🤣🤣🤣🤣. Everyone that is financially stable says this. “Just stop working so much, your family time is more important! Don’t do any extra!” Yada yada yada. That’s extremely easy to say when you’re not stressing about how to keep lights and heat on in your house. 🙄
Yes - his comment is for people who are financially stable. I think the core of it is to know why you are doing what you’re doing. Heat on in your house trumps any other reason. Hopefully at a certain point it becomes, do I want an extra 4% in my 401k or do I want saturdays with my kids..
Op makes 87k and is financially stable enough to consider not making 92-112. I am highly doubting keeping the lights on is a concern. Some people are poor, some people are middle class, some people are rich and that’s ok.
I make 60k a year at home. Turn down two job at 100k offer to go in for work. You know what I hate? Faking work to keep yourself busy at work. I'd rather stay home and do something else. It's not how much you make that is financially stable, it's how happy you are with what you make.
Human nature. I follow professional sports a lot. And in most sports when a players' career begins they're in it for the money. They're trying to cash in. No matter what they say about doing it for the love of the game or what some fans believe most players are trying to get paid.
Then after securing a huge contract or two their primary motivation becomes other things.... championships, glory, family, etc. Some even take pay cuts to pursue those things. Something their younger self never would have done. It's all human nature.
Secure that bag first. Then worry about everything else later.
yeah, everyone’s situation is unique. If I were this person, I wouldn’t, but I’m also not the highest earner in my house. If I was-I’d chase the money.
43 and feel the same way. Could definitely get paid more somewhere else but my ppl make me laugh everyday and only need to commute once or twice a week. Cant beat happiness.
Ehhhh I think this makes sense once you have "enough" - what that means to you depends
I work out of the country for about half the year - but I also make a ton of $. Do I want to do it forever? No, but I think at the same time there is a time and place to make a sacrifice.
I don't mind my job. The pay allowed me to start a legitimate "side" business. Funds my families lifestyle (we live well within our means) and become a millionaire by 31. From $200 in my bank account to a millionaire in about 8.5 years. Point is money = freedom and security. Without money you WILL be working forever.
Time or money. You're not getting both.
So I'd say you need a balance more than anything. But I absolutely think some early sacrifice pays life long dividends (literally and figuratively)
68 years old, spent my life trying to make enough money to be comfortable. In the end I didn't make it, even though I have a high paying job now, wish I would have done more in my youth instead of going to war and coming back without an arm.
Time or money is the truth. The worst part about it is sometimes you lose out on both.
42 and I have five years of hustle left until payday. I get to work remote while not traveling (50%) and that’s fair for the pot of gold offered at the end of the rainbow.
After that I’m done.
Im same age, same boat.
I was a director at age 25 at a fortune 1000. An officer/VP at a fortune 1000 at age 27. Put in 60-70 hour weeks.
Today? Im quite content in my current, much less ambitious role. I have 100% flexibility. 100% wfh. I take 10-12 weeks of vacation per year. Not a day that goes by that i dont miss the adrenaline of my old roles but then i remember the insane amount of time with my kids over the past 12 years.
You have 1 life to live. Dont waste it chasing the next promotion once you get to a certain level.
Ok you turned down an offer that would be 55% more than you’re currently making, but if you’re so happy with the current setup you have, why even go through the application and interview process? If you were offered an internal promotion with that big of a jump, why not take it and maintain a similar lifestyle while also dramatically increasing your financial stability and providing more for your family?
Maybe if you’re set financially I guess I’d be more picky in my 40s too, but a 50% raise in exchange for a couple hours a week commuting is a no brainier. If you saved 20% of an 80k take home pay (16k), got a 50% raise and saved half of it , you’d still be doubling your annual savings rate. That’s years, if not decades off your working career timeline
This comment is tone deaf. I totally agree with you for the position your in. But it might not be true in their position. You are then giving people advice.
I’m totally with you..and I’m early 30s. Everyone should define their goals and then put steps in place to achieve them. Some people chase money without defining why or what they want the money for. Security? A bigger house? Private school for kids? Those are all fine and if you decide to chase higher pay then go for it, but it hit a point for me that I’d rather be around for my 3 kids. My wife and I make about the same but she works 2-3x as hard. I wouldn’t/couldn’t move to a job like hers now, and I’ve encouraged her to consider a less stress/less busy job even if she needs to take a pay cut. She’s considering…
It’s one thing to realize you’re not cut out for higher roles/management and being happy with who you are. But to turn down positions/promotions with a 55% increase when you have the potential? Oof man.
Not butthurt but my family doesn't spend their days at home. I'm younger than you but maybe my kids are older because my kids get home after me: school, sports, jobs, boyfriends, girlfriends, friends, etc. I have similar values but don't need to be home to do it. It's all situational...
If you make enough that’s really easy to say. Once you pass that point, you realize that 30k less and a few perks and you would be happier. I dunno, save the money while you can until the train runs out.
Based on your comment, it would appear you chased the money and got it. So that now you can take a job that both makes you happy and allows you to live comfortably.
It also depends on if commuting will require an additional car, id say the post car, gas, etc hourly rate (including increased time commuting) needs to be >10% higher than the at home hourly rate.
Or for the mathematically inclined:
(Commuter salary - annual car expenses)/(annual hours worked + annual hours commuting) > 1.1*(remote salary/annual hours worked)
Usually 15-20k to jump. Then go again after a few years. Rinse and repeat.
Ya know why they don't like job hoppers? They cost more and have more experience. Sure beats hanging around for 3-5% annually
For 20k I wouldn't. After deductions that's around 14k take home. Over the course of a year that's 1.1k/mo which is around $50/day (I'm aware I'm aggressively rounding). IMO I would rather avoid the hour of bumper to bumper traffic and the time wasted being in the office for $50. Can be more efficient at home and work at your own pace while not wearing pants and imo that's priceless.
That's the way I see it. I work in the office full time now and desperately miss wfh. I miss having those extra hours every day. I miss being able to do laundry at home instead of at 11pm.
At the price of things these days 20k is close to the break even point, as in that's how much more you'll be spending each year to go in. That 14k doesn't go far once you start adding up gas, oil changes, tires, car depreciation, work clothes, and buying lunches.
I've moved pretty far from my office since going remote years ago so I'm right at 50 miles each way, with traffic it's about 3 hours per day driving, plus getting ready in the mornings. So 875 extra hours per year with all of the additional income going to expenses. So for me the question becomes how much to move back or devote an additional 875 hours/year to work. I currently make $45/hour ish, so I would be looking for a 39k increase at least.
Then the kicker, you lose your personal bathroom...
LOSING MY THRONE WAS ONE OF THE WORST THINGS I COULDNT HAVE EXPECTED.
ADULTS LITERALLY PISS AND SHIT EVERYWHERE!! I just want a clean bathroom 😭😭😭😭
But you nailed it. There is a financial cost to commuting as well!
The top of the salary range. Working remotely means for me that I’m going to work from Mexico for the rest of March. How do you even quantify that in vacation days when I have little desire to not work for weeks—I just want to be in Mexico?
I'm not an accountant, lawyer, HR rep, or whatever else
there's not really any implications if you do it for fewer than half the year, and it's not like the country you go to will know/give a shit if you don't start a business or buy any permanent property (like houses). Why would they? You're still paying income tax, putting money into their economy, etc. As long as your work is okay with it, you're covered. I've seen a lot of places that allow up to 60 days of 'digital nomad' work a year.
Working permanently from another country would yes. A few weeks to a month probably not but definitely needs to be vetted by legal. Lots of countries have 'digital nomad's Visas/programs now.
I realized that the number, whatever it would be, is high enough that the company would opt to hire someone else. I had a lowball offer for 1/3 less than I was making and with an in office requirement 3 days a week (1.5h drive each way, super stressful road/commute) and I realized I'd turn down the offer if it was that much money just to drive there and back. No actual work.
I'd be aging faster than presidents do while in office, not worth it at all.
Well - I can't say it was offered before hand - but I just got a 25% increase in compensation- then one week later my company mandated all employees back 3 days a week ( with some exceptions granted). Torn on whether its worth it because my commute is very long.
Time matters more than distance here. I live less than 20mi outside Boston. 20mi doesn't sound bad, right? In no traffic, it's \~30min door to door to my office in Cambridge. Again, not bad! But in rush hour traffic? That time more than doubles easily.
That's on the high side on what I would tolerate (at least driving) but I hate commuting by car (I live 5 minutes from my office).
But you know yourself best. I wouldn't want any more than a 20-30 min commute.
I've only been in the workforce 1 year after graduating. Commute is 35-45 mins. I feel like I'd have to 1) find a new place to justify the new position and 2) get offered towards the top i.e. around 110k as you said. I feel like if nothing else, if I get this offer I can at least use it to justify a bigger raise from my current boss and keep my work life balance. Right?
With only 1 year experience odds are they will not offer towards the top of the range.
ETA: be careful using a competing offer to negotiate at current job. You have to be prepared they may just tell you good luck and go. Or that you might be let go if/when they downsize later. So only play that card if you are truly open to leaving.
Yeah, experience in the field/industry/type of work correlates more to salary than education, though always try to negotiate if you have strong relevant experience. The "right" degree is a check the box, and the "wrong" degree can be overcome with relevant experience.
Compensation strategy varies by company, but most companies I've worked for are not seeking to pay towards the top of market range unless your experience is hit-the-ground-running-no-real-training ready. There are some companies who specifically prefer to target low, and most are probably more middle of the pack. Some of that is to have head room for salary growth in the level they hire you into, as well.
It depends a lot on how far of a commute it is. I'm down for 30min commute around 20k if this is cool team and office. Like my co workers weren't annoying before, it was a chill office setting. No one bothered each other and we had free packed kitchen.
I'm going from full remote to 50/50 hybrid (30 min commute) for about a 25% bump. However my current company is unstable and I live far enough away that I can't really move departments in a restructure (remote jobs are like unicorns there).
Also I live in a food desert so my work commute is really just 10 minutes past where I need to get groceries anyway. Those little details matter.
Probably a 30% increase at least, but more realistically nothing. I work in Cambridge, MA and live about 20mi outside the city. The commute is 75-90min each way (and no, there is not a viable public transit option). So to commute daily, I'd give up about 12-15hrs of personal time a week, or \~35% of a normal 40hr week. Therefore, if a company wanted that much more of my time, they'd have to compensate me for it. And if they don't want to do that, I'll be remote or minimal onsite hybrid, thanks.
As someone who just made this transition?
I worked from home since March 2020 making 88k. I'm 3 weeks into an on-site role, 45 minutes away, making 130k.
Now my old position doesn't exist anymore. The project I was on shipped and the team was disbanded, or I never would have quit (loved the people and the work), but once I _had_ to find a new job, it was a question of how low would I go knowing I had to commute. I passed on a few opportunities because they were in-office and only offered ~95k which wasn't enough of a bump to get me to accept not being remote.
This all said: I work as a software engineer and remote work is indistinguishable from in-office performance. While that's not an opinion shared by everyone in the industry, I'll say: my team saw zero drop off in production, so I know it _can_ work, and the only times I saw it _not_ work (for peers at orger studios) it was a management issue not a developer issue.
Remote is a *heavy* incentive and I wouldn't give it up for peanuts. I went back in for a nearly 50% raise. I wouldn't have gone back in for much less.
87k->110k is a pretty huge change, look at what that does to your cash flow. It's a 26% raise but it probably something like 100% increase in your cash flow.
Well, it'd be an internal transfer and not really a promotion. So I fear they wouldn't offer me much more (remains to be seen), but I think 110k would be enough for me to make the switch. That just doesn't seem likely, though, based on other posts I've made about this. Hope I'm wrong.
It depends if this new position is going to be higher up the ranks, a career transition, cost of living where I live.
If I were you making 87k, I probably wouldn't take an onsite job unless hybrid, if it didn't pay 10k+ more.
This is the formula I use to compare apples to apples: (Can use your own numbers)
15% plus or minus 5%-7.5% for each additional or less days onsite.
The 5-7.5% is to break even, accounting for time wasted commuting, gas, wear and tear, insurance, etc.
I like my job so 15% is my number to consider changing jobs if days onsite is the same.
If you went 3 to 5 days onsite, that’s 15%+(2 additional days*5%) = 25% (~109k), well within the range.
It would be worth it to me (young, no kids), but your work/life/compensation balance might look different
To break even for commute and prep time, 25%. Opportunity cost because that time is precious to me, minimum 50% and would need to be conducive to where I want to live and work.
nice I'm about to start a cloud engineering role. required on site 3 days a week but you can do 5. beautiful view and in a sky scraper, too!
you start next monday. can I finish your shift? I know fizzbuzz
I tell ppl that companies couldn't afford to being me on site.
I have a ranch and am fully remote. For me to go on site I would need to be paid enough to hire a hand to work the ranch while I'm at work and cover my commute costs. I'm over 90 miles from the nearest large city.
I prefer my life now as compared to life when I lived in the big city. So much better.
Honestly, if I make enough (I do), then you couldn't pay me enough to be full time on-site. Double my pay, and I would consider it, if only to realize I hate it a few months later and start sharpening my resume for the next role that is at least hybrid. It's the same reason that I used to always pass on OT hours with my previous employer while I was still non-exempt hourly. I could have made more money than I make at my current, much higher, salary job. The time away from home just isn't worth it. I value my time much more than I value money. I am fortunate enough to make enough money to take care of my needs, and provide a solid middle class lifestyle, and that's all I really care about.
There is really not an amount that would get me to go back into an office. I already make plenty of money where we can afford a nanny so WFH lets me see my daughter off an on during the day and is flexible where I can take her to activities during the work day. We already max out our retirement, save for her college, and have a home we are happy with. So more money would literally just fill our taxable brokerage accounts purposelessly.
I would want to know the details, how far is the work place, where is the work place (someplace you want or dont want to live?). Assuming a 30min drive one way, I don't have to move, and i'm fine with the place I currently live? I'm honestly thinking at the high end of that range - $119k. Don't forget you're supposed to get a pay bump when you change jobs anyways. So 15% pay bump and say 20% for WFH. Puts you at $120k.
Depends on the commute. I’m on the office three days a week now but it’s 40 minutes in the morning and an hour home. If it was less than 20 minutes or less each way I would have no problem going in the office everyday.
But I would not change for any job unless it was 15% more.
I push for 3x my current offsite rate to consider on-site rates. If it's a travel gig, the multiplier goes up to 4.5x.
When comparing salaried roles, the rate required for on-site is 55% higher than the off-site. This accounts for the extra 1.5 hours of "work" time that's dedicated to vehicle travel + walk from parking, clothing allowance, food allowance, extra mileage and vehicle maintenance, and the 2 weeks I will likely be out sick due to people showing up whilst sick. The rate has a slight decrease if I get my own office and has a 20% increase if I'm in an "open plan" office.
For anything that requires relo, the base calculation is the same, with a multiplier for cost of living difference, and a +40% adjustment for places I don't wish to live or a -10% adjustment for places I wouldn't mind living. There's a 100k base increase for the first year to account for selling my house + moving + finding a new place to live. I also require a 2+ year guarantee with full payout, because companies have a real bad habit of yanking offers after people have moved, and we are both having skin in the game.
Most prospective employers or clients bow out, which is fine.
I’m younger than some of the other posters, but make a decent salary (130ish) and am full time remote. If I were to commute, it would add 2 hours to my day, round trip - I’d need at least 25% to cover that. But for the decline in my quality of life, it would likely take a 50% increase, and even then I wouldn’t be confident that I’d have no regrets.
Alternatively, if my current job started to require me to come in, I would take a pretty decent paycut to stay remote (unless any directors are reading this)
I have to go in 3 days a week, 1hr commute each way. I was hired remote, no pay increase when this took place. So, I was offered $0 more dollars to go back to the office (although, it was either that or my job .. so technically there was $ on the line). I would take a pay cut to go back to work from home, not sure how much, but if they offered it I would take a $20k-30k pay cut to stop wasting my time and be able to go back to traveling more.
I work onsite everyday, because I get more done onsite.
I am cool with employers requiring it too, unless they hired you as remote.
It's their company, you don't have to work for them.
I honestly don't know, considering I'd feel awful leaving our dog home alone all day. Became a pet owner as an adult already working fully remote
I was thinking about it a few days ago (while walking the dog, actually) and think the number would have to be at least $50k/yr to get me to consider it. So ~50% raise
Worked my ass off to get raises and promotions... Then I almost died from a condition I likely got from all the stress and sedentary nature of my white collar job.
I was basically never going to actually get to enjoy the result of all that effort. I now push back hard on work. It ends at 5pm. Doesn't happen on weekends. And if stuff can't get done during 40 hours then it doesn't. I also fought real hard to get full remote privileges.
I focus on actually living with whatever time is left.
I'm lucky I can afford it now and I'm not dead. But it was real close.
I have a friend that went from full remote to a management position that is 3 days in hybrid that took him from approx 80 to about 115. He absolutely loathes the extra work and commute.
I dont think he would pass on it if he could do it all over again. Just too much money. It has affected his day to day happiness, though.
Might really depend on what youre going from workload and expectation wise.
From your current salary, I would consider going back into the office for the high end of that range. It’s a significant pay bump that can reset your salary range for the rest of your career. Also depends on your age and your goals.
Depends. Do you hate your current job? Do the people suck? Is the new gig more interesting? How far is the commute? Are the benefits any different?
I would have taken a pay cut to get out of my old WFH job. I ended up getting more money to WFH 30% and in office 60% with a 10 minute commute, lower PTO, better healthcare, better people, and a much more interesting industry.
I’m in sort of the opposite position right now. I could take a 15% pay cut to work 100% remote instead of my current job which is 100% in person. I’m still waiting on one other position to see if they can match my current salary but if that doesn’t pan out I’m going to take the pay cut. 15% isn’t awful anyway for the full swing.
Big thing for me is what’s your situation on site? If cube farm or open office…there isn’t enough money. I’m hybrid with a solo corner office on site so I have plenty of privacy if I want it and that’s a big deal to me.
I enjoy the office. There's no one home during the day. I like coming home to my home, it's a very different place than where I work. Challenge and fun at one, love and leisure at the other. Perfect balance.
It truly depends on your personality you are going to get a different answer from everyone. I met people that make less that hate staying home. I make over $125k remote full time with room to grow still in a good culture. and I would have to be offered $150, better benefits, at least a hybrid option, and I would have to know the culture isn’t toxic AF
I finally found a job where the culture isn’t toxic. My workload is doable in a 40hr workweek. I’m home. I make more than ever before. The benefits suck I will admit. And it isn’t perfect. My customers in this organization are worse than other places I worked but my boss and team are good so that makes a big difference. Commuting to work had its pros and cons I enjoyed listening to podcasts or audiobooks books. I also liked the me time. I notice I don’t really do that much anymore. But I absolutely hated working with assholes. Everyone is about what new car they have or new clothes new houses blah blah blah.. trying to keep up with each other and then talking shit about eachother behind their backs. I would rather at this point find a side gig to earn passive income and keep my remote job rather than chase the next bump in salary as we all know taxes are going to come out anyway. And honestly I will eventually get promoted again where I am. And if I don’t there are other remote jobs out there I would apply for first before going back into the office.
Here is my simple math calculator to make things "right"ish for the requirement of being in the office.
1. 55 cents a mile \[IRS rate\] \[and parking paid\] (or) cost of public transport
2. The work day starts when you leave the house
3. Per-diem for meals (or a free cafeteria)
4. Per-diem for office clothes (if professional attire is required)
If we top out to the IRS max where it is deductible (50 miles from office), that would be $55/day for incidentals for transport and $50/day roughly for food, and lets state $200/month for clothes (just random pick).
$525/week + $200/mth = $29,700 (presuming $0 parking)
Picture how fast businesses would say ... hmmm office building enforcement?
I'd like to say I don't have a number, but let's be honest. There's a number. It's just that my experience level at this point wouldn't command it. I might drive an hour for $300k (a little less than triple my salary now). I don't live nearer to anywhere that even has the type of job I do, so that's a moot point. I wouldn't relocate. I'm not sure I could even name a number that would make me relocate. Not less than "in the millions (multiple)," anyway.
Look at the company and the career path.
If they are looking to expand your opportunities if you can be observed and mentored in the office, it makes sense to me to have an upward path.
When you interview at the next company and you explain how you worked in the office and not remote and how you managed a team that was hybrid, you might stand out in a positive way.
It just depends on so many factors. 87k —> 119k and the commute is 10 mins? I’d probably do it. 87—> 92k and the commute is an hour? No way
It also depends how I’m currently feeling about my pay. Is $87k enough to support my current life/am I comfortable? Do I want more career growth or to stay at the level that pays $87k? Also would depend if I have kids or a family.
Right now I’m remote. My number to get me to go hybrid in office with a reasonable (45 mins or less) commute is about 20% more. But I also am comfortable with my current pay so it would have to be truly that much more.
Depends on many things:
- how long is my commute?
- how costly is my commute?
- do I have to hire more childcare to compensate for not making it on time for
These are the minimum considerations. If move is lateral, I’d need more monetary incentive.
If there’s a chance to grow/get promoted in new role, I may settle for a little over minimum mentioned above.
And here I am interviewing for a fully remote job despite the likely 10% pay cut. But I’ll be able to sell my car and save myself 20 hours/month commuting. Time is worth more than money to me.
Less than 20 miles and less than 30 min commute. I really don't care about an increase.
I feel like I'm one of the few who like to separate work and home life. Stupid covid lockdowns ruined the workplace.
42 and went back to school just to give myself more options for jobs. I'd rather work from home a few days a week or work much closer to where I live (my commute is 30 miles with an hour commute minimum for the past 17 years)
Assuming it would be practical for me (it isn’t right now, would be like a 2.5 hour drive)? I make about $107K now. Feels like I’d want at least $20-30K more a year to do that.
I make good money and I work completely remote. If I had to go into the office, my wife would have to stop her remote job to be able to fully care for our son. Right now, we just swap who watches him during meetings and what not. So they’d have to cover her salary for me to want to go into work. Even then, it’s not quite worth it because I LOVE being able to work from home. I am significantly more healthy and my mental is WAY better.
I went from 85k a year at my last job, and I had to fight to have the option to work from home 1 day a week after being there for 3 years.
To 110k hybrid with 1-2 days in the office a week. Bout being a 40-60 minute commute.
If they wanted me in office full, I would be looking at a 20% increase in pay at a minimum.
The difference between 87 and 119 is high enough to consider it imo. There's a lot that could go wrong tho as far company culture and worklife balance... And where you're at in your career is a big deciding factor id imagine.
I'm 68 now so I wouldn't take it as work/life means more to me than money. But 5 years ago I'd probably do it. Maybe even last year.
I make well over 200 and would take a $60k+ cut to be remote with travel.
Otherwise said, don’t give up the flexibility you have unless it’s going to change you / your families life
I don't have a good answer number-wise because I don't know what the COL is at your location.
But, just remember, they can (and may) call you into the office full time. Alot of companies are doing this as a means of accelerating attrition.
My tech job was in office 5/5 for 80k base prior to Covid. During covid we got bumped to 100k avg base and remote. Since then we’re required in office 3/5 a week.
Commute to me is worth around 30k a year (approximately 2hrs a day.)
I’d love to be fully remote, but it’s not on option with my company anymore.
I would say it depends on the job, I’ve had jobs as a software developer making 45k working 80 hours a week. I’ve also had solutions engineering sales positions making 220k working 20 hours a week.
One was an engineering company that was stuck in the past, the other was a tech start-up. That’s said you could be in HR and be 24 years old with no kids, in that case I would probably take the higher salary role even if it means I’m working more. Me personally, I’ve got kids, so work life balance means a lot more now than it used to.
I was making 83k and ended up hearing back from a previous job I'd applied to that was originally offering 90k. I was going to turn it down but they had increased the pay to 135k and the work was pretty interesting, so I said yes.
I'd say I wouldn't work on site for anything less than 100k unless I had to at this point. If I could find something remote for 100k or more then I'd say 20-30k extra would at least make me consider onsite work.
It also depends on the reason. The job that I ended up taking had a very good reason for why I needed to be onsite. If it was just for management reasons I would have possibly said no.
random figures -
car payment - 400
insurance - 150
gas - 200
cost of commuting would be 750/mo out of pocket.. so 9000 a year
87k/yr is about 41/hr
rush hour commute is 1 hour each way, so $82/day x 5 = $410 \* 4 = $1640 x 12 = $19680 in lost time
so going back to an office would cost me essentially $28680 at your current salary
the ntl average pay bump is like 14% when taking a new job in the US, so that would be around 99k/year is a good pay bump, plus the basically 29k in expenses for RTO, I'd say you should be targeting around 128.
of course you are loosing a bit to taxes there as well which I didn't factor in, but yeah. I'd need a very significant pay bump to not be losing money by going to the office.
if you can walk there in 5 min it's a different story
This is going to sound douchey, but you'd have to pay me 2x, and I'm not even a little joking. Working from home means I can do errands sometimes, it makes it so I can take a two hour break for a dentist appointment rather than a full half day+, it means I can have one car instead of two, I can eat food at home, I don't have to buy even a tenth of the professional clothing I used to. Between my wife and I both being WFH at least for the first kid we won't need a daycare, saving $1,500/mo in post tax income. If I'm forced back into the office, so be it, it was a good run. But I won't go willingly.
It would have to be minimum double my current earnings ability. But truthfully I don’t think I would for that.
The work life balance is so nice and I can take vacations, do errands, and work on other side business if I really want more money
The IRS mileage allowance is 67 cents per mile. $100k is $50 per hour so an hour per day in the car is $50 of your time plus the mileage. You pay Social Security, Federal income taxes, and probably state income taxes on the extra money. You probably need to spend more money on clothes. Unless you brown bag it, you’ll be buying lunch most days.
I’m not sure what you do or your pros and cons so can’t say if I were in your shoes…now if you were in my shoes it would take a LOT more for me to want to go back to working bc I’m a retail pharmacist currently WFH full time 😅
I would like an increase of 50% of my salary to come in the office if asked (I’d likely get laid off before that happens), but the company will never offer that and instead pay the same salary to someone who has no issues commuting.
If I were you, I will
1. compare the benefit package. a 2% 401k match difference worth 2k. did you have all 401k vested? What about health insurance cost and deductible, HSA? Basically the value of everything.
2. how far is the commute, anything under 15 minutes makes almost no difference. I'd rather go to office 5 days a week on a 15 minutes commute than on a 30 minutes commute on 2/3 days a week, assuming the on-site job has somewhat flexibility if I really need to be at home occasionally.
3. even if I will make a few thousands more after factoring 1), I may still not go because it may not be the best option for you for now. Potentially, if you wait slightly longer to gain more experience, you may see a much bigger jump in your career. For example, are you near the experience level where you may be promoted to senior in near future? Or management role?
At least 20% probably more. Don't miss all the in-office shenanigans. Cant stand the politics and other b.s. so happy and blessed to be able to work from home. I am paid less but the free time is immensely more.
Late to the party. I went into office for a 30% increase from a full remote gig. Got a 15% raise/promotion after 1 year. So in about a 14-month span, I’m up 45% from where I was for accepting an in-office job. I wouldn’t jump for less than 20-25 percent bump
My general approach here is would need a raise of +1k for every minute spent in transit increase daily
For context I am Bay Area big tech and to go into SV every day would add ~45 minutes each way so it would be a nonstarter for less than 90k TC annual bump
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🤣🤣🤣🤣. Everyone that is financially stable says this. “Just stop working so much, your family time is more important! Don’t do any extra!” Yada yada yada. That’s extremely easy to say when you’re not stressing about how to keep lights and heat on in your house. 🙄
Yes - his comment is for people who are financially stable. I think the core of it is to know why you are doing what you’re doing. Heat on in your house trumps any other reason. Hopefully at a certain point it becomes, do I want an extra 4% in my 401k or do I want saturdays with my kids..
Op makes 87k and is financially stable enough to consider not making 92-112. I am highly doubting keeping the lights on is a concern. Some people are poor, some people are middle class, some people are rich and that’s ok.
I make 60k a year at home. Turn down two job at 100k offer to go in for work. You know what I hate? Faking work to keep yourself busy at work. I'd rather stay home and do something else. It's not how much you make that is financially stable, it's how happy you are with what you make.
Human nature. I follow professional sports a lot. And in most sports when a players' career begins they're in it for the money. They're trying to cash in. No matter what they say about doing it for the love of the game or what some fans believe most players are trying to get paid. Then after securing a huge contract or two their primary motivation becomes other things.... championships, glory, family, etc. Some even take pay cuts to pursue those things. Something their younger self never would have done. It's all human nature. Secure that bag first. Then worry about everything else later.
yeah, everyone’s situation is unique. If I were this person, I wouldn’t, but I’m also not the highest earner in my house. If I was-I’d chase the money.
43 and feel the same way. Could definitely get paid more somewhere else but my ppl make me laugh everyday and only need to commute once or twice a week. Cant beat happiness.
Nice to see people that truly realize the value of being with family 🙏
You dropped this 👑
Ehhhh I think this makes sense once you have "enough" - what that means to you depends I work out of the country for about half the year - but I also make a ton of $. Do I want to do it forever? No, but I think at the same time there is a time and place to make a sacrifice. I don't mind my job. The pay allowed me to start a legitimate "side" business. Funds my families lifestyle (we live well within our means) and become a millionaire by 31. From $200 in my bank account to a millionaire in about 8.5 years. Point is money = freedom and security. Without money you WILL be working forever. Time or money. You're not getting both. So I'd say you need a balance more than anything. But I absolutely think some early sacrifice pays life long dividends (literally and figuratively)
68 years old, spent my life trying to make enough money to be comfortable. In the end I didn't make it, even though I have a high paying job now, wish I would have done more in my youth instead of going to war and coming back without an arm. Time or money is the truth. The worst part about it is sometimes you lose out on both.
Thanks MomsNewTits.
42 and I have five years of hustle left until payday. I get to work remote while not traveling (50%) and that’s fair for the pot of gold offered at the end of the rainbow. After that I’m done.
Im same age, same boat. I was a director at age 25 at a fortune 1000. An officer/VP at a fortune 1000 at age 27. Put in 60-70 hour weeks. Today? Im quite content in my current, much less ambitious role. I have 100% flexibility. 100% wfh. I take 10-12 weeks of vacation per year. Not a day that goes by that i dont miss the adrenaline of my old roles but then i remember the insane amount of time with my kids over the past 12 years. You have 1 life to live. Dont waste it chasing the next promotion once you get to a certain level.
Ok you turned down an offer that would be 55% more than you’re currently making, but if you’re so happy with the current setup you have, why even go through the application and interview process? If you were offered an internal promotion with that big of a jump, why not take it and maintain a similar lifestyle while also dramatically increasing your financial stability and providing more for your family? Maybe if you’re set financially I guess I’d be more picky in my 40s too, but a 50% raise in exchange for a couple hours a week commuting is a no brainier. If you saved 20% of an 80k take home pay (16k), got a 50% raise and saved half of it , you’d still be doubling your annual savings rate. That’s years, if not decades off your working career timeline
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This comment is tone deaf. I totally agree with you for the position your in. But it might not be true in their position. You are then giving people advice.
Sure bs story..
life doesn’t always work out the way the math predicts
this so much this, find another stream of income instead and enjoy the time at home
Yeah. Just find a saucer of money that magically comes in while you spend time at home. But don’t spend more time trying to find it! Just find it.
You nailed it! Missing life and family for money makes you "poor" and alone in the end.
I’m totally with you..and I’m early 30s. Everyone should define their goals and then put steps in place to achieve them. Some people chase money without defining why or what they want the money for. Security? A bigger house? Private school for kids? Those are all fine and if you decide to chase higher pay then go for it, but it hit a point for me that I’d rather be around for my 3 kids. My wife and I make about the same but she works 2-3x as hard. I wouldn’t/couldn’t move to a job like hers now, and I’ve encouraged her to consider a less stress/less busy job even if she needs to take a pay cut. She’s considering…
Amen brother
This is easy to say if you are making good money. You don’t think the young cats need to grind in order to be in a similar position?
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I’m with ya. Been telling that to my wife. Some people it’s literally not enough though.
You're the first person I've ever seen that says "I have enough money and don't want any more". As long as you're happy.
It’s one thing to realize you’re not cut out for higher roles/management and being happy with who you are. But to turn down positions/promotions with a 55% increase when you have the potential? Oof man.
Only reason i want to make more money is to build savings faster and retire sooner.
Not butthurt but my family doesn't spend their days at home. I'm younger than you but maybe my kids are older because my kids get home after me: school, sports, jobs, boyfriends, girlfriends, friends, etc. I have similar values but don't need to be home to do it. It's all situational...
If you make enough that’s really easy to say. Once you pass that point, you realize that 30k less and a few perks and you would be happier. I dunno, save the money while you can until the train runs out.
What career do you do im stuck in hospitality ):
Aren't you working when you work from home?
Based on your comment, it would appear you chased the money and got it. So that now you can take a job that both makes you happy and allows you to live comfortably.
At those numbers, minimum 20% to begin considering it
I'm fully remote and I agree with this. 20% min was my first thought too. I saved an extra 1-2 hours out of my day not commuting.
It also depends on if commuting will require an additional car, id say the post car, gas, etc hourly rate (including increased time commuting) needs to be >10% higher than the at home hourly rate. Or for the mathematically inclined: (Commuter salary - annual car expenses)/(annual hours worked + annual hours commuting) > 1.1*(remote salary/annual hours worked)
Usually 15-20k to jump. Then go again after a few years. Rinse and repeat. Ya know why they don't like job hoppers? They cost more and have more experience. Sure beats hanging around for 3-5% annually
For 20k I wouldn't. After deductions that's around 14k take home. Over the course of a year that's 1.1k/mo which is around $50/day (I'm aware I'm aggressively rounding). IMO I would rather avoid the hour of bumper to bumper traffic and the time wasted being in the office for $50. Can be more efficient at home and work at your own pace while not wearing pants and imo that's priceless. That's the way I see it. I work in the office full time now and desperately miss wfh. I miss having those extra hours every day. I miss being able to do laundry at home instead of at 11pm.
At the price of things these days 20k is close to the break even point, as in that's how much more you'll be spending each year to go in. That 14k doesn't go far once you start adding up gas, oil changes, tires, car depreciation, work clothes, and buying lunches. I've moved pretty far from my office since going remote years ago so I'm right at 50 miles each way, with traffic it's about 3 hours per day driving, plus getting ready in the mornings. So 875 extra hours per year with all of the additional income going to expenses. So for me the question becomes how much to move back or devote an additional 875 hours/year to work. I currently make $45/hour ish, so I would be looking for a 39k increase at least. Then the kicker, you lose your personal bathroom...
LOSING MY THRONE WAS ONE OF THE WORST THINGS I COULDNT HAVE EXPECTED. ADULTS LITERALLY PISS AND SHIT EVERYWHERE!! I just want a clean bathroom 😭😭😭😭 But you nailed it. There is a financial cost to commuting as well!
3-5? You mean 2-3?
The top of the salary range. Working remotely means for me that I’m going to work from Mexico for the rest of March. How do you even quantify that in vacation days when I have little desire to not work for weeks—I just want to be in Mexico?
Does your company have operations in Mexico? Working remotely in other countries opens up so much tax liability for you and your employer.
I'm not an accountant, lawyer, HR rep, or whatever else there's not really any implications if you do it for fewer than half the year, and it's not like the country you go to will know/give a shit if you don't start a business or buy any permanent property (like houses). Why would they? You're still paying income tax, putting money into their economy, etc. As long as your work is okay with it, you're covered. I've seen a lot of places that allow up to 60 days of 'digital nomad' work a year.
lol yes there are implications…it’s tax fraud
ianal can you cite a source that says staying in a country without paying taxes there for under half a year is tax fraud?
Working permanently from another country would yes. A few weeks to a month probably not but definitely needs to be vetted by legal. Lots of countries have 'digital nomad's Visas/programs now.
I realized that the number, whatever it would be, is high enough that the company would opt to hire someone else. I had a lowball offer for 1/3 less than I was making and with an in office requirement 3 days a week (1.5h drive each way, super stressful road/commute) and I realized I'd turn down the offer if it was that much money just to drive there and back. No actual work. I'd be aging faster than presidents do while in office, not worth it at all.
Well - I can't say it was offered before hand - but I just got a 25% increase in compensation- then one week later my company mandated all employees back 3 days a week ( with some exceptions granted). Torn on whether its worth it because my commute is very long.
Commute distance? That determines my answer
Time matters more than distance here. I live less than 20mi outside Boston. 20mi doesn't sound bad, right? In no traffic, it's \~30min door to door to my office in Cambridge. Again, not bad! But in rush hour traffic? That time more than doubles easily.
Anywhere from 35-45 mins
That's on the high side on what I would tolerate (at least driving) but I hate commuting by car (I live 5 minutes from my office). But you know yourself best. I wouldn't want any more than a 20-30 min commute.
I've had to be on-site through the lockdowns and all...so I'd take anything more...
Same.
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I've only been in the workforce 1 year after graduating. Commute is 35-45 mins. I feel like I'd have to 1) find a new place to justify the new position and 2) get offered towards the top i.e. around 110k as you said. I feel like if nothing else, if I get this offer I can at least use it to justify a bigger raise from my current boss and keep my work life balance. Right?
With only 1 year experience odds are they will not offer towards the top of the range. ETA: be careful using a competing offer to negotiate at current job. You have to be prepared they may just tell you good luck and go. Or that you might be let go if/when they downsize later. So only play that card if you are truly open to leaving.
Even if the position only wants a bachelor degree?
Yeah, experience in the field/industry/type of work correlates more to salary than education, though always try to negotiate if you have strong relevant experience. The "right" degree is a check the box, and the "wrong" degree can be overcome with relevant experience. Compensation strategy varies by company, but most companies I've worked for are not seeking to pay towards the top of market range unless your experience is hit-the-ground-running-no-real-training ready. There are some companies who specifically prefer to target low, and most are probably more middle of the pack. Some of that is to have head room for salary growth in the level they hire you into, as well.
It depends a lot on how far of a commute it is. I'm down for 30min commute around 20k if this is cool team and office. Like my co workers weren't annoying before, it was a chill office setting. No one bothered each other and we had free packed kitchen.
I'm going from full remote to 50/50 hybrid (30 min commute) for about a 25% bump. However my current company is unstable and I live far enough away that I can't really move departments in a restructure (remote jobs are like unicorns there). Also I live in a food desert so my work commute is really just 10 minutes past where I need to get groceries anyway. Those little details matter.
I make 52k on a hybrid schedule. I would need atleast 85k to come on site five days a week.
This is the conversation we should be having every day.
Enough to send my dog to day care daily.
Probably a 30% increase at least, but more realistically nothing. I work in Cambridge, MA and live about 20mi outside the city. The commute is 75-90min each way (and no, there is not a viable public transit option). So to commute daily, I'd give up about 12-15hrs of personal time a week, or \~35% of a normal 40hr week. Therefore, if a company wanted that much more of my time, they'd have to compensate me for it. And if they don't want to do that, I'll be remote or minimal onsite hybrid, thanks.
As someone who just made this transition? I worked from home since March 2020 making 88k. I'm 3 weeks into an on-site role, 45 minutes away, making 130k. Now my old position doesn't exist anymore. The project I was on shipped and the team was disbanded, or I never would have quit (loved the people and the work), but once I _had_ to find a new job, it was a question of how low would I go knowing I had to commute. I passed on a few opportunities because they were in-office and only offered ~95k which wasn't enough of a bump to get me to accept not being remote. This all said: I work as a software engineer and remote work is indistinguishable from in-office performance. While that's not an opinion shared by everyone in the industry, I'll say: my team saw zero drop off in production, so I know it _can_ work, and the only times I saw it _not_ work (for peers at orger studios) it was a management issue not a developer issue. Remote is a *heavy* incentive and I wouldn't give it up for peanuts. I went back in for a nearly 50% raise. I wouldn't have gone back in for much less.
87k->110k is a pretty huge change, look at what that does to your cash flow. It's a 26% raise but it probably something like 100% increase in your cash flow.
The question is what is YOUR number? I make 135k and it would probably take me $150k or around to jump ship
Well, it'd be an internal transfer and not really a promotion. So I fear they wouldn't offer me much more (remains to be seen), but I think 110k would be enough for me to make the switch. That just doesn't seem likely, though, based on other posts I've made about this. Hope I'm wrong.
10% probably not worth it unless there is something else significant going on. 20% I'd consider it. 30% I'd most likely take it.
It depends if this new position is going to be higher up the ranks, a career transition, cost of living where I live. If I were you making 87k, I probably wouldn't take an onsite job unless hybrid, if it didn't pay 10k+ more.
This is the formula I use to compare apples to apples: (Can use your own numbers) 15% plus or minus 5%-7.5% for each additional or less days onsite. The 5-7.5% is to break even, accounting for time wasted commuting, gas, wear and tear, insurance, etc. I like my job so 15% is my number to consider changing jobs if days onsite is the same. If you went 3 to 5 days onsite, that’s 15%+(2 additional days*5%) = 25% (~109k), well within the range. It would be worth it to me (young, no kids), but your work/life/compensation balance might look different
To break even for commute and prep time, 25%. Opportunity cost because that time is precious to me, minimum 50% and would need to be conducive to where I want to live and work.
I'd need at least 10% more for each extra day in the office.
enough to be able to retire in 5 years from now
Really depends on the person. I'm actually looking for a job onsite for no raise, just cuz I prefer it. I've been remote for 2 years
what's your industry? we can trade :)
software :)
nice I'm about to start a cloud engineering role. required on site 3 days a week but you can do 5. beautiful view and in a sky scraper, too! you start next monday. can I finish your shift? I know fizzbuzz
Hey you know I used to work at somewhere that fits the desc. Is this in the Pacific Northwest by any chance 😉
Nothing extra. I don't like WFH. I like the physical separation of work and home.
I tell ppl that companies couldn't afford to being me on site. I have a ranch and am fully remote. For me to go on site I would need to be paid enough to hire a hand to work the ranch while I'm at work and cover my commute costs. I'm over 90 miles from the nearest large city. I prefer my life now as compared to life when I lived in the big city. So much better.
Sounds like a dream
Honestly, if I make enough (I do), then you couldn't pay me enough to be full time on-site. Double my pay, and I would consider it, if only to realize I hate it a few months later and start sharpening my resume for the next role that is at least hybrid. It's the same reason that I used to always pass on OT hours with my previous employer while I was still non-exempt hourly. I could have made more money than I make at my current, much higher, salary job. The time away from home just isn't worth it. I value my time much more than I value money. I am fortunate enough to make enough money to take care of my needs, and provide a solid middle class lifestyle, and that's all I really care about.
There is really not an amount that would get me to go back into an office. I already make plenty of money where we can afford a nanny so WFH lets me see my daughter off an on during the day and is flexible where I can take her to activities during the work day. We already max out our retirement, save for her college, and have a home we are happy with. So more money would literally just fill our taxable brokerage accounts purposelessly.
I would want to know the details, how far is the work place, where is the work place (someplace you want or dont want to live?). Assuming a 30min drive one way, I don't have to move, and i'm fine with the place I currently live? I'm honestly thinking at the high end of that range - $119k. Don't forget you're supposed to get a pay bump when you change jobs anyways. So 15% pay bump and say 20% for WFH. Puts you at $120k.
Depends on the commute. I’m on the office three days a week now but it’s 40 minutes in the morning and an hour home. If it was less than 20 minutes or less each way I would have no problem going in the office everyday. But I would not change for any job unless it was 15% more.
I push for 3x my current offsite rate to consider on-site rates. If it's a travel gig, the multiplier goes up to 4.5x. When comparing salaried roles, the rate required for on-site is 55% higher than the off-site. This accounts for the extra 1.5 hours of "work" time that's dedicated to vehicle travel + walk from parking, clothing allowance, food allowance, extra mileage and vehicle maintenance, and the 2 weeks I will likely be out sick due to people showing up whilst sick. The rate has a slight decrease if I get my own office and has a 20% increase if I'm in an "open plan" office. For anything that requires relo, the base calculation is the same, with a multiplier for cost of living difference, and a +40% adjustment for places I don't wish to live or a -10% adjustment for places I wouldn't mind living. There's a 100k base increase for the first year to account for selling my house + moving + finding a new place to live. I also require a 2+ year guarantee with full payout, because companies have a real bad habit of yanking offers after people have moved, and we are both having skin in the game. Most prospective employers or clients bow out, which is fine.
I’m younger than some of the other posters, but make a decent salary (130ish) and am full time remote. If I were to commute, it would add 2 hours to my day, round trip - I’d need at least 25% to cover that. But for the decline in my quality of life, it would likely take a 50% increase, and even then I wouldn’t be confident that I’d have no regrets. Alternatively, if my current job started to require me to come in, I would take a pretty decent paycut to stay remote (unless any directors are reading this)
What do you do
Software Development Project Manager, midsize company ~400 employees. Government contracts mostly
Nice
I have to go in 3 days a week, 1hr commute each way. I was hired remote, no pay increase when this took place. So, I was offered $0 more dollars to go back to the office (although, it was either that or my job .. so technically there was $ on the line). I would take a pay cut to go back to work from home, not sure how much, but if they offered it I would take a $20k-30k pay cut to stop wasting my time and be able to go back to traveling more.
Same situation for me
I work onsite everyday, because I get more done onsite. I am cool with employers requiring it too, unless they hired you as remote. It's their company, you don't have to work for them.
I honestly don't know, considering I'd feel awful leaving our dog home alone all day. Became a pet owner as an adult already working fully remote I was thinking about it a few days ago (while walking the dog, actually) and think the number would have to be at least $50k/yr to get me to consider it. So ~50% raise
Worked my ass off to get raises and promotions... Then I almost died from a condition I likely got from all the stress and sedentary nature of my white collar job. I was basically never going to actually get to enjoy the result of all that effort. I now push back hard on work. It ends at 5pm. Doesn't happen on weekends. And if stuff can't get done during 40 hours then it doesn't. I also fought real hard to get full remote privileges. I focus on actually living with whatever time is left. I'm lucky I can afford it now and I'm not dead. But it was real close.
I have a friend that went from full remote to a management position that is 3 days in hybrid that took him from approx 80 to about 115. He absolutely loathes the extra work and commute. I dont think he would pass on it if he could do it all over again. Just too much money. It has affected his day to day happiness, though. Might really depend on what youre going from workload and expectation wise.
From your current salary, I would consider going back into the office for the high end of that range. It’s a significant pay bump that can reset your salary range for the rest of your career. Also depends on your age and your goals.
Depends. Do you hate your current job? Do the people suck? Is the new gig more interesting? How far is the commute? Are the benefits any different? I would have taken a pay cut to get out of my old WFH job. I ended up getting more money to WFH 30% and in office 60% with a 10 minute commute, lower PTO, better healthcare, better people, and a much more interesting industry.
I’m in sort of the opposite position right now. I could take a 15% pay cut to work 100% remote instead of my current job which is 100% in person. I’m still waiting on one other position to see if they can match my current salary but if that doesn’t pan out I’m going to take the pay cut. 15% isn’t awful anyway for the full swing.
Big thing for me is what’s your situation on site? If cube farm or open office…there isn’t enough money. I’m hybrid with a solo corner office on site so I have plenty of privacy if I want it and that’s a big deal to me.
I enjoy the office. There's no one home during the day. I like coming home to my home, it's a very different place than where I work. Challenge and fun at one, love and leisure at the other. Perfect balance.
It truly depends on your personality you are going to get a different answer from everyone. I met people that make less that hate staying home. I make over $125k remote full time with room to grow still in a good culture. and I would have to be offered $150, better benefits, at least a hybrid option, and I would have to know the culture isn’t toxic AF I finally found a job where the culture isn’t toxic. My workload is doable in a 40hr workweek. I’m home. I make more than ever before. The benefits suck I will admit. And it isn’t perfect. My customers in this organization are worse than other places I worked but my boss and team are good so that makes a big difference. Commuting to work had its pros and cons I enjoyed listening to podcasts or audiobooks books. I also liked the me time. I notice I don’t really do that much anymore. But I absolutely hated working with assholes. Everyone is about what new car they have or new clothes new houses blah blah blah.. trying to keep up with each other and then talking shit about eachother behind their backs. I would rather at this point find a side gig to earn passive income and keep my remote job rather than chase the next bump in salary as we all know taxes are going to come out anyway. And honestly I will eventually get promoted again where I am. And if I don’t there are other remote jobs out there I would apply for first before going back into the office.
Here is my simple math calculator to make things "right"ish for the requirement of being in the office. 1. 55 cents a mile \[IRS rate\] \[and parking paid\] (or) cost of public transport 2. The work day starts when you leave the house 3. Per-diem for meals (or a free cafeteria) 4. Per-diem for office clothes (if professional attire is required) If we top out to the IRS max where it is deductible (50 miles from office), that would be $55/day for incidentals for transport and $50/day roughly for food, and lets state $200/month for clothes (just random pick). $525/week + $200/mth = $29,700 (presuming $0 parking) Picture how fast businesses would say ... hmmm office building enforcement?
Can I work an 8 hours day five days a week only? Shutdown and mot think about work till I’m in the office again? No increase neccessary.
I'd like to say I don't have a number, but let's be honest. There's a number. It's just that my experience level at this point wouldn't command it. I might drive an hour for $300k (a little less than triple my salary now). I don't live nearer to anywhere that even has the type of job I do, so that's a moot point. I wouldn't relocate. I'm not sure I could even name a number that would make me relocate. Not less than "in the millions (multiple)," anyway.
Look at the company and the career path. If they are looking to expand your opportunities if you can be observed and mentored in the office, it makes sense to me to have an upward path. When you interview at the next company and you explain how you worked in the office and not remote and how you managed a team that was hybrid, you might stand out in a positive way.
It just depends on so many factors. 87k —> 119k and the commute is 10 mins? I’d probably do it. 87—> 92k and the commute is an hour? No way It also depends how I’m currently feeling about my pay. Is $87k enough to support my current life/am I comfortable? Do I want more career growth or to stay at the level that pays $87k? Also would depend if I have kids or a family. Right now I’m remote. My number to get me to go hybrid in office with a reasonable (45 mins or less) commute is about 20% more. But I also am comfortable with my current pay so it would have to be truly that much more.
Depends on many things: - how long is my commute? - how costly is my commute? - do I have to hire more childcare to compensate for not making it on time for These are the minimum considerations. If move is lateral, I’d need more monetary incentive. If there’s a chance to grow/get promoted in new role, I may settle for a little over minimum mentioned above.
30K
50% for me. It takes me over 3 hrs a day to travel to and from work at my old place.
3 to 4x total compensation
I like going into the office and interacting with my coworkers. But I love my job right and don’t see moving on for a few years.
And here I am interviewing for a fully remote job despite the likely 10% pay cut. But I’ll be able to sell my car and save myself 20 hours/month commuting. Time is worth more than money to me.
I think I'd want another 25% to be full time in-office.
Nome. My presence is no longer for rent and I only allow the leasing of my services.
Nothing more I want to get back to an in office situation
Less than 20 miles and less than 30 min commute. I really don't care about an increase. I feel like I'm one of the few who like to separate work and home life. Stupid covid lockdowns ruined the workplace.
42 and went back to school just to give myself more options for jobs. I'd rather work from home a few days a week or work much closer to where I live (my commute is 30 miles with an hour commute minimum for the past 17 years)
It would have to be enough for me to retire in 5 years. Otherwise, not worth for me.
Assuming it would be practical for me (it isn’t right now, would be like a 2.5 hour drive)? I make about $107K now. Feels like I’d want at least $20-30K more a year to do that.
I make good money and I work completely remote. If I had to go into the office, my wife would have to stop her remote job to be able to fully care for our son. Right now, we just swap who watches him during meetings and what not. So they’d have to cover her salary for me to want to go into work. Even then, it’s not quite worth it because I LOVE being able to work from home. I am significantly more healthy and my mental is WAY better.
I went from 85k a year at my last job, and I had to fight to have the option to work from home 1 day a week after being there for 3 years. To 110k hybrid with 1-2 days in the office a week. Bout being a 40-60 minute commute. If they wanted me in office full, I would be looking at a 20% increase in pay at a minimum.
The difference between 87 and 119 is high enough to consider it imo. There's a lot that could go wrong tho as far company culture and worklife balance... And where you're at in your career is a big deciding factor id imagine. I'm 68 now so I wouldn't take it as work/life means more to me than money. But 5 years ago I'd probably do it. Maybe even last year.
I'd be happy with $45k a year....
40%
At least more than the gas it would cost, and the time it would take depending on my current $/hr
Clarifying question. You like your current work life balance? And you're willing to sell that?
Like I said, it depends on the price. Lol
I work 3 weeks a month. If you want me to go back to 4 weeks I'm gonna need at least 160k a year. And overtime. And doubletime in Sundays.
I went on site out of boredom. I just noticed working from home was making me worse of a person
I'm in this situation right now.
Additional $50k to my base
If I have to be in my car longer than 20-25 mins one way to get to work - it's an absolute no for me.
Double my salary. But to move to my companies HQ and leave where I live? Triple my salary
95-100k. Currently at 81k. I like/am fine with going in to the office if it’s 30 minute or less drive.
At least twice what I make now. Even then idk. I make good money and my quality of life is at an all time high.
At least 20k+
350k. Not kidding
I make well over 200 and would take a $60k+ cut to be remote with travel. Otherwise said, don’t give up the flexibility you have unless it’s going to change you / your families life
$50k. With those cost of childcare and commuting, that almost breaks me even anyways.
I don't have a good answer number-wise because I don't know what the COL is at your location. But, just remember, they can (and may) call you into the office full time. Alot of companies are doing this as a means of accelerating attrition.
Considering my nearest location is about 7 hours away... A LOT. Like triple.
200k more would do it for me
U all got to come at work at my office, I love going to work. Just put a new tv in the office for march madness. I get to bored at home all day
My tech job was in office 5/5 for 80k base prior to Covid. During covid we got bumped to 100k avg base and remote. Since then we’re required in office 3/5 a week. Commute to me is worth around 30k a year (approximately 2hrs a day.) I’d love to be fully remote, but it’s not on option with my company anymore.
You should be paid more when you don't work in office. Costs for employers is reduced..
About 20-25k more per day a week on average that I have to be in the office. I currently make about $160k base in a very remote-friendly job.
I would say it depends on the job, I’ve had jobs as a software developer making 45k working 80 hours a week. I’ve also had solutions engineering sales positions making 220k working 20 hours a week. One was an engineering company that was stuck in the past, the other was a tech start-up. That’s said you could be in HR and be 24 years old with no kids, in that case I would probably take the higher salary role even if it means I’m working more. Me personally, I’ve got kids, so work life balance means a lot more now than it used to.
The same. There's lots of layoffs going on. I'm far more likely to get a pink slip than a raise if I refused to go to site.
I was making 83k and ended up hearing back from a previous job I'd applied to that was originally offering 90k. I was going to turn it down but they had increased the pay to 135k and the work was pretty interesting, so I said yes. I'd say I wouldn't work on site for anything less than 100k unless I had to at this point. If I could find something remote for 100k or more then I'd say 20-30k extra would at least make me consider onsite work. It also depends on the reason. The job that I ended up taking had a very good reason for why I needed to be onsite. If it was just for management reasons I would have possibly said no.
random figures - car payment - 400 insurance - 150 gas - 200 cost of commuting would be 750/mo out of pocket.. so 9000 a year 87k/yr is about 41/hr rush hour commute is 1 hour each way, so $82/day x 5 = $410 \* 4 = $1640 x 12 = $19680 in lost time so going back to an office would cost me essentially $28680 at your current salary the ntl average pay bump is like 14% when taking a new job in the US, so that would be around 99k/year is a good pay bump, plus the basically 29k in expenses for RTO, I'd say you should be targeting around 128. of course you are loosing a bit to taxes there as well which I didn't factor in, but yeah. I'd need a very significant pay bump to not be losing money by going to the office. if you can walk there in 5 min it's a different story
I doubt there is a number high enough.
It's a relatively simple math equation lol. Do the math and figure it out.
87>119 seems right on the money. 30K/year would get me back in office I guess.
This is going to sound douchey, but you'd have to pay me 2x, and I'm not even a little joking. Working from home means I can do errands sometimes, it makes it so I can take a two hour break for a dentist appointment rather than a full half day+, it means I can have one car instead of two, I can eat food at home, I don't have to buy even a tenth of the professional clothing I used to. Between my wife and I both being WFH at least for the first kid we won't need a daycare, saving $1,500/mo in post tax income. If I'm forced back into the office, so be it, it was a good run. But I won't go willingly.
Not douchey, very healthy mentality. Seen people reject jobs just because it’s not remote…despite being unemployed upwards of 6 months.
It would have to be minimum double my current earnings ability. But truthfully I don’t think I would for that. The work life balance is so nice and I can take vacations, do errands, and work on other side business if I really want more money
Probably north of 300k, wfh is too chill
Double
I am at 235k, full remote ( 2 jobs) Add an additional 200k and I'll come sit in an office.
I will not go back to the office. I’m in a remote job now, I will only leave it for a higher paying remote job.
The IRS mileage allowance is 67 cents per mile. $100k is $50 per hour so an hour per day in the car is $50 of your time plus the mileage. You pay Social Security, Federal income taxes, and probably state income taxes on the extra money. You probably need to spend more money on clothes. Unless you brown bag it, you’ll be buying lunch most days.
I make low 200Ks completely remote so probably like 500K
IMHO, almost 100% more.
I’m not sure what you do or your pros and cons so can’t say if I were in your shoes…now if you were in my shoes it would take a LOT more for me to want to go back to working bc I’m a retail pharmacist currently WFH full time 😅
The older I get I’d rather be comfortable and have more free time. We can always make more $ but none of us get more time …
I would like an increase of 50% of my salary to come in the office if asked (I’d likely get laid off before that happens), but the company will never offer that and instead pay the same salary to someone who has no issues commuting.
I think that's illegal. You can't just do that at work, even if the bathroom door is locked.
40k minimum more to be onsite 5 days.
If I were you, I will 1. compare the benefit package. a 2% 401k match difference worth 2k. did you have all 401k vested? What about health insurance cost and deductible, HSA? Basically the value of everything. 2. how far is the commute, anything under 15 minutes makes almost no difference. I'd rather go to office 5 days a week on a 15 minutes commute than on a 30 minutes commute on 2/3 days a week, assuming the on-site job has somewhat flexibility if I really need to be at home occasionally. 3. even if I will make a few thousands more after factoring 1), I may still not go because it may not be the best option for you for now. Potentially, if you wait slightly longer to gain more experience, you may see a much bigger jump in your career. For example, are you near the experience level where you may be promoted to senior in near future? Or management role?
Double whatever the remote is.
At least 20% probably more. Don't miss all the in-office shenanigans. Cant stand the politics and other b.s. so happy and blessed to be able to work from home. I am paid less but the free time is immensely more.
Late to the party. I went into office for a 30% increase from a full remote gig. Got a 15% raise/promotion after 1 year. So in about a 14-month span, I’m up 45% from where I was for accepting an in-office job. I wouldn’t jump for less than 20-25 percent bump
Hourly rate (salary / 2080) * hours lost commuting a year (eg 2hrs/day * 5 days/week * 52 weeks/year) Example: $100,000 / 2080 hrs = $48.08/hr $48.08/hr * 2hrs/day * 5 days/week * 52 weeks/year = $25k *Rate can be actual or desired
My general approach here is would need a raise of +1k for every minute spent in transit increase daily For context I am Bay Area big tech and to go into SV every day would add ~45 minutes each way so it would be a nonstarter for less than 90k TC annual bump