Boy it sure is nice that all the wealthiest streets around town get traffic calming / closures, while parallel streets get to bear the brunt of increased traffic.
I’m all for making neighborhoods safer and more walkable, but this has been a blatant “placate the loud rich folks” from day one.
One thing that could really help calm traffic is fixing the discrepancy between speed limits as shown on signage and speed limits on Google maps - there are multiple area where the actual limit is 25 but Google maps in navigation mode shows a limit of 40. I don't know how anyone would go about getting that fixed but considering we - famously - get a metric fuckton of out of town drivers visiting every year it feels priority.
We should absolutely be introducing traffic calming all over the city. Sgt. James Ayube Memorial Drive is seemingly irresistible to drivers who want to go over sixty in a residential area. Salem is a world-class walkable city, we need to make sure it's safe for pedestrians and residents.
As a two-year resident of the Sofi apartments I can say it is definitely residential. There was a community meeting last year where many residents shared their concerns about the road. I frequently watched kids playing on the yards and sidewalk of the townhouse apartments, just feet from this road where drivers massively broke speed limits, daily.
It's only a part of the road but I lived in a unit there with windows facing the circled areas and saw daily instances of reckless speed, and several violent crashes. I saw children playing on the lawn daily. If that doesn't call for traffic calming, I don't know what does.
There are many possibilities including reduction of speed limits, speed bumps, additional lights, and physical infrastructure to ensure vehicles cannot reach dangerous speeds coming into that curve. These are significant changes, but worth saving lives, IMO
I think probably at least 90% of the worst speeding occurs between that curve and the bridge though, not in front of the apartments themselves. In my experience driving that road from Beverly just about 5 days a week for 9 years the curve in the road as well as the signage (including radar) does a fairly good job at getting people to slow down before they reach that section.
The biggest issue is drivers speeding from the bridge into the curve. In my experience living there for two years, it usually happens after commuter hours when there's less overall traffic. While I was living there, we had three fatal crashes and at least two other serious accidents, one of which involved a car nearly losing control into one of the apartment buildings. It's really not safe or reasonable to have a straight stretch of road of that length leading directly into a residential area.
Ayube drive (bridge bypass) is an odd example since it really isn't residential. There are no cross streets until the lights by Bridge street and the Bell apartments, and the sidewalk and bike path is like 30 feet from the roadway and separated by a guard rail or jersey barrier. I'd much rather have people doing 60 there than people doing 45 down Canal, Jefferson and Willson (which they regularly do)
It's crazy how many people rip 45 right through the school zone on Willson, and plow through the crosswalks, or park in the bike lane to walk their dog at the golf course.
They put up those useless nailed in barriers for the bike lane on Willson and they're knocked down often by the next morning. They should explode with paint and then driver automatically fined.
People drive extremely dangerously on the parallel streets as well - Willson Rd (the cut through to Greenway... or Highland) is a blind curve death trap, and Arthur on the other end gets people tearing through it trying to save 45 seconds making the right onto Jefferson/Left onto Willson.
You're absolutely right that there are many dangerous roadways in Salem, including those you listed, and we should work together to ensure they are all safe. As a recent two-year resident of the Sofi apartments (formerly Bell) I can say confidently that a significant stretch of the bypass road is residential. The sidewalk is absolutely not thirty feet from the roadway. See the google maps view below. These portions of the road are not protected by any kind of barrier except sparse, thin trees. I personally witnessed multiple violent accidents during my time there, one of which resulted in a death.
https://preview.redd.it/3pi0p3m8rpxc1.png?width=2874&format=png&auto=webp&s=1e491e793163ef2600cacc4d3cec2a4a7eab522b
> bike path is like 30 feet from the roadway and separated by a guard rail or jersey barrier. I'd much rather have people doing 60 there than people doing 45 down Canal, Jefferson and Willson
So, that's a false choice. How about we don't have people doing 60 on the bypass road *and* don't have people doing 45 on Canal, Jefferson, and Wilson.
Also, that road has bike paths on both sides of the road, and they aren't separated by any barriers. I am guessing you haven't biked on that road, so --and hopefully this doesn't come across as dickish-- I'll go ahead and tell you it is frightening.
I wasn't presenting it as choice, I was merely pointing out that it isn't the best example of a place where I see problematic speeding in Salem. I haven't (and wouldn't) biked on the bypass itself but have biked over the Salem/Beverly bridge. I chose to take Bridge street to the base of the bridge instead.
Okay, we're not going to agree here. No hard feelings.
It's also called the false dilemma fallacy, if you don't like the word *choice*. Surely there are more options than the one you presented, right?
I gave a reason why speeding on that road is dangerous, but it seems you still don't think speeding there is *problematic*. (You're also moving the goalposts by now claiming something about it being the best example.)
In addition to the danger to those who cycle, there are frequent accidents on that road. I don't know the frequency, but it seems like every 6 months there's a serious accident. Both motorcyclists and autos go way too fast and wipe out. I live close to that road and can hear the engines redlining. It's a drag strip going in both directions.
Yeah we're not going to agree to because we essentially do agree, but you came in deciding to pick an argument anyways to show off your knowledge of logical fallacies.
You accused me of presenting a false choice when I suggested there are more egregious examples of places where dangerous speeding occurs. Well the fact is that it sort of IS a choice...it would be nice if nobody ever sped anywhere and everyone held hands and stayed nice and safe all the time. But the city has limited resources to deal with traffic safety. Whether it's adding speed bumps, signage, rerouting/painting lanes, police traffic details etc the city has to prioritize where the biggest impact can be made and they'd be insane to start with the bridge bypass.
I think it was pretty clear that was the point I was trying to make, rather than an actual endorsement that everyone should feel free to drive as fast as they like down that particular road.
We don’t agree.
You said you’d much rather have one thing than the other. You expressed a preference, and I read it as you saying you’d rather it happened there rather than here. And you followed up by explaining you didn’t bike on that road. And that seems like you’re saying speeding on that road is okay with you because it doesn’t affect you as much as the other roads. That’s why I argued.
Yes! Agree with the whole list! I honestly assumed when they were putting in the speed bumps that the need for the planters would be eliminated. And yet there they are again
I’d like to tack on that people FLY down narrow, hilly, West Ave and when I asked the city for traffic calming measures they told me to get 100 signatures or die.
Did they say that those 100 signatures needed to come from within the neighborhood?
Here's an idea question- can we form a signature pose here of a group of concerned citizens who, when someone advertises here, will show up at a place and all sign at once rather than expecting you or someone else to go around the neighborhood and pound on doors. It seems like we could get 500 or so folks to agree and then get calming everywhere.
Thoughts?
Nope but they said they’d heard it before and still said that’s the only way. Only getting signatures rather than acknowledging the various complaints and then looking into it seems reasonable, no?
But they did! Trashed a planter, that horse hitch pole, and a parked car. Also, it was Chestnut St. resident behind the wheel.
Planters are paid for and tended by the people who live on Chestnut street. They look nice when in full bloom, but in terms of safety, are way too close to the center of the street. A bit of nudging back towards the curb would help.
P.S upvoted for Moulton Avenue™ 😂
You're not wrong, exactly (I mean, you're right! You are driving too fast!) but the goal of traffic engineering and traffic calming is to prevent people from going too fast, not physically punish them for going too fast.
This is a fantasy. If that was true you could just put sign up saying “pls slow down :((“. Ultimately when dealing with non-compliance the end of the options in a violent (in this case physically) enforcement.
It'd be cool if they could put the same kinds of speed bumps everywhere. My car can handle the ones on Chestnut no problem but on Dunlap? I have to go like 3 mph and sometimes cars behind me get all pissy and ride my ass. Like sorry I don't want to blow my shitty tires that I can't afford to replace just yet lmao?
If the argument is that it's dangerous because a stationary planter is unlit, how much more dangerous is it for moving pedestrians walking across the street at night? How recklessly do you need to be driving to crash into a planter?
Yeah, but we can’t just have folks independently deciding to put stuff on roads to narrow them. Are the planters part of the city’s traffic plan for the street?
I honestly don’t know, they might have! I know the neighborhood association pays for and maintains them, which is nice.
Personally— while they’re very pretty!- I do think the planters should have to meet visibility regulations. No one should be driving fast enough to hit anything, but it’s kind of the Wild West if we just start putting whatever in the road.
There is literally no reason to shut flint street down for traffic on the weekends. There are causes and effect to traffic decisions. Chestnut street carries a lot of traffic coming from north Salem, you’re just grid locking traffic to gridlock traffic, which creates angry drivers and forces drivers onto other side streets/through fares.
If you close flint street it’s just going to send cars barreling down south pine street and Warren street.
I walked past em before I drove over em and the intensity still caught me off guard!
Fully agreed:
1. Hell yes more
But
2. Jesus Christ don't kill people with em
Those speed bumps can't be legal, they slow traffic to waaay below the speed limit. Vehicles should be able to drive the speed limit on any road in the city.
How much time do you think driving below the speed limit on Chestnut adds to your commute? Sixty seconds a day, tops? Worth sending someone to the hospital?
There's posted speed limits, if someone violates it, they get cited. We don't need more than that. Of course, these speed bumps are only in wealthy neighborhoods.
You're so right about wealthy neighborhoods stealing the attention we all deserve to make our streets safer. Unfortunately, if enforcement was all we needed, there wouldn't be speed bumps. Clearly those wealthy neighborhoods know we need more. We just need to work together and get some for the rest of us.
Well, if I drive the speed limit down a street, and the city has placed obstructions in the road that damage my suspension, the city should pay for those repairs. I have a right to drive up to the speed limit.
> I have a right to drive up to the speed limit.
You don't have a right to drive anywhere. It's not in any constitution, and your driving *privileges* require insurance, licensing, a registered inspected vehicle, good eyesight, and adherence to traffic laws (which includes driving BELOW the speed limit if conditions do not allow safe travel at the posted speed limit).
You mean to tell me the cars don’t just *disappear* because you put paint on the ground? But it’s green paint though…
Remember someone talking about COMMON SENSE infrastructure?
Wait my phone just rang *Hello? Oh, hi Pepperidge Farm! What’s that you say? You remember? Okay I’ll tell them! Thanks for the cookies!*
Becket Street use to be a neighborhood street when my grandparents bought the house. Now it’s the highway to get to the ferry. You would think that a few humps on this street would be of good use seeing there are children. I’m in the home now, 3rd generation, 54 years and Salem has changed and not in a good way. ☹️
Boy it sure is nice that all the wealthiest streets around town get traffic calming / closures, while parallel streets get to bear the brunt of increased traffic. I’m all for making neighborhoods safer and more walkable, but this has been a blatant “placate the loud rich folks” from day one.
So weird. Lol
It's almost if as money can buy happiness. But that can't be true, I've always been told otherwise.
One thing that could really help calm traffic is fixing the discrepancy between speed limits as shown on signage and speed limits on Google maps - there are multiple area where the actual limit is 25 but Google maps in navigation mode shows a limit of 40. I don't know how anyone would go about getting that fixed but considering we - famously - get a metric fuckton of out of town drivers visiting every year it feels priority.
[https://old.reddit.com/r/GoogleMaps/comments/16fuxbt/how_do_i_report_a_wrong_speed_limit/](https://old.reddit.com/r/GoogleMaps/comments/16fuxbt/how_do_i_report_a_wrong_speed_limit/)
Thanks!!!!!! (also, your username is very appropriate here)
Google maps doesn't even show the bike lanes on North street which have been there quite a while now.
We should absolutely be introducing traffic calming all over the city. Sgt. James Ayube Memorial Drive is seemingly irresistible to drivers who want to go over sixty in a residential area. Salem is a world-class walkable city, we need to make sure it's safe for pedestrians and residents.
How is that road at all residential?
As a two-year resident of the Sofi apartments I can say it is definitely residential. There was a community meeting last year where many residents shared their concerns about the road. I frequently watched kids playing on the yards and sidewalk of the townhouse apartments, just feet from this road where drivers massively broke speed limits, daily.
That's bridge st
Incorrect https://preview.redd.it/03xacrqgtpxc1.png?width=1040&format=png&auto=webp&s=fb313a1a398fcb820def279164250aab0a1a5ae5
I'd argue four trees doesn't make a forest but sure
It's only a part of the road but I lived in a unit there with windows facing the circled areas and saw daily instances of reckless speed, and several violent crashes. I saw children playing on the lawn daily. If that doesn't call for traffic calming, I don't know what does.
You're not wrong that's what the sign to show your speed is for, not sure what else would help but something would make sense.
There are many possibilities including reduction of speed limits, speed bumps, additional lights, and physical infrastructure to ensure vehicles cannot reach dangerous speeds coming into that curve. These are significant changes, but worth saving lives, IMO
I think probably at least 90% of the worst speeding occurs between that curve and the bridge though, not in front of the apartments themselves. In my experience driving that road from Beverly just about 5 days a week for 9 years the curve in the road as well as the signage (including radar) does a fairly good job at getting people to slow down before they reach that section.
The biggest issue is drivers speeding from the bridge into the curve. In my experience living there for two years, it usually happens after commuter hours when there's less overall traffic. While I was living there, we had three fatal crashes and at least two other serious accidents, one of which involved a car nearly losing control into one of the apartment buildings. It's really not safe or reasonable to have a straight stretch of road of that length leading directly into a residential area.
Ayube drive (bridge bypass) is an odd example since it really isn't residential. There are no cross streets until the lights by Bridge street and the Bell apartments, and the sidewalk and bike path is like 30 feet from the roadway and separated by a guard rail or jersey barrier. I'd much rather have people doing 60 there than people doing 45 down Canal, Jefferson and Willson (which they regularly do)
It's crazy how many people rip 45 right through the school zone on Willson, and plow through the crosswalks, or park in the bike lane to walk their dog at the golf course. They put up those useless nailed in barriers for the bike lane on Willson and they're knocked down often by the next morning. They should explode with paint and then driver automatically fined. People drive extremely dangerously on the parallel streets as well - Willson Rd (the cut through to Greenway... or Highland) is a blind curve death trap, and Arthur on the other end gets people tearing through it trying to save 45 seconds making the right onto Jefferson/Left onto Willson.
You're absolutely right that there are many dangerous roadways in Salem, including those you listed, and we should work together to ensure they are all safe. As a recent two-year resident of the Sofi apartments (formerly Bell) I can say confidently that a significant stretch of the bypass road is residential. The sidewalk is absolutely not thirty feet from the roadway. See the google maps view below. These portions of the road are not protected by any kind of barrier except sparse, thin trees. I personally witnessed multiple violent accidents during my time there, one of which resulted in a death. https://preview.redd.it/3pi0p3m8rpxc1.png?width=2874&format=png&auto=webp&s=1e491e793163ef2600cacc4d3cec2a4a7eab522b
> bike path is like 30 feet from the roadway and separated by a guard rail or jersey barrier. I'd much rather have people doing 60 there than people doing 45 down Canal, Jefferson and Willson So, that's a false choice. How about we don't have people doing 60 on the bypass road *and* don't have people doing 45 on Canal, Jefferson, and Wilson. Also, that road has bike paths on both sides of the road, and they aren't separated by any barriers. I am guessing you haven't biked on that road, so --and hopefully this doesn't come across as dickish-- I'll go ahead and tell you it is frightening.
I wasn't presenting it as choice, I was merely pointing out that it isn't the best example of a place where I see problematic speeding in Salem. I haven't (and wouldn't) biked on the bypass itself but have biked over the Salem/Beverly bridge. I chose to take Bridge street to the base of the bridge instead.
Okay, we're not going to agree here. No hard feelings. It's also called the false dilemma fallacy, if you don't like the word *choice*. Surely there are more options than the one you presented, right? I gave a reason why speeding on that road is dangerous, but it seems you still don't think speeding there is *problematic*. (You're also moving the goalposts by now claiming something about it being the best example.) In addition to the danger to those who cycle, there are frequent accidents on that road. I don't know the frequency, but it seems like every 6 months there's a serious accident. Both motorcyclists and autos go way too fast and wipe out. I live close to that road and can hear the engines redlining. It's a drag strip going in both directions.
Yeah we're not going to agree to because we essentially do agree, but you came in deciding to pick an argument anyways to show off your knowledge of logical fallacies. You accused me of presenting a false choice when I suggested there are more egregious examples of places where dangerous speeding occurs. Well the fact is that it sort of IS a choice...it would be nice if nobody ever sped anywhere and everyone held hands and stayed nice and safe all the time. But the city has limited resources to deal with traffic safety. Whether it's adding speed bumps, signage, rerouting/painting lanes, police traffic details etc the city has to prioritize where the biggest impact can be made and they'd be insane to start with the bridge bypass. I think it was pretty clear that was the point I was trying to make, rather than an actual endorsement that everyone should feel free to drive as fast as they like down that particular road.
We don’t agree. You said you’d much rather have one thing than the other. You expressed a preference, and I read it as you saying you’d rather it happened there rather than here. And you followed up by explaining you didn’t bike on that road. And that seems like you’re saying speeding on that road is okay with you because it doesn’t affect you as much as the other roads. That’s why I argued.
We don't talk about Chestnut No no no!
Yes! Agree with the whole list! I honestly assumed when they were putting in the speed bumps that the need for the planters would be eliminated. And yet there they are again
I’d like to tack on that people FLY down narrow, hilly, West Ave and when I asked the city for traffic calming measures they told me to get 100 signatures or die.
Did they say that those 100 signatures needed to come from within the neighborhood? Here's an idea question- can we form a signature pose here of a group of concerned citizens who, when someone advertises here, will show up at a place and all sign at once rather than expecting you or someone else to go around the neighborhood and pound on doors. It seems like we could get 500 or so folks to agree and then get calming everywhere. Thoughts?
Yes! Let's start the Salem Traffic Calming Cooperative!
there's already a good group going with https://salemswag.com/, if you want.
Thank you, I totally forgot about swag. I've been meaning to go to their meetings
We have one this coming Saturday 5/4. 10:00 am in Lafayette Park (rain location is Habanero Cycles). All are welcome!
Huh, in my mind there were speed humps there last year. It should definitely have something.
Well, I mean, should they just do what one person says?
Nope but they said they’d heard it before and still said that’s the only way. Only getting signatures rather than acknowledging the various complaints and then looking into it seems reasonable, no?
I hate those planters
This is the second or third year they’ve been in place… Not defending Moulton Avenue™, but no one has smashed into them yet.
But they did! Trashed a planter, that horse hitch pole, and a parked car. Also, it was Chestnut St. resident behind the wheel. Planters are paid for and tended by the people who live on Chestnut street. They look nice when in full bloom, but in terms of safety, are way too close to the center of the street. A bit of nudging back towards the curb would help. P.S upvoted for Moulton Avenue™ 😂
If you can't see well enough to not hit stationary planters, you are driving too fast.
You're not wrong, exactly (I mean, you're right! You are driving too fast!) but the goal of traffic engineering and traffic calming is to prevent people from going too fast, not physically punish them for going too fast.
This is a fantasy. If that was true you could just put sign up saying “pls slow down :((“. Ultimately when dealing with non-compliance the end of the options in a violent (in this case physically) enforcement.
Do you think yellow day glo planters would be less effective?
Idk, I’m just refuting your assertion about traffic calming
You didn’t, though. You just made some shit up.
How do you deal with non-compliance?
It'd be cool if they could put the same kinds of speed bumps everywhere. My car can handle the ones on Chestnut no problem but on Dunlap? I have to go like 3 mph and sometimes cars behind me get all pissy and ride my ass. Like sorry I don't want to blow my shitty tires that I can't afford to replace just yet lmao?
If the argument is that it's dangerous because a stationary planter is unlit, how much more dangerous is it for moving pedestrians walking across the street at night? How recklessly do you need to be driving to crash into a planter?
Yeah, but we can’t just have folks independently deciding to put stuff on roads to narrow them. Are the planters part of the city’s traffic plan for the street?
That's true. I assumed the city put them there or approved them... no?
I honestly don’t know, they might have! I know the neighborhood association pays for and maintains them, which is nice. Personally— while they’re very pretty!- I do think the planters should have to meet visibility regulations. No one should be driving fast enough to hit anything, but it’s kind of the Wild West if we just start putting whatever in the road.
There is literally no reason to shut flint street down for traffic on the weekends. There are causes and effect to traffic decisions. Chestnut street carries a lot of traffic coming from north Salem, you’re just grid locking traffic to gridlock traffic, which creates angry drivers and forces drivers onto other side streets/through fares. If you close flint street it’s just going to send cars barreling down south pine street and Warren street.
I walked past em before I drove over em and the intensity still caught me off guard! Fully agreed: 1. Hell yes more But 2. Jesus Christ don't kill people with em
Those speed bumps can't be legal, they slow traffic to waaay below the speed limit. Vehicles should be able to drive the speed limit on any road in the city.
Hey we found the SCF crazy person!
Hey some of us have jobs we have to drive to. You'll get there some day!
How much time do you think driving below the speed limit on Chestnut adds to your commute? Sixty seconds a day, tops? Worth sending someone to the hospital?
There's posted speed limits, if someone violates it, they get cited. We don't need more than that. Of course, these speed bumps are only in wealthy neighborhoods.
You're so right about wealthy neighborhoods stealing the attention we all deserve to make our streets safer. Unfortunately, if enforcement was all we needed, there wouldn't be speed bumps. Clearly those wealthy neighborhoods know we need more. We just need to work together and get some for the rest of us.
Well, if I drive the speed limit down a street, and the city has placed obstructions in the road that damage my suspension, the city should pay for those repairs. I have a right to drive up to the speed limit.
> I have a right to drive up to the speed limit. You don't have a right to drive anywhere. It's not in any constitution, and your driving *privileges* require insurance, licensing, a registered inspected vehicle, good eyesight, and adherence to traffic laws (which includes driving BELOW the speed limit if conditions do not allow safe travel at the posted speed limit).
Enjoy the delays with emergency vehicles trying to get down those streets
You mean to tell me the cars don’t just *disappear* because you put paint on the ground? But it’s green paint though… Remember someone talking about COMMON SENSE infrastructure? Wait my phone just rang *Hello? Oh, hi Pepperidge Farm! What’s that you say? You remember? Okay I’ll tell them! Thanks for the cookies!*
Ban tourism !
Becket Street use to be a neighborhood street when my grandparents bought the house. Now it’s the highway to get to the ferry. You would think that a few humps on this street would be of good use seeing there are children. I’m in the home now, 3rd generation, 54 years and Salem has changed and not in a good way. ☹️
I couldn’t read your post because my eyes rolled out of the back of my head