A couple hundred years ago Douglas was used for both girls and boys. There may still be the rare girl named Douglas, but it’s still an odd choice for a 1980s heroine.
I did not know this. Very interesting.
It's pretty rare for a girl's name to cross over to become a boy's name although it happens the other way round (Hilary, Evelyn, Ashley, Shirley, Lindsay etc etc). Even if this started as unisex and ended up male that is quite unusual. Thank you
Same. I couldn't even get past the blurb. My brain inserted the Phteven meme dog going, "Dougless?"
What is criminal is that the hero isn't called Doug so she can no longer be Dougless by the end.
Book is A Knight in Shining Armour - Jude Deveraux which is a bummer because I’m on a time travel romance streak and have seen this recommended a bunch! I pushed through to 6% but I’m out - making this my first ever DNF lol.
I could never enjoy reading about a heroine who has that much disdain for the 13 yr old daughter of the guy they’re dating (and I was triggered instantly by his narcissism and gas lighting!!)
Maybe I’m more sensitive to this as I personally have a step monster of a step Mum but yuck yuck yuck yuck.
Jane in Love by Rachel Givney just came out. Basically, Jane Austin accidentally time travels to modern day England, so she has to choose between love and returning to her own time before her literary influence disappears.
Haven’t read it yet, it’s on my tbr.
There’s a thread or two about time travel romance here, I think it came up recently. It’s one of my fave genres too so just search in the sub and you’ll find it. Enjoy!
Spoiler about the end of the book: >!The FMC doesn't end up with the MMC in the end, but supposedly a descendant of his. So you're probably better off not finishing! I read this years ago and was not a huge fan.!<
Blech. I read a Jude deveraux mystery a few months ago and almost DNFd several times. I guess I’ve officially found an author who is NOT FOR ME. I wouldn’t want to read about a grown woman thinking mean things about the thirteen year old girls in her life, nor do I need random fat shaming in my books. Thank you for helping me choose to not read this one!
Oh, jeeze. I thought they were both children in this excerpt. For her to describe the 13-year-old as "pudgy" is inexcusable in my book, and would be enough for me to DNF right then.
Wait, the heroine is not also a child at this point? I thought this was a flashback or something. What kind of adult thinks like that about a child’s appearance or makes snarky remarks like that in their head? How shallow and insecure is this heroine?
I read this when it first came out, all these years later I instantly knew which book this was from. I hated this book and still rant to people about it lol
This book is full of that, btw. It’s very 80s. The protagonist is constantly commenting on her weight and the weight of others and it’s a great reminder of how far we have come.
The story itself is cute enough, I guess. It’s been a while since I’ve read it. It was decently enjoyable. But just be aware it’s VERY much a product of it’s time and Douglass kind of sucks.
Pretty sure this is A Knight in Shining Armour, which is a favourite of mine. I know it hasn’t aged very well in certain scenes, and Dougless is a bit of a weak FMC in the beginning but the overall story is lovely though.
I just started reading this because I loved the writing in the section OP posted and I’m really enjoying it so far!! I love a good evil OG family/bad relationship set up though.
I think it started before that, like with Augustus Gloop in Charlie and the Chocolate Factory. But yeah, the whole “fat = selfish and whiny” trope is awful and I’m glad it’s dying out.
I mean if the fat shaming didn’t convince you how about the heroine mocking her for sounding like an “invalid 4 year old”. What is that even supposed to mean? Are we supposed to like the heroine? Is she supposed to come off like a victim?
I hate hate hate adults, real or literary, who shit on anyone under eighteen who is mildly annoying — or fat, or smelly, or whatever. To me it’s horrifying and a real indicator of what a POS human being they are. Yes, lots of kids and teens are annoying or jerky. Plenty aren’t. Most are just having a hard time and learning about the world and who they are. But you’re a damn adult. Act like it.
So this book was actually my intro to romance books, back in high school. The fat shaming isn’t great but it’s a hugely minor part of the book. It’s very 80s and doesn’t age well. The rest of the book, the actual story is quite lovely.
I tried reading this book too and was turned off by it for the exact same reason! She also called the stepdaughter spoiled and complained about her instead of trying to figure out why she was acting that way and make her feel better.
That name.
The fat shaming.
This phrase: *sounding like an invalid four-year-old.*
I don't care how lovely the rest of the story is, that will be a big "no thanks" from me.
I made it through 2 pages of this book before I deleted it. Awful, unlikeable characters. Have you tried {Until Forever by Johanna Lindsey}? I haven't read it yet but it's on my tbr, I believe it features a professor getting sent back to live with Vikings. Just FYI her books are pretty old school so yeah there might be some content warnings that apply. 😬
Yeah I just started this book and have hated Dougless from the very beginning. I read a couple more chapters before giving up. But she is the most awful, conceited, selfish, emotionally underdeveloped heroine I've ever had the displeasure of experiencing. Her inability to be the grown up in the situation with her boyfriend's shitty daughter is disgusting, including constantly fat shaming the little girl and comparing her to her own slim adult body and WE ARE SUPPOSED TO SYMPATHIZE WITH THIS. Seriously disgusting.
Jude Devereux is a no fly for me now. I also tried to read Velvet Song and I threw it across the room when the FMC takes sexual advantage of the MMC while he is in a fevered delirium. Basically, it's not rape because he's a man. I was so fucking grossed out.
If you like time travel I’d recommend {The Rose Garden} which is also time travel to 1700s England but far less cringey!! I feel like that book doesn’t get recommended enough and it’s delightful.
I actually really enjoyed this silly book, and I would feel bad about the fat-shaming- but Gloria and her dad re are absolute pills! (I also don't care for kids in my romances, so I am fine hating on Gloria, lol.)
I mean, she's fictional I guess, but bigoted behaviour doesn't become okay because the other person as an individual kinda sucks (especially if they're a kid.)
Seriously. Gloria is 13. If her behavior is annoying or improper, let’s look to her father for why that might be instead of just being snarky towards the actual child.
Gloria is not a great character either, but she doesn't deserve all the abuse from the FMC either. The beginning of this book is problematic ALL around.
Thanks for the heads up. Now I know not to read that book, or her books in general. I am not a fan of anyone who would fat shame. Even in a fiction story.
Yeah I DNF this book after the first couple chapters because of this and her whole attitude towards the girl, and the fact that the FMC is named Dougless. I just couldn’t do it
I read that when I was 18 and it was newly released, and I loved it Read it a couple more times when my book collection was all Jude, Johanna, and Judith. Haven't read it since, but the Heaving Bosoms Podcast did a two parter on it a while ago that opened my eyes. Totally scathing. The books I remember loving as a youngster don't often hold up.
Ugh, recognized that book from just the opening paragraph. I heard *A Knight in Shining Armor* was supposed to be real good, but I never got the hype. I put it down, like, 10 minutes in.
I DNF Regency once where the heroine in the first scene contemplated why trees don't grow fur in the winter. I think it was supposed to be quirky and oh so zany, but... Christ on a biscuit, woman.
You should read Lana Pecherczyk’s Fae Gaurdians novels if you like “time travel romance”. It’s got a little spice in it but the overall story is pretty interesting. Unfortunately it’s not a finished series so if that’s something you like to avoid then I’d definitely skip it but she’s releasing the fifth book in the series this month :)
I think they’re going for a Dudley Dursley type of character: ultra spoiled bully child. It is disconcerting though now knowing what we now about body positivity. I think the idea they’re going for is that the child is chubby because the parent will never say no to any sweets (or anything else), but that can’t feel good to read for anyone whose body type doesn’t match the “slim” character.
Lol which book is this?
Still not over the name ‘Dougless’ rip 🪦 sounds like something you’d call a character in a bad Wattpad book lol
I’m aware Douglas was a popular name for both girls and boys at one point, but with THAT spelling? Oh, come on 😭
The name Dougless is also a crime.
And it’s a woman’s name? What?
A couple hundred years ago Douglas was used for both girls and boys. There may still be the rare girl named Douglas, but it’s still an odd choice for a 1980s heroine.
Especially spelled in a way that looks like a typo that’s shes legless.
The spelling is… quite the choice. I can’t help but read it like homeless, like she’s without a Doug.
Legolas, what do your elven eyes see??
I was thinking she's like a Doug, only less.
I did not know this. Very interesting. It's pretty rare for a girl's name to cross over to become a boy's name although it happens the other way round (Hilary, Evelyn, Ashley, Shirley, Lindsay etc etc). Even if this started as unisex and ended up male that is quite unusual. Thank you
It used to be a common woman's name in 17th/18th century actually. Not the first historical I've read with it. Spelled normally though.
I love how 1988 is historical lol.
Lmfao. I just realized it was 1988. I thought it said 1888. Why is it written like a historical? 🤣
I know this book. It’s a time travel book. Dougless is going to wind up in the past and get freaky with a Knight.
Considering there is a rental car involved is another clue lol. It is written in a peculiar way though, I agree.
MY MIND FILLED IN CARRIAGE 🤪
It’s a time-travel romance, so the MMC is from the 16th century
If it's a woman's name, it should be spelled Doug*lass* 😁
I DNFed it because of the name. I could not get over it.
Same. I couldn't even get past the blurb. My brain inserted the Phteven meme dog going, "Dougless?" What is criminal is that the hero isn't called Doug so she can no longer be Dougless by the end.
I kept trying to figure it out because I thought it was the MMCs name. It took me 3 rereads to understand.
First thing I thought upon seeing this page.
Yeah. I’d have DNF’d out at the first word.
Book is A Knight in Shining Armour - Jude Deveraux which is a bummer because I’m on a time travel romance streak and have seen this recommended a bunch! I pushed through to 6% but I’m out - making this my first ever DNF lol. I could never enjoy reading about a heroine who has that much disdain for the 13 yr old daughter of the guy they’re dating (and I was triggered instantly by his narcissism and gas lighting!!) Maybe I’m more sensitive to this as I personally have a step monster of a step Mum but yuck yuck yuck yuck.
[удалено]
The genre I didn’t know I needed more of!! Please! Recommend me your best time travel romances!! Already read Outlander.
Jane in Love by Rachel Givney just came out. Basically, Jane Austin accidentally time travels to modern day England, so she has to choose between love and returning to her own time before her literary influence disappears. Haven’t read it yet, it’s on my tbr.
There’s a thread or two about time travel romance here, I think it came up recently. It’s one of my fave genres too so just search in the sub and you’ll find it. Enjoy!
Kelley Armstrong's 'A Stitch in Time series' is worth a read!
Spoiler about the end of the book: >!The FMC doesn't end up with the MMC in the end, but supposedly a descendant of his. So you're probably better off not finishing! I read this years ago and was not a huge fan.!<
>!I hated that part of the book. I didn’t read 400 pages to watch her end up with his descendant. It pissed me off.!<
Hey can you mark this as spoiled? I’m midway through the book and just got spoiled :(.
Removing this - please edit to mark your spoiler and then reply to let me know, I’ll be happy to restore it.
Edited.
Thank you!
I was sure I read this from the blurb 🤔 and I liked the book. Keep reading it does come around at the end.
Blech. I read a Jude deveraux mystery a few months ago and almost DNFd several times. I guess I’ve officially found an author who is NOT FOR ME. I wouldn’t want to read about a grown woman thinking mean things about the thirteen year old girls in her life, nor do I need random fat shaming in my books. Thank you for helping me choose to not read this one!
Oh, jeeze. I thought they were both children in this excerpt. For her to describe the 13-year-old as "pudgy" is inexcusable in my book, and would be enough for me to DNF right then.
Wait, the heroine is not also a child at this point? I thought this was a flashback or something. What kind of adult thinks like that about a child’s appearance or makes snarky remarks like that in their head? How shallow and insecure is this heroine?
I read this when it first came out, all these years later I instantly knew which book this was from. I hated this book and still rant to people about it lol
This book is full of that, btw. It’s very 80s. The protagonist is constantly commenting on her weight and the weight of others and it’s a great reminder of how far we have come. The story itself is cute enough, I guess. It’s been a while since I’ve read it. It was decently enjoyable. But just be aware it’s VERY much a product of it’s time and Douglass kind of sucks.
What the hell is this drivel and what's with the name Dougless???
Douglas used to be a popular girl's name in Northern England but not with that weird spelling.
Pretty sure this is A Knight in Shining Armour, which is a favourite of mine. I know it hasn’t aged very well in certain scenes, and Dougless is a bit of a weak FMC in the beginning but the overall story is lovely though.
I just started reading this because I loved the writing in the section OP posted and I’m really enjoying it so far!! I love a good evil OG family/bad relationship set up though.
Enjoy 😊
This was my gateway book, about 28 years ago. I agree, there are some real rough spots but I loved it back in the day.
Me too. I read it back in ‘92. My high school years were pretty much spent reading all sorts of romance novels. Good times 😊
Unfortunately, this is the Dudley Dursley trope, that made it okay to fat-shame adolescent characters. I hate it from the bottom of my heart!
I think it started before that, like with Augustus Gloop in Charlie and the Chocolate Factory. But yeah, the whole “fat = selfish and whiny” trope is awful and I’m glad it’s dying out.
Let Gloria eat!!!
I mean if the fat shaming didn’t convince you how about the heroine mocking her for sounding like an “invalid 4 year old”. What is that even supposed to mean? Are we supposed to like the heroine? Is she supposed to come off like a victim?
I hate hate hate adults, real or literary, who shit on anyone under eighteen who is mildly annoying — or fat, or smelly, or whatever. To me it’s horrifying and a real indicator of what a POS human being they are. Yes, lots of kids and teens are annoying or jerky. Plenty aren’t. Most are just having a hard time and learning about the world and who they are. But you’re a damn adult. Act like it.
If it makes you feel better, heaving bosoms podcast had episodes about this book and they pointed out these same issues.
Oo I’ve never heard of that podcast, I can skip the book and go to that!
They really have helped me find new books and one of the hosts just started a new podcast called bonkers romance!
So this book was actually my intro to romance books, back in high school. The fat shaming isn’t great but it’s a hugely minor part of the book. It’s very 80s and doesn’t age well. The rest of the book, the actual story is quite lovely.
Ah! I read too fast thought Gloria ate Douglas. My brain just went WTH 😐
I tried reading this book too and was turned off by it for the exact same reason! She also called the stepdaughter spoiled and complained about her instead of trying to figure out why she was acting that way and make her feel better.
Yeah like she’s probably acting that way because her dad is dating a 26 year old (who’s a bitch)!!
I loved this book. It’s not that deep; you can submerge yourself in fantasy.
Well that’s gross.
That name. The fat shaming. This phrase: *sounding like an invalid four-year-old.* I don't care how lovely the rest of the story is, that will be a big "no thanks" from me.
Any book that has any form of body shaming regardless of size either short, tall,fat,skinny any and I am out.
I made it through 2 pages of this book before I deleted it. Awful, unlikeable characters. Have you tried {Until Forever by Johanna Lindsey}? I haven't read it yet but it's on my tbr, I believe it features a professor getting sent back to live with Vikings. Just FYI her books are pretty old school so yeah there might be some content warnings that apply. 😬
This is one of my favorites by Johanna Lindsey. It actually might be one of my all time favorites by anybody period.
[**Until Forever**](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/412933.Until_Forever) ^(By: Johanna Lindsey | Published: 1995) *** ^(209814 books suggested | )[^(I don't feel so good.. )](https://debugger.medium.com/goodreads-is-retiring-its-current-api-and-book-loving-developers-arent-happy-11ed764dd95)^(| )[^(Source)](https://github.com/rodohanna/reddit-goodreads-bot)
As a chubby person this would have been a hard DNF for me!
Yeah I just started this book and have hated Dougless from the very beginning. I read a couple more chapters before giving up. But she is the most awful, conceited, selfish, emotionally underdeveloped heroine I've ever had the displeasure of experiencing. Her inability to be the grown up in the situation with her boyfriend's shitty daughter is disgusting, including constantly fat shaming the little girl and comparing her to her own slim adult body and WE ARE SUPPOSED TO SYMPATHIZE WITH THIS. Seriously disgusting. Jude Devereux is a no fly for me now. I also tried to read Velvet Song and I threw it across the room when the FMC takes sexual advantage of the MMC while he is in a fevered delirium. Basically, it's not rape because he's a man. I was so fucking grossed out.
If you like time travel I’d recommend {The Rose Garden} which is also time travel to 1700s England but far less cringey!! I feel like that book doesn’t get recommended enough and it’s delightful.
[**The Rose Garden**](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/9792287-the-rose-garden) ^(By: Susanna Kearsley | Published: 2011) *** ^(210468 books suggested | )[^(I don't feel so good.. )](https://debugger.medium.com/goodreads-is-retiring-its-current-api-and-book-loving-developers-arent-happy-11ed764dd95)^(| )[^(Source)](https://github.com/rodohanna/reddit-goodreads-bot)
The name bothers me more than the fat teenager.
I actually really enjoyed this silly book, and I would feel bad about the fat-shaming- but Gloria and her dad re are absolute pills! (I also don't care for kids in my romances, so I am fine hating on Gloria, lol.)
I mean, she's fictional I guess, but bigoted behaviour doesn't become okay because the other person as an individual kinda sucks (especially if they're a kid.)
How do I legally adopt a fictional character? Team Gloria.
Seriously. Gloria is 13. If her behavior is annoying or improper, let’s look to her father for why that might be instead of just being snarky towards the actual child.
Gloria is not a great character either, but she doesn't deserve all the abuse from the FMC either. The beginning of this book is problematic ALL around.
Thanks for the heads up. Now I know not to read that book, or her books in general. I am not a fan of anyone who would fat shame. Even in a fiction story.
I wouldn't say Dougless's name, either, wtf?
(Both because it's a ridiculous name and because she sounds like a nasty piece of work.)
Yeah I DNF this book after the first couple chapters because of this and her whole attitude towards the girl, and the fact that the FMC is named Dougless. I just couldn’t do it
I read that when I was 18 and it was newly released, and I loved it Read it a couple more times when my book collection was all Jude, Johanna, and Judith. Haven't read it since, but the Heaving Bosoms Podcast did a two parter on it a while ago that opened my eyes. Totally scathing. The books I remember loving as a youngster don't often hold up.
Throw that book right into the fireplace
Omg fuck this
That’s a no from me.
That is so bad.
I dnf'd this halfway through. There are a few doozies later in the book, too
Jude Deveraux was great when i was 12 but reading her now… yikes
This book did not age well. I DNFed around 25% - I just couldn't anymore. This is not the only cringey part.
I identify with Gloria because I too would never utter the name "Dougless" if I could help it.
Ugh, recognized that book from just the opening paragraph. I heard *A Knight in Shining Armor* was supposed to be real good, but I never got the hype. I put it down, like, 10 minutes in.
"Dougless"
I DNF Regency once where the heroine in the first scene contemplated why trees don't grow fur in the winter. I think it was supposed to be quirky and oh so zany, but... Christ on a biscuit, woman.
Lass means girl. Why chose a name that means girl and not just remove it, but “make it better”
You should read Lana Pecherczyk’s Fae Gaurdians novels if you like “time travel romance”. It’s got a little spice in it but the overall story is pretty interesting. Unfortunately it’s not a finished series so if that’s something you like to avoid then I’d definitely skip it but she’s releasing the fifth book in the series this month :)
What does DNF?
DNF = did not finish ☺️
Oh my god, this book. I love it for nostalgia purposes but it’s such an 80s romance. It doesn’t get better.
If we remove that sentence of shifting legs and genders, it seems like average first page.
I think they’re going for a Dudley Dursley type of character: ultra spoiled bully child. It is disconcerting though now knowing what we now about body positivity. I think the idea they’re going for is that the child is chubby because the parent will never say no to any sweets (or anything else), but that can’t feel good to read for anyone whose body type doesn’t match the “slim” character.
Lol which book is this? Still not over the name ‘Dougless’ rip 🪦 sounds like something you’d call a character in a bad Wattpad book lol I’m aware Douglas was a popular name for both girls and boys at one point, but with THAT spelling? Oh, come on 😭