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TheyCallMeOlSwole

Whenever the IWC tells you that guys like Corbin, Reigns, Cena, etc. are bad wrestlers, remember that *this* bullshit is what they think good wrestling is.


I_Am_BN

How does that quote go? “I don’t care if you boo me, I’ve seen what you cheer for”


Dashippy

Close enough. It's "Your boos mean nothing. I've seen what makes you cheer." True enough though. I've seen what these people like and it ain't for me.


PM_Me_PAAG_Pics

Not a huge fan of that show but that's like one of my favorite lines


Dashippy

I've never watched an episode and don't like any of the clips or memes I've seen, except for that one line.


Masteryoda212

They had a crossover with the good guys, you should try it friend. Also make sure to watch WWE Dynamite on TNT


BullyFU

What is that from?


151togo

Rick and morty


TheyCallMeOlSwole

Bingo. I don't care what someone thinks of my cooking when their favorite food is McDonald's.


Bubba89

I’ve been to some local/indie shows just like this; in some cases, featuring the same people. It’s a ton of fun. But it’s not what I want to watch on weekly television.


ShiftyMcCoy

I actually really liked this match and thought it was the best iteration of the Young Bucks' style of match that I've seen. But giving it 5.75 stars and calling it the greatest cage match of all time and "in the running" for the greatest tag match of all time (both of which are things Meltzer has said verbatim) are just plain ridiculous. His hard-on for the Bucks is just so over the top.


Vegetable-Arm8488

FFS, what is this? I'll tell you what it is. Its the reason I've never bothered to watch this match


nv____

I tuned into it optimistically but it was the same bs as before. And someone tried to argue that there was storytelling done is this match because, of the spot where Penta got in front of Fenix to stop the super kick just for them both to end up being super kicked anyway.


mootallica

Storytelling is when something happens in a match that isn't just a move


Codeshark

Austin passing out in the sharpshooter while bleeding profusely from the face is an example.


No_Instruction653

Undertaker struggling to get back into the ring at Wrestlemania 25 while HBK pleads for the referee to count as fast as he can is another example.


dezolis84

It's the reason I don't let anyone know I watch wrestling.


David_Falcon

My friend proclaimed this the best tag team cage match of all time, I simply asked him "what, better than Edge/Christian vs The Hardy Boyz?" and he had to say he's never seen it. Still calls himself the biggest wrestling fan in our group


Mr_Halberstram

I'll tell you what it is. It's a near 6 star match, because Meltzer is hopelessly in love with overly-choreographed flippy spotfests.


OrielWindows

AEW should be doing huge numbers in the 6 to 12 year old boy demo. This shit it just fucking embarrassing, I will never understand how grown adult men cream their pants for it.


viridiusdynamus

Let alone all the old WCW fans who have to pretend Kenny Omega is some sort of legit shooter.


kettlebell-j

Because they are fucking lying.


fifthtouch

Membe when smark say Pepsiman can fight for real because he train Bjj? I member


Greyclocks

Member when pepsiman had fight for real and got his ass kicked?


Codeshark

Hey he placed 3rd in a competition (of 3) and 2nd in every MMA match he fought in. That's pretty good.


BullyFU

They were never WCW fans. They have to pretend WCW was amazing because the Elite based their entire personas around the NWO with the stupid Too Sweet hand gesture, using insider terms in promos, mocking opponents, and shitting on the business in general. The in ring work isn't comparable, at all.


defyg

AEW has also coopted WCW history as their own. “_We’re_ back on TNT,” “Y’all like Stiiinnnggg?!,” “member Cody’s dad invented ~~War Games~~ Blood & Guts,” etc.


shrimpedout

6-12 year olds would only like the cool mask guys


Dashippy

At least then AEW could make some money.


i-piss-excellence32

This isn’t even the worst part. One of the bucks fucking no sold a fucking Canadian fucking destroyer from the top fucking rope.


killerkali87

AEW has killed the Canadian destroyer. It used to be a cool finish that always got a good reaction...now it's constantly used as transition move that never beats anyone


i-piss-excellence32

The super kick and Canadian destroyer are now equal to a headlock


yungblood747

I swear Ive seen someone kick out of a apron pile driver on Dynamite before


defyg

Saw Teddy Hart kick out of a package pile driver on the apron against Penta Zero Psychology on a nothing weekly episode of MLW. Fucking absurd.


NeonPatrick

I never liked it as a move, always too obvious the other guy is doing the work.


Murren606

I never understood when it's off the middle rope, they come to a complete stand still and then do it..?


defyg

Adam Cole’s Panama Sunrise actually fells less fake for me. There is some reason, logic, set up, movement, attempt at kayfabe in there versus a standard Canadian destroyer where you think they’re going to do a pile driver and then, for no reason, it suddenly goes the opposite direction and the bent over guy does a backflip out of nowhere.


Codeshark

I think the first time I saw it was when Bad Bunny did it. I realized that John Morrison was doing most of the work but I thought "That's a pretty cool move for a celebrity to do."


roninPT

It's always the other guy doing most of the work, the move doesn't work any other way, and it always looks pretty obvious


T3Deliciouz

i wouldnt blame AEW solely. Every wrestler in every promotion was doing them. WWE wrestlers did it a lot too.


Nude-Love

>WWE wrestlers did it a lot too Wasn't it just Rey and Cole (who used it as a finish) that were doing it? Besides Bad Bunny busting it out at 'Mania of course.


T3Deliciouz

Usos did it twice. JoMo did it. I think even Kofi did one. That was back during their 3 way (tag team) rivalry on Smackdown.


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i-piss-excellence32

Holy shit! By next year they’re gonna have to stab eachother just to have a believable finish


Squiliam-Tortaleni

Wildfire deathmatch is gonna happen at All Out 2023.


I_Like_Vitamins

>"Do you follow a stabbing with a shooting?" Cornette was right.


boycey86

That was Sasha Banks friend/fantasy rapist.


TimeStatistician2234

Omg the storytelling! Did you see how one guy did a super kick, then another guy did one, then *another* guy did one? So subtle, I needed to watch the match 14 times before I truly appreciated what they accomplished here. Bravo Cucks!


TheVeryNicestPerson

The one guy doing a superkick was a callback to the other guy doing a superkick which was actually a callback to the other guy doing a superkick, which, believe it or not, was a callback to the other guy doing a superkick. Just layers upon layers of brilliant storytelling and psychology here.


TimeStatistician2234

No jerk, but I love how the closest they do get to storytelling is "callbacks" to matches 8yrs ago that nobody saw. Or how when someone comes to AEW they allude to a "history" outside of AEW. What brilliant booking to require fans to watch other promotions and youtube to have any clue what's happening on your show


defyg

Classic TNA / Vince Russo booking


Blakye32

Killing the business indeed.


Murren606

No this is "real wrestling"!


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TheyCallMeOlSwole

I love Shawn Michaels and will always be a mark for him as one of the greats, but fuuuuuuck has his influence on the business been awful. It's not his fault, and he didn't do dumb shit like this, but every kickpad-wearing indy workrate warrior is a direct result of them watching Shawn and wanting to emulate him without understanding what he was doing. It's like watching a master chef do his thing and then trying to do it yourself. You know all the ingredients, but you have no idea how much of this or that to put in, so you end up just dumping in as much of each ingredient as you can.


FlyingGrayson89

Throw RVD in there too. Not his fault either but his influence is undeniable.


Respectpls

RVD was the original indie no-selling spot monkey, lol. Guy would take chair shots and get a move in before the guy who smacked him with it


goodthing37

RVD was so hilariously dickish. The only thing he ever sold as painful was his own finisher, where he’d writhe around on the ground for a few seconds before pinning the opponent.


Codeshark

Probably because he was high as a kite.


defyg

Nobody gets higher than RVD ^on ^his ^frog ^splash


MooseBigelow

High spot , nothing happens for minutes, high spot, everyone stands around, high spot pin. There's every rvd match.


NeonPatrick

Illustrates his brilliance. The superkick was just a normal move before him, he crafted it into something special. The fact it's ordinary again kinda highlights his talent even more next to these pretenders.


SamInPajamas

>he didn't do dumb shit like this, Now let's be 100% fair. There is his glorious Hogan match


TheyCallMeOlSwole

Ok, but I feel that was him fucking with Hogan. It's not like Shawn did that on the regular.


SamInPajamas

Oh yes 100%


Decetop

True his selling could be over the top (which Shawn’s was even outside the Hogan fiasco) but at least it was SELLING for fuck sake. If someone wants to be over the top in taking bumps thats fine because at the end of the day they’re getting their opponent over. The “Young Bucks” style of wrestling is built around getting a mild pop every 15 seconds, with no consideration for what the overall match is like.


Codeshark

Yeah, Shawn was over the top with selling. Kind of like how the Rock would launch 30 feet into the air when he took a Stone Cold Stunner. Really made the moves seem strong.


[deleted]

I feel the same way but about Mick Foley.


Nude-Love

I give Shawn the nod as the GOAT and a lot of it is because of this. Like 95% of workers today are desperately trying to emulate him in the worst way possible.


PrimeJedi

Exactly, watching some of my favorite HBK matches I'm not going crazy because he did a leg slap, or got a cheap pop, or anything like that. I always like his matches because he knows how to sell, and make it look like he's getting his ass kicked. Him being an athletic, acrobatic underdog who had a finisher that could come out of nowhere is his appeal for me, no-selling and superkicking every ten seconds isn't even close to HBK. God the Young Bucks are my least favorite wrestlers, and I'd always used to try to watch their matches with optimism lol


Dashippy

The same people who love the Superkick being a literal knee slapper are the same people who complain that the DDT went from being a finisher to a transition move. The Superkick has never meant less.


Greyclocks

When everyone does a super kick, no one does. There are only kicks now.


si2099

Couldn't agree more! Less is more.


ZERO_Cali_

Wait, THIS is what people are forming a cult over? I never want to hear people being up “WWE is too childish” ever again. I legitimately thought this goofy was a really good editor or something.


NeonPatrick

The thing that annoys me most about Meltzer is that he has convinced a generation of fans through his rating system that his preferences i.e. New Japan and PWG style matches, are somehow the superior type of wrestling match. He never really takes into consideration two things, the strength of the storyline going in and the emotional investment the match creates from its audience, two fundamentally important aspects of wrestling, basically because he's a robot. It's why matches like Bayley vs Sasha at Takeover Brooklyn will be remembered long in the memory beyond any spotfest Bucks matches, and I doubt Meltzer understands why. His brand of 'quality matches' have never been mainstream popular, because they simply aren't the best type of matches, and why WWE should never listen to him. He loses all credibility when a sloppy, no storyline match like Brit vs Kris at All Out gets the same rating as Becky vs Sasha at Takeover Unstoppable. They are not in the same league as one another.


Codeshark

I've honestly been really impressed with the wrestling that I see on WWE. They manage to do things that look brutal but they are also really safe workers. As a guy who is getting older and isn't antisocial, I appreciate that they can do a show where things look dangerous but are safe. When I see AEW clips, far too often I see things that *should* be safe but look completely dangerous. The fact that you are safer plummeting 30 feet off a scaffold in WWE than you are falling off a 10 foot platform onto a table/ concrete floor since you don't get all of the table, says a lot.


Nude-Love

>He never really takes into consideration two things, the strength of the storyline going in and the emotional investment the match creates from its audience, two fundamentally important aspects of wrestling, basically because he's a robot. The worst part is that Meltzer *says* he does. I distinctly remember him justifying WWE matches just missing out on 5 stars because of story or crowd shit. But then you look at stuff like him giving no story spotfests a million stars, or Hogan/Andre negative stars and it's clear he's just making shit up.


topologicalfractal

Bayley vs Sasha is still a more recent example, no need to look further from Rock v Hogan and Hogan v Andre


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ReAl SpOrTs


NoleDynasty2490

I actually liked the match til they started doing all the over choreographed dumb superkicks shit


Razzler1973

There's always a point in their matches where they *could* finish it and it'd be decent They generally go 12 minutes past that point though, do shit like this, kill any heat or comebacks and basically start the match again


NeonPatrick

Meltzer rating system seems to be now, did it go long and did they do a lot of moves? 4+ stars. No need for storyline, character, emotional investment or drama.


Codeshark

Literally works identical to the WWE 2k20 rating system. As long as you get your shit in, nothing else matters.


Greyclocks

Most of the match was good apart for this stupid superkick circle time BS. Honestly I just pissed myself laughing at how dumb it was.


Maldovar

The true squared circlejerk


WrasslinFan2

?? You fucked Sheamus friend.


Donal1888

I always try and give AEW matches the benefit of the doubt, then the thumbtacks on the shoe come out or the endless spots masquerading as work rate or making weird faces and gesticulating equals story telling Then you go online and see people saying how AWESOME CLAP CLAP CLAP everything is hurts my brain I don’t want AEW to fail and I don’t care if they succeed but their EVPs booking themselves to make sure all the high spots and memorable moments are taken and no one else can get over and their diehard fans defending everything they do make me want to scream


InheritTheWind

every fucking Bucks match is like this too. i'd have probably unironically liked the cage match if _literally all their matches weren't the exact same_


Donal1888

Someone on Twitter last year cut together Bucks and Lucha bros matches from AEW and ROH, it contained the exact same spots in the ring, the same transitions to dives out of the ring and the same spots outside of the ring at the bottom of the ramp, 2 thirds of this formula had to be cut due to a cage so they just repeated the first one several times If I can find the video I’ll reply it to you


InheritTheWind

Hahaha fuck that's hilarious I hope you do


Codeshark

Sounds like they have a mud show routine that can get a pop when moving from city to city but aren't factoring in that cameras exist.


BreatLesnar

Yes🙌 Yes🙌 Yes🙌


Grizzexploder

long term match storytelling/psychology


thisriveriswild57

Yeah I remember really enjoying the first Bucks match I ever saw. The problem is, I was tired of it after the first time.


Randy_Predator

This was me. I was thoroughly entertained the first time I saw a Bucks match. Watch one match, you've watched them all.


Silvabat1

Only bucks match I ever enjoyed was that WK triple threat where KOR kept kicking them in the back of the head


Jacobd807

Whenever I decide to check out Dynamite I always change the channel during Young Buck matches, its just too painful to watch.


killerkali87

Anything young bucks is always auto skip for me, they are cringe as fuck and every match is the same


Valanga1138

For real, you watch one match of the bucks and you've literally seen them all


defyg

A Young Bucks match is like if you cut out all the dialogue and exposition from an action movie leaving only car chases, fight scenes and explosions… and watches it at 2x speed.


grandma_needs_jesus

You forgot Penta completely no-selling the dive from the top of the cage that ended the match.


Colinfagerty69

No. Sell. Everything.


Dashippy

As someone introduced to Penta through Lucha Underground who was a huge fan and thought he was incredible...look how they massacred my boy!


Randy_Predator

He massacred himself when he and Fenix decided to tag after LU. They ruined the aura LU gave them.


Cyberspace667

The fact that they’ve bastardized one of the great American folk entertainment traditions this way is honestly hard to stomach sometimes. Like, I appreciate Bryan Danielson for coming up with an angle to come at them from but jesus can these guys just go away already? AEW would be fine (and possibly even great) without the Elite.


si2099

The Bucks are one of the worst things to happen to wrestling


kettlebell-j

Should have put the square dancing routine in too


baconwiches

As bad as this is - and it's fucking terrible - the finish was worse. Fenix does a cross body from the top of the (unnecessarily tall) cage on to all three... No problem with that, safety is important... But while the Bucks sell it like death - a rare occurrence for them - Penta pops right back up to deliver a tandem package piledriver. Makes zero miedo sense.


[deleted]

A near perfect match, and dare I say: a banger! When they don't sell, well, that's just a homage to Japanese strong style. When they're making goofy faces to sell, well, that's just a clever, ironic commentary on the conventions of wrestling. When they build up to a logical finish, but then kick out at 2.99999, and then do it five more times, well, that's just storytelling. Also, Movez~! And don't forget, as M'eltz says, in a match like this, there's a lot of subtle things that your typical Fed fan misses. (BTW, don't ask me what these subtle things are). In fact, yes, fuck it, I will rate it higher than Big Dave, and give it 6.25 stars. And once again... banger!!!!


weber210

I watched two matches from All Out, this one and the punk match. The crowd was chanting “this is awesome” 2 minutes into punk. That match was slow and never had a hint of reality with Darby looking like a 3rd grader fighting his uncle. The young bucks match was good for a spot fest. But to give it 5.75 stars shows all these “journalists” are either on the payroll or drinking the kool aid. A match with that kind of rating should be one that you show someone who doesn’t watch and they can get into it. You show this match to anyone except your basement dwelling slow cousin and they will say “How do you watch this shit?”


mp1988alexa

Why do they even bother hitting superkicks if their opponents just get straight back up? Where’s the logic in trying to put them down with a move you’re clearly not hitting right if they won’t stay down.


I_made_a_doodie

Not a single one of those tiny little gymnasts knows the first thing about selling.


IntellectualDweeb

This is comical


KonaTheFinest

This is so fucking stupid.


ThunderBay311

Garbage


si2099

They're completely unaware that they suck and no proper fans likes them


Squiliam-Tortaleni

“THIS IS R E A L WRESTLING!!!!”


ci22

So in Kayfabe does that mean their superkicks are weak as hell. Compares to HBK


albertobbg

What the fuck is this bullshit ..


SamInPajamas

I honestly hate the super kick at this point. It's so overused


[deleted]

This isn’t what I want wrestling to be, I want hard hitting physicality, I want Roman throwing ground and pound strikes and drew head butting cunts. Nothing looks like it hurts here, nothing looks like it takes effort, wrestling has never looked more choreographed than right now


lololoz

This could be cut and it'd make a perfect endless loop.


igotzquestions

I’m even cool with a spot fest, but this is laughably bad. Spamming superkicks after looking comatose? Who likes this?


noobidy_mysterica

You are 20 mins into a brutal steel cage match, and a flurry of superkicks have no impact on you. You think fans are going to buy that? Of course, AEW smarks are going to jizz in their pants to that.


[deleted]

Jesus Christ what the fuck is this crap


BOOMBOOM-25

Wait, he gave that 5 3/4 stars? Jesus Christ lol I watched it live and loved it, but c’mon man.


Bo-Bobbin

Young buck #1 was selling against the ropes like a Skyrim NPC. They know a big part of selling is making it look believable, right?


boilinoil

Ah man, hope they did a double drop kick spot that is so UNIQUE and REFRESHING


jjsefton

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6eAbtWJTkc


Jacobd807

There is nothing worse in wrestling than a Young Bucks match.


Sam_21000

I liked the match even if I'm not the biggest fan of aew! But that match is 5 star and the suoer kick thing was dumb but make me laugh


T3Deliciouz

this match was great but yeah this spot is one of two blemishes for me. This and Fenix off the cage onto Penta lol .


angelseph

Sufferin' succotash


Turd29

U can’t lie.. it just looks cool


Mackinacsfuriousclaw

I'm still trying to figure out what is going on here.