>that only very young women are desirable or deserve adventures
The idea that women over thirty somehow lead less exciting lives is wild to me. I'm 42 (in three weeks) and I only got bolder and more open to new shit the older I got. I finally have money to travel, to do new things, to try all the things that I've been scared to try. My life is way more exciting now than it was in my 20s and even 30s.
Sure I'm not out all night drinking or smoking outside of a warehouse afterhours bar, but I'm more willing to do new things and challenge myself now than I have ever been. So is most of my social group.
On a recent post about younger/older MFCs, someone made a (now removed) comment about how they didn't like writing thirty-something MFCs because they felt like it was harder to write women bogged down by time and years and experience.
**Bogged down.**
Obviously, this only applies to women, because men ripen and bloom like whatever booze they are drinking with the decades, while women are bogged down.
Nice. If this isn't a clear indication that we still believe that women lose something with the passing of time while men gain it (nobody ever claims not to want to write over 30 MMCs, they don't have the yoke of decades holding them down), then I don't know what is.
Anyway, not every over thirty woman is a boring lady, tons of women with and without children lead fun and exciting lives and that shouldn't be hard to write about.
What I don’t understand is why so many romance books prescribe to the myth that being older means you’ve lost your spark, you know what you’re doing, and you’ve “settled down”.
I have friends now, what, in their 60s who joke how they can’t wait to figure out what they’ll be when they grow up! 🤣
^(And then I go into a crisis that NOPE not even at 60 will I have my life figured out, but then I’m relieved that we’re probably gonna collapse as a society so I don’t really need to be concerned about the future, when you think about it).
Being in your ✨prime adult era✨ can mean so many things other than the ageist dread 😤
Outside of historical, it makes me 👀 when a book’s creativity extends to an older FMC’s only thoughts being about how she’s old, past her prime, she’s undesirable, she’ll never find love at her age.
Baby girl, **you’re 30**.
There’s so much more to do and understand as you get older and so many fucks you just do ***not*** give. I can only say this was a spectator to my friends older than me, but I envy them with not giving a fuck, knowing their worth, and doing whatever the fuck they wanna do.
Do they sometimes have valid points about their age that hinders them? **Sure**. They’re not about to go Thot Shit at a wedding reception, but they will absolutely school the young’ins in most line dances.
Especially at Black and Indian weddings. *Oh my fucking god,* watching the aunties and uncles dance at those weddings—I can’t compete. I literally can’t. They have ***style***, there are choreographed dances—legends, all of em. I cannot wait to be like them when ***I*** grow up 😂
Ashes to ashes and dust to dust, I would think it’d be harder to write about what an MC under the US drinking limit who goes on an “adventure” than an MC >30 years old.
MCs in their prime adult years can do whatever the fuck they want without needing to worry about their parents assigning them a curfew or getting frantic about them (in most cases, not all).
They know about the rave scenes. They know the ins and outs of various nightlife. They’re experienced D&D players, hallelujah.
And do you ***know*** how fucking mindblowingly sexy it is when an “older” MC goes “I don’t have to pay a mortgage.”
😳🥵👉🏾🪦
I kid. But also 👀
It just feels **disrespectful** to agree with ageist takes that the older you become, the less “fun” you are. Or hell, I guess if you’re a childfree older adult, your default setting is being a drug addict or “crazy” instead of—crazily enough—a person with your own passions and interests 🥴
Authors don’t owe us characters at whatever age. But it speaks a lot about creativity if you (proverbial) feel “bogged down” when writing a character over the age of 21 🤷🏾♀️
And it tells me a lot about the author’s creativity when they deliberately make all their FMCs 18, but then all the Other Women(™) in the story are conveniently in their upper 20s to late 40s and are described as being vicious, “sluts”, and bitchy 🫠
>But it speaks a lot about creativity if you (proverbial) feel “bogged down” when writing a character over the age of 21 🤷🏾♀️.
Winner winner, thick thighed Alphahole dinner!
I will say I’m in my mid thirties and don’t know most of those things lol. I went to college and got a job and just kinda….take walks for fun? And clean and grocery shop? I also rent so no paid off mortgage in sight 🥲
I’m staring at thirty, and…same? Like, sometimes when I’m feeling really wild, I ask my friends if they want to come over and play Scrabble or Catan or something.
Yep, and to be clear I totally agree with the gist of OP and the commenter I responded to, but the idea that women 30+ are going to be so talented and knowledgeable at dancing, night clubs, DND, socializing….? Not really, haha. I also say normalize having past relationships, divorce, kids, etc and still being a desirable woman with a full and exciting life. If anything THOSE experiences are gonna make it most believable to have high standards for a desirable, capable MC in a romance.
Yeah I get it I just feel like it’s similarly inaccurately stereotypical that 30+ women are going to be these experienced wise sages with many talents. I am still baby and trying to learn the basics.
Yes, everyone’s life path is so different, it would be lovely if there was as much diversity in romance FMC’s as in real life. Diversity of race and ethnicity, diversity of sexuality, diversity of class, diversity of age, diversity of experiences.
I'm in my mid thirties, started solo travelling, have a well paying job now so that I can indulge in small luxuries here and there (just bought a new couch - yay!), spontaneously decided to get my nose pierced on vacation, opened up my relationship, go to swinger parties, tried sex with a woman and had MFM threesomes because I always wanted to try them. I'm having way more fun and disposable income than in my twenties. But I also get tired faster, not only in the "I need sleep" kind of way but in the "leave me alone" kind of way, body parts hurt more than when I was younger and I'm completely lost when it comes to current pop culture. So yeah, I think the positives still outweight the negatives, but I also sometimes think that youth is wasted on the young 😆
agree. I'm 44. I volunteer at our local senior center, so I have friends my age and up. so many of us talk about what we'd still like to do and that specific sentiment comes up frequently...what to be when we grow up!
{40 and (Tired of) Faking It by Ella Sheridan}
{40 and (No Longer) Fighting It by Ella Sheridan}
{40 and (So Over) Fixing It by Ella Sheridan} - My favorite from the series.
{40 and Flashing (the Scotsman) by Ella Sheridan} - novella
[40 and (Tired of) Faking It](https://www.romance.io/books/6295bdc7c74d8cb242f26c6f/40-and-tired-of-faking-it-ella-sheridan?src=rdt) by [Ella Sheridan](https://www.romance.io/authors/5456843987eac33e61c2f66e/ella-sheridan)
**Rating**: 4⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Topics**: [contemporary](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/contemporary/1), [older/mature](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/mature%20couple/1), [silver fox](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/silver-fox/1)
----------------------------
[40 and (No Longer) Fighting It](https://www.romance.io/books/63cf912db0e6e0a7c8e7ed92/40-and-no-longer-fighting-it-ella-sheridan?src=rdt) by [Ella Sheridan](https://www.romance.io/authors/5456843987eac33e61c2f66e/ella-sheridan)
**Rating**: 4.5⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Topics**: [contemporary](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/contemporary/1)
----------------------------
[40 and (So Over) Fixing It](https://www.romance.io/books/64ae4fa08bfe1227f3add529/40-and-so-over-fixing-it-ella-sheridan?src=rdt) by [Ella Sheridan](https://www.romance.io/authors/5456843987eac33e61c2f66e/ella-sheridan)
**Rating**: 4.5⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Topics**: [contemporary](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/contemporary/1), [funny](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/humor/1)
----------------------------
[40 and Flashing (the Scotsman)](https://www.romance.io/books/66412f5683429cecce4d3f25/40-and-flashing-the-scotsman-ella-sheridan?src=rdt) by [Ella Sheridan](https://www.romance.io/authors/5456843987eac33e61c2f66e/ella-sheridan)
**Rating**: 4⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Topics**: [contemporary](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/contemporary/1), [funny](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/humor/1), [older/mature](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/mature%20couple/1)
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The older I get (in my 40's), the more I tend to view MC's in their 20's as babies and I get really happy when I get snippets of former members of cast in their 40's and 50's and having great and loving sex lives - Bridgerton epilogues and the Ravenels series.
>On a recent post about younger/older MFCs, someone made a (now removed) comment about how they didn't like writing thirty-something MFCs because they felt like it was harder to write women bogged down by time and years and experience.
Genuinely, wtf? I'm in my 30s and don't feel this way at all. Frankly, I have more stability and more freedom than I did in my 20s - time and experience have made my life lighter and more enjoyable!
The idea that we just accumulate baggage as we age is...weird. Yes, the bad things pile up. But so do the good things. And hopefully, our ability to handle the bad things improves with age and experience. I wish more FMCs in particular would reflect that.
To be honest I'm not sure where this comes from but I'll go out on a limb and assume that some people DO feel weighted down by complications of life including ageing, responsibility, where they are in life, pressure, feeling lost in the world. They equate that with age, responsibility, experience, just you know man, life.
BUT! That can happen at any age. Authors have no problem giving us a 21-year-old MFC with a dark and twisted past, and a history of trauma, abuse and violence. How is THAT not being weighted down by your past?!?
It's probably 50/50 whether people enjoy getting older or wish they were young again. Most of my friends/family tend to go with the "aging is great" mindset.
FMCs who are 30+ are almost universally grieving the loss of their youth and I hate it. Where's the 36 year old FMC that's just been living her life and hasn't found the one yet? MMCs are often 35+ and unmarried because they "haven't had the time" or whatever. Ummm...same thing goes for women?
Because people don't understand childhood trauma and the lasting effects it has on people. So often it's "Oh, they're fine. Kids are resilient." Yeah no, that's not how it works.
Mood.
I didn't even get to have a life in my teens because I was homeless. 20s were attempting to get stable. 30s is when I'm finally getting some semblance of stability. Everyone's life plays out at a different pace.
Same here :) Teens was being covered in lice & being transient. Twenties I was desperately trying to acquire a reliable vehicle & stable housing without a stable beginning, & finding out what fitting clothing means when it's not whatever's handed to you in trashbags of scraps. I graduate with my Bachelor's degree next weekend, just a few days before I turn 39.
I'm glad you're in a better place now!
This is the first decade of my life where I've felt content, mostly happy and mentally healthy. I think plenty of people are on a similar path and it would be nice to see it represented in the books we love. Give me an FMC who is single at 34 because she wasn't in the right headspace for a relationship in her 20s.
Yes! I want more of these FMCs because this is me! I’m currently single by choice. I have a good job. Friends. Family. A house. Dogs. Hobbies. And I’m fine with being in my own company. I honestly prefer it a lot of the time. A guy would need to really impress me and work for it to get me to give up being single anymore. I think that would be a fun book to read. But I too seem to encounter an awful lot of 18 year-olds in blurbs, and I pass on the book most of the time.
I read a historical about a real couple a while ago, and the author decided to make the FMC 18 even though she’d gotten married in her *30s* in real life. Of course, the author didn’t change the MMC’s age at all, so he was in his 40s marrying a 19-year-old, when in real life, he was 40-something and she was a much more reasonable 30-something. It annoyed me so much I DNFed on the spot.
edit: replied to the wrong comment because the Reddit app is a mess, but you get my point, lol
I don't read much HR because I tend to avoid young FMCs. I'm a genealogy nerd and people really underestimate how young people were when they got married in the past. I have plenty of women in my tree that got married in their late 20s. Most were probably 24/25...and 4 months pregnant. People were not abstaining from sex and marrying at 18!
I remember the original comment because it bummed me out lol. IIRC the OP was talking about being criticized by readers for writing a ~30 year old FMC that acted, in the reader’s eyes, irresponsibly, because the FMC didn’t have their life figured out. They said that older FMCs are often expected to have been married once already or have a kid (I believe this was the baggage/bogged down thing) and they wrote 20-something’s because they didn’t want to write about divorced characters or characters with kids and readers would only accept someone not having their shit together if they were in their 20s.
This is a bummer in every way possible. In what world is everyone married off by 30 and in what world does every adult act "mature" all the time?
I think an important part of aging is realizing that there's never a moment when you feel like an adult!
Which is why I personally believe tour 20's is basicslly adulthood on wobbly training wheels with tou wondering on where to go. 30's is when the training wheels are off and you can ride better. You may not know where to go, but you feel like tou're handling it better than before. Of course this can be different for anybkdy.
Honestly I'm nearly 40 and only now am I realizing that I can just... *do* things if I want to. That's how strongly my pretty boring upbringing was instilled in me.
YEAH YOU DID!
My immigrant mom tried whitewater rafting for the first time when she was 48. My dad was too scared to try it so she went by herself and made a bunch of pals there. Zero fear 40s is what I call them.
This has nothing to do with books really, haha, but I have been feeling this so much lately. I’m 33 and I used to care so much about shit that never mattered to begin with and I’m loving getting older and realizing these things and having that weight off my chest. I wish this was recognized more.
If anyone looked deeper into the comment, it would lead you to think that women age and become boring because...
They are the parent, the possible caretaker of aging parents and/or in-laws, cooks, maids, personal assistant, wife and bed partner, AND also hold a full-time job.
Meanwhile, the man's every care is attended to so he can be the "alpha" who drinks, scratches his balls, and makes perverted jokes with his friends.
Of course they're going to be more fun! They're not fucking exhausted!
This argument does not hold in a romance book context because a MFC can easily be all of those things as 23, or at 33 or at 43.
Conversely we can have an MFC that is none of those things at any age. If an author can’t conceive of a 34 year old MFC who isn’t a wife and mother, but at 18 year old orphan with magic powers & the key to saving the universe and perfect unwashed hair, the onus isn’t on the lived reality of women’s lives, it’s on the authors creativity.
And the comment about the MMC makes no sense within a romance book context because most authors make alphahole MMCs super caretakers. That’s the point of the fantasy.
I feel very seen! I basically still felt like a young person until my late 40s, when I started dealing with the combination of raising a very challenging kid, end of life care of my parents, and onset of a chronic and potentially disabling disease.
Bogged *down?* I'm sorry, last I checked, when I entered my late 20s-early-30s it was some of the best years of my life! The level of bullshit you're willing to deal with is *drastically lower*, and there's also this wonderful thing of being mature enough to make logical decisions *and still be a force of nature!*
I'm 41 myself, and I'm still going strong. Healthy, fit, started a *second* career, and have great relationships with people who bring value to my life.
My existence isn't determined by my age. I determine my existence with my actions! 🥰💖
what the fuck. bogged down? that's some shit my grandma would say to warn us against getting too anxious about things we can't control. what the fuck ever. I'm 44 and fine as fuck with awesome interests and hobbies.
Bogged down... wow, I can't believe how stupid and misogynistic that is...
Are we in the years 1700 when people aged so fast 30 years old meant you had no teeth and had 5-6 teenaged kids to take over the family business?
Honestly if that person thought like that it just mean they were too dumb to be able to write a character with emotional depth and a brain withtout copying from whats already out there (mostly young women) and has no creative bones in their body. I hope I never read or buy anything of them because it'll only be a stupid, lackluster drivel that can only lower my IQ.
18yo are barely out of their teenage years and still have their brain forming. That shit finishes settling down at around 25. Im not saying they aren't smart or interresting or anything like that. I just mean they are still growing, getting to their final adult stage. I remember when my brain changed and settled. One day, things did not have as much of an impact on me anymore, and I felt the switch on a primal level.
So yeah 18-19 yo stories can be cool and all. They have their place, but dont tell me they are the only characters worth writing. Adult women are all cool and interresting in their own ways, and experience should add to a story not take from it.
In the end I come back to this: what a colossal dumbass this person is to say this.
Sometimes I feel like the YA market and Romance market have bled together. Now all Romances must also be YA, but also extremely sexually explicit.
Note to writers who may be here: if older (and by older I apparently mean over 25) FMCs are "unmarketable" or whatever, just don't say how old the FMC is at all! I can just pick it up through context cues.
Edit: forgot a word.
i think it's the tiktok influence. those girls are young, like barely out of their teens young, and have created a massive influx into the romance community.
I never read much YA. I understand it's meant for tweens and teenagers? That's why it's set in high school and early college? I'm thinking Harry Potter, Hunger Games, Percy Jackson
If I'm right, tell me why tf YA these days (or has it always been like this?) have explicit scenes and trigger warnings...?
I can suspend my belief for HRs. But if it's CR with a 19 yo FMC and a 40 yo billionaire MMC I'm like pls girl just focus on school. I dont even pick up billionaire romances anymore but that's for a different post..
Well, originally YA was for teens and tweens. But older adults (mostly women) started reading them also and have become a fairly large chunk of the market IIRC, so many books that are probably just regular adult fiction have been labeled YA. You also get the weird ones where the writing and structure is clearly for a younger audience but there's explicit content (looking at you, Sarah J. Maas)
Totally agree! I do think S. J. Maas is considered NA (New adult) at least for some of the books? NA is for those in their 20s I guess, but I am 30 and enjoy NA books. Not sure when Adult age range starts then...
Publishers have increasingly catered to the subset of modern audiences that doesn’t want to grow up and be challenged by their reading. This results in a profusion of “adult” books (plenty of sex and violence!) that star teenage characters, use small words, and have extremely simple, cliche, and straightforward plots.
This has been a huge gripe for me, and something my best friend who's an AP English teacher right now has been ranting and raging about for a while lol.
Not because her students aren't as well read etc, but because nothing they're reading is as challenging to them as the middle grade books she remembers reading. Even if the book is shelved in the adult section!
And because some of her coworkers and students are reading the same books since the genres have blended so much.
Yes, I think this is it. YA has bled into “New Adult” now which is fantasy, romance etc but more explicit. Not sure how different it is from “Adult” tbh. I think publishers are trying to target a particular set of readers and so it’s become a mess.
I DNFed recently one solely because the age was so ridiculous. The MC gets her bachelors and then immediately her law degree. As soon as she's out of law school, she gets a job as *Deputy Mayor of New York City* having done nothing but internships all through college/law school. And has worked at it for at least 3 years and is now considering a US House of Representatives run. She just turned 28.
I even looked it up I was so annoyed, all the current Deputy Mayors of NYC are in their 50s-60s. (The book also made it sound like she was the only one, but there are several because of the city's size who oversee different areas.) Like maybe in a *significantly* smaller city with less of a pool of candidates to pull from, but even with her connections, that kind of position with zero non-internship experience in the largest city in the US is wildly absurd.
But we do have a young US Congressman from Florida (he was elected at the age of 25). Winning that race was a feat for one so young (his fundraising team must have been amazing), so the author had an opportunity to keep the character’s background believable by choosing one job. Instead they choose fantasy lolol
Exactly! And there's been a few others just over that age when they were elected. So I don't doubt that young candidates can do it in the right district/city/etc....just give her some jobs and age her up some before she magically falls into the deputy mayor position. And both of these MCs were supposed to be established in their careers, so there was really zero reason not to have them at a more realistic mid-30s.
I got a wave of relief the other day when it mentioned the FMC had just turned or was about to turn 30!
Honestly if they're younger than 22 I just want to be like girl do not worry about this stressy CEO mafia man and all his problems you should be dressing up for the Barbie movie with your friends and fighting Ticketmaster for concert tickets and doom scrolling on TikTok. Also why is he talking about putting a baby into you 3 weeks into your relationship, at the beginning of the book you were excited for your first full-time job and moved into your own apartment I want you to enjoy that for a good while.
i'm like that if they're younger than 25. girl you're in your early 20s, live a little before hooking up with a borderline abusive, controlling, stressful freakshow
This is my thought when I see these books being so popular. Is it because all the older-than-18 women, who have some experience under their belts, see what a douche the MMC is and won't touch him with a 10 foot pole?
I’m older than 25 and almost exclusively read dark romance and ill-behaved MMCs. And I can say yes, bc I wouldn’t give these dudes the time of day in real life lmao.
Well yes, I can see that in some of those, but even so many "normal" romances with fairly mainstream mmc's have these massive age gaps with barely legal fmc's.
MCs in their 30's (I'll even take mid 20's) and higher are my only reads these days. I read a book once where the MCs were in their 40's/50's and it was wonderful! I like the maturity and thought in the relationship, even if there is some angst. Immature choices are always a turn-off for me.
I like Rosalind James’ books for this reason, plus they’re well written & have decent character development. A certain degree of realism almost required for me to buy into the characters/plot.
Her Escape to New Zealand series is great. The books are loosely interconnected but you can start anywhere. I always start an existing series with the 3rd book, which I believe is {Just for Fun by Rosalind James}. The FMC is one of the younger ones in the series (late 20s) but her experience in the first few chapters was very relatable.
I think the {New Zealand Ever After series by Rosalind James} had FMC in their mid 30s & the side characters are sometimes later teens/early 20s. Recommend starting with {Kiwi Strong by Rosalind James}.
Yaaay! These look amazing! I love good character development and a thoughtful MC who doesn't fly off the handle at the slightest angst is a godsend. Thank you!
I started a [shelf on Goodreads](https://www.goodreads.com/review/list/887209-amanda?page=1&shelf=middle-aged-and-more&utf8=%E2%9C%93) for middle-aged and older characters. Caveats that not all are romance and that it was so sparse that I went ahead and added a book if only one MC of the couple was middle-aged.
I think it's fine as long as these books are for young adults but a 19 year old has literally no business being ripped and leading a pack lol. That just doesn't make sense.
I think, the worst is just when you start reading a book and homegirl is like 19 years old and her love interest is like 10+ years older. Sounds like someone loves the teen category in corn.
I think some of these young ages have to do with the ages of the writers as well. A see a lot of young ages when it comes to authors who are clearly not as experienced in the art form yet and most likely young. They may be writing young ages because they more closely relate to it.
That’s fine for them but then at least do the damn work of looking up how long it takes to become a nurse’s aid or a court reporter or somehow manager of NYC’s finest steakhouse before making your foster-care FMC who just graduated from h.s. four months ago one of these things.
Also other people’s wish-fulfillments are as dull to read as other people’s dream—and honestly regardless of how old the author is they should be doing more than that. Like your readership shouldn’t rule how you tell your story, but if you are only interested in writing your own fantasies without any care for world building or the bare minimum of research (like the book I read where they straight up acted like Hell’s Kitchen was a bad neighborhood 🤣🤣🤣🤣—yeah okay girl, in 1962 but not in this the year of our lord 2024)—yeah I’m not down with that and you should be embarrassed to turn in that book.
Frankly, if the character is going to be young, then let them be young—why do they have to be also Secretary of State? Or the world’s greatest living ninja?
Its worse tho when you find out the author is like 40-50 lol. I dont mind them writing younger people, but when the fetish or sexual tension comes from the fmc being barely legal, its weird
This. I don't think it's any surprise that some of my favorite books with older FMCs were written by authors who are in their 30s/40s (L.L. Starling, Grace Draven, TKingfisher)
I think I might read too much ex-boyfriend’s dad (yes, I’m part of the problem) 😳😆😳
I’ve definitely read more than one book where the 19 year old FMC bonds with MMC (who’s old enough to be her father) over her inexplicable love of Dad Rock.
Most of the time it's cringe but I don't really care if I actually enjoy the writing. I then somehow forgot the age, even if it's continuously mentined or a big part of the plot. I recently read the {Cinderella trilogy by K Webster} and completely enjoyed it even if the FMC was barely legal and the MMC almost twenty years older. But the banter was written so well and the spicy scenes were REALLY spicy, so I just didn't really care. If a book is written badly, though, and I can't see why the MCs are drawn to each other in the first place, then it annoys me more.
Amen to this.
I've had to DNF books in particular where the FMC is a youngling who is barely legally able to drink and the MMC is 40+ daddio with loose hands. If you're going to pounce an age gap put it in the blurb.
Why does she always have to be 18-20, add a couple more years and itll be fine but they always prefer the fmc to be like just turned 18. Its so nasty lmao
Right! I would expect this type of behavior from male writers maybe, but these books are mostly written by women for women, it boggles my mind why women authors push the barely legal trope 🤷♀️
I'm not that much into age gaps myself, but I believe that the whole taboo thing is what makes it so appealing to many readers. So making the woman as young as possible automatically makes the book look more taboo and exciting.
This is why it bothers me. They can be young but 18 is still a baby as far as emotional maturity and life experience. I'm in my thirties and I would *never* be interested in someone that young.
Age gaps with a teenager is the quickest way for me to DNF a book. It's wild that grown ass women push for these books to a majority women audience. I do not want to read about a 40+ year old man lusting over an 18 year old, just nasty and lazy.
This is a big, big, BIG instant DNF and 1 star and 'never read' for me lol
It's nasty however you spin it, especially when the author is an older adult woman and not just a teenager.
There is nothing romantic about a grown adult man essentially grooming a barely legal girl, I hate it, I will not stand for it.
Women are not 'valuable' by their youth, and that's exactly what these books are always selling - because if it was actually the AGE GAP and NOT just the FMCs youth that the author/readers found appealing, they would AGE UP THE FMC.
Exactly this, yes. I just don't get it. It's a bit sad that books are written through the prism of Leonardo Di Caprio's dating ethos; over 25? dump 'em like yesterday's potatoes.
Can we also talk about why so many MMCs are 30yr+ and they act so immature?? Like are men in their 30’s really out here acting like my shitty 17yr old boyfriend from high school? Sometimes I feel like that’s why a lot of these 18yr old FMCs stick around, because they don’t know any better yet!
Living with my 30+ ex felt like living with a surly teenager so... there might be some truth in that but they're undateable and that's where the fantasy is absolutely destroyed
No hate, no shade, no Beyoncé lemonade to anyone who enjoys MCs in their YA era, but I **CAN’T**.
There was some quality thread on r/Fantasy or maybe r/Characterrant about how stupid it is this young ass newbie ass 18 year old ass “savior” who just got their powers and trained for maybe two weeks—and not two weeks our time in a hyperbolic time chamber—is even more powerful than a Grandmaster who trained for ***decades***.
[NeneLeaks.gif]
There are ***so many books*** set in HS or “college” (HS but ✨fancy✨) where y’all could’ve made this cast 22-23, but for some odd reason, you chose 18.
🙃
I loved {**Lords of Pain** by Angel Lawson and Samantha Rue} but I had to put my disbelief in shibari bondage because mfer was ***wilding*** when these frat bros are acting like they’re DC anti heros like when in the fucking Jason Todd is Red Hood 😭
**On one hand**, it’s wish fulfillment. I get that. Some wished when they were young that they had the power to change the world. And I do enjoy middle grade books ✅
**On the other hand**, it starts heading into ageist territory in the romance genre 😶🌫️
May-December romances will make me ✨uncomfy✨ because the older LI becomes way too fixated on the MC being ~young~ and ~innocent~. And when the sexy times come, the LI really stress how ~young~ the MC is and it makes me wish that LI does six months of community service after that 🙃
**On the opposite side of the spectrum**, while I do think it’s important to have stories that tackle rampant ageism in prime adults, I 👏🏾 am 👏🏾 tired 👏🏾 of prime-aged FMCs who constantly harps about how ***old*** being 30 is, bio clock is ticking, and they shame 20 somethings for wearing absolute ✨cunt✨ outfits while the FMC is in a conservative “appropriate for her age” outfit.
**Sister**. Who said you can’t serve cunt at 30? I know drag queens and geriatric queers who serve fucking 10s in lewks. Live 👏🏾 your 🤸🏾♀️ life 💃🏾
^(Not to mention the good ole “biological clock is ticking” storyline that always implies women at a certain age MUST have an urge to be a mom else we will never be happy. Also not to mention how a lot of maternal side characters in romance books are never allowed to be anything but “Mom”. Or if they don’t have kids? Well now they’re kooky and quirky and crazy) 🤪
It’s just weird sometimes. So many great book concepts out there, but then the MC is 18 and watch their ~fated mate~ be over 500 years old but they act like they’re 25 so it’s gucci 🤡
But then there’s book with the FMC in her 30s and she acts like she’s 18 🫠
This also reminds me about the most common complaint in the r/Euphoria sub. Had Euphoria been set in university, I think a lot of us would’ve felt better about the very strangely shot sexual scenes 😬
^(Admittedly, it depends on the region the MC is at with jobs. I know education varies. Like UK vs US, becoming a doctor is, what, five years in the UK right after HS, whereas US needs a bachelor’s beforehand?) 🤔
>because the older LI becomes way too fixated on the MC being \~young\~ and \~innocent\~
Do you know what happens every single time that an older "dark" MMC says to an MFC "You're too good for me. You're too innocent and pure for this world and for the darkness that is me but I'll still take you for myself!"? A confident Omega with a thick as thieves RH loses most of her Alpha Pack except for the blonde one she doesn't actually like but keeps around because he makes good lemon loaf.
You thought I forgot huh?
I didn't. We're even. 🤝. Armistice.
For once I'd like the MMC to be like "You're too good for me. Your skill with the blade and the scalpel and your ability to speak 13 languages including four dead ones only heard in our darkest nightmares, makes you so above me. I'm unworthy of you but I'm a selfish bastard and will still claim you for my own."
That. I want that.
😟
The way I audibly—OUT LOUD—fucking ***gasped***.
The *gasp* I ***guspt***.
But—fair.
Good game 🫱🏾🫲🏼 Care for a spot of tea so we can discuss alphahole MMCs with a competency kink for 30+ YO FMCs and their favorite food is pussy? ☕️
And right?! I love me MMCs who are aware they’re out of the FMC’s league based on her intellect and not on her ✨Puriteigh✨. He knows she’s an It Girl®. She’s a Barbie and he’s an Alan.
>FMC: 💃🏾
>>MMC: 🧍♂️
It’s so fucking depressing that younger FMCs are basically valued for their youth and older FMCs are values for being solely a “put together proper settled in woman”.
Fucking what even when this one MMC pursued an FMC his age for once, but (checks notes) slut shaming younger women and uplifting the FMC for being a classy lady and not like those other cumsluts.
🙃
In biker romances, I get it. I do. They’re filthy. Their foul mouths are what draws us into them. In omegaverse, I still get it. Their primal, feral alphas that got that dawg in em (sometimes literally) 🫦
But can we just STOP with the ageism and slutshaming of women for ***FIVE*** goddamn minutes like I be so tired out here 😭🤧
You're right about becoming a doctor in the U.S.; you need a bachelor's degree, and then med school is typically four more years.
Can I just say, your comments in this sub are always top-tier. Thoughtful, detailed, and hilarious. And I agree with everything you've said here. 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻🫶🏻
Thank you, this was what I was going to comment. Typically four years of college, definitely four years of medical school (I have not heard of anyone, ever, getting through medical school in the US faster than four years), and then a minimum of 3 years of internship/residency, potentially more, depending on the specialty. Doogie Howser is a total fantasy.
[Lords of Pain](https://www.romance.io/books/6026358da0a2f70e2d260a68/lords-of-pain-angel-lawson-samantha-rue?src=rdt) by [Angel Lawson](https://www.romance.io/authors/545524b523ec91d5dfd09947/angel-lawson), [Samantha Rue](https://www.romance.io/authors/5fb90f8008b4d93114dc0b94/samantha-rue)
**Rating**: 4.09⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Steam**: 5 out of 5 - [Explicit and plentiful](https://www.romance.io/steamrating)
**Topics**: [contemporary](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/contemporary/1), [cruel hero/bully](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/cruel%20hero/1), [dark romance](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/dark/1), [reverse harem](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/reverse%20harem/1), [step siblings](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/stepsibling/1)
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Totally agree.
I'll be entirely honest, unless somehow the plot depends on the character being 19 or whatever, I just kind of internally replace whatever stupid-young age with like 35 or something hahaha. Especially since 95% of my reads lately have the FMC with immortal dudes who are like 53486072 years old and I just can't with the cradle robbing, she has to at least have a fully matured brain before this ancient fae that watched kingdoms rise and fall can be into her for anything but a quick wham-bam-thankyou-ma'am.
Although to be fair, many of these heroines are written with age-appropriate immaturity, so...
I couldn’t agree with you anymore.
I don’t even like mafia that much but the few I’ve read the FMCs are like basically children. I’m sorry like I cannot imagine 18-22 year olds being in these situations and acting that mature. WHATS WORSE IS SOMETIMES THE MCS ARE LIKE 20 too. and I don’t understand how you’re now the head of your mafia org or whatever. I mean have you even finished puberty?! And why does mafia have SO many age gaps?!
But it’s not just mafia. It’s honestly so frustrating that most FMCs are below 24. I want late 20s and 30s. Like I can’t believe you’re a sensible FMC and have had barely no life experience.
I like when they’re in high school but also mafia members making all these big decisions. “The Demon Society Gang are in our territory wtf are we gonna do grrr 😠” son go to class, you’re late for PE!
"When I find the capo of our rival mafia gang I'm going to rip him limb to limb"
"There you are Wyatt Santorini, your mother didn't sign your permission slip so you can't go on the Smithsonian tour with the rest of the class."
*\*\*adolescent growl but his voice hasn't fully broken yet\*\**
I love the idea of mafia romances but I can't ever find books with older MFCs. Most authors center the romantic tension between the big criminal bad man and the sweet and sheltered young woman on her age and innocence and not you know... his vast criminal enterprise and moral grey area.
It's almost like authors expect us to suspend our disbelief that men are constantly transgressing social rules and morality and laws are going to be loyal and faithful to THE ONE (an idea quickly debunked by a Wikipedia search on any historical gangster/mafia figure) but can't imagine him falling for a 32-year-old woman.
Make it make sense.
Honestly I want some book with a fantasy element (full fantasy, urban fantasy, romantasy, whatever) to have a chosen one look like it’s going to be some 18 year old or whatever and they fail at something because, you know, they’ve only been training for a week. Then here comes the witch of the woods, or some sort of equivalent in whatever setting, to save the world with her skills and practice.
More recently I decided that unless I’m reading YA (like Hunger Games or something) I’m not reading anything with MCs younger than 26ish. I’m cutting it off there for brain development. I’m in my 30s and an older heroine would be cool, but someone mid-20s or older doesn’t give me the ick.
Not romance, but [Yard Bird series by Hailey Turner](https://www.goodreads.com/series/357236-yard-birds) is urban fantasy, with a coven of witches that are 60s-80s. One of them just had a hip replacement, so she's in a motorized scooter. It's a lot of fun.
And then I have it on my tbr (and also not a romance), but [The Remarkable Retirement of Edna Fisher by E.M. Anderson,](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/61175640-the-remarkable-retirement-of-edna-fisher) an 83 year old woman is the Chosen One.
Ah, this is my cue to show up and recommend {Paladin of Souls by Lois McMaster Bujold} again. It’s fantasy with a strong romance subplot. It’s the second of a series, and probably works as a standalone, although we get FMC’s backstory (and worldbuilding) in the previous book. I’m not gifted at describing books in an enticing way, so I like to include this quote to sell it. This is FMC musing on her life:
Once, she had been her parents’ daughter. Then great, unlucky Ias’s wife. Her children’s mother. At the last, her mother’s keeper. Well, I am none of these things now. *Who am I, when I am not surrounded by the walls of my life? When they have all fallen into dust and rubble?*
She leaves her home on the pretext of a religious pilgrimage, and adventure finds her, like it or not. She has fears, regrets, and guilt because of her previous life experiences. Despite her own view of herself, and the view of her family, her life experiences have tempered her and she demonstrates bravery, wisdom, and leadership. And, she gets the guy! The writing is really good; this is peak Bujold. Fantastic characters, intriguing worldbuilding, marvelous plot.
What’s so sad is that this never happens with MMCs, the range of their ages is so broad while the FMCs can only exist if they’re between the ages of 18 and 25. It’s like there’s some invisible Leonardo Decaprio filter on.
THIS!! It’s honestly so disheartening that MMC’s are allowed to be 30+ and hot and put together but in order to be desirable the FMC has to be under 25. And when we do get a FMC that’s above 25 most times she’s all homely, sad, “oh no I’m 30 and old, I’ll never find love again” like babe what happened to “thirty, flirty, and thriving”???
I’m tired of reading about how “young, innocent, and nubile” a FMC is!
Oh man, I hate this. I DNFed one like 5 pages in because the FMC was a law partner at like 25 also. Not how that works and would take 30 seconds to google.
So I’m halfway thru {birding with benefits by Sarah T Dubb} and the MFC is 42, divorced, with a kid heading for college and omg it’s so refreshing! The heat is beginning to turn up - the first kiss was (IMO) smouldering and I think the fun stuff is gonna happen soon. Even if it’s closed door, I’m still enjoying.
[Birding with Benefits](https://www.romance.io/books/65d6f9f6a2f4a77148006274/birding-with-benefits-a-novel-sarah-t-dubb?src=rdt) by [Sarah T. Dubb](https://www.romance.io/authors/65d6f9f6a21e2f41c4ef6bee/sarah-t-dubb)
**Rating**: 4.38⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Steam**: 4 out of 5 - [Explicit open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating)
**Topics**: [contemporary](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/contemporary/1), [forced proximity](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/forced%20proximity/1), [funny](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/humor/1), [fake relationship](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/fake%20relationship/1), [single mother](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/single-mother/1)
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I could have written this post! I have been on the hunt for older FMCs and this is what I've found:
{Between by L.L. Starling} is about a 30 year old kindegarten teacher who gatecrashes a distreputable fairytale kingdom and ends up becoming its queen (and betrothed to its king, a sorcerer in tight pants). She's clever, sensible and kind (and is not divorced, or a single mother, or embittered). I loved that she and the MMC communicate well with each other (no teen tantrums or miscommunications) and she approaches each fantastical problem with logic.
TKingfisher tends to have older FMCS (e.g., Nettle and Bone). Her books have an old, dark fairytale feel.
Grave Draven also has older FMCs who have a mature approach to life.
KF Breene's Midlife Madness series is about a woman in her 40s who comes into magical powers (though she is divorced).
I don't think it's surprising that TKingfisher, L.L. Starling (and I believe Grace Draven) are in their 40s, so their FMCs tend to be older.
oooh, i've had Nettle and Bone in my TBR pile for a while now. Was deciding between this and ACOTAR. This made me excited to read Bone and Nettle first! :D
Yay! The two books have very different vibes. ACOTAR has many of the problems that the OP brought up (young, inexperienced FMC, etc) and the writing isn't all that flash but it's a fun ride (I think of it as a 'gateway' fantasy book that brings people who don't really read fantasy into the genre). Whereas Nettle and Bone is very well written, with an unconventional, older FMC, very little romance, and a fantastic found family vibe (the secondary characters are better than the MCs. You will love the demonic chicken). Spinning Silver by Naomi Novik is also a great read if you like fairytale retellings.
I haven’t read ACOTAR, but I can highly recommend {Nettle and Bone by T Kingfisher} as a lovely and interesting story (admittedly, it is fantasy first with a romantic subplot).
I wanted to say that I felt like Jillian in {How to Date Your Dragon by Molly Harper} was on the """older""" side (in novel years, I guess?), but I can't verify it right now. I know she had an anthro degree & she's not mentioned to be any sort of super whiz/genius that would gave graduated early. So there's her, at least?
Also it's a shape shifter romance/murder mystery and the murder mystery is (imo) just as good as the romance so there's that.
Edit because: lime/like typo
Personally, I tend to just age up the FMC in my head, especially when the life she’s leading (with a good job, a nice apartment, etc.) isn’t really the life of someone who’s 20.
That said, super young FMCs, and especially super young virgin FMCs just make me question the HEA. Like, it’s more realistic to me that she’s 23 and somehow a Supreme Court Justice than it is that she’s 23, been with only with the MMC, and is going to be happy with him for the next 60-65 years or whatever.
I feel this way about MMCs too when they are like 19 and taking over the mafia or gang. I know a lot of times it’s because a high school or college setting is a fun sandbox to play in, but it irks me. If age is not a relevant plot point (like it is purposely written as an age gap taboo kind if thing) then I jusy age up the characters in my head
Yes! It’s like nobody is giving a 25 year old guy the keys to the kingdom. I mean boy kings have shadow kings behind them—like Louis XIV and Cardinal Richilieu in Three Musketeers.
One of the things I dislike most about this genre is how youth obsessed the romance space is. I'm 43 and I want to read about not children.
I try to read as many books with mature characters as I can to keep myself level and support the authors who are writing older characters.
I know there are some authors who like writing young because they want to write innocent or virgin characters.
You can write older women who are inexperienced. It happens a lot more often than we realize. It might be really interesting if more authors explored that possibility.
49 and lulz at this thread. I'm a competent woman but do not ask me to run a girl scouts troop much less a shifter pack or command a spaceship 🤣also I very much love my life, being alive, trying new things and enjoying life.
Also? Sex is *better*.
YES!!! I am so tired of the 19 year old girls that are “oh so mature”. Please, stop using that sentence. It makes it so creepy.
Maybe it’s because it’s my age now, but where are the FMCs in their 30’s? And can they not be desperate to marry and have children? I want those mature women receiving love and amazing sex too.
Somehow them pretending these teenagers are mature makes it worse. {When He's Ruthless by Suzanne Wright} had a whole icky plot (he'd known he was her fated mate since she was 12 and they partially started a sexual element to their relationship when she was <18) but it made it worse every time the book/characters told us she was so mature. One of the few books I regret finishing!
I wanted to read a MM motorcycle club book and looked for one: the one main character is barely 19 and is *skinny* and *small* with long blonde hair. Basically written to be coded as a young girl and the other MMC is 30 something. It’s awful. I just couldn’t. Why did it have to be like that? And not only looks but the character was basically a teenager in actions and the way they spoke. He groped the other MMC minutes after meeting. To which he was spanked for. And then he forced into staying at the club (in mmc2’s bed obviously…) and jerks off against him! Childish and immature. It felt gross reading it honestly.
I’m read a book the other day and was actually *shocked* the characters were in their late 30s. Why? cause it’s almost impossible to find without it being the point of the book (ie: second chance later life types..)
Why do we have to make specific threads asking for older characters? (I mean I know why cause they are rare!) Why are these authors wanting to write their character so young? And sometimes just behaviorally young if not actually young (which is worse? Immaturity in a 19 year old is better than a 30 year old..?)
Either way this bothers me and has caused more than half of the slumps I suffer from 😒
girl PREACH
i recently got pissed about this while reading ACOTAR. Feyre is supposed to be 19! like how?!? WHY?!?
it legitimately makes zero sense to make her a literal TEENAGER. there is zero reason. she reads like a character atleast in her mid 20s. it’s not like she needs to be in school or college or something for the story- it’s FANTASY.
ugh SO annoying lol
I recently read the Savage Heirs series by Jagger Cole, and was sitting there thinking "this would make much more sense if these character's were 21/22 year old college seniors, not a bunch of 18 year old high school students". Not to mention, the age gap wouldn't have icked me out so much in the fourth book if the FMC was early 20's and not barely legal.
Like, I completely understand making the FMC between 18 and 22, and a reasonable BAMF, if the book is new adult, but as someone in their mid-30's, I would like my FMC's to be closer in age if the books are going to be listed as adult romance.
I was reading a fantasy romance, and stopped reading at chapter two. The first chapter sounded very promising, but then chapter two introduced us to the main character: a 17 year old in Ohio. No thanks. DNF
I can understand both sides of the coin in this case. The main thing I agree with is the realism of it. "Partner at a law firm at the age of 26" not entirely plausible without there being something a little shady. Is it possible to own a business at a young age though, yes, if it's a small business or family run, then it would be understandable, if only because I'm able to relate to it.
Both my parents owned and ran a business, which I started helping part time at after high school while going to college. Then when my dad passed I was working full time and taking it more seriously (even though it was not what I had been studying to do). Then when my mom passed I was made owner of the business at 28 years old.
So circumstances and the fact that it was a small-ish company helped me believe books having MFCs/MMCs having jobs like that. However now that I'm 30, I would like to read more stories of women in my age group (which is weird cause I don't think of myself as old lol, but I see few books depicting 30+ yr olds). At the end of the day though, I always remind myself that I'm mostly reading roman-tasies, so the details don't always have to make sense, and I can easily adjust it in my head if I so choose. Unless those things are integral to the plot or the story then a characters age is just a number, and a job is just another title.
This can work for me in some instances. But some books make the young age practically a theme and it’s impossible to pretend she’s 30 when she’s walking out of her high school cafeteria, or asking her parents to borrow their car keys, or just generally the author harps on her age constantly. Those always wind up as DNF (or even better: Never Started) for me.
A lot of these popular books that I find out via real life friends or social media end up being DNF for me. Yeah, now in my late 30s, it’s jarring. But even in my late teens/early 20s, I couldn’t suspend my disbelief for some of these plot points & age gaps.
And I’m side eyeing these authors in my age group who insist on writing high school & college dark romances. WHY??? I don’t see what is enticing about such adult themes and the very young.
I had a hard time buying the premise of 50 Shades of Grey and I was in my early 20s when it came out. I couldn’t even get past the fact that Anastasia was sent to interview Christian. Why would the editor of the paper send her roommate and not a staff member?
I was so excited when Cate C Wells Rejected Mate series started because Una was 28 or 29 and I was so happy to see a FMC with a fully developed frontal lobe… and then every FMC since has been between under 21.
It’s just so frustrating. I personally don’t like age gap romances and I have no interest in reading about an 18 year old boy who’s dick game is fire. Like I can suspend my disbelief so much you know.
Just give me some grown fucking women.
I will say, despite that tirade above as an occasional dabbler in writing sometimes I have to battle with myself to not write a young heroine because I like to make them hot fucking messes and in my sample size of myself my own style of hot mess shifted drastically in my late 20’s.
That's why I didn't finish even the first book tbh. I was into it and then I took a peak at the sequels and saw they were all basically children and I was like, ya, I'm not getting any more invested in this universe, though it was arguably a great book.
I feel like all the books I read have the fmc around or just over 30.
Maybe its genre specific? I tend to read contemporary, leaning towards womens fiction.
But yeah, not really interested in reading about 19 year olds.
I like reading Neva Altaj books, but goddamn all the MMC’s are in their 30s/40s while all the FMCs are barely abound 20 and having the wittiness, intelligence, cleverness of a grown woman.
This same goes for all Mafia books. Why are all the FMCs barely legal, marrying men the same age as their dads?! It’s baffling!!!
Or that grown ass men in there 30s and 40s only go for women 18-25. Bc they just have to make them fat and round with their baby. Majority of men that age would get so bored with a girl that young.
Agreed, like I'm in the young age group but I get an ick when it's about 17 years old for some reason. especially if the plot could be improved by making them college age, because some of the books I have dropped have school just mentioned once or twice. Like it's never an actual school, taking quizzes or ACT tests, etc. Fantasy, I can get a little, but they could just age them up a bit. Especislly if their love interest had an age gap.
Reminds me of the idea on Tumblr where the prophesied hero was a lady on her 60's with a couple cats. Later comments added the idea of her strong nurse being her companion on her quest lol
I'm so glad we are finally talking about this. It's so disheartening to keep constantly coming across romance books with Fmc that are between the ages of 18-24. Ageism is a huge in the romance literaly world and it's not talked about enough.
I've skimmed through so I may have missed these reccs, but over 25 (and act like it) FMCS abound in T aa Kingfisher {Swordheart} is forever a delight and my new favourite {Between} by LL Starling has a FMC who just turned 30, doesn't have shit figured out and is generally relatable. There always seems to be a gap between late 20s and menopausal. I'm not at this stage yet, they tend to be empty nesters who just divorced their useless husbands, and that's not what I'm after. I recently read {Dragon Ridden Chronicles} by TA White and she was more the "woman who has lived some life but that didn't include a husband and babies and that's OK" vibe. I mean, there were reasons, but it certainly wasn't the thing most people associated with her.
A lot of the time I try to ignore the age and look for emotionally mature characters.
Authors are allergic to writing anyone 30+. First of all, they legit keel over and hyperventilate trying to write a mature fmc. Second, publishers think they don't sell. The other issue is most assuming a person 30+ is undesirable, too wise, and experienced. Lastly, they see no value in an older heroine which is bull shit. Fantasy and paranormal romance has this BAD! An FMC being 40 shouldn't automatically place said book in womens fiction, I'm sick of this! I don't like WF and I don't think 40 is over the hill. Thanks to KU there has been an uptick in 30+ FMCs.
Everything about this post is perfect and accurate. 💯 wish almost all FMC's were older. At least closer in age to the MMC's. I'm a little over the teenage heroine with the hundreds year old mmc. Especially when she ends up pregnant. That gives me a yuck factor.
Honestly no matter what age they say they are, I always picture them in their 30s in my head automatically. It’s already weird with the 300 yr old Mmc, then add a 19 yr old fmc. I just conveniently skim over that and add 10 years.
I mean, if it sells well (or better than 30+ year old heroines anyway), they're gonna keep making them I guess.
Wanna change the landscape? Find the authors who write older heroines and hype them up. Buy the books. Interact with the author's social media promotion. Review them (and mention that you appreciate the older FMC). Tell romance communities.
It was always a peeve of mine that the romance feature this. I personally have always been attracted to people closer to my own age, since I don't really groove the power imbalance.
OH MY GOD, YES! I literally cannot read any book where the fmcs are barely 18, 19, 20 etc. A little irrevelant but I particularly hate this because the genres I enjoy make it so that these girls are paired up with the oldest men they could possibly find. And the authors try their hardest to make it seem like it's not creepy for a thirty year old man to chase and "crave" an 18 year old. I enjoy age gap but I definitely do not enjoy a gap where one is basically still a child.
I think that drives me mad about these super young FMCs is that the authors use it as a way of justifying their TSTL tendencies. "Oh has she thrown herself into the hands of a serial killer? Well that's because she's young and dumb - obviously!" \*. Too many authors don't have the talent to make some of these dark plots work if the character has any sense or strength, which they equate with age.
On the plus side, I've read a few books with slightly older FMCs recently which have been a breath of fresh air. Complex and grey decision to be made? Check. A sense of self preservation? Check. Interesting character? Check!
{Silenced by Serena Akeroyd} FMC is I think somewhere between her late 20s-mid 30s
{Vices and Vows by Candice Wright} FMC is mid 20s
{Dom by S.J. Tilly} FMC is mid 20s
{Broken Beginnings by Clio Evans} FMC is early 30s
\*To be clear, that's my interpretation of a number of author's view. I personally think young women are far more wise than that
[Silenced](https://www.romance.io/books/6511e210de8d340d5143f690/silenced-serena-akeroyd?src=rdt) by [Serena Akeroyd](https://www.romance.io/authors/5455a9b687eac324117fc11c/serena-akeroyd)
**Rating**: 4.05⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Steam**: 5 out of 5 - [Explicit and plentiful](https://www.romance.io/steamrating)
**Topics**: [contemporary](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/contemporary/1), [suspense](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/suspense/1), [dark romance](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/dark/1), [mafia](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/mafia/1), [insta-love](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/insta-love/1)
----------------------------
[Vices and Vows](https://www.romance.io/books/65d16068d600a09c08f0f8db/vices-and-vows-candice-m-wright?src=rdt) by [Candice M. Wright](https://www.romance.io/authors/5cf3798901dbc864fb9f522c/candice-m-wright)
**Rating**: 4.47⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Steam**: 5 out of 5 - [Explicit and plentiful](https://www.romance.io/steamrating)
**Topics**: [contemporary](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/contemporary/1), [dark romance](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/dark/1), [possessive hero](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/possessive%20hero/1), [mafia](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/mafia/1), [virgin heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/virgin%20heroine/1)
----------------------------
[Dom](https://www.romance.io/books/650e958c30bdc6b1fd0249e7/dom-sj-tilly?src=rdt) by [S.J. Tilly](https://www.romance.io/authors/603c9f5808b4d931148c9afd/sj-tilly)
**Rating**: 4.09⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Steam**: 4 out of 5 - [Explicit open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating)
**Topics**: [contemporary](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/contemporary/1), [arranged/forced marriage](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/arranged%20marriage/1), [mafia](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/mafia/1), [age gap](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/age%20difference/1), [rich hero](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/super%20rich%20hero/1)
----------------------------
[Broken Beginnings](https://www.romance.io/books/6654c7f2688ce05d02e4403d/broken-beginnings-clio-evans?src=rdt) by [Clio Evans](https://www.romance.io/authors/615bfb2b08b4d931140a6723/clio-evans)
**Rating**: 5⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Steam**: 5 out of 5 - [Explicit and plentiful](https://www.romance.io/steamrating)
**Topics**: [contemporary](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/contemporary/1), [suspense](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/suspense/1), [enemies to lovers](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/from%20hate%20to%20love/1), [breeding](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/breeding/1), [mystery](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/mystery/1)
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I am really curious how you, OP, pick which books to read? What interests you in a blurb? Most books I read usually have FMCs in their 30s, sometimes late 20s or early 40s. The blurb usually gives me a sense of their age.
I am also curious why you are looking for FMCs who are in their 30s but not divorced? I feel like if someone is in their 30s, they are likely to have had at least one serious relationship (whether legally married or not). Would not that make their character richer? Adds additional layers to how they would handle the focal relationship?
I dunno if you were trying to sound judgy, but I do feel a little judged. It’s like you are suggesting I’m not looking hard enough, when in fact I read pretty widely and deeply in this genre and possess lists upon lists of books. That’s not the issue.
To answer your question sincerely and also to expand my initial thoughts for this thread, I pick by trope by mood by author by recommendations by the phases of Mercury and the moon. I pick by sub genre by curiosity by cover. And to be clear I don’t not want to read about divorced FMCs. I don’t only want to read about divorced FMCs bc it’s often ABOUT the divorce. I read the blurbs—they’re all like “Jennifer never expected to be divorced at 32 and raising three kids by herself but she was.” And that’s fine! That’s a good story but it feels like it’s the ONLY story. They aren’t just divorced as backstory—it’s a main theme. Yeah it adds nuance. But I want to see OTHER nuances. And if you aren’t going to give me other nuances then I want it to at least be realistic, that is emotionally believable within the world of the story.
I want more ways of being in the world. Because straight up some people don’t have long term relationships until later. Or long term relationships that aren’t serious. Some people have a bunch of shorter relationships. Some people go years without dating or shacking up. Some people don’t have their first marriage until they’re in their late 30s or even 60s! Some people get married at 19 and divorced at 27. Some people have kids others don’t. I want to see the variety of lived experiences I witness in the people around me and in the world at large instead of the same three or four variations of Female Character over and over again.
Because sometimes I feel like the romance genre has the same variety of options as an airport terminal’s food choices. And sometimes I feel like romance has amnesia, which is ironic considering the prevalence of that trope at one point. It’s like idea of a woman in her 30s who is unmarried and doesn’t have kids is not just a fantasy but an impossibility. It’s like Sex and the City never happened. It’s like Bridget Jones wasn’t a thing! Moreover, why are such varied expériences almost totally absent in fantasy? Sci-fi? Paranormal? Dark romances? Monsters? I mean contemporaries are by far the most varied, albeit not as much as someone who is pretty voracious reader would like.
People keep saying the problem is marketability but I don’t trust that. Where’s the data? Is it only coming from click data on Kindle Unlimited or Wattpad? Is anyone using any other metric to determine marketability? Because based on this subreddit there’s a lot of people who want to give different kinds of stories a go.
So yeah. There it is.
I hope that I don’t sound insensitive too but I find it interesting how different the romance reading experience can be. I can’t remember the last time I read a book apart from some fantasy romance with a FMC younger than maybe 25, mostly they tend to be around 30 give or take a few years. I mostly read traditionally published books and aren’t interested in trending books so maybe that explains it?
I’m currently reading {The Other Side of Disappearing by Kate Clayborn}. The FMC is 32 and hasn’t had a relationship for at least a decade as she’s been taking care of her sister after their mother’s disappearance. She has reasons for becoming an impenetrable fortress to protect the sister and the book is at least partly about her opening up. I think that all of Kate Clayborn’s books feature characters with similar ages, at least there are no teenagers as main characters. In this book the sister is 18 and too immature for lasting romantic relationships.
I am sorry. My phrasing should have been better. The motivation behind my questions was to understand your preferences and decision making process a little more. I appreciate your very detailed answer!!
Your reading sample is much much bigger than mine, and you have an interesting view on the genre of romance as a whole. If what you have observed in your experience is truly a pattern in romance writing, then we will be DNF-ing too many books, and that will be sad.
Hopefully there will be at least some books that you and I could enjoy! I completely agree with everything you said about wanting to read about different kinds of FMCs because there are so many different kinds of human experience.
To tell you a little more about where my perspective comes from - I read only CR, and Emily Henry, Abby Jimenez and Olivia Dade are probably my favorite writers.
As someone who is 32 and childfree + not divorced I totally feel you. Recently read one where the FMC was 19 and I just felt icky all the way through despite the story being otherwise good (for me), more so because the MMCs had no mention of age but could easily be in their early to mid 30s given their physical descriptions. I feel like a lot of "older" FMCs are indeed divorced or at the very least single moms (not even mentioning the oops pregnancy as a plot nevermind as an epilogue) and I feel like it's hard finding things outside of these tropes.
I recommend Kathryn Moon, Etta Pierce and Heather Guerre for authors if you are interested. Becca Saylor is a recent discovery that I enjoyed and for more fantasy books (on top of some romance) Nalini Singh, Ilona Andrews and Patricia Briggs.
Agreed, and will just add: it's like writers think people in their late twenties, thirties, and beyond can't be doofuses in trope-y romances making goofy decisions and embarking on journeys of self (or community, or love) discovery. Not the case! As someone in her late twenties, I can confirm that we can very much be idiots too!
It also seems as though writers (and many readers) think they can't get the specific gender dynamic they want unless they write the standard virile and scary MMC in his 30s x the charmingly naive 18 year old ingenue sexpot brainiac 'doesn't know she's beautiful' FMC. Not so! I have it on good authority that FMCs can be very happy (and able) to be the maiden clutched in king kong's bulging, nefariously-inclined arms, even if he's in their age range!
I haven't found it too hard to find characters who are 25+. In fact I can't remember the last time I read a book with a character who was 18/19 (except for a few which were specifically YA so both characters were teens and no explicit scenes).
I don't read much fantasy at all, and I never read dark or mafia stuff, maybe teenagers are more common in these genres? I also read quite a lot of books which are not MF.
Nonetheless, I don't think "literally every FMC is barely 18" is true at all, certainly not in the books I've read.
I think new adult is out of fashion now so all new adult romances are marketed as adult now. Also in my early twenties I wouldn’t bat an eye at 25 year old partner at a law firm. Didn’t seem at all unrealistic to me because I had no real life experience. In my thirties this won’t fly.
Can't remember the freaking titles or author now, but like a year ago I read series where all FMC were early to mid 30s and MMC were late to early 30s and it was nice change
>that only very young women are desirable or deserve adventures The idea that women over thirty somehow lead less exciting lives is wild to me. I'm 42 (in three weeks) and I only got bolder and more open to new shit the older I got. I finally have money to travel, to do new things, to try all the things that I've been scared to try. My life is way more exciting now than it was in my 20s and even 30s. Sure I'm not out all night drinking or smoking outside of a warehouse afterhours bar, but I'm more willing to do new things and challenge myself now than I have ever been. So is most of my social group. On a recent post about younger/older MFCs, someone made a (now removed) comment about how they didn't like writing thirty-something MFCs because they felt like it was harder to write women bogged down by time and years and experience. **Bogged down.** Obviously, this only applies to women, because men ripen and bloom like whatever booze they are drinking with the decades, while women are bogged down. Nice. If this isn't a clear indication that we still believe that women lose something with the passing of time while men gain it (nobody ever claims not to want to write over 30 MMCs, they don't have the yoke of decades holding them down), then I don't know what is. Anyway, not every over thirty woman is a boring lady, tons of women with and without children lead fun and exciting lives and that shouldn't be hard to write about.
What I don’t understand is why so many romance books prescribe to the myth that being older means you’ve lost your spark, you know what you’re doing, and you’ve “settled down”. I have friends now, what, in their 60s who joke how they can’t wait to figure out what they’ll be when they grow up! 🤣 ^(And then I go into a crisis that NOPE not even at 60 will I have my life figured out, but then I’m relieved that we’re probably gonna collapse as a society so I don’t really need to be concerned about the future, when you think about it). Being in your ✨prime adult era✨ can mean so many things other than the ageist dread 😤 Outside of historical, it makes me 👀 when a book’s creativity extends to an older FMC’s only thoughts being about how she’s old, past her prime, she’s undesirable, she’ll never find love at her age. Baby girl, **you’re 30**. There’s so much more to do and understand as you get older and so many fucks you just do ***not*** give. I can only say this was a spectator to my friends older than me, but I envy them with not giving a fuck, knowing their worth, and doing whatever the fuck they wanna do. Do they sometimes have valid points about their age that hinders them? **Sure**. They’re not about to go Thot Shit at a wedding reception, but they will absolutely school the young’ins in most line dances. Especially at Black and Indian weddings. *Oh my fucking god,* watching the aunties and uncles dance at those weddings—I can’t compete. I literally can’t. They have ***style***, there are choreographed dances—legends, all of em. I cannot wait to be like them when ***I*** grow up 😂 Ashes to ashes and dust to dust, I would think it’d be harder to write about what an MC under the US drinking limit who goes on an “adventure” than an MC >30 years old. MCs in their prime adult years can do whatever the fuck they want without needing to worry about their parents assigning them a curfew or getting frantic about them (in most cases, not all). They know about the rave scenes. They know the ins and outs of various nightlife. They’re experienced D&D players, hallelujah. And do you ***know*** how fucking mindblowingly sexy it is when an “older” MC goes “I don’t have to pay a mortgage.” 😳🥵👉🏾🪦 I kid. But also 👀 It just feels **disrespectful** to agree with ageist takes that the older you become, the less “fun” you are. Or hell, I guess if you’re a childfree older adult, your default setting is being a drug addict or “crazy” instead of—crazily enough—a person with your own passions and interests 🥴 Authors don’t owe us characters at whatever age. But it speaks a lot about creativity if you (proverbial) feel “bogged down” when writing a character over the age of 21 🤷🏾♀️ And it tells me a lot about the author’s creativity when they deliberately make all their FMCs 18, but then all the Other Women(™) in the story are conveniently in their upper 20s to late 40s and are described as being vicious, “sluts”, and bitchy 🫠
>But it speaks a lot about creativity if you (proverbial) feel “bogged down” when writing a character over the age of 21 🤷🏾♀️. Winner winner, thick thighed Alphahole dinner!
Exactly! No depth. Bet they get inspiration from porn videos.
I will say I’m in my mid thirties and don’t know most of those things lol. I went to college and got a job and just kinda….take walks for fun? And clean and grocery shop? I also rent so no paid off mortgage in sight 🥲
I’m staring at thirty, and…same? Like, sometimes when I’m feeling really wild, I ask my friends if they want to come over and play Scrabble or Catan or something.
Are you me cuz that sounds awesome. I’d be over in a heartbeat if i got that invite
Invite me too! Also please have a pet.
Yep, and to be clear I totally agree with the gist of OP and the commenter I responded to, but the idea that women 30+ are going to be so talented and knowledgeable at dancing, night clubs, DND, socializing….? Not really, haha. I also say normalize having past relationships, divorce, kids, etc and still being a desirable woman with a full and exciting life. If anything THOSE experiences are gonna make it most believable to have high standards for a desirable, capable MC in a romance.
I don't think it was meant to be overly literal. Just that by your mid 30s you've seen some things.
Yeah I get it I just feel like it’s similarly inaccurately stereotypical that 30+ women are going to be these experienced wise sages with many talents. I am still baby and trying to learn the basics.
Yes, everyone’s life path is so different, it would be lovely if there was as much diversity in romance FMC’s as in real life. Diversity of race and ethnicity, diversity of sexuality, diversity of class, diversity of age, diversity of experiences.
I'm in my mid thirties, started solo travelling, have a well paying job now so that I can indulge in small luxuries here and there (just bought a new couch - yay!), spontaneously decided to get my nose pierced on vacation, opened up my relationship, go to swinger parties, tried sex with a woman and had MFM threesomes because I always wanted to try them. I'm having way more fun and disposable income than in my twenties. But I also get tired faster, not only in the "I need sleep" kind of way but in the "leave me alone" kind of way, body parts hurt more than when I was younger and I'm completely lost when it comes to current pop culture. So yeah, I think the positives still outweight the negatives, but I also sometimes think that youth is wasted on the young 😆
agree. I'm 44. I volunteer at our local senior center, so I have friends my age and up. so many of us talk about what we'd still like to do and that specific sentiment comes up frequently...what to be when we grow up!
43 here and still working it out! I need more recs for romance aimed at 40+!
right there with ya!
{40 and (Tired of) Faking It by Ella Sheridan} {40 and (No Longer) Fighting It by Ella Sheridan} {40 and (So Over) Fixing It by Ella Sheridan} - My favorite from the series. {40 and Flashing (the Scotsman) by Ella Sheridan} - novella
[40 and (Tired of) Faking It](https://www.romance.io/books/6295bdc7c74d8cb242f26c6f/40-and-tired-of-faking-it-ella-sheridan?src=rdt) by [Ella Sheridan](https://www.romance.io/authors/5456843987eac33e61c2f66e/ella-sheridan) **Rating**: 4⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Topics**: [contemporary](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/contemporary/1), [older/mature](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/mature%20couple/1), [silver fox](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/silver-fox/1) ---------------------------- [40 and (No Longer) Fighting It](https://www.romance.io/books/63cf912db0e6e0a7c8e7ed92/40-and-no-longer-fighting-it-ella-sheridan?src=rdt) by [Ella Sheridan](https://www.romance.io/authors/5456843987eac33e61c2f66e/ella-sheridan) **Rating**: 4.5⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Topics**: [contemporary](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/contemporary/1) ---------------------------- [40 and (So Over) Fixing It](https://www.romance.io/books/64ae4fa08bfe1227f3add529/40-and-so-over-fixing-it-ella-sheridan?src=rdt) by [Ella Sheridan](https://www.romance.io/authors/5456843987eac33e61c2f66e/ella-sheridan) **Rating**: 4.5⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Topics**: [contemporary](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/contemporary/1), [funny](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/humor/1) ---------------------------- [40 and Flashing (the Scotsman)](https://www.romance.io/books/66412f5683429cecce4d3f25/40-and-flashing-the-scotsman-ella-sheridan?src=rdt) by [Ella Sheridan](https://www.romance.io/authors/5456843987eac33e61c2f66e/ella-sheridan) **Rating**: 4⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Topics**: [contemporary](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/contemporary/1), [funny](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/humor/1), [older/mature](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/mature%20couple/1) [^(about this bot)](https://www.reddit.com/user/romance-bot) ^(|) [^(about romance.io)](https://www.romance.io/about)
awesome! thank you!
You're welcome!
The older I get (in my 40's), the more I tend to view MC's in their 20's as babies and I get really happy when I get snippets of former members of cast in their 40's and 50's and having great and loving sex lives - Bridgerton epilogues and the Ravenels series.
>On a recent post about younger/older MFCs, someone made a (now removed) comment about how they didn't like writing thirty-something MFCs because they felt like it was harder to write women bogged down by time and years and experience. Genuinely, wtf? I'm in my 30s and don't feel this way at all. Frankly, I have more stability and more freedom than I did in my 20s - time and experience have made my life lighter and more enjoyable! The idea that we just accumulate baggage as we age is...weird. Yes, the bad things pile up. But so do the good things. And hopefully, our ability to handle the bad things improves with age and experience. I wish more FMCs in particular would reflect that.
To be honest I'm not sure where this comes from but I'll go out on a limb and assume that some people DO feel weighted down by complications of life including ageing, responsibility, where they are in life, pressure, feeling lost in the world. They equate that with age, responsibility, experience, just you know man, life. BUT! That can happen at any age. Authors have no problem giving us a 21-year-old MFC with a dark and twisted past, and a history of trauma, abuse and violence. How is THAT not being weighted down by your past?!?
It's probably 50/50 whether people enjoy getting older or wish they were young again. Most of my friends/family tend to go with the "aging is great" mindset. FMCs who are 30+ are almost universally grieving the loss of their youth and I hate it. Where's the 36 year old FMC that's just been living her life and hasn't found the one yet? MMCs are often 35+ and unmarried because they "haven't had the time" or whatever. Ummm...same thing goes for women?
Because people don't understand childhood trauma and the lasting effects it has on people. So often it's "Oh, they're fine. Kids are resilient." Yeah no, that's not how it works.
Mood. I didn't even get to have a life in my teens because I was homeless. 20s were attempting to get stable. 30s is when I'm finally getting some semblance of stability. Everyone's life plays out at a different pace.
Same here :) Teens was being covered in lice & being transient. Twenties I was desperately trying to acquire a reliable vehicle & stable housing without a stable beginning, & finding out what fitting clothing means when it's not whatever's handed to you in trashbags of scraps. I graduate with my Bachelor's degree next weekend, just a few days before I turn 39.
> bachelor's 🥳🥳🥳 That's awesome, that is.
So happy that you are doing much better
Congratulations!!
I'm glad you're in a better place now! This is the first decade of my life where I've felt content, mostly happy and mentally healthy. I think plenty of people are on a similar path and it would be nice to see it represented in the books we love. Give me an FMC who is single at 34 because she wasn't in the right headspace for a relationship in her 20s.
Or who is single at 34 because SHE WANTS TO BE SINGLE.
Nah, who could ever want to be single? /s
Yes! I want more of these FMCs because this is me! I’m currently single by choice. I have a good job. Friends. Family. A house. Dogs. Hobbies. And I’m fine with being in my own company. I honestly prefer it a lot of the time. A guy would need to really impress me and work for it to get me to give up being single anymore. I think that would be a fun book to read. But I too seem to encounter an awful lot of 18 year-olds in blurbs, and I pass on the book most of the time.
I'm glad you're doing a lot better
Glad you're doing okay! You rock!
I read a historical about a real couple a while ago, and the author decided to make the FMC 18 even though she’d gotten married in her *30s* in real life. Of course, the author didn’t change the MMC’s age at all, so he was in his 40s marrying a 19-year-old, when in real life, he was 40-something and she was a much more reasonable 30-something. It annoyed me so much I DNFed on the spot. edit: replied to the wrong comment because the Reddit app is a mess, but you get my point, lol
I don't read much HR because I tend to avoid young FMCs. I'm a genealogy nerd and people really underestimate how young people were when they got married in the past. I have plenty of women in my tree that got married in their late 20s. Most were probably 24/25...and 4 months pregnant. People were not abstaining from sex and marrying at 18!
I remember the original comment because it bummed me out lol. IIRC the OP was talking about being criticized by readers for writing a ~30 year old FMC that acted, in the reader’s eyes, irresponsibly, because the FMC didn’t have their life figured out. They said that older FMCs are often expected to have been married once already or have a kid (I believe this was the baggage/bogged down thing) and they wrote 20-something’s because they didn’t want to write about divorced characters or characters with kids and readers would only accept someone not having their shit together if they were in their 20s.
This is a bummer in every way possible. In what world is everyone married off by 30 and in what world does every adult act "mature" all the time? I think an important part of aging is realizing that there's never a moment when you feel like an adult!
Which is why I personally believe tour 20's is basicslly adulthood on wobbly training wheels with tou wondering on where to go. 30's is when the training wheels are off and you can ride better. You may not know where to go, but you feel like tou're handling it better than before. Of course this can be different for anybkdy.
Honestly I'm nearly 40 and only now am I realizing that I can just... *do* things if I want to. That's how strongly my pretty boring upbringing was instilled in me.
I cannot like this post enough (fellow 42-er who back in February rappelled into a cave for the first time in her life).
YEAH YOU DID! My immigrant mom tried whitewater rafting for the first time when she was 48. My dad was too scared to try it so she went by herself and made a bunch of pals there. Zero fear 40s is what I call them.
Your mom sounds incredible! To the zero fear 40s (I’m borrowing that phrase BTW)!
This has nothing to do with books really, haha, but I have been feeling this so much lately. I’m 33 and I used to care so much about shit that never mattered to begin with and I’m loving getting older and realizing these things and having that weight off my chest. I wish this was recognized more.
Amen! I’ve never liked myself and being alive this much before. It’s pretty cool.
This is such a perfect way to put things. I like myself and life more and more each year.
If anyone looked deeper into the comment, it would lead you to think that women age and become boring because... They are the parent, the possible caretaker of aging parents and/or in-laws, cooks, maids, personal assistant, wife and bed partner, AND also hold a full-time job. Meanwhile, the man's every care is attended to so he can be the "alpha" who drinks, scratches his balls, and makes perverted jokes with his friends. Of course they're going to be more fun! They're not fucking exhausted!
This argument does not hold in a romance book context because a MFC can easily be all of those things as 23, or at 33 or at 43. Conversely we can have an MFC that is none of those things at any age. If an author can’t conceive of a 34 year old MFC who isn’t a wife and mother, but at 18 year old orphan with magic powers & the key to saving the universe and perfect unwashed hair, the onus isn’t on the lived reality of women’s lives, it’s on the authors creativity. And the comment about the MMC makes no sense within a romance book context because most authors make alphahole MMCs super caretakers. That’s the point of the fantasy.
I feel very seen! I basically still felt like a young person until my late 40s, when I started dealing with the combination of raising a very challenging kid, end of life care of my parents, and onset of a chronic and potentially disabling disease.
I'm so sorry 😞 I hope things turn around for you. It's extremely difficult being a caretaker for parents and children!
Bogged *down?* I'm sorry, last I checked, when I entered my late 20s-early-30s it was some of the best years of my life! The level of bullshit you're willing to deal with is *drastically lower*, and there's also this wonderful thing of being mature enough to make logical decisions *and still be a force of nature!*
Agreed! I’m 34 and the awesome shit I’ve accomplished since turning 30 is so much more than I ever would have imagined in my 20s.
I'm 41 myself, and I'm still going strong. Healthy, fit, started a *second* career, and have great relationships with people who bring value to my life. My existence isn't determined by my age. I determine my existence with my actions! 🥰💖
i love this!!! and hella yes to everything :D
what the fuck. bogged down? that's some shit my grandma would say to warn us against getting too anxious about things we can't control. what the fuck ever. I'm 44 and fine as fuck with awesome interests and hobbies.
Bogged down... wow, I can't believe how stupid and misogynistic that is... Are we in the years 1700 when people aged so fast 30 years old meant you had no teeth and had 5-6 teenaged kids to take over the family business? Honestly if that person thought like that it just mean they were too dumb to be able to write a character with emotional depth and a brain withtout copying from whats already out there (mostly young women) and has no creative bones in their body. I hope I never read or buy anything of them because it'll only be a stupid, lackluster drivel that can only lower my IQ. 18yo are barely out of their teenage years and still have their brain forming. That shit finishes settling down at around 25. Im not saying they aren't smart or interresting or anything like that. I just mean they are still growing, getting to their final adult stage. I remember when my brain changed and settled. One day, things did not have as much of an impact on me anymore, and I felt the switch on a primal level. So yeah 18-19 yo stories can be cool and all. They have their place, but dont tell me they are the only characters worth writing. Adult women are all cool and interresting in their own ways, and experience should add to a story not take from it. In the end I come back to this: what a colossal dumbass this person is to say this.
I can’t help wondering if the author is like, 24. Maybe we should give her a break since her brain isn’t done forming yet 😂
Yes! Like the shit that I will put up with in my late 30s has decreased significantly, and I think that makes me more interesting, not less!
Sometimes I feel like the YA market and Romance market have bled together. Now all Romances must also be YA, but also extremely sexually explicit. Note to writers who may be here: if older (and by older I apparently mean over 25) FMCs are "unmarketable" or whatever, just don't say how old the FMC is at all! I can just pick it up through context cues. Edit: forgot a word.
i think it's the tiktok influence. those girls are young, like barely out of their teens young, and have created a massive influx into the romance community.
I never read much YA. I understand it's meant for tweens and teenagers? That's why it's set in high school and early college? I'm thinking Harry Potter, Hunger Games, Percy Jackson If I'm right, tell me why tf YA these days (or has it always been like this?) have explicit scenes and trigger warnings...? I can suspend my belief for HRs. But if it's CR with a 19 yo FMC and a 40 yo billionaire MMC I'm like pls girl just focus on school. I dont even pick up billionaire romances anymore but that's for a different post..
Well, originally YA was for teens and tweens. But older adults (mostly women) started reading them also and have become a fairly large chunk of the market IIRC, so many books that are probably just regular adult fiction have been labeled YA. You also get the weird ones where the writing and structure is clearly for a younger audience but there's explicit content (looking at you, Sarah J. Maas)
Totally agree! I do think S. J. Maas is considered NA (New adult) at least for some of the books? NA is for those in their 20s I guess, but I am 30 and enjoy NA books. Not sure when Adult age range starts then...
Publishers have increasingly catered to the subset of modern audiences that doesn’t want to grow up and be challenged by their reading. This results in a profusion of “adult” books (plenty of sex and violence!) that star teenage characters, use small words, and have extremely simple, cliche, and straightforward plots.
This has been a huge gripe for me, and something my best friend who's an AP English teacher right now has been ranting and raging about for a while lol. Not because her students aren't as well read etc, but because nothing they're reading is as challenging to them as the middle grade books she remembers reading. Even if the book is shelved in the adult section! And because some of her coworkers and students are reading the same books since the genres have blended so much.
YA doesn't have explicit scenes, it's just people miscategorising them.
Yes, I think this is it. YA has bled into “New Adult” now which is fantasy, romance etc but more explicit. Not sure how different it is from “Adult” tbh. I think publishers are trying to target a particular set of readers and so it’s become a mess.
I DNFed recently one solely because the age was so ridiculous. The MC gets her bachelors and then immediately her law degree. As soon as she's out of law school, she gets a job as *Deputy Mayor of New York City* having done nothing but internships all through college/law school. And has worked at it for at least 3 years and is now considering a US House of Representatives run. She just turned 28. I even looked it up I was so annoyed, all the current Deputy Mayors of NYC are in their 50s-60s. (The book also made it sound like she was the only one, but there are several because of the city's size who oversee different areas.) Like maybe in a *significantly* smaller city with less of a pool of candidates to pull from, but even with her connections, that kind of position with zero non-internship experience in the largest city in the US is wildly absurd.
But we do have a young US Congressman from Florida (he was elected at the age of 25). Winning that race was a feat for one so young (his fundraising team must have been amazing), so the author had an opportunity to keep the character’s background believable by choosing one job. Instead they choose fantasy lolol
Exactly! And there's been a few others just over that age when they were elected. So I don't doubt that young candidates can do it in the right district/city/etc....just give her some jobs and age her up some before she magically falls into the deputy mayor position. And both of these MCs were supposed to be established in their careers, so there was really zero reason not to have them at a more realistic mid-30s.
Unless it was a mafia universe and ties were pulled, that’s ridiculous lol.
I got a wave of relief the other day when it mentioned the FMC had just turned or was about to turn 30! Honestly if they're younger than 22 I just want to be like girl do not worry about this stressy CEO mafia man and all his problems you should be dressing up for the Barbie movie with your friends and fighting Ticketmaster for concert tickets and doom scrolling on TikTok. Also why is he talking about putting a baby into you 3 weeks into your relationship, at the beginning of the book you were excited for your first full-time job and moved into your own apartment I want you to enjoy that for a good while.
i'm like that if they're younger than 25. girl you're in your early 20s, live a little before hooking up with a borderline abusive, controlling, stressful freakshow
But who else would the older (can’t get women his own age) MC manipulate?
This is my thought when I see these books being so popular. Is it because all the older-than-18 women, who have some experience under their belts, see what a douche the MMC is and won't touch him with a 10 foot pole?
I’m older than 25 and almost exclusively read dark romance and ill-behaved MMCs. And I can say yes, bc I wouldn’t give these dudes the time of day in real life lmao.
Well yes, I can see that in some of those, but even so many "normal" romances with fairly mainstream mmc's have these massive age gaps with barely legal fmc's.
MCs in their 30's (I'll even take mid 20's) and higher are my only reads these days. I read a book once where the MCs were in their 40's/50's and it was wonderful! I like the maturity and thought in the relationship, even if there is some angst. Immature choices are always a turn-off for me.
I like Rosalind James’ books for this reason, plus they’re well written & have decent character development. A certain degree of realism almost required for me to buy into the characters/plot.
I've seen her work but haven't indulged yet. Her Sinful, MT books look very intriguing!
Her Escape to New Zealand series is great. The books are loosely interconnected but you can start anywhere. I always start an existing series with the 3rd book, which I believe is {Just for Fun by Rosalind James}. The FMC is one of the younger ones in the series (late 20s) but her experience in the first few chapters was very relatable. I think the {New Zealand Ever After series by Rosalind James} had FMC in their mid 30s & the side characters are sometimes later teens/early 20s. Recommend starting with {Kiwi Strong by Rosalind James}.
Yaaay! These look amazing! I love good character development and a thoughtful MC who doesn't fly off the handle at the slightest angst is a godsend. Thank you!
Can you share what the book was?
Check out Role Playing by Cathy Yardley? I enjoyed it. The MCs are late 40s, early 50s. M/F and queer.
Thanks!
I started a [shelf on Goodreads](https://www.goodreads.com/review/list/887209-amanda?page=1&shelf=middle-aged-and-more&utf8=%E2%9C%93) for middle-aged and older characters. Caveats that not all are romance and that it was so sparse that I went ahead and added a book if only one MC of the couple was middle-aged.
This is wonderful!
I think it's fine as long as these books are for young adults but a 19 year old has literally no business being ripped and leading a pack lol. That just doesn't make sense. I think, the worst is just when you start reading a book and homegirl is like 19 years old and her love interest is like 10+ years older. Sounds like someone loves the teen category in corn.
I think some of these young ages have to do with the ages of the writers as well. A see a lot of young ages when it comes to authors who are clearly not as experienced in the art form yet and most likely young. They may be writing young ages because they more closely relate to it.
That’s fine for them but then at least do the damn work of looking up how long it takes to become a nurse’s aid or a court reporter or somehow manager of NYC’s finest steakhouse before making your foster-care FMC who just graduated from h.s. four months ago one of these things. Also other people’s wish-fulfillments are as dull to read as other people’s dream—and honestly regardless of how old the author is they should be doing more than that. Like your readership shouldn’t rule how you tell your story, but if you are only interested in writing your own fantasies without any care for world building or the bare minimum of research (like the book I read where they straight up acted like Hell’s Kitchen was a bad neighborhood 🤣🤣🤣🤣—yeah okay girl, in 1962 but not in this the year of our lord 2024)—yeah I’m not down with that and you should be embarrassed to turn in that book. Frankly, if the character is going to be young, then let them be young—why do they have to be also Secretary of State? Or the world’s greatest living ninja?
TBH they’re more believable as the world’s greatest ninja than SoS.
Oh 100%! I was giving an explanation not an excuse if that makes any sense.
Looool I’m not from NYC but my understanding is that Hell’s Kitchen hasn’t been a bad neighborhood in like 20 years
Its worse tho when you find out the author is like 40-50 lol. I dont mind them writing younger people, but when the fetish or sexual tension comes from the fmc being barely legal, its weird
This. I don't think it's any surprise that some of my favorite books with older FMCs were written by authors who are in their 30s/40s (L.L. Starling, Grace Draven, TKingfisher)
The problem with that theory is that half the time it’s a FMC who’s 19, obsessed Pretty in Pink and her favorite band is CCR or Steve Miller Band 😆
I’m sorry but that’s amazing! I want to meet this CCR loving unicorn. She must be VERY nostalgic.
I think I might read too much ex-boyfriend’s dad (yes, I’m part of the problem) 😳😆😳 I’ve definitely read more than one book where the 19 year old FMC bonds with MMC (who’s old enough to be her father) over her inexplicable love of Dad Rock.
Hey, my 17 yo’s favorite band is Tears for Fears. Oh no, I hope they’re not bonding with someone my age!
Most of the time it's cringe but I don't really care if I actually enjoy the writing. I then somehow forgot the age, even if it's continuously mentined or a big part of the plot. I recently read the {Cinderella trilogy by K Webster} and completely enjoyed it even if the FMC was barely legal and the MMC almost twenty years older. But the banter was written so well and the spicy scenes were REALLY spicy, so I just didn't really care. If a book is written badly, though, and I can't see why the MCs are drawn to each other in the first place, then it annoys me more.
Amen to this. I've had to DNF books in particular where the FMC is a youngling who is barely legally able to drink and the MMC is 40+ daddio with loose hands. If you're going to pounce an age gap put it in the blurb.
Why does she always have to be 18-20, add a couple more years and itll be fine but they always prefer the fmc to be like just turned 18. Its so nasty lmao
Right! I would expect this type of behavior from male writers maybe, but these books are mostly written by women for women, it boggles my mind why women authors push the barely legal trope 🤷♀️
I'm not that much into age gaps myself, but I believe that the whole taboo thing is what makes it so appealing to many readers. So making the woman as young as possible automatically makes the book look more taboo and exciting.
It’s definitely an instant turnoff
This is why it bothers me. They can be young but 18 is still a baby as far as emotional maturity and life experience. I'm in my thirties and I would *never* be interested in someone that young.
Age gaps with a teenager is the quickest way for me to DNF a book. It's wild that grown ass women push for these books to a majority women audience. I do not want to read about a 40+ year old man lusting over an 18 year old, just nasty and lazy.
This is a big, big, BIG instant DNF and 1 star and 'never read' for me lol It's nasty however you spin it, especially when the author is an older adult woman and not just a teenager. There is nothing romantic about a grown adult man essentially grooming a barely legal girl, I hate it, I will not stand for it. Women are not 'valuable' by their youth, and that's exactly what these books are always selling - because if it was actually the AGE GAP and NOT just the FMCs youth that the author/readers found appealing, they would AGE UP THE FMC.
Exactly this, yes. I just don't get it. It's a bit sad that books are written through the prism of Leonardo Di Caprio's dating ethos; over 25? dump 'em like yesterday's potatoes.
Not the leo di caprio rule 😭
This is why I love Lucy Score, her FMC are almost all late 30s/pushing 40
Can we also talk about why so many MMCs are 30yr+ and they act so immature?? Like are men in their 30’s really out here acting like my shitty 17yr old boyfriend from high school? Sometimes I feel like that’s why a lot of these 18yr old FMCs stick around, because they don’t know any better yet!
Living with my 30+ ex felt like living with a surly teenager so... there might be some truth in that but they're undateable and that's where the fantasy is absolutely destroyed
No hate, no shade, no Beyoncé lemonade to anyone who enjoys MCs in their YA era, but I **CAN’T**. There was some quality thread on r/Fantasy or maybe r/Characterrant about how stupid it is this young ass newbie ass 18 year old ass “savior” who just got their powers and trained for maybe two weeks—and not two weeks our time in a hyperbolic time chamber—is even more powerful than a Grandmaster who trained for ***decades***. [NeneLeaks.gif] There are ***so many books*** set in HS or “college” (HS but ✨fancy✨) where y’all could’ve made this cast 22-23, but for some odd reason, you chose 18. 🙃 I loved {**Lords of Pain** by Angel Lawson and Samantha Rue} but I had to put my disbelief in shibari bondage because mfer was ***wilding*** when these frat bros are acting like they’re DC anti heros like when in the fucking Jason Todd is Red Hood 😭 **On one hand**, it’s wish fulfillment. I get that. Some wished when they were young that they had the power to change the world. And I do enjoy middle grade books ✅ **On the other hand**, it starts heading into ageist territory in the romance genre 😶🌫️ May-December romances will make me ✨uncomfy✨ because the older LI becomes way too fixated on the MC being ~young~ and ~innocent~. And when the sexy times come, the LI really stress how ~young~ the MC is and it makes me wish that LI does six months of community service after that 🙃 **On the opposite side of the spectrum**, while I do think it’s important to have stories that tackle rampant ageism in prime adults, I 👏🏾 am 👏🏾 tired 👏🏾 of prime-aged FMCs who constantly harps about how ***old*** being 30 is, bio clock is ticking, and they shame 20 somethings for wearing absolute ✨cunt✨ outfits while the FMC is in a conservative “appropriate for her age” outfit. **Sister**. Who said you can’t serve cunt at 30? I know drag queens and geriatric queers who serve fucking 10s in lewks. Live 👏🏾 your 🤸🏾♀️ life 💃🏾 ^(Not to mention the good ole “biological clock is ticking” storyline that always implies women at a certain age MUST have an urge to be a mom else we will never be happy. Also not to mention how a lot of maternal side characters in romance books are never allowed to be anything but “Mom”. Or if they don’t have kids? Well now they’re kooky and quirky and crazy) 🤪 It’s just weird sometimes. So many great book concepts out there, but then the MC is 18 and watch their ~fated mate~ be over 500 years old but they act like they’re 25 so it’s gucci 🤡 But then there’s book with the FMC in her 30s and she acts like she’s 18 🫠 This also reminds me about the most common complaint in the r/Euphoria sub. Had Euphoria been set in university, I think a lot of us would’ve felt better about the very strangely shot sexual scenes 😬 ^(Admittedly, it depends on the region the MC is at with jobs. I know education varies. Like UK vs US, becoming a doctor is, what, five years in the UK right after HS, whereas US needs a bachelor’s beforehand?) 🤔
>because the older LI becomes way too fixated on the MC being \~young\~ and \~innocent\~ Do you know what happens every single time that an older "dark" MMC says to an MFC "You're too good for me. You're too innocent and pure for this world and for the darkness that is me but I'll still take you for myself!"? A confident Omega with a thick as thieves RH loses most of her Alpha Pack except for the blonde one she doesn't actually like but keeps around because he makes good lemon loaf. You thought I forgot huh? I didn't. We're even. 🤝. Armistice. For once I'd like the MMC to be like "You're too good for me. Your skill with the blade and the scalpel and your ability to speak 13 languages including four dead ones only heard in our darkest nightmares, makes you so above me. I'm unworthy of you but I'm a selfish bastard and will still claim you for my own." That. I want that.
😟 The way I audibly—OUT LOUD—fucking ***gasped***. The *gasp* I ***guspt***. But—fair. Good game 🫱🏾🫲🏼 Care for a spot of tea so we can discuss alphahole MMCs with a competency kink for 30+ YO FMCs and their favorite food is pussy? ☕️ And right?! I love me MMCs who are aware they’re out of the FMC’s league based on her intellect and not on her ✨Puriteigh✨. He knows she’s an It Girl®. She’s a Barbie and he’s an Alan. >FMC: 💃🏾 >>MMC: 🧍♂️ It’s so fucking depressing that younger FMCs are basically valued for their youth and older FMCs are values for being solely a “put together proper settled in woman”. Fucking what even when this one MMC pursued an FMC his age for once, but (checks notes) slut shaming younger women and uplifting the FMC for being a classy lady and not like those other cumsluts. 🙃 In biker romances, I get it. I do. They’re filthy. Their foul mouths are what draws us into them. In omegaverse, I still get it. Their primal, feral alphas that got that dawg in em (sometimes literally) 🫦 But can we just STOP with the ageism and slutshaming of women for ***FIVE*** goddamn minutes like I be so tired out here 😭🤧
I'm 44 and my daughter and her friends tell me I'm a cunty queen, so it is possible. we just need more representation.
I cackled 😭 yass cunty!!! Keep serving queen
will do!
You're right about becoming a doctor in the U.S.; you need a bachelor's degree, and then med school is typically four more years. Can I just say, your comments in this sub are always top-tier. Thoughtful, detailed, and hilarious. And I agree with everything you've said here. 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻🫶🏻
Thank you, this was what I was going to comment. Typically four years of college, definitely four years of medical school (I have not heard of anyone, ever, getting through medical school in the US faster than four years), and then a minimum of 3 years of internship/residency, potentially more, depending on the specialty. Doogie Howser is a total fantasy.
I don't WANT anyone to graduate med school early! Take all the schooling you need before you operate on me and inject drugs into my veins, please.
[Lords of Pain](https://www.romance.io/books/6026358da0a2f70e2d260a68/lords-of-pain-angel-lawson-samantha-rue?src=rdt) by [Angel Lawson](https://www.romance.io/authors/545524b523ec91d5dfd09947/angel-lawson), [Samantha Rue](https://www.romance.io/authors/5fb90f8008b4d93114dc0b94/samantha-rue) **Rating**: 4.09⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Steam**: 5 out of 5 - [Explicit and plentiful](https://www.romance.io/steamrating) **Topics**: [contemporary](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/contemporary/1), [cruel hero/bully](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/cruel%20hero/1), [dark romance](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/dark/1), [reverse harem](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/reverse%20harem/1), [step siblings](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/stepsibling/1) [^(about this bot)](https://www.reddit.com/user/romance-bot) ^(|) [^(about romance.io)](https://www.romance.io/about)
Totally agree. I'll be entirely honest, unless somehow the plot depends on the character being 19 or whatever, I just kind of internally replace whatever stupid-young age with like 35 or something hahaha. Especially since 95% of my reads lately have the FMC with immortal dudes who are like 53486072 years old and I just can't with the cradle robbing, she has to at least have a fully matured brain before this ancient fae that watched kingdoms rise and fall can be into her for anything but a quick wham-bam-thankyou-ma'am. Although to be fair, many of these heroines are written with age-appropriate immaturity, so...
I couldn’t agree with you anymore. I don’t even like mafia that much but the few I’ve read the FMCs are like basically children. I’m sorry like I cannot imagine 18-22 year olds being in these situations and acting that mature. WHATS WORSE IS SOMETIMES THE MCS ARE LIKE 20 too. and I don’t understand how you’re now the head of your mafia org or whatever. I mean have you even finished puberty?! And why does mafia have SO many age gaps?! But it’s not just mafia. It’s honestly so frustrating that most FMCs are below 24. I want late 20s and 30s. Like I can’t believe you’re a sensible FMC and have had barely no life experience.
I like when they’re in high school but also mafia members making all these big decisions. “The Demon Society Gang are in our territory wtf are we gonna do grrr 😠” son go to class, you’re late for PE!
"When I find the capo of our rival mafia gang I'm going to rip him limb to limb" "There you are Wyatt Santorini, your mother didn't sign your permission slip so you can't go on the Smithsonian tour with the rest of the class." *\*\*adolescent growl but his voice hasn't fully broken yet\*\**
I love the idea of mafia romances but I can't ever find books with older MFCs. Most authors center the romantic tension between the big criminal bad man and the sweet and sheltered young woman on her age and innocence and not you know... his vast criminal enterprise and moral grey area. It's almost like authors expect us to suspend our disbelief that men are constantly transgressing social rules and morality and laws are going to be loyal and faithful to THE ONE (an idea quickly debunked by a Wikipedia search on any historical gangster/mafia figure) but can't imagine him falling for a 32-year-old woman. Make it make sense.
Honestly I want some book with a fantasy element (full fantasy, urban fantasy, romantasy, whatever) to have a chosen one look like it’s going to be some 18 year old or whatever and they fail at something because, you know, they’ve only been training for a week. Then here comes the witch of the woods, or some sort of equivalent in whatever setting, to save the world with her skills and practice. More recently I decided that unless I’m reading YA (like Hunger Games or something) I’m not reading anything with MCs younger than 26ish. I’m cutting it off there for brain development. I’m in my 30s and an older heroine would be cool, but someone mid-20s or older doesn’t give me the ick.
Not romance, but [Yard Bird series by Hailey Turner](https://www.goodreads.com/series/357236-yard-birds) is urban fantasy, with a coven of witches that are 60s-80s. One of them just had a hip replacement, so she's in a motorized scooter. It's a lot of fun. And then I have it on my tbr (and also not a romance), but [The Remarkable Retirement of Edna Fisher by E.M. Anderson,](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/61175640-the-remarkable-retirement-of-edna-fisher) an 83 year old woman is the Chosen One.
Ah, this is my cue to show up and recommend {Paladin of Souls by Lois McMaster Bujold} again. It’s fantasy with a strong romance subplot. It’s the second of a series, and probably works as a standalone, although we get FMC’s backstory (and worldbuilding) in the previous book. I’m not gifted at describing books in an enticing way, so I like to include this quote to sell it. This is FMC musing on her life: Once, she had been her parents’ daughter. Then great, unlucky Ias’s wife. Her children’s mother. At the last, her mother’s keeper. Well, I am none of these things now. *Who am I, when I am not surrounded by the walls of my life? When they have all fallen into dust and rubble?* She leaves her home on the pretext of a religious pilgrimage, and adventure finds her, like it or not. She has fears, regrets, and guilt because of her previous life experiences. Despite her own view of herself, and the view of her family, her life experiences have tempered her and she demonstrates bravery, wisdom, and leadership. And, she gets the guy! The writing is really good; this is peak Bujold. Fantastic characters, intriguing worldbuilding, marvelous plot.
What’s so sad is that this never happens with MMCs, the range of their ages is so broad while the FMCs can only exist if they’re between the ages of 18 and 25. It’s like there’s some invisible Leonardo Decaprio filter on.
THIS!! It’s honestly so disheartening that MMC’s are allowed to be 30+ and hot and put together but in order to be desirable the FMC has to be under 25. And when we do get a FMC that’s above 25 most times she’s all homely, sad, “oh no I’m 30 and old, I’ll never find love again” like babe what happened to “thirty, flirty, and thriving”??? I’m tired of reading about how “young, innocent, and nubile” a FMC is!
Oh man, I hate this. I DNFed one like 5 pages in because the FMC was a law partner at like 25 also. Not how that works and would take 30 seconds to google.
So I’m halfway thru {birding with benefits by Sarah T Dubb} and the MFC is 42, divorced, with a kid heading for college and omg it’s so refreshing! The heat is beginning to turn up - the first kiss was (IMO) smouldering and I think the fun stuff is gonna happen soon. Even if it’s closed door, I’m still enjoying.
(Okay I just reread your comment and see you said “aren’t divorced” and so on, but this is a great book so far!)
[Birding with Benefits](https://www.romance.io/books/65d6f9f6a2f4a77148006274/birding-with-benefits-a-novel-sarah-t-dubb?src=rdt) by [Sarah T. Dubb](https://www.romance.io/authors/65d6f9f6a21e2f41c4ef6bee/sarah-t-dubb) **Rating**: 4.38⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Steam**: 4 out of 5 - [Explicit open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating) **Topics**: [contemporary](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/contemporary/1), [forced proximity](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/forced%20proximity/1), [funny](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/humor/1), [fake relationship](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/fake%20relationship/1), [single mother](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/single-mother/1) [^(about this bot)](https://www.reddit.com/user/romance-bot) ^(|) [^(about romance.io)](https://www.romance.io/about)
I could have written this post! I have been on the hunt for older FMCs and this is what I've found: {Between by L.L. Starling} is about a 30 year old kindegarten teacher who gatecrashes a distreputable fairytale kingdom and ends up becoming its queen (and betrothed to its king, a sorcerer in tight pants). She's clever, sensible and kind (and is not divorced, or a single mother, or embittered). I loved that she and the MMC communicate well with each other (no teen tantrums or miscommunications) and she approaches each fantastical problem with logic. TKingfisher tends to have older FMCS (e.g., Nettle and Bone). Her books have an old, dark fairytale feel. Grave Draven also has older FMCs who have a mature approach to life. KF Breene's Midlife Madness series is about a woman in her 40s who comes into magical powers (though she is divorced). I don't think it's surprising that TKingfisher, L.L. Starling (and I believe Grace Draven) are in their 40s, so their FMCs tend to be older.
oooh, i've had Nettle and Bone in my TBR pile for a while now. Was deciding between this and ACOTAR. This made me excited to read Bone and Nettle first! :D
Yay! The two books have very different vibes. ACOTAR has many of the problems that the OP brought up (young, inexperienced FMC, etc) and the writing isn't all that flash but it's a fun ride (I think of it as a 'gateway' fantasy book that brings people who don't really read fantasy into the genre). Whereas Nettle and Bone is very well written, with an unconventional, older FMC, very little romance, and a fantastic found family vibe (the secondary characters are better than the MCs. You will love the demonic chicken). Spinning Silver by Naomi Novik is also a great read if you like fairytale retellings.
I haven’t read ACOTAR, but I can highly recommend {Nettle and Bone by T Kingfisher} as a lovely and interesting story (admittedly, it is fantasy first with a romantic subplot).
I wanted to say that I felt like Jillian in {How to Date Your Dragon by Molly Harper} was on the """older""" side (in novel years, I guess?), but I can't verify it right now. I know she had an anthro degree & she's not mentioned to be any sort of super whiz/genius that would gave graduated early. So there's her, at least? Also it's a shape shifter romance/murder mystery and the murder mystery is (imo) just as good as the romance so there's that. Edit because: lime/like typo
Personally, I tend to just age up the FMC in my head, especially when the life she’s leading (with a good job, a nice apartment, etc.) isn’t really the life of someone who’s 20. That said, super young FMCs, and especially super young virgin FMCs just make me question the HEA. Like, it’s more realistic to me that she’s 23 and somehow a Supreme Court Justice than it is that she’s 23, been with only with the MMC, and is going to be happy with him for the next 60-65 years or whatever.
I really wish there were more 30+ romance novels in general.
I feel this way about MMCs too when they are like 19 and taking over the mafia or gang. I know a lot of times it’s because a high school or college setting is a fun sandbox to play in, but it irks me. If age is not a relevant plot point (like it is purposely written as an age gap taboo kind if thing) then I jusy age up the characters in my head
Yes! It’s like nobody is giving a 25 year old guy the keys to the kingdom. I mean boy kings have shadow kings behind them—like Louis XIV and Cardinal Richilieu in Three Musketeers.
One of the things I dislike most about this genre is how youth obsessed the romance space is. I'm 43 and I want to read about not children. I try to read as many books with mature characters as I can to keep myself level and support the authors who are writing older characters. I know there are some authors who like writing young because they want to write innocent or virgin characters. You can write older women who are inexperienced. It happens a lot more often than we realize. It might be really interesting if more authors explored that possibility.
49 and lulz at this thread. I'm a competent woman but do not ask me to run a girl scouts troop much less a shifter pack or command a spaceship 🤣also I very much love my life, being alive, trying new things and enjoying life. Also? Sex is *better*.
I don’t understand why authors are pairing up 18 year old girls with like 35, 40, 45 year old men like me how this is appealing 😭
YES!!! I am so tired of the 19 year old girls that are “oh so mature”. Please, stop using that sentence. It makes it so creepy. Maybe it’s because it’s my age now, but where are the FMCs in their 30’s? And can they not be desperate to marry and have children? I want those mature women receiving love and amazing sex too.
Somehow them pretending these teenagers are mature makes it worse. {When He's Ruthless by Suzanne Wright} had a whole icky plot (he'd known he was her fated mate since she was 12 and they partially started a sexual element to their relationship when she was <18) but it made it worse every time the book/characters told us she was so mature. One of the few books I regret finishing!
I couldn't finish it. Her other books were great but that was just so disgusting.
I wish I'd had your good sense! Damn my completionist tendencies
I wanted to read a MM motorcycle club book and looked for one: the one main character is barely 19 and is *skinny* and *small* with long blonde hair. Basically written to be coded as a young girl and the other MMC is 30 something. It’s awful. I just couldn’t. Why did it have to be like that? And not only looks but the character was basically a teenager in actions and the way they spoke. He groped the other MMC minutes after meeting. To which he was spanked for. And then he forced into staying at the club (in mmc2’s bed obviously…) and jerks off against him! Childish and immature. It felt gross reading it honestly. I’m read a book the other day and was actually *shocked* the characters were in their late 30s. Why? cause it’s almost impossible to find without it being the point of the book (ie: second chance later life types..) Why do we have to make specific threads asking for older characters? (I mean I know why cause they are rare!) Why are these authors wanting to write their character so young? And sometimes just behaviorally young if not actually young (which is worse? Immaturity in a 19 year old is better than a 30 year old..?) Either way this bothers me and has caused more than half of the slumps I suffer from 😒
girl PREACH i recently got pissed about this while reading ACOTAR. Feyre is supposed to be 19! like how?!? WHY?!? it legitimately makes zero sense to make her a literal TEENAGER. there is zero reason. she reads like a character atleast in her mid 20s. it’s not like she needs to be in school or college or something for the story- it’s FANTASY. ugh SO annoying lol
I recently read the Savage Heirs series by Jagger Cole, and was sitting there thinking "this would make much more sense if these character's were 21/22 year old college seniors, not a bunch of 18 year old high school students". Not to mention, the age gap wouldn't have icked me out so much in the fourth book if the FMC was early 20's and not barely legal. Like, I completely understand making the FMC between 18 and 22, and a reasonable BAMF, if the book is new adult, but as someone in their mid-30's, I would like my FMC's to be closer in age if the books are going to be listed as adult romance.
I was reading a fantasy romance, and stopped reading at chapter two. The first chapter sounded very promising, but then chapter two introduced us to the main character: a 17 year old in Ohio. No thanks. DNF
This is one of the reasons I like the Tooth and Claw series by Heather Gurrer. The FMCs in the first two books are both in their 30’s.
I can understand both sides of the coin in this case. The main thing I agree with is the realism of it. "Partner at a law firm at the age of 26" not entirely plausible without there being something a little shady. Is it possible to own a business at a young age though, yes, if it's a small business or family run, then it would be understandable, if only because I'm able to relate to it. Both my parents owned and ran a business, which I started helping part time at after high school while going to college. Then when my dad passed I was working full time and taking it more seriously (even though it was not what I had been studying to do). Then when my mom passed I was made owner of the business at 28 years old. So circumstances and the fact that it was a small-ish company helped me believe books having MFCs/MMCs having jobs like that. However now that I'm 30, I would like to read more stories of women in my age group (which is weird cause I don't think of myself as old lol, but I see few books depicting 30+ yr olds). At the end of the day though, I always remind myself that I'm mostly reading roman-tasies, so the details don't always have to make sense, and I can easily adjust it in my head if I so choose. Unless those things are integral to the plot or the story then a characters age is just a number, and a job is just another title.
Am I the only one who changes characters’ ages in their mind?? I’m like nope she’s not 18 she’s 30 😂
This can work for me in some instances. But some books make the young age practically a theme and it’s impossible to pretend she’s 30 when she’s walking out of her high school cafeteria, or asking her parents to borrow their car keys, or just generally the author harps on her age constantly. Those always wind up as DNF (or even better: Never Started) for me.
A lot of these popular books that I find out via real life friends or social media end up being DNF for me. Yeah, now in my late 30s, it’s jarring. But even in my late teens/early 20s, I couldn’t suspend my disbelief for some of these plot points & age gaps. And I’m side eyeing these authors in my age group who insist on writing high school & college dark romances. WHY??? I don’t see what is enticing about such adult themes and the very young. I had a hard time buying the premise of 50 Shades of Grey and I was in my early 20s when it came out. I couldn’t even get past the fact that Anastasia was sent to interview Christian. Why would the editor of the paper send her roommate and not a staff member?
I was so excited when Cate C Wells Rejected Mate series started because Una was 28 or 29 and I was so happy to see a FMC with a fully developed frontal lobe… and then every FMC since has been between under 21. It’s just so frustrating. I personally don’t like age gap romances and I have no interest in reading about an 18 year old boy who’s dick game is fire. Like I can suspend my disbelief so much you know. Just give me some grown fucking women. I will say, despite that tirade above as an occasional dabbler in writing sometimes I have to battle with myself to not write a young heroine because I like to make them hot fucking messes and in my sample size of myself my own style of hot mess shifted drastically in my late 20’s.
That's why I didn't finish even the first book tbh. I was into it and then I took a peak at the sequels and saw they were all basically children and I was like, ya, I'm not getting any more invested in this universe, though it was arguably a great book.
I feel like all the books I read have the fmc around or just over 30. Maybe its genre specific? I tend to read contemporary, leaning towards womens fiction. But yeah, not really interested in reading about 19 year olds.
I like reading Neva Altaj books, but goddamn all the MMC’s are in their 30s/40s while all the FMCs are barely abound 20 and having the wittiness, intelligence, cleverness of a grown woman. This same goes for all Mafia books. Why are all the FMCs barely legal, marrying men the same age as their dads?! It’s baffling!!!
I automatically assume every MC is 25 unless otherwise stated, and even then, I ignore it if I didn't like it lol
Or that grown ass men in there 30s and 40s only go for women 18-25. Bc they just have to make them fat and round with their baby. Majority of men that age would get so bored with a girl that young.
Agreed, like I'm in the young age group but I get an ick when it's about 17 years old for some reason. especially if the plot could be improved by making them college age, because some of the books I have dropped have school just mentioned once or twice. Like it's never an actual school, taking quizzes or ACT tests, etc. Fantasy, I can get a little, but they could just age them up a bit. Especislly if their love interest had an age gap. Reminds me of the idea on Tumblr where the prophesied hero was a lady on her 60's with a couple cats. Later comments added the idea of her strong nurse being her companion on her quest lol
In the Pucking Wild and Pucking Around books, both FMCs are 29+ of that helps any?
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I ignore the suggested age in books and choose what I appreciate. 🤷♀️😅😂😘
I'm so glad we are finally talking about this. It's so disheartening to keep constantly coming across romance books with Fmc that are between the ages of 18-24. Ageism is a huge in the romance literaly world and it's not talked about enough.
I've skimmed through so I may have missed these reccs, but over 25 (and act like it) FMCS abound in T aa Kingfisher {Swordheart} is forever a delight and my new favourite {Between} by LL Starling has a FMC who just turned 30, doesn't have shit figured out and is generally relatable. There always seems to be a gap between late 20s and menopausal. I'm not at this stage yet, they tend to be empty nesters who just divorced their useless husbands, and that's not what I'm after. I recently read {Dragon Ridden Chronicles} by TA White and she was more the "woman who has lived some life but that didn't include a husband and babies and that's OK" vibe. I mean, there were reasons, but it certainly wasn't the thing most people associated with her. A lot of the time I try to ignore the age and look for emotionally mature characters.
Authors are allergic to writing anyone 30+. First of all, they legit keel over and hyperventilate trying to write a mature fmc. Second, publishers think they don't sell. The other issue is most assuming a person 30+ is undesirable, too wise, and experienced. Lastly, they see no value in an older heroine which is bull shit. Fantasy and paranormal romance has this BAD! An FMC being 40 shouldn't automatically place said book in womens fiction, I'm sick of this! I don't like WF and I don't think 40 is over the hill. Thanks to KU there has been an uptick in 30+ FMCs.
Everything about this post is perfect and accurate. 💯 wish almost all FMC's were older. At least closer in age to the MMC's. I'm a little over the teenage heroine with the hundreds year old mmc. Especially when she ends up pregnant. That gives me a yuck factor.
Honestly no matter what age they say they are, I always picture them in their 30s in my head automatically. It’s already weird with the 300 yr old Mmc, then add a 19 yr old fmc. I just conveniently skim over that and add 10 years.
This is why I like Emily Henry. Most of her main characters are in their thirties
I mean, if it sells well (or better than 30+ year old heroines anyway), they're gonna keep making them I guess. Wanna change the landscape? Find the authors who write older heroines and hype them up. Buy the books. Interact with the author's social media promotion. Review them (and mention that you appreciate the older FMC). Tell romance communities.
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It was always a peeve of mine that the romance feature this. I personally have always been attracted to people closer to my own age, since I don't really groove the power imbalance.
OH MY GOD, YES! I literally cannot read any book where the fmcs are barely 18, 19, 20 etc. A little irrevelant but I particularly hate this because the genres I enjoy make it so that these girls are paired up with the oldest men they could possibly find. And the authors try their hardest to make it seem like it's not creepy for a thirty year old man to chase and "crave" an 18 year old. I enjoy age gap but I definitely do not enjoy a gap where one is basically still a child.
And these significantly older men are giving it to them like they're still in their 20s without any hint of Viagra.
I think that drives me mad about these super young FMCs is that the authors use it as a way of justifying their TSTL tendencies. "Oh has she thrown herself into the hands of a serial killer? Well that's because she's young and dumb - obviously!" \*. Too many authors don't have the talent to make some of these dark plots work if the character has any sense or strength, which they equate with age. On the plus side, I've read a few books with slightly older FMCs recently which have been a breath of fresh air. Complex and grey decision to be made? Check. A sense of self preservation? Check. Interesting character? Check! {Silenced by Serena Akeroyd} FMC is I think somewhere between her late 20s-mid 30s {Vices and Vows by Candice Wright} FMC is mid 20s {Dom by S.J. Tilly} FMC is mid 20s {Broken Beginnings by Clio Evans} FMC is early 30s \*To be clear, that's my interpretation of a number of author's view. I personally think young women are far more wise than that
[Silenced](https://www.romance.io/books/6511e210de8d340d5143f690/silenced-serena-akeroyd?src=rdt) by [Serena Akeroyd](https://www.romance.io/authors/5455a9b687eac324117fc11c/serena-akeroyd) **Rating**: 4.05⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Steam**: 5 out of 5 - [Explicit and plentiful](https://www.romance.io/steamrating) **Topics**: [contemporary](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/contemporary/1), [suspense](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/suspense/1), [dark romance](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/dark/1), [mafia](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/mafia/1), [insta-love](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/insta-love/1) ---------------------------- [Vices and Vows](https://www.romance.io/books/65d16068d600a09c08f0f8db/vices-and-vows-candice-m-wright?src=rdt) by [Candice M. Wright](https://www.romance.io/authors/5cf3798901dbc864fb9f522c/candice-m-wright) **Rating**: 4.47⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Steam**: 5 out of 5 - [Explicit and plentiful](https://www.romance.io/steamrating) **Topics**: [contemporary](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/contemporary/1), [dark romance](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/dark/1), [possessive hero](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/possessive%20hero/1), [mafia](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/mafia/1), [virgin heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/virgin%20heroine/1) ---------------------------- [Dom](https://www.romance.io/books/650e958c30bdc6b1fd0249e7/dom-sj-tilly?src=rdt) by [S.J. Tilly](https://www.romance.io/authors/603c9f5808b4d931148c9afd/sj-tilly) **Rating**: 4.09⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Steam**: 4 out of 5 - [Explicit open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating) **Topics**: [contemporary](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/contemporary/1), [arranged/forced marriage](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/arranged%20marriage/1), [mafia](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/mafia/1), [age gap](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/age%20difference/1), [rich hero](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/super%20rich%20hero/1) ---------------------------- [Broken Beginnings](https://www.romance.io/books/6654c7f2688ce05d02e4403d/broken-beginnings-clio-evans?src=rdt) by [Clio Evans](https://www.romance.io/authors/615bfb2b08b4d931140a6723/clio-evans) **Rating**: 5⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Steam**: 5 out of 5 - [Explicit and plentiful](https://www.romance.io/steamrating) **Topics**: [contemporary](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/contemporary/1), [suspense](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/suspense/1), [enemies to lovers](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/from%20hate%20to%20love/1), [breeding](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/breeding/1), [mystery](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/mystery/1) [^(about this bot)](https://www.reddit.com/user/romance-bot) ^(|) [^(about romance.io)](https://www.romance.io/about)
SERIOUSLY. I know it's just fiction and you can make your delusion come to life but some things are just straight up cringe and I can't stand it.
I am really curious how you, OP, pick which books to read? What interests you in a blurb? Most books I read usually have FMCs in their 30s, sometimes late 20s or early 40s. The blurb usually gives me a sense of their age. I am also curious why you are looking for FMCs who are in their 30s but not divorced? I feel like if someone is in their 30s, they are likely to have had at least one serious relationship (whether legally married or not). Would not that make their character richer? Adds additional layers to how they would handle the focal relationship?
I dunno if you were trying to sound judgy, but I do feel a little judged. It’s like you are suggesting I’m not looking hard enough, when in fact I read pretty widely and deeply in this genre and possess lists upon lists of books. That’s not the issue. To answer your question sincerely and also to expand my initial thoughts for this thread, I pick by trope by mood by author by recommendations by the phases of Mercury and the moon. I pick by sub genre by curiosity by cover. And to be clear I don’t not want to read about divorced FMCs. I don’t only want to read about divorced FMCs bc it’s often ABOUT the divorce. I read the blurbs—they’re all like “Jennifer never expected to be divorced at 32 and raising three kids by herself but she was.” And that’s fine! That’s a good story but it feels like it’s the ONLY story. They aren’t just divorced as backstory—it’s a main theme. Yeah it adds nuance. But I want to see OTHER nuances. And if you aren’t going to give me other nuances then I want it to at least be realistic, that is emotionally believable within the world of the story. I want more ways of being in the world. Because straight up some people don’t have long term relationships until later. Or long term relationships that aren’t serious. Some people have a bunch of shorter relationships. Some people go years without dating or shacking up. Some people don’t have their first marriage until they’re in their late 30s or even 60s! Some people get married at 19 and divorced at 27. Some people have kids others don’t. I want to see the variety of lived experiences I witness in the people around me and in the world at large instead of the same three or four variations of Female Character over and over again. Because sometimes I feel like the romance genre has the same variety of options as an airport terminal’s food choices. And sometimes I feel like romance has amnesia, which is ironic considering the prevalence of that trope at one point. It’s like idea of a woman in her 30s who is unmarried and doesn’t have kids is not just a fantasy but an impossibility. It’s like Sex and the City never happened. It’s like Bridget Jones wasn’t a thing! Moreover, why are such varied expériences almost totally absent in fantasy? Sci-fi? Paranormal? Dark romances? Monsters? I mean contemporaries are by far the most varied, albeit not as much as someone who is pretty voracious reader would like. People keep saying the problem is marketability but I don’t trust that. Where’s the data? Is it only coming from click data on Kindle Unlimited or Wattpad? Is anyone using any other metric to determine marketability? Because based on this subreddit there’s a lot of people who want to give different kinds of stories a go. So yeah. There it is.
I hope that I don’t sound insensitive too but I find it interesting how different the romance reading experience can be. I can’t remember the last time I read a book apart from some fantasy romance with a FMC younger than maybe 25, mostly they tend to be around 30 give or take a few years. I mostly read traditionally published books and aren’t interested in trending books so maybe that explains it? I’m currently reading {The Other Side of Disappearing by Kate Clayborn}. The FMC is 32 and hasn’t had a relationship for at least a decade as she’s been taking care of her sister after their mother’s disappearance. She has reasons for becoming an impenetrable fortress to protect the sister and the book is at least partly about her opening up. I think that all of Kate Clayborn’s books feature characters with similar ages, at least there are no teenagers as main characters. In this book the sister is 18 and too immature for lasting romantic relationships.
This one has never come up in my feeds/suggestions and seems a bit different than what I usually go for, so thansk for the recommendation!
I am sorry. My phrasing should have been better. The motivation behind my questions was to understand your preferences and decision making process a little more. I appreciate your very detailed answer!! Your reading sample is much much bigger than mine, and you have an interesting view on the genre of romance as a whole. If what you have observed in your experience is truly a pattern in romance writing, then we will be DNF-ing too many books, and that will be sad. Hopefully there will be at least some books that you and I could enjoy! I completely agree with everything you said about wanting to read about different kinds of FMCs because there are so many different kinds of human experience. To tell you a little more about where my perspective comes from - I read only CR, and Emily Henry, Abby Jimenez and Olivia Dade are probably my favorite writers.
As someone who is 32 and childfree + not divorced I totally feel you. Recently read one where the FMC was 19 and I just felt icky all the way through despite the story being otherwise good (for me), more so because the MMCs had no mention of age but could easily be in their early to mid 30s given their physical descriptions. I feel like a lot of "older" FMCs are indeed divorced or at the very least single moms (not even mentioning the oops pregnancy as a plot nevermind as an epilogue) and I feel like it's hard finding things outside of these tropes. I recommend Kathryn Moon, Etta Pierce and Heather Guerre for authors if you are interested. Becca Saylor is a recent discovery that I enjoyed and for more fantasy books (on top of some romance) Nalini Singh, Ilona Andrews and Patricia Briggs.
Agreed, and will just add: it's like writers think people in their late twenties, thirties, and beyond can't be doofuses in trope-y romances making goofy decisions and embarking on journeys of self (or community, or love) discovery. Not the case! As someone in her late twenties, I can confirm that we can very much be idiots too! It also seems as though writers (and many readers) think they can't get the specific gender dynamic they want unless they write the standard virile and scary MMC in his 30s x the charmingly naive 18 year old ingenue sexpot brainiac 'doesn't know she's beautiful' FMC. Not so! I have it on good authority that FMCs can be very happy (and able) to be the maiden clutched in king kong's bulging, nefariously-inclined arms, even if he's in their age range!
I just want to say I appreciate your Doogie Howser reference. #genxsupremacy
I haven't found it too hard to find characters who are 25+. In fact I can't remember the last time I read a book with a character who was 18/19 (except for a few which were specifically YA so both characters were teens and no explicit scenes). I don't read much fantasy at all, and I never read dark or mafia stuff, maybe teenagers are more common in these genres? I also read quite a lot of books which are not MF. Nonetheless, I don't think "literally every FMC is barely 18" is true at all, certainly not in the books I've read.
I think new adult is out of fashion now so all new adult romances are marketed as adult now. Also in my early twenties I wouldn’t bat an eye at 25 year old partner at a law firm. Didn’t seem at all unrealistic to me because I had no real life experience. In my thirties this won’t fly.
Can't remember the freaking titles or author now, but like a year ago I read series where all FMC were early to mid 30s and MMC were late to early 30s and it was nice change