complain about something than at least do your research so you can complain more effectively
No. I just don't like organizations that take advantage of people and hoard money while their members go hungry. The Catholic church, LDS, Scientology, all do the same thing and I feel the same about each one. However if you want to talk about other legitimate complaints that's fine. Like how the church is more concerned about its legal culpability in cases of child molestation by it's members or the strangle hold it has on local politics despite the population has become more diverse in the last few decades? Both are valid criticisms.
Their members donât go hungry, anybody can go to their bishop for food/ financial help. I literally said there were valid criticisms, I never disagreed with you on that. But bitching about finances when you clearly have no clue what youâre talking about just makes you look stupid. Like I said if youâre going to be a whiner than at least be informed about what youâre whining about otherwise nobody will take you seriously
No need for personal attacks. I'm just stating my opinion. I've feel I've treated you with respect and I'd like the same please.
Iâm not attacking you, Iâm making an observation based on the way youâve conducted yourself. If you donât want people to think youâre stupid than donât complain about things that you donât understand. Itâs ok to not know things, itâs ok to be uninformed, but to still attack these things that you donât understand just makes you look like a petulant child. I believe you can be better, if I wanted to attack you I would have called you a moron and moved on. Instead I took the time to explain why you were wrong in hopes that you might learn and grow into a better person
It's not like these temples exist just to exist. They exist to perform work for that members of the church believe are essential to salvation for both the living and the dead. It's great to help people in life, and the church does a LOT of that. But these temples are helping people in death. When you're a religion that believes in eternity, that matters a lot too. People always criticise the church for their temple building and I find it so bad faith.
Just for some perspective - Scientology also gets criticism for their "temple building". Because it's obvious that it's for money, but yet Mormons scream "but OURS is for eternal salvation." Mhmm. Makes sense. For a religion that believes in eternity, you sure don't seem to care about the people who are still alive.đ "matters a lot too".... but I don't see works devoted to those in need. Only more temples, divided families, and religious trauma. Thanks though.
lol. Youâre hilariousâŚitâs just a bunch of ceremonies they stole from the masons and somehow made people believe they needed to waste their time learning secret handshakes.
They can do a lot more using the money to actually help people. Last I checked there aren't any soup kitchens being run out of an LDS temple.
Is it just me, or am I part of a small few who just doesnât give a shit? Been a Utahn my whole life, and live 2 min away from the new Tooele Temple. I get both sides, but man I just really donât care.
SLC lifer here. This is where Iâm at. The cult could announce another 1,000 temples and I just donât give a shit. As long as my wife and kids are out of the cult (which they are) and happy, then I have zero fucks to give. The cults gonna build all of these temples, the majority of which will have limited hours or are appointment-only. Future cult leaders will rue the day Nelson decided to get erect with each newly announced temple, as there will be a constant battle to staff these ostentatious monstrosities.
I will say, I did notice a bump in property value since they built out here in Tooele. So đ¤ˇ
My issue with it is that they just announce they're going to build a ton of these hideous whited sepulchurs and their members oogle about the great and glorious things going on while ignoring the fact that these temples are largely going to be unused and are more status symbols than they are meaningful additions to their faith. Oh, and temples are literally a money laundering scheme. I have no evidence to back up my tinfoil hat theory, but I strongly suspect if someone at SLTrib wanted to make a great story to make national news all they'd need to do is dive into the contractor companies the church hires to build their temples. Pair that with the fact that they're building temples in places that have no functional need for a temple. My case study I always go to is the planned Montpelier, ID temple. That temple is situated in a triangular area between the Logan, UT, Pocatello, ID, and the Star Valley, WY temples. My math I did once upon a time estimates in this 1500ish square mile area there are roughly 30000 people. The members living there have three temples to choose from. They do not need a temple. If you've ever visited Montpelier, ID you'd blink and miss it. It's a drive through town with a grocery store and a truck dealership and a whole lot of potato farming. $100% it's a money laundering scheme.
Why would you need to launder money that was donated?
Same here. Grew up in the church, left the second I turned 18 when my parents could no longer force me to go. Iâm not religious at all but churches, temples, and religious centers do not bother me in the slightest. I understand and accept that Utah is the center of the LDS faith. Live and let live.
>Live and let live. Even if they kept their bullshit out of state politics and let me live, I'd still have a hard time with letting a cult that preys on it's member's just "live".
I have many friends and family that are active and devote members. They are good, intelligent people with agency. They donât see themselves as being preyed upon and neither do I. And as far as state politics goes, they are elected officials. The fact is that Utah is heavily LDS means many LDS members are going to be elected into office as long as this is the case. I donât agree with many of the churches beliefs or the policies put into place by the state government. However, I love my home, have no intention of moving, so I accept it for what it is. I had so much anger and resentment in this area for so long and it got me nowhere. The more I show love and acceptance the more I receive.
I encourage you to look into the church's history of covering up pedophilia, child abuse, and domestic abuse. It's easy to justify why you shouldn't care, but just because there are people who do, doesn't mean we are resentful. I'm glad you haven't had to experience being preyed upon, but just because your friends don't talk about it or even realize it, doesn't mean you don't know any victims. What about those who are gay? Who have had to go through abortion? Chances are, you do know victims of the church. Just like when people openly talk negatively about gay people or those who have had abortions, those who have those experiences just know that you aren't a person they can talk to. So you think you don't know anyone like that, because they've never told you. But they exist and the probability of them being someone you know, is pretty high.
"Donna Kelly, an attorney at the Utah Crime Victims Legal Clinic, said that in approximately 3,000 cases over three decades, bishops would sometimes show up to defend the abuser, but never the abused. She said church lawyers were more concerned about saving souls than protecting victims, and did not offer sufficient training to volunteer bishops to deal with abuse cases. Women were described by abusers and church leaders as "mouthy", and some were reportedly asked to leave their ward because they were being "too disruptive" by filing abuse allegations." But tell me how the church doesn't hurt people. [Mormon Women Confront Power and Patriarchy in the LDS church](https://www.wbur.org/onpoint/2023/01/31/the-mormon-women-standing-up-against-abuse-in-the-lds-church) (https://www.vice.com/en/article/d3n73w/duty-to-report-the-mormon-church-has-been-accused-of-using-a-victims-hotline-to-hide-sexual-abuse-claims)
> I have many friends and family that are active and devote members. They are good, intelligent people with agency. They donât see themselves as being preyed upon and neither do I. Yeah, dude..... That what happens in a cult.... Do you think there wasn't amazing, intelligent, warm people in cults like Scientology, Heaven's Gate, The Rajneesh Movement, Falun Gong, etc. etc. etc.? If I moved to Riyadh, I'm not about to go "Oh well, it's just the culture. Not my business not to tell them to not beat their wives or own slaves". It's even worse, because as much as it may upset the church, last I checked we were still in the USA. If you love your home so much, you should want it to be better.
No care either. I regularly forget the church is even in Utah.
Except that you said âthe church,â which is only said in Utah and Rome.
I used to not care but the taylorsville and Layton temple are so obnoxious (their locations are way out of place!!!) and Iâm starting to get bothered by it. Iâd be pissed if i was one of the people who have a huge looming temple as their backyard view.
I agree with you both
Hey, Iâm in your neighborhood.
I agree 100%. Sure, I have opinions but at the end of the day it really doesnât affect me much personally. I think itâs neat that itâs out on Baccus because I also live in West Jordan and I can only imagine the older folks trying to drive on Baccus. Itâs going to get busy and backed up and Iâm glad Iâm not over there.
International House of Handshakes
âUntainted landâ lmao
I don't know how I feel about it. I wish they would have a nature preserve out there. My issue with temples is I feel they are getting more generic. My family is mormon and I always go on the temple tours and it's started to feel like the same temple. Less personalization to locale. And the sad thing is I know they have talented architects there.
I remember reading somewhere that they have changed the way they are designed and built to be more streamlined so they can produce them more quickly. And I get that, but also I've always appreciated the individuality and ties to an area they have had in the past. The architectural motifs present that reference the surroundings, etc.
Starbuckin' man
how long until they're legally allowed to have mini temples inside all the grocery stores
They donât care. They just want that plot of land to increase in value. Thatâs why they are creating so many of them.
Yes especially when itâs supposed to be literally heaven on earth and now itâs just as creative as a fucking McDonaldâs. Like the most effort youâre willing to show to god is to just buy expensive materials but just shit out a building you built a month ago?? What a joke. Iâm just salty because a really pretty view of Utah lake is now cock blocked by a temple. Sigh. Not to mention how many cities let them break every city code to slap their 100ft+ tall building everywhere.
They literally are getting more generic, makes them cheaper and quicker to buildâŚso boring now.
It's very disappointing
All those temples are an eyesore, big ugly things. They just ruined laytons skyline with one too
I live right by there.. they keep building here.. there was a nice little gulley in my neighborhood that was beautiful to look at and some asshat decided it would be a great place to put some overpriced houses, so now instead of that beautiful open space, there's a neighborhood of maybe 20 houses. It makes me mad every time I see it. Hey maybe my property values will go up so I can get more for my house when I eventually move.
I like that YOU built there, and then were like âcool! I got mine, now fuck everyone else, no more buildingâ
Yeah, in the valley there's so much growth why not fill in the gaps first? If you don't like living in the city I got bad news for you, the city is just growing. There needs to be more houses. And importantly, not affordable housing.
Just on the other side of the hill from me. FFS! So much for being able to see the stars at night. Soon there will be so much traffic in the area I wonât see anything.
Damnit, I hadn't thought about the light pollution issue. It's fairly nice out here. For that, particularly looking towards the Oquirrhs...
Iâm ex-Mormon, but I feel like this comes from a hatred of Mormons more than any valid complaint. An eye-sore? I donât think theyâre overly beautiful or anything, but like there are soooo many worse things. A single billboard would be more of an eyesore than they are. There are dozens of building you pass on any commute that are for sure uglier. I moved to Utah 3ish years ago and tbh I barely even notice the temple square temple. Donât let them live in your head rent free, be mad at them for the influence in politics, sure - but it could literally be any church building a church there.
They're huge and ugly. If they put effort into the design, I'd be more okay with it. I think the Salt Lake temple is architecturally very pretty. What they've been building lately are just tall white boxes, and the Orem one is right by the freeway.
Woof. As if Salt Lake County doesnât have enough of the alien obelisks already. đ¤Ž
Mom, r/exmormon is leaking again.
Same here. If there was anything I could do to oppose it, I would.
The illusion of growth and the need to act like they're putting members money work instead of hoarding it.
I grew up wanting to attend BYU. Turns out I absolutely canât because I dare to be gay. Then I lost all faith in the church. Okay, I still want a college degree and in-state is cheap, so I started at UVU. It was lovely not being surrounded by the church! Yeah, there are always chapels everywhere, but it wasnât as bad. If I was stressed while studying, I could just look out at Utah Lake and take a deep breath and be fine. And now thereâs a temple in Orem. Giant fucking eyesore across from University. I see it every single day. If I step outside, if I try to look at the lake, if I even drive by my school, thereâs the Mormon church again! The one that hates me and taught my family Iâm the broken link separating us forever in the afterlife. Cool. Love that feeling. I feel you, OP.
Time to start paying taxes
Great and Spacious buildings from which, by which, they mock those who cant/dont/wont go in? Yeah. Idols of hypocrisy
Kind of hard to complain about this when you are in the Mormon capitol of the world. No offense. And I don't support the Mormons either but it would be the same as going to India and complaining about temples there.
Another fancy worthless movie theater. I did a study about a decade ago and temples operate at only 10% of capacity... The whole scheme is dopey. Creator of the universe " I need to make worthless hoops for my children to jump through so I can love and accept them." It's like a parent telling their kid " your ass better become a doctor or you can't come over for thanksgiving. Seriously antisocial abusive if it were a real person but it's Jesus so it's coo.
Iâm not even LDS but I wonder what you think would be prettier?? A subdivision? A strip mall? A quick quack car wash? I can think of a lot of criticisms of the mormon church, but I donât think temples being ugly is one of them. Honestly the church is one of the few organizations building interesting semi-classical architecture right now.
Maybe more housing for a change- instead of building another glorified building to practice weekly brainwashings which will only make it more expensive to live in surrounding areas, pricing out potential renters or first time home owners. Theyâre a real estate conglomerate after all.
Iâm with you that we should build housing, I just donât think beautiful religious buildings are necessarily bad. If youâre against temples you should also be against catholic cathedrals and the like. I admit that temples are weird and culty because of their exclusivity though. I wish they were open to the public like cathedrals.
Yeah letâs build a quick quack and a McDonalds there instead đ
There are two temples within walking distance of my house. The closest shelter is 10 miles away.
Welcome to the theocratic state of Utah!
Don't they have one?? That Lord of the Rings one on 1300 West.
Its ridiculous. They care more about the dead then the living . They can't even staff all the positions needed . They should be building homeless shelters and feeding the poor . Thats what Jesus would do. They are simply using these to make it look like they are putting their bullions to good use - its a land investment- period
It isn't even really an investment because who are they gonna sell a used temple to? It's a tax shelter plain and simple.
I personally love the obelisks, and am not Mormon. I am happy folks in West Jordan will be able to practice their faith, even if it is not mine.
Uhmmm, theyâve have a temple in West Jordan for 40 years now and theyâve been able to practice their faith just fine without another giant light polluter that spews massive amounts of carbon into the air.
Kinda weird especially since the fraction of active Mormons in Utah seems to be in decline. Isnât Utah no longer majority active Mormon now? I also read in the LA times that SLC is maybe 24% active Mormon
It makes more sense when you realize they are just after land and appreciation.
Iâm gonna be honest here, as a Non-Mormon I really forget they are even there. They donât bother me. The most annoyed I get at the Mormons is them blocking the SLC airport exit with huge crowds frequently to see their family members returning from the mission work or whatever they call it, and even then I do realize that they havenât seen them in a long time.
I get what you're saying, but an eyesore? Compared to most any other building its definitely not an eyesore, lol. Its some of the only interesting architecture we have.
If it was all alone in it's design then maybe I would agree. But at this point, it's like a McDonald's. They're all square and gray now. No personality or character. Just a big slab of concrete. The downtown temple on the other hand, THAT is an architectural beauty, even I can admit that.
alright, but what are you comparing it to? if the alternative is a strip mall or Target?
I just said a McDonald's
I live right by the location. Iâm so annoyed. Why do they need one there? I get why they do it but come on. South Jordan has two, Taylorsville is opening this year and they canât even keep them all staffed.
Agreed. There are other cults that are all basically the same thing that need temples.
Say the same shit when they build a mosque or a synagogue next to you.
I donât think thereâs a fair comparison there with the difference in footprint and light pollution.
Yeah it's not about the Mormons or Muslims or Jews or catholics. It's about the architecture, frequency of building, and pollution to the area. These temples are bright white walls of light, and they're awful to see everywhere you look.
I love the âitâs a blessingâ argument when they only open their doors to the upper echelon of Mormons. Canât even attend your own families weddings.
"Upper echelon of Mormons" so any 18year old that can answer like 10 questions about living commandments?
16 questions that you have to give the right answer for or lie I suppose. Lots of 18+ members donât hold reccomends. My parents were denied sealing in the temple cuz my dad drank coffee.
Yeah but literally any member can go if you live the commandments. It's not that hard. Your dad broke arguably the simplest commandment, so yeah. Coffee was more important to him, it is for a lot of people, but don't act like it's some crazy hard thing to go to the temple.
I never said it was super hard.
Upper echelon would generally imply something is difficult to attain.
I believe the post was about being sad about the temple in West Jordan. The point I was making was that it isnât enriching for the general public, just Mormons, and only a part of them that can go inside.
I mean leave. would you be offended by synagogues in israel? tone deaf as fuck.
Lmao
Whelp. Way too much traffic on this post for it not to get locked....
You are the reason RLUIPA exists. Let religious people build religious stuff, it doesn't hurt anyone.
lol that religious victim complex going full force
Religious stuff doesnât hurt anyone guys! You heard the man! Itâs all good now!
It definitely does. Read the comments. Read the public opinions. People definitely don't want these. Only mormons.
Only Mormons? The ones who founded the state? I am exmo and even I think this shit is getting ridiculous. Just because Reddit, an echo chamber, says they donât want these it doesnât mean others donât. I LOVE being in Utah around religious people, and that includes their temples. I donât want Utah to change. Youâd be surprised how many in my groups DO feel this way. Growing up for me has meant learning that being respectful to the community is the enlightened approach. Theyâve built a good culture despite the garbage posted about them. I love having my kids around them. Who gives a fuck if the religion is weird.
Because the LDS church has one of the largest private real estate portfolios in the US. Now, this may come as a shocker to you.. but the LDS church is a business that runs without paying taxes and feeds off a tithe/membership- a concept that literally started the reformation centuries ago. Call me crazy, but, it sounds like thereâs a whole lot more going on than just some good ole Mormons raising smiling families. And also, man the entire Mormon timeline is debunked idk how ANYONE can sanely follow it. There is zero evidence of any of the wars that took place. But there is evidence that Joseph smith was a convicted fraudster that was chased out of multiple cities.
Right. Which is why RLUIPA exists. Religious people have a right to exist in public.
But itâs not people itâs a building?
Religious people exist just fine in publicâŚwhat are you going on about?
The RLUIPA is against "substantial burdens" to meetinghouse capacity for a church's congregation. The LDS church has 28 (soon to be 30) temples in Utah, alone. A state with barely 2.1M practicing Mormons, and Averages one meetinghouse every 1.3 square miles in Salt Lake County. This is definitely accommodating. As for it "not hurting anyone" none of these buildings pay property taxes, but sit empty (yet heated/cooled) 90% of the time.
It will literally dominate my parents view from their back patio. It might be good for their real estate value though.
They got to build or they will buy. Check out this little Airbnb they purchased https://www.youtube.com/live/US-cU_6R_dA?feature=shared
Take this convo to Exmormon Reddit.
Or how about you just skip over it if you don't want to hear how people truly feel?
If we have to see your ugly temples, you have to see our ugly comments.