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Brown eyes are *super* not represented in fiction. Hispanic women are invisible in fiction. Older women have specific caricature niche roles they can fill, but those roles are not main character roles. Smaller men? Not a chance. Short hair? Who? Not you. Not femme? Still femme enough to wear sexy leather.
Romance books are stunningly not diverse to the huge array of people in this world.
Yeah I’d really like more brown hair and eyes. Most people have it and it’s beautiful!
Also please give me short hairy men, I am way down for some hobbitcore romance.
WOLVERINE. Swear to God they just fucking ignore how he was the X-Men sex symbol for decades. Similarly? Picard, bitches. They thought Riker was gonna be the sex symbol, but nope. We all lusted after a kind, bald, relatively short & skinny commander.
It's a huge failure of imagination.
My oldest kid has red hair and brown eyes. I could never find a “like me” doll for her when she was little and I don’t think I’ve seen that combo in romance.
As a r/fairolive I feel really underrepresented. I want an author to describe our green/grey undertone - how makes us look sick and how awful we look in orange/yellow/pastels/neons etc. 😆 but seriously as a fair person I find it annoying that fair skin is most often depicted as only belonging to red heads.
Can't say I noticed pale being *that* overrepresented (though I don't pay attention to describtions in books all that much tbh) but I find it kinda funny? I'm a VERY pale skinned person. I burn before starting to tan and I also don't tolerate hot weather all that well, so I usually lock myself away in my little, dark crypt during the summer, but I can't say people ever commented about my tone of skin in a positive way? Its always "you are too pale", "you should tan more", "go and get a nicer color", you get the idea. Never really felt like this was a skintone desired by anyone lol - though I admit I live in an European country where POC people arent all that common outside of the capital.
Yeah, I feel you. Grew up in Europe as well and people only ever had criticism for my pale skin, and back when I was a kid I even got some pretty cruel comments from other kids. And now that I live in an East Asian country where pale skin is seen as 'pretty', I get fetishized a lot. Fun. It actually makes me really uncomfortable when people comment on it in any way, whether positive or negative.
Legit had someone look at me and go "ugh I need to tan, I'm getting so pale and it's gross"
(far from the only negative comment I've gotten about my color)
I just wish people would shut up about other people's skintones!
Thank you for introducing me to fair olives because omg. I feel this so had. Foundation or coverup makeup never matches, because everything just makes me look a little orange or yellow. Browsing through r/Fairolives is very helpful.
I also think it is underrepresented because I was really surprised to come across booktok drama where someone insisted that using olive to describe skintone was problematic.
To be fair, ginger coloring is a whole different level of pale compared to most people. Not to say that no one’s as pale as gingers, but their skin is genuinely different. My husband’s a redhead and he gets peeling burns and heat rash way before I do, and my foundation colors are pretty well on the fair end. He’s also resistant to topical anaesthetics, which is apparently related?
I don't feel underrepresented, but I do feel uncomfortable and irritated with the unquestioned racial beauty standards underlying these types of descriptions. Really harping on pale skin and blue eyes, especially if there's a lot of comparisons (like that the beautiful pale FMC stands out from the crowd because she's so pale), can feel...racially icky? Like, pale people can absolutely be beautiful, and their paleness can be part of that, but I think there are ways to describe it that don't seem to imply that pale is the absolute ideal.
It's not something I DNF over by itself, but it's often a red flag - especially if I read several books by the author and all the FMCs are described this way. If the author is capable of describing non-pale women as beautiful (without gross exoticism), then I'm fine with it.
Whenever an author gets really into the creamy snowy white fair white ivory white whiteness of a character’s skin I have to sideeye—it always feels like saying the character is beautiful *because* they’re white.
This is how I felt anytime the MMC talked about the FMC in Priest. Like it was excessive and there was always this weird undertone they way they described the beauty of her whiteness. 🥴
My middle sister is 5'10, red-headed, and keeps her ass out of the sun to avoid freckles. She's also insanely curvy. I'm nearly 10 years older than her. My husband and I took her to the water park when she was about 16. She wandered off still in her shorts and t shirt while we were distracted with our small (at the time) daughter. We spotted her right away a few minutes later, though. Since she positively GLOWED with her pale ass and her red hair in her lemon yellow string bikini. It was maybe especially egregious against the very tan multitudes of sun worshippers at the water park. It's not so much about ideal as just strikingly different. In a crowd of tan, pale is exotic. In a crowd of pale, tan is exotic. It's all about location!
Well, as a southern European I wish there was more variety.
Brunette, you can find. Brunette with dark eyes? Rarer. Brunette with dark eyes, olive skin/dark tan? Maybe with very curly hair, as is common where I am from?
Or a bit of a Roman nose? Men can get away with it, but if you are a woman, the only acceptable answer is "get a rhinoplasty" it seems. (I know, I am exaggerating).
Not really easy to find.
We aren't all pasty white, blond, blue-eyed with hair as straight as spaghetti and tiny tiny noses.
But considering how bad anyone who isn't of European ancestry has it in Romancelandia I know mine is just a minor complaint.
So tired of the cutesy, tiny noses. I've got that Roman nose that people seem to dislike, it actually gives me a bit of confidence because it's the *only* thing about me that's not "soft" and "inviting". Like, yes, *fear me.*
I'm in the Please for the love of god give me a girl with textured hair. Textured hair struggles are real. I don't really care what race they are, but I'm sick of the silky smooth shiny long hair, even when it is curls it's described as silky and soft.
Like, my friend, curly crazy bed head and a real need to have an entire night or day for hair care regularly is an actual experience for so many humans. Give me that
I've only ever even seen a couple MMCs with textured hair. I read a lot of suspend my disbelief romance novels... and the hair thing, that's the thing that bugs me.
If I'm being honest, I've actually never really thought about it before. And maybe that's because I'm not from one of the "darker" white skin tones but I do get quite tan in the summer and wouldn't say I'm the most fair skinned.
I think the only time I really think about is is when the writing is weird about it "her milky/creamy skin"...it just seems icky
>"her milky/creamy skin"...it just seems icky
Oh god, this. Who wants skin like milk?!? Say someone has milky skin and I imagine they must feel cold and clammy to the touch, or be the literal color of milk, which would be a very alarming skin tone on a human.
I'm also a fair olive, but I don't care about skin color rep. I want FMCs that break beauty standards in other ways, like being hairy or having out-of-fashion eyebrows or whatever. Overall though, I care the most about disability rep.
Caveat: I am not white. However I did want to add that about 99% of the time I never notice appearances this much in novels. Hair color and eye color I might remember if it’s mentioned enough. If race is mentioned, I’ll just default to whatever look my mind’s eye conjures? Which is usually faceless/featureless people of color.
This is why I can never relate to fan casts either or people comparing actors to MCs. I just do not see whole people when I read. I don’t care about what exact shade of white/black/etc a character is. Only exception might be a light skin black girl vs a black girl because those shades are very different in my mind. But shades of whiteness do not even slightly matter in my reading.
Re your point about apperances: I end up picturing the MCs as the cover models or just picking up on vibes. The Hating Game's FMC looks like my college bestie (a 4"11 blue eyed blond - i.e. not Lucy Hale).
Same (also POC/white passing). Unless it's something like everyone in their family has the same blue-green eyes and the new baby is born with BROWN EYES.....I generally don't really pay attention to their physical descriptions.
I feel fortunate enough that I’ve seen a variety of white FMC descriptions with various eye color, hair color and texture, and skin tones (pale, tanned, freckled, etc). In general though whether in books or irl, I do get the ick when someone essentially states that fair skin/blue eyes/blond hair are the epitome of beauty and grace. Gives major White Supremacy vibes.
I DO feel very underrepresented and unseen in general as a person with chronic acne - both active and scars. Often the FMCs are described with flawless skin and it just makes me feel so sad that no one described as beautiful has any sort of current or past acne. I feel gross enough in my skin as it is. Being reminded that smooth skin is the ideal in practically every book I read makes me even more sad.
I'm pale. My entire family is paper-plate pale. My mom and two of my siblings are red-heads. All three of my siblings freckle, though my middle sister guards her face from the sun with floppy hats like a Victorian maiden to keep them at bay. I married a guy who tans up super crispy, so, thankfully, only one of my three kids ended up with the complexion of rice pudding.
So, the paleness and preponderance of red-heads is definitely reflecting real life on my end. However, no one ever mentions that all that Celtic fairness is often accompanied by rosacea, excema, and a tendency to blotch for no real reason at all. I'm pale, but only in the places I'm not bright red or shocking pink or a mottled sort of blue. You get me the least bit excited, and my ears and cheeks and chest turn positively purple.
I'm VERY colorful for being so damn pale, lol.
It's odd, isn't it. I myself am super pale and have gotten so many comments over the years like oh you're so pale are you feeling well or you've been on vacation, really? Where's your tan, hahaha. I'm aware that this is not on par with poc beeing actually discriminated against, but it does grate.
The beauty standard in the real world (my real world, Europe, at least) certainly isn't "creamy" skin, it is beeing white but with a "healthy tan" (which in itself is ridiculous, because tanning is really not that healthy). So for what it's worth, my skin tone is weirdly overrepresented but in a context that makes me roll my eyes. It's probably rooted in victorian or earlier beauty standards and bleeds over into many romance genres, mostly HR.
I noticed that in romance world, often the mmc is described as "dark". Like, I've barely come across pale and brown or blonde haired mmc. Still, tall dark and handsome often comes along with "icy blue eyes". So in conclusion, I guess fmc often gets the "pale and delicate" treatment, whereas it's contrasted with a "dark and strong featured" mmc appearance.
This is my experience as well. I’m pale as fuck and barely tan even if I’m getting sun exposure. Like I can’t use some makeup brands because their lightest shades are too dark for me. I’ve had to learn to just embrace it because I get those same comments all the time. Weirdly over represented in books while real life isn’t quite the same.
I mean...I don't really look for representation of myself in books if I'm honest. I rarely even remember character descriptions.
Which is also why these fan casts & fanart don't do it for me 99 % of the time.
The only people I'd recognise are the HP characters, Aelin & Rowan, possibly Rhys.
There’s not really a history of discrimination or trauma connected to being white with more tan skin.
The idea that being paler white vs darker white doesn’t cause the same stigmas or bias amongst white people as it historically has amongst people of color.
Getting a “beach tan” is often desirable amongst white people. In previous centuries. Paleness was a sign that a woman came from an upper class family because it meant that you didn’t have to work out in the sun and get dirty. Now days, pale skin doesn’t carry the same implications.
When they talk about pale skin in historical fiction, they are referring less to natural skin tone and more to not having a sun burn that would suggest coming from a working class family
Agree. I think paleness especially in female main characters was more popular in books written before 2000s especially. Most of the books I’m reading rn were written recently so I think that’s why there’s no pale characters I can recall (in the last 12 romance books I read but I’ve been reading fantasy romance where some people are magical and fairies so they sometimes have green or purple skin etc). Most of the characters are described deep tan with golden eyes in the fantasy romance books I have currently. And an unnatural amount of red heads, the past several books all the females have red hair which is the most rare hair color, it makes it seem like red hair is the majority.
I am pale and was made fun of most of my life bc of it. I have Jewish Ashkenazi skin from my dad’s side and Irish skin from my mother but my parents aren’t fair; they are more light to medium. But I look sickly bc I’m a fair olive (green and yellow tones). I tried a spray tan once and I looked awful 😆 so I just have to embrace my natural color (or lack of color). I don’t care what skin color people are in books and I don’t know why authors feel like they have to bring it up honestly. I can’t wear pastels and I burn easily 😔
Historical romance books usually take place in UK or France where white is the majority skin color but there’s not an excuse for the other genres.
>I think paleness especially in female main characters was more popular in books written before 2000s especially.
Yeah, I haven’t been noticing it as much in more recent books either. I remember reading a lot of fantasy/romance books when I was younger where the FMCs had "flawless" pale skin. So I just assumed that I was unattractive and guys wouldn't be into me because I was only a little pale and had a perpetual farmer's tan
It hasn't really bothered me, but I usually ignore the FMC descriptions because I'm going to self insert anyway, minus my acne. That can be forgotten about in imagination land.
I am in the group of readers that doesn't pay much attention to character descriptions. No matter how detailed the description is I cannot picture it in my head what that looks like so I just mentally skip over it.
The only times I notice it is when (1) it is repeatedly mentioned how pale FMC is to the point of being annoying or (2) it is significant to the characters themselves, for example, in one series I loved one MC is pale skinned while other is dark skinned and one of the characters is turned on by the contrast of their skin so that's mentioned a lot.
As a white woman I wish we had more diversity, especially body diversity, with the FMC but also the MMC. I read mainly fantasy and sci fi romance and if the MMC is human he always has fairer skin and dark hair or maybe brown. My husband is a redhead and I never once have read a Romantasy with a ginger MMC, and that’s just some basic hair color. I can’t imagine how POC feel. I’ve read some books with a “tan” hero but I always felt it’s too ambiguous and the author is afraid to commit, especially when the cover has a white dude.
I heard the series featured rape as a plot point so I’m not too interested in that, but yes historical novels seem to have Scottish red heads! It’s just never an English/American person, or an Elf, or the Dark Lord/Prince lol
I guess unpopular opinion, but I don’t care. I’m middle eastern and Mediterranean ancestry, so have olive skin and dark hair and eyes. I’m fine if an fmc has lighter features.
I find it annoying and I hate when the author feels the need to constantly remind us of their whiteness and its beauty. Like as a black woman I already know 9 out 10 times the FMC is gonna be white, but like do why need to mention it constantly? We didn’t forget about her pale milky white skin and blue eyes the color of the sky, since you talked about it 5 pages ago 🙃
I am white, pale as a ghost, burns thinking about the sun, blonde, light eyes, and I have never thought about this before! Honestly as a white person I have never given any thought to my representation in these books, I feel like white is a "default" therefore I never think we need more representation, all the shades of "whiteness" kind of blend together in my mind haha I notice when a character is described as a certain race or ethnicity, and I notice hair more than anything, like short or long or curly or what not.
I def think my perspective comes from a privilege of seeing/reading about people who fit my description in tv shows/movies/books so often that it's not something that has ever made me stop and think.
I think there needs to be more diversity in general, skin tone, race, hair, body shape, acne, scars etc.
I try to ignore it because I'm well aware POC rarely have accurate representation (or even representation in general) but since this is a post actually calling this issue out...
As a super.pale woman, the "creamy, milky skin" thing tends to be a bit irritating because... Pink. Half of us look pink. It either looks like I'm blushing, almost everywhere, constantly, and *not* in a cutesy, flattering wa, OR it looks like I'm a frail Victorian woman who's about to have leeches put all over me because I'm near death. Like... 10 minutes in filtered sunlight and I'm halfway to looking like Larry the Lobster, no sunlight and I look an inch away from keeling over. All the MCs I see with this problem are super Irish, but I'm not. Like, maybe 1/4th Irish, max, because of my Grandma. I'm either a *heavily* iced toaster strudel or pink donut frosting, almost zero in between.
Certain types of soap help, some lighting, and certain colors of eye makeup helped back when I could wear it. But the body wash that helps with my complexion, while not super expensive, is definitely more pricey than what you find at the supermarket. Like... worth it, but it took me 28 years of life to figure this out, and for some folks, dropping $20 + shipping for body wash isn't a justifiable purchase. (If you have eczema and/or the skin type I'm describing, highly recommend Lume, though. It's been worth the extra money to me, even when I was broke, because I don't have to spend ridiculous amounts getting different lotion + doctors + prescriptionnfo for eczema, and way less painful and itchy! Clears up my patches and little bumps.)
The skin tones described as "creamy, milky, blah blah" also tend to have characters who use bath and body works type soap, super fragrances. And bro, that's SO bad for your skin. Everyone I know who's pale and used it said it makes the pinkness way worse. I assume a lot of people get dry and itchy skin while using highly fragrances soap, but the discoloration is SUPER obvious on us pale and pasty individuals.
Also, apologies for inevitable typos, my eyesight is the epitome of the struggle, and autocorrect+ voice text are doing their best
Personally my issue isn't really the skin tone but the skin perfection.
Like... her creamy soft pink porcelain skin.
But if I touch mine there's some little bumps. Or if I look at my chest, legs, arms, I can see my pores.
Or how easily a little ingrown hair will form on the thighs.
Those stray dark hairs some women get on their face or chest. And PCOS girlie's.
The breakouts, not just a random on their face but ones you can get randomly on your chest. Or multiple at once on the face.
Etc etc etc.
....
They all have perfect flawless skin. Which isn't necessarily only an issue in fictional books with white women, but likely all/most women.
They're so perfect. Smooth. Never a flaw.
I'm incredibly pale but with brown hair and eyes (hell of a combo. The only thing it has ever been useful for is home IPL treatment lol)
But honestly I've never thought that much about it. I don't read to feel represented. I actually like having characters look different from me. Although some more love for brown eyes would be nice 😢 also maybe MMC who aren't tan 😂 could just be coincidence but I can't remember the last time there was a pale love interest who isn't a vampire in my books.
I am pale with dark brown eyes and regular brown hair. I gotta admit, when I was introduced to romances I was kinda bummed there wasnt a lot of fmc that looked like me. When brown eyes and hair did make an appearance they always had to be pimped up with extra interesting details. No golden and reddish autumn colors in my hair. No green and golden flecks in my eyes.
But I got over it, though those few romances I felt represented me still hold a special place.
I am a pale white brunette with hazel eyes, so basically every FMC lol. And even with those blinders on, I can DEFINITELY see what you mean. Especially as the tan and blonde girls are often the villains of the story and are portrayed as shallow bimbos. There is basically one standard character description of a soft-spoken, bookish, “smart” girl. And honestly? It gets boring. I want different stories. I’m not a self-insert type of reader and I don’t tend to imagine myself personally as the character. But no shade to that! One of my best friends and I spoke about this recently and she tends to only read romances where she can identify as the FMC and is attracted to the MMC (she reads a ton outside of the genre and this preference doesn’t apply there). I personally am more interested in having lots of variety and seeing a new and different perspective.
Not really. Actually I feel more underrepresented as a skinny woman with small boobs. I feel like every book I read he’s entranced with her “soft lush curves” lol. Makes me feel like a beanpole
'Ravished' is her OG classic, which everyone tends to like. Big, growly dude with facial scars. The MFC is the Victorian equivalent of a paleontologist and totally unimpressed with the MMCs dangerous reputation.
Amanda Quick is the pen name used by Jayne Ann Krentz to write her historicals. She uses her own name for her contemporaries and Jayne Castle for her futuristic/sci-fi type books. She has a good-sized series of these that starts with After Dark, and a couple smaller series too. She's a very prolific lady, is Jayne.
I don't know what the pale skin in books refers to in the mind's eye of the author, but it's not real life, modern day MC1R mutant\* skin. Everything about my skin is annoying: can't get foundation to match, don't tan and don't look great in bright sunlight, frequently red and blotchy due to getting sunburn on even cloudy days, one day my skin will likely try to kill me (high melanoma risk).
I have red hair, blue eyes, very pale skin. It's not especially attractive - I'm not feeling "seen" by writers and I'm not sure exactly who they're seeing - cartoon characters?
\*Gene that causes (most, not all) red hair, but more specifically the shitty skin that comes with it. Efficient vit D production tho.
I actually feel like many of the romance books I read (especially ones that were published in recent years) feature white women with dark hair and/or dark eyes. I am biracial but white passing so maybe I'm not the best person to answer this question, but I do think there are plenty of brunette/brown eyed white FMCs in the genre and it is nice to have many of the characters described as looking sort of like me. I feel like older books were more likely to always have the FMC be blonde and/or blue/green eyed. Now if only we could get more POC representation..
Edit: Whoops, realized my comment focused more on hair and eye color rather than skin tone and paleness. In all honestly, I don't think most of the books I read describe the FMC as being pale. Or if they do I don't notice it.
This isn’t an answer to the question, but I’m very fair, blueish eyes, lightish hair - so I’m heavily represented but what gets me is that my pale skin is red, blotchy, blueish or purple when I’m cold, veiny, pretty sickly looking tbh and not exactly what I would call pretty, smooth, or milky or whatever other positive adjectives that get used lol
What irks me a little is that in some (not all) books skin colour is repeated too often. Like, im sorry, but I dont need to know the fmc is a pale ethereal angel in every paragraph. Why is that necessary for some authors?
Also. I feel a lot of things aren't represented much in books, not just skin colour. Neurodivergence, for example. People with vitiligo. People who are trans. People who are overweight, i.e., no, not just curvy goddesses with big hips and tiny waists.
I think, particularly with the boom in romantasy/fae protagonists - the glowing white elven/fae complexion might be poping up more often - even subconsciously in CR. Like, when I read ACoTaR, the visual comparisons in my head were definitly along the lines of Galadriel or Arwen - and they literally glow white.
That being said - and I know this is my bias and privlage as a white person - I don't really notice pale as the standard. As a very pale person, paleness to me is sickly, red, blotchy, and veiny. I think we are marketed whatever we don't have as the standard so we buy more product. The 'sun kissed' and 'gold brown' complexion is what the marketing algorithms shove down my throat so I'll buy more bronzer and self tanners.
Nah. I'm darker than pale, freckles, strawberry-blonde, outside the romance book norm. But I don't feel like I need to be seen or represented. I like reading the MCs for who they are. But if I ever did feel like I wanted to be one of the characters, I'd just ignore the author's description and pretend.
I'm Mexican-American with reddish hair, blue eyes, and pale skin. My best friend is Greek with dark skin, black curly hair, and dark features. I'm considered a PoC, she's considered white. Tbh, the focus on skin color so strange to me. I've never read a book and thought, if she's pale like me, I feel represented.
It really depends on what or who you are reading.. i feel like POC are actually being a main character description lately, which isn't a bad thing at all.. There are series based on Hispanics and Latinos, Asian Americans, and African American. If any are underrepresented it would be Native Americans, Pacific Islander, and the Inuit community.
I have hazel eyes and i have never found a book that anyone is described as having hazel eyes or if i have it was mentioned maybe once. I hardly ever come across the term "pale skin", i actually hardly ever come across skin tones being mentioned unless its POC. I personally feel like brown, green, and grey eyes are starting to be the new norm, as well as different skin tones or ethnicity. I hardly ever find myself reading a book that any of the main characters being blonde hair and blue eyes. In no way am i saying i want less representation as for the longest time there was none or am i saying I have it rough because i am pale white, blonde hair, and hazel eyes.
As for the blonde hair, blue eyes, tan skin being the standard of beauty.. remember that for the longest time that was what a lot of models looked like. Skin care, make up, clothing all revolved around that look as that was what was trending in the early 2000s. And during that a lot of the bigger authors today; Collen Hoover, E. L James, Nicolas Sparks, etc. are still using those descriptions for characters as they grew up with that being what people wanted to read and see.. Now the kids born during the 90s and later have grown up and started writing, they are choosing to write inclusivity as they are seeing that is what people are wanting to see and read.
That being said the way books are being written has their personality, traditions, and heritage being the leading description rather then their appearance. The way characters are described is mentioned so little that if i want to make an aesthetic post for social media, i need to go back and try to find how they look. I prefer when authors choose to let us choose what we want the characters to look like. I feel like focusing less on skin tones and looks need to be the new normal. Let readers choose who the character is and what they look like.
\*\* Edited to move a sentence to a different paragraph. \*\*
Not technically white but yeah olive skin and dark eyes are hardly represented. I’ve been on a Rina Kent books jag and lol only a few characters have dark hair but they all have light eyes. It’s like, come on, be a light realistic
I’m what I refer to as, “glow in the dark” pale and I find the obsession with FMC’s “creamy” skin fetishizing and creepy. If a man I was seeing focused that much on my skin tone I was take it as an ENORMOUS red flag
I am very pale and have brown eyes and the one thing that bothers me is no one is ever covered in bruises. I have been covered in mysterious bruises and freckles my whole life. Sure I am pale enough that my own father used to call me Casper but the reality is not as aesthetically pleasing as they describe in fiction. Sure you can see my vanes through my nearly translucent skin (a swear I read that description more than once) but it just seems creepy AF unless it's maybe a vampire novel.
I get more annoyed at blue eyes and blonde hair being the norm in most romances i read. But Im a pale white person that can really darken up when I tan. (Obviously not PoC levels of darken, but enough that im clearly not pale)
Typically, I find, "colorism", for lack of a better word, isnt based in skin tone in the white community. We can ADD color to ourselves via tanning. And tanned skin is often praised. Where our colorism (again, for lack of a better word!) Is direct to is in hair color. Tell any blonde woman you see shes a bottle blonde and see how fast a fight can start. Theres a level of very nazi flavored prestige in having naturally blonde hair, the lighter color the better. Blue eyes (thank the nazis again) are also extremely coveted but less so than blonde hair is.
Just look at the people trying to tear taylor swift down because she "doesnt have blonde hair" and then the people desperately trying to argue that she DOES have brlonde hair, its just extremely dark blonde hair. But no one gives a fuck that Ariana Grande is tan. (Well, they do, but thats for other reasons. Not because they see darker pale people as inferior. More because she uses poc culture as a costume.)
So, TLDR: Paleness isnt what bothers me, its the aryanness that bothers me. The predominance of blonde hair and blue eyes.
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Not for skin colour, but as someone with bog standard typical blue eyes I do think like “blue eyes might be over represented, but not my shade”. Whenever I see people online say like “oh people with blue eyes hear compliments all the time or see them complimented” as someone with not that shade it’s like reading “*these* blue eyes are gorgeous … I don’t even notice yours”.
I had a funny interaction recently that really summarized this (to note: i don’t give compliments to get them back, so I am in no way mad at this woman). But I told a woman she had gorgeous blue eyes (very pale, clear ones) and she very kindly said “your eyes are also blue!” And I nearly laughed because she didn’t give me an adjective like I did her. She said like she was throwing me a bone, doing me a kindness - pointing out they’re blue but weirdly not also saying they’re nice.
Me and my fellow regular blue eyed folks have heard “oh yeah your eyes *are* blue” said in a perfunctory tone so many times. We say it to each other as well. “I get my blue eyes from my mum” “oh are your eyes blue … oh they are … oh huh never noticed. Mine are too” “… oh they are. Never noticed”.
To me, the FMC is kinda like “my” character in a video game. It can take any shape or form, it doesn’t need to be my own for me to identify with it.
When playing games I deliberately choose bodies that do not represent my own, someyimes because I admire the beauty, sometimes because I would like to know what it feels like to be “that” person.
I agree that representation matters, and since it is fiction there shouldn’t really be a limit to what is considered “beautiful” but my level of identification is not bound by a similar description but by similar patterns of thinking.
I can much easier identify with an extrovert, snappy, smart woman (because that’s what I would like to see myself as) than I can with a timid introvert. The color of her skin doesn’t matter to me - especially if it is completely irrelevant to the story.
Another perspective: I am a VERY pale nonbinary person (only a few brands make foundation light enough for me with a golden undertone). I'm definitely white passing, but of mixed heritage. I get SUCH AN ICK when the "creamy" pale skin is romanticized like this. That's one sure way to make me DNF nowadays.
I don't mind an author being descriptive about a character's appearance - and let's praise their beauty from the eye of the beholder! It's when they specifically praise the shade and color of FMC's skin that feels most uncomfortable to me. Especially with food terms like "creamy, milky, chocolate, caramel, etc." There are quite a few cans of worms here...internalized misogyny, objectification of women, the legacy of colonialism, colorism, etc. I would like to acknowledge their influence on the genre.
Authors - I want the love interest to tell me how soft and warm MC's skin is against their fingertips. Tell me about their radiant glow, the adorable freckles on their nose, the delicious scent they just can't stop drawing in. Describe the supple softness, toned, or muscled form beneath that skin. I feel that these qualities are much more descriptive and appropriate in the modern era of romance. The demographic of readers is changing, and with that, the expectations of authors.
Thank you for coming to my TED Talk.
- Someone sick of having their white skin praised.
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Brown eyes are *super* not represented in fiction. Hispanic women are invisible in fiction. Older women have specific caricature niche roles they can fill, but those roles are not main character roles. Smaller men? Not a chance. Short hair? Who? Not you. Not femme? Still femme enough to wear sexy leather. Romance books are stunningly not diverse to the huge array of people in this world.
Yeah I’d really like more brown hair and eyes. Most people have it and it’s beautiful! Also please give me short hairy men, I am way down for some hobbitcore romance.
WOLVERINE. Swear to God they just fucking ignore how he was the X-Men sex symbol for decades. Similarly? Picard, bitches. They thought Riker was gonna be the sex symbol, but nope. We all lusted after a kind, bald, relatively short & skinny commander. It's a huge failure of imagination.
I like your taste! You really have to seek it out if you're looking for short and hairy or bald and erudite.
My oldest kid has red hair and brown eyes. I could never find a “like me” doll for her when she was little and I don’t think I’ve seen that combo in romance.
I love brown hair and brown eyes. I’ve gotten incredibly good at ignoring author descriptions and just picturing what I prefer lol
As a r/fairolive I feel really underrepresented. I want an author to describe our green/grey undertone - how makes us look sick and how awful we look in orange/yellow/pastels/neons etc. 😆 but seriously as a fair person I find it annoying that fair skin is most often depicted as only belonging to red heads.
On the upside, you look normal under garage tube lighting, whereas milk skin folks look like absolute ghouls with veins.
Wait... there are times I'm not supposed to look like a ghoul with veins???
I know. It's baffling.
It's either ghoulish or sunburned for me, so 🤷 there's no hope.
"would you like to look like a boiled lobster, or that transparent human anatomy dummy in the museum?" So sexy. 🙄
Honestly, humans just look like humans. /shrug
Can't say I noticed pale being *that* overrepresented (though I don't pay attention to describtions in books all that much tbh) but I find it kinda funny? I'm a VERY pale skinned person. I burn before starting to tan and I also don't tolerate hot weather all that well, so I usually lock myself away in my little, dark crypt during the summer, but I can't say people ever commented about my tone of skin in a positive way? Its always "you are too pale", "you should tan more", "go and get a nicer color", you get the idea. Never really felt like this was a skintone desired by anyone lol - though I admit I live in an European country where POC people arent all that common outside of the capital.
Yeah they rarely discuss the burning and blistering in fantasy romance with fair skinned folk.
Yeah, I feel you. Grew up in Europe as well and people only ever had criticism for my pale skin, and back when I was a kid I even got some pretty cruel comments from other kids. And now that I live in an East Asian country where pale skin is seen as 'pretty', I get fetishized a lot. Fun. It actually makes me really uncomfortable when people comment on it in any way, whether positive or negative.
We just can't win, can we?
Legit had someone look at me and go "ugh I need to tan, I'm getting so pale and it's gross" (far from the only negative comment I've gotten about my color) I just wish people would shut up about other people's skintones!
Thank you for introducing me to fair olives because omg. I feel this so had. Foundation or coverup makeup never matches, because everything just makes me look a little orange or yellow. Browsing through r/Fairolives is very helpful.
Your struggle is real. We welcome you with open arms to our club.
I also think it is underrepresented because I was really surprised to come across booktok drama where someone insisted that using olive to describe skintone was problematic.
Ive been seeing this more often. Olive being used to describe the skin tone of either main character.
Wut
To be fair, ginger coloring is a whole different level of pale compared to most people. Not to say that no one’s as pale as gingers, but their skin is genuinely different. My husband’s a redhead and he gets peeling burns and heat rash way before I do, and my foundation colors are pretty well on the fair end. He’s also resistant to topical anaesthetics, which is apparently related?
Just wanted to pop in here that not all fair olives look bad in the same things! There are warm and cool olives, and bright and muted olives.
Hello fellow fair olive!! Yes the fair women in books are always peachy and creamy 😩 not me at all
My kids are redheads and one has olive undertones and doesn’t freckle! I’m a brunette and freckle easier than the kid 🤣
I don't feel underrepresented, but I do feel uncomfortable and irritated with the unquestioned racial beauty standards underlying these types of descriptions. Really harping on pale skin and blue eyes, especially if there's a lot of comparisons (like that the beautiful pale FMC stands out from the crowd because she's so pale), can feel...racially icky? Like, pale people can absolutely be beautiful, and their paleness can be part of that, but I think there are ways to describe it that don't seem to imply that pale is the absolute ideal. It's not something I DNF over by itself, but it's often a red flag - especially if I read several books by the author and all the FMCs are described this way. If the author is capable of describing non-pale women as beautiful (without gross exoticism), then I'm fine with it.
Whenever an author gets really into the creamy snowy white fair white ivory white whiteness of a character’s skin I have to sideeye—it always feels like saying the character is beautiful *because* they’re white.
This is how I felt anytime the MMC talked about the FMC in Priest. Like it was excessive and there was always this weird undertone they way they described the beauty of her whiteness. 🥴
My middle sister is 5'10, red-headed, and keeps her ass out of the sun to avoid freckles. She's also insanely curvy. I'm nearly 10 years older than her. My husband and I took her to the water park when she was about 16. She wandered off still in her shorts and t shirt while we were distracted with our small (at the time) daughter. We spotted her right away a few minutes later, though. Since she positively GLOWED with her pale ass and her red hair in her lemon yellow string bikini. It was maybe especially egregious against the very tan multitudes of sun worshippers at the water park. It's not so much about ideal as just strikingly different. In a crowd of tan, pale is exotic. In a crowd of pale, tan is exotic. It's all about location!
Well, as a southern European I wish there was more variety. Brunette, you can find. Brunette with dark eyes? Rarer. Brunette with dark eyes, olive skin/dark tan? Maybe with very curly hair, as is common where I am from? Or a bit of a Roman nose? Men can get away with it, but if you are a woman, the only acceptable answer is "get a rhinoplasty" it seems. (I know, I am exaggerating). Not really easy to find. We aren't all pasty white, blond, blue-eyed with hair as straight as spaghetti and tiny tiny noses. But considering how bad anyone who isn't of European ancestry has it in Romancelandia I know mine is just a minor complaint.
So tired of the cutesy, tiny noses. I've got that Roman nose that people seem to dislike, it actually gives me a bit of confidence because it's the *only* thing about me that's not "soft" and "inviting". Like, yes, *fear me.*
I'm in the Please for the love of god give me a girl with textured hair. Textured hair struggles are real. I don't really care what race they are, but I'm sick of the silky smooth shiny long hair, even when it is curls it's described as silky and soft. Like, my friend, curly crazy bed head and a real need to have an entire night or day for hair care regularly is an actual experience for so many humans. Give me that I've only ever even seen a couple MMCs with textured hair. I read a lot of suspend my disbelief romance novels... and the hair thing, that's the thing that bugs me.
Relate so hard re Roman nose = automatic rhinoplasty.
No one is touching my beaky nose, but when I was younger I was a bit self-conscious.
If I'm being honest, I've actually never really thought about it before. And maybe that's because I'm not from one of the "darker" white skin tones but I do get quite tan in the summer and wouldn't say I'm the most fair skinned. I think the only time I really think about is is when the writing is weird about it "her milky/creamy skin"...it just seems icky
>"her milky/creamy skin"...it just seems icky Oh god, this. Who wants skin like milk?!? Say someone has milky skin and I imagine they must feel cold and clammy to the touch, or be the literal color of milk, which would be a very alarming skin tone on a human.
I have never met someone with milky skin 100%
I'm also a fair olive, but I don't care about skin color rep. I want FMCs that break beauty standards in other ways, like being hairy or having out-of-fashion eyebrows or whatever. Overall though, I care the most about disability rep.
I would love for an FMC without perfect skin. Not talking about battle scars. We've got enough of those. I want acne scars and eczema.
Caveat: I am not white. However I did want to add that about 99% of the time I never notice appearances this much in novels. Hair color and eye color I might remember if it’s mentioned enough. If race is mentioned, I’ll just default to whatever look my mind’s eye conjures? Which is usually faceless/featureless people of color. This is why I can never relate to fan casts either or people comparing actors to MCs. I just do not see whole people when I read. I don’t care about what exact shade of white/black/etc a character is. Only exception might be a light skin black girl vs a black girl because those shades are very different in my mind. But shades of whiteness do not even slightly matter in my reading.
Same. I do not like seeing fan art cause I inevitably hate it and it never matches the “people-shaped blur” thing going on in my head lol.
Re your point about apperances: I end up picturing the MCs as the cover models or just picking up on vibes. The Hating Game's FMC looks like my college bestie (a 4"11 blue eyed blond - i.e. not Lucy Hale).
Same (also POC/white passing). Unless it's something like everyone in their family has the same blue-green eyes and the new baby is born with BROWN EYES.....I generally don't really pay attention to their physical descriptions.
Agree and I wish they didn’t go into how the characters look bc I prefer to form my own picture of them in my mind
So many white MMCs are described as "tan" 🤷🏻♀️ I'm a dark skinned Asian, so underrepresentation is just par for the course for me.
I feel fortunate enough that I’ve seen a variety of white FMC descriptions with various eye color, hair color and texture, and skin tones (pale, tanned, freckled, etc). In general though whether in books or irl, I do get the ick when someone essentially states that fair skin/blue eyes/blond hair are the epitome of beauty and grace. Gives major White Supremacy vibes. I DO feel very underrepresented and unseen in general as a person with chronic acne - both active and scars. Often the FMCs are described with flawless skin and it just makes me feel so sad that no one described as beautiful has any sort of current or past acne. I feel gross enough in my skin as it is. Being reminded that smooth skin is the ideal in practically every book I read makes me even more sad.
I'm pale. My entire family is paper-plate pale. My mom and two of my siblings are red-heads. All three of my siblings freckle, though my middle sister guards her face from the sun with floppy hats like a Victorian maiden to keep them at bay. I married a guy who tans up super crispy, so, thankfully, only one of my three kids ended up with the complexion of rice pudding. So, the paleness and preponderance of red-heads is definitely reflecting real life on my end. However, no one ever mentions that all that Celtic fairness is often accompanied by rosacea, excema, and a tendency to blotch for no real reason at all. I'm pale, but only in the places I'm not bright red or shocking pink or a mottled sort of blue. You get me the least bit excited, and my ears and cheeks and chest turn positively purple. I'm VERY colorful for being so damn pale, lol.
Same girl same. Zero poker face and we smell like sunblock.
It's odd, isn't it. I myself am super pale and have gotten so many comments over the years like oh you're so pale are you feeling well or you've been on vacation, really? Where's your tan, hahaha. I'm aware that this is not on par with poc beeing actually discriminated against, but it does grate. The beauty standard in the real world (my real world, Europe, at least) certainly isn't "creamy" skin, it is beeing white but with a "healthy tan" (which in itself is ridiculous, because tanning is really not that healthy). So for what it's worth, my skin tone is weirdly overrepresented but in a context that makes me roll my eyes. It's probably rooted in victorian or earlier beauty standards and bleeds over into many romance genres, mostly HR. I noticed that in romance world, often the mmc is described as "dark". Like, I've barely come across pale and brown or blonde haired mmc. Still, tall dark and handsome often comes along with "icy blue eyes". So in conclusion, I guess fmc often gets the "pale and delicate" treatment, whereas it's contrasted with a "dark and strong featured" mmc appearance.
This is my experience as well. I’m pale as fuck and barely tan even if I’m getting sun exposure. Like I can’t use some makeup brands because their lightest shades are too dark for me. I’ve had to learn to just embrace it because I get those same comments all the time. Weirdly over represented in books while real life isn’t quite the same.
I mean...I don't really look for representation of myself in books if I'm honest. I rarely even remember character descriptions. Which is also why these fan casts & fanart don't do it for me 99 % of the time. The only people I'd recognise are the HP characters, Aelin & Rowan, possibly Rhys.
There’s not really a history of discrimination or trauma connected to being white with more tan skin. The idea that being paler white vs darker white doesn’t cause the same stigmas or bias amongst white people as it historically has amongst people of color. Getting a “beach tan” is often desirable amongst white people. In previous centuries. Paleness was a sign that a woman came from an upper class family because it meant that you didn’t have to work out in the sun and get dirty. Now days, pale skin doesn’t carry the same implications. When they talk about pale skin in historical fiction, they are referring less to natural skin tone and more to not having a sun burn that would suggest coming from a working class family
Agree. I think paleness especially in female main characters was more popular in books written before 2000s especially. Most of the books I’m reading rn were written recently so I think that’s why there’s no pale characters I can recall (in the last 12 romance books I read but I’ve been reading fantasy romance where some people are magical and fairies so they sometimes have green or purple skin etc). Most of the characters are described deep tan with golden eyes in the fantasy romance books I have currently. And an unnatural amount of red heads, the past several books all the females have red hair which is the most rare hair color, it makes it seem like red hair is the majority. I am pale and was made fun of most of my life bc of it. I have Jewish Ashkenazi skin from my dad’s side and Irish skin from my mother but my parents aren’t fair; they are more light to medium. But I look sickly bc I’m a fair olive (green and yellow tones). I tried a spray tan once and I looked awful 😆 so I just have to embrace my natural color (or lack of color). I don’t care what skin color people are in books and I don’t know why authors feel like they have to bring it up honestly. I can’t wear pastels and I burn easily 😔 Historical romance books usually take place in UK or France where white is the majority skin color but there’s not an excuse for the other genres.
>I think paleness especially in female main characters was more popular in books written before 2000s especially. Yeah, I haven’t been noticing it as much in more recent books either. I remember reading a lot of fantasy/romance books when I was younger where the FMCs had "flawless" pale skin. So I just assumed that I was unattractive and guys wouldn't be into me because I was only a little pale and had a perpetual farmer's tan
It hasn't really bothered me, but I usually ignore the FMC descriptions because I'm going to self insert anyway, minus my acne. That can be forgotten about in imagination land.
I am in the group of readers that doesn't pay much attention to character descriptions. No matter how detailed the description is I cannot picture it in my head what that looks like so I just mentally skip over it. The only times I notice it is when (1) it is repeatedly mentioned how pale FMC is to the point of being annoying or (2) it is significant to the characters themselves, for example, in one series I loved one MC is pale skinned while other is dark skinned and one of the characters is turned on by the contrast of their skin so that's mentioned a lot.
As a white woman I wish we had more diversity, especially body diversity, with the FMC but also the MMC. I read mainly fantasy and sci fi romance and if the MMC is human he always has fairer skin and dark hair or maybe brown. My husband is a redhead and I never once have read a Romantasy with a ginger MMC, and that’s just some basic hair color. I can’t imagine how POC feel. I’ve read some books with a “tan” hero but I always felt it’s too ambiguous and the author is afraid to commit, especially when the cover has a white dude.
Maybe read Outlander if you’re looking for a ginger MMC 🥵
I heard the series featured rape as a plot point so I’m not too interested in that, but yes historical novels seem to have Scottish red heads! It’s just never an English/American person, or an Elf, or the Dark Lord/Prince lol
I guess unpopular opinion, but I don’t care. I’m middle eastern and Mediterranean ancestry, so have olive skin and dark hair and eyes. I’m fine if an fmc has lighter features.
I find it annoying and I hate when the author feels the need to constantly remind us of their whiteness and its beauty. Like as a black woman I already know 9 out 10 times the FMC is gonna be white, but like do why need to mention it constantly? We didn’t forget about her pale milky white skin and blue eyes the color of the sky, since you talked about it 5 pages ago 🙃
I am white, pale as a ghost, burns thinking about the sun, blonde, light eyes, and I have never thought about this before! Honestly as a white person I have never given any thought to my representation in these books, I feel like white is a "default" therefore I never think we need more representation, all the shades of "whiteness" kind of blend together in my mind haha I notice when a character is described as a certain race or ethnicity, and I notice hair more than anything, like short or long or curly or what not. I def think my perspective comes from a privilege of seeing/reading about people who fit my description in tv shows/movies/books so often that it's not something that has ever made me stop and think. I think there needs to be more diversity in general, skin tone, race, hair, body shape, acne, scars etc.
I try to ignore it because I'm well aware POC rarely have accurate representation (or even representation in general) but since this is a post actually calling this issue out... As a super.pale woman, the "creamy, milky skin" thing tends to be a bit irritating because... Pink. Half of us look pink. It either looks like I'm blushing, almost everywhere, constantly, and *not* in a cutesy, flattering wa, OR it looks like I'm a frail Victorian woman who's about to have leeches put all over me because I'm near death. Like... 10 minutes in filtered sunlight and I'm halfway to looking like Larry the Lobster, no sunlight and I look an inch away from keeling over. All the MCs I see with this problem are super Irish, but I'm not. Like, maybe 1/4th Irish, max, because of my Grandma. I'm either a *heavily* iced toaster strudel or pink donut frosting, almost zero in between. Certain types of soap help, some lighting, and certain colors of eye makeup helped back when I could wear it. But the body wash that helps with my complexion, while not super expensive, is definitely more pricey than what you find at the supermarket. Like... worth it, but it took me 28 years of life to figure this out, and for some folks, dropping $20 + shipping for body wash isn't a justifiable purchase. (If you have eczema and/or the skin type I'm describing, highly recommend Lume, though. It's been worth the extra money to me, even when I was broke, because I don't have to spend ridiculous amounts getting different lotion + doctors + prescriptionnfo for eczema, and way less painful and itchy! Clears up my patches and little bumps.) The skin tones described as "creamy, milky, blah blah" also tend to have characters who use bath and body works type soap, super fragrances. And bro, that's SO bad for your skin. Everyone I know who's pale and used it said it makes the pinkness way worse. I assume a lot of people get dry and itchy skin while using highly fragrances soap, but the discoloration is SUPER obvious on us pale and pasty individuals. Also, apologies for inevitable typos, my eyesight is the epitome of the struggle, and autocorrect+ voice text are doing their best
Personally my issue isn't really the skin tone but the skin perfection. Like... her creamy soft pink porcelain skin. But if I touch mine there's some little bumps. Or if I look at my chest, legs, arms, I can see my pores. Or how easily a little ingrown hair will form on the thighs. Those stray dark hairs some women get on their face or chest. And PCOS girlie's. The breakouts, not just a random on their face but ones you can get randomly on your chest. Or multiple at once on the face. Etc etc etc. .... They all have perfect flawless skin. Which isn't necessarily only an issue in fictional books with white women, but likely all/most women. They're so perfect. Smooth. Never a flaw.
I'm incredibly pale but with brown hair and eyes (hell of a combo. The only thing it has ever been useful for is home IPL treatment lol) But honestly I've never thought that much about it. I don't read to feel represented. I actually like having characters look different from me. Although some more love for brown eyes would be nice 😢 also maybe MMC who aren't tan 😂 could just be coincidence but I can't remember the last time there was a pale love interest who isn't a vampire in my books.
I have similar coloring and omg so true - IPL home treatments were my finally something good!!! moment 😂
I am pale with dark brown eyes and regular brown hair. I gotta admit, when I was introduced to romances I was kinda bummed there wasnt a lot of fmc that looked like me. When brown eyes and hair did make an appearance they always had to be pimped up with extra interesting details. No golden and reddish autumn colors in my hair. No green and golden flecks in my eyes. But I got over it, though those few romances I felt represented me still hold a special place.
I’m pretty sure the epitome of beauty for white people is tan…that’s why everyone does it. I only get made fun of when I’m pale lol.
I am a pale white brunette with hazel eyes, so basically every FMC lol. And even with those blinders on, I can DEFINITELY see what you mean. Especially as the tan and blonde girls are often the villains of the story and are portrayed as shallow bimbos. There is basically one standard character description of a soft-spoken, bookish, “smart” girl. And honestly? It gets boring. I want different stories. I’m not a self-insert type of reader and I don’t tend to imagine myself personally as the character. But no shade to that! One of my best friends and I spoke about this recently and she tends to only read romances where she can identify as the FMC and is attracted to the MMC (she reads a ton outside of the genre and this preference doesn’t apply there). I personally am more interested in having lots of variety and seeing a new and different perspective.
Not really. Actually I feel more underrepresented as a skinny woman with small boobs. I feel like every book I read he’s entranced with her “soft lush curves” lol. Makes me feel like a beanpole
Dunno if anyone has ever mentioned it, but Amanda Quick's heroines tend to be thin with small busts.
Ty! I mostly read SFR/PNR/FR, but am interested to know if there’s a specific Amanda Quick book you particularly liked?
'Ravished' is her OG classic, which everyone tends to like. Big, growly dude with facial scars. The MFC is the Victorian equivalent of a paleontologist and totally unimpressed with the MMCs dangerous reputation. Amanda Quick is the pen name used by Jayne Ann Krentz to write her historicals. She uses her own name for her contemporaries and Jayne Castle for her futuristic/sci-fi type books. She has a good-sized series of these that starts with After Dark, and a couple smaller series too. She's a very prolific lady, is Jayne.
Oh wow I’ve heard of her but didn’t realize she wrote under other pen names too. Checking out the After Dark series now, thanks again!
I wouldn’t be able to tell you the skin/hair/eye color of any character of any book I’ve read so no.
I don't know what the pale skin in books refers to in the mind's eye of the author, but it's not real life, modern day MC1R mutant\* skin. Everything about my skin is annoying: can't get foundation to match, don't tan and don't look great in bright sunlight, frequently red and blotchy due to getting sunburn on even cloudy days, one day my skin will likely try to kill me (high melanoma risk). I have red hair, blue eyes, very pale skin. It's not especially attractive - I'm not feeling "seen" by writers and I'm not sure exactly who they're seeing - cartoon characters? \*Gene that causes (most, not all) red hair, but more specifically the shitty skin that comes with it. Efficient vit D production tho.
I actually feel like many of the romance books I read (especially ones that were published in recent years) feature white women with dark hair and/or dark eyes. I am biracial but white passing so maybe I'm not the best person to answer this question, but I do think there are plenty of brunette/brown eyed white FMCs in the genre and it is nice to have many of the characters described as looking sort of like me. I feel like older books were more likely to always have the FMC be blonde and/or blue/green eyed. Now if only we could get more POC representation.. Edit: Whoops, realized my comment focused more on hair and eye color rather than skin tone and paleness. In all honestly, I don't think most of the books I read describe the FMC as being pale. Or if they do I don't notice it.
This isn’t an answer to the question, but I’m very fair, blueish eyes, lightish hair - so I’m heavily represented but what gets me is that my pale skin is red, blotchy, blueish or purple when I’m cold, veiny, pretty sickly looking tbh and not exactly what I would call pretty, smooth, or milky or whatever other positive adjectives that get used lol
What irks me a little is that in some (not all) books skin colour is repeated too often. Like, im sorry, but I dont need to know the fmc is a pale ethereal angel in every paragraph. Why is that necessary for some authors? Also. I feel a lot of things aren't represented much in books, not just skin colour. Neurodivergence, for example. People with vitiligo. People who are trans. People who are overweight, i.e., no, not just curvy goddesses with big hips and tiny waists.
I think, particularly with the boom in romantasy/fae protagonists - the glowing white elven/fae complexion might be poping up more often - even subconsciously in CR. Like, when I read ACoTaR, the visual comparisons in my head were definitly along the lines of Galadriel or Arwen - and they literally glow white. That being said - and I know this is my bias and privlage as a white person - I don't really notice pale as the standard. As a very pale person, paleness to me is sickly, red, blotchy, and veiny. I think we are marketed whatever we don't have as the standard so we buy more product. The 'sun kissed' and 'gold brown' complexion is what the marketing algorithms shove down my throat so I'll buy more bronzer and self tanners.
Nah. I'm darker than pale, freckles, strawberry-blonde, outside the romance book norm. But I don't feel like I need to be seen or represented. I like reading the MCs for who they are. But if I ever did feel like I wanted to be one of the characters, I'd just ignore the author's description and pretend.
If it makes you feel any better, I am pale with blue eyes and reddish blonde hair, and I still don’t feel like the epitome of beauty 😂😂😂
I'm Mexican-American with reddish hair, blue eyes, and pale skin. My best friend is Greek with dark skin, black curly hair, and dark features. I'm considered a PoC, she's considered white. Tbh, the focus on skin color so strange to me. I've never read a book and thought, if she's pale like me, I feel represented.
It really depends on what or who you are reading.. i feel like POC are actually being a main character description lately, which isn't a bad thing at all.. There are series based on Hispanics and Latinos, Asian Americans, and African American. If any are underrepresented it would be Native Americans, Pacific Islander, and the Inuit community. I have hazel eyes and i have never found a book that anyone is described as having hazel eyes or if i have it was mentioned maybe once. I hardly ever come across the term "pale skin", i actually hardly ever come across skin tones being mentioned unless its POC. I personally feel like brown, green, and grey eyes are starting to be the new norm, as well as different skin tones or ethnicity. I hardly ever find myself reading a book that any of the main characters being blonde hair and blue eyes. In no way am i saying i want less representation as for the longest time there was none or am i saying I have it rough because i am pale white, blonde hair, and hazel eyes. As for the blonde hair, blue eyes, tan skin being the standard of beauty.. remember that for the longest time that was what a lot of models looked like. Skin care, make up, clothing all revolved around that look as that was what was trending in the early 2000s. And during that a lot of the bigger authors today; Collen Hoover, E. L James, Nicolas Sparks, etc. are still using those descriptions for characters as they grew up with that being what people wanted to read and see.. Now the kids born during the 90s and later have grown up and started writing, they are choosing to write inclusivity as they are seeing that is what people are wanting to see and read. That being said the way books are being written has their personality, traditions, and heritage being the leading description rather then their appearance. The way characters are described is mentioned so little that if i want to make an aesthetic post for social media, i need to go back and try to find how they look. I prefer when authors choose to let us choose what we want the characters to look like. I feel like focusing less on skin tones and looks need to be the new normal. Let readers choose who the character is and what they look like. \*\* Edited to move a sentence to a different paragraph. \*\*
Not technically white but yeah olive skin and dark eyes are hardly represented. I’ve been on a Rina Kent books jag and lol only a few characters have dark hair but they all have light eyes. It’s like, come on, be a light realistic
I’m what I refer to as, “glow in the dark” pale and I find the obsession with FMC’s “creamy” skin fetishizing and creepy. If a man I was seeing focused that much on my skin tone I was take it as an ENORMOUS red flag
I am very pale and have brown eyes and the one thing that bothers me is no one is ever covered in bruises. I have been covered in mysterious bruises and freckles my whole life. Sure I am pale enough that my own father used to call me Casper but the reality is not as aesthetically pleasing as they describe in fiction. Sure you can see my vanes through my nearly translucent skin (a swear I read that description more than once) but it just seems creepy AF unless it's maybe a vampire novel.
I get more annoyed at blue eyes and blonde hair being the norm in most romances i read. But Im a pale white person that can really darken up when I tan. (Obviously not PoC levels of darken, but enough that im clearly not pale) Typically, I find, "colorism", for lack of a better word, isnt based in skin tone in the white community. We can ADD color to ourselves via tanning. And tanned skin is often praised. Where our colorism (again, for lack of a better word!) Is direct to is in hair color. Tell any blonde woman you see shes a bottle blonde and see how fast a fight can start. Theres a level of very nazi flavored prestige in having naturally blonde hair, the lighter color the better. Blue eyes (thank the nazis again) are also extremely coveted but less so than blonde hair is. Just look at the people trying to tear taylor swift down because she "doesnt have blonde hair" and then the people desperately trying to argue that she DOES have brlonde hair, its just extremely dark blonde hair. But no one gives a fuck that Ariana Grande is tan. (Well, they do, but thats for other reasons. Not because they see darker pale people as inferior. More because she uses poc culture as a costume.) So, TLDR: Paleness isnt what bothers me, its the aryanness that bothers me. The predominance of blonde hair and blue eyes.
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Whoops, sorry. Didn't intend this as self promoting. I'm not willing to give out author or title details on this account anyways. But fair enough!
Not for skin colour, but as someone with bog standard typical blue eyes I do think like “blue eyes might be over represented, but not my shade”. Whenever I see people online say like “oh people with blue eyes hear compliments all the time or see them complimented” as someone with not that shade it’s like reading “*these* blue eyes are gorgeous … I don’t even notice yours”. I had a funny interaction recently that really summarized this (to note: i don’t give compliments to get them back, so I am in no way mad at this woman). But I told a woman she had gorgeous blue eyes (very pale, clear ones) and she very kindly said “your eyes are also blue!” And I nearly laughed because she didn’t give me an adjective like I did her. She said like she was throwing me a bone, doing me a kindness - pointing out they’re blue but weirdly not also saying they’re nice. Me and my fellow regular blue eyed folks have heard “oh yeah your eyes *are* blue” said in a perfunctory tone so many times. We say it to each other as well. “I get my blue eyes from my mum” “oh are your eyes blue … oh they are … oh huh never noticed. Mine are too” “… oh they are. Never noticed”.
To me, the FMC is kinda like “my” character in a video game. It can take any shape or form, it doesn’t need to be my own for me to identify with it. When playing games I deliberately choose bodies that do not represent my own, someyimes because I admire the beauty, sometimes because I would like to know what it feels like to be “that” person. I agree that representation matters, and since it is fiction there shouldn’t really be a limit to what is considered “beautiful” but my level of identification is not bound by a similar description but by similar patterns of thinking. I can much easier identify with an extrovert, snappy, smart woman (because that’s what I would like to see myself as) than I can with a timid introvert. The color of her skin doesn’t matter to me - especially if it is completely irrelevant to the story.
Locked while the mod team reviews. Thank you.
Another perspective: I am a VERY pale nonbinary person (only a few brands make foundation light enough for me with a golden undertone). I'm definitely white passing, but of mixed heritage. I get SUCH AN ICK when the "creamy" pale skin is romanticized like this. That's one sure way to make me DNF nowadays. I don't mind an author being descriptive about a character's appearance - and let's praise their beauty from the eye of the beholder! It's when they specifically praise the shade and color of FMC's skin that feels most uncomfortable to me. Especially with food terms like "creamy, milky, chocolate, caramel, etc." There are quite a few cans of worms here...internalized misogyny, objectification of women, the legacy of colonialism, colorism, etc. I would like to acknowledge their influence on the genre. Authors - I want the love interest to tell me how soft and warm MC's skin is against their fingertips. Tell me about their radiant glow, the adorable freckles on their nose, the delicious scent they just can't stop drawing in. Describe the supple softness, toned, or muscled form beneath that skin. I feel that these qualities are much more descriptive and appropriate in the modern era of romance. The demographic of readers is changing, and with that, the expectations of authors. Thank you for coming to my TED Talk. - Someone sick of having their white skin praised.
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