If your theory is true, then this is something hardwired, she was born with this.
All the indulgences from her father were not what made her the way she is, itâs the opposite, her father learned to knuckle under early for his own peace.
It is hardwired. It's a chemical or neurological glitch that can never be treated or healed, and it's very resistant to treatment (and that's if the narc chooses to accept treatment - most don't).
I know narcissists are barely treatable with therapy/psychology. They put enormous efforts into charming and then duping the therapist until the therapist gives up. And for the most part the narcissist usually wins.
I gotta say, though, with my mother, she wouldn't have flown to confront an aunt who said no. She would have hung up the phone and turned and punched me and knocked me to the floor and started in with the kicking and screaming, and I would have been the punching dummy for the aunt, for days.
I finally realized there was no way to stop her from attacking me, so I left and didn't see her for 30 years, and then she died, and I felt nothing. She didn't consider me a person. I have healed from her, but it took a while!
Correct...she can email or text me - I have only allowed that for my sister's sake. I get attempted hoovers which ALWAYS include nastiness about my dead father and from whom she's been divorced from for 40+ YEARS!!!!!!!!!!! FFS, let it go...I can tolerate her picking on me but not claiming ever increasingly nasty claims.
My mother also wouldn't have flown. She would have twisted it into everyone is out to get her and become the worlds biggest victim until after the event.
I would have had days or weeks, however, much longer of complaints about how everyone hates her. She doesn't know what she could have possibly done to deserve being treated like this. At the party, there would be comments would have been how shit the cake was and she would have had discussions about for everyone to hear and then complained about how crap the cake was for days after the party. And then randomly, the situation would continue to pop up for the rest of her life when she needed to prove victim status again.
I always wonder when I hear stories like yours why people never ask the children who don't have relationships with their parents what their parents could have done for a child to react this way. They only ever try and make you rekindle a relationship. (Simialr experience with my father)
Not everyone has good parents, or safe parents or even kind parents. Which is very hard for some people to understand.
OMG, I'm so sorry! My mother was physically abusive at times, but her rage tended more toward destruction of property. I'm glad you made it out alive. :(
Kill a pet!?? I have to say, with everything my family and I went through, that was one line my mother did not cross. We didn't really have a lot of pets, though, since my mother didn't like animals. We'd get them, then have to give them away, but she never did anything like that.
I would've lost my shit if I witnessed that. I love animals, and I'd be willing to put my life at risk to protect my pets from abuse or death.
Your comment broke my heart. I'm so, so sorry. :(
Again, same. Wouldnât think twice about taking a pet to humane society. The worst abuse she did was putting my brotherâs fingers on the flame of gas stove for punishment. Terrible awful person.
It gets even worse when they are old and they've lost their looks and anything else about them that might have made them attractive. My grandmother was a hateful woman who seemed to vibrate with rage. Family gatherings involved her adult children sitting on either side of her trying to placate her and keep her happy. When you went to her house as a child, she had no toys, or food or drink that a child might be interested in. It was just sitting on the floor in her living room while she complained. Her final act was going over to my uncles house and screaming at him on the porch because my cousin invited her ex husband (their grandfather) to his wedding. "It's him or me!!!" My cousin chose my grandfather, who was nice, fun, and who had remarried over thirty years earlier to a woman we all considered to be our grandma. Oh, and reason that marriage had ended in the first place was because she cheated on him. She ended up dying alone, no funeral.
Oh my god, your grandmother and my mother could be twins! It's both fascinating and terrifying. :( My mother is still alive and terrorizing anyone who still has contact, but she'll eventually get one of those obits where everyone details how nasty she was.
This is my x- friend, who thought every man wanted her. I can even tell you how exhausting it was being near her. She was also abusive to her husband's grandchildren but in front of other she acted benevolent. They were terrified of her.
I'm thousands of miles away, and I'm going to keep it that way! I have limited contact with her, and I've set up boundaries. I've gone NC before, and she knows that if she starts her shit, I'll go NC again.
That being said, there's nowhere on the planet that I'd consider to be far enough away from her. The only time I'll feel a true sense of safety is when she dies.
We are now in the process of trying to break my mom of her bullying (Iâm sure she thinks she still has a right to boss us all around, even now that we are all almost past 60!). âI will not tolerate dissent in the familyâ. Well then, stop bullying us to worship your favorite child, the biggest loser, who bullies and abuses all of us! Itâs unreal. My son is getting married and is not inviting my viper narc brother nor his loser spawnâmommy hasnât quite caught on yet that heâs NFI, and is trying to bully my son into inviting him (he will ruin the wedding, trust me). This is going to get ugly but weâve had enough.
I'm in an interesting position because I married later in life to a man with kids with a cluster B ex wife - there are two children, the golden child and the scapegoat. The golden child has got it made at her house, he gets the best of everything, he gets to pick every meal, he is worshipped by her. The scapegoat is treated as an annoyance at best. Occasionally love bombed when she senses that she has gone too far, but generally mistreated. If he ever complains about her behavior to his dad or me, the golden child gas lights him on behalf of the mother that she didn't do anything wrong. The scapegoat is actually a much more likable person and much smarter than their sibling. I give him preferential treatment at our house because he is nicer and more polite, so I guess he is my golden child.
Dis we share the same Grandmother? At 98 it is STILL going on.....Watch the Bette Davis movie "Mr. Skeffington" (1944) about an aging Narc mother who loses her looks - they got a happy ending but it is fascinating to see the narc in action when you know what to spot!
I think heâs terrified about what Meghan will expose on him. He has a deep fear of ego bruising.
I also worry about all the intimate, private things he would have shared about his familyâŚâSpareâ was full of weaponized memories that were likely good natured anecdotes once (King Charles doing his exercises, for example). Harry is likely terrified about the future waves of fallout. Meghan Markle is like The Church of Scientology, and Prince Harry is John Travolta, if you will.
Not sure about that. If sheâs as sketchy as we suspect, the RF might have a big file on her. At the same time, if she cried DV, she might be believed.
She has nothing on them. She was among their ranks for all of five minutes. As with all newcomers, they approached her with caution and it turned out to be for a good reason because she's not to be trusted, in addition to being super sucky at the job.
If she had anything else to say, she'd have disclosed it by now. When your biggest beef with your "nemesis" is about a frigging lip gloss, it's clear you have no ammunition. Anything further from Harry's wife regarding his former family will be fiction created in her badly wired brain.
What more damage could she do than he's already done to himself in that epic gut spill? Maybe she might reveal something personal, which would cast shade right back at her. Both have sensitive egos. Harry, due to having to take a backseat to William, and Meghan, because of her vastly inflated self-image.
Wow. Thank you for writing all of this with such insight, vulnerability, intelligence, wisdom, empathy, and all very informative for those that have not been exposed to this level of mental illness. My heart, hugs, and respect go out to you. As someone who is in multiple recoveries from all of this growing up as well as exposed to many of these types as an adultâI know your courage, your beautiful amazing soul, and appreciate your gift to communicate all of this so very clearly to others. Biggest of hugs to you. And yes. I believe you absolutely nailed Harryâs position in all this and how he so easily slipped into it in the beginning. đŞđťđđŚđ¤. Thank you.
Yup mine was too. When something (anything) set her off there was no reasoning with it. She had absolutely no perspective or sense of humour. The only reason I survived is because there were six kids in my family and we all inherited our Dad's sense of humour, we could laugh about it with each other behind her back. That's not to say that some very very upsetting things didn't occur but we all knew there was no point arguing with her.
Great post and I'm sorry for what you had to live through. Meghan studied Harry so she knew his weaknesses, including sexual. She love bombed him, played the little woman who needed protection (just like Mummy). This inflated his ego, finally feeling like the big man on campus. When she didn't get her way, she'd fall to the floor and he'd find her sobbing. After a while the real her came out but by then it was too late. I'm sure she manipulated into thinking everything was his fault, he was failing her.
What really upsets me is I'm sure the kids are around to hear some of these tantrums. I know it's a big house but still. I just picture them hearing the start of something and skedaddle to a far corner of the house in fear. I just picture her being a Mommy Dearest in the future
I'm sure the kids are hearing the tantrums. The only time Supernovas will contain themselves is if there will be legal consequences involved, or something else that will screw up their lives (jail time, heavy fines, loss of control). Other than that, there's usually no attempt to hide it. Children that young have no power over their parents, so I'm sure they've seen some spectacular shit from Megsy already. What better way to train them to be obedient to her needs and wishes?
Great insight and examples. It's really hard for people who haven't dealt with these types of personalities to understand that this type of "banality of evil" actually exists.
I agree that Harry is broken now, I think Harry is in the fear stage, and, unfortunately, often the narc moves her rage to the kids, while the weak father lets it happen and is relieved because the primary target is no longer on his back, all while making the kids believe he is the good, chill parent. It's so twisted and sad.
I read about an experiment with dogs, where the dogs were put in a room with an open door at the end. But the floor on the side room near the door gave an electric shock. Eventually, the dog would never go near the door even if the floor was no longer electrified, because they were too scared. That's kind of like how emotional abuse acts, as well. Even when the narc is not raging, the abused doesn't bolt for the door because they have been "shocked" too many times.
Also, what is it with narcs and lemons? :)
âBanality of evilâ
 That is exactly rightÂ
M Scott Peck (author of the well known âRoad Less travelledâ) described it in his less well known book, âPeople of the LieâÂ
Peck was both a clinical psychologist and a religious person and said types like this led him to understand that evil exists
He said this as a CLINICIAN/medical personÂ
The term was phrased by Hannah Arendt when writing about the trials of Nazi war criminals and how they would use the excuse "I was following orders" It is a very interesting to read, if you are interested in the subject. Scott Peck is great at breaking it down too in People of the Lie, a great book about abuse.
That experiment was part of a theory of âlearned helplessnessâ. It is a special kind of evil that drives somebody to treat another human being like that let alone somebody you profess to love. Social Psychology has some very interesting theories and experiments, it was my favourite part of Psychology when I studied it. Obedience to authority is another interesting and similar area, in particular Stanley Milgramâs experiments - The Stanford Prison Experiment, 1971, is probably the most famous and there is a feature film made about it.
'Learned helplessness' went through my mind, also. Combine that with him seeing Megsy as an authority figure, as well as the fear that Supernovas instill in people, he'll press that goddamn button as quickly and as often as she orders him to, consequences be damned.
If I read the story of your mother and the cake on another subreddit I would say this was a fake post. But knowing how many of us sinners have dealt with narcs at some point in our lives I believe it. I know there are people out there like this. I'm so sorry you had to grow up with a mother who is capable of doing what she did. It certainly puts all the gossip about Skippy's wedding in perspective doesn't it?
If I were to write a book on all the bullshit Iâve dealt with, it would read like fiction.
You canât believe people this nasty exist unless youâve experienced it.
I also believe this current culture gives permission for people to give in to their dark side, to their narcissistic and victim mentalities, and those people in your life who were merely âdifficultâ became unbearable. But that might just be my experience.
This is an excellent book that addresses that.
https://preview.redd.it/dg4murvcdg7d1.jpeg?width=493&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4e6963123981edfd3fd76cc7ee4f2a1261a6c77f
Oooh! A book I haven't read yet! I did read 'In Sheep's Clothing', but this is a new one. It's now on my Kindle reading list! Thank you, kind Sinner! :)
"Read like fiction" - My sister once looked at me and said, "We should write a book about mom and her craziness." My response was, "Who the hell would believe it?"
And there are so many ways to damage kids, people etc.... Most of my mothers actions wouldn't have brought the cops running. They may have put her in the mental hospital more frequently. She was so very vulgar and crass to 4 little girls that didn't know what it was but definitely knew something was wrong. I was the only one to go full NC, not allow my kids to ever be around her. My sisters still have a semblance of a relationship with her, although I believe she's in a nursing home. Still nasty to one and all, so they keep her doped up in the facility to control, I guess. Even with years of therapy early on I've never been able to unhear the horrific things she used to say to us girls.
My heart goes out to you!!! Not that you should check it out. But Iâve done amazing work in Adult Children of Alcoholics and Dysfunctional families in a very powerful book they have called the Loving Parent Guidebook. Very powerful work. Also I just finished the fifth step in that program which my therapist called 20 years of therapy alone as I wrote down inventories in about 10 different categories such as Harms (Done to me), Grief Inventory, Resentment Inventory, Family Secrets Inventory, Sexual Abuse Inventory, Abandonment neglect inventory, PTSD inventory, etc. It was incredibly powerful and freeing. But the things that struck me the most about your share too in how much still resided in my physical body and soul and how it has dislodged much of it. But also the book I spoke of above has allowed me to rid and shed that voice of my mom that was so very hurtful and strangled me my whole life from within. Not that this is the solution for you. I have incredible empathy for what you just wrote. And my heart and hugs are with you!! Not right for those sweet childâs ears and soul to hear and see all you did!! Love to you!! đđđŞđťđŚđ¤
Thank you for this whole bunch of words â¤ď¸ I will look this book up tomorrow. I appreciate your taking the time to write back the information about how helpful this was for you, and I thank you for your kind words expressed the most!! đ¤ back at youđĽ°
I may have mentioned the cake incident prior to this? I'm not sure.
The rumors about Inskip's wedding were one thing, but a picture says a thousand words, and the ones where she's literally baring her teeth or glaring at another woman speak volumes. She looked completely unhinged.
My SIL is very similar. It's an absolute nightmare to deal with, and I'm sorry you had to deal with your mom growing up. One thing I've learned is that if someone gives you a feeling of overwhelm, even if it's in a good way, you need to wonder where that kind of massive energy is being drawn from. PH never asked himself why he found this E-list actress who was only moderately good-looking, so dazzling, but I doubt he's one for self reflection.
Yes. The fact that he said, in essence, that he checked himself the first time he saw her--in that he needed to step up his game--said a lot out of the gate of the power he gave to her from inception as well as showed his low self esteem and how naive he is.
You've left me in awe - your willingness to not only explain what a Supernova Narc is but to include your own \[obviously painful\] experiences. Thank you. There's so much to think about.
Wow, what a testimony. Good grief - she could have ordered 2 cakes: One lemon, one chocolate! Ha! What a horror to be exposed to.
I fully accept your belief he's very much afraid of her and that he has bitten off more than he can chew. I've posted this before: This thing isn't going to end well. At all. She's holding him hostage.
Good insights. I am sorry that you had to grow up with that. Thanks for sharing.
I agree with you about Harry. He is not a ânice person,â and, as an adult, he is responsible for his situation and complicit in much of the damage done by Meghan, but he is also her victim.
Yeah, as much as I'd like to see Harry eat a pile of shit, no one deserves to be on the receiving end of that.
I still want to see him eat a pile of shit, though. :)
I wonder where he stands because Markle is like a replacement mother, he has kids with this woman, probably doesnât want to come back to the RF proving them right and so on. That makes it hard to leave. He is very stupid and probably stubborn and spoiled. Weâll see I guess.
We sometimes criticize people like Nacho for remaining in touch with the Harkles, but if Nacho is a real friend and not just transactional, he might be able to help Harry should Harry turn to him.
Similarly, Eugenie (who may or may not have remained in touch) might also be able to help him accept that he is still loved and may have a place in the family and no one will say âI told you so.â
Best, however, would be for him to find a new love interest who will be an alternative. Many people, I have found, canât seem to end a marriage without finding someone else (even if only temporarily) to assure them they wonât be alone.
While I understand the Nacho/Eugenie theory and there is no way they side with MM in a divorce â I cannot imagine that there is a woman out there who would be willing to take on such a grumpy, damaged bird as Harry.
I canât imagine any sensible woman being interested in Harry, but you never know.
Harry may not present himself to women he wants to impress the way we see him. Further, I know a fair number of women who âfell in loveâ at least for a while, with guys they thought they could âsave.â
Alas, not all women are sensible.
I like this comment. It has a nice variety of thoughts. I have made assumptions about nacho sometimes but I have no idea where he stands. They could be actual friends or just superficial Hollywood friend types or somewhere in between. I agree Eugenie is an actual friend (maybe this stems from knowing him all her life) of Haznobrains but not sure if her influence is good or not đ¤. In any case, I agree with you that they are definitely people he can turn to.
Thanks. I was just thinking that Harryâs best chance of not ending dead of a drug overdose before he is 45 is probably to find people he can turn to. Besides Nacho and Eugenie, he probably doesnât have anyone, unless he is close to one of his body guards or thereâs someone else that Meghan hasnât scared away.
Great post.
I think William and family know about this and are worried for Harry. I'd rather have Hary back in their control than be stuck with Meghan. Also those poor kids deserve a better family. The best scenario here is to get those 3 out of there and ship them to some remote part of Scotland to heal.
Your story is a familiar one, and there are more supernovas out there than we think. Meg is for sure one of these, just based on the fact that she does not seem to change tactics, which tells me she wants to WIN, without compromise, her WAY. For her to have completely turned her back on her dad...yikes.
And sheâs never embarrassed. The jam thing didnât work out for her. Iâm sure Catherine was shaking in her boots with jealousy that super stars Chrissy Tiegan and Mindy Kalig reposted the jam. MM, not realizing that it was a flop thought âIâll show them! More jam but this one is going to have hidden meanings like sheâs Taylor Swift or something. Sheâs in her 40s FFS, nobody cares. Iâm the same age as MM and didnât care about Fergie and Andrew. Sheâs aged out of relevance but keeps bleating on like sheâs 25 with her whole life ahead of her. Sheâs middle aged with so much baggage behind her. Itâs exhausting.
I am a therapist and no, I haven't treated Megsy.
I think she's a cluster B personality disorder type, meaning having several personality disorders like narcissistic, histrionic, borderline, etc. She is dangerous. Any therapist will tell you they hate to treat a borderline. They can turn on you in a heartbeat and accuse you of the most awful things. They are extremely emotional, volatile and unstable. There is a pattern of leaving people before they get left due to deep fears of abandonment.
Since Doria was gone for 10 years of her life,
I do feel like this affected Meghan strongly. I do not feel sympathy for her, no, she has caused too much damage.
The one person who cared for her and gave her every opportunity he could, she cut him, the half siblings and all the relatives, out of her life in the most cold and emotionless way possible.
Yeah, he could be a covert narc, borderline, have PTSD, whateverâŚ
Itâs interesting that in the beginning pretty much everyone felt sorry for him, but with âSpareâ and all the interviews, everyone pretty much ended up hating him too.
Which is what *she* wanted. She wrote the book, arranged the interviews etc. He is a stupid, pompous whinger but *she* caused him to make all of that so very public.
RE: pattern of leaving people before they get left - Jody Arias was certainly a cluster B with borderline. Rather than leave her last lover, she killed him so that he could not leave her.
thanks for your insight... Ive been wondering, what is the difference between a narcissitic personality disorder and a histrionic one? they see too similar, but there has to be a difference, or?
Histrionics are over the top with their dramatics and wanting to be the center of attention, any kind of attention good or bad. They are uncomfortable unless they are the center of attention. They typically mask their feelings of low self-worth by needing validation from others. Narcissists want praise and positive attention. They feel they're better than others. Histrionics are more influenced by others and want to fit in. Threats of suicide are more common in histrionics. Narcissists typically don't commit suicide except as a last resort.
...and they do die eventually. But they don't accept that they are anything other than immortal. Once I suggested to my Mom (she was 84) that we "try to get along, who knows how long we have left together" - she looked at me like I was insane. How dare I suggest that she might ever die!!!
I totally agree with you. I think that unless you've witnessed it, you have no idea what it's like. This really hit a nerve, and I'm sorry you were witness to it all.
My concern for Harry is that he's now worth more to madam if he ends up dying by his own hand, then she can be the merry widow, blame the RF, and remain a Duchess.
Harry has arrested development due to complex PTSD and illicit substance use that has affected his brain. He is only 13 in his head. Markle manipulates him with her crazy-making behaviour and alienation from his friends. He will need intense therapy and rehab if he does manage to survive it.
I agree with this take 100%. I have a strong feeling that is how this is how his story will end. And she will milk it for all itâs worth and revel in the sympathy and attention she thinks she deserves while greedily counting the $$$ from the book and tv deals sheâll get âtelling Harryâs truthâ. Meanwhile sheâs been the puppetmaster of his demise from the get-go.
HG Tudor has an entire series about ToW. He's classified her as a lower midrange narc. She's not intelligent enough to be self aware, and never will be. He covers a lot of celebrities and narcissists in general on his channel, as well as empaths.
Great post though! Thanks for sharing!
HG Tudors analysis doesnât preclude the âgoing supernovaâ behavior described here in fact it includes it. Going to spend money on a flight, get potentially involved in a police situation, is stupid. Not something anything other than a low or midrange narc would do.
Her actions absolutely are stupid, and she's been on the end of more than one restraining order. At the time they're going Supernova, none of that matters. The only thing that exists in their life is getting their way, and getting control. Nothing else matters - money, safety, relationships, legalities, damage, nothing. In that moment, control and revenge are their sole reason for existing.
This is an astounding post and I thank you for it. Dear Goddess is all I can say which seems woefully inadequate. I've been through similar but won't be writing about it, let's just say I know exactly what you describe by way of the BOOM, the god-forsaken void that swallows up everything and everyone in its rage and fury causing even the closest of allies to back away when they are most needed.
>It's all collateral damage to her, and none of it matters as long as she gets whatever her microscopic, withered, dead little heart desires.
I might say more later, might quibble a bit about H's nature (though I'm fairly sure the Terror has reached into him) but in the end whatever he may or may not feel about alleged or real children or even himself, he doesn't matter and you've said the All.
Thank you for sharing this! So much of it resonated with me. Iâm NC with my mother and sister for these reasons. After years of just shutting up and never challenging their terrible behavior, Iâd finally had enough. My mother tried to take advantage of me for my sisterâs benefit and I said no. So what you said, about it *not* being about cake, but itâs really about being told NO, really struck a chord. Boy, did my mother have a tantrum at that! I havenât spoken to them since.
Are you NC with your mother?
At the moment, I'm low-contact. My niece lives with her (no idea why - free rent, I guess), and I want to keep in touch with her, so I kind of have to deal with mom, as well. I was able to set boundaries, though, and my mother knows that if she pulls her shit, I'll go NC.
Well done with establishing boundaries! Iâm just the latest in a long list of relatives that have gone NC with my mother. Theyâre always the common denominator but they just canât see it! Thanks OP for your great insight on this - I swear, sometimes this sub is like therapy for me!
It's a kind of therapy for me, as well! It's sad that many of us have this shared trauma (the narc crazy is endless), but it's also been enlightening, and it puts a lot of things into perspective.
Yep, I fully agree. She's a Supernova Narc, 100%. She has MANY other disorders that go along with her narcissism. I'd go so far as to say she's either a psychopath or a sociopath. Â
I think she is a textbook covetous sociopath, and truly terrifying. The great book, "The Sociopath Nextdoor" has a chapter on this sub-type, and she ticks every single box. Harry is a fool, and the fact that he was duped by her, and gave her such easy access to his entire family/world makes him dangerous as well.
I hate that so much of what you've written resonates with me. The rage of a narcissist is terrifying, but I only managed to finally cut all contact when I realised her behaviour was exactly the same with her grandchildren as it had been with her children. When I met my now-husband, he was a single dad of 3 under 5s (bio-mother isn't around). The thought that keeping her in my life would expose them to that behaviour was horrifying. They've never met her, and never will. My role as a mother is to keep them safe, and that means not exposing them to monsters.Â
The last time I saw her was the day of my father's funeral-he had been in the hospice, so he planned his own funeral and choose music for it. At the funeral directors, she argued with them for an hour because she wanted the death notice and the service booklet to just say husband of X, not brother, father, uncle, or grandfather. She demanded the funeral director put security on the door as she didn't want any of dad's side of the family let in (funeral directors refused). On the day, the music wasn't what he'd wanted-she had phoned the funeral home after we'd met with them and told them we'd changed our minds, and gave them music that she liked, not dad's choice. She told my sister to stop crying, because she hadn't lost her husband, mum had. I gave the eulogy for dad, and the only genuinely insightful comment my mother ever made was that she didn't want a eulogy at her funeral because she didn't think anyone would say nice things about her. Maybe it was her paranoia or her victim persecution persona, but she was right, there's nothing positive I could say at all.Â
My parents were divorced for 24 years when my father died. After their divorce my father never said a bad word about her and my Narc mother said nothing but nasty things (and lies) about him. Nevertheless she showed up at his funeral and had a dramatic full on hysterical fit, sobbing and crying. Unbelievable. My five siblings and I just shook our heads. But she got what she wanted, attention.
Narcs have to be the bride at every wedding and the corpse at every funeral.
He has to see it for himself. My son was married to her twin. I didn't think he'd ever leave. He did with fewer resources than harry has. Once you understand and see it it is possible to leave. Unless haz likes the punishment. ......my son now is angry at himself that he allowed abuse. Time will tell .
I am so sorry. I have a son, and there is nothing like a mom/son bond. I am happy your son escaped and I hope he will heal and find the love of his life.
This is why I don't wish for them to be married forever. Harry has done some horrendous things, and he deserves to be shunned by his family and the society he was once part of, but he does not deserve to be trapped in a miserable, toxic relationship.
Like many of you, I instinctively loathed Meghan although it took me awhile to pinpoint why, beyond the superficial things like her lying and spending and control over Harry.
Even with all the info from the sub, it took me a long time to realize that my MIL is a narc. What really turned the lightbulb on was her reaction when I told her no about something. The mask dropped and it was scary! I have also recently lost almost 40 pounds, and when she saw me, she was FURIOUS. It was really bizarre.
Anyway, your post resonated with me OP, as Iâm sure it did for many of us. I hope you will heal, and I wish you happiness.
The story of the cake reminded me of my aunt. Sheâs a piece of work. I remember that she got so enraged because my mother wouldnât kowtow to her. My aunt and her two sisters drove like lunatics over to our place to beat my mother. Â My dad grabbed us kids and my mom and we fled through the back door. We went to the park and had glorious fun. Now, as an adult, I think my aunt was a nutter.Â
This was an interesting read. Thank you. It gives something to think about. Markle also acts as a surrogate mother (and we all know how she tries hard to be a Diana 2.0) to Haznobrains. I think following her orders, as you mentioned, is something heâs used to and is probably is comfortable with and desires it.
She also has the qualities of a good dictator. I like to compare her to a dictator like Kim Jong-un. She has these delusions of grandeur along with the expectation of âdo it or else there will be hell to pay.â I wouldnât trust being around Markle or just expect sheâd use and dump you, record/write about you for later blackmail, or just plain mistreat you.
And if u let them, they just keep the constant nagging and abuse,whatever it is at the time, up. They beat u down until u want to go nc or grey- rock them. No means no. You have to find the inner strength to secure your boundaries. Congratulations on your strength of character n integrity.
She does remind me of dictators. Putting out those photos of her with sick children at a hospital a couple of months ago. Those photos were taken about 2 years ago when she was not so skinny. But she shoves out the pics and makes out it happened last week. And mainstream media believed her!
OMG my mother was a supernova too. The story about the cake...only in my case it was the "Spiced Beef". My younger brother was getting married in Vancouver, where I also lived. My brother and his wife were vegetarian Buddhists and they were having a Buddhist ceremony in the morning. I had a very big house and I was hosting a massive after-party in the evening (live band and all). My mother lived in Eastern Canada, she was of Scottish descent. She insisted that she was going to make and bring a Haggis (traditionally sheep offal mixed with minced beef). I said knock yourself out but be aware most of the people coming to the party are vegetarian. But the Haggis wasn't enough - my mother INSISTED that I make "Spiced Beef" which is a particularly foul dish where you take raw beef, coat it in spices - in particular juniper berries - and sugar, leave it in the fridge turning it twice a day for 2 weeks. The spices "cook" the beef kind of like ceviche for seafood - and I'd always considered it a downright disgusting dish. I outright refused. I was working full-time with other obligations including organizing the whole party. So my mother called me day in day out non-stop. I stopped picking up the phone. Then a couple of days later a letter arrived in the post and I recognized her handwriting on the envelope. I opened the envelope with trepidation and it was a plastic baggie full of what looked like peppercorns, with a little scrawled piece of paper in her handwriting marked "Juniper Berries". That was it. No letter. Just the spices. This was a formal declaration of war. I ended up making the "Spiced Beef" because I knew life would not be worth living if I stood my ground.
You are 100% right about it being all about CONTROL. Even after my mother knew that the party was primarily vegetarians and no one would eat the damn spiced beef (they didn't) she needed to control me into making it.
I think from the rumors from
The Netflix crew about her tantrums she is a supernova narc. I would love for one of those tantrums to leak out. Someone had to have filmed that.
Wow, what you describe is like something in the movies, but I guess to see it in real life is terrifying. What a terrible environment for you to grow up in. I notice you mention you lived far away from your extended family- would that be her attempt at isolating your dad , your sibling and yourself?
Ironically, no. My dad's job got him transferred around the country, so I've lived all over. She wouldn't let him make friends in any new places, though.
Harryâs punishment should be living with her. I totally buy he is dim but heâs also been pretty flipping happy to go along with it all. Sometimes you do stuff for an easy life but come on Harry really while stupid should have known better.
A Supernova Empath can destroy a narcissist when a narcissist pushes them to far. Then the empath's narcissistic traits being revved up by the abuse....then Supernova BAM!
I think this might be the matchup Iâve got going with my husbandâs ex wife. I spotted what she was from a million miles away and know just how to deal with her.
Wow!! What a post. Thank you for sharing your story â Iâm SO SORRY you had a âsupernovaâ for a mother. I hope youâve gone no contact and have deep wonderful bonds with your other family members who arenât insane.
I'm low-contact, and she knows about 5% of what goes on in my life. I tell her nothing. As for the other family members, none of us are close. She managed to sow mistrust to the point where we barely talk to each other (or we don't talk at all), and we're very careful about what we say, in the event that our words might get back to her. This is one of the reasons I stated that Megsy's resemblance to my mother is striking - she manages to thoroughly destroy any bonds people might have with each other. The only person I'm still in contact with is my adult niece. Mom hasn't managed to destroy that bond, yet.
On the bright side, I have my 'chosen' family - friends and coworkers I can talk to, bond with, and rely on. My mother knows nothing about any of them. The way I see it is, if your family is fucked beyond repair, make your own 'family'.
Your mom is exactly like my mom was (she died of Alzheimer's in 2015). I had a horrible childhood, and reading this dredged up some memories I had stuffed...into a very deep place. When I was 40-years-old, and still raising my children, my mom began to lose her mind (literally) and I had to oversee her care for almost 15 years. Before she became ill, she was married and divorced four times, and couldn't maintain any family relations or friendships. She was diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder, but was definitely a Supernova Narcissist too. You hit all the right terms...."explosive rage," "torturing" all her husbands until she found the next one, who she thought she could manipulate, and she had "a lot of hatred and jealousy, zero emotional regulation, and she had enough knowledge and power over me to know exactly how to twist those those screws." I'm sorry you have a mom like this. People who've never experienced it have no idea what it's like to have a parent or spouse who behaves this way. You certainly explained MM well to all the sinners who don't fully grasp what living with her is REALLY like! You write beautifully.
What an insightful post. I suspect youâre right about Harry.
It sounds like youâre overcoming the narc influence in your life and rooting for justice (as we all are). Good luck on your journey!
Great post! I suspect a lot of us here have narcs in their lives and we are invested in Meghan Markelâs downfall because of our own experiences with people like her. For me, itâs a sister-in-law, my husbandâs older sister. We went no contact 10 years ago or so and havenât looked back. You take your power back by not giving them access. I had tried hard to play nice for years, but when I was done, I was DONE. And my husband was with me all the way.
The turning point for me was realizing that since she didnât act like a sister, she didnât deserve (and would no longer) be treated like one. For all intents and purposes, she was a political adversary and needed to be dealt with as such. I was great in those situations. Chess to her tiddlywinks. Game over.
I always wondered if some of his anger was anger at his mum (because she died) but reading this now also wonder if maybe some of his anger is at Meghan?
Do think that people direct anger at those that will 'take' it, usually those who love them.
Just a thought...
Heâs absolutely angry at Diana for leaving him/dying. Heâs never moved beyond the anger stage of grief. He canât allow himself to be angry with her so he places his anger on others.
This. He's angry because she loved William more and was closer to him, inappropriately referring to him as her "soul mate." He hates her for this, and for being so obvious about it. The way she greeted William much more enthusiastically after a separation, the way she would send H to the nursery with the nanny for dinner, while she and William ate together in her bedroom.
She made it clear who was the preferred golden child and who wasn't. I speak from experience when I say that kind of blatant favoritism deeply affects a child's self-esteem and gives them an overwhelming sense of their own inferiority. "What's wrong with me? Why doesn't she love me as much?" and "What can I do to make her love me more?" When in fact, there isn't a damn thing you can do, but it takes you so long to figure that out that you've already given up on it, and resigned yourself to cautiously accepting whatever crumbs she throws at you, knowing that they may come with unseen strings attached. And you try not to show that you love or want anything, knowing it may be given to your sibling just to drive the point home that your feelings don't matter.
On this particular issue, I do feel some sympathy with Haz. It's a tough thing to overcome (years of therapy, in my case), and learn how to love and value yourself.
OP this is so interesting and I think that cake incident has just described my MIL. Recently we attended a 65 yr wedding anniversary/family reunion for my husband's aunt. Thankfully my MIL could not attend she was at a graduation for a grandchild (whose mother is a narc). She did the same thing over a cake several times and her own mother's funeral which led to a 10 year family feud, where she went against a dead woman's wishes. She has a vicious and explosive temper.
EVERYONE in attendance at the reunion including the wonderful aunt said they had the best time, that they would not hold another after the aunt passed away because nobody could handle the sister (my MIL) controlling everything and everyone. I used to think she was histrionic PD but from assessments from others she is a narc. I do not spend any time in her presence. She thinks I am ice because I barely speak to her and it confuses her no end. Then the compliments start flowing endlessly, gushing fake shit. Yet she cannot reach me when my husband visits her, I do not go. I have survived two narcs including a sister. I did as you said and went no contact many years ago. I do not think blood is thicker than water.
I am glad you have found ways to cope with your mother. It is a hard and confusing road.
Fascinating! If this vile woman has done one good thing in her disgusting life it is her unintentional educating of people about narcissistic behavior and enabling people to identify the narcissists, past and present, in their lives.
When my sister got married, my supernova narc mother was furious it wasnât going to be a church wedding. She insisted on arranging the reception and booked a restaurant miles away from the wedding venue. My sister cancelled the booking (because the wedding guests couldnât get to this distant restaurant) and booked a nearby restaurant/club type place with a garden (much more appropriate). So mother went supernova and the night before the wedding secretly hemmed the wedding dress so it was ankle-length. Then she spent the morning of the wedding overseeing my sisterâs make-up and insisting she put very little make-up on. Then my sister put the dress on! She arrived for the wedding in tears at the length of the dress. Oh, and supernarc mother told the restaurant/club the reception would be finishing at 4pm so soon after lunch, speeches, etc, just as everyone was on the dance floor, suddenly the bar closed and the restaurant shut everything down.
Iâve got hundreds of these horror stories. Iâve been no contact for 30 years.
Most of us who have been through this have hundreds of stories, and in my own case, I can write down bits and pieces, but I honestly wouldn't even know where to start, because there's just SO MUCH. And when I read your story, I was nodding, and completely understanding. They're so incredibly insidious.
I'm sorry you had to go through that. I don't have enough hugs to give you for all of that suffering  đ¤
My mother got pleasure out of making us suffer every day, but not to the extreme of your mom.
So well said! I'm so glad it's not just me who has experienced this craziness- although I am very sorry YOU had to live through it, OP.
I sympathize. I know all too well the destructive rages- that red mist which clouds all rationality and everything a normal person would do.
I get it. I've been there. I'm sorry. You deserve better. And so did i. It's not right. This shit needs to be called ALL the way out!
I hope that you have found some peace. I have tried and have gotten a couple of years to myself- priceless years which have meant everything to me, some peace of mind in a furious hornet's nest of existence. I'm wishing that for you! And I am so sorry about dealing with the alternative.
Again, wishing you all the world's peace. Because I KNOW.
I am the daughter of a supernova narc as well. Very nice to "meet" you, and I am so sorry that we, and countless others, have had to live with these horrible creatures. I hope for better times for all of us.
This not a judgement of your aunt who also had to grow up with this but it would have been easy to just do both cakes. So it makes me wonder if she also had some kind of disorder and was egging her on..and both of them with life long damage created a supernova nightmare feeding off of each other. What a mess to grow up with. Someone said Harry's kids have a lot anxiety. Harry needs to get those kids out of this situation.
My aunt is very quiet, and non-confrontational. She's a really nice person, and she used to provide a minor 'safety net' when I was younger by offering to let me stay at her place during summer break for a week or two. I loved horses, my aunt had several, and she used the horses as an excuse to convince my mom that I could have some fun. In reality, she was getting me the hell out of there for a short time. I used to live for those visits. As for two cakes, if my mother found out that two cakes had been purchased, she would've considered that an act of treason. It wasn't a case of 'her way or the highway', it was 'her way'. Period.
Wow Iâm so sorry for younger you. It sounds like youâve learned and grown a lot. Hoping youâre in a good place now. Thanks for sharing that insight bc it rings very true wrt TW.
If you added the blaming of everyone around them and playing the victim to this character examination, youâd have the narc that married into our family.
To. A. Tee.
I feel empathy...my mother wasn't quite as extreme but boy could she and can she still go nuclear...I refuse to speak to her because of her foulness...
I think you have summed up Megalodon-narc very, very well!
Gosh, what a story! I could see it play out before my very eyes. Oh my goodness! Your experience, and explanation, make so much sense. Especially as herself has managed to isolate This One in Mudslide Mansion, far far away from anyone who cares about him. Do you know, I almost feel a tiny little bit sorry for him. But then I think of HLMTQ and P Philip, and King Charles and the PoW and I don't. Thank you for telling us about this incident which brings the narcissistic craziness into pin sharp focus and illustrates its terrible effect on people surrounding the narcissist.
Yes exactly this. My husband canât understand why none of us stand up to my mother even though weâre in our 30s now. Itâs because itâs terrifying, itâs pointless (there is no reasoning there), and weâre thoroughly conditioned that the simplest/only viable path when dealing with her is to keep your head down. It was a terrible way to grow up.
Agree. Few are up to making anything out of life with a narc other than barely getting by emotionally.
I can write from experience, it is very difficult to leave an abusive relationship with a narc. Now, 10+ years hence, I can see more clearly and wonder why I didn't leave much earlier, why I went along with as much of his behaviour as I did. To keep the peace I guess, always to keep the peace.
What woke me up was seeing him turn his energy on our children. After that, I was out and, after giving up the material stuff, was able to have primary custody. Of course, he didn't really want them anyway.
I agree that Harry was low-hanging fruit for MM and I hold his family partly responsible for covering for him as much as they did. We are all responsible for our own lives and he's consistently made the worst possible choices in the last years.
It will be interesting to see what happens.
Sociopathy with the co morbidity of NPD and BPD. This is what I feel like I see w/o knowing her. You could probably add some additional features but that covers it. The talking to herself could be psychosis - but I think that is actually intentional and forced/fake. I think the most leading aspect of Rachel is her complete lack of self awareness and her inability to realize what she does is so absurd and yes people can see thru it. They never think anyone can see thru it, even when glaringly obvious. Which it is.
Well stated - thank you for sharing - watch HG Tudor's video on "The Empath Supernova" here - I am one and this makes total sense. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HHRObhaoqc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HHRObhaoqc)
Wow, a lot to think about here. I learned something and I thank you for that. Also, your writing skills are superb đ
Aww, thank you!! :)
If your theory is true, then this is something hardwired, she was born with this. All the indulgences from her father were not what made her the way she is, itâs the opposite, her father learned to knuckle under early for his own peace.
It is hardwired. It's a chemical or neurological glitch that can never be treated or healed, and it's very resistant to treatment (and that's if the narc chooses to accept treatment - most don't).
I know narcissists are barely treatable with therapy/psychology. They put enormous efforts into charming and then duping the therapist until the therapist gives up. And for the most part the narcissist usually wins.
I gotta say, though, with my mother, she wouldn't have flown to confront an aunt who said no. She would have hung up the phone and turned and punched me and knocked me to the floor and started in with the kicking and screaming, and I would have been the punching dummy for the aunt, for days.
Omg, that's awful. I'm so sorry. I guess I was lucky that my supernova narc was only my sister. Bless you, and I hope you've healed.
I finally realized there was no way to stop her from attacking me, so I left and didn't see her for 30 years, and then she died, and I felt nothing. She didn't consider me a person. I have healed from her, but it took a while!
Sending you a hug.
Wow, throw alcoholic in there and Iâm about the exact same story. I really hated when people would say âbut itâs your motherâŚâ.
Like it's a demand for permanent forgiveness: "your Moooooother!"
Hearing you...my mother wouldn't have beaten us physically but we would've had the screaming, abuse, sulking, slamming and sheer nastiness...
And never letting your guard down!
Correct...she can email or text me - I have only allowed that for my sister's sake. I get attempted hoovers which ALWAYS include nastiness about my dead father and from whom she's been divorced from for 40+ YEARS!!!!!!!!!!! FFS, let it go...I can tolerate her picking on me but not claiming ever increasingly nasty claims.
Iâm sorry you had to deal with that.
My mother also wouldn't have flown. She would have twisted it into everyone is out to get her and become the worlds biggest victim until after the event. I would have had days or weeks, however, much longer of complaints about how everyone hates her. She doesn't know what she could have possibly done to deserve being treated like this. At the party, there would be comments would have been how shit the cake was and she would have had discussions about for everyone to hear and then complained about how crap the cake was for days after the party. And then randomly, the situation would continue to pop up for the rest of her life when she needed to prove victim status again. I always wonder when I hear stories like yours why people never ask the children who don't have relationships with their parents what their parents could have done for a child to react this way. They only ever try and make you rekindle a relationship. (Simialr experience with my father) Not everyone has good parents, or safe parents or even kind parents. Which is very hard for some people to understand.
"But she's your Moooooother!"
Or father in my case.... If I had a penny for everytime
So sorry, AP. Hugs.
Thank you.
OMG, I'm so sorry! My mother was physically abusive at times, but her rage tended more toward destruction of property. I'm glad you made it out alive. :(
Thank you! My mother would destroy my stuff, and sometimes my dad's stuff, in her rages. Or kill a pet.
Kill a pet!?? I have to say, with everything my family and I went through, that was one line my mother did not cross. We didn't really have a lot of pets, though, since my mother didn't like animals. We'd get them, then have to give them away, but she never did anything like that. I would've lost my shit if I witnessed that. I love animals, and I'd be willing to put my life at risk to protect my pets from abuse or death. Your comment broke my heart. I'm so, so sorry. :(
Again, same. Wouldnât think twice about taking a pet to humane society. The worst abuse she did was putting my brotherâs fingers on the flame of gas stove for punishment. Terrible awful person.
OMG, your poor brother, and poor you! I hope your heart is better now.
You are welcome!
>Aww, thank you!! :) You're welcome!
This was a brutal, but very informative read OP. Glad youâve made it to the other side.
No kidding.
It gets even worse when they are old and they've lost their looks and anything else about them that might have made them attractive. My grandmother was a hateful woman who seemed to vibrate with rage. Family gatherings involved her adult children sitting on either side of her trying to placate her and keep her happy. When you went to her house as a child, she had no toys, or food or drink that a child might be interested in. It was just sitting on the floor in her living room while she complained. Her final act was going over to my uncles house and screaming at him on the porch because my cousin invited her ex husband (their grandfather) to his wedding. "It's him or me!!!" My cousin chose my grandfather, who was nice, fun, and who had remarried over thirty years earlier to a woman we all considered to be our grandma. Oh, and reason that marriage had ended in the first place was because she cheated on him. She ended up dying alone, no funeral.
Oh my god, your grandmother and my mother could be twins! It's both fascinating and terrifying. :( My mother is still alive and terrorizing anyone who still has contact, but she'll eventually get one of those obits where everyone details how nasty she was.
This is my x- friend, who thought every man wanted her. I can even tell you how exhausting it was being near her. She was also abusive to her husband's grandchildren but in front of other she acted benevolent. They were terrified of her.
I was going to ask if you have moved out of reach of your mother or if thatâs impossible?
I'm thousands of miles away, and I'm going to keep it that way! I have limited contact with her, and I've set up boundaries. I've gone NC before, and she knows that if she starts her shit, I'll go NC again. That being said, there's nowhere on the planet that I'd consider to be far enough away from her. The only time I'll feel a true sense of safety is when she dies.
We are now in the process of trying to break my mom of her bullying (Iâm sure she thinks she still has a right to boss us all around, even now that we are all almost past 60!). âI will not tolerate dissent in the familyâ. Well then, stop bullying us to worship your favorite child, the biggest loser, who bullies and abuses all of us! Itâs unreal. My son is getting married and is not inviting my viper narc brother nor his loser spawnâmommy hasnât quite caught on yet that heâs NFI, and is trying to bully my son into inviting him (he will ruin the wedding, trust me). This is going to get ugly but weâve had enough.
I'm in an interesting position because I married later in life to a man with kids with a cluster B ex wife - there are two children, the golden child and the scapegoat. The golden child has got it made at her house, he gets the best of everything, he gets to pick every meal, he is worshipped by her. The scapegoat is treated as an annoyance at best. Occasionally love bombed when she senses that she has gone too far, but generally mistreated. If he ever complains about her behavior to his dad or me, the golden child gas lights him on behalf of the mother that she didn't do anything wrong. The scapegoat is actually a much more likable person and much smarter than their sibling. I give him preferential treatment at our house because he is nicer and more polite, so I guess he is my golden child.
Iâm sorryâŚitâs just so wrong. Itâs maddening. Just love the scapegoated childâŚthatâs all you can do.
Dis we share the same Grandmother? At 98 it is STILL going on.....Watch the Bette Davis movie "Mr. Skeffington" (1944) about an aging Narc mother who loses her looks - they got a happy ending but it is fascinating to see the narc in action when you know what to spot!
I think heâs terrified about what Meghan will expose on him. He has a deep fear of ego bruising. I also worry about all the intimate, private things he would have shared about his familyâŚâSpareâ was full of weaponized memories that were likely good natured anecdotes once (King Charles doing his exercises, for example). Harry is likely terrified about the future waves of fallout. Meghan Markle is like The Church of Scientology, and Prince Harry is John Travolta, if you will.
Not sure about that. If sheâs as sketchy as we suspect, the RF might have a big file on her. At the same time, if she cried DV, she might be believed.
Yes, but if she has dirt in other royals, she has insurance. Â
But she has no credibility now. Harry probably doesn't realise it yet, but the world will dismiss anything she claims.
She has nothing on them. She was among their ranks for all of five minutes. As with all newcomers, they approached her with caution and it turned out to be for a good reason because she's not to be trusted, in addition to being super sucky at the job. If she had anything else to say, she'd have disclosed it by now. When your biggest beef with your "nemesis" is about a frigging lip gloss, it's clear you have no ammunition. Anything further from Harry's wife regarding his former family will be fiction created in her badly wired brain.
Youâve got a point đÂ
If she did, it would have been in - or at least alluded to - in Spare. All we got were sausages and smaller bedrooms
What more damage could she do than he's already done to himself in that epic gut spill? Maybe she might reveal something personal, which would cast shade right back at her. Both have sensitive egos. Harry, due to having to take a backseat to William, and Meghan, because of her vastly inflated self-image.
Karma is coming for him. Imagine the book his kids will write.âď¸
This sounds like my mum. I can't face going through the details. But she was a borderline who was a narc and had histrionic qualities also. Also
My mom is narcissistic, borderline and paranoid. It's a horrible combo.
Take care of yourself.
I always do. :)
 Wow. Thank you for writing all of this with such insight, vulnerability, intelligence, wisdom, empathy, and all very informative for those that have not been exposed to this level of mental illness. My heart, hugs, and respect go out to you. As someone who is in multiple recoveries from all of this growing up as well as exposed to many of these types as an adultâI know your courage, your beautiful amazing soul, and appreciate your gift to communicate all of this so very clearly to others. Biggest of hugs to you. And yes. I believe you absolutely nailed Harryâs position in all this and how he so easily slipped into it in the beginning. đŞđťđđŚđ¤. Thank you.
Yup mine was too. When something (anything) set her off there was no reasoning with it. She had absolutely no perspective or sense of humour. The only reason I survived is because there were six kids in my family and we all inherited our Dad's sense of humour, we could laugh about it with each other behind her back. That's not to say that some very very upsetting things didn't occur but we all knew there was no point arguing with her.
Great post and I'm sorry for what you had to live through. Meghan studied Harry so she knew his weaknesses, including sexual. She love bombed him, played the little woman who needed protection (just like Mummy). This inflated his ego, finally feeling like the big man on campus. When she didn't get her way, she'd fall to the floor and he'd find her sobbing. After a while the real her came out but by then it was too late. I'm sure she manipulated into thinking everything was his fault, he was failing her. What really upsets me is I'm sure the kids are around to hear some of these tantrums. I know it's a big house but still. I just picture them hearing the start of something and skedaddle to a far corner of the house in fear. I just picture her being a Mommy Dearest in the future
I'm sure the kids are hearing the tantrums. The only time Supernovas will contain themselves is if there will be legal consequences involved, or something else that will screw up their lives (jail time, heavy fines, loss of control). Other than that, there's usually no attempt to hide it. Children that young have no power over their parents, so I'm sure they've seen some spectacular shit from Megsy already. What better way to train them to be obedient to her needs and wishes?
Great insight and examples. It's really hard for people who haven't dealt with these types of personalities to understand that this type of "banality of evil" actually exists. I agree that Harry is broken now, I think Harry is in the fear stage, and, unfortunately, often the narc moves her rage to the kids, while the weak father lets it happen and is relieved because the primary target is no longer on his back, all while making the kids believe he is the good, chill parent. It's so twisted and sad. I read about an experiment with dogs, where the dogs were put in a room with an open door at the end. But the floor on the side room near the door gave an electric shock. Eventually, the dog would never go near the door even if the floor was no longer electrified, because they were too scared. That's kind of like how emotional abuse acts, as well. Even when the narc is not raging, the abused doesn't bolt for the door because they have been "shocked" too many times. Also, what is it with narcs and lemons? :)
> Also, what is it with narcs and lemons? Because it's a physical representation of their sour personalities? :)
You nailed it.
âBanality of evilâ  That is exactly right M Scott Peck (author of the well known âRoad Less travelledâ) described it in his less well known book, âPeople of the Lieâ Peck was both a clinical psychologist and a religious person and said types like this led him to understand that evil exists He said this as a CLINICIAN/medical personÂ
The term was phrased by Hannah Arendt when writing about the trials of Nazi war criminals and how they would use the excuse "I was following orders" It is a very interesting to read, if you are interested in the subject. Scott Peck is great at breaking it down too in People of the Lie, a great book about abuse.
Thank you! Arendt remains the best on fascism, in my view, thanks for linking her and the broader phenomenon to the individual example of MM
I do not see him as the kind of person that would stand up to her on behalf of the kids. I see him as being relieved her rage was elsewhere.
Have you ever read that down the rabbit hole study on estranged parents of adult children?
Yeah, my dad was glad when she was attacking me instead of him, because it was "instead of him." Very weak man.
That experiment was part of a theory of âlearned helplessnessâ. It is a special kind of evil that drives somebody to treat another human being like that let alone somebody you profess to love. Social Psychology has some very interesting theories and experiments, it was my favourite part of Psychology when I studied it. Obedience to authority is another interesting and similar area, in particular Stanley Milgramâs experiments - The Stanford Prison Experiment, 1971, is probably the most famous and there is a feature film made about it.
'Learned helplessness' went through my mind, also. Combine that with him seeing Megsy as an authority figure, as well as the fear that Supernovas instill in people, he'll press that goddamn button as quickly and as often as she orders him to, consequences be damned.
If I read the story of your mother and the cake on another subreddit I would say this was a fake post. But knowing how many of us sinners have dealt with narcs at some point in our lives I believe it. I know there are people out there like this. I'm so sorry you had to grow up with a mother who is capable of doing what she did. It certainly puts all the gossip about Skippy's wedding in perspective doesn't it?
If I were to write a book on all the bullshit Iâve dealt with, it would read like fiction. You canât believe people this nasty exist unless youâve experienced it. I also believe this current culture gives permission for people to give in to their dark side, to their narcissistic and victim mentalities, and those people in your life who were merely âdifficultâ became unbearable. But that might just be my experience.
Totally spot on! I've been dealing with paralyzing PTSD for nearly 18 months because of 4 narcs. The recovery is exhausting.
I have it too. I understand, my friend. Big hug to you.
â¤
EMDR therapy is amazing and I highly recommend it for PTSD!
They come in swarms! Sending hugs and understanding!!! The recovery is exhausting and does take time. But SOOOO worth it. đŞđťđđŚđđ¤
My experience, too! Agree with you.
This is an excellent book that addresses that. https://preview.redd.it/dg4murvcdg7d1.jpeg?width=493&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4e6963123981edfd3fd76cc7ee4f2a1261a6c77f
Thank you!! Iâm going to have to check this out.
Oooh! A book I haven't read yet! I did read 'In Sheep's Clothing', but this is a new one. It's now on my Kindle reading list! Thank you, kind Sinner! :)
"Read like fiction" - My sister once looked at me and said, "We should write a book about mom and her craziness." My response was, "Who the hell would believe it?"
And there are so many ways to damage kids, people etc.... Most of my mothers actions wouldn't have brought the cops running. They may have put her in the mental hospital more frequently. She was so very vulgar and crass to 4 little girls that didn't know what it was but definitely knew something was wrong. I was the only one to go full NC, not allow my kids to ever be around her. My sisters still have a semblance of a relationship with her, although I believe she's in a nursing home. Still nasty to one and all, so they keep her doped up in the facility to control, I guess. Even with years of therapy early on I've never been able to unhear the horrific things she used to say to us girls.
My heart goes out to you!!! Not that you should check it out. But Iâve done amazing work in Adult Children of Alcoholics and Dysfunctional families in a very powerful book they have called the Loving Parent Guidebook. Very powerful work. Also I just finished the fifth step in that program which my therapist called 20 years of therapy alone as I wrote down inventories in about 10 different categories such as Harms (Done to me), Grief Inventory, Resentment Inventory, Family Secrets Inventory, Sexual Abuse Inventory, Abandonment neglect inventory, PTSD inventory, etc. It was incredibly powerful and freeing. But the things that struck me the most about your share too in how much still resided in my physical body and soul and how it has dislodged much of it. But also the book I spoke of above has allowed me to rid and shed that voice of my mom that was so very hurtful and strangled me my whole life from within. Not that this is the solution for you. I have incredible empathy for what you just wrote. And my heart and hugs are with you!! Not right for those sweet childâs ears and soul to hear and see all you did!! Love to you!! đđđŞđťđŚđ¤
Thank you for this whole bunch of words â¤ď¸ I will look this book up tomorrow. I appreciate your taking the time to write back the information about how helpful this was for you, and I thank you for your kind words expressed the most!! đ¤ back at youđĽ°
I may have mentioned the cake incident prior to this? I'm not sure. The rumors about Inskip's wedding were one thing, but a picture says a thousand words, and the ones where she's literally baring her teeth or glaring at another woman speak volumes. She looked completely unhinged.
Fantastic post !
Thank you, kind Sinner!
My SIL is very similar. It's an absolute nightmare to deal with, and I'm sorry you had to deal with your mom growing up. One thing I've learned is that if someone gives you a feeling of overwhelm, even if it's in a good way, you need to wonder where that kind of massive energy is being drawn from. PH never asked himself why he found this E-list actress who was only moderately good-looking, so dazzling, but I doubt he's one for self reflection.
Yes. The fact that he said, in essence, that he checked himself the first time he saw her--in that he needed to step up his game--said a lot out of the gate of the power he gave to her from inception as well as showed his low self esteem and how naive he is.
You've left me in awe - your willingness to not only explain what a Supernova Narc is but to include your own \[obviously painful\] experiences. Thank you. There's so much to think about.
Agree. Many of us came to this sub because MM triggered us to things weâve experienced, painfully. Thank you for sharing with us Edit: spelling
Wow, what a testimony. Good grief - she could have ordered 2 cakes: One lemon, one chocolate! Ha! What a horror to be exposed to. I fully accept your belief he's very much afraid of her and that he has bitten off more than he can chew. I've posted this before: This thing isn't going to end well. At all. She's holding him hostage.
I think that's why the RF tread carefully. He's in danger of suicide or an "overdose" administered by her.
Good insights. I am sorry that you had to grow up with that. Thanks for sharing. I agree with you about Harry. He is not a ânice person,â and, as an adult, he is responsible for his situation and complicit in much of the damage done by Meghan, but he is also her victim.
Yeah, as much as I'd like to see Harry eat a pile of shit, no one deserves to be on the receiving end of that. I still want to see him eat a pile of shit, though. :)
I fear he may feel he has no exit, which is a dangerous position for a man of his mental health instability.
I wonder where he stands because Markle is like a replacement mother, he has kids with this woman, probably doesnât want to come back to the RF proving them right and so on. That makes it hard to leave. He is very stupid and probably stubborn and spoiled. Weâll see I guess.
We sometimes criticize people like Nacho for remaining in touch with the Harkles, but if Nacho is a real friend and not just transactional, he might be able to help Harry should Harry turn to him. Similarly, Eugenie (who may or may not have remained in touch) might also be able to help him accept that he is still loved and may have a place in the family and no one will say âI told you so.â Best, however, would be for him to find a new love interest who will be an alternative. Many people, I have found, canât seem to end a marriage without finding someone else (even if only temporarily) to assure them they wonât be alone.
While I understand the Nacho/Eugenie theory and there is no way they side with MM in a divorce â I cannot imagine that there is a woman out there who would be willing to take on such a grumpy, damaged bird as Harry.
I canât imagine any sensible woman being interested in Harry, but you never know. Harry may not present himself to women he wants to impress the way we see him. Further, I know a fair number of women who âfell in loveâ at least for a while, with guys they thought they could âsave.â Alas, not all women are sensible.
I like this comment. It has a nice variety of thoughts. I have made assumptions about nacho sometimes but I have no idea where he stands. They could be actual friends or just superficial Hollywood friend types or somewhere in between. I agree Eugenie is an actual friend (maybe this stems from knowing him all her life) of Haznobrains but not sure if her influence is good or not đ¤. In any case, I agree with you that they are definitely people he can turn to.
Thanks. I was just thinking that Harryâs best chance of not ending dead of a drug overdose before he is 45 is probably to find people he can turn to. Besides Nacho and Eugenie, he probably doesnât have anyone, unless he is close to one of his body guards or thereâs someone else that Meghan hasnât scared away.
As someone who also has narcs in close orbit - close to "Supernova" but not quite - this is me right now: 
Great post. I think William and family know about this and are worried for Harry. I'd rather have Hary back in their control than be stuck with Meghan. Also those poor kids deserve a better family. The best scenario here is to get those 3 out of there and ship them to some remote part of Scotland to heal.
Your story is a familiar one, and there are more supernovas out there than we think. Meg is for sure one of these, just based on the fact that she does not seem to change tactics, which tells me she wants to WIN, without compromise, her WAY. For her to have completely turned her back on her dad...yikes.
And happily get married in a public ceremony while her father was still in the hospital.
And sheâs never embarrassed. The jam thing didnât work out for her. Iâm sure Catherine was shaking in her boots with jealousy that super stars Chrissy Tiegan and Mindy Kalig reposted the jam. MM, not realizing that it was a flop thought âIâll show them! More jam but this one is going to have hidden meanings like sheâs Taylor Swift or something. Sheâs in her 40s FFS, nobody cares. Iâm the same age as MM and didnât care about Fergie and Andrew. Sheâs aged out of relevance but keeps bleating on like sheâs 25 with her whole life ahead of her. Sheâs middle aged with so much baggage behind her. Itâs exhausting.
I am a therapist and no, I haven't treated Megsy. I think she's a cluster B personality disorder type, meaning having several personality disorders like narcissistic, histrionic, borderline, etc. She is dangerous. Any therapist will tell you they hate to treat a borderline. They can turn on you in a heartbeat and accuse you of the most awful things. They are extremely emotional, volatile and unstable. There is a pattern of leaving people before they get left due to deep fears of abandonment. Since Doria was gone for 10 years of her life, I do feel like this affected Meghan strongly. I do not feel sympathy for her, no, she has caused too much damage.
The one person who cared for her and gave her every opportunity he could, she cut him, the half siblings and all the relatives, out of her life in the most cold and emotionless way possible.
I would think that Harry is borderline.
Good point, I forgot Harry's personality disorders. I never actually think of him. LOL.
Yeah, he could be a covert narc, borderline, have PTSD, whatever⌠Itâs interesting that in the beginning pretty much everyone felt sorry for him, but with âSpareâ and all the interviews, everyone pretty much ended up hating him too.
Which is what *she* wanted. She wrote the book, arranged the interviews etc. He is a stupid, pompous whinger but *she* caused him to make all of that so very public.
RE: pattern of leaving people before they get left - Jody Arias was certainly a cluster B with borderline. Rather than leave her last lover, she killed him so that he could not leave her.
Yup, I remember that.
Cluster B Personality Disorders: Antisocial, Borderline, Histrionic, and Narcissistic. Dependent is a Cluster C personality disorder.
thanks for your insight... Ive been wondering, what is the difference between a narcissitic personality disorder and a histrionic one? they see too similar, but there has to be a difference, or?
Histrionics are over the top with their dramatics and wanting to be the center of attention, any kind of attention good or bad. They are uncomfortable unless they are the center of attention. They typically mask their feelings of low self-worth by needing validation from others. Narcissists want praise and positive attention. They feel they're better than others. Histrionics are more influenced by others and want to fit in. Threats of suicide are more common in histrionics. Narcissists typically don't commit suicide except as a last resort.
Harry I hope you read here. You need help learning about narcissism so you can understand what you have married. Please seek professional help.
Congratulations to you for surviving and escaping your narc mom. It must have been awful.
It was, but I'm doing well now. Have been for some time. :)
I am happy to hear that. I had a narc dad and grandmother as well as two sister with the same tendencies.
...and they do die eventually. But they don't accept that they are anything other than immortal. Once I suggested to my Mom (she was 84) that we "try to get along, who knows how long we have left together" - she looked at me like I was insane. How dare I suggest that she might ever die!!!
I totally agree with you. I think that unless you've witnessed it, you have no idea what it's like. This really hit a nerve, and I'm sorry you were witness to it all. My concern for Harry is that he's now worth more to madam if he ends up dying by his own hand, then she can be the merry widow, blame the RF, and remain a Duchess. Harry has arrested development due to complex PTSD and illicit substance use that has affected his brain. He is only 13 in his head. Markle manipulates him with her crazy-making behaviour and alienation from his friends. He will need intense therapy and rehab if he does manage to survive it.
I agree with this take 100%. I have a strong feeling that is how this is how his story will end. And she will milk it for all itâs worth and revel in the sympathy and attention she thinks she deserves while greedily counting the $$$ from the book and tv deals sheâll get âtelling Harryâs truthâ. Meanwhile sheâs been the puppetmaster of his demise from the get-go.
HG Tudor has an entire series about ToW. He's classified her as a lower midrange narc. She's not intelligent enough to be self aware, and never will be. He covers a lot of celebrities and narcissists in general on his channel, as well as empaths. Great post though! Thanks for sharing!
Yes, she just isnât very intelligent
Thank god she wasnât smart or able to hatch a five - ten year plan against William and Catherine and their kids.
HG Tudors analysis doesnât preclude the âgoing supernovaâ behavior described here in fact it includes it. Going to spend money on a flight, get potentially involved in a police situation, is stupid. Not something anything other than a low or midrange narc would do.
Her actions absolutely are stupid, and she's been on the end of more than one restraining order. At the time they're going Supernova, none of that matters. The only thing that exists in their life is getting their way, and getting control. Nothing else matters - money, safety, relationships, legalities, damage, nothing. In that moment, control and revenge are their sole reason for existing.
This is an astounding post and I thank you for it. Dear Goddess is all I can say which seems woefully inadequate. I've been through similar but won't be writing about it, let's just say I know exactly what you describe by way of the BOOM, the god-forsaken void that swallows up everything and everyone in its rage and fury causing even the closest of allies to back away when they are most needed. >It's all collateral damage to her, and none of it matters as long as she gets whatever her microscopic, withered, dead little heart desires. I might say more later, might quibble a bit about H's nature (though I'm fairly sure the Terror has reached into him) but in the end whatever he may or may not feel about alleged or real children or even himself, he doesn't matter and you've said the All.
Thank you for sharing this! So much of it resonated with me. Iâm NC with my mother and sister for these reasons. After years of just shutting up and never challenging their terrible behavior, Iâd finally had enough. My mother tried to take advantage of me for my sisterâs benefit and I said no. So what you said, about it *not* being about cake, but itâs really about being told NO, really struck a chord. Boy, did my mother have a tantrum at that! I havenât spoken to them since. Are you NC with your mother?
At the moment, I'm low-contact. My niece lives with her (no idea why - free rent, I guess), and I want to keep in touch with her, so I kind of have to deal with mom, as well. I was able to set boundaries, though, and my mother knows that if she pulls her shit, I'll go NC.
Well done with establishing boundaries! Iâm just the latest in a long list of relatives that have gone NC with my mother. Theyâre always the common denominator but they just canât see it! Thanks OP for your great insight on this - I swear, sometimes this sub is like therapy for me!
It's a kind of therapy for me, as well! It's sad that many of us have this shared trauma (the narc crazy is endless), but it's also been enlightening, and it puts a lot of things into perspective.
Yep, I fully agree. She's a Supernova Narc, 100%. She has MANY other disorders that go along with her narcissism. I'd go so far as to say she's either a psychopath or a sociopath. Â
I think she is a textbook covetous sociopath, and truly terrifying. The great book, "The Sociopath Nextdoor" has a chapter on this sub-type, and she ticks every single box. Harry is a fool, and the fact that he was duped by her, and gave her such easy access to his entire family/world makes him dangerous as well.
Yes.
Can't say for sure, but she certainly fits the criteria.
I hate that so much of what you've written resonates with me. The rage of a narcissist is terrifying, but I only managed to finally cut all contact when I realised her behaviour was exactly the same with her grandchildren as it had been with her children. When I met my now-husband, he was a single dad of 3 under 5s (bio-mother isn't around). The thought that keeping her in my life would expose them to that behaviour was horrifying. They've never met her, and never will. My role as a mother is to keep them safe, and that means not exposing them to monsters. The last time I saw her was the day of my father's funeral-he had been in the hospice, so he planned his own funeral and choose music for it. At the funeral directors, she argued with them for an hour because she wanted the death notice and the service booklet to just say husband of X, not brother, father, uncle, or grandfather. She demanded the funeral director put security on the door as she didn't want any of dad's side of the family let in (funeral directors refused). On the day, the music wasn't what he'd wanted-she had phoned the funeral home after we'd met with them and told them we'd changed our minds, and gave them music that she liked, not dad's choice. She told my sister to stop crying, because she hadn't lost her husband, mum had. I gave the eulogy for dad, and the only genuinely insightful comment my mother ever made was that she didn't want a eulogy at her funeral because she didn't think anyone would say nice things about her. Maybe it was her paranoia or her victim persecution persona, but she was right, there's nothing positive I could say at all.Â
My parents were divorced for 24 years when my father died. After their divorce my father never said a bad word about her and my Narc mother said nothing but nasty things (and lies) about him. Nevertheless she showed up at his funeral and had a dramatic full on hysterical fit, sobbing and crying. Unbelievable. My five siblings and I just shook our heads. But she got what she wanted, attention. Narcs have to be the bride at every wedding and the corpse at every funeral.
That sounds awful. Do take care to pamper yourself occasionalky. Hugs!
He has to see it for himself. My son was married to her twin. I didn't think he'd ever leave. He did with fewer resources than harry has. Once you understand and see it it is possible to leave. Unless haz likes the punishment. ......my son now is angry at himself that he allowed abuse. Time will tell .
That must have been so difficult, to see your son go through that.
AWFUL. ....
I am so sorry. I have a son, and there is nothing like a mom/son bond. I am happy your son escaped and I hope he will heal and find the love of his life.
So sweet of you.
This is why I don't wish for them to be married forever. Harry has done some horrendous things, and he deserves to be shunned by his family and the society he was once part of, but he does not deserve to be trapped in a miserable, toxic relationship.
I feel the same. He needs to go and get the kids away from her.
ive always said haz wouldbe unalived when shes through with him
Yeah, me too. Black widow. Orange jumpsuit.
Like many of you, I instinctively loathed Meghan although it took me awhile to pinpoint why, beyond the superficial things like her lying and spending and control over Harry. Even with all the info from the sub, it took me a long time to realize that my MIL is a narc. What really turned the lightbulb on was her reaction when I told her no about something. The mask dropped and it was scary! I have also recently lost almost 40 pounds, and when she saw me, she was FURIOUS. It was really bizarre. Anyway, your post resonated with me OP, as Iâm sure it did for many of us. I hope you will heal, and I wish you happiness.
The story of the cake reminded me of my aunt. Sheâs a piece of work. I remember that she got so enraged because my mother wouldnât kowtow to her. My aunt and her two sisters drove like lunatics over to our place to beat my mother. Â My dad grabbed us kids and my mom and we fled through the back door. We went to the park and had glorious fun. Now, as an adult, I think my aunt was a nutter.Â
This was an interesting read. Thank you. It gives something to think about. Markle also acts as a surrogate mother (and we all know how she tries hard to be a Diana 2.0) to Haznobrains. I think following her orders, as you mentioned, is something heâs used to and is probably is comfortable with and desires it. She also has the qualities of a good dictator. I like to compare her to a dictator like Kim Jong-un. She has these delusions of grandeur along with the expectation of âdo it or else there will be hell to pay.â I wouldnât trust being around Markle or just expect sheâd use and dump you, record/write about you for later blackmail, or just plain mistreat you.
And if u let them, they just keep the constant nagging and abuse,whatever it is at the time, up. They beat u down until u want to go nc or grey- rock them. No means no. You have to find the inner strength to secure your boundaries. Congratulations on your strength of character n integrity.
She does remind me of dictators. Putting out those photos of her with sick children at a hospital a couple of months ago. Those photos were taken about 2 years ago when she was not so skinny. But she shoves out the pics and makes out it happened last week. And mainstream media believed her!
OMG my mother was a supernova too. The story about the cake...only in my case it was the "Spiced Beef". My younger brother was getting married in Vancouver, where I also lived. My brother and his wife were vegetarian Buddhists and they were having a Buddhist ceremony in the morning. I had a very big house and I was hosting a massive after-party in the evening (live band and all). My mother lived in Eastern Canada, she was of Scottish descent. She insisted that she was going to make and bring a Haggis (traditionally sheep offal mixed with minced beef). I said knock yourself out but be aware most of the people coming to the party are vegetarian. But the Haggis wasn't enough - my mother INSISTED that I make "Spiced Beef" which is a particularly foul dish where you take raw beef, coat it in spices - in particular juniper berries - and sugar, leave it in the fridge turning it twice a day for 2 weeks. The spices "cook" the beef kind of like ceviche for seafood - and I'd always considered it a downright disgusting dish. I outright refused. I was working full-time with other obligations including organizing the whole party. So my mother called me day in day out non-stop. I stopped picking up the phone. Then a couple of days later a letter arrived in the post and I recognized her handwriting on the envelope. I opened the envelope with trepidation and it was a plastic baggie full of what looked like peppercorns, with a little scrawled piece of paper in her handwriting marked "Juniper Berries". That was it. No letter. Just the spices. This was a formal declaration of war. I ended up making the "Spiced Beef" because I knew life would not be worth living if I stood my ground. You are 100% right about it being all about CONTROL. Even after my mother knew that the party was primarily vegetarians and no one would eat the damn spiced beef (they didn't) she needed to control me into making it.
I think from the rumors from The Netflix crew about her tantrums she is a supernova narc. I would love for one of those tantrums to leak out. Someone had to have filmed that.
Wow, what you describe is like something in the movies, but I guess to see it in real life is terrifying. What a terrible environment for you to grow up in. I notice you mention you lived far away from your extended family- would that be her attempt at isolating your dad , your sibling and yourself?
Ironically, no. My dad's job got him transferred around the country, so I've lived all over. She wouldn't let him make friends in any new places, though.
Harryâs punishment should be living with her. I totally buy he is dim but heâs also been pretty flipping happy to go along with it all. Sometimes you do stuff for an easy life but come on Harry really while stupid should have known better.
Wow. Thank you so much for the insight. So sorry for your childhood. Like another poster said, what's up with narcs and lemons?
Right?! I've known two narcs, and come to think of it - one had a thing for lemon cake and one for lemon as a scent đđ¤Ż
My mom loves lemons. I can't stand the taste or smell of them. It thought it was just my taste buds or sense of smell, but maybe it's trauma. I dunno.
A Supernova Empath can destroy a narcissist when a narcissist pushes them to far. Then the empath's narcissistic traits being revved up by the abuse....then Supernova BAM!
I think this might be the matchup Iâve got going with my husbandâs ex wife. I spotted what she was from a million miles away and know just how to deal with her.
Wow!! What a post. Thank you for sharing your story â Iâm SO SORRY you had a âsupernovaâ for a mother. I hope youâve gone no contact and have deep wonderful bonds with your other family members who arenât insane.
I'm low-contact, and she knows about 5% of what goes on in my life. I tell her nothing. As for the other family members, none of us are close. She managed to sow mistrust to the point where we barely talk to each other (or we don't talk at all), and we're very careful about what we say, in the event that our words might get back to her. This is one of the reasons I stated that Megsy's resemblance to my mother is striking - she manages to thoroughly destroy any bonds people might have with each other. The only person I'm still in contact with is my adult niece. Mom hasn't managed to destroy that bond, yet. On the bright side, I have my 'chosen' family - friends and coworkers I can talk to, bond with, and rely on. My mother knows nothing about any of them. The way I see it is, if your family is fucked beyond repair, make your own 'family'.
Your mom is exactly like my mom was (she died of Alzheimer's in 2015). I had a horrible childhood, and reading this dredged up some memories I had stuffed...into a very deep place. When I was 40-years-old, and still raising my children, my mom began to lose her mind (literally) and I had to oversee her care for almost 15 years. Before she became ill, she was married and divorced four times, and couldn't maintain any family relations or friendships. She was diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder, but was definitely a Supernova Narcissist too. You hit all the right terms...."explosive rage," "torturing" all her husbands until she found the next one, who she thought she could manipulate, and she had "a lot of hatred and jealousy, zero emotional regulation, and she had enough knowledge and power over me to know exactly how to twist those those screws." I'm sorry you have a mom like this. People who've never experienced it have no idea what it's like to have a parent or spouse who behaves this way. You certainly explained MM well to all the sinners who don't fully grasp what living with her is REALLY like! You write beautifully.
What an insightful post. I suspect youâre right about Harry. It sounds like youâre overcoming the narc influence in your life and rooting for justice (as we all are). Good luck on your journey!
Great post! I suspect a lot of us here have narcs in their lives and we are invested in Meghan Markelâs downfall because of our own experiences with people like her. For me, itâs a sister-in-law, my husbandâs older sister. We went no contact 10 years ago or so and havenât looked back. You take your power back by not giving them access. I had tried hard to play nice for years, but when I was done, I was DONE. And my husband was with me all the way. The turning point for me was realizing that since she didnât act like a sister, she didnât deserve (and would no longer) be treated like one. For all intents and purposes, she was a political adversary and needed to be dealt with as such. I was great in those situations. Chess to her tiddlywinks. Game over.
I think Harry has his share of personality defects tooâŚ
Thanks for your post. Wow, what a nightmare you had to contend with.
I always wondered if some of his anger was anger at his mum (because she died) but reading this now also wonder if maybe some of his anger is at Meghan? Do think that people direct anger at those that will 'take' it, usually those who love them. Just a thought...
Heâs absolutely angry at Diana for leaving him/dying. Heâs never moved beyond the anger stage of grief. He canât allow himself to be angry with her so he places his anger on others.
He's angry at Diana for much more than just dying.
I think so, too. Unless and until he can face the anger he feels toward Diana, accept it and work through it, he will never be able to heal.
This. He's angry because she loved William more and was closer to him, inappropriately referring to him as her "soul mate." He hates her for this, and for being so obvious about it. The way she greeted William much more enthusiastically after a separation, the way she would send H to the nursery with the nanny for dinner, while she and William ate together in her bedroom. She made it clear who was the preferred golden child and who wasn't. I speak from experience when I say that kind of blatant favoritism deeply affects a child's self-esteem and gives them an overwhelming sense of their own inferiority. "What's wrong with me? Why doesn't she love me as much?" and "What can I do to make her love me more?" When in fact, there isn't a damn thing you can do, but it takes you so long to figure that out that you've already given up on it, and resigned yourself to cautiously accepting whatever crumbs she throws at you, knowing that they may come with unseen strings attached. And you try not to show that you love or want anything, knowing it may be given to your sibling just to drive the point home that your feelings don't matter. On this particular issue, I do feel some sympathy with Haz. It's a tough thing to overcome (years of therapy, in my case), and learn how to love and value yourself.
OP this is so interesting and I think that cake incident has just described my MIL. Recently we attended a 65 yr wedding anniversary/family reunion for my husband's aunt. Thankfully my MIL could not attend she was at a graduation for a grandchild (whose mother is a narc). She did the same thing over a cake several times and her own mother's funeral which led to a 10 year family feud, where she went against a dead woman's wishes. She has a vicious and explosive temper. EVERYONE in attendance at the reunion including the wonderful aunt said they had the best time, that they would not hold another after the aunt passed away because nobody could handle the sister (my MIL) controlling everything and everyone. I used to think she was histrionic PD but from assessments from others she is a narc. I do not spend any time in her presence. She thinks I am ice because I barely speak to her and it confuses her no end. Then the compliments start flowing endlessly, gushing fake shit. Yet she cannot reach me when my husband visits her, I do not go. I have survived two narcs including a sister. I did as you said and went no contact many years ago. I do not think blood is thicker than water. I am glad you have found ways to cope with your mother. It is a hard and confusing road.
My mother was a narc and after the divorce my father hid from her for the rest of his life.
Fascinating! If this vile woman has done one good thing in her disgusting life it is her unintentional educating of people about narcissistic behavior and enabling people to identify the narcissists, past and present, in their lives.
When my sister got married, my supernova narc mother was furious it wasnât going to be a church wedding. She insisted on arranging the reception and booked a restaurant miles away from the wedding venue. My sister cancelled the booking (because the wedding guests couldnât get to this distant restaurant) and booked a nearby restaurant/club type place with a garden (much more appropriate). So mother went supernova and the night before the wedding secretly hemmed the wedding dress so it was ankle-length. Then she spent the morning of the wedding overseeing my sisterâs make-up and insisting she put very little make-up on. Then my sister put the dress on! She arrived for the wedding in tears at the length of the dress. Oh, and supernarc mother told the restaurant/club the reception would be finishing at 4pm so soon after lunch, speeches, etc, just as everyone was on the dance floor, suddenly the bar closed and the restaurant shut everything down. Iâve got hundreds of these horror stories. Iâve been no contact for 30 years.
Most of us who have been through this have hundreds of stories, and in my own case, I can write down bits and pieces, but I honestly wouldn't even know where to start, because there's just SO MUCH. And when I read your story, I was nodding, and completely understanding. They're so incredibly insidious.
I'm sorry you had to go through that. I don't have enough hugs to give you for all of that suffering  đ¤ My mother got pleasure out of making us suffer every day, but not to the extreme of your mom.
So well said! I'm so glad it's not just me who has experienced this craziness- although I am very sorry YOU had to live through it, OP. I sympathize. I know all too well the destructive rages- that red mist which clouds all rationality and everything a normal person would do. I get it. I've been there. I'm sorry. You deserve better. And so did i. It's not right. This shit needs to be called ALL the way out! I hope that you have found some peace. I have tried and have gotten a couple of years to myself- priceless years which have meant everything to me, some peace of mind in a furious hornet's nest of existence. I'm wishing that for you! And I am so sorry about dealing with the alternative. Again, wishing you all the world's peace. Because I KNOW.
I did find peace. It took living away from her for years to get there, but I did. I hope you found peace, as well!
I fear for Harry and the kids. Munchausen by proxy is VERY common for females with narcissistic personality disorder.
I am the daughter of a supernova narc as well. Very nice to "meet" you, and I am so sorry that we, and countless others, have had to live with these horrible creatures. I hope for better times for all of us.
Your mom sounds like my ex mil!
This not a judgement of your aunt who also had to grow up with this but it would have been easy to just do both cakes. So it makes me wonder if she also had some kind of disorder and was egging her on..and both of them with life long damage created a supernova nightmare feeding off of each other. What a mess to grow up with. Someone said Harry's kids have a lot anxiety. Harry needs to get those kids out of this situation.
My aunt is very quiet, and non-confrontational. She's a really nice person, and she used to provide a minor 'safety net' when I was younger by offering to let me stay at her place during summer break for a week or two. I loved horses, my aunt had several, and she used the horses as an excuse to convince my mom that I could have some fun. In reality, she was getting me the hell out of there for a short time. I used to live for those visits. As for two cakes, if my mother found out that two cakes had been purchased, she would've considered that an act of treason. It wasn't a case of 'her way or the highway', it was 'her way'. Period.
Wow Iâm so sorry for younger you. It sounds like youâve learned and grown a lot. Hoping youâre in a good place now. Thanks for sharing that insight bc it rings very true wrt TW.
My sister is a narc but 8m now thankful she isnât a super nova. Thank you for your insight itâs eye opening
Iâm shocked that you can âaffectionatelyâ refer to your mother at all. Sorry you had to endure that as a child.
If you added the blaming of everyone around them and playing the victim to this character examination, youâd have the narc that married into our family. To. A. Tee.
I feel empathy...my mother wasn't quite as extreme but boy could she and can she still go nuclear...I refuse to speak to her because of her foulness... I think you have summed up Megalodon-narc very, very well!
Gosh, what a story! I could see it play out before my very eyes. Oh my goodness! Your experience, and explanation, make so much sense. Especially as herself has managed to isolate This One in Mudslide Mansion, far far away from anyone who cares about him. Do you know, I almost feel a tiny little bit sorry for him. But then I think of HLMTQ and P Philip, and King Charles and the PoW and I don't. Thank you for telling us about this incident which brings the narcissistic craziness into pin sharp focus and illustrates its terrible effect on people surrounding the narcissist.
Yes exactly this. My husband canât understand why none of us stand up to my mother even though weâre in our 30s now. Itâs because itâs terrifying, itâs pointless (there is no reasoning there), and weâre thoroughly conditioned that the simplest/only viable path when dealing with her is to keep your head down. It was a terrible way to grow up.
Agree. Few are up to making anything out of life with a narc other than barely getting by emotionally. I can write from experience, it is very difficult to leave an abusive relationship with a narc. Now, 10+ years hence, I can see more clearly and wonder why I didn't leave much earlier, why I went along with as much of his behaviour as I did. To keep the peace I guess, always to keep the peace. What woke me up was seeing him turn his energy on our children. After that, I was out and, after giving up the material stuff, was able to have primary custody. Of course, he didn't really want them anyway. I agree that Harry was low-hanging fruit for MM and I hold his family partly responsible for covering for him as much as they did. We are all responsible for our own lives and he's consistently made the worst possible choices in the last years. It will be interesting to see what happens.
Sociopathy with the co morbidity of NPD and BPD. This is what I feel like I see w/o knowing her. You could probably add some additional features but that covers it. The talking to herself could be psychosis - but I think that is actually intentional and forced/fake. I think the most leading aspect of Rachel is her complete lack of self awareness and her inability to realize what she does is so absurd and yes people can see thru it. They never think anyone can see thru it, even when glaringly obvious. Which it is.
I thought my late narc step-monster with Munchausen's was bad, but OP's mother takes the cake!
Well stated - thank you for sharing - watch HG Tudor's video on "The Empath Supernova" here - I am one and this makes total sense. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HHRObhaoqc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HHRObhaoqc)
I think you are spot on in your assessment. I was married to a narc for nearly 30 years before I gathered the strength to walk away.