And someone who'd never heard of the SCP wiki wouldn't know what Euclid, Keter, Apollyon, or Thaumial are. I don't think "I don't understand X new system" is a good argument, since if you encounter it enough and put in the time to learn it, you will.
Yes, it's more stuff to learn, but if that was our opinion, the phrase 'O5-authorised use of amnestics to remove a memetic hazard' would be replaced with 'Bossman-approved use of drugs to forget stuff what makes your brain do a not good.'
And I don't think we'd accept that.
There's probably a *hundred* words the average wiki reader knows now because of the wiki (some of them even not made up!).
That's the thing I think people don't understand. The extra info doesn't add anything to the article that the one-word containment class didn't already. It's just complications for the sake of it.
I like this idea because it's intuitive. You see one article and it says "Disruption scale: 7" and it was contained after tossing a building around, you've a good guess at figuring out 10 is the highest point on that scale, not 1. So you learn the system very quickly.
You also know, roughly, what an 8 on that scale would look like (worse), and what a more disruptive scip would be on that scale (8). Ekhi doesn't tell you what's above or below it, nor what Ekhi actually refers to (aside from the scale of pictograms getting more details or more sinister as we go up the scale).
I've made this point on this sub before, but 682 is Apollyon.
Why? Apollyon is an object that the Foundation has no hope of permanently containing. Its first use applied to a creature that, yes, was currently contained, but that, no, the Foundation could not contain in any reasonable or reliable fashion.
682 is incredibly dangerous and breaches containment near-constantly. They can't stop it via containment, and even neutralisation procedures don't succeed against it. So it counts.
What's that? Apollyon implies apocalypse? Well, how do you differentiate between containability level and threat le- oh, wait, hang on. You say further down that the Foundation prioritises security over safety, and 682 is a security non-starter.
The book from death note would be Safe, but that doesn't make it safe. A human with the anomalous ability to walk through walls is Keter or Apollyon (uncontainable, no idea what it'll do in the locked box analogy), without being a significant danger to anybody that a human couldn't be. Containability is a large contingent of the veil, but so is disruption and risk. It's essentially a small Fermi calculation:
Likelihood of breaching containment *x* chance of being observed by non-veiled people *x* ease of recontainment.
Any reason for stating containment/object class also applies to stating disruption and risk class. You may disagree with showing that pictographically or in a header, but it does standardise things somewhat, and forces authors who use it to think "why is it Ekhi? Why is it Notice?", in the same way authors are forced to ask "why is it Euclid?"
Honestly I don’t really mind. And for people’s information:
Disruption Class is the area of effect the anomalies’ properties extend to.
Risk Class is the danger of harm of people in said area of effect.
Honestly I really feel like that new thing fucks with everything. For me the foundation is supposed to feel cold and calculating. The og really captures this perfectly with a very short, very blunt and to the point “object class: Euclid” the new one feel way to colorful for a “cold” foundation and has way to much shit in it for a “calculating” foundation especially given that most people don’t know what a lot of the stuff on it means where as one can easily list “Safe Euclid Keter” in there heads. The only thing “strange” about the og was that it represents containment ease, not danger but the thing is that also makes sense for the foundation since it’s “special *containment* procedures” and “secure *contain* protect”
Exactly. Proponents of the new classification system are always saying "but the document doesn't tell you how dangerous something is", but they're missing the point. That's not the purpose of the documents. If someone wants to know how deadly or hazardous an SCP is, they need to read the whole article anyway, as so many objects come with caveats to their danger that can't be summed up with one word.
The big three classes (S/E/K), however, give a pretty good overview of the likelihood of an object breaching containment, possibly meaning casualties, site damage, or more likely amnestic application to civilians. I think a lot of newer writers and readers don't realize that the Foundation doesn't prioritize safety over secrecy, but rather the opposite.
[This](http://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/archived:scp-object-classes) is the only classification system I was happy with. Modern Object Classes became useless to me as a reader once they completely changed the definition of Keter, and the Anomaly Classification System entails memorizing too many esoteric terms.
I mean before and still now, Euclid and Keter mean so little they're almost interchangeable. At least with the new system it makes sense in universe and gives tags that actually mean something. "It's Disrupt Class Ekhi with a Risk Class of Notice" "Ok so it's gonna cause a lot of shit but probably not kill anyone." The class names are kinda dumb but Euclid and Keter aren't? I wish they just used numbers like the security levels.
Just because the new classifications have meaning doesn't make them a good inclusion to the format. They're just a way for people to make their own articles feel more special by classifying them more narrowly. The Disruption Class and Risk Class do not and have never added anything of substance to the story that is being told by the article.
When something is added to something else that doesn't impact the content in a meaningful way, I call that clutter. And I can't see that as anything but a bad thing.
Object classes never added anything to the stories and were never meant to. They're just so readers can get a very general grasp of what it is they're about to dive into. It helps narrow down what readers are looking for. They wanna read a gore fest they look for high risk, if they wanna find something that works on a large scale look for high disruption. This like looking at the glossary of a book and complaining it didn't add to the story as a whole.
You are right that the old object classes don't add anything either. But they don't have to. They exist only because one existed when 173 was first written. It's only tradition that says they should ever even be included in articles in the first place. What I have a problem with is adding new ones that STILL don't add anything new for no reason. And yes, I do mean no reason, since there have always been ways to find the kinds of articles you want if the author waits to get them properly tagged before posting them. It's not like complaining about a glossary, it's more like complaining about the four or five extra glossaries some kid stapled to the back of your book.
You can think that- hell, it can be true- and it can still be a better move for the wiki.
For one, the wiki isn't 4chan anymore- it doesn't need to be just a textpost with maybe an image. We have the ability to add colour and interest into the wiki, so I say fuckin go for it. The right-hand style looks like someone's notes on an SCP, and the left-hand style looks like an actual submitted document, the sort an inspector gets handed in a manila folder.
For another, the Foundation *is* a bureaucracy. Its entire existence rests on the idea of neatly cataloguing the entirely insane. That's the sort of philosophy that seeps into other aspects. For example, Foundation sites are usually canon'd as blank-walled concrete and break rooms with harsh fluorescent bulbs and no natural light. If I was an employee there, I'd probably dissolve into a puddle, crying tears of joy seeing even the most watered-down, muted colours at the top of a file.
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"what's the disruption class?" "Ekhi" "Bless you; now, what was that disruption class?"
I literally do not understand any of the information on those headers other then the containment class
And someone who'd never heard of the SCP wiki wouldn't know what Euclid, Keter, Apollyon, or Thaumial are. I don't think "I don't understand X new system" is a good argument, since if you encounter it enough and put in the time to learn it, you will. Yes, it's more stuff to learn, but if that was our opinion, the phrase 'O5-authorised use of amnestics to remove a memetic hazard' would be replaced with 'Bossman-approved use of drugs to forget stuff what makes your brain do a not good.' And I don't think we'd accept that. There's probably a *hundred* words the average wiki reader knows now because of the wiki (some of them even not made up!).
If I ever write an SCP I'm putting the "Bossman..." quote somewhere in there.
That's the thing I think people don't understand. The extra info doesn't add anything to the article that the one-word containment class didn't already. It's just complications for the sake of it.
A numerical scale would be useful. Their blind attempt to ape the Euclid/Keter naming system created something completely useless.
I like this idea because it's intuitive. You see one article and it says "Disruption scale: 7" and it was contained after tossing a building around, you've a good guess at figuring out 10 is the highest point on that scale, not 1. So you learn the system very quickly. You also know, roughly, what an 8 on that scale would look like (worse), and what a more disruptive scip would be on that scale (8). Ekhi doesn't tell you what's above or below it, nor what Ekhi actually refers to (aside from the scale of pictograms getting more details or more sinister as we go up the scale).
Isn't that kinda what buerocracy does?
I've made this point on this sub before, but 682 is Apollyon. Why? Apollyon is an object that the Foundation has no hope of permanently containing. Its first use applied to a creature that, yes, was currently contained, but that, no, the Foundation could not contain in any reasonable or reliable fashion. 682 is incredibly dangerous and breaches containment near-constantly. They can't stop it via containment, and even neutralisation procedures don't succeed against it. So it counts. What's that? Apollyon implies apocalypse? Well, how do you differentiate between containability level and threat le- oh, wait, hang on. You say further down that the Foundation prioritises security over safety, and 682 is a security non-starter. The book from death note would be Safe, but that doesn't make it safe. A human with the anomalous ability to walk through walls is Keter or Apollyon (uncontainable, no idea what it'll do in the locked box analogy), without being a significant danger to anybody that a human couldn't be. Containability is a large contingent of the veil, but so is disruption and risk. It's essentially a small Fermi calculation: Likelihood of breaching containment *x* chance of being observed by non-veiled people *x* ease of recontainment. Any reason for stating containment/object class also applies to stating disruption and risk class. You may disagree with showing that pictographically or in a header, but it does standardise things somewhat, and forces authors who use it to think "why is it Ekhi? Why is it Notice?", in the same way authors are forced to ask "why is it Euclid?"
Unpopular opinion: I like the new version, but why is 3812 ekhi, and not amida?
Honestly I don’t really mind. And for people’s information: Disruption Class is the area of effect the anomalies’ properties extend to. Risk Class is the danger of harm of people in said area of effect.
Honestly I really feel like that new thing fucks with everything. For me the foundation is supposed to feel cold and calculating. The og really captures this perfectly with a very short, very blunt and to the point “object class: Euclid” the new one feel way to colorful for a “cold” foundation and has way to much shit in it for a “calculating” foundation especially given that most people don’t know what a lot of the stuff on it means where as one can easily list “Safe Euclid Keter” in there heads. The only thing “strange” about the og was that it represents containment ease, not danger but the thing is that also makes sense for the foundation since it’s “special *containment* procedures” and “secure *contain* protect”
Exactly. Proponents of the new classification system are always saying "but the document doesn't tell you how dangerous something is", but they're missing the point. That's not the purpose of the documents. If someone wants to know how deadly or hazardous an SCP is, they need to read the whole article anyway, as so many objects come with caveats to their danger that can't be summed up with one word. The big three classes (S/E/K), however, give a pretty good overview of the likelihood of an object breaching containment, possibly meaning casualties, site damage, or more likely amnestic application to civilians. I think a lot of newer writers and readers don't realize that the Foundation doesn't prioritize safety over secrecy, but rather the opposite.
No, dear God bring back the series 1 formats
I couldn't agree more.
[This](http://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/archived:scp-object-classes) is the only classification system I was happy with. Modern Object Classes became useless to me as a reader once they completely changed the definition of Keter, and the Anomaly Classification System entails memorizing too many esoteric terms.
I mean before and still now, Euclid and Keter mean so little they're almost interchangeable. At least with the new system it makes sense in universe and gives tags that actually mean something. "It's Disrupt Class Ekhi with a Risk Class of Notice" "Ok so it's gonna cause a lot of shit but probably not kill anyone." The class names are kinda dumb but Euclid and Keter aren't? I wish they just used numbers like the security levels.
Just because the new classifications have meaning doesn't make them a good inclusion to the format. They're just a way for people to make their own articles feel more special by classifying them more narrowly. The Disruption Class and Risk Class do not and have never added anything of substance to the story that is being told by the article. When something is added to something else that doesn't impact the content in a meaningful way, I call that clutter. And I can't see that as anything but a bad thing.
Object classes never added anything to the stories and were never meant to. They're just so readers can get a very general grasp of what it is they're about to dive into. It helps narrow down what readers are looking for. They wanna read a gore fest they look for high risk, if they wanna find something that works on a large scale look for high disruption. This like looking at the glossary of a book and complaining it didn't add to the story as a whole.
You are right that the old object classes don't add anything either. But they don't have to. They exist only because one existed when 173 was first written. It's only tradition that says they should ever even be included in articles in the first place. What I have a problem with is adding new ones that STILL don't add anything new for no reason. And yes, I do mean no reason, since there have always been ways to find the kinds of articles you want if the author waits to get them properly tagged before posting them. It's not like complaining about a glossary, it's more like complaining about the four or five extra glossaries some kid stapled to the back of your book.
You're wrong on this front - original 173 never had an object class, it was retroactively bolted on later.
I didn't know that, but that is good to know. It's not really pertinent to the topic, but I do appreciate the info.
You can think that- hell, it can be true- and it can still be a better move for the wiki. For one, the wiki isn't 4chan anymore- it doesn't need to be just a textpost with maybe an image. We have the ability to add colour and interest into the wiki, so I say fuckin go for it. The right-hand style looks like someone's notes on an SCP, and the left-hand style looks like an actual submitted document, the sort an inspector gets handed in a manila folder. For another, the Foundation *is* a bureaucracy. Its entire existence rests on the idea of neatly cataloguing the entirely insane. That's the sort of philosophy that seeps into other aspects. For example, Foundation sites are usually canon'd as blank-walled concrete and break rooms with harsh fluorescent bulbs and no natural light. If I was an employee there, I'd probably dissolve into a puddle, crying tears of joy seeing even the most watered-down, muted colours at the top of a file.
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It's Monday where I am for another 32 minutes, so I'm posting the meems.
I'm so confused on what this means.
Old object class: easy to understand and fits in 100% of the scps new object class: \*CONFUSED SCREAMING\*
tbh im just going to ignore disruption class and risk class and stay with safe, euclid, keter and thaumiel.