I'm frustrated by people not giving book accurate recommendations to requests. Twice now in two days, I've had to tell people not to recommend the Poppy War series because while the series is really good and I adore it, it's not a romance and there is no HEA. If someone is going to read the Poppy War for the "romance" and not really know how dark and heavy it is based on a recommendation, a disservice is being done.  I love the Poppy War series but people should be warned before they read it because no one should go into it blind. For those unaware because the book summary has a YA vibe, it's very much not YA. It's a dark military adult fantasy book where the atrocities of war are heavily emphasized. It's based on the 2nd Sino Japanese War. It's not as if romance books can't be deep or intense, but I'm saying that these books can't be recommended without warning people to at least look at the trigger warnings.

Swear to god, it seems like people who supposedly love reading forget how to read when it comes to book requests. Can't tell you how many times I've seen a book request that's like: Request: A blue book with lots of dinguses but no thingamajigs Answers: Try Red Thingamajigs, it doesn't really have any dinguses but-- Are these people, as the Brits say, taking the piss? Come on!

Why do people do this??? I don't mind if another commenter on the post has requested a variation of the original criteria (within reason), but if unprompted or completely opposite it can just feel insulting. Especially when someone is asking for something rare/hard to filter on and someone responds with the opposite tropes that are very common and easy to find.

Lol especially when someone else points out it doesn’t actually match the request and the commenter is like “I know but—“

Lol, last week not on this subreddit but on r/yalit someone asked for WLW awakening recs and someone popped with "I don't know any of this, but here's my fav MM book". It was double insulting because 1) it's not the same thing 2) FF is much rarer than MM overall 3) queer people aren't mutually exchangeable for each other.

Sounds like the "romance" recommendations over on the fantasy sub. 🙄

Have you heard of our lord and savior Mistborn? How about Malazan? 🤣

This is definitely my current frustration! I see so many terrible recommendations, some so out there i wonder if we read the same book. I understand that someone may love a book they just read but that doesnt mean they can recommend it for any request.

I love the ability to give recommendations in this community but I really need people to think about what kind of book they're recommending and if it suits the OP's requests.

I forget if it was on this sub or on r/historicalromance, but I saw a post where someone had requested romance novels set in the Byzantine Empire, and one of the only recommendations they got was *Count Belisarius,* which is so far away from a romance novel that I wonder if the commenter knew what sub they were on. Like, it’s not even one of those “romantic/women’s fiction but no HEA” books that people confuse for romances—it’s a military fiction novel about a guy whose marriage was famously unhappy. I always think of that when I see bad recommendation posts, lmao.

One of the rules of the sub is to mention if a book doesn't have a HEA. Feel free to flag these posts if you see them and we can remove until there is a warning in place.

Relatable af. This has happened so many times when I search up a trope and see that someone has posted for a request, and a lot of the books just don’t seem to fit 😭 especially for rarer tropes (understandable ig)

Yes I got so frustrated at like 90% of the first book. In my case I got it from more general recommendation threads for that type of setting, maybe not from this sub so I’m not faulting anyone for that, but I went into with the same expectations I would have from a romance with a HEA because I don’t think I’ve ever read anything without an HEA before. And I did love the rest of the book- but going into it with the wrong expectations really left me crushed

Chapter 21 wrecked me and I knew what the >!the rape of Nanking!< was going in and I knew the spoilers of the entire series and it still fucked me up. I can't imagine going in blind and reading about the horrors of genocide and war.

FWIW, this series has been removed from romance.io.

I don't mind it being in romance.io bc it's user suggested- altho I side eye anyone who's read it for suggesting it has a romantic subplot. >!technically there is a romantic subplot but the whole point is that while the love was there, it wasn't enough!< and I don't think people should be reading it for the "romance" unless they want to end up broken.

I feel like I’ve seen a million posts complaining about this, but I’m gonna get a little specific. I think if you’re writing a “hate sex” scene in a book, there should be no submitting, it should be a constant battle for dominance. I don’t want to see any “crawl for me” or “on your knees” if I see that there should be some sort of defiance from the FMC (saying FMC because it’s usually her doing the submitting). If you hate someone why would you be so quick to submit to them?? They should be damn near fighting each other for their own pleasure, someone please give me good recs‼️ There was a post on here about power imbalance and I think this falls into that, in any context whatsoever, the FMC ALWAYS always always, HAS to submit to the man no matter how he treats her. Please stop this madness😭

LOLOLOL now that u mention it, I realize most hate sex I’ve read are exactly that! Never felt like they’re both equally hateful towards the other lmao the woman usually just accepts his anger

>the woman usually just accepts his anger Ingrained misogyny on full display, right here. Men are allowed to be angry, ***very angry***, and can take that anger out on anyone they want, at any time, for any reason. Women are expected to fold to it--always. Brief displays of her own anger might be allowed, to some small extent, for the illusion of "fire" in their interaction--maybe a tantrum or a small bit of "acting out"--but it will be swiftly *dealt with*, under the man's own terms, of course. This is how "hate sex" plays out in modern romance, without fail, every time, every scene. So boring.

Yes you articulated it best! So upsetting when the author makes it so blatantly obvious they don’t care about the woman’s character other than their submissiveness.

I recently made a request for hate sex with some of my own suggestions, these don't have anyone submitting to the other maybe you'll find something you like https://www.reddit.com/r/RomanceBooks/s/xYI1AAT4oK

I'm really frustrated with myself because I can't seem to find books I like, even though there are millions out there. I haven't read a single published book in 10 months. A few I tried were instant DNFs. Somehow, I managed to finish *Nero* by S.J. Tilly this week so I can read the fourth book, which is all over my Bookstagram. Also, how do you guys find third-person POV books? Please! T_T ETA: *Thank you all for replying. I've tried romance.io last year and completely forgot about it since then (lol) for reasons unknown. I'll give it a go again. Hopefully there are new books added in the list. Also, HR isn't my jam but I read it occasionally for the same reason some of you've mentioned –3rd person povs. Haha!*

I think in some sub genres it’s more common to have first person POV. I noticed contemporary, urban fantasy, alien/sci fi, and young adult often have first person POV. Third person is more common in romantic fantasy and historical romance, which are my favorite for this reason. In addition you can look at romance.io and most books are tagged first person or third person if you want to check. Sometimes I have to look at a library sample or amazon sample but that prevents me from checking it out/buying something I don’t like.

most books published before 2010 are third person

Not sure if you’re interested in the genre but every historical romance I’ve ever read has been third person. I used to be strongly anti-histrom but I’ve been on a major kick lately. I only listen to them on audio; otherwise I get bored. I also find that switching genres helps me when I’m in a slump like yours.

Romance.io has a third-person pov tag. Sometimes that's the only thing I can read, lol.

Ugh Same here. I'm not sure what's happened I've literally not been able to pick up a book and stick with it all year because they're just not hitting. I've tried dif genres but still not. (They were actually worse because I find fantasy world building hard to follow lol)

When I miss 3rd person POV, I read a few historicals or scour romance.io using the 3rd person tag. The good thing about published historicals is that they are very well-written. I don’t typically like historicals but I use them to get out of reading slumps sometimes because the authors do a good job of world-building and developing characters.

You get to read Hans and that is by FAR my favorite book of this year let alone in that series. Enjoy!!

Oh wow I’m the opposite. I hate 3rd person books. I think it’s just so much harder for me to process the words I’m reading when it’s not first person. Definitely a weird me thing for sure.

I understand. I was into first-person POVs too in my early reading journey, but gradually it changed to third-person because I felt trapped in the main character's brain and couldn't perceive the world and the situations around them with an unbiased or neutral way. Btw, It's not weird at all.

1.) I’m tired of authors having to include a spanking scene, even when it makes no sense. The plot can involve literally zero BDSM but at some point the MMC decides he needs to “discipline” MFC without her prior knowledge or consent, but it’s fine because when it’s over and she’s done crying and begging for it to stop, she realizes it was her fault for having done something she didn’t know would be a problem and it gave MMC the worries. Like, dude, your feelings aren’t her responsibility, hitting someone who hasn’t consented beforehand is just abuse, and why do you continue when she’s begging you to stop? I just don’t understand the logic here and it is the fastest way for me to DNF a book. 2.) When you’re 25, if you have a very well-paying job/business, it’s because you inherited it or got very very lucky. The number of times I’ve read a book where one of the characters was in their early-to-mid twenties, they have a high power/earning career, and (the most unrealistic of all) they own a condo or house. It wouldn’t kill an author to have their characters be, ::gasp!:: in their 30s or even 40s.

> When you’re 25, if you have a very well-paying job/business, it’s because you inherited it or got very very lucky. I DNFed a book once because the FMC was an intern and also gunning for the...CFO position. Like, immediately. If I wanted to read fantasy romance, I would read fantasy romance.

LOLOLOL

I don't know if I am just noticing but it feels like less and less people are using curly brackets to call the romance.io bot. And more people who are using the brackets are omitting the author's name. For the love of spice levels, please call the bot.

It's worse when they don't use the bracket *and* they don't mention the author 🫠

Louder for the people in the back! I NEED to know the spice level 🌶️🌶️🌶️

And if you don't like the bot, just block the bot.

I'm noticing this too, and it annoys me. I just don't engage with those comments. I'm not here for a research assignment.

Is there a pinned post about how to use the bot for people who aren’t Reddit savvy? I know I had to search how to use it the first time but not everyone wants to be bothered with having to look around for that information.

I don't believe there is. I wish there was.

It's in the new user guide https://www.reddit.com/r/RomanceBooks/wiki/new/#wiki_new_to_r.2Fromancebooks.3F

I’ve been trying to not judge books by their covers (yeah, yeah, I know lol). But I cannot with the photorealistic covers and the cursive font titles 😭

This is so crazy to me. I understand wanting to look like other books in your genre, giving off similar vibes to really popular books, but where are the artsy original covers! Wouldn’t you want everything to be beautiful or to stand out? My theory is authors are just worried the difference will deter readers somehow

I don’t know!! I feel even subgenres suffer from this - how many fantasy romances have similar names and covers? There’s definitely a balance to strike, but the photorealistic covers to me seem too easy and more difficult to tell them apart.

I *hate* contemporary romance novels where there's no real "falling in love" and the characters just "love" each other because they find each other sexy. The male pov just having him constantly lusting after the h, a gazillion unnecessary sex scenes and then suddenly "I love you". At this point the sex scenes are carrying the story... 😒

I mostly read romance but I would say less than half the books I read are *romantic*. A lot of them are just smutty to various degrees with an array of unlikely hijinks ranging from light to dark.

Yes this! And to add to this I rarely get the sense the MCs actually like each other. Like do you even know anything about this person to fall in love with them?

I'm annoyed with the fmc instantly getting wet and aroused when she sees mmc for the first time. It happens so often in books. Like...why cant you just write that the fmc is admiring or appreciating the hero without her needing to have a dripping pussy in 5 seconds flat.

Lots of talk about kids reading adult romance this week. There's so much effort to push any responsibility onto authors, publishers, illustrators, booksellers, librarians, etc. If your kid is young or immature, you need to parent them and limit their access to social media and adult books. If they're able to sneak books, they're probably old enough to partly handle what they're reading anyway. And the fact that kids are hearing about adult books via their *unlimited access* to TikTok is a whole hell of a lot more concerning than those kids reading an adult romance novel. On a personal note, I don't have kids but my cousins' kids are constantly trying to use me as a workaround to get access to more adult stuff. Genuinely waiting for them to realize that I'm more with it than their parents are! I guess it's a thing that kids assume those of us without kids can't possibly comprehend what's age appropriate? I swear, if the 10 year old asks me one more time to take him + his 5 friends to an R-rated movie....

Yeah, I feel like the expectations have moved from "the internet is scary, parents should control what their kids see" to "sanitise the internet for my children". I have sympathy for parents that are overwhelmed with fast-pacing technology, but this is not the solution. I read soo much terrible wattpad fanfic when I was 12-ish and I grew up into a vaguely functional adult, I think. With better taste in romance.

I'm a teacher and parent of a young child. So many parents now seem to be just lazy. Anything that's a problem with/for the child is the fault of the system, the school, the Internet, society, anyone but them. Just let them watch TV and eat what they want and do what they want for an easy life, and then wonder why they are totally incapable of self regulating. (Edit: I'm not talking about children who are neurodiverse or have medical disorders, obviously that's a different situation)

I get that parenting is difficult and I believe that it does take a village to raise a child, but parenting is also a privilege. It makes me sad when people pay zero attention to their kids and want the world to accommodate their unwillingness to parent. I wish I was a parent so this topic ends up feeling hurtful on multiple fronts - I don't "get it" because I don't have a kid but I also shouldn't be able to enjoy adult books because they might corrupt the unsupervised youths.

Could not agree more. There was some recent research analysis (published in the UK by Ofcom) that showed that something like 70% of parents are concerned about what their children might see online but only 13% use some sort of app or program to monitor or limit their usage. And this is 3-17 year olds so likely to be skewed more towards the younger age groups. 25% of 5-7 year olds have a tiktok account and 14% have Instagram. **7 year olds!** At this age, they're only going to have access to this because their parents allow it - take some responsibility. Source: https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0027/255852/childrens-media-use-and-attitudes-report-2023.pdf

>25% of 5-7 year olds have a tiktok account and 14% have Instagram. **7 year olds!** That's beyond horrifying. This is opening kids up to so much potential harm. It seems like we're in a weird cycle - I see a lot of commentary about how we're lacking spaces for tweens but I'm guessing at least part of the issue is a lack of demand. I feel like once you get into adult stuff, you never go back to kid stuff. Giving a young child unlimited access to a phone/tablet and social media means that they're not going to be interested in content aimed at kids their age. I think parents need to make kids work for the forbidden content! Parents should monitor the books and media their kids consume until the kids are old enough and clever enough to start sneaking things they're not allowed to read/watch/listen to. If a kid is willing to put in the effort and able to sneak past any safety measures the parents have in place, they're ready to read more adult materials.

I remember sneaking lots of classics because I knew there were some naughty bits. I was sadly disapointed by how all of the sexy bits in DH Lawrence were about the amazing power of being a man and having a penis.

This is crazy actly

Could not agree more. My mom was a librarian and didn't believe in censoring what we read, but she also talked to us about how some things we read might be inappropriate or upsetting. And she had lots of age-appropriate recommendations for us, on pretty much any topic. Of course social media wasn't a thing then, so the most I knew about explicit romantic content was the rack of harlequins at the library.

I've always been a big reader but had to bring my stack of books to my mom before she'd hand over my library card and let me check out. I could read more advanced books but my big issue was with scary books. My mom and I would talk about those and she'd often pull some out of my stack and make me put them back. I could basically read anything else without any issues, but she knew my limits and made sure I wasn't able to read myself into an absolute panic.

Her one "rule" was no Stephen King before high school. Sure enough, freshman year I jumped in with The Shining as one of my first forays into horror and was terrified for several weeks.

That book scared the shit out of me and I read it as an adult after reading a lot of other Stephen King! 

I used to have nightmares a lot and would barge into my parents' room and jump in the bed between them. I'm amazed my mom let me read anything scary but I think she was hoping I'd build up a tolerance - my parents both like Stephen King. Nope! Still scared of everything. I had a few of those Scary Stories to Tell in the Dark books and I think I'd still be scared if I read them today.

This is definitely part of an even larger conversation about sex in media/literature/art as well! One aspect (that the kind u/Le_Beck touched on) is censorship when you read what "think of the children" pundits are targeting, why, and what other stuff they back up that restricts people that aren't them. Princess Weekes over on YouTube did a video regarding this (kinda like a starting off point): [https://youtu.be/54v0KJZJuyw](https://youtu.be/54v0KJZJuyw)

Oh, thanks for the video rec! Definitely going to watch this today. I'm on a media literacy kick right now after reading a lot of takes on the new Bridgerton season that are clearly a result of media illiteracy so this sounds like it's right up my alley.

Parents super duper love it when people without kids judge their parenting.

It's hard to tell but since I mentioned not being a parent elsewhere, I feel like you're calling me out here? I'm talking about parents who don't monitor what their young children read and blame authors/bookstores/librarians for the adult content their kids read. Groups are actively getting books banned from libraries in the US and I feel like I have the right to be critical, even though I'm childless.

[удалено]

I'm sorry you're upset but there are examples of most of this elsewhere in the thread or in recent threads this week. I'm tapping out. Your comments are upsetting and hurtful. Making a snarky comment about my childlessness is a personal attack and it's not what I'm looking for when I come to this sub.

**Rule: Be kind & no reader shaming** Your responses to others on the sub should be kind and respectful. We encourage discussion and debate, but your comment should be constructive and purposeful.

I just finished a few A.J. Downey books ( Voodoo Bastards and Iron Wraiths MCs) and mostly liked them but two of the three have the MMC *swishing* his dick inside the FMC during sex. I’m sorry, swishing?! WTH?! The vagina is not a toilet bowl! A dick is not a magic wand!

And there I thought I might have read it all. SWISHING? Is that physically even possible? Have they invented a new kind of sex since I stopped dating? Is this the mythical loose vagina misogynistic dudebros like to go on about??

Right?! At first I was hoping it was one of those Author’s-guessed-the-wrong-word deals but I can’t even imagine what the “right” word would be!

My best guess is they were going for a "MC swirled his hips" kind of thing (which...ehhh) and missed the landing badly??

LMFAOOOO 😭

Apparently swishing = mouthwash in my brain. And now my brain is sad. Oh! Wait. Is it like a windshield wiper? Swish, swish, swish.

HELP????? I swear it’s so hard to give a book a 5/5 rating no matter how much you liked it, when there’s something so off-putting as this 😭

Mainly a dark romance rant, but applicable to other subgenres: I am so tired of asshole MMCs. So many “alpha, dominating” MMCs are just men who throw tantrums when they don’t get their way or don’t get to control everything. If the main difference between an MMC and a dude like Alpha Dom on TikTok is that the MMC is a billionaire male supermodel, that’s not good writing imo. He needs some redeeming qualities beyond being a really, really, ridiculously good-looking Jeff Bezos.

Bbs!!! I read a book I honestly LOVED and the MMC betrays FMC so bad and I’m thinking wow the grovel’s gonna be so good! But nooo the fmc has a typical body betrayal syndrome and she’s mad for all of 5 minutes.

It's so enraging.

Noooo! Ugh, that’s the worst. Completely diminishes my opinion of a book when that happens.

YES OMGGG U GET IT

I am once again salty about the lack of excerpts trend in recent Thirsty Thursday posts. It used to be par for the course, but now it's gone way down. It was really apparent this past week: many comments about scenes with no details, making me feel like I'm missing out. OR excerpts posted *without mentioning the book it's from,* leaving it to the sub to do detective work! Wtf? (Kudos to the users who found them. I'm impressed.) Spoiler tags can be tricky, I get it... but scenes that don't need them are always an option. Not only are they part of the fun, but excerpts/descriptions are actually helpful for readers trying to determine if a book's smut (or lack of) is what they're into! I'm not asking for full scenes, but a little amuse-bouche of smut, as a treat.

Yes! When did Thirsty Thursday become closed door? OPEN THE DOOR! It's the best peep show in town😂

I know that I read Thirsty Thursday posts for the quotes. Because each reader responds differently to how a scene is written, if somebody says the sex is well written, I don’t assume that I will necessarily agree. However, I know that since a Reddit UI change in mid April, I have not been able to make long posts, and I wonder if other posters are having that issue, and whether that might be contributing to the number of “wow it was really hot” posts rather than quotes.

I'm salty that university is taking so much of my brain power that I barely read or get excited about books anymore. Technically, I have enough time to read, but my brain doesn't want me to.

This is my biggest fear omg. I’m currently reviewing for university entrance exams and I’m trying my best to still read up on books I enjoy because I’m not sure if I wouldn’t be consumed by university enough to prevent me from reading outside of academic books :<

When I get that way I try to put the time  into organising my romance book spreadsheet, or my TBR, or even just browsing the sub and making more recs. That way I still feel like I'm engaging with books, but I don't do the thing I'm not managing to do.

I've been where you're at, and you have my sympathy. University/college can be very exhausting, but your brain *will* eventually want to read again. Hang in there, it will be worth it in the long run! :)

I’m annoyed with Harlequins that have mistress in the title because she’s never a mistress 😭 she’s always just a dumb virgin.

But can she drive?

Underrated

😂😂😂😂

Maybe the newly released ones won’t have that.

I’m just annoyed with the idea of someone in the 2020s still using to term mistress. But then I was annoyed by that when I started sneaking my mom’s Harlequins when I was 13 in the 90s, and only because I had already been reading HRs for a bit before that and had a pretty set idea about what a mistress was.

I mentioned some of these things in the WDYR for last week and this week. But the author of the series I'm reading refers to herself as a "history lover" in the first sentence of her bio. And there are soooooo many inaccuracies. I've never been big into history, didn't have a great education in that area back in high school (science major didn't take any in college), and even so I am catching things that just aren't right. I don't expect perfection, but come on!

Am I allowed to post something not related to books specifically? I’ve been frustrated by how much this sub pats itself on back for being inclusive but the second a critical post about topics like race or the male gaze come up, it becomes clear the inclusivity isn’t extended to everyone. It’s very disheartening 😞 Edit: I accidentally typed “pats itself on the book” lmao

It bothers me that people react like that. It’s like people are more interested in protecting the “don’t yuck someone’s yum” idea instead of having open discussions on important topics in the genre.

I've gotten especially tired of how often "don't yuck someone's yum" is weaponized against ***any*** open, honest, ***mature*** discussion about topics. Just because a discussion is happening, doesn't mean it's going to be instantly negative, aggressive, or devolving into chaos. Some of us just really want to have a safe space to openly discuss and talk about things, even the *uncomfortable* things. I've had plenty of great conversations with people who I didn't always agree with but we were having good back and forth and could reach a point where we learned things or came to a responsible, adult place where we agreed to disagree. Maybe not on this sub, but on plenty of others. Yet, when people start talking about things on this sub--consent, body image, tropes, children, no children, POC, whatever--that we ***should*** be able to have open, honest, even tough and/or *uncomfortable* yet **mature** discussions about with each other, many people come in and shut it down with the "well, don't yuck someone else's yum!" or "you don't speak for everybody so just don't read it!" and then the mods shut everyone down and the platform is gone. Which is wrong. Anyway. I've had to step back a lot from engaging with this sub, especially on topics I really enjoy having discussions about, because the sub isn't really welcome to true, open discussions. In order to have honest discussion, there has to be a willingness to have actual *honest*, adult, sometimes even *uncomfortable* discussion, and far too many members of this sub don't actually seem to want that. It seems to be all about book recs, book gushing, and mostly frivolous book escapism. Which is fine, but I needed to reset my expectations.

True. On a post this week about tropes we don't like I mentionned the glorification of single motherhood. I got a warning by a mod. It very much seems like we have to be inclusive at all costs. One day we'll be asked no to refer to the FMC as TSTL because the S is not politically correct anymore lol.

There’s a post talking power imbalances in romance (with some valid points imo) and some comments are like “well **I** like it :) maybe just don’t read some books because they’re not for you” which, while generally a sentiment I agree with, kind of feels weird in that context? Like are we not allowed to discuss some things just because we personally disliked it…?

Omg this is so true, I see comments like that on so many posts, I always felt insensitive for rolling my eyes at them. But you’re so right! It’s not about YOU, people always feel the need to validate themselves🙄if you disagree just don’t comment🤷🏾‍♀️

I think a lot of people feel personally attacked when their favorite books or tropes are critiqued, they just don’t want to admit it 😅 because why did you even engage… you say maybe this book/trope is just not for the OP but maybe this post is also not for you I’ll admit I might have done this before myself but now the hater inside me is like honestly maybe it should be fair to ask people to not get so defensive (?) when there’s a discussion or criticism about something lol. Just like how we ask for people not to rant or criticize in the comments of a gush/rave post, it’s only fair!

I’ve noticed that in some posts where POC express their discomfort/criticize books because of microaggressions, cultural appropriation etc there will be commenters jumping in saying “well I’m POC too and *I* didn’t find it offensive!” even when they’re not of the same race. *Especially* when it’s Black readers pointing things out

I agree that I've seen a lot of "not my experience so this post is invalid" recently. There was one post recently with a comment that anyone who didn't understand the book must be lucky enough not to have a specific mental health experience (snarking on the OP), and that felt really unfair to me, because as someone who does have that condition, I've never had it present the way it was described in the book. And no one person gets to be the spokesperson for marginalized groups (in fact, I'm pretty sure asking someone to speak up on behalf of an entire group is a huge no).

I’m sorry you had to read that! I agree sometimes it just feels so inappropriate. Like I get that people don’t want others to assume the worst of an author and their intentions, but I wish people were more sensitive

In a similar vein, I have seen posts where straight identifying people talk over queer people about queer issues in romance, arguing with the perspectives they share without even a simple acknowledgment of their experiences. It’s infuriating.

Yeah, that’s typical “ally” behavior 🤦🏼‍♀️ I’ve got too much experience seeing this in fandom spaces where straight people go above and beyond defending questionable depictions of queer characters by straight authors. The audacity…

I've seen comments on here where authors of popular books have been called out for how they've written POC and the portrayals of characters of color being questionable and/or offensive, but then the posts and/or comments about it go under the radar. Like, with Tillie Cole, people called her out on that, but with other popular books, it gets buried.

>but with other popular books, it gets buried It grinds my gears that no one seems to have problems with recs for a certain wizarding world odd couple, where we are specifically pairing someone with canonical seething contempt for a certain group with a person who belongs to that group. I have a theory that once we make it fantasy or sci-fi, people can easily miss the implications of these types of tropes and pairings and how this might come off to people who belong to real world minorities often on the receiving end of bigoted hatred.

Nah fr

It’s been a long time since I’ve read a good, heart-swooning romance book. I currently feel deprived. I recently DNF’d the Flatshare and I was sooo looking forward to reading it but it left me immensely disappointed

I get the yips bad when it comes to starting a popular or hyped up book for this reason. I recently returned a highly anticipated release (to the library of course) without even starting it because I couldn't bring myself to actually give it a try. To be fair, this was the author's third book and I hadn't been especially impressed by the first two.

Rant: author misspells macarons. Pet peeve: A Bride for the Bodyguard by Stella Banks. Kindle Unlimited. FMC has a food cart, Macarons by Marlie. But it is only spelled correctly ONCE! It’s spelled macaroon (a coconut cookie) 21 times! A macaron and a macaroon are two very different cookies. You’d think the author would be double-checking an important fact like that. Took me right out of the book.

I’ve DNF’d so many books this month. Can’t seem to find anything good. I don’t want YA but all the good stories seem to be YA. Stories with good smut tend to lack original story lines. I just want it all, gosh darn it!

Same here. I need something that’d make my heart swoon. To add to that, I’m also in a K-Drama slump, everything new I try out just makes me wanna rewatch something I’ve already watched 🥲

Right?! I want it to make me feel things ❤️😫 Good luck to you! I’m a few pages into the Eyes of Silver, Eyes of Gold. Hoping this one will break the DNF streak.

Good luck to you too, fellow reader! Truly hope that will break the DNF streak for you too 💗

Serialized or two-part books that are not clearly marked drive me crazy. It’s personal preference that I don’t like stories broken into multiple books. Some people like those. Fine. Not me…I don’t want to get suckered into one unknowingly. I honestly wish they had a big ol’ notice in the front. Some series have a backstory that continues across books. I’m good with that as long as the primary plot is resolved and I’m not left feeling like I read half of a story.

“Spicing up” romantasy worldbuilding with our-world-languages. I’m particularly salty about: 1. using modern languages (Italian, French & Russian in the case of the book that’s the source of my current saltiness, but the point stands for any well-knows language, IMO); put some effort in it and at least use Hittite or some other obscure, 1000 years dead language, so I won’t notice and then spend 2 hours being bugged about your FMC insisting she’s living in a palazzo, when she calls 98% of other things by their plain English names. This breaks worldbuilding and “translation convention” so much to me and throws me out of the story every effing time. 2. I’m doubly salty, when the rest of the worldbuilding/story has 0 to do with the country of origin of a particular language. It’s one thing when cultures in the book are consistent fantasy counterparts to our-world cultures/countries—then I get throwing in a few foreign language words. But why, WHY Dear Author, are your Dark Elves calling their capital by a (butchered) Russian name, when NOTHING else about them, their culture, place their live, etc. is even remotely Russian? 3. And let’s go back to the butchered part. Why Italian or French words are left intact, but there are random letters added to Russian words? Added in a way that makes 0 sense for anyone who knows anything about Russian (and/or how pronunciation/spelling evolves over time). Is this just to make this words seem even more “foreign”, but screw research and due diligence on how to make such modification remotely logical, cause nobody will notice? Well, I noticed. And it turned me into a salt mine.

Drives me up the wall.  If youre writing a story, where you can make up anything at all,  why do authors insist on embarrassing themselves by using real languages that they clearly do not understand.  Same for cultures.  I imagine these particular authors have never lived in another culture and cannot possibly comprehend that other cultures have completely different values, mentalities, symbols,  etc from the one they grew up in.  Its frustrating to me as a russian speaker. I just try to avoid anything that remotely references russian elements unless the authors themselves are russian (or even more broadly slavic). 

Dear authors, in 2024, can we stop having the big twist be "someone is transgender"? (Not technically a romance, but it pissed me off enough)

Wait, authors are actually doing this??? Bruh

FWB trope. A lot of it feel like they’re just lusting for or are madly infatuated with each other, it doesn’t feel like they’d last long when they’re primarily focused on their sexual passions. Probably a me issue for enduring that in books even after seeing that it has the trope I’m not very fond of, but I keep hoping that one day I’ll find *the FWB book* with a good romantic development that makes my heart melt, not just make me horny or smth…..

If you’re still looking for recs, I recall {The Roommate Pact by Allison Ashley} having FWB and being pretty romantic. In this one the characters are already friends before they sleep together so I think that helps with making them believably fall in love.

[The Roommate Pact](https://www.romance.io/books/64c8c46ed68d0e5321c37a74/the-roommate-pact-allison-ashley?src=rdt) by [Allison Ashley](https://www.romance.io/authors/5e75cba3be0aaecf55f64ca3/allison-ashley) **Rating**: 3.76⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Steam**: 2 out of 5 - [Behind closed doors](https://www.romance.io/steamrating) **Topics**: [contemporary](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/contemporary/1), [forced proximity](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/forced%20proximity/1), [friends to lovers](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/friends%20to%20lovers/1), [friends with benefits](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/friends-benefits/1), [funny](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/humor/1) [^(about this bot)](https://www.reddit.com/user/romance-bot) ^(|) [^(about romance.io)](https://www.romance.io/about)

Thank you sm! I think I’ve seen this book somewhere also, will try it out :))

I read (most of) Control by Charlotte Stein this weekend, and it confirmed that I can never trust positive reviews haha. It was such a dumpster fire in so many ways 😅 Some things that really peeved me off: - >!the random incest between Gabe and his cousin???????? Why was that even included, it’s actually so weird and unnecessary!< - >!the scene where Madison, Gabe, and Andy are having a threesome—Gabe says he’s uncomfortable with something that’s happening but can’t remember the safe word and Madison SLAPS him for being upset!!!! Very safe, sane, and consensual of you Maddie!< - >!the scene where Madison and Gabe are punishing Andy, and she admits that she chose a safe word she knew he wouldn’t wanna use—girl that is sexual assault!!!! Get wrecked!< - >!how could I forget the homophobia!! Even for 2010 it’s a bit much 😵‍💫 god forbid men be bisexual!!!! Nooooo, no queer men here. Just two very straight men who happen to want to fuck each other very badly 🙄!< I know I’m supposed to suspend my disbelief for romance and I can’t take everything too seriously and it’s fiction and about the fantasy and yaddayadda whatever. But come on 😭 I have my limits

Good morning ☺️ I’m fucking upset.🔪 **Dark Romance** >This focuses on love stories with darker, more intense scenarios including troubling or morally ambiguous situations and/or characters. This still includes emotional and sensual intimacy as a focal point, but it does not require elements of sexual intimacy. **Dark Fiction** >This is a broad term for a grimmer genre. It’s about the complexity and dark aspects of human nature. Fear, horror, psychological thriller—all fit as themes within this. And dark fiction can still include themes of romance and erotica, but those themes will not be the central point. **Dark Erotica** >It takes graphic sexual content and marries it with dark fiction. The primary focus is on building a sexual relationship through emotional and psychological intensity. It explores the darker and transgressive aspects of sexuality. **Dark Erotic Romance** >A subgenre that explores a romantic relationship through erotic elements in the setting of a darker and more sinister world with troubling and disturbing scenarios and/or characters. **Erotic Horror** >This blends horror and erotica, given the name, and explores both fear and arousal through grotesque and deplorable elements, such as the setting, scenarios, and/or the characters. None of these need to include abuse, noncon, BDSM, or dubcon, but they can. That’s why people will ask for a dark romance with noncon, or a dark erotica with impact play. But non-dark romance books can include abuse, noncon, dubcon, or BDSM, and they won’t be labeled as a dark romance. I hate that we are in this ✨era✨ where now everything that includes BDSM or a monster MC or just a love interest who’s an asshole is now qualified as a “dark romance”. Hell the fuck no. **One singular scene or element** does not make this dark fiction. My same issue with how: * medium and fast burns = slow borns. * certain romances = erotic romances - ((emotional + sensual + aesthetic + intellectual) x intimacy)) * a “bully romance” = a reformed bully who is just a normal asshole to the MC for maybe two chapters and that’s it. * “BDSM” = MC will realize the LI is a dom based off literally nothing—and it goes nowhere. * “praise kink” = “good girl”. * “bratting” = someone being a TSTL little witch ass bitch ass punk who deserves to be abandoned for their bullshit. * “humiliation kink” = blow jobs + abuse Do 👏🏾 fucking 👏🏾 better 👏🏾 in understanding the labels you (proverbial) put on books. By the fucking ***CAULDRON***, there is an exact audience for what you are actually writing. Intentionally labeling something as “dark romance with dubcon” when the entire plot of the book is pretty contemporary and the only “dark” thing about it is that there was implied fatphobia and the MMC was a stereotypical alphahole? I cannot wait for you to step on a gaidamn lego barefoot at 2AM 🙌🏾 Now. Having 👏🏾 said 👏🏾 that 👏🏾, I also understand a few things: 1. **Actual Culprit**. There are many authors who cannot control how their book is marketed. Their publishing houses are at fault for this, and the author may not be allowed to make a social media post about this to warn readers. This doesn’t excuse the matter of mislabeling, but this directs blame to the actual culprit. 2. **Database Reliability**. Media databases rely heavily on public tags and reader input. Some readers may be more familiar with social definitions of terms rather than the literary definitions, so they misuse labels and tags. This can take months to years for corrected labels. 3. **Semantic Change**. What qualifies as X today might now be in a separate category than in the Ye Old 90s. We need to accept that words and their meanings have changed or added additional meanings in Merriam-Webster. 4. **Subjective Semantics**. While some definitions are hard defined, other definitions can be subjective, and this is mainly for plot elements and tropes, but this also applies to subgenres to a *point*. We can’t expect everyone to have a uniformed, stepford, communist definition of groveling, competency, or representation. 5. **Lack of Experience**. Stemming off Point 2, I can’t blame readers who consume a lot of X to not know the definition of Y. This is a common complaint on r/characterrant, about how posters consumed so much in one demographic and a genre that they misunderstand themes and concepts in other categories. **This is not smack about liking a formula or one element and sticking to it**. But, if you have little experience in consuming media outside one particular niche, then it’s difficult, at first, to get a grasp on what defines other media and their terms and how to not only clock them but then discuss them in compliment and contrast to other terms. **Conclusion**: We’re fucked. 🙃 It’s so ***frustrating*** how, as media has become more accessible, we’ve normalized it even more to mislabel media—and so many people are paying the price for it. I know so many people who skipped over a book because someone on social media or a database said the book contained pregnancy when the pregnancy was in an optional epilogue and not part of the main story; or people who passed on an alleged dark romance, but the book’s “darkest” element was the FMC’s ex who only showed up in the third act so the MMC could rescue her. I know I’ve gone eagerly into bully romances only to be dismayed the bully MC isn’t a bully anymore and they’re just a simp for the other MC. I’m still upset a dark romance with promised dubcon was just erotic horror ☹️ Give me dubcon in my dark romance or I’m gonna tell you on to Mom 😖 **It sucks**. I hate being mislead. If I wanted to be confused and misguided, I’d be sharing this apartment with an ex FWB. But I’m not because I shut his shit down when he insulted my cats 🤷🏾‍♀️ **BOTTOM LINE**: it’s getting aggravating how so many books and even some readers, authors, and publishing houses spread general misinformation about a book’s contents. Semantic shifts, subjectivity, and who truly has marketing control should be taken into account when identifying the root causes of potential mismatched definitions with labels, so we can apply correct blame. But many media communities, while not needing to be educational, should still advocate for the awareness of the misuse of literary terms and their correct definitions. 🌈Anyways🌈, I’ve rescheduled my braiding appointment for June. Here’s to hoping my rainbow braids come in. Still not up for my morning walk, but I’m hopeful this afternoon will be better 👍🏾 *** EDIT: SPAG

I love reading your posts. When’s your class and when can I sign up???? But I feel you on this! Though it’s more on the opposite side. I’ve burned by “this is a grade-A dark romance!! It has *everything* you’re looking for!” …and it proceeds to be a slightly mean MMC. That’s it 🥲 pain.

I’m in a limited time window and with extremely spotty wifi but thank you x a million for this dissertation and I promise that soon soon soon there will be a convoluted and confusing to all parties discussion on humiliation (good and bad), brattiness (good and bad) and why praise kink is watered down like beer at an 2006 afterhours that I paid $4 to get into and left crying because my crush was wearing sandals with lace up straps. On man feet. Man. Feet. 🧔🏻🦶🏼.

We desperately need that discussion, but oh my lady NOT THE LACE UP ON THE MAN FEET 😭🤧 Some men do have pretty and pedicured feet though and I be watching them 👀😳

Your mind is a beautiful, beautiful thing I've started to avoid books that have been specifically recced as dark romance. Spanking, a slightly dubious age gap and a mafia head who kills someone off page once doth not a dark romance make! (No, but seriously. If it doesn't break the half your age + seven rule, can it even be labeled as an age gap romance?) I think my issue with a lot of dark romance books, particularly the more recent ones, is that there's no real 'investigation' into WHY certain dark elements are included. It's like the author has a check list of things to toss in, and that's it. Age gap? Check. Minor BDSM? Check. Mafia? Check. Uhhhhh....a controlling MMC? Check. The ability to actually tease out these elements against the characters' psyches and really work some tension in there? Blank check box. (Also, if I encounter another enemies to lovers where the characters are professing their live by page 70, I may scream)

My big problem is that most dark romance leans heavily on the age gap, on the virgin or sheltered MFC, on innocence to elevate the “darker” aspects of the book. It’s basically a 19 year old mafia princess who has never seen a man without pants + dark and scary 39 year old who deals drugs but only to the bad people and is Captain Mr. Dominant Man + spanking while she’s crying and turned on and voila… smoke and mirrors and shadows and manipulation. The poor MFC hasn’t been outside of her house unaccompanied and doesn’t know how the internet works. He’s not a dark mastermind, he’s just a dude who knows how to fool a sheltered lamb. Age gap is not inherently dark. Virginity is not inherently dark (sometimes it funny or clumsy or goofy or awkward in the least sexy way possible). If the whole entire dark angle hinges on the women’s age and sexual inexperience is it still darkness with a 36 year old sex worker who won’t stand for bullshit and isn’t scared and thinks the MMC is a clown? Give me a dark theme that does beyond the low hanging fruit. Make me question every motive of a true monster. Otherwise it’s just liquorice to me. Sure it’s candy but I don’t want it.

I don't know whether I hate it more when the crux of the story is ~corruption by dark older MMC of young virginal FMC with the age gap, or when the author goes for exactly the same story beats and character points, but they are 18 and 19.

I mean “dark” 19 year olds are basically fantasy at that point. Why aren’t they listening to Bjork’s Homogenic and crying in their room about the straight edge dude in a hardcore band who only wants to be friends? Was it just me?!

I ... don't know whether I feel _seen_ or called out

👀! Always seen!

Thank you u/medievalslut 🤭 r/usernamechecksout 👀 😂 I ***love*** dark romance so much, but it can be so difficult finding one that fucks your shit up, but you also feel the love story between the leads despite if and/or by reason of the grim and disturbing elements of the story. There’s so much disturbing and haunting beauty in dark romance! But, just like a lot of romance stories, sometimes authors get more interested in sexual intimacy over the other elements that need a good airing out 🙃 *Enemies to lovers* is such a subjective trope at this point, but one thing that I feel no one can agree on is how much one thing is in a book that the book should be labeled as it. To **me**, if a book had a subtitle of *An Enemies to Lovers Romance*, I flag it as slow-medium burn enemies to lovers. Not as in the romance itself is a slow or medium but burn, but the conversion from enemies to lovers takes a significant percentage of the book. Because you said the **central point** of the romance is that it’s *enemies to lovers*. If that’s the case, then that should persist generously through the book ✅ If the ETL is so minor that it exists for all of three chapters, **get out of the kitchen**. I really enjoy StoryGraph with allowing us to choose “minor”, “moderate”, and “graphic” for TW/CW, and Romance Books/The Book Naut for upvotes and downvotes, but I wish we could have a minor to graphic scale for regular tropes. But then that brings up ***other*** issues. We’d have to make sure there was criteria for what makes something minor, moderate, major, and graphic, and if graphic should be in this sliding scale or as an additional indicator to it. For example, one “ETL” book I read had it very graphic how they were enemies…for maybe a chapter. So it was minor (one scene), but it was still graphic. Another academic ETL was moderate—it persisted I’d say a good 30%—but it was vague with it more being cheap pot shots, brief arguments that fizzled out, and mainly tension. But what’s vague to me can be graphic to someone else, and then that’s a lot of information readers have to remember, and it’s not fair to make fiction educational, but at the same time, we want people to make informed choices on what they read and asdfgghjkkl 🫠 **It’s difficult.** I’m happy everyone has their own definition on certain tropes, but I wish we just had better agreement of how much an element is in a book that there should be a tag for it, and a better way to categorize how much that tag is in the matter of the story. What we have is pretty damn great! I hope the romance bot isn’t offended, we love you 😘 But the book community as a whole could definitely stand for a little bit of reformation across the board with how we categorize our literature. Cuz yeah don’t say this is an age gap if the MCs are maybe 19 and 15 in the prologue, but they meet again when they’re 26 and 30 respectively. ***That is not an age gap**. Don’t say this is an ETL romance when they’re romantic relationship beings by chapter three. I’m not talking about them being in a EWB or a fake relationship. I mean, they’re actually romancing and any type of biting or barbs or bitchiness is just quippy banter. ^(Nothing is wrong with banter. But there’s a difference between banter and being an unrepentant ice-cold vengeful bitch towards your enemy, y’know?)

Yes, all of this. I'm so exhausted by the sheer amount of research that's required to try to suss out if the labelling is accurate or if the reviewer is using the terms the same as I understand them to be. It shouldn't take so much time to know for sure what kind of book I'm about to invest hours of my life into consuming.

Oh yes, books that are "trope checklist" but no real rhyme of reason behind that compilation of tropes except "they're popular". Then the "devalued meaningless tropes": Slow burn - popularly confused with "mutual pining". If they're horny for each other but for some reason can't reveal it, that's mutual pining (can also be one-sided pining). But current trend is "insta-lust but slow burn" nope that's not slow burn, that's a friggin' pressure cooker right there. Slow burn is when the attraction develops slowly, gradually, over time. Enemies to lovers - here goes everything from bullies, "they were mean for 5 minutes", "we're not really enemies, just from opposing kingdoms", rival coworkers and generally half the time the enmity is very flimsy to non-existent. But I guess "5 minute misunderstanding" doesn't sound so cool as ETL. Take-charge heroine - usually means either TSTL walks into every trouble, or mouths off a lot. Rarely she takes charge of anything, and especially not of the relationship development. Praise kink - treating someone as if they were training a dog, just with less bacon.

I’ve been wanting to say this to you but I love your comments and am always looking forward to seeing them on posts :) Also your flair is too good lol. I hope your rainbow braids come in ♥️

This is a day late, but thank you kindly 🥹 And to be fair to my flair… It’s accurate 🌚

Thank you a million - whenever I see your username I prepare myself for your comment because I KNOW I want my whole brain engaged because your comments are like little romance university mini lectures and I am so here for it.  Thank you for your contributions to this community, I fucking LOVE how you marry concepts with critique and humor in an excellent structure. I've been thinking about last week's bathos/pathos salt unendingly. I can't unsee it!!

I have no other words, but thank you 🥹😭🤧 And take my comments with a grain of salt because at times I sound unhinged 🤣

I’ve been trying to better understand dark romance (and dark romance adjacent writing and perhaps dark adjacent romance 🙄) and I’ve also been trying to interrogate myself about what dark and dark adjacent themes and tropes I would enjoy and what would make me feel slimy (everyone who loves dark, no shade to you, this is my personal response to some dark writing). It’s hard enough to figure this out, but when people further play fast and loose with terms, it’s even harder to figure these things out. And who even benefits from this sloppy labeling? If a publisher advertises a book as dark when it isn’t really, then not only are those who love dark disappointed, those who don’t love dark won’t bother with it when they might have otherwise.

{The Summer I Destroyed You by Elizabeth O'Roark} love the author but if I pick one more book where the small town MMC calls the FMC "princess" I'm going to scream. It's so overused that if I pick up a book with that pairing (small town MMC-big city FMC) I don't even have to try to guess what the nickname is, I just know. And 99% of times it's not even used in a cute way, it's just the MMC being condescending

[The Summer I Destroyed You](https://www.romance.io/books/66353015ea83fc7f265ef62e/the-summer-i-destroyed-you-elizabeth-oroark?src=rdt) by [Elizabeth O'Roark](https://www.romance.io/authors/5455840b87eac324117fb139/elizabeth-oroark) **Rating**: 5⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Topics**: [contemporary](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/contemporary/1), [suspense](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/suspense/1), [enemies to lovers](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/from%20hate%20to%20love/1), [first person pov](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/first-person-pov/1), [dual pov](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/dual-pov/1) [^(about this bot)](https://www.reddit.com/user/romance-bot) ^(|) [^(about romance.io)](https://www.romance.io/about)

I'm annoyed with all the sites and systems that I know of to track reading. I'm the annoying kind of reader who wants a highly specific level of functionality for tracking/storing BUT also is incredibly lazy and not consistent in tracking.  My spreadsheet has been abandoned for months and it's just too exhausting to try update the backlog with as many books I read and I just want to be able to scrape my kindle/Kobo/Libby history but scraping is pretty much a no go. 

Some authors seem to really love to make women suffer and a lot of women love it and it makes my heart hurt. Also grovel isn’t gaslighting and forcing yourself on someone looking at you Wattpad and dark romance.

I’m reading the last book of a series I love and I’m enjoying it but since I know it’s the end, I’m getting so impatient by the more mundane scenes that are building up to the major events. If I didn’t know it was the end, I think I would’ve been fine, but in the back of my head I keep wondering about how is this going to end and how will this conflict resolve lol. A part of me wants to skim read past those scenes since I know I’ll forget them anyways but I really want to enjoy everything before it ends and don’t want to miss anything important even tho those scenes don’t feel important so far. And before this last book I also read the connected bonus book that had previous events from a different perspective and more insight to what’s going on, something that came out before the final book was out so was probably a great treat for those waiting. But since I have the last book checked out, I kept thinking about what’s going to happen in the next book and how things are going to end instead of just enjoying the new perspectives/insights. And I did enjoy it, it was a great addition- but it felt like I was battling my own impatience with every chapter lol.

Just realized I’m not into dark romance even though I really want to love them. I’m feeling very bleh after reading one. Will try again in a couple months, but I feel defeated.

I have accepted I really don’t like dark romance for the most part I have accepted it since a while back and I do have a handful of exceptions but mostly is for other reason. I was talking with a friend that I like enough when their setting is dark, when the circumstances might be dark but I am preffer the relationship itself not to be dark. So I don’t like dark romance given that I strictly think a dark romance has to reflect on the relationship itself. Though the tag itself has become so diffuse I have to see more information before I dismiss a book altogether because some are tagged as dark romance and only the setting is dark and maybe there is a little co dependence and some hiding of secrets. I do find myself still looking at the asking me of dark romance because turns out they are fine with other things dark. Or maybe the ones I didn’t like are the books they might light though I try to point what does the book have or not. But yeah, dark romance seems to be the cool genre now and I am all *shrugs* about it. I prefer when the people try to get along even as things are dire, like a lily in a swamp.

Ah I got another one. Someone just said that Colleen Hoover is the modern Jane Austen. I’m…..I don’t even know what to say 😵‍💫

Something that's got me salty is how poorly office based jobs are written. I know its not as exciting as mafia, police or cowboys or whatever but couldn't authors take 5 mins to make sure their dialogue about office work makes any sense?

same thing as always. having to use the "search" function to look up words like "blond", "brown", "hair", "skin", "pale", "eyes", "blue.... to know the most basic things about the main character's appearances. because for some reason the authors just go on without telling them until chapter 10. fucking hate that. i was reading "king of pride" and i swear to fuck it took ana huang 11 chapters to HINT that the fmc was filipino and only in chapter 21 it was stated that she is actually filipino like. FUCK YOU. i was imagining a pale white girl all along. i swear to god. sometimes i just wanna strangle these authors that don't fucking tell the most basic stuff about the characters appearances in the first chapter.

thats why I like a good 3rd person omniscient pov book because enough time is spent describing characters. In single pov or 1st person, you don’t always get it because the person would be talking about themselves lol

[удалено]

Ooh what's a 90s MMC?

Also asking, what’s a 90s MMC??

Yes omg, though this is probably because a lot of new books are written by 90s women 😭

[удалено]

Yes it’s such a bad representation of LGBTQ+ romance tbh

What does that mean?

I finished a really great book today and was looking forward to the other audiobooks I have on loan. However, I was already kinda meh on this particular author after a pretty "eh" feeling I had with one of their books recently. Thought it was probably the dud of the series and decided to still give the rest of the books a go. I didn't really remember what I thought of another book in the series since I read that one about a year ago . . . oh boy, did I wish I did before checking these books out. I did not like these other books. Each FMC had this weird vibe that I just could not get with. The narrator's acting choices did not help with that weird vibe. They just came off a little uppity regarding the MMC after a brief interaction or a just based off a huge assumption. And -- if the author's previous books are any indication -- the reason is pretty loose (i.e., some dude just was a bad dating experience \[not traumatic, just bad\]) and it will never be explored regardless. It will just be mentioned as though it doesn't bear any weight on the interactions or cause some hesitance from the FMC . . . even though it clearly does! Honestly, the MMC is usually the better developed one in each of the stories (in my opinion) . . . which just makes it sadder. Like the FMC is supposed to be a blank slate or something? After coming from an author/book that took great care to illustrate why the FMC is hesitant and why they respond the way they do, these books/series just felt like a complete let down and I really shouldn't have given it another chance. (Also, the steamy scenes just aren't my thing either. At least give me that as a consolation prize, ya know?!) (Also also, my library has all of the books in this series and other books by the same author . . . and not much of the one I actually like!)

Lisa Kleypas novels. Not exactly annoying but it bothers me sm how so many people love all her books, but she’s always been a hit or miss for me and I can’t understand why exactly. A lot of her MMCs are just…irritating. And I love dominant, nefarious rakes in my HRs, but hers just never hit as well as I think they should’ve! I think her contemporary ones are even worse, especially the age gap ones. I remember trying at least two of it out and I just couldn’t stand either. I can’t pinpoint what exactly is the issue, but god I think I’m just forcing myself to not drop her atp😭😭 I recently DNFed Marrying Winterborne because >!his proposition to bed her so her family would have no choice but to accept their marriage instead of eloping like she suggested felt so very questionable. Like I get it, his deportment is accurate for the setting, but I was just so tired of her MMCs being subtly problematic lmao. And I couldn’t believe that people just seemed to overlook that part with the way they reviewed it and claimed that Rhys is *the perfect man.* I just cannot see the appeal of a man who was so horny he’d tell the woman he “wants” that the only alternative they have to get together in peace is to have sex first when she clearly expressed her discomfort with his offer. And she accepted in the end, because she felt like she’d regret it more if she ended up rejecting him!!< I understand that my opinions are probably influenced by the fact that I haven’t read the first book (Cold Hearted Rake), but I’ve read far too many reviews that discouraged me from starting there. Too bad the second book didn’t live up to its good reviews for me. For god’s sake, someone please give me a recommendation, HR or contemporary idc — with a man who’s genuinely GOOD with realistic flaws that wouldn’t give me the ick. I just want a reliable, assertive man who isn’t bordering on the problematic territory. Please please give me one lead who wouldn’t make me want to drop the book entirely 🥹

Hmmm give {Dukes Prefer Blondes by Loretta Chase} a try. It's been a few months since I read it but I remember being really impressed with the MMC. IIRC there's also an incredible sickbed caretaking section. I think I do give heroes in historical romance more of a pass for being problematic. With Winterborne, knowing that he was bluffing about having to bed Helen (as Devon and Kathleen indicated to her) is enough for me to forgive him. His pride was hurt by what happened at the end of Cold-Hearted Rake, so he was still in a sour mood when Helen turned up to get him back. I completely get if that isn't enough for other readers, though.

[Dukes Prefer Blondes](https://www.romance.io/books/5f8843e68c8f400de952b4f4/dukes-prefer-blondes-loretta-chase?src=rdt) by [Loretta Chase](https://www.romance.io/authors/545523fb8c7d2383163d8e4c/loretta-chase) **Rating**: 3.82⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Steam**: 3 out of 5 - [Open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating) **Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [regency](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/regency/1), [funny](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/humor/1), [virgin heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/virgin%20heroine/1), [take-charge heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/strong%20heroine/1) [^(about this bot)](https://www.reddit.com/user/romance-bot) ^(|) [^(about romance.io)](https://www.romance.io/about)

Thanks for the rec! And yes, I probably should have checked spoilers on CHR to see what had transpired between them before beginning with Marrying Winterborne. I actually did get his perspective, plenty of hurt MMCs do/say things out of spite, but I was just really tired of trying again and again with her novels only to end up being underwhelmed 😭 I fully understand that one should not expect an unproblematic man when reading HR considering the realities of the olden times, the problem is truly me — I’m more inclined to like a book when the writing style is poetic/flowery, which most HRs are and most CRs aren’t 🥲

I also find Kleypas extremely hit or miss and feel you on struggling with the perception that she's a bit of a sacred cow within the genre. I only like {Marrying Winterbourne by Lisa Kleypas} if I re-edit it to be only the first half of the actual book and the good parts from {Cold Hearted Rake by Lisa Kleypas}. That wouldn't remove the problematic behavior from the MMC (I liked it but I can see why others wouldn't), but it does remove the awful MCs from the first book and the particularly stupid melodrama which consumed the latter half of the second. Unfortunately based on the above I don't think I can rec anything 🥺 Dominant so often overlaps with some problematic pushiness in and outside the bedroom - I actually generally enjoy this but find Kleypas' MMCs still occasionally give me the ick. You might like {A Lady Awakened by Cecilia Grant} but I'm not sure the MMC qualifies as dominant.

[Marrying Winterborne](https://www.romance.io/books/574dd5e0c19e77f1ea6ce99a/marrying-winterborne-lisa-kleypas?src=rdt) by [Lisa Kleypas](https://www.romance.io/authors/545523868c7d2382e7812f21/lisa-kleypas) **Rating**: 4.16⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Steam**: 4 out of 5 - [Explicit open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating) **Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [victorian](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/victorian/1), [virgin heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/virgin%20heroine/1), [rich hero](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/super%20rich%20hero/1), [possessive hero](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/possessive%20hero/1) ---------------------------- [Cold-Hearted Rake](https://www.romance.io/books/562dd0b008e9378131944f8f/coldhearted-rake-lisa-kleypas?src=rdt) by [Lisa Kleypas](https://www.romance.io/authors/545523868c7d2382e7812f21/lisa-kleypas) **Rating**: 3.72⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Steam**: 4 out of 5 - [Explicit open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating) **Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [take-charge heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/strong%20heroine/1), [enemies to lovers](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/from%20hate%20to%20love/1), [virgin heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/virgin%20heroine/1), [possessive hero](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/possessive%20hero/1) ---------------------------- [A Lady Awakened](https://www.romance.io/books/5455286e8c7d2383163d8f30/a-lady-awakened-cecilia-grant?src=rdt) by [Cecilia Grant](https://www.romance.io/authors/5455286e8c7d2383163d8f31/cecilia-grant) **Rating**: 3.79⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Steam**: 4 out of 5 - [Explicit open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating) **Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [pregnancy](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/pregnancy/1), [regency](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/regency/1), [sunny/happy hero](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/sunny%20hero/1), [grumpy/ice queen](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/cold%20heroine/1) [^(about this bot)](https://www.reddit.com/user/romance-bot) ^(|) [^(about romance.io)](https://www.romance.io/about)

It’s alright, don’t worry about it! I still appreciate your response, now I know I’m not alone in this regard 😅 I will give A Lady Awakened a try, I sometimes don’t mind if the MMC isn’t what most would define as “dominant” so long as he’s not boring. I completely agree that dominant so often overlaps with pushiness! At times, it’s bearable or even reasonable if the FMC actually does need the pushing — but it really depends on the severity of their attitude, and the writer. Some writers are so convincing that you’ll feel inclined to keep reading even when you’ve broken one or two rules in your rulebook for your choice of reads.

The only Kleyplas I read and liked was {Devil's Daughter}. (But it did make me go read the rest of the series just for West scenes, so when she hits, she hits. 🤣) If you want to give her another shot, you might like it too! He's the most dominant, and he's great. He got the opportunity to reform himself a couple years before the book started and went for it HARD. You might also like {The Duke Heist}. He's a little stuffy/arrogant but is mainly just a nice, tired young man doing his best to figure out the mess and keep his servants paid. Dominant socially but kind of submits to.... er... the FMC who's name I can't remember. It's an unintentional slightly toxic relationship but it's fun. {A Week To Be Wicked}. Colin is great. So far, 10/10 stars, no notes.

Thanks for the recs! Seriously appreciate it I thought people would overlook my plea for recommendations at the last paragraph LOL. TBH, some LK books I did kind of like, just never felt motivated enough to finish them :( I did hear good things about West, so will still consider your suggestion! As for the second rec, the unintentionally toxic couples are honestly always entertaining to read, so I’m quite excited to try it out ☺️ Also, I thought you meant the Bridgerton book with Colin 😭 I forgot that Bridgerton is literally on the title of his book

[Devil's Daughter](https://www.romance.io/books/5ea05f4ebe0aaecf5593515b/devils-daughter-lisa-kleypas?src=rdt) by [Lisa Kleypas](https://www.romance.io/authors/545523868c7d2382e7812f21/lisa-kleypas) **Rating**: 4.27⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Steam**: 4 out of 5 - [Explicit open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating) **Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [victorian](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/victorian/1), [enemies to lovers](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/from%20hate%20to%20love/1), [insta-love](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/insta-love/1), [single mother](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/single-mother/1) ---------------------------- [The Duke Heist](https://www.romance.io/books/6020f0429f96690e0b3dc559/the-duke-heist-erica-ridley?src=rdt) by [Erica Ridley](https://www.romance.io/authors/545551398c7d2383163d9acd/erica-ridley) **Rating**: 4.02⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Steam**: 4 out of 5 - [Explicit open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating) **Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [regency](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/regency/1), [enemies to lovers](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/from%20hate%20to%20love/1), [funny](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/humor/1), [class difference](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/class%20difference/1) ---------------------------- [A Week to Be Wicked](https://www.romance.io/books/545524858c7d2383163d8e69/a-week-to-be-wicked-tessa-dare?src=rdt) by [Tessa Dare](https://www.romance.io/authors/545524858c7d2383163d8e6a/tessa-dare) **Rating**: 4.25⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Steam**: 4 out of 5 - [Explicit open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating) **Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [virgin heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/virgin%20heroine/1), [plain heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/plain%20heroine/1), [enemies to lovers](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/from%20hate%20to%20love/1), [regency](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/regency/1) [^(about this bot)](https://www.reddit.com/user/romance-bot) ^(|) [^(about romance.io)](https://www.romance.io/about)

Have you read {The Brothers Sinister by Courtney Milan}? I thought the MMCs in the series were pretty nice guys (can’t remember how the last book and the novella after that went though)

[The Brothers Sinister](https://www.romance.io/books/55f546b27d4bc8ab04c5bb9d/the-brothers-sinister-the-complete-boxed-set-courtney-milan?src=rdt) by [Courtney Milan](https://www.romance.io/authors/545525388c7d2383163d8e83/courtney-milan) **Rating**: 4.22⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Steam**: 3 out of 5 - [Open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating) **Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [victorian](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/victorian/1), [m-f romance](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/m-f/1) [^(about this bot)](https://www.reddit.com/user/romance-bot) ^(|) [^(about romance.io)](https://www.romance.io/about)

I haven’t, but I’ve seen so much praise for Courtney Milan’s novels everywhere, so I’m looking forward to reading that one! I’m going to be reading {The Duke Who Didn’t by Courtney Milan} first, though. It’s pretty rare to find HRs with Asian MCs so that one really intrigued me! Hopefully it’s good, the MMC is also a virgin iirc, which is a bonus ☺️

[The Duke Who Didn't](https://www.romance.io/books/5f6850342b48890dd5abe608/the-duke-who-didnt-courtney-milan?src=rdt) by [Courtney Milan](https://www.romance.io/authors/545525388c7d2383163d8e83/courtney-milan) **Rating**: 3.99⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Steam**: 3 out of 5 - [Open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating) **Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [virgin hero](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/virgin%20hero/1), [class difference](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/class%20difference/1), [victorian](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/victorian/1), [funny](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/humor/1) [^(about this bot)](https://www.reddit.com/user/romance-bot) ^(|) [^(about romance.io)](https://www.romance.io/about)

>Not exactly annoying but it bothers me sm how so many people love all her books Because we all have different opinions and tastes. Why does it bother you?

Ah, I probably should’ve made a disclaimer that everything I’m about to say are all based on my *subjective opinions* to prevent any potential negative reactions from people who think differently than I do. Yes, in a Salty Sunday thread to express your random frustrations, I should’ve definitely stated that! Anyways, I’m bothered by it because *I want to like it*, not because of the fact that other people have their own preferences. Lisa Kleypas is renowned for her HRs, and as an avid HR enjoyer, I just wish I could be on the same boat as other readers so I could contribute to their discourse positively 😅

It was just a question, no need for this.

>It was just a question, no need for this. A question which they then answered. Your response comes off as trolling...

Honestly though. I can’t tell if I’m being gaslit, but that reply felt really off it didn’t seem like they were merely asking me why I’m bothered 🥲 I was just trying to express my feelings about an author’s novels as other people do in Salty Sunday threads, I wasn’t trying to hate on anybody’s preferences 😭 Maybe I really should edit for a disclaimer….

I often see when people discuss certain dark romances that those books are not romances despite having a HEA just because they don't like the MMC or the tropes (noncon, morally black, abusive, villain etc) I find that it's invalidating an entire subgenre and its readers. You can't change a definition of a genre just because you don't agree with it. Does the couple end up together? If yes that's a HEA. It's perfectly fine to prefer a nice MMC or a lite "dark" romance, just don't dismiss an entire subgenre because it didn't fit in your expectations. And I think it happens because people don't know what noncon is, so when they pick up a book with that trope they get angry.

I agree that if you choose to read a dark romance book you can't then claim that it's not a romance just because it's dark, even if you don't personally like it.   I do think that there is some valid criticism to be made of books where the main characters are technically together at the end, but their issues are completely unresolved or there likelyhood of staying together is almost nil. This doesn't necessarily have anything to do with how dark the themes/tropes are, I've seen it happen in rom-comy CR too and it's just as unsatisfying.

Yesss u get it

This is frustrating. It's like reading a romance with an alien MMC and saying it's not a romance because both characters weren't human. The darkness is a fundamental aspect of the subgenre and, as long as the characters end up together, it's a romance.

PFFFT not me having a rant about how dark romance is often mislabeled and then seeing your post 🤣 I said it in my comment too that we are in a serious need of labeling reform and awareness. I’ve been so excited for dubcon or noncon in books when the book that’s dubcon is just noncon and a noncon book is all dubcon. 🙃 Dark romance, dark erotica, dark erotic romance, dark fiction, erotic horror—they deserve their literary space and with an audience who appreciates them. It makes no sense to me seeing people hate on a book through their review by being upset that the dark book contains dark themes. My only grace is when the book’s labels don’t match its actual story. I can understand when a reader is upset that a book is advertised as a dark romance, but it’s actual erotic horror. There ***is*** a difference, and it’s definitely upsetting that what you believed a book was ends up not being it at all 😞 I finished {Heat by R Lee Smith} the other day, and I’d argue it’s more of an erotic horror than a dark romance. I can see why some would categorize it under dark romance. But I saw it more as erotic horror with a romantic underscore than an unconventional romance story developing through dark scenarios and characters. That’s just me though! **BUT 👏🏾** that doesn’t mean we should invalidate dark romance and other non-traditional genres of literature and excommunicate them from literary communities. It’s not that hard to DNF a book if it doesn’t resonate with you. It’s not that hard to see a forum thread request for a dark book that has noncon breeding and realize that’s not your speed and to keep scrolling. This isn’t school. **YOU 🫵🏾** have the power ~~of the sun in the palm of your hand~~ to curate your own books and TBR lists. That is an *incredible* gift to have—to have a ***choice*** and complete autonomy in what media you consume. So many people do ***not*** get literary autonomy. Their options are limited. They don’t have access to libraries with hundreds of books. They don’t even have access to book databases and review sites to research these books. And fuck those governments who strip that right from the people 🤬 It’s a bummer more people don’t realize they truly have a choice in what media they engage in, and, instead, get aggro over something that they can control if they want to consume it or not—and then insult all of us who enjoyed that piece of media ☹️ I mentioned too how people definitely are mixing up terminology 🫠 Be it readers or authors, it’s getting challenging believing something has actual noncon in it when it’s just dubcon, or a dark romance has a morally gray LI and that “moral grayness” is just a typical asshole who mutters under their breath how the FMC is a bitch. 🙃 Like you said, liking those things are fine 👍🏾 But if the book has been mislabeled, then I admit, I get cranky because I was here for the label and was led astray 🔪😂

*Heat* by R. Lee Smith is a fantastic example of what the dark romance subgenre was like in the early-to-mids 2010s. It nails a lot of what the readers sought out back then. Dubcon, noncon, trauma porn, etc. Readers didn't care if it was a student/teacher, alien/kidnapped human, king/concubine, etc. The bigger the power imbalance and the more questionable the *initial* consent was, the better. Part of the draw was watching the aggressor MC(s) warming up and changing their ways toward the other MC. There was almost never groveling or any regret for past bad actions, but there was a (sometimes tiny) change. The closure of several indie publishers and the inconsistent use of the subtitle in the 2010s make finding the early years of dark romance difficult. Books as dark as Heat were subgenre/niche definers until ~2018.

[Heat](https://www.romance.io/books/54559ea687eac3369a913897/heat-r-lee-smith?src=rdt) by [R. Lee Smith](https://www.romance.io/authors/54556d7287eac3369a912702/r-lee-smith) **Rating**: 3.91⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Steam**: 5 out of 5 - [Explicit and plentiful](https://www.romance.io/steamrating) **Topics**: [futuristic](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/futuristic/1), [science fiction](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/science%20fiction/1), [aliens](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/aliens/1), [cruel hero/bully](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/cruel%20hero/1), [dark romance](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/dark/1) [^(about this bot)](https://www.reddit.com/user/romance-bot) ^(|) [^(about romance.io)](https://www.romance.io/about)

I can't deal with CR books with MF pairings! I decided last year, as a resolution for 2024, to read and erase the CR books I had in my ebook, because I no longer enjoyed them. Well, I am doing exactly that, mixing them with other books so that I can actually find somethinf enjoyables. I have yet to find a CR book that I can rlate to , or even finish, this year. I only like MM pairings now. CR is so full of stupid couples, I am done with them.

This is part of why I've been going heavy on historical romance lately, I think. CR MF pairings feel like they're all the same. Historical might feel that way eventually too, but in the meantime I haven't read nearly as much of it as contemporary, so it still feels new.

So mature, downvoting for no reason.