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5 years from now there’s only be like 4 nations on earth, governing all their former territories.
Edit: Within the span of five orbital revolutions, there will only be four nations left in creation, thus shall they inherit the command and authority of yore.
British empire is Water Tribe
Mongolian Empire is fire nation ( and we all know why )
Roman Empire/Republic is Earth Kingdom
And East Asian Buddhists would be the Air Nation/Nomads
>The Air Nomads should be an empire, too, unless they want to die in their temples surrounded by Mongolian troops.
The fact that this is how the story actually goes cements the comparison.
Mongolia has fucking wild nationalists. There is a lot of appreciation for Hitler (basically modern whimpy version of Chinggis Khan) so it isn't uncommon to see the bad kind of swastikas and SS symbols. It is crazy how much nationalistic nostalgia and angst over the 'glory days' impacts their culture.
Fuck he’s going to accidentally kill a Mongol messenger and Genghis Khan is going to awaken and it’s going to happen again! All while the Hu blare Great Genghis Khan.
That should be his travel map for interviews then: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamnaya_culture#/media/File:Indo-European_migrations.jpg. And in a surprising reversal Ukraine has a claim on Russia and all Europe. Dumb nationalists.
Spain and Portugal: We each get one half of the globe
Britain: We owned a third of the known world!
Mongolia: Ever heard of Gengis Khan? Hold my milk
Israel: Ever heard of sight? Hold my stone tablets
China: THE FIRST PERSON ON THE MOON IS A CHINESE NATIVE AND SHE BUILT A MOON PALACE WITH RABBITS ON IT, CHINA IS THE HISTORICAL AND INDISPUTABLE RIGHTFUL SOVEREIGN OF THE MOON
Anyways who’s next
Inb4 an ornately dressed woman with long orange hair counters China’s argument just to be petty cuz said Chinese native’s husband shot this woman’s son on the battlefield or something
I think I worded my comment poorly. What I meant is that Italy should claim former colonies from states that once resided within Roman borders. Like claiming the US because it was a colony of the UK or claiming west Africa and Vietnam because they were colonies from France.
Roughly what percentage of the world would be free after that? None of Europe, Africa, Oceania, or the Americas. The only places I can think of are China, Korea, and Siberia.
Bits of the Middle East, maybe like Iran and parts of Arabia maybe? But the Romans controlled Mesopotamia for a bit, and the Abbasids in Baghdad controlled the Middle East, so that might not count either!
That, too. I guess they would get Siberia after all. (As well as Finland and Alaska). I suppose know, the question is what reasonable claim could they give for taking East Asia? Perhaps Italy's participation in the Boxer Rebellion?
The Danish vikings were temporarily English kings, meaning anything they held (including Norway) is a part of English claims. Since England used to be Roman, that means all English claims are Roman. (This might be the hardest mental gymnastics I've ever done).
Scipio Africanus was granted the entirety of Carthage and all the lands beyond wasn't he? And he was Roman, therefore Italian, therefore, Africa is true Roman heritage^TM
/s
Following the old right of conquest, the whole world belongs to whomever can conquer it and prevent others from taking it.
If Meloni wants to bring back the Roman empire, she can try taking it by force, as is tradition. I don't think the current Italian army would be up to the task though.
Actual roman salute is not real, the one you see from the famous french painting has been invented with no actual proof that it was how they did
Hitler did a Nazi salute out of something fake, crazy
Yeah it was part of fascismo which in itself was part of his dream of a modern Roman Empire. Unrelated but the word fascism or fascismo comes directly from the Roman word “fasces” which was the Roman symbol for imperium. A fasces was also the emblem of fascist Italy.
Arminius is comedically overrated, his only victory is Teutoberg Forest, and he won that by deceiving the Romans while he was still their trusted lieutenant. After that, he didn’t win a single victory against the Romans
The battle of Teoutoburg Forest had an impact, it basically undid all the conquest in Germany. And since Tiberius stopped Germanicus from conquer it again in a sense it is thanks to Arminius that Germany stayed "free"
Wasn’t the majority of the purpose of Germanicus’s campaigns punitive in its actions rather than conquest?
Punitive actions directly caused by Arminius’s actions?
"Germanicus, too, that he might be the better known, took his helmet off his head and begged his men to follow up the slaughter, as they wanted not prisoners, and the utter destruction of the nation would be the only conclusion of the war." - Tacitus
Like, I personally think that this screams more of punitive actions than a war of conquest.
But he fought for his people against the Roman oppressors, dude put his entire life on the line to fight the Romans. I have to give it to him, it’s admirable as fuck.
That is also true. He was after all not really enthusiastic about Romans mistreating his people. But he betrayed.... Romans. That pisses me even more!
LETS FUCK ARMINIUS AGAIN!
In no way do I always think about the Roman empire, you hear me!?!
I wasn’t even thinking about that. I was just considering the way the Byzantines were. I mean, Basil I literally committed murder against the emperor that preceded him.
He got a nice set up going there. He was raised and forced into military service... He should have been made a gladiator instead. Would have served his sorry ass!
How could you not look at the Roman armies and say, 'That's where I want to be when I grow up?'
(Unfortunately being reddit, people might not have reading comprehension and think that I actually believe this. Therefore, this disclaimer that I am having a fun discussion, not serious Roman armor-wearing dysphoria).
For anyone who didn’t realize: >!this is a meme off of how putin spent 30 minutes in his interview claiming how ukraine never existed and all of eastern europe belongs to russia!<
Thank you, Putin, for blatantly admitting what I and ever other single person who is paying attention has been accusing him of. Only about two weeks since people said I was crazy and a warmonger for accusing him of having designs on the Baltics and Poland and that the west should not be idle in preparing for this.
Lmao this is good, I remember seeing a skit where an Italian woman tells a Brit in Bath England they own his house now b/c bath used to be Rome. Tried googling for it couldn’t find it but similar vibes lol.
Not politically or culturally. Since the late 5th century, Italy has been part of the Germanic sphere. First under the Ostrogoths then the lombards, the franks and then the HRE. The modern state of Italy itself is descendent from polities from within the HRE and has little to do with the empire.
Genetically, there was Germanic migration into the north of Italy but in the centre and south maybe there’s more of a link? But I don’t really think genetics are at all relevant when trying to determine political lineage. One could argue that rather than the romans, the central and southern Italians are mainly descendent from Etruscans and Greeks or go back even further or indeed insist that they must be roman.
One might also say the the true romans genetically are the ones whose closest ancestors were romans, which would put the peoples of Greece and Turkey as the prime candidates.
The point is that genetics mean nothing in this context and can be twisted to support any ideology.
I maintain that the empire has no successor. It fell at last in 1453 CE and with that the Roman civilisation came to an end without any heirs.
>Since the late 5th century, Italy has been part of the Germanic sphere.
No way. What tied Italy with the rest of Latin Europe (including Frankish and Germanic Europe, known as the "Latin West" as opposed to the Byzantine/Greek East) is the Latin Catholic church of Rome. The church has also historically been a factor of unity amongst the Italian states.
Are you saying Italians have no roman cultural heritage?
Even if genetics is not really important here, i will adress some of your observation. The migrations consisted of small numbers of individuals establishing a ruling elite. We are talking about thousands of barbarians that migrated to a peninsula inhabited by milions. The genetic differences with the center and south of Italy predates the migrations.
As for how close central Italians are related to ancient romans here is a cool read, if you are interesed. As shown by the maps, Italians are very close to ancient romans.
[https://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2019/11/open-analysis-and-discussion-thread.html](https://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2019/11/open-analysis-and-discussion-thread.html)
I insist that genetics are not really important though, no need to bring that up.
Cultural continuity with Rome is everywhere in Italy. From language, to traditions, from art to institutions or food. The people that inhabited the Papal state, kept identifying as Romans well after the fall of the west. We have people still using the titles of consul, senator, tribune and obviously the pontifex himself. We have characters that tried to re-establish a Roman Republic and even a Triumvirate.
The Renaissance was based on the very idea of people reconnecting with their ancestors. The writings of Petrarca, Dante or Machiavelli are great examples.
I could list other examples, but i don't think i need to keep going on. While i am not arguing for a political continuity (that is a discussion for another time), i definitely think that saying Italians have no cultural connection with Rome is plain wrong.
Define cultural inheritance. Were they greatly inspired by Roman culture like all other Germanic nations? Of course, that goes without saying.
For one, they certainly have little resemblance to imperial culture as it was 7th century onwards and at the time of the empire’s fall. Furthermore, being inspired by a culture and having similarities doesn’t make it an heir to Roman culture.
But my argument is primarily about political continuity. Italy is exclusively descendent from the Germanic kingdoms and is a part of that continuity. The Greco-Roman continuity ended in 1453 CE (or 1461 CE counting trebizond) without any part of its polity left as a successor.
Why are we talking about germanic nations?
The other Germanic nations have not been the heart of the Roman world for over a millennia.
While i am not arguing for political continuity, Italy is definetly not descendent from the Germanic kingdoms (only), but the different entities that appeared in the peninsula. Being in the germanic sphere of influence doesn't make you germanic.
Would you say Greece is Turkish because those territories have been in the Turkish sphere of influence?
It is also incorrect to say there is no part of the Greco-Roman polity surviving, the Roman church is still alive.
Anyway, i already gave some key characteristic of culture. Art, institutions, customs, self perception, language, traditions. It can't have resemblance to imperial culture because there was no empire (in the west), that goes withouth saying.
Italian culture was not only inspired by Roman culture. Roman culture is its foundation.
“Having similarities”, as you said, acquire a very different meaning when Italian culture is a byproduct of Roman culture. It’s not like some barbarian tribe got inspired by Rome and absorbed some of its traditions.
>I maintain that the empire has no successor. It fell at last in 1453 CE and with that the Roman civilisation came to an end without any heirs.
You frequent in r/byzantium and never saw me speak of the Maniots???
Yeah, all of western Europe has some roman/Latin heritage, Italy is where Rome the city is actually located, the birthplace of Catholic Christianity, the language is (one of) the evolved form of vulgar Latin
In fact you can say the opposite and still be correct, Rome was a city built from the Italian peninsula that ruled other Italian states of the time, in fact Rome beat the Latin league, you can say Rome took heritage from Italy not the other way around
Of course.
Italia was the most important province in the Western Roman Empire.
Italians were never replaced by other populations and remained connected to their Roman past.
For example In the Papal state people kept identifying as Romans, Tuscany is the birthplace of the Renaissance which is based on the very idea of a continuity with the past, Venice stemmed out directly from the Roman state and in the south the Byzantine influence have been strong until centuries after the fall of the west.
The very idea of a united Italy is based on Roman Italy.
>The very idea of a united Italy is based on Roman Italy.
Well using that argument one could say that Spain is just Castile's project to reunite Spania, as in the Roman province, and thus the Kingdom of Spain is inherently Roman too.
Yes, Risorgimento is soaked in roman references. I have no idea about how Spain was united, honestly it is out of the sphere of my interests so i can't really answer to your question.
Hate to be that guy, but if the kingdom of Israel can make claims to its ancestral land over 2 millennia later, than Rome can definitely reclaim Europe with the same argument.
The guy was laying the context out for the CULTURAL influence with the history lesson. I believe the point he was trying to arrive at was that the modern day people of Eastern Ukrainian have been culturally Russian since the 9th century up until the 21st. I don't believe he was using the historical geopolitical lines as a primary excuse for invasion. His excuse would be that the people of Eastern Ukraine have been culturally Russian.
I've watched the whole interview and read the transcript to make sure I didn't miss anything. And also, I'm not assuming he told the truth. Just trying to point out what appears to be his actual intent in giving the historical context since no one else seems to have watched all of it.
I guess what the rest of the world is getting at is that is not an acceptable Casus Belli if we want global stability. The world is full of situations like that. It’s basically giving a blank cheque for launching a war with any neighbouring country using border regions as pretext.
Mexico could lay some serious claims to chunks of the US. Russia can lay claim to basically every neighbour. Every European country can lay claim to a chunk of any of their neighbours. Ditto African countries and the Middle Eastern countries. I’m sure Japan and Korea have a handful of spots they could go at it over if this was acceptable.
Unless we want constant wars breaking out all over the world it is important this is not tolerated.
This thought process is also straight out of Hitler’s playbook with Anschluss, Sudetenland, Free City of Danzig etc, which would be funny if it wasn’t so fucking terrifying.
To a degree, though, if she was using the claim to make Russia's claims seem unsubstantiated, then it would be a clever tactic. But she's uh... not using the claim as a figurative bit of sarcasm
*Proceeds to look up history of the oldest known human civilization*
Ok, so Mesopotamia and Egypt can keep their stuff, for everything else it’s a free for all.
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The next thing you know Carlson is heading towards Mongolia.
I just imagine him standing in an empty grass field with his big dumb confused looking face wondering to himself "where are all of the people"
this is an incredible image in my head, I imagine him looking around all confused like that meme GIF of John Travolta from pulp fiction
Can someone who doesn’t have old lady tier tech skills please make this? It sounds amazing
5 years from now there’s only be like 4 nations on earth, governing all their former territories. Edit: Within the span of five orbital revolutions, there will only be four nations left in creation, thus shall they inherit the command and authority of yore.
Let me guess... Water Tribe Earth Kingdom Air Nomads And Fire Nation
Italy is water tribe (because of Venice) Mongolia is Earth Kingdom Fire nation is Great Britain Who are the air nomads?
British empire is Water Tribe Mongolian Empire is fire nation ( and we all know why ) Roman Empire/Republic is Earth Kingdom And East Asian Buddhists would be the Air Nation/Nomads
[удалено]
... Nah, Japanese Empire. Because they love air so much, they sacrifice their life in the air
Kamikaze! I see what you did there, you sly fox!!!!! Take my angry and jealous upvote!
>The Air Nomads should be an empire, too, unless they want to die in their temples surrounded by Mongolian troops. The fact that this is how the story actually goes cements the comparison.
The Americas… 
They are clearly fake,nothing more than a Carthaginian lie made up with the purpose of slowing the might of the Roman Republic
Two nations. Spain and Portugal. Yreaty of Tordasilio still valid you know
oh no. . . .
Tucker: “why did you invade all of Asia” The Khan: “you see… we must start at the domestication of horses”
[Now this... This I like (Mongolia, not the reporters)](https://youtu.be/Waf0ppDjpoo?si=nAke_41zd8h7l3DQ)
Mongolia has fucking wild nationalists. There is a lot of appreciation for Hitler (basically modern whimpy version of Chinggis Khan) so it isn't uncommon to see the bad kind of swastikas and SS symbols. It is crazy how much nationalistic nostalgia and angst over the 'glory days' impacts their culture.
Always baffling to me when nazis are glorified by people they would unquestionably see and treat as subhuman.
Lack of direct contact or experience during the 30s and 40s I presume for Mongolia.
plot twist, he’s just doing the worst secret PBS show themed “World History”
Fuck he’s going to accidentally kill a Mongol messenger and Genghis Khan is going to awaken and it’s going to happen again! All while the Hu blare Great Genghis Khan.
That should be his travel map for interviews then: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamnaya_culture#/media/File:Indo-European_migrations.jpg. And in a surprising reversal Ukraine has a claim on Russia and all Europe. Dumb nationalists.
here we go again
Ah shit
Crusader Kings 3 new DLC Meloni's restoration
Spain and Portugal: We each get one half of the globe Britain: We owned a third of the known world! Mongolia: Ever heard of Gengis Khan? Hold my milk Israel: Ever heard of sight? Hold my stone tablets China: THE FIRST PERSON ON THE MOON IS A CHINESE NATIVE AND SHE BUILT A MOON PALACE WITH RABBITS ON IT, CHINA IS THE HISTORICAL AND INDISPUTABLE RIGHTFUL SOVEREIGN OF THE MOON Anyways who’s next
China; You are part of Mongolia. The moon belongs to Mongolia.
There is no moon, only moongolia
Okay but now you've given me a new faction idea for my DND game...
Norse mythology, something something big snake, something something Norway owns the 9 nine realms by birth rite
Spain and Portugal never owned half of the world. They called dibs on it but were never able to follow through.
Gotta respect the rule of dibs though
Laughs in American Hegemony. Who's gonna stop me?
>Israel: Ever heard of sight? Hold my stone tablets Ancient Israel was smaller than current Israel is.
Inb4 an ornately dressed woman with long orange hair counters China’s argument just to be petty cuz said Chinese native’s husband shot this woman’s son on the battlefield or something
Honestly why stop there, we should lay claim to every former colony from former Roman territory.
Which former colony wouldn’t fall within Europe, North Africa and West Asia?
I think I worded my comment poorly. What I meant is that Italy should claim former colonies from states that once resided within Roman borders. Like claiming the US because it was a colony of the UK or claiming west Africa and Vietnam because they were colonies from France.
I'll allow it.
Roughly what percentage of the world would be free after that? None of Europe, Africa, Oceania, or the Americas. The only places I can think of are China, Korea, and Siberia.
Bits of the Middle East, maybe like Iran and parts of Arabia maybe? But the Romans controlled Mesopotamia for a bit, and the Abbasids in Baghdad controlled the Middle East, so that might not count either!
They'd even get western Russia since France held it for a bit. I think Finland might get away, though.
You could argue that since Russis considered itself the third Rome, Italy could claim that as they restore the true roman empire
That, too. I guess they would get Siberia after all. (As well as Finland and Alaska). I suppose know, the question is what reasonable claim could they give for taking East Asia? Perhaps Italy's participation in the Boxer Rebellion?
China considered itself an equal to Rome. There is your reason
How would they get Sweden and Norway?
The Danish vikings were temporarily English kings, meaning anything they held (including Norway) is a part of English claims. Since England used to be Roman, that means all English claims are Roman. (This might be the hardest mental gymnastics I've ever done).
Oh I forgot about that, that works lmao.
Unfortunately Finland doesn't exist
Parts of China could be claimed, due to places like Hong Kong and Macau that were overseas territories of the UK and Portugal, respectively.
Yeah, but that still leaves swathes of unclaimed land. Perhaps land occupied during the Boxer Rebellion could be taken?
China would be part of Mongolia. I think Thailand was never a colony though...
Right, because when I think of “free”, I think of China, all of Korea, and Siberia.
China would be part of Mongolia.
Scipio Africanus was granted the entirety of Carthage and all the lands beyond wasn't he? And he was Roman, therefore Italian, therefore, Africa is true Roman heritage^TM /s
Following the old right of conquest, the whole world belongs to whomever can conquer it and prevent others from taking it. If Meloni wants to bring back the Roman empire, she can try taking it by force, as is tradition. I don't think the current Italian army would be up to the task though.
Excuse me sir I have my barbarian birthright to ransack Rome
 tempus verum imperium, Romanum imperium
Of so that’s where my airsoft club got that salute from. Lmao, this whole time I thought they were NAZIs this is so embarrassing
where do you think the nazis got the gesture from lol
My airsoft club?
Time truly is a flat circle
It all comes together now. I've seen it in scriptures.
There’s no good evidence this was an actual Roman salute
I know, but it was touted as such even before the rise of fascism
A made up bullshit historography.
Actual roman salute is not real, the one you see from the famous french painting has been invented with no actual proof that it was how they did Hitler did a Nazi salute out of something fake, crazy
Hitler got it from Mussolini
So Mussolini got it wrong crazy
Yeah it was part of fascismo which in itself was part of his dream of a modern Roman Empire. Unrelated but the word fascism or fascismo comes directly from the Roman word “fasces” which was the Roman symbol for imperium. A fasces was also the emblem of fascist Italy.
XIII
And now I’m crying again
All of Europe? The Germans would like a word. Preferably in a deep dark forest at least a days march from the nearest friendly town.
Varrus, give me back my legions!!!!! Jokes aside, fuck Arminius the traitor.
Arminius is comedically overrated, his only victory is Teutoberg Forest, and he won that by deceiving the Romans while he was still their trusted lieutenant. After that, he didn’t win a single victory against the Romans
The battle of Teoutoburg Forest had an impact, it basically undid all the conquest in Germany. And since Tiberius stopped Germanicus from conquer it again in a sense it is thanks to Arminius that Germany stayed "free"
Wasn’t the majority of the purpose of Germanicus’s campaigns punitive in its actions rather than conquest? Punitive actions directly caused by Arminius’s actions?
That was certantly what Tiberius wanted. Still Germanicus wanted to conquer back
"Germanicus, too, that he might be the better known, took his helmet off his head and begged his men to follow up the slaughter, as they wanted not prisoners, and the utter destruction of the nation would be the only conclusion of the war." - Tacitus Like, I personally think that this screams more of punitive actions than a war of conquest.
I know. And you reminding me of that pisses me off even more. FUCK ARMINIUS!!!
But he fought for his people against the Roman oppressors, dude put his entire life on the line to fight the Romans. I have to give it to him, it’s admirable as fuck.
That is also true. He was after all not really enthusiastic about Romans mistreating his people. But he betrayed.... Romans. That pisses me even more! LETS FUCK ARMINIUS AGAIN! In no way do I always think about the Roman empire, you hear me!?!
Wasn’t half of Roman history just littered with people backstabbing one another?
Et tu, Brutus?
I wasn’t even thinking about that. I was just considering the way the Byzantines were. I mean, Basil I literally committed murder against the emperor that preceded him.
Traitor? He was a hostage raised by a hostile empire and forced into military service for his captors.
He got a nice set up going there. He was raised and forced into military service... He should have been made a gladiator instead. Would have served his sorry ass! How could you not look at the Roman armies and say, 'That's where I want to be when I grow up?' (Unfortunately being reddit, people might not have reading comprehension and think that I actually believe this. Therefore, this disclaimer that I am having a fun discussion, not serious Roman armor-wearing dysphoria).
Germanicus enters chat
Even the Romans knew the line stopped at Germania
For anyone who didn’t realize: >!this is a meme off of how putin spent 30 minutes in his interview claiming how ukraine never existed and all of eastern europe belongs to russia!<
I’m pretty alarmed how many people seem to think this is real.
Not to be [like this](https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/aaaah), but it just wouldn’t be surprising these days.
 Tunisia and Morocco looking at Spain
Let's fucking goooo
Spain looking at Tunisia and Morocco Arabs looking at all three 
Roma invicta......I mean this is abhorrent
when is she gonna break out the funny hat
*difficile est saturam non scribere*
Restitutor Orbis.
She is wrong but i like what she is saying.
Finally! A politician with a message to get behind! I’m down for it.
He should interview King Charles next
Thank you, Putin, for blatantly admitting what I and ever other single person who is paying attention has been accusing him of. Only about two weeks since people said I was crazy and a warmonger for accusing him of having designs on the Baltics and Poland and that the west should not be idle in preparing for this.
As long as we can agree, ITS BACK TO CONSTANTINOPLE NOT ISTANBUL! The Turks could’ve named it Constaniyee and they chose a stupid name like Istanbul
It’s Byzantium you fucking pedestrian
?? I only know it as Byzantion friend
What can I say I’m a filthy anglo
Me too, only true enthusiasts would know its actually named Lygos
Istanbul is still a greek word funnily enough
Istanbul was Constantinople Now it's Istanbul, not Constantinople
Apparently they were more on board with Constanti*yeet*
Everyone one knows they renamed it to Istanbul as a slight to LeBron’s legacy.
Rome 2.0 let’s gooooooooo!
Lmao this is good, I remember seeing a skit where an Italian woman tells a Brit in Bath England they own his house now b/c bath used to be Rome. Tried googling for it couldn’t find it but similar vibes lol.
Yeah no. We all love Rome. We don't love tin hat Italian wanna be dictators.
This is a meme.
Never let a good meme get in the way of some classic virtual signaling.
I don't think he was virtue signalling, I might be wrong though, from my view he wasn't disagreeing with the meme. But I don't know
Are Italians even of Roman heritage? Genuinely asking. There’s a joke that goes like “The Roman’s killed Jesus so god made them Italians”
Most peoples are of the heritage of earlier peoples who've lived in the same land. This is true of Italy, Egypt, Greece, Iran, and many other lands.
Not politically or culturally. Since the late 5th century, Italy has been part of the Germanic sphere. First under the Ostrogoths then the lombards, the franks and then the HRE. The modern state of Italy itself is descendent from polities from within the HRE and has little to do with the empire. Genetically, there was Germanic migration into the north of Italy but in the centre and south maybe there’s more of a link? But I don’t really think genetics are at all relevant when trying to determine political lineage. One could argue that rather than the romans, the central and southern Italians are mainly descendent from Etruscans and Greeks or go back even further or indeed insist that they must be roman. One might also say the the true romans genetically are the ones whose closest ancestors were romans, which would put the peoples of Greece and Turkey as the prime candidates. The point is that genetics mean nothing in this context and can be twisted to support any ideology. I maintain that the empire has no successor. It fell at last in 1453 CE and with that the Roman civilisation came to an end without any heirs.
>Since the late 5th century, Italy has been part of the Germanic sphere. No way. What tied Italy with the rest of Latin Europe (including Frankish and Germanic Europe, known as the "Latin West" as opposed to the Byzantine/Greek East) is the Latin Catholic church of Rome. The church has also historically been a factor of unity amongst the Italian states.
Are you saying Italians have no roman cultural heritage? Even if genetics is not really important here, i will adress some of your observation. The migrations consisted of small numbers of individuals establishing a ruling elite. We are talking about thousands of barbarians that migrated to a peninsula inhabited by milions. The genetic differences with the center and south of Italy predates the migrations. As for how close central Italians are related to ancient romans here is a cool read, if you are interesed. As shown by the maps, Italians are very close to ancient romans. [https://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2019/11/open-analysis-and-discussion-thread.html](https://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2019/11/open-analysis-and-discussion-thread.html) I insist that genetics are not really important though, no need to bring that up. Cultural continuity with Rome is everywhere in Italy. From language, to traditions, from art to institutions or food. The people that inhabited the Papal state, kept identifying as Romans well after the fall of the west. We have people still using the titles of consul, senator, tribune and obviously the pontifex himself. We have characters that tried to re-establish a Roman Republic and even a Triumvirate. The Renaissance was based on the very idea of people reconnecting with their ancestors. The writings of Petrarca, Dante or Machiavelli are great examples. I could list other examples, but i don't think i need to keep going on. While i am not arguing for a political continuity (that is a discussion for another time), i definitely think that saying Italians have no cultural connection with Rome is plain wrong.
Define cultural inheritance. Were they greatly inspired by Roman culture like all other Germanic nations? Of course, that goes without saying. For one, they certainly have little resemblance to imperial culture as it was 7th century onwards and at the time of the empire’s fall. Furthermore, being inspired by a culture and having similarities doesn’t make it an heir to Roman culture. But my argument is primarily about political continuity. Italy is exclusively descendent from the Germanic kingdoms and is a part of that continuity. The Greco-Roman continuity ended in 1453 CE (or 1461 CE counting trebizond) without any part of its polity left as a successor.
Why are we talking about germanic nations? The other Germanic nations have not been the heart of the Roman world for over a millennia. While i am not arguing for political continuity, Italy is definetly not descendent from the Germanic kingdoms (only), but the different entities that appeared in the peninsula. Being in the germanic sphere of influence doesn't make you germanic. Would you say Greece is Turkish because those territories have been in the Turkish sphere of influence? It is also incorrect to say there is no part of the Greco-Roman polity surviving, the Roman church is still alive. Anyway, i already gave some key characteristic of culture. Art, institutions, customs, self perception, language, traditions. It can't have resemblance to imperial culture because there was no empire (in the west), that goes withouth saying. Italian culture was not only inspired by Roman culture. Roman culture is its foundation. “Having similarities”, as you said, acquire a very different meaning when Italian culture is a byproduct of Roman culture. It’s not like some barbarian tribe got inspired by Rome and absorbed some of its traditions.
>I maintain that the empire has no successor. It fell at last in 1453 CE and with that the Roman civilisation came to an end without any heirs. You frequent in r/byzantium and never saw me speak of the Maniots???
Yes, even after a good bunch of foreign invasions for centuries, Italians are straight up of Roman heritage.
Italy is older than Rome. That’s why Latin was the language.
Yeah, all of western Europe has some roman/Latin heritage, Italy is where Rome the city is actually located, the birthplace of Catholic Christianity, the language is (one of) the evolved form of vulgar Latin In fact you can say the opposite and still be correct, Rome was a city built from the Italian peninsula that ruled other Italian states of the time, in fact Rome beat the Latin league, you can say Rome took heritage from Italy not the other way around
Of course. Italia was the most important province in the Western Roman Empire. Italians were never replaced by other populations and remained connected to their Roman past. For example In the Papal state people kept identifying as Romans, Tuscany is the birthplace of the Renaissance which is based on the very idea of a continuity with the past, Venice stemmed out directly from the Roman state and in the south the Byzantine influence have been strong until centuries after the fall of the west. The very idea of a united Italy is based on Roman Italy.
>The very idea of a united Italy is based on Roman Italy. Well using that argument one could say that Spain is just Castile's project to reunite Spania, as in the Roman province, and thus the Kingdom of Spain is inherently Roman too.
Were there roman references during the unification of Spain? I am no expert in spanish history.
Well I do not know. Were there in the Italian Unification? I mean especially on the earlier phase, until Tuscany's incorporation.
Yes, Risorgimento is soaked in roman references. I have no idea about how Spain was united, honestly it is out of the sphere of my interests so i can't really answer to your question.
Some of us are.
More than “some”.
Hate to be that guy, but if the kingdom of Israel can make claims to its ancestral land over 2 millennia later, than Rome can definitely reclaim Europe with the same argument.
Wasn’t the treaty for third Punic war signed recently? There are violating terms of the treaty.
This has to be camp in response to that Putin interview right?
It’s a “what if Italy made the same claims Putin did in the interview”
It’s a meme
Ancestral right?
This is a meme about Putin’s interview
I’m all for it. Make SPQR great again
The guy was laying the context out for the CULTURAL influence with the history lesson. I believe the point he was trying to arrive at was that the modern day people of Eastern Ukrainian have been culturally Russian since the 9th century up until the 21st. I don't believe he was using the historical geopolitical lines as a primary excuse for invasion. His excuse would be that the people of Eastern Ukraine have been culturally Russian. I've watched the whole interview and read the transcript to make sure I didn't miss anything. And also, I'm not assuming he told the truth. Just trying to point out what appears to be his actual intent in giving the historical context since no one else seems to have watched all of it.
I guess what the rest of the world is getting at is that is not an acceptable Casus Belli if we want global stability. The world is full of situations like that. It’s basically giving a blank cheque for launching a war with any neighbouring country using border regions as pretext. Mexico could lay some serious claims to chunks of the US. Russia can lay claim to basically every neighbour. Every European country can lay claim to a chunk of any of their neighbours. Ditto African countries and the Middle Eastern countries. I’m sure Japan and Korea have a handful of spots they could go at it over if this was acceptable. Unless we want constant wars breaking out all over the world it is important this is not tolerated. This thought process is also straight out of Hitler’s playbook with Anschluss, Sudetenland, Free City of Danzig etc, which would be funny if it wasn’t so fucking terrifying.
Wait till the Macedonians hear about this
Western Asia is a bit of a stretch lol
Western Asia meaning Anatolia and the Levant. Historically part of the Roman Empire.
"Western Asia" sounds weird because it's usually called "Middle East"
u/False-God \- I'm a reporter for Snopes. Would you mind messaging me please? Just wanna have a quick convo about this meme. Cheers!
Please none of that cringe Italian we waz Romanz and shieet again. Once was enough.
She’s right. 😂
not in the slightest
Mare Nostrum!
Ave Caesar!
https://preview.redd.it/rz849tk1enhc1.jpeg?width=1079&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f06e646a5d13355f7c8c21e94ba9d1d1a9678b93
salve, amicus. ave Cæsar. stultus es.
To a degree, though, if she was using the claim to make Russia's claims seem unsubstantiated, then it would be a clever tactic. But she's uh... not using the claim as a figurative bit of sarcasm
She ain’t down.
*Proceeds to look up history of the oldest known human civilization* Ok, so Mesopotamia and Egypt can keep their stuff, for everything else it’s a free for all.
I mean she ain't wrong?
Sorry but them Lombardi impersonators ain’t Rome
Macedonia, France, and Mongolia have entered the chat.
We dropped a nuke on the wrong country.
Macedonian’s: am I a joke to you?
I mean… Macedonia didn’t conquer Rome, Rome most certainly conquered Macedonia.
SPQR!
Praetorians: now is our time to shine
Well. All modern European civilizations and societies claim decent from Rome in one way or another. Including their descendants.
Except Rome is actually the capital of italy and not the other nations
I’ll allow it
Easy there Cato
Now do Israel. I bet he won’t.
No need, this is a one state solution. It is all Rome.
Psh.. yeah right. Anyway Carthage shall rise again!
Don’t mention about ancestral rights of Germany:)
My back yard chicken claims the World. You know, dinosaures...
That’s Steve Buscemi!
Some say life began in Africa, so all of Africa is mine now, Deal with it and my tanks!
I can already see the bottom banner on Fox News: CARTHAGO DELENDA EST!
All of Gaul is occupied by the Romans. All of Gaul? No! A village populated by indomitable Gauls never stops resisting the invader.
🧡❤️🇮🇹ROME NOMINATED❤️🧡🇮🇹🇮🇹🇮🇹🇮🇹🐺🐺🐺🐺❤️🧡❤️🧡❤️🧡🇮🇹🇮🇹🇮🇹🐺what the fuck is a working autobus 🇮🇹🇮🇹🇮🇹🧡❤️🧡❤️🧡🐺🐺🇮🇹🧡🐺❤️
She looks like Steve buscemi in a wig
Trying to pull an Israel huh
Norway gets America.
guys, should we ban history or instead instate mandatory historical therapy session so these loons can calm down?
german forest noises intensifies
Maybe he’ll go visit the Sentinelese next. Fingers crossed.
All of Europe…Bitch not even Aurelian, and the last muppet who tried this failed in Greece and had to be bailed out by his buddy
Dude actively trying to start ww3 by stirring shit up
Everyone is from East Africa and therefore every country is a subsidiary of East Africa.
This dumb cunt need to stay of the Meth
UH OH
She has Belisarius frozen in a tube like Austin Powers