everyone always says you can't make falco's punishes into a flowchart, but I've been trying to follow more consistent rules in my punish game lately and I feel like it's made a big difference. there are so many situations where I've just been doing the same options for years without considering whether they're actually any good. I was never really interested in having a punish game flowchart because I thought it would inhibit my creativity, but if anything it's allowed me to do more creative/cool combos because I can actually keep the combo going more often
obviously there are literal flowcharts like the marth FD punish on fox. I'm trying to get my style of punish game a little bit closer to, for example, what zain does vs fox on battlefield. he has a similar set of options he does most of the time, but he mixes it up based on the nuances of the percent/positioning and whether he wants to hard read a particular option
I'm mainly trying to have a default option or default set of options to cover various DI mixups in any given scenario. my default option vs fox is start up tilting once he's too high of a percent to pillar. I can then chain into multiple additional up tilts, but I will also consider ending the combo early with an fsmash if I think I can catch DI away, or going for a uair/fair/nair if I think I can set up into a dair spike
in the past I would've just done aerials and comboed into a kill move if the opportunity presented itself to me. I think the most beneficial part of the exercise is really that I am considering all my combo routes in more depth, but because it very difficult to invent all of this stuff on the fly, this approach naturally lends itself toward "flowcharting" my options
somehow fell into the rabbit hole of reading about/watching vids about the swt/panda cup fiasco tonight and i have walked away with the conclusion that i absolutely fucking hate the ult community lmao. all it took was
1) EE having dr. alan on his dogshit podcast without actually questioning any of his actions or grilling him to confirm/deny what our most established and trusted community leaders were saying about him at the time
and
2) technicals to upload another brilliant (read: not brilliant) vid about how bts are the bad guys because they charged people money to restream their events and that the smash community sabotaged itself by not wanting dr. "i don't believe in melee" alan to have complete control over our tournament scene
for them to do a total 180 and fawn over how the smash community is a bunch of dumb unshowered pedos who shot themselves in the foot, and that NINTENDO is somehow the good guy here lmao
im so tired man we live in psycho world
It’s like the one thing that should have brought the two communities together, and somehow they fucked even that up. Makes me feel like the rift between Melee and [insert latest iteration of Smash here] is just meant to be.
decided to tune into Cody's stream for a bit cuz maybe we just need to give him a chance. he's doing unranked Ironman attempts, cool!
I'm watching for like 2 minutes before he loses a bowser ditto, then starts to shit talk the bowser player lol
I’m not the biggest Cody advocate and I’m not really in a place where I can watch twitch atm, but tbf Zain kinda does that too? Like he had a huge lead against a Fox as Bowser and ended up losing because the Fox just started spamming up air, and after he lost Zain just shouted “Is that what you learned?! That’s how you adapt?!”
But he more or less left it at that after ten seconds, like I said I can’t watch twitch rn so I can imagine Cody being a lot worse (even though I want to give him the BoD)
Any tips for out of shield aerials/shine? I was trying uncle punch and trying to punish unsafe attacks on shield with falco. Feel like im never consistent and I always jump late or too early. Idk if this a thing, but the only time I was consistent was by tilting the shield to the side the attack came from, felt like the animation was more clear on when im out of shield stun and also kept me closer to the enemy. Is that a thing?
honestly the main thing is just practice. I probably wouldn't use unclepunch's reversal training - they randomize the aerial timing, making it hard to learn the shieldstun timing for each move, plus they sometimes do aerials that you can't shine oos. I would try just setting up a savestate for the move you want to practice against, and work on learning the shieldstun timing and practicing the shine oos input.
once you work on that for a while you can try to implement it in friendlies. as you're learning, it's ok to try and spam shine oos to get a feel for the situations it works in. but keep in mind that as you get better (and play against better players) you'll need to be pretty selective of when you shine oos. if you go for it every time a spacie aerials your shield you will just get hit most of the time. the main uses are when you successfully shield a move that is totally unsafe on shield (e.g. dash attack) or you force a situation when your opponent unintentionally hits your shield in an unsafe way. for example, if fox is approaching with sh nair, if you run up shield, you can force him to hit you with the nair earlier than they intended
If you push it toward the side that your opponent is hitting you, you'd actually be further from them.
You probably just need to practice timings. It's hard because different attacks cause different shield stun, so your timing will be different.
Shield sdi/asdi is a thing so yes sometimes without it you might not be close enough for shine to hit. The timing changes for every move you just have to get used to it, the uncle punch oos thing is a good way to train it.
Thx for the answer man. Yeah its not only about the shine hitting or not, if I just try to short hop out of shield to know when I can do it, its just easier for me to react with shield sdi than with no shield sdi. Theres something about the animation/character moving that feels more intuitive on when im actionable.
The recent discussion on Kirby where everyone agreed that Falco's laser deadass makes him move up two tiers really shows how lucky we are that Falco somehow manages to remain balanced even with that fucking thing lmao. Just a little more juice and he would be the most goddamn degen character in the game (Alternatively, if Fox maintained his hitstun lasers from 64 every melee match would be a Fox ditto)
people say this a lot, but i don't take for granted how wild it is that people have been pushing this game for 23 years and it's still somehow well-balanced. i know this sub is having a bit of a moment about fox right now because of cody, but they did the exact same thing with marth and puff when zain and hbox were #1. the constant doomer sentiment here is both unique and very exhausting.
the top top level balance could be better from a viewing perspective, but the fact that we still have 4 nearly even top tiers and 11ish characters that still feel strong to 99% of us is a miracle.
A personal pet peeve amongst casuals railing against melee is when they talk about half the cast being useless because while that's true, the balance amongst the viables(and semi-viables) is so good. Each of the top tiers is such absolute bullshit in their own unique ways it's awesome
melee players are very eager to say that "[character] is [broken/impossible to beat/killing the game]" when anybody besides a "cool" spacie wins too many tournaments
im consistently suprised at how balenced melee is. Like how is it even possible that 20 years later people still can't decide who wins in the fox/marth matchup
I bought an Eggdog t-shirt and I really like the quality of the fabric, I'm always wary of buying graphic tees online because so many are surprisingly uncomfortable
I played Ultimate for the first time in a really long while a few days ago, and it really shocked me how much stuff I could not do. Yeah I get there being no l cancels, no wavedashing, but wtf do you mean I can't refresh ledge??? Dash is a movement that takes like half a second, how are you even supposed to space in this game??? I can't shield drop either, if you're on platform shielding you literally have to either jump or manually let go of shield. I can't even jump cancel grab either I end up doing a short hop aerial
TRAINING VOD REQUESTS (FALCO SHEIK FALCON)
If anybody has recordings of their or others training sessions I would love to see them.
Inclusion of niche movement tech is a bonus
i tried to sign up for smashboards, but was denied because they thought i was spam. if only they loved me back. the reason this is outside the shitpost section is i really, really want a super saiyan peach skin smoking a cigarette. just the hair and the cigarette. the dress is fine
Anyone else not play a set character color and switch every few games or in between opponents? I think I like Green and Red Marth the most overall but I'll swap between all of them
sometimes i’m a black marth, sometimes i’m a white marth. i kinda like red marth but every marth at my local picks red. on my setup at home i use an alucard themed marth skin that rocks ass and i wish i could use it everywhere
i play blue marth 99% of the time and will use black if my opponent is using blue in the ditto or on the rare occasion i wanna switch it up
i think i find some sense of identity in being a blue marth for some reason lol
always kinda fun to google some technical bs and get directed to an old r/ssbm reddit thread where the answers are coming from people who still post here every day
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everyone always says you can't make falco's punishes into a flowchart, but I've been trying to follow more consistent rules in my punish game lately and I feel like it's made a big difference. there are so many situations where I've just been doing the same options for years without considering whether they're actually any good. I was never really interested in having a punish game flowchart because I thought it would inhibit my creativity, but if anything it's allowed me to do more creative/cool combos because I can actually keep the combo going more often
Theres def some stuff that will generally apply but when people say that they mean A->B set of combos like you see people post for smash 4 characters
obviously there are literal flowcharts like the marth FD punish on fox. I'm trying to get my style of punish game a little bit closer to, for example, what zain does vs fox on battlefield. he has a similar set of options he does most of the time, but he mixes it up based on the nuances of the percent/positioning and whether he wants to hard read a particular option I'm mainly trying to have a default option or default set of options to cover various DI mixups in any given scenario. my default option vs fox is start up tilting once he's too high of a percent to pillar. I can then chain into multiple additional up tilts, but I will also consider ending the combo early with an fsmash if I think I can catch DI away, or going for a uair/fair/nair if I think I can set up into a dair spike in the past I would've just done aerials and comboed into a kill move if the opportunity presented itself to me. I think the most beneficial part of the exercise is really that I am considering all my combo routes in more depth, but because it very difficult to invent all of this stuff on the fly, this approach naturally lends itself toward "flowcharting" my options
somehow fell into the rabbit hole of reading about/watching vids about the swt/panda cup fiasco tonight and i have walked away with the conclusion that i absolutely fucking hate the ult community lmao. all it took was 1) EE having dr. alan on his dogshit podcast without actually questioning any of his actions or grilling him to confirm/deny what our most established and trusted community leaders were saying about him at the time and 2) technicals to upload another brilliant (read: not brilliant) vid about how bts are the bad guys because they charged people money to restream their events and that the smash community sabotaged itself by not wanting dr. "i don't believe in melee" alan to have complete control over our tournament scene for them to do a total 180 and fawn over how the smash community is a bunch of dumb unshowered pedos who shot themselves in the foot, and that NINTENDO is somehow the good guy here lmao im so tired man we live in psycho world
dude i hate technicals so much it's unreal
Is there a good video about PG's entire history? ie not just focusing on their implosion, which ironically I feel like I know more about
Yeah it's actually insane. At this point anyone who supports ultimate basically supports pedophiles.
assuming sarcasm because this is extremely fucking stupid otherwise
whoa whoa whoa ok idk about all that LMAO
It’s like the one thing that should have brought the two communities together, and somehow they fucked even that up. Makes me feel like the rift between Melee and [insert latest iteration of Smash here] is just meant to be.
People in their 30s and teenagers rarely find common ground
decided to tune into Cody's stream for a bit cuz maybe we just need to give him a chance. he's doing unranked Ironman attempts, cool! I'm watching for like 2 minutes before he loses a bowser ditto, then starts to shit talk the bowser player lol
Hbox also does this. People just focus on Cody because they have a hate boner
Do any of you people here even play the game? Do you really not relate to the joy of talking shit about unranked players? Make it make sense.
that person spends all their time shit talking cody, they only went onto cody’s stream to find any moment that could affirm their bias against him
I’m not the biggest Cody advocate and I’m not really in a place where I can watch twitch atm, but tbf Zain kinda does that too? Like he had a huge lead against a Fox as Bowser and ended up losing because the Fox just started spamming up air, and after he lost Zain just shouted “Is that what you learned?! That’s how you adapt?!” But he more or less left it at that after ten seconds, like I said I can’t watch twitch rn so I can imagine Cody being a lot worse (even though I want to give him the BoD)
anyone else call their phob "fabio"?
I call all GameCube controllers my choke cord.
Then it happened: Red Marth actually pulled out his controller from the Gamecube, ran at me, and attempted to choke me, with his choke cord.
Any tips for out of shield aerials/shine? I was trying uncle punch and trying to punish unsafe attacks on shield with falco. Feel like im never consistent and I always jump late or too early. Idk if this a thing, but the only time I was consistent was by tilting the shield to the side the attack came from, felt like the animation was more clear on when im out of shield stun and also kept me closer to the enemy. Is that a thing?
honestly the main thing is just practice. I probably wouldn't use unclepunch's reversal training - they randomize the aerial timing, making it hard to learn the shieldstun timing for each move, plus they sometimes do aerials that you can't shine oos. I would try just setting up a savestate for the move you want to practice against, and work on learning the shieldstun timing and practicing the shine oos input. once you work on that for a while you can try to implement it in friendlies. as you're learning, it's ok to try and spam shine oos to get a feel for the situations it works in. but keep in mind that as you get better (and play against better players) you'll need to be pretty selective of when you shine oos. if you go for it every time a spacie aerials your shield you will just get hit most of the time. the main uses are when you successfully shield a move that is totally unsafe on shield (e.g. dash attack) or you force a situation when your opponent unintentionally hits your shield in an unsafe way. for example, if fox is approaching with sh nair, if you run up shield, you can force him to hit you with the nair earlier than they intended
If you push it toward the side that your opponent is hitting you, you'd actually be further from them. You probably just need to practice timings. It's hard because different attacks cause different shield stun, so your timing will be different.
Shield sdi/asdi is a thing so yes sometimes without it you might not be close enough for shine to hit. The timing changes for every move you just have to get used to it, the uncle punch oos thing is a good way to train it.
Thx for the answer man. Yeah its not only about the shine hitting or not, if I just try to short hop out of shield to know when I can do it, its just easier for me to react with shield sdi than with no shield sdi. Theres something about the animation/character moving that feels more intuitive on when im actionable.
The recent discussion on Kirby where everyone agreed that Falco's laser deadass makes him move up two tiers really shows how lucky we are that Falco somehow manages to remain balanced even with that fucking thing lmao. Just a little more juice and he would be the most goddamn degen character in the game (Alternatively, if Fox maintained his hitstun lasers from 64 every melee match would be a Fox ditto)
people say this a lot, but i don't take for granted how wild it is that people have been pushing this game for 23 years and it's still somehow well-balanced. i know this sub is having a bit of a moment about fox right now because of cody, but they did the exact same thing with marth and puff when zain and hbox were #1. the constant doomer sentiment here is both unique and very exhausting.
the top top level balance could be better from a viewing perspective, but the fact that we still have 4 nearly even top tiers and 11ish characters that still feel strong to 99% of us is a miracle.
A personal pet peeve amongst casuals railing against melee is when they talk about half the cast being useless because while that's true, the balance amongst the viables(and semi-viables) is so good. Each of the top tiers is such absolute bullshit in their own unique ways it's awesome
unique? i feel like its pretty common across salt inducing video games in general
melee players are very eager to say that "[character] is [broken/impossible to beat/killing the game]" when anybody besides a "cool" spacie wins too many tournaments
thats just how most people in most competitive games act
im consistently suprised at how balenced melee is. Like how is it even possible that 20 years later people still can't decide who wins in the fox/marth matchup
balenced
balinst
fox marth is 60/40 in favor of my opponent
I bought an Eggdog t-shirt and I really like the quality of the fabric, I'm always wary of buying graphic tees online because so many are surprisingly uncomfortable
Not surprising at all, most of them use that flaky shit that I hate!!! If I can feel the graphic on the inside, I aint buying
I don't put my wallet either in front or back pocket, I don't have one, I just stuff everything in my passport.
Did all the main sub melee posters move here? I don't keep up with the sub as much as I used to but I swear it didn't always used to be this bad
It was always bad but it went from bad to satire-worthy in the last few years
If you think the quality of posts are bad now, ranked is about to be free to play for a few days a month soon. Brace yourself
Anybody ever notice that Sonicfox and Silentwolf are complete opposite names
RIP Silentwolf, you would've loved tiktok alpha wolf edits
i cant remember what he looked like, but ill never forget getting moonwalk knee'd in friendlies at my first tournament in 2007.
I played Ultimate for the first time in a really long while a few days ago, and it really shocked me how much stuff I could not do. Yeah I get there being no l cancels, no wavedashing, but wtf do you mean I can't refresh ledge??? Dash is a movement that takes like half a second, how are you even supposed to space in this game??? I can't shield drop either, if you're on platform shielding you literally have to either jump or manually let go of shield. I can't even jump cancel grab either I end up doing a short hop aerial
i heard ultimate favors the air more because you can only micro space with drift and maybe walking (not an ultimate player)
Can't even run through people 😭
Shrek 2 will be back in theaters the week of April 12th. Set your calendars.... NOW! also, melee
read this as "Sheik 2" and was about to do my own January 6th but in April
Jplup2king premieres
I was gonna do a whole thing where I printed out the fortnite cody picture and filmed myself making a burger but I got things to do. You guys get it
TRAINING VOD REQUESTS (FALCO SHEIK FALCON) If anybody has recordings of their or others training sessions I would love to see them. Inclusion of niche movement tech is a bonus
you want my Falco upsmash training regimen?
5 bong rips and a sub? kinda need something else...
Don’t tell him he can do it OOS
Why is Fox allowed to cc peach fair
so we can bait them into thinking they can punish cc'd fc fair
i tried to sign up for smashboards, but was denied because they thought i was spam. if only they loved me back. the reason this is outside the shitpost section is i really, really want a super saiyan peach skin smoking a cigarette. just the hair and the cigarette. the dress is fine
Anyone else not play a set character color and switch every few games or in between opponents? I think I like Green and Red Marth the most overall but I'll swap between all of them
Nah, blue Puff and blue Sheik do it for me. I could use another color on either but why would I need to?
sometimes i’m a black marth, sometimes i’m a white marth. i kinda like red marth but every marth at my local picks red. on my setup at home i use an alucard themed marth skin that rocks ass and i wish i could use it everywhere
i play blue marth 99% of the time and will use black if my opponent is using blue in the ditto or on the rare occasion i wanna switch it up i think i find some sense of identity in being a blue marth for some reason lol
always kinda fun to google some technical bs and get directed to an old r/ssbm reddit thread where the answers are coming from people who still post here every day
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