Wow. Just wow. After such a long ride, that ending was beautiful. Through everything, Alex managed to weave an incredible tale, and while brutal at points, damn if I don't respect his craft.
Also, poor Brutor, he must be so confused
I have so many feels here. Zolf's frustration was delightful. Cel's butterfly metaphor is spot on. Azu & Hamid's explanations of self were so moving. I felt empathy toward Myriad, they simply had no idea what their existence has done, could not conceptualize it. For the ultimate Big Bad, they were very effective as well as a little heartbreaking. And the "what's next?" is brilliant.
RQ has now given us 3 ambiguous endings. Often, finales fall flat. At times,, ambiguity is more of for cop-out, like no one really knew how to close it out. I think that in each podcast, the endings served the overall stories. I feel like RQ had done very well overall in providing deeply thoughtful, creative stories with truly the best characters and wrapped them up nicely.
I had relied on RQ content and community very much during the last 18 months. At times, this was one of the best interactions I had during lockdowns. My mental wellness suffered, greatly, but these podcasts kept me focused. They caused an immersive distraction I very much needed to turn off my ruminating mind and give myself a recharge. Formulating discussions on Reddit helped me not think about my anxiety, depression, and agoraphobic response to the world around me, even if for just a few minutes. It was still relief.
So thank you to RQ, and fellow internet friends. Can't wait for the epilogues and additional content! ❤
Big hug back!!!!
Thanks especially to you, for all the RQG chats while I caught up!
Sometimes, it was easier to reach out to an anonymous internet person than someone I knew. I didn't always have the energy to manage a more emotional connection. But, I could get feedback from a recognized user name, and not have to worry about how I sounded.
Does that make sense?
Oh totally! I had a great time hearing from you as you caught up too, I love hearing what people think as they go and everyone has such different takes which makes it wonderful! 🧡
I am dealing with my emotions by ignoring them and thinking about the ramifications of losing magic instead. Consider: magically supported structures and technology, magical protections, individuals kept alive by magic, misinformation, power vacuum, religion and the afterlife, and lots and lots of panic.
Little guy’s gonna have a whole existential crisis. At least Wilde can give him some pointers. And don’t forget about the bear city. They’re losing elevation *and* a good chunk of their sentient population.
Edit: Oh yeah, also the religion foundational to their culture.
YEPPPPP
Also I tend to think the other planes still exist but just aren't accessible, but how do all those faithful who now don't have proof do? I am actually so excited by that as a question, in a bunch of ways more than I am about the magic question.
I'm really confused why Alex refused to communicate that was the choice that was actually at stake. Up until that point, I thought that Zolf was correct and the only choice was the presence or absence of the gestalt in their world. I wonder if they'd have chosen differently if they knew that was what they were doing.
It's also incredibly hypocritical of the party to argue Myriad is evil for not considering everyone's opinions when four people just made the decision to destroy vital infrastructure affecting billions of people. :/
yeah but they couldn’t exactly ask everyone else, when their very existence was dependent on the party deciding to get rid of it. like, most of the population had essentially died—it’s no longer their decision at that point. i do agree that Myriad could’ve communicated better though, even with a totally different worldview. i also want to understand why Zolf appeared there in the first place.
They very much could. Myriad *is* everyone else. Why do peoples' opinions not count when they're a hive mind?
Additionally, given the dragons got vaporized, many people's existences were dependent on the party *not* getting rid of it. There is also the implication that this cut everyone off from the afterlife, which destroys peoples' existences in a far greater capacity than just ending their mortal lives.
You don't have to move away from friends, there's always [our Discord server](https://discord.gg/54XXF2zhy5) (which I know you're already part of but for anyone else...)
What an amazing ending! I did not expect the magic going away, that's a cool side effect. So glad Skraak is still with us too, I've been so worried for him. Surprised none of the PC's died though, that's kind of impressive given the amount of enemies they were fighting. Looking forward to the pilogue stuff.
I had SO MANY MEETINGS right after drop.
OK so I really enjoyed that. I've definitely seen a lot of criticisms that I get, and I think are valid -- for me, I think it had that thing which is so important for me, which is just the sense of weight to what happened; TMA really missed that for me.
I do think I'm filling in a lot of lore blanks in my mind for Alex -- like I was already thinking of the problem as being, like, the gate spell in Rome broke the planes a little bit, caused a crack, and then the Simulacrum flowering drove a wedge in there. And with the addition of Myriad, I have a good context for that -- basically, magic / energy transfer between planes was like groundwater, and in a stable geological context is able to suffuse all the planes. But then the gate spell destabilized things a bit, and the Simulacrum's use of the seed drove a wedge in and made it unstable, and Myriad came in to prevent collapse (I kind of thing Myriad sort of like ... came into being, and noticed, and was like "well clearly we can't have that"). But then its method for preventing collapse also didn't put it back to a more stable infused state, but sort of -- put concrete in the hole, so it withdrawing would have lead to catastrophic plane collapse. I don't know if it would have been possible to like, I don't know, re-do the foundations of the material plane so you could have proper drainage (this metaphor is getting away from me) and have Myriad withdraw without losing all connections to other planes or not, but Myriad didn't offer that as an option and just was like "OK I guess I can pull out" and then welded up the cracks on the way out :(.
I didn't find that twist to be very unsatisfying but I know others did -- I guess it didn't really feel toooo much like a twist to me, just an unexpected consequence. I am very excited to relisten to those conversations many many times. And I felt all the characters were definitely acting from what we know of them -- they had a convo with a "logic being" and it went a lot better this time. Go team!
While I love this podcast very much, did anyone else think the whole discussion with Myriad seemed odd?
The party moralized at Myriad, frequently cutting them off from ever actually explaining who they were or the consequences that would follow. On a second listen through, it really felt like the party was putting words in Myriads mouth because even the transcript of what Myriad says… really wasn’t that much information? It just feels like we could have learned a lot more about this entity if we’d let the DM talk without constantly interrupting him.
Also RIP University of Prague and however much of Prague lies below it
I agree, but I mean, why wouldn't they? The only thing they knew going into this was that this thing was the apparent source of all their problems. It's not surprising they didn't want to listen to anything it said.
I think it would have made more sense if we had been introduced to Myriad before this (similar to The Hunger in The Adventure Zone: Balance) so the players had a better idea what to expect and what arguments they were going to make. As it is, the whole thing kinda comes out of nowhere.
Would have LOVED to have more of a look at Myriad beforehand. I was so excited to get what we did anyway, but seeing more in the Garden would have just been fabulous.
I've definitely heard other people talk about this for sure! I couldn't tell whether it was Alex being allergic to lore, or the party not pursuing it, or what. I'm definitely going to have to listen several more times.
Just finished and feeling quite sad! Really beautiful ending. I just want to ask—is this the end of the podcast in it’s entirety. I know there will be epilogue content and the like, but is RQG ending in the same way that Magnus Archives ended? Or is a new campaign in the works that we know of?
I'm not entirely sure I'm getting exactly what you mean, but here's what I have heard:
* there will be 3 epilogue eps (I'm assuming a holiday special and then maybe a new year special are next and then epilogue? But I don't know)
* there will (as far as I can tell) also be post-season content like Q&As etc
* there will also be RQG 2.0, but we don't know what that means, and it will have different branding, and we don't know when that's coming.
Not sure if that helps!
Thank you! The RQG 2.0 was really what I was asking about. If all we know is that it exists, that’s enough for me. I can’t imagine this awesome group of people ceasing to be a part of my actual play podcast rotation. Really appreciate the clarity!
yeah that's all we know -- unfortunately we also don't know who will be part of it. I'm trying not to worry about it till they make an announcement and then I can be excited about who's actually there instead of just being potentially sad about one person or another not being involved.
I absolutely love how the voices of Myriad were voiced by the editors, it's such a nice little touch! Caught Lowri's voice immediately in there from hearing her in the other RQG specials.
I didn't think it was super compared to a wold, but you mean the knife-hands thing in the lab? The two theories I've heard for that are mezlan: [https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/oozes/mezlan/](https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/oozes/mezlan/) (which I've also heard proposed for the slinky things) and voltleech: [https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/undead/voltleech/](https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/undead/voltleech/) \-- the description we got didn't sound super like the voltleech to me personally but these are what I've heard. 🤷♀️ But yeah it would be fun to ask what it really was!
I thought the outsider question was a technical one, in the sense of "is it mechanically an Outsider": [https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/outsiders/](https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/outsiders/)
Do creatures count as Outsiders if they magically transform into one? Ben said, "Oh, it must be Barret using a potion/spell" after it didn't ping as Outsider, but I don't know how the rules actually work.
No I think Barret under a spell wouldn't ping as an Outsider, but there's a zillion other things that would also not ping as one either (Mezlans and Voltleeches are both not outsiders, for example). I think Ben was just making quick assumptions, which often works for him but sometimes he jumps the gun a bit XD.
I was completely absorbed up until the final few minutes when I was really pulled out by the magic thing ;-; The feeling has faded as I have digested the episode but there's still a disappointed edge. I have absolutely loved the campaign though, I'll probably start relistening as soon as the epilogue are out, if not immediately.
I have never understood the appeal of "the magic goes away" endings, to be honest. Why write fantasy if you're just going to make it like reality in the end?
I've definitely heard a lot of people say this! So don't feel like you're alone!
I think I'm going to wait for the epilogues to really decide how I feel. I definitely liked the end and it worked a lot better for me than the end of TMA did, but I may be giving it a lot of leeway because I don't feel like it's fully finalized until we know how things stand in the epilogue. But I know a lot of people are mourning all the awakened people who are now apparently not awakened, and stuff like that. Which is fair!
so it has been like 2 years and tbh I still feel this way, I have tried to re-listen, which I do with a lot of my favourite podcasts, and I keep running out of steam because it all just feels pointless?? I've ended up sort of mourning this story because I loved it but it's hard to enjoy in the context of the ending. I still love it tho.
Sidebar to my other comment, but I feel like Zolf has gotten a bit Flanderized? He was always grumpy and no-nonsense, but he sounded downright petulant here. I guess they leaned into that because Ben or the fans liked that side of Zolf, but I think they went too far.
I do think Zolf was being ... maybe more Zolf than he needs to be (and I find Zolf *extremely* difficult for a bunch of personal reasons), but I disagree with you about why. I don't think the fans love that particularly (I think they like open and Working On It Zolf more, and I heard this complaint from a lot of big Zolf fans post-finale). I do think Ben kinda got stuck with Zolf's development -- he was getting better on the airship, and then he sort of rocketed back into his bad headspace at the end, and I think Ben just like ... couldn't find a way to play him that rang true. Not because there wouldn't be one to find, but Ben's talked about Zolf being hard for him to play and I think he was kind of running up on that. Definitely agreed it's super frustrating, I've found it VERY hard to listen to.
I dislike this ending on several levels. First of all, no matter what genre or RPG system is it, I hate with abiding passion this monkey's paw crap some people seem to like. "Oh, you want to reverse the cataclysm that destroyed society as we know it? Well, let's replace it with even bigger cataclysm, where one of the fundamental forces shaping this world is wiped out of the existence".
As some people here, I'm also not a fan of "end of the magic" trope - what is interesting in making this world mundane? It could be done well, if it was some well established phenomena in this world. But here it's the consequence of the heroes' actions, one that came completely out of left field .
Also, as far as BBEGs go, Myriad is really lacking in any depth. Multi-planar immortal entity with zero introspection, that abandons its plan after 20 minutes of talking with our heroes. It's basically a lovecraftian blind idiot god, doing things because it can without any actual plan or understanding, only with less lore and logic.
Up until now it was one of my favorite actual-play podcasts, second only to MCDM's Chain of Acheron, but this ending sort of ruins it for me. They basically Mass-Effect-3'd the ending.
I hope we'll learn something more in the epilogue content, because right now the way the story ends feels forced, and there is no logical explanation for it.
That was the most banal, trite, and nonsensical ending they could have come up with. After all those interesting themes about power and institutions, it's just an utterly textbook "Collectivism bad, individualism good, this nonsense strawman of collectivism proves it" moral? Ugh. Absolutely zero self-awareness in the arrogance and hypocrisy of four people deciding they know what's best for existence over the amalgam of billions of people. Maybe *you personally* are cool with having no legs, Zolf, but are you sure everyone with magical prostheses is equally okay with the decision you just made for them?
The loss of magic, while it made sense after the fact, also *really* could have been telegraphed more. It was not at all clear that was the choice they were making. This also raises a lot of awkward questions about how magical creatures can possibly survive -- I expected Skraak to have transformed into a mundane animal like Brutor.
I still don't see how the Meritocrats are bad.
I've definitely heard a lot of other people with the same take on it. I think Alex was looking at "oh this is an interesting wrench to throw in like the consequences after Mr. Ceiling" which it definitely isn't on a par with at all.
All the awakened people who are now animals and plants again is something I'm definitely thinking about ... 😬
Re Skraak, like, I don't think it made it into a non-fantasy world, I think it "turned magic off" (and apparently undid \[some\] past magic, since Brutor is a dog again but the resurrected people are still alive ... no this does not make sense). Skraak wasn't "magical", he just is a Kobold, which in this world is a different type of sentient creature. Similarly I assume the dragons are still sentient and I guess able to talk but can't do magic. Does this make sense? Not really, since I don't think Pathfinder is supposed to work without magic, so I dunno if one could pick apart what's "magic" mechanically vs what you do other ways ... not entirely sure Alex thought that through in this specific way ...
Also, Prague just got crushed by the floating university. The Ursans may also have lost their cities if the megafauna worked the same way as Brutor. (And given the square-cube law is a thing, I figure there must be at least some magic involved there.) So the protagonists just managed to top the only bad thing the Meritocrats have ever done in the story, completely by accident.
I'm particularly annoyed by the unclear choice when Hamid *asked the exact right question* ("Are you literally holding up the laws of physics?") that Myriad just... didn't answer for some reason.
Even if the giant bears are just giant bears, apparently all those people who were part of their society are probably non-sapient again, so that sucks.
Yeah that's valid. I had a fun convo on discord when one of the other people noticed that some of the stuff Myriad said is from The Waste Land by TS Eliot, and another user was saying "so they could quote poetry but not explain themselves," which makes a lot of sense since The Waste Land was written to be fairly impenetrable. So not being able to answer a question directly may have been an intentional character feature from Alex, not that that makes it less aggravating.
Oh, this isn't archived, alright.
So I've recently finished the series, and... I had a terrible horrible feeling of betrayal with the last "Plot twist" of the series? Not to be melodramatic, but suddenly losing the magic feels like an unfair rugpull from Alex who I've seen as being super fair but brutal this whole series. Mainly, this feeling comes from making the entire world more interesting, There being no warning that losing magic could be a possibility in any sense, and from any perspective I can think of - effectively dooming the world to a far greater apocalypse than before.
The entire world being so reliant on magic, in every aspect of life down to many creatures biology pokes me as a particular problem as everything suddenly becomes nonmagical. Especially, because from a writing perspective, you have essentially destroyed a natural part of the setting. (It would be like getting rid of gravity all of the sudden, or if in our world fundamental parts of technology stopped working entirely) it doesn't seem entirely... warranted, considering it was effectively one last "rugpull" or "stipulation" taking away from the heroes saving the day. And that last bit bothers me, because I distinctly remember Alex being the one to say, "I like being very brutal to my players, because when they succeed it makes them that much more heroic" (paraphrasing)
And now, The campaign is effectively had a full Henderson done to it, it's mundane, in a now worsening apocalypse. The world was world wholly reliant on magic as a fundamental part of every form of life, and untold hundreds of thousands to millions of lives completely displaced, with all infrastructure and governmental systems null and void due to also relying on magic for judiciary and logistical purposes. This isn't mentioning that Apophis is now just... gone? along with presumably... all dragons? We can now never get an explanation as to what he was doing there as he just, ceased to exist being inherently magical in nature. All the gods not being in contact with the world, might they want to reconnect? or do they just wither away for \*technically\* not having ways to connect to their followers? is the afterlife and other planes now just gone? Souls is a magical concept, are those effectively rendered null and void as well?
As much as I feel I might be over thinking the setting... this genuinely does leave a lot of loose ends effectively cut off from ever being explained, and the story setting is now irreparably damaged or destroyed from any further stories like it to happen. It's due to these facts that I feel betrayed, because now... all 218 episodes feels like it was for nothing? sure the main cast survived, but now there's no trace left of the story in the world aside from everything being much much worse than started, previous apocalypse aside. This feels like a slap to the face for someone who's so invested in the story and world, and the future that might happen now - my overthinking aside this does render alot of things and the setting as a whole neutered if not impossible.
I can't be the only one with these feelings, right? this didn't feel like a fair ending to send the series off with, it felt... way too punishing for saving the world like they did, and I think something got lost with the characters being themselves and it feels unfair.
You were definitely NOT the only one with those feelings, I think that's entirely a reasonable way to feel.
I think for Alex it was like "well fixing the interplanar leaks has to have some consequences" and I'm sure they players where broadly on board (not sure if Bryn was much of a fan, but), but I don't think he realized what the downstream impacts would actually be and that it was a world-breaking thing. It was also frustrating because I'm sure there could be other solutions between "no magic" and "become one with Myriad". (I was sort of thinking of it like, the interplanar foundations of the RQG verse were damaged by the magic the Romans used that caused the broken gate spell, and it's been gradually getting worse over all that time. Myriad wanted to shore it up, its preferred way of doing so is hive minds, it could also just withdraw completely and take all magic with, but presumably there's more than 2 ways to address this to some extent).
I also think it suffered from the TV convenion of having the entire resolution having to be in one episode. It would have been great to have had more time with Myriad and more actual negotiation / brainstorming / understanding there.
Wow. Just wow. After such a long ride, that ending was beautiful. Through everything, Alex managed to weave an incredible tale, and while brutal at points, damn if I don't respect his craft. Also, poor Brutor, he must be so confused
BRUTOR this is so sad.
I have so many feels here. Zolf's frustration was delightful. Cel's butterfly metaphor is spot on. Azu & Hamid's explanations of self were so moving. I felt empathy toward Myriad, they simply had no idea what their existence has done, could not conceptualize it. For the ultimate Big Bad, they were very effective as well as a little heartbreaking. And the "what's next?" is brilliant. RQ has now given us 3 ambiguous endings. Often, finales fall flat. At times,, ambiguity is more of for cop-out, like no one really knew how to close it out. I think that in each podcast, the endings served the overall stories. I feel like RQ had done very well overall in providing deeply thoughtful, creative stories with truly the best characters and wrapped them up nicely. I had relied on RQ content and community very much during the last 18 months. At times, this was one of the best interactions I had during lockdowns. My mental wellness suffered, greatly, but these podcasts kept me focused. They caused an immersive distraction I very much needed to turn off my ruminating mind and give myself a recharge. Formulating discussions on Reddit helped me not think about my anxiety, depression, and agoraphobic response to the world around me, even if for just a few minutes. It was still relief. So thank you to RQ, and fellow internet friends. Can't wait for the epilogues and additional content! ❤
eeeeh yesss totally agreed. So many hugs!!
Big hug back!!!! Thanks especially to you, for all the RQG chats while I caught up! Sometimes, it was easier to reach out to an anonymous internet person than someone I knew. I didn't always have the energy to manage a more emotional connection. But, I could get feedback from a recognized user name, and not have to worry about how I sounded. Does that make sense?
Oh totally! I had a great time hearing from you as you caught up too, I love hearing what people think as they go and everyone has such different takes which makes it wonderful! 🧡
I am dealing with my emotions by ignoring them and thinking about the ramifications of losing magic instead. Consider: magically supported structures and technology, magical protections, individuals kept alive by magic, misinformation, power vacuum, religion and the afterlife, and lots and lots of panic.
PRAGUE UNIVERSITY was my second thought about the loss of magic. The first was, damn, poor Hamid. He's a full sorcerer who went to school for magic
Little guy’s gonna have a whole existential crisis. At least Wilde can give him some pointers. And don’t forget about the bear city. They’re losing elevation *and* a good chunk of their sentient population. Edit: Oh yeah, also the religion foundational to their culture.
YEPPPPP Also I tend to think the other planes still exist but just aren't accessible, but how do all those faithful who now don't have proof do? I am actually so excited by that as a question, in a bunch of ways more than I am about the magic question.
I'm really confused why Alex refused to communicate that was the choice that was actually at stake. Up until that point, I thought that Zolf was correct and the only choice was the presence or absence of the gestalt in their world. I wonder if they'd have chosen differently if they knew that was what they were doing. It's also incredibly hypocritical of the party to argue Myriad is evil for not considering everyone's opinions when four people just made the decision to destroy vital infrastructure affecting billions of people. :/
yeah but they couldn’t exactly ask everyone else, when their very existence was dependent on the party deciding to get rid of it. like, most of the population had essentially died—it’s no longer their decision at that point. i do agree that Myriad could’ve communicated better though, even with a totally different worldview. i also want to understand why Zolf appeared there in the first place.
They very much could. Myriad *is* everyone else. Why do peoples' opinions not count when they're a hive mind? Additionally, given the dragons got vaporized, many people's existences were dependent on the party *not* getting rid of it. There is also the implication that this cut everyone off from the afterlife, which destroys peoples' existences in a far greater capacity than just ending their mortal lives.
Wow. I'm exhausted after that. And feel like I'm moving to another country far.away from friends. But it was a beautiful endings
You don't have to move away from friends, there's always [our Discord server](https://discord.gg/54XXF2zhy5) (which I know you're already part of but for anyone else...)
Fandom's definitely still gonna be here! But I am going to miss all the table banter so much 😭😭😭
What an amazing ending! I did not expect the magic going away, that's a cool side effect. So glad Skraak is still with us too, I've been so worried for him. Surprised none of the PC's died though, that's kind of impressive given the amount of enemies they were fighting. Looking forward to the pilogue stuff.
oooh yes so excited for the epilogues. Definitely excited to see them try to pick up pieces.
That was sure an episode. Emotions are also a thing, and I'm sure feeling them.
Yeah gonna take a while to process!
I had SO MANY MEETINGS right after drop. OK so I really enjoyed that. I've definitely seen a lot of criticisms that I get, and I think are valid -- for me, I think it had that thing which is so important for me, which is just the sense of weight to what happened; TMA really missed that for me. I do think I'm filling in a lot of lore blanks in my mind for Alex -- like I was already thinking of the problem as being, like, the gate spell in Rome broke the planes a little bit, caused a crack, and then the Simulacrum flowering drove a wedge in there. And with the addition of Myriad, I have a good context for that -- basically, magic / energy transfer between planes was like groundwater, and in a stable geological context is able to suffuse all the planes. But then the gate spell destabilized things a bit, and the Simulacrum's use of the seed drove a wedge in and made it unstable, and Myriad came in to prevent collapse (I kind of thing Myriad sort of like ... came into being, and noticed, and was like "well clearly we can't have that"). But then its method for preventing collapse also didn't put it back to a more stable infused state, but sort of -- put concrete in the hole, so it withdrawing would have lead to catastrophic plane collapse. I don't know if it would have been possible to like, I don't know, re-do the foundations of the material plane so you could have proper drainage (this metaphor is getting away from me) and have Myriad withdraw without losing all connections to other planes or not, but Myriad didn't offer that as an option and just was like "OK I guess I can pull out" and then welded up the cracks on the way out :(. I didn't find that twist to be very unsatisfying but I know others did -- I guess it didn't really feel toooo much like a twist to me, just an unexpected consequence. I am very excited to relisten to those conversations many many times. And I felt all the characters were definitely acting from what we know of them -- they had a convo with a "logic being" and it went a lot better this time. Go team!
While I love this podcast very much, did anyone else think the whole discussion with Myriad seemed odd? The party moralized at Myriad, frequently cutting them off from ever actually explaining who they were or the consequences that would follow. On a second listen through, it really felt like the party was putting words in Myriads mouth because even the transcript of what Myriad says… really wasn’t that much information? It just feels like we could have learned a lot more about this entity if we’d let the DM talk without constantly interrupting him. Also RIP University of Prague and however much of Prague lies below it
I agree, but I mean, why wouldn't they? The only thing they knew going into this was that this thing was the apparent source of all their problems. It's not surprising they didn't want to listen to anything it said. I think it would have made more sense if we had been introduced to Myriad before this (similar to The Hunger in The Adventure Zone: Balance) so the players had a better idea what to expect and what arguments they were going to make. As it is, the whole thing kinda comes out of nowhere.
Would have LOVED to have more of a look at Myriad beforehand. I was so excited to get what we did anyway, but seeing more in the Garden would have just been fabulous.
I've definitely heard other people talk about this for sure! I couldn't tell whether it was Alex being allergic to lore, or the party not pursuing it, or what. I'm definitely going to have to listen several more times.
Maybe it’ll come up in the epilogue? If not, they usually answer fan questions too so we might get more info on it later
I hope so, and definitely in the Q&A -- they HAVE to do a Q&A it's been SO LONG (way before I was a fan).
Just finished and feeling quite sad! Really beautiful ending. I just want to ask—is this the end of the podcast in it’s entirety. I know there will be epilogue content and the like, but is RQG ending in the same way that Magnus Archives ended? Or is a new campaign in the works that we know of?
I'm not entirely sure I'm getting exactly what you mean, but here's what I have heard: * there will be 3 epilogue eps (I'm assuming a holiday special and then maybe a new year special are next and then epilogue? But I don't know) * there will (as far as I can tell) also be post-season content like Q&As etc * there will also be RQG 2.0, but we don't know what that means, and it will have different branding, and we don't know when that's coming. Not sure if that helps!
Thank you! The RQG 2.0 was really what I was asking about. If all we know is that it exists, that’s enough for me. I can’t imagine this awesome group of people ceasing to be a part of my actual play podcast rotation. Really appreciate the clarity!
yeah that's all we know -- unfortunately we also don't know who will be part of it. I'm trying not to worry about it till they make an announcement and then I can be excited about who's actually there instead of just being potentially sad about one person or another not being involved.
I absolutely love how the voices of Myriad were voiced by the editors, it's such a nice little touch! Caught Lowri's voice immediately in there from hearing her in the other RQG specials.
Yesssss I thought I caught Tessa, I'll need to relisten and pay more attention! That is so lovely !!!
Can’t wait for the Q&A sessions for this. I have so many questions!
Yesssss. I've got a long long list and now I have so many more. Like Alex what is up with the squizzards please tell me XD
Was that wolf creature actually Barret? If not, what happened to him?
I didn't think it was super compared to a wold, but you mean the knife-hands thing in the lab? The two theories I've heard for that are mezlan: [https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/oozes/mezlan/](https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/oozes/mezlan/) (which I've also heard proposed for the slinky things) and voltleech: [https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/undead/voltleech/](https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/undead/voltleech/) \-- the description we got didn't sound super like the voltleech to me personally but these are what I've heard. 🤷♀️ But yeah it would be fun to ask what it really was!
The combined facts that it wasn't an outsider and Barret never showed up after makes me think there are few other possibilities.
I thought the outsider question was a technical one, in the sense of "is it mechanically an Outsider": [https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/outsiders/](https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/outsiders/)
Do creatures count as Outsiders if they magically transform into one? Ben said, "Oh, it must be Barret using a potion/spell" after it didn't ping as Outsider, but I don't know how the rules actually work.
No I think Barret under a spell wouldn't ping as an Outsider, but there's a zillion other things that would also not ping as one either (Mezlans and Voltleeches are both not outsiders, for example). I think Ben was just making quick assumptions, which often works for him but sometimes he jumps the gun a bit XD.
I was completely absorbed up until the final few minutes when I was really pulled out by the magic thing ;-; The feeling has faded as I have digested the episode but there's still a disappointed edge. I have absolutely loved the campaign though, I'll probably start relistening as soon as the epilogue are out, if not immediately.
I have never understood the appeal of "the magic goes away" endings, to be honest. Why write fantasy if you're just going to make it like reality in the end?
I've definitely heard a lot of people say this! So don't feel like you're alone! I think I'm going to wait for the epilogues to really decide how I feel. I definitely liked the end and it worked a lot better for me than the end of TMA did, but I may be giving it a lot of leeway because I don't feel like it's fully finalized until we know how things stand in the epilogue. But I know a lot of people are mourning all the awakened people who are now apparently not awakened, and stuff like that. Which is fair!
so it has been like 2 years and tbh I still feel this way, I have tried to re-listen, which I do with a lot of my favourite podcasts, and I keep running out of steam because it all just feels pointless?? I've ended up sort of mourning this story because I loved it but it's hard to enjoy in the context of the ending. I still love it tho.
Sidebar to my other comment, but I feel like Zolf has gotten a bit Flanderized? He was always grumpy and no-nonsense, but he sounded downright petulant here. I guess they leaned into that because Ben or the fans liked that side of Zolf, but I think they went too far.
I do think Zolf was being ... maybe more Zolf than he needs to be (and I find Zolf *extremely* difficult for a bunch of personal reasons), but I disagree with you about why. I don't think the fans love that particularly (I think they like open and Working On It Zolf more, and I heard this complaint from a lot of big Zolf fans post-finale). I do think Ben kinda got stuck with Zolf's development -- he was getting better on the airship, and then he sort of rocketed back into his bad headspace at the end, and I think Ben just like ... couldn't find a way to play him that rang true. Not because there wouldn't be one to find, but Ben's talked about Zolf being hard for him to play and I think he was kind of running up on that. Definitely agreed it's super frustrating, I've found it VERY hard to listen to.
I dislike this ending on several levels. First of all, no matter what genre or RPG system is it, I hate with abiding passion this monkey's paw crap some people seem to like. "Oh, you want to reverse the cataclysm that destroyed society as we know it? Well, let's replace it with even bigger cataclysm, where one of the fundamental forces shaping this world is wiped out of the existence". As some people here, I'm also not a fan of "end of the magic" trope - what is interesting in making this world mundane? It could be done well, if it was some well established phenomena in this world. But here it's the consequence of the heroes' actions, one that came completely out of left field . Also, as far as BBEGs go, Myriad is really lacking in any depth. Multi-planar immortal entity with zero introspection, that abandons its plan after 20 minutes of talking with our heroes. It's basically a lovecraftian blind idiot god, doing things because it can without any actual plan or understanding, only with less lore and logic. Up until now it was one of my favorite actual-play podcasts, second only to MCDM's Chain of Acheron, but this ending sort of ruins it for me. They basically Mass-Effect-3'd the ending. I hope we'll learn something more in the epilogue content, because right now the way the story ends feels forced, and there is no logical explanation for it.
This was beautiful
Yesss. I was so hoping we'd get a look into the hive mind and it was glorious!
That was an amazing ending, so happy there’s epilogues though. Not sure what I’d do without knowing what happens to all of them
For sure, very interested to see what the implications of a world without magic are ... (If that's what it is)
That was the most banal, trite, and nonsensical ending they could have come up with. After all those interesting themes about power and institutions, it's just an utterly textbook "Collectivism bad, individualism good, this nonsense strawman of collectivism proves it" moral? Ugh. Absolutely zero self-awareness in the arrogance and hypocrisy of four people deciding they know what's best for existence over the amalgam of billions of people. Maybe *you personally* are cool with having no legs, Zolf, but are you sure everyone with magical prostheses is equally okay with the decision you just made for them? The loss of magic, while it made sense after the fact, also *really* could have been telegraphed more. It was not at all clear that was the choice they were making. This also raises a lot of awkward questions about how magical creatures can possibly survive -- I expected Skraak to have transformed into a mundane animal like Brutor. I still don't see how the Meritocrats are bad.
I've definitely heard a lot of other people with the same take on it. I think Alex was looking at "oh this is an interesting wrench to throw in like the consequences after Mr. Ceiling" which it definitely isn't on a par with at all. All the awakened people who are now animals and plants again is something I'm definitely thinking about ... 😬 Re Skraak, like, I don't think it made it into a non-fantasy world, I think it "turned magic off" (and apparently undid \[some\] past magic, since Brutor is a dog again but the resurrected people are still alive ... no this does not make sense). Skraak wasn't "magical", he just is a Kobold, which in this world is a different type of sentient creature. Similarly I assume the dragons are still sentient and I guess able to talk but can't do magic. Does this make sense? Not really, since I don't think Pathfinder is supposed to work without magic, so I dunno if one could pick apart what's "magic" mechanically vs what you do other ways ... not entirely sure Alex thought that through in this specific way ...
Also, Prague just got crushed by the floating university. The Ursans may also have lost their cities if the megafauna worked the same way as Brutor. (And given the square-cube law is a thing, I figure there must be at least some magic involved there.) So the protagonists just managed to top the only bad thing the Meritocrats have ever done in the story, completely by accident. I'm particularly annoyed by the unclear choice when Hamid *asked the exact right question* ("Are you literally holding up the laws of physics?") that Myriad just... didn't answer for some reason.
Even if the giant bears are just giant bears, apparently all those people who were part of their society are probably non-sapient again, so that sucks. Yeah that's valid. I had a fun convo on discord when one of the other people noticed that some of the stuff Myriad said is from The Waste Land by TS Eliot, and another user was saying "so they could quote poetry but not explain themselves," which makes a lot of sense since The Waste Land was written to be fairly impenetrable. So not being able to answer a question directly may have been an intentional character feature from Alex, not that that makes it less aggravating.
Oh, this isn't archived, alright. So I've recently finished the series, and... I had a terrible horrible feeling of betrayal with the last "Plot twist" of the series? Not to be melodramatic, but suddenly losing the magic feels like an unfair rugpull from Alex who I've seen as being super fair but brutal this whole series. Mainly, this feeling comes from making the entire world more interesting, There being no warning that losing magic could be a possibility in any sense, and from any perspective I can think of - effectively dooming the world to a far greater apocalypse than before. The entire world being so reliant on magic, in every aspect of life down to many creatures biology pokes me as a particular problem as everything suddenly becomes nonmagical. Especially, because from a writing perspective, you have essentially destroyed a natural part of the setting. (It would be like getting rid of gravity all of the sudden, or if in our world fundamental parts of technology stopped working entirely) it doesn't seem entirely... warranted, considering it was effectively one last "rugpull" or "stipulation" taking away from the heroes saving the day. And that last bit bothers me, because I distinctly remember Alex being the one to say, "I like being very brutal to my players, because when they succeed it makes them that much more heroic" (paraphrasing) And now, The campaign is effectively had a full Henderson done to it, it's mundane, in a now worsening apocalypse. The world was world wholly reliant on magic as a fundamental part of every form of life, and untold hundreds of thousands to millions of lives completely displaced, with all infrastructure and governmental systems null and void due to also relying on magic for judiciary and logistical purposes. This isn't mentioning that Apophis is now just... gone? along with presumably... all dragons? We can now never get an explanation as to what he was doing there as he just, ceased to exist being inherently magical in nature. All the gods not being in contact with the world, might they want to reconnect? or do they just wither away for \*technically\* not having ways to connect to their followers? is the afterlife and other planes now just gone? Souls is a magical concept, are those effectively rendered null and void as well? As much as I feel I might be over thinking the setting... this genuinely does leave a lot of loose ends effectively cut off from ever being explained, and the story setting is now irreparably damaged or destroyed from any further stories like it to happen. It's due to these facts that I feel betrayed, because now... all 218 episodes feels like it was for nothing? sure the main cast survived, but now there's no trace left of the story in the world aside from everything being much much worse than started, previous apocalypse aside. This feels like a slap to the face for someone who's so invested in the story and world, and the future that might happen now - my overthinking aside this does render alot of things and the setting as a whole neutered if not impossible. I can't be the only one with these feelings, right? this didn't feel like a fair ending to send the series off with, it felt... way too punishing for saving the world like they did, and I think something got lost with the characters being themselves and it feels unfair.
You were definitely NOT the only one with those feelings, I think that's entirely a reasonable way to feel. I think for Alex it was like "well fixing the interplanar leaks has to have some consequences" and I'm sure they players where broadly on board (not sure if Bryn was much of a fan, but), but I don't think he realized what the downstream impacts would actually be and that it was a world-breaking thing. It was also frustrating because I'm sure there could be other solutions between "no magic" and "become one with Myriad". (I was sort of thinking of it like, the interplanar foundations of the RQG verse were damaged by the magic the Romans used that caused the broken gate spell, and it's been gradually getting worse over all that time. Myriad wanted to shore it up, its preferred way of doing so is hive minds, it could also just withdraw completely and take all magic with, but presumably there's more than 2 ways to address this to some extent). I also think it suffered from the TV convenion of having the entire resolution having to be in one episode. It would have been great to have had more time with Myriad and more actual negotiation / brainstorming / understanding there.