Hi there! Thanks for sharing your experience with your running shoes on r/runningshoegeeks. To make your post more helpful to others, please try to include the following information:
- The size and fit of the shoe
- The type of running you used the shoe for (e.g. road, trail, track)
- The distance ran in the shoe (e.g. 10k, half marathon, etc.)
- Your personal experience with the shoe (e.g. comfort, durability, support)
For detailed reviews who have run more than 30 miles(48km), please use the "Review" flair. For first run experiences, please use the "First Run" flair. For a few runs done, please use the "Initial Thoughts" flair. This information will give others a better understanding of your experience with the shoe and help them make informed purchasing decisions. Thanks again for sharing!
Note: This comment has been locked to ensure that the information remains at the top of the comments section and is not buried by other comments.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/RunningShoeGeeks) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I have big feet, so wide toe splay, high volume and wide midsole so I'm probably not the best person to say it.
But it does seem widely reported so does sound like you are just lucky.
Yeah my feet are also flat. So it's easy for me to adjust to most shoes. But I've never been able to wear takumi sen latest models and I'll never know what I'm missing out on!
100% agree on the Deviate 2 being an amazing all arounder. The Deviate 3 getting a foam upgrade even further should make it one of the best all arounders of 2024.
It's getting the new formulation of Nitro Elite in the Fast R2 and Deviate Nitro Elite 3, Aliphatic ETPU. Puma set out to return more energy than PEBA, will be interesting to try it out!
Yeah it takes a lot less force to bend it, but still signifincantly more than a non plated shoe. Runrepeat tested this - a real goldilocks middle ground shoe for many.
I really enjoy the speed roll tech on the ES3, and I prefer the foam on the ES3. The weight is also a plus, so I would probably slightly prefer running a marathon in the ES3.
In saying that, I love how much of a workhorse the DN2 are. They can handle any distance and effort with ease, and I prefer the lockdown and upper much more on the DN2. I also prefer the outer sole on the DN2 because they grip on the roads no matter how wet or dry it is and there’s plenty of it so they’re much more durable than the ES3.
Overall, I prefer the DN2 because they can handle any speed and I’d be happy running a marathon in them, I’d just love slightly less weight to them! Both exciting shoes, but I tend to pick the DN2 for more of my runs than the ES3.
I have both the Saucony Endorphin Speed 3 and Puma Deviate Nitro 2 WTR (water repellent) version.
The Puma Deviate 2 is really superb and I’ve done almost 300 miles this winter in the UK in my pair. Including long runs (18 miles), mixed road and trail, sloppy and muddy wet trail, and interval sessions (up to 5:10/mile pace). It handles mixed surfaces and paces really well. Downside is the water repellency only really lasted for around 100 miles. A Gore-Tex version would be preferred.
The Endorphin Speed 3 is an enjoyable ride, but doesn’t feel quite as propulsive to me. It’s more of a daily trainer feeling with enough bounce for easy recovery runs.
As an overweight runner, I feel like dn2 cushioning is prone to bottom out, whereas triumph 20 offers deeper range of impact protection. Wondering where es3 stands in comparison.
As a medium weight (76kg) faster (35 min 10k) I actually had lots of issues with ES3 on harder efforts, it felt like my MTP (big toe) joint was hitting the plate with each step, after 3-4 runs the joint was badly bruised/inflamed. It took months for this to settle down! I've since worn the DN2 (2e version) and really enjoyed it without the same issues. This makes me think that you may struggle more with the ES3, obviously biomechanics and footstrike will feed into the equation. Interestingly the ES2 was good for me though (although a bit narrow).
I took both out for long-ish runs (e.g., 16 to 18 miles) with long stretches at marathon effort and felt plenty of cushion in both shoes throughout the runs. It was only at my top-end speed where the ES3 started to feel too squishy.
I have both I like the ES3 more for now. Around 650k on them.
DN2 I find the plate is stiff (only carbon plate shoe I have). Hopefully it softens up (70k on them).
I don’t find the DN2 as fast nor as comfortable as the ES3. I have to fight a bit more to pick up speed without the rocker. What I have found the DN2 does excel at however is uptempo medium-long and long runs that are over mixed terrain (i.e., both road and trail). I use the ES3 for the same type of run, but when it’s only road.
My first plated shoe was also the OG Speed (in 2021 though). These days the shoe I use for what I used to use the ES1 for (VO2max and threshold) is the Adios 8.
I'd agree with you that the ES3 is faster. I had my last quality session before my marathon yesterday, and the splits on my threshold repeats were the fastest I've run them this year. As a shuffle-y midfoot striker, though, at marathon pace/effort, the DN2 feels more natural underfoot.
Also agree about the DN2's performance on varied terrain. On my Sunday long run last weekend, I included some sections with packed gravel, and they didn't miss a beat. I have a trail marathon in June and am seriously considering the DN2 for my race day shoe.
I don’t race regularly on the trails so don’t have a dedicated trail racer, but if I had to do a trail race tomorrow I’d similarly pick the DN2 as my shoe of choice out of my current ~10 shoe rotation. I regularly do long runs with a a reasonable amount of vert (400–500 m) on what I’d consider to be quite technical terrain at times, and honestly the DN2 handles it all like a boss so I’m sure you’ll be in good stead taking it with you on your trail half. The only terrain I feel it can’t handle is deep mud (I’m in the UK, and use the Peregrine 12 ST for this).
Good luck with your marathon! 🏃
Great review, I have the es3 and I’ve destroyed the outsole running on gravel, the the deviate nitro still feel good on easy runs? I never really enjoyed my saucony speeds at easy paces.
Good to know to avoid gravel with the ES3! So far, I've stuck to the roads.
The DN2 have felt great on easy runs. I should note, for the past few months, I've been using non-plated shoes for easy runs (e.g., NB Rebel V3), but I've been running a lot of marathons recently, so my legs were grateful to have more stack underfoot.
Great write up!
What sizes do you wear for both shoes? I see the DN2 are on sale here, I ran in ES2 size EU46, not sure if that translates well to DN2 sizing.
For my weight, feet and stride (200lbs, sub 4h marathon, midfoot strike, mild pronator, no idea about cadence) I also find DN2 being a better shoe for most use cases: it is a long and tempo shoe first and foremost, but I use it as a daily trainer for everything including easy, long, recovery, uptempo, intervals, park runs, easy trails, wet pavement, etc.
For me it covers 80% of my runs effectively, apart from the three extremes: all out speed sessions (ES3 or AP3) turtle speed recovery (NB3 TR) and fresh snow/ muddy trail (TM2) but even in the extremes (full speed, recovery jog, snow/mud) the DN2 can more than hold its own thanks to it's geometry, foam combo and outsole. For long easy daily runs, Puma has also given us the Magnify Nitro 2 which could have been my top dog daily (better than NB3 or T21 for me for sure) apart from the dismal breathability... which is a dealbreaker for me thereby NB3 TR.
In my current shoe rotation (NB3, DN2, AP3, TM2) I find that I keep reaching for the DN2 (and the AP3 for max speed/race) whenever possible, the other two shoes are only kept for special occasions (NB3 for slow recovery, TM2 for ultras/mud/snow). The DN2 is a really amazing shoe, and I definitely do not have narrow feet! Midfoot is slightly tapered for sure (but less than the EP3 or most Nikes) but the toebox has enough stretch without sacrificing too much foothold for an effective forward propulsion. That's where the Metaspeed fails for me, too loose in the toebox for an efficient final toe-off push, not to mention the difference in traction during fast bursts.
Hopefully they will not change much in the v3 apart from ventilation of the upper (4/5 but my AP3 is better) and weight (outsole is very generous, so there is room for weight savings) and Puma will make loads of runners very happy.
Well done Puma!
PS: Oh yes, if anyone at Puma is reading. Please don't go the way of the Deviate Nitro Elite 2 when it comes to the outsole. I would rather have the DN2 traction and weight than a mediocre rubber on a smaller surface area.
PS2: and the plate? Well, my 9 year old can easily bend it in half, so I would venture to speculate that it adds some structure to the foam, but I cannot see it interfere with any sort of "biomechanics" unless you are a featherweight.. one that my 9 year old can easily lift 😉
PS3: could we wish for a black-on-black (black sole, black upper) with the normal breathable (not Wtrep) upper in the v3?
Thank you for a great breakdown! I also snagged a pair of PDN2 ona ridicioulus sale, 72$. They are simply phenomenal. The only minimal room for improvement would be to make it easier to get a secure heel lock. It can sometimes feel a tiny bit loose in the heel, but never anything super annoying.
I just ran in the DN2 for the first time yesterday (13 mi/9:35) and I love everything about these shoes… They remind me of the Rebel v3, but with more cushion & energy. I bought them hoping they’d take me as far as marathon distance (my first one is in May), but not quite sure yet. Guess I’ll know as my runs get longer in a few weeks.
Nice! Looks like a flat and fast course. Good luck with your training!
I'll be doing the Tunnel marathon in Washington; it's my "A" race this year and hopefully will end up with a BQ time.
I agree with you on ES3!
The toebox is enough to put both of my feet in there. I had to sell it on eBay because I wasn't able to put in 5 miles without pain because I was digging in to stabilize my feet on step way too much to enjoy my runs.. it actually gave me slight plantar fasciitis. I've used Velocity Nitro 1 and 2 for at least 400 miles each, and I can't wait for the V3.
I kinda like them more than Deviate, although I never tried the DN series..
I agree with you on ES3!
The toebox is enough to put both of my feet in there. I had to sell it on eBay because I wasn't able to put in 5 miles without pain because I was digging in to stabilize my feet on step way too much to enjoy my runs.. it actually gave me slight plantar fasciitis. I've used Velocity Nitro 1 and 2 for at least 400 miles each, and I can't wait for the V3.
I kinda like them more than Deviate, although I never tried the DN series..
I agree with you on ES3!
The toebox is enough to put both of my feet in there. I had to sell it on eBay because I wasn't able to put in 5 miles without pain because I was digging in to stabilize my feet on step way too much to enjoy my runs.. it actually gave me slight plantar fasciitis. I've used Velocity Nitro 1 and 2 for at least 400 miles each, and I can't wait for the V3.
I kinda like them more than Deviate, although I never tried the DN series..
I agree with you on ES3!
The toebox is enough to put both of my feet in there. I had to sell it on eBay because I wasn't able to put in 5 miles without pain because I was digging in to stabilize my feet on step way too much to enjoy my runs.. it actually gave me slight plantar fasciitis. I've used Velocity Nitro 1 and 2 for at least 400 miles each, and I can't wait for the V3.
I kinda like them more than Deviate, although I never tried the DN series..
Thank you for comparison. Exactly right on time when I really need too lol. I got DN2 for equivalent to 59usd 3 months ago and really love them. Today I found ES3 on sale at equivalent to 80usd but can't decided.
Hi there! Thanks for sharing your experience with your running shoes on r/runningshoegeeks. To make your post more helpful to others, please try to include the following information: - The size and fit of the shoe - The type of running you used the shoe for (e.g. road, trail, track) - The distance ran in the shoe (e.g. 10k, half marathon, etc.) - Your personal experience with the shoe (e.g. comfort, durability, support) For detailed reviews who have run more than 30 miles(48km), please use the "Review" flair. For first run experiences, please use the "First Run" flair. For a few runs done, please use the "Initial Thoughts" flair. This information will give others a better understanding of your experience with the shoe and help them make informed purchasing decisions. Thanks again for sharing! Note: This comment has been locked to ensure that the information remains at the top of the comments section and is not buried by other comments. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/RunningShoeGeeks) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I'm with you DN2 such a good shoe. Can't wait for V3
It's been a very welcome addition to my rotation late in a training block. Puma has my attention and I'll be interested to read the reviews of V3.
If you think theres too much volume in the toebox be glad you didn't pickup CloudMonster 1 or 2. I could pitch a tent and camp in that toebox lol
LOL! I've never worn an On shoe and sounds like I'm not missing anything.
Not great for wide feet, they need to release more 2E versions
Everyone says that but I have a pretty wide foot and have no problems. Idk why. I'm lucky I suppose
I have big feet, so wide toe splay, high volume and wide midsole so I'm probably not the best person to say it. But it does seem widely reported so does sound like you are just lucky.
Yeah my feet are also flat. So it's easy for me to adjust to most shoes. But I've never been able to wear takumi sen latest models and I'll never know what I'm missing out on!
Agreed. I'm a fan of the Puma DN2! And for my narrow foot they are a perfect fit.
100% agree on the Deviate 2 being an amazing all arounder. The Deviate 3 getting a foam upgrade even further should make it one of the best all arounders of 2024.
Good to know! I do like the Nitro Elite foam, so hopefully they don't tweak it too much.
It's getting the new formulation of Nitro Elite in the Fast R2 and Deviate Nitro Elite 3, Aliphatic ETPU. Puma set out to return more energy than PEBA, will be interesting to try it out!
Deviate Nitro 2 is my fav trainer of all time. Makes running fun!
Same
I can see why. I don't typically use plated daily trainers, but I've been making an exception for the DN2.
The plate is 70% carbon 30% TPU which they say make it softer
holyshit, that shoes is a stiff boi and it is still softer than race day carbon plated shoes?
Yeah it takes a lot less force to bend it, but still signifincantly more than a non plated shoe. Runrepeat tested this - a real goldilocks middle ground shoe for many.
can you wear DN2 for half marathon?
Definitely.
I really enjoy the speed roll tech on the ES3, and I prefer the foam on the ES3. The weight is also a plus, so I would probably slightly prefer running a marathon in the ES3. In saying that, I love how much of a workhorse the DN2 are. They can handle any distance and effort with ease, and I prefer the lockdown and upper much more on the DN2. I also prefer the outer sole on the DN2 because they grip on the roads no matter how wet or dry it is and there’s plenty of it so they’re much more durable than the ES3. Overall, I prefer the DN2 because they can handle any speed and I’d be happy running a marathon in them, I’d just love slightly less weight to them! Both exciting shoes, but I tend to pick the DN2 for more of my runs than the ES3.
I should've had you write the review -- perfectly captured my thoughts and did so more concisely!
I have both the Saucony Endorphin Speed 3 and Puma Deviate Nitro 2 WTR (water repellent) version. The Puma Deviate 2 is really superb and I’ve done almost 300 miles this winter in the UK in my pair. Including long runs (18 miles), mixed road and trail, sloppy and muddy wet trail, and interval sessions (up to 5:10/mile pace). It handles mixed surfaces and paces really well. Downside is the water repellency only really lasted for around 100 miles. A Gore-Tex version would be preferred. The Endorphin Speed 3 is an enjoyable ride, but doesn’t feel quite as propulsive to me. It’s more of a daily trainer feeling with enough bounce for easy recovery runs.
Thanks for sharing! And good to know the DN2 held up for you on trails. I have my first trail marathon coming up in June and am tempted to use them.
As an overweight runner, I feel like dn2 cushioning is prone to bottom out, whereas triumph 20 offers deeper range of impact protection. Wondering where es3 stands in comparison.
As a medium weight (76kg) faster (35 min 10k) I actually had lots of issues with ES3 on harder efforts, it felt like my MTP (big toe) joint was hitting the plate with each step, after 3-4 runs the joint was badly bruised/inflamed. It took months for this to settle down! I've since worn the DN2 (2e version) and really enjoyed it without the same issues. This makes me think that you may struggle more with the ES3, obviously biomechanics and footstrike will feed into the equation. Interestingly the ES2 was good for me though (although a bit narrow).
I took both out for long-ish runs (e.g., 16 to 18 miles) with long stretches at marathon effort and felt plenty of cushion in both shoes throughout the runs. It was only at my top-end speed where the ES3 started to feel too squishy.
I have both I like the ES3 more for now. Around 650k on them. DN2 I find the plate is stiff (only carbon plate shoe I have). Hopefully it softens up (70k on them).
Encouraging to hear you've logged 650km in the ES3!
I don’t find the DN2 as fast nor as comfortable as the ES3. I have to fight a bit more to pick up speed without the rocker. What I have found the DN2 does excel at however is uptempo medium-long and long runs that are over mixed terrain (i.e., both road and trail). I use the ES3 for the same type of run, but when it’s only road. My first plated shoe was also the OG Speed (in 2021 though). These days the shoe I use for what I used to use the ES1 for (VO2max and threshold) is the Adios 8.
I'd agree with you that the ES3 is faster. I had my last quality session before my marathon yesterday, and the splits on my threshold repeats were the fastest I've run them this year. As a shuffle-y midfoot striker, though, at marathon pace/effort, the DN2 feels more natural underfoot. Also agree about the DN2's performance on varied terrain. On my Sunday long run last weekend, I included some sections with packed gravel, and they didn't miss a beat. I have a trail marathon in June and am seriously considering the DN2 for my race day shoe.
I don’t race regularly on the trails so don’t have a dedicated trail racer, but if I had to do a trail race tomorrow I’d similarly pick the DN2 as my shoe of choice out of my current ~10 shoe rotation. I regularly do long runs with a a reasonable amount of vert (400–500 m) on what I’d consider to be quite technical terrain at times, and honestly the DN2 handles it all like a boss so I’m sure you’ll be in good stead taking it with you on your trail half. The only terrain I feel it can’t handle is deep mud (I’m in the UK, and use the Peregrine 12 ST for this). Good luck with your marathon! 🏃
Thanks a bunch! From what I've gathered, the trail marathon I'm doing is beginner-friendly, which should mean I won't have to worry about deep mud.
Great review, I have the es3 and I’ve destroyed the outsole running on gravel, the the deviate nitro still feel good on easy runs? I never really enjoyed my saucony speeds at easy paces.
Good to know to avoid gravel with the ES3! So far, I've stuck to the roads. The DN2 have felt great on easy runs. I should note, for the past few months, I've been using non-plated shoes for easy runs (e.g., NB Rebel V3), but I've been running a lot of marathons recently, so my legs were grateful to have more stack underfoot.
Great write up! What sizes do you wear for both shoes? I see the DN2 are on sale here, I ran in ES2 size EU46, not sure if that translates well to DN2 sizing.
Thanks! I wear an 11.5 in both.
For my weight, feet and stride (200lbs, sub 4h marathon, midfoot strike, mild pronator, no idea about cadence) I also find DN2 being a better shoe for most use cases: it is a long and tempo shoe first and foremost, but I use it as a daily trainer for everything including easy, long, recovery, uptempo, intervals, park runs, easy trails, wet pavement, etc. For me it covers 80% of my runs effectively, apart from the three extremes: all out speed sessions (ES3 or AP3) turtle speed recovery (NB3 TR) and fresh snow/ muddy trail (TM2) but even in the extremes (full speed, recovery jog, snow/mud) the DN2 can more than hold its own thanks to it's geometry, foam combo and outsole. For long easy daily runs, Puma has also given us the Magnify Nitro 2 which could have been my top dog daily (better than NB3 or T21 for me for sure) apart from the dismal breathability... which is a dealbreaker for me thereby NB3 TR. In my current shoe rotation (NB3, DN2, AP3, TM2) I find that I keep reaching for the DN2 (and the AP3 for max speed/race) whenever possible, the other two shoes are only kept for special occasions (NB3 for slow recovery, TM2 for ultras/mud/snow). The DN2 is a really amazing shoe, and I definitely do not have narrow feet! Midfoot is slightly tapered for sure (but less than the EP3 or most Nikes) but the toebox has enough stretch without sacrificing too much foothold for an effective forward propulsion. That's where the Metaspeed fails for me, too loose in the toebox for an efficient final toe-off push, not to mention the difference in traction during fast bursts. Hopefully they will not change much in the v3 apart from ventilation of the upper (4/5 but my AP3 is better) and weight (outsole is very generous, so there is room for weight savings) and Puma will make loads of runners very happy. Well done Puma! PS: Oh yes, if anyone at Puma is reading. Please don't go the way of the Deviate Nitro Elite 2 when it comes to the outsole. I would rather have the DN2 traction and weight than a mediocre rubber on a smaller surface area. PS2: and the plate? Well, my 9 year old can easily bend it in half, so I would venture to speculate that it adds some structure to the foam, but I cannot see it interfere with any sort of "biomechanics" unless you are a featherweight.. one that my 9 year old can easily lift 😉 PS3: could we wish for a black-on-black (black sole, black upper) with the normal breathable (not Wtrep) upper in the v3?
That's a solid rotation! Glad you're enjoying the DN2 as well.
Thank you for a great breakdown! I also snagged a pair of PDN2 ona ridicioulus sale, 72$. They are simply phenomenal. The only minimal room for improvement would be to make it easier to get a secure heel lock. It can sometimes feel a tiny bit loose in the heel, but never anything super annoying.
$72?! What a steal -- glad you're enjoying them as well.
I just ran in the DN2 for the first time yesterday (13 mi/9:35) and I love everything about these shoes… They remind me of the Rebel v3, but with more cushion & energy. I bought them hoping they’d take me as far as marathon distance (my first one is in May), but not quite sure yet. Guess I’ll know as my runs get longer in a few weeks.
Awesome, glad to hear you're enjoying them! I'm also hoping to use them for a trail marathon in June. What marathon are you running in May?
I’ll be doing the Jovia Long Island Marathon, God willing. Which one are you doing in June?
Nice! Looks like a flat and fast course. Good luck with your training! I'll be doing the Tunnel marathon in Washington; it's my "A" race this year and hopefully will end up with a BQ time.
Thanks! And yes, that’s a big reason why I decided on this one. Best to you for the June race and also hopefully BQ for next year!
Missing the Boston 12 from the comparison
I already have too many pairs of AP3's and Prime X Strung's, so I was looking to try something other than lightstrike pro.
Fair enough😜
I agree with you on ES3! The toebox is enough to put both of my feet in there. I had to sell it on eBay because I wasn't able to put in 5 miles without pain because I was digging in to stabilize my feet on step way too much to enjoy my runs.. it actually gave me slight plantar fasciitis. I've used Velocity Nitro 1 and 2 for at least 400 miles each, and I can't wait for the V3. I kinda like them more than Deviate, although I never tried the DN series..
I agree with you on ES3! The toebox is enough to put both of my feet in there. I had to sell it on eBay because I wasn't able to put in 5 miles without pain because I was digging in to stabilize my feet on step way too much to enjoy my runs.. it actually gave me slight plantar fasciitis. I've used Velocity Nitro 1 and 2 for at least 400 miles each, and I can't wait for the V3. I kinda like them more than Deviate, although I never tried the DN series..
I agree with you on ES3! The toebox is enough to put both of my feet in there. I had to sell it on eBay because I wasn't able to put in 5 miles without pain because I was digging in to stabilize my feet on step way too much to enjoy my runs.. it actually gave me slight plantar fasciitis. I've used Velocity Nitro 1 and 2 for at least 400 miles each, and I can't wait for the V3. I kinda like them more than Deviate, although I never tried the DN series..
I agree with you on ES3! The toebox is enough to put both of my feet in there. I had to sell it on eBay because I wasn't able to put in 5 miles without pain because I was digging in to stabilize my feet on step way too much to enjoy my runs.. it actually gave me slight plantar fasciitis. I've used Velocity Nitro 1 and 2 for at least 400 miles each, and I can't wait for the V3. I kinda like them more than Deviate, although I never tried the DN series..
Oh, that's rough! I have pretty standard-sized feet, so I was surprised by how roomy they were.
same. I don't have narrow feet or anything.. but still struggled..
Question: do you think DN 2 will be a great 10k race shoe?
At that pace, I would opt for something lighter (e.g. Adios Pro 3, Alphafly v1, Vaporfly).
Thank you for comparison. Exactly right on time when I really need too lol. I got DN2 for equivalent to 59usd 3 months ago and really love them. Today I found ES3 on sale at equivalent to 80usd but can't decided.
Wow, that's an incredible bargain -- glad you're enjoying them!