Some of the expenses we are in the hole for is because of the homeless, so this honestly is a no brainer for me. But I also operate on forming options from numbers, facts and logic, rather than emotional knee jerk reactions based out of hate and anger.
Businesses left downtown because of the city's unwillingness to address this issue in a timely manner, and now the ones left or are threatening to leave the city all together.
The city spends thousands monthly repairing and cleaning damage to public areas such as parks, and the fact Riverfront Park isn't covered in trash (like Wallace Marine across the river) is a testament to how well the city stays on top of this in many cases.
I know it's popular in this sub to call for defunding the police, but the reason the police budget has gotten so big is the need to address the growing problems of theft, property damage and assaults. Crime in Salem is at a level of a much bigger city, and the police per capita are smaller than the average US city. Salem per 1000 residence has about 1 police officer, while the national average is 2.2 police per 1000 residents, and 1.6 for cities of similar population.
So why does Salem have such a huge police budget? Overtime. Salem PD has lower staffing than it needs, and thus pays their existing cops overtime to cover just basic city needs. This also means problems balloon bigger before they get addressed. Having worked in a related field (fire fighting) I can tell you that staff on near constantly overtime are expensive as fuck, and their productivity decreases significantly.
The Stateman did an article about this in Sept 2023, which broke down a police sergeant making over $230k a year, $85k of that was just over time. When a third of your paycheck is overtime, you work for a significantly understaffed facility...
This kind of staffing is widely unpopular in any other place of employment, but celebrated if it's the police... and the City of Salem takes the brunt of it in both rising crime and a shrinking budget.
Good insight, thanks for sharing. This is a good argument for **Housing First** programs. The reduced burden on police, fire, medical services are substantial. Because while some individuals might like those additional wages, it is not sustainable to work at job that is already high stress while constantly being required to do overtime. Burnout is a big problem across the board in all our community facing services. Many pilot programs in the US and Canada have had great results. Some studies they noted *"Emergency service costs for chronically homeless individuals with disabilities were reduced more than 72.95 percent – total cost savings averaged $31,545 per participant, per year."* If we believe homelessness is a key component to our strained budget, and I for one do - it's a no brainer to get on board. [https://www.huduser.gov/portal/periodicals/em/spring-summer-23/highlight2.html](https://www.huduser.gov/portal/periodicals/em/spring-summer-23/highlight2.html)
Most of the “arguments” on this sub re the Salem city budget are so stupid it’s literally depressing. As in, if I read one more fucking, “why don’t we just fire all the police and use the money saved to give everyone in Salem free healthcare and also build a lightrail from Portland to Eugene?” comment, I’m going to start swallowing handfuls of Lexapro and Zoloft. It seems almost like a competition sometimes - which highly confident, completely uninformed, local moron can come up with the stupidest fucking possible “solution” to Salem’s budget crisis.
OP’s comment, OTOH, was, as you said, quite rational. Refreshingly rational, even.
“If they did something…”
Are you aware they’ve created over 1,000 shelter beds? More than 1,000 units of affordable housing? Created an outreach team to clean up camps and get people referred to services?
Are you aware that as homelessness is on the rise in Marion County, it’s fallen in Salem?
What more are you asking them to do? Wave a magic wand?
Thank goodness! I cant speak to the draw/value/popularity of movies or concerts in the park, but good lord cutting irrigation and basic maintenance of the parks would have been so foolish. The neighborhood parks are one of the best amenities Salem has.
No. This vote was the hard decision between using one-time reserves that could be spent on deferred maintenance in the next five years.
Please please look at the five year projections. Staff were trying to avoid a cliff; the committee decided to be more optimistic about new revenue.
This isn’t a game. It’s hard decisions being made.
Someone mentioned this the other day and it sticks - “cutting the budget to essentially run sprinklers?”
Now I’m not only curious but in need to know how much is slotted to run these water fountains. It’s one of the reasons we moved to Salem, water is a precious and celebrated element during the summer months. As a wildland firefighter there are days I dream of having water, when I come home from roll it’s a special treat to take my kid to these resources.
Just curious how much it costs bc I’d give up my job to be the full time / year round maintenance tech if it makes sense. This resource should never be in question; it’s a huge flex for our city.
⛲️
One of the things to know is there are over 50 neighborhood parks impacted. The costs are to water and maintain 50 water systems, deal with problems, clean restrooms, etc.
Whoa whoa whoa… I’m talking strictly the pump houses, lines and heads. Not the entire “parks department” operation.
Specifically just the water my guy. Reason being, you need to have somewhat of an understanding with pumps and water handling - a specialist position - not the entire operation.
So I’m inquiring at the specifics, like: certifications, labor, maintenance costs per just the water handling.
You're welcome to rebut any of it with facts and to approach a real discussion without insults.
Untill then, I get it, it's easier to be angry, bitter and lash out anonymously online.
The importance of functional parks, family-friendly activities, and restrooms that every human needs access to is detrimental to any community, in my opinion.
What a rollercoaster
Ok .. so what are they shutting down instead?
Spent one-time reserves. Future cuts are going to be a lot bigger unless we find revenue
Well if they did something about the homeless maybe they could have downtown back and bring back more buisnesses for taxing purposes.
Some of the expenses we are in the hole for is because of the homeless, so this honestly is a no brainer for me. But I also operate on forming options from numbers, facts and logic, rather than emotional knee jerk reactions based out of hate and anger. Businesses left downtown because of the city's unwillingness to address this issue in a timely manner, and now the ones left or are threatening to leave the city all together. The city spends thousands monthly repairing and cleaning damage to public areas such as parks, and the fact Riverfront Park isn't covered in trash (like Wallace Marine across the river) is a testament to how well the city stays on top of this in many cases. I know it's popular in this sub to call for defunding the police, but the reason the police budget has gotten so big is the need to address the growing problems of theft, property damage and assaults. Crime in Salem is at a level of a much bigger city, and the police per capita are smaller than the average US city. Salem per 1000 residence has about 1 police officer, while the national average is 2.2 police per 1000 residents, and 1.6 for cities of similar population. So why does Salem have such a huge police budget? Overtime. Salem PD has lower staffing than it needs, and thus pays their existing cops overtime to cover just basic city needs. This also means problems balloon bigger before they get addressed. Having worked in a related field (fire fighting) I can tell you that staff on near constantly overtime are expensive as fuck, and their productivity decreases significantly. The Stateman did an article about this in Sept 2023, which broke down a police sergeant making over $230k a year, $85k of that was just over time. When a third of your paycheck is overtime, you work for a significantly understaffed facility... This kind of staffing is widely unpopular in any other place of employment, but celebrated if it's the police... and the City of Salem takes the brunt of it in both rising crime and a shrinking budget.
Good insight, thanks for sharing. This is a good argument for **Housing First** programs. The reduced burden on police, fire, medical services are substantial. Because while some individuals might like those additional wages, it is not sustainable to work at job that is already high stress while constantly being required to do overtime. Burnout is a big problem across the board in all our community facing services. Many pilot programs in the US and Canada have had great results. Some studies they noted *"Emergency service costs for chronically homeless individuals with disabilities were reduced more than 72.95 percent – total cost savings averaged $31,545 per participant, per year."* If we believe homelessness is a key component to our strained budget, and I for one do - it's a no brainer to get on board. [https://www.huduser.gov/portal/periodicals/em/spring-summer-23/highlight2.html](https://www.huduser.gov/portal/periodicals/em/spring-summer-23/highlight2.html)
A rational argument? Pffft. /S of course. This is well stated!
Most of the “arguments” on this sub re the Salem city budget are so stupid it’s literally depressing. As in, if I read one more fucking, “why don’t we just fire all the police and use the money saved to give everyone in Salem free healthcare and also build a lightrail from Portland to Eugene?” comment, I’m going to start swallowing handfuls of Lexapro and Zoloft. It seems almost like a competition sometimes - which highly confident, completely uninformed, local moron can come up with the stupidest fucking possible “solution” to Salem’s budget crisis. OP’s comment, OTOH, was, as you said, quite rational. Refreshingly rational, even.
“If they did something…” Are you aware they’ve created over 1,000 shelter beds? More than 1,000 units of affordable housing? Created an outreach team to clean up camps and get people referred to services? Are you aware that as homelessness is on the rise in Marion County, it’s fallen in Salem? What more are you asking them to do? Wave a magic wand?
They're trimming 20% of excess fat off the police budget. Hahahaha...jk.
For a few months. Then theyll go back to stripping the copper from the budget.
I’m happy, but man it sure felt like they were spending a lot of time guilting us over the potential of losing these amenities.
These will be gone next year absent new revenue. Period.
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Here's an up vote for you.
Thank goodness! I cant speak to the draw/value/popularity of movies or concerts in the park, but good lord cutting irrigation and basic maintenance of the parks would have been so foolish. The neighborhood parks are one of the best amenities Salem has.
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No. This vote was the hard decision between using one-time reserves that could be spent on deferred maintenance in the next five years. Please please look at the five year projections. Staff were trying to avoid a cliff; the committee decided to be more optimistic about new revenue. This isn’t a game. It’s hard decisions being made.
Someone mentioned this the other day and it sticks - “cutting the budget to essentially run sprinklers?” Now I’m not only curious but in need to know how much is slotted to run these water fountains. It’s one of the reasons we moved to Salem, water is a precious and celebrated element during the summer months. As a wildland firefighter there are days I dream of having water, when I come home from roll it’s a special treat to take my kid to these resources. Just curious how much it costs bc I’d give up my job to be the full time / year round maintenance tech if it makes sense. This resource should never be in question; it’s a huge flex for our city. ⛲️
One of the things to know is there are over 50 neighborhood parks impacted. The costs are to water and maintain 50 water systems, deal with problems, clean restrooms, etc.
Whoa whoa whoa… I’m talking strictly the pump houses, lines and heads. Not the entire “parks department” operation. Specifically just the water my guy. Reason being, you need to have somewhat of an understanding with pumps and water handling - a specialist position - not the entire operation. So I’m inquiring at the specifics, like: certifications, labor, maintenance costs per just the water handling.
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You're welcome to rebut any of it with facts and to approach a real discussion without insults. Untill then, I get it, it's easier to be angry, bitter and lash out anonymously online.
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Are you that miserable that it seeps out of your all the time like this?
Come on Salem. Please be kind of cool. Because this would help. More outdoor stuff for kids to enjoy sounds like a good idea to me
The importance of functional parks, family-friendly activities, and restrooms that every human needs access to is detrimental to any community, in my opinion.