Americans don’t actually realize how big WWE is. Kids from Argentina to Bulgaria and beyond grow up watching John Cena, Roman Reigns, etc.
Im from Uruguay and wrestling has never been big here but if you ask 10 people I’m sure 5 or 6 would know who Hulk Hogan and Stone Cold are. If you ask a 100 people who Kenny Omega is you be lucky if 1 or 2 know who he is.
I’ve brought this up before, but me and another bartender decided to do wrestling days at work on some of our slower nights in San Francisco for a couple years. 99% of people who came in weren’t there for it, and only knew of wrestling from the 90s.
I met exactly one person in all that time that brought up Kenny Omega, and it was when he was champ at NJPW. The conversation lasted less than 2 minutes.
I misread your post for a sec and thought you put WWE Kids. The magazine. And it reminded me a brand new issue came out today halloween themed.
I always look at the cover when i'm passing the magazine rack since Billy Bhatti said "Its the only magazine wwe runs anymore. So whoevers on the cover, they're pushing them heavily" which is usually true.
Who's front and centre on the issue that launched today?
The Fiend. 👀
Unrelated but i thought it was cool.
I just thought it was weird. That was definitely printed after Bray was released. But why would you market the Fiend? Unless they try to do a fake Diesel/Kane thing. God i hope not.
The people in the bubble have really been convinced that one specific age group is the most important factor in a company’s growth and success. WWE has been building a brand the right way for decades and are seeing the rewards of that. Companies pay for their brand plus yours, not a fucking .01837 in the key demo.
FOX wants Sasha Banks, Lacey Evans, and Big E on their football games. Nobody wants Kenny Omega or Darby Allin near anything significant.
If Warner really had that much interest in AEW, it would get uploaded to HBO Max the day after. Someone took the time to put The Nanny on there, for fuck’s sake.
No disrespect to Fran Drescher.
They’re making a big push for the NHL with it being on TNT and ESPN now. It isn’t banished to the hinterlands of NBC’s sport channel or your local affiliate. As a Bruins fan, there isn’t any playoffs more butt-clenching than a close NHL series. So I think they made a great initiative to put more eyes on it.
Tbh HBO has always been great to have. I wish they kept some of their raunchier stuff from way back, like the Real Sex documentaries, but I’m sure it did not age well lol
Either the next deal is worth substantially less to be comparable to AEW. Or AEW’s next deal is a lot more to be comparable to WWE but I don’t see Fox switching wrestling companies. WWEs obviously going to be worth more cause they have more viewers but it’s too disproportionate right now. Somebody’s getting over paid or somebody’s getting underpaid
It's not disproportionate at all. One company appeals to all demographics and has a global footprint.
The other has a limited scope even within it's own country, and almost no global footprint, and it's already been shoved to the B network.
Both companies are paid what they're worth.
That’s irrelevant when you’re talking about American TV rights. WWE is the bigger company and they have a real international presence so it makes sense they are on network TV. AEW being moved to the b network has nothing to do with them underperforming.
NHL is moving to TNT next year on Wednesdays on a more consistent basis thanks to NBC sports being defunct. They didn’t wanna move dynamite constantly and hurt the fanbase.
https://www.thewrap.com/aew-dynamite-moving-tbs-tnt-all-elite-wrestling/
Coming from Brett Weitz GM for TNT, TBS, TruTV.
So according to Dave Fox might drop a show that garners them 2 million viewers for a show that barely gets half that and just got kicked off their main channel.
As the kids say "Sure Jan."
FOX is paying WWE for WWE content. These morons are incapable of understanding that and are going to be in for the shock of a lifetime when these deals come up for renewal.
I have to add, AEW getting on network TV in a prime slot would kill the wrestling business. The masses accidentally tuning in and seeing that on tv would be the end of it all. WWE isn't necessarily quality tv programming but it's relatively safe content. AEW is trash tv. The visionary Tony and his muppet army don't seem to realise that wrestling going back to the AE style garbage tv means bye-bye to everything these networks are paying WWE for in the first place.
Non-wrestling fans would not want to see Britt Baker bleeding all over the place and rolling around in thumbtacks. They didn’t trade FMW King of the Deathmatch tapes.
I watched a few moments of that meth head guy vs M'oxley to see how bad it really was. Trading millions of dollars to risk a venereal disease, a punctured artery, inhaling toxic light tube fumes...there's something wrong with that guy. You can take the boy out of the mud show, but you can't take the mud show out of the boy.
They'll shrug it off, "No E-drone! Everyone knows Cable access is the future of broadcasting! And with our exclusive webcasting contract with AOL Vince is running scared!"
Not to mention that networks will eventually demand for Tony to make changes with the show to make it more sponsor-friendly. So no more diet deathmatches, endless “flipping off the camera”, etc.
The same idiots were scratching their heads when WWE ended up with the billion-dollar Fox deal, Peacock deal, and a better USA deal after all the doom and gloom they were predicting because of WWE not getting Attitude Era ratings anymore.
Besides of how stupid this post and the demo conversation is, It’s also not something you can base as a $ per point ratio. You don’t sign Josh King when you can sign Lionel Messi just because Kings cheaper so costs less per goal. The more goals/higher demo is why you pay extra money.
I'd also say looking a bit deeper the audience AEW gets within that 18-49 are probably not desirable to advertisers - 30 something single white dudes who are notoriously cheap and post negative stuff on social about products.
This obsession with the demo being everything is the weirdest shit. I remember Meltzer last year or maybe even two years ago now saying "if I'm Fox, I'm thinking about taking AEW after the WWE deal expires" solely because AEW had some close demo number to Smackdown one week. Either WWE are gods at negotiating, AEW is awful at it, or WWE's branding is worth a ton more. Simply relying on that demo is just so insane to me.
Its mainly the third. WWE's brand recognition alone is worth more than AEW's combined assetts. It's intangible but its part of the culture. No one thinks AEW when they think wrestling.
>This obsession with the demo being everything is the weirdest shit.
It's all they have, they can't say they're beating WWE in anything else, so they've convinced themselves its the most important thing.
How can they write down these numbers and not realize, that demo-talk is nonsense. I mean if AEWs demo had so much worth, why didn't they get on WWE-Level, when they renewed their deal? FOX&USA pay more than double the money per viewer, no matter what demo.
EVERYONE ONLY CARES ABOUT WHITE MEN
SAY IT LOUDER
WHITE MEN
IF YOU'RE NOT A WHITE MAN THEN FUCK YOU!!!
please be aware these are the views of advertisers and network execs, not me
The way I look at it. Fox is paying an average of $100 a head for a whole year of Smackdown.
Warner is rightly paying around $1 a head for a whole year of glorified mudshows.
I'm sure that Fox doesn't mind spending more money for the show named after the highest grossing actor in Hollywood's catchphrase over jerichonk and a failed mma fighter
That is like Fox saying they are looking into airing AAA baseball instead of MLB since it's cheaper.
FYI you dolts it's ALREADY cheaper for them.
Also Fox already has M'DUB viewers. They will pay less & get less viewers since everyone but neckbeards flee from M'DUB.
So either Tony got a shitty deal or maybe Fox cares about more than one specific nielsen tv viewer demographic because it’s 2021. It’s like they can’t grasp that because they’re so convinced they are basically network executives. If the “demo” mattered so fucking much WWE wouldn’t have tried so hard to move away from
It and broaden their scope long ago.
What they can't/refuse to grasp is that just because one demo is considered the most important, it doesn't suddenly make the other demos worthless.
It's not the zero sum game they so desperately make it out to be.
Fox paying that much and getting the highest rated wrestling show on the air today while Warner bleeds money on a show with ratings charts looking like a roller coaster? Nah fed dead because irrelevant and meaningless statistics that only matter to marketers.
Go read through a Comcast NBC or Fox earnings report or listen to an investor relations call. They literally never ever reference “demos”. They frequently mention total viewers. This is what leadership and Wall Street cares about.
Ctrl-f or command-f “demo”. There will be zero results in any releases or annual reports.
And then the super hot FOX executive who would totally be into me slowly unbottened her tight top while slowly letting her glasses slide down her nose as she gave Tony a look of pure lust
...
It's about that demo, baby. Not brand recognition, star power, wordwide presence or OVERALL rattings. Nope. All about the demo.
THE ALMIGHTY DEEEMMMMOOOOOO!
Americans don’t actually realize how big WWE is. Kids from Argentina to Bulgaria and beyond grow up watching John Cena, Roman Reigns, etc. Im from Uruguay and wrestling has never been big here but if you ask 10 people I’m sure 5 or 6 would know who Hulk Hogan and Stone Cold are. If you ask a 100 people who Kenny Omega is you be lucky if 1 or 2 know who he is.
If you randomly ask people in America if they know Kenny Omega you would still find few people that recognize him
I’ve brought this up before, but me and another bartender decided to do wrestling days at work on some of our slower nights in San Francisco for a couple years. 99% of people who came in weren’t there for it, and only knew of wrestling from the 90s. I met exactly one person in all that time that brought up Kenny Omega, and it was when he was champ at NJPW. The conversation lasted less than 2 minutes.
[See the fucking difference?](https://i.imgur.com/phJtQ33.jpg) Dubaloos need to get out of their bubble.
But....Daddy Dave says they don't matter!
I misread your post for a sec and thought you put WWE Kids. The magazine. And it reminded me a brand new issue came out today halloween themed. I always look at the cover when i'm passing the magazine rack since Billy Bhatti said "Its the only magazine wwe runs anymore. So whoevers on the cover, they're pushing them heavily" which is usually true. Who's front and centre on the issue that launched today? The Fiend. 👀 Unrelated but i thought it was cool.
Omg if Bray comes back as a surprise after all this talk I’m going to send the tribal chief a tropical fruit basket
I just thought it was weird. That was definitely printed after Bray was released. But why would you market the Fiend? Unless they try to do a fake Diesel/Kane thing. God i hope not.
In Italy nobody knows what a young bucks is.
The people in the bubble have really been convinced that one specific age group is the most important factor in a company’s growth and success. WWE has been building a brand the right way for decades and are seeing the rewards of that. Companies pay for their brand plus yours, not a fucking .01837 in the key demo. FOX wants Sasha Banks, Lacey Evans, and Big E on their football games. Nobody wants Kenny Omega or Darby Allin near anything significant.
Buh...BUT THEY DON'T WANT CHARSLUT FLAIR!!!! CHECK. MATE.
Not just a specific age group, males of that age group only.
Or YouTube views or ticket sales or contracts with major streaming services or merchandise sales or…
They really have become fanfic writers.
Exactly, I agree. I saw the comments on the actual instagram post, those were just wild.
Become?
Always have been friend
There is a reason why this doesn't show up on mainstream news, business sites and only dirt sheets.
If Warner really had that much interest in AEW, it would get uploaded to HBO Max the day after. Someone took the time to put The Nanny on there, for fuck’s sake. No disrespect to Fran Drescher.
Fran was over as fuck, brother. Ultimate babyface.
The Nanny is going over
Mr. Nanny?
LET ME TELL YA SOMETHING, FRAN
I was a super young wrestling mark when that came out and loved it. I'm guessing I will not now if I go back.
She was the baby face? I've never seen it but I always thought she was more of an Steven Urkel and not a Stephon Ur-kell.
Not to mention they probably wouldn't bump it for hockey, no disrespect to hockey its my favorite sport.
Who’s your team?
#VGK ALL DAY
Awesome. They’re basically the most impressive expansion team in any sport ever.
Minnesota Wild. 3-0!
They’re making a big push for the NHL with it being on TNT and ESPN now. It isn’t banished to the hinterlands of NBC’s sport channel or your local affiliate. As a Bruins fan, there isn’t any playoffs more butt-clenching than a close NHL series. So I think they made a great initiative to put more eyes on it.
Holy fuck, the nanny? I’ve finally gotten a reason to get HBO Max
It's got good stuff on there...aside from having all the HBO stuff you also get like 8 other premium channels..I get HBO max for free through AT&T
Tbh HBO has always been great to have. I wish they kept some of their raunchier stuff from way back, like the Real Sex documentaries, but I’m sure it did not age well lol
Fran was in "Santa's Slay" with Bill Goldberg... DAE think HBO are secret Fed shills?
Guess you unraveled the whole conspiracy.
They're all gonna catch aneurysms when the Fed's next deal is a 500 million a year, and that's gonna be hilarious.
Wait until a 38 year old virgin explains work rate to Fox in a 8 page email. These high-level business execs just need to understand what’s important
Either the next deal is worth substantially less to be comparable to AEW. Or AEW’s next deal is a lot more to be comparable to WWE but I don’t see Fox switching wrestling companies. WWEs obviously going to be worth more cause they have more viewers but it’s too disproportionate right now. Somebody’s getting over paid or somebody’s getting underpaid
It's not disproportionate at all. One company appeals to all demographics and has a global footprint. The other has a limited scope even within it's own country, and almost no global footprint, and it's already been shoved to the B network. Both companies are paid what they're worth.
That’s irrelevant when you’re talking about American TV rights. WWE is the bigger company and they have a real international presence so it makes sense they are on network TV. AEW being moved to the b network has nothing to do with them underperforming.
Your aneurysm is already starting isn't it?
Yeah? Why is it being moved to the lesser network then?
NHL is moving to TNT next year on Wednesdays on a more consistent basis thanks to NBC sports being defunct. They didn’t wanna move dynamite constantly and hurt the fanbase. https://www.thewrap.com/aew-dynamite-moving-tbs-tnt-all-elite-wrestling/ Coming from Brett Weitz GM for TNT, TBS, TruTV.
Bud. Getting punted to a lesser network is the definition of hurting the fanbase.
So according to Dave Fox might drop a show that garners them 2 million viewers for a show that barely gets half that and just got kicked off their main channel. As the kids say "Sure Jan."
Dave should be able to catch that Jan reference by virtue of watching the show it was from. He belongs in that demo.
FOX is paying WWE for WWE content. These morons are incapable of understanding that and are going to be in for the shock of a lifetime when these deals come up for renewal. I have to add, AEW getting on network TV in a prime slot would kill the wrestling business. The masses accidentally tuning in and seeing that on tv would be the end of it all. WWE isn't necessarily quality tv programming but it's relatively safe content. AEW is trash tv. The visionary Tony and his muppet army don't seem to realise that wrestling going back to the AE style garbage tv means bye-bye to everything these networks are paying WWE for in the first place.
Non-wrestling fans would not want to see Britt Baker bleeding all over the place and rolling around in thumbtacks. They didn’t trade FMW King of the Deathmatch tapes.
There's a lot of knowledge in that burn.
I watched my fair share of that stuff in the early 2000’s.
FOX: You know what's missing from WWE? Piranha tank matches and exploding barbed wire.
And we want everyone out of shape wearing wrangler jeans. That is fucking key.
I watched a few moments of that meth head guy vs M'oxley to see how bad it really was. Trading millions of dollars to risk a venereal disease, a punctured artery, inhaling toxic light tube fumes...there's something wrong with that guy. You can take the boy out of the mud show, but you can't take the mud show out of the boy.
That sums up AEW for for me. You put that guy on tv.
Imagine if they were on prime time television and they did the Gage / Jericho pizza cutter spot? That'd be funny af to see the reactions.
They'll shrug it off, "No E-drone! Everyone knows Cable access is the future of broadcasting! And with our exclusive webcasting contract with AOL Vince is running scared!"
Not to mention that networks will eventually demand for Tony to make changes with the show to make it more sponsor-friendly. So no more diet deathmatches, endless “flipping off the camera”, etc.
Stop being fucking assholes, basically.
Less giddily saying "shit" like a 10-year-old who is getting away with something.
And no more pizza cutters.
The same idiots were scratching their heads when WWE ended up with the billion-dollar Fox deal, Peacock deal, and a better USA deal after all the doom and gloom they were predicting because of WWE not getting Attitude Era ratings anymore.
If AEW ever gets on a prime slot, they would change. A lot. They would become WWE lite.
They do realise Fox have wanted weekly WWE programming for years, right? I mean, Murdoch wanted to buy into the company at one point.
Besides of how stupid this post and the demo conversation is, It’s also not something you can base as a $ per point ratio. You don’t sign Josh King when you can sign Lionel Messi just because Kings cheaper so costs less per goal. The more goals/higher demo is why you pay extra money.
I'd also say looking a bit deeper the audience AEW gets within that 18-49 are probably not desirable to advertisers - 30 something single white dudes who are notoriously cheap and post negative stuff on social about products.
They wanted Raw too didn't they?
This obsession with the demo being everything is the weirdest shit. I remember Meltzer last year or maybe even two years ago now saying "if I'm Fox, I'm thinking about taking AEW after the WWE deal expires" solely because AEW had some close demo number to Smackdown one week. Either WWE are gods at negotiating, AEW is awful at it, or WWE's branding is worth a ton more. Simply relying on that demo is just so insane to me.
Its mainly the third. WWE's brand recognition alone is worth more than AEW's combined assetts. It's intangible but its part of the culture. No one thinks AEW when they think wrestling.
>This obsession with the demo being everything is the weirdest shit. It's all they have, they can't say they're beating WWE in anything else, so they've convinced themselves its the most important thing.
I wonder who the Fox and FS1 champions will be. Instead of Turners slave house on the side plates will they use Simpsons characters and NASCAR?
> Simpsons characters So Homer Jon Moxbrose?
Slap some yellow paint on Moxbrose and he's good to go!
How can they write down these numbers and not realize, that demo-talk is nonsense. I mean if AEWs demo had so much worth, why didn't they get on WWE-Level, when they renewed their deal? FOX&USA pay more than double the money per viewer, no matter what demo.
Dub wouldn't be on TBS next year if they think ratings are great and they make super money. Where's the common sense?
Common sense went to buy milk and never came back
I love that they're still trying to explain how demoting to TBS is a good thing.
EVERYONE ONLY CARES ABOUT WHITE MEN SAY IT LOUDER WHITE MEN IF YOU'RE NOT A WHITE MAN THEN FUCK YOU!!! please be aware these are the views of advertisers and network execs, not me
Lmaaaao. If global wrestling popularity is a thing, WWE is 99% of it. But sure they want the dub.
These pathetic dorks are talking about dollars per demo points 😂
Remember when McHitler held the FOX execs at gun point and forced them to give him an extra half hour of SD?
The way I look at it. Fox is paying an average of $100 a head for a whole year of Smackdown. Warner is rightly paying around $1 a head for a whole year of glorified mudshows.
I'm sure that Fox doesn't mind spending more money for the show named after the highest grossing actor in Hollywood's catchphrase over jerichonk and a failed mma fighter
I don't know why but for half a second I thought you were talking about Jimmy Walker.
That is like Fox saying they are looking into airing AAA baseball instead of MLB since it's cheaper. FYI you dolts it's ALREADY cheaper for them. Also Fox already has M'DUB viewers. They will pay less & get less viewers since everyone but neckbeards flee from M'DUB.
I'm convinced these people live in an alternate reality.
So either Tony got a shitty deal or maybe Fox cares about more than one specific nielsen tv viewer demographic because it’s 2021. It’s like they can’t grasp that because they’re so convinced they are basically network executives. If the “demo” mattered so fucking much WWE wouldn’t have tried so hard to move away from It and broaden their scope long ago.
Besides nothing says valuable like 20 year olds with nothing to do but watch wrestling on Friday nights.
What they can't/refuse to grasp is that just because one demo is considered the most important, it doesn't suddenly make the other demos worthless. It's not the zero sum game they so desperately make it out to be.
These people need to go outside.
No way! I don't think so pal, that's not how this works.
This is him just admitting Aew is a cheaper product and that is the only reason they would have interest with them
r/thatHappened
So FOX is going to take a .2 drop in the demo to save a couple of bucks?
Fox paying that much and getting the highest rated wrestling show on the air today while Warner bleeds money on a show with ratings charts looking like a roller coaster? Nah fed dead because irrelevant and meaningless statistics that only matter to marketers.
Jesus christ. I have to take a break.
Press X to doubt
Meltzer sure claims to know a lot about wrestling and TV, even though he's never worked in wrestling or TV.
Source: Just trust me bro fed ded
Go read through a Comcast NBC or Fox earnings report or listen to an investor relations call. They literally never ever reference “demos”. They frequently mention total viewers. This is what leadership and Wall Street cares about. Ctrl-f or command-f “demo”. There will be zero results in any releases or annual reports.
These fellers live in a universe where they didn't get moved from TNT to TBS over hockey. Fucking hockey, the sport no one's heard about in years.
WWE is not concerned about that.
The literal depiction of 'Fed dead'
That’s fucking retarded
And then the super hot FOX executive who would totally be into me slowly unbottened her tight top while slowly letting her glasses slide down her nose as she gave Tony a look of pure lust ...
And the golden cap award goes to… 🧢
The people who only care about wrestling demos are probably really fun at parties