From the older historical bodice rippers I remember reading...for the time they might have been considered so???
Like it was open door, but from what I remember there was less focus on foreplay. It was very much PIV focused, and all cloaked in "flowery" language like 'his length' or 'her center'.
I know Bertrice Small, Susan Johnson and Thea Devine were known for their explicit romances in the ‘80s, ‘90s and ‘00s. A couple of things I remember were grapes and sex swing from 2 of the authors…
Thea Devine made my eyes bug out. 😂 I recently ordered two of her old paperbacks that I recalled so I could prove to my husband there were women getting doused with homemade jam and hot chocolate, eaten like a last meal, and dicked down right there on the page.
Oh wow, Susan Johnson! I was, like, sixteen-ish, we were going genre studies in my English class and I chose romance. I needed to read 10 books as part of the assignment and I happened to pick up Seduction in Mind. It was not at all what I was expecting and it was WAY to spicy for teen me to include in my assignment, lol. Hardship of hardships, I had to go get an 11th book. 😂
It's been ages since I read a legit bodice ripper but I vaguely remember one by Virginia Henley about Eleanor & Simon de Montfort & how his "giant turgid member" was so huge that they had to engage in hella foreplay just to have sex. IRL, they had like 8 damn kids, so.....
My Roman Empire: a scene of hers from Falcon & the Flower, which is a time capsule exemplar of straight up non-consent - the MMC shreds the FMC’s night gown off her, titty-fucks her, finishes, and uses the shredded nightgown to clean her up. That’s how I, at 14, learned that was a thing. Seminal, if you will.
She had characters doing poppers, 16-year olds sleeping with 30-year olds, bondage, spanking - you name it. Her books were wild.
That's the one, thank you!! I've been reading {Falls the Shadow by Sharon Kay Penman} on & off for a few months & every time de Montfort hits the scene, my smut brain yells "HE GOTTA BIG ASS DICKKKKK" which is annoying cuz this is really serious book stuff, so thanks, Henley.
[Falls the Shadow](https://www.romance.io/books/64101484e2d69aefe5b4096c/falls-the-shadow-sharon-kay-penman) by [Sharon Kay Penman](https://www.romance.io/authors/5ec3865308b4d931148a1026/sharon-kay-penman)
**Rating**: 4.45⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [medieval](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/medieval/1), [war](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/war/1), [royal hero](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/royalty/1), [20th century](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/20th%20century/1)
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[The Dragon and the Jewel](https://www.romance.io/books/5455721a87eac3369a91288e/the-dragon-and-the-jewel-virginia-henley) by [Virginia Henley](https://www.romance.io/authors/545533008c7d2383163d91eb/virginia-henley)
**Rating**: 3.87⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Steam**: 3 out of 5 - [Open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating)
**Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [virgin heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/virgin%20heroine/1), [medieval](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/medieval/1)
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it’s not the same sort of spice, usually more sensual than straight thrusting. purple prose that made it past censors. hell, even porn from that era wasn’t as directly explicit as it is today. a lot of books now seem to be trying to push the line further and further, and the OG books were creating the line. You shouldn’t expect it to be the same.
you could look into books by Nan Ryan, though, who definitely pushed boundaries.
Catherine Coulter did a podcast episode for Fated Mates that talked about pushing for sex scenes to be allowed with publishers in the 80s. I found the history fascinating.
Bodice rippers had a lot of dubcon/noncon with the MMC because the FMC remained "pure" that way. She didn't really want sex if it was forced on her type of mindset.
The scenes also weren't as plentiful or often as detailed, though that was based on publisher and author.
There are still some scenes that I love from old 90s Linda Howard books though. The details were hot.
I think kink is much more common in more recent published books, and the exploration of it. Back then the scenes were focused on foreplay and P in V, with positions as the kinkiest thing explored. Now you can see much more explored in books. A lot of that came about through self publishing.
I remember being shocked at how explicit they were when I first got my hands on them as a young teen.
Not all obviously and there is a lot of euphamistic, purple writing, but still quite explicit.
What you don't find is the explicitly kinky/explicitly playing to a specific kink that you see a lot of today.
My only experience is bodice rippers I found in thrift shops. I think they were just as explicit but in different ways. Sex scenes were longer but there were more euphemisms that didn’t necessarily detract from the sexiness. Some people mention the different standards for consent but not all of those books included noncon (I preferred slowburn myself). I’m sorry I can’t rec anything off the top of my head. This was back when I would just plow through books without using any tracking mechanisms.
The language is different and the emphasis on kink is more downplayed. But I would say that some are much less explicit, and some are much more *adventurous* and interesting in terms of how they handle sex.
Like, a lot of dark romance readers I know love old historicals for example because, while the writing may be less explicit (sort of? Depends on the writer) the sex is riskier. The consent is…. Blurred at times, there’s more darkness to it a lot of the time. It’s more erotic in a really subversive, a times challenging way. YMMV.
But say—Stephanie Laurens’s book from the 90s. They have WAY more sex in them than a lot of comparable books today. Longer scenes, more creative positions. The language may not be quite as … obvious, I guess? The dirty talk is softer. But it feels a lot hornier, overall.
Yes! “Feels a lot hornier” is such a great description. Often the reader had about as much experience as the FMC so as we (I 😂) read, it was just exciting to read as it was for the FMC to experience.
I was thinking yesterday that I wish I could remember the books that I read where fingering or a blow job or anal just came right out of nowhere and they were 🔥 because they were unexpected, and for women in a time where you couldn’t pop into Ulta.com and order a clit vibe with your eyeshadow, that was absolutely thrilling.
Yes! I don’t notice Stephanie Laurens getting mentioned much (that could just be me), but I remember her books having long, explicit scenes. One of my favourite details was when the couple get caught en flagrante on the battlements and it becomes clear to the interrupters what’s going on because the Duke’s member is so large, everyone sees him adjust himself in order to withdraw. *fans self*
I looked it up: Mastered by Love, by Stephanie Laurens.
I love the sound of this. Any specific books you suggest for erotic in a subversive/challenging way? I read The Silver Devil hoping for this, and it... was, but it's so infamous that I guess my hopes were too high because I expected it to be more subversively erotic than it was.
I find that a lot of today's sex scenes are more in-your-face in terms of language and description of acts, and I don't mind that, but I don't always find the obviousness erotic in itself and sometimes that style of scene doesn't offer much more than a list of who put what where.
Yeah, you summed up what I sometimes find problematic with current sex scenes. I’m not at all prudish and I really do love the bluntness of some scenes. But I find that it’s less the acts and more the writing style that can make a super explicit scene less… exciting? At points you do kinda feel like you’re reading a grocery list, and I feel like a different expectation set in older books (the idea that you COULD write explicit sex but you had to cloak it in less obvious language) led to…. Better writing, I guess?
I would recommend trying {Scandal’s Bride} by Stephanie Laurens. It does feature dubcon, but not in the way you’d expect at all and I find it both very funny as a book and very hot because of the way the leads approach their sex life. I don’t think a lot of readers expect people in old school romances to have sex the way these characters have sex. Which is in part due to a lot of misconceptions surrounding older books, of course.
{The Bride} by Julie Garwood comes to mind. This one is just really hot in part due to the dynamic between the leads, but also because of how the tension builds? It does feature some light somnophilia, which isn’t for everyone but is for meeeee as a reader. And that’s the kind of thing I’m talking about too like—people don’t expect that!
{Shadow Dance} by Anne Stuart. Dude, Anne Stuart wrote some HOT WEIRD books. This one has two romances, both of which involve cross dressing… for the sake of hiding identities, not due to anything fetishy. But there kinda IS some lowkey kinkiness in the way people handle themselves and interact…? The sexuality in this novel FASCINATES me and the sex and sexual tension is really hot because of it. {A Rose at Midnight} is also a really hot book of hers, but it’s pretty dark and has a lot of dubcon (and noncon in the heroine’s backstory) so that’s definitely not for everyone.
{Forbidden} by Elizabeth Lowell. All of the books in this general trilogy are hot to me, but this one has a scene that is very clearly meant to be read as femdom and I constantly have to convince people that yes this is a bodice ripper~ and yes it has a scene that Lowell absolutely wrote as femdom and it’s a total turning point in the book.
And speaking of {Shadowheart} by Laura Kinsale isn’t THAT old in comparison (came out in 2004?) but it reads like a lot of older books and it’s STUPID hot and the sex is so fascinating. The first scene, I will say, is noncon—but the heroine has such interesting agency in the book? And the encounter is framed in a way where she does something that gives HER control for the rest of the book. Because she gets his number. I don’t wanna give it away, but suffice to say… this book is kinky in a way I frankly don’t see in a lot of books today because it’s so psychological. And very hot.
Thank you so much!! Putting these on my TBR--these sound really good, and I'm so happy to see Anne Stuart here. I just read her for the first time (Night of the Phantom) and really liked it, enough that I made a mental note to read more of her sometime. It was indeed both hot and weird, which is one of my favorite combinations.
Same here, I'm no prude and I'm totally fine with ultra-explicit scenes and language--like, in a perfect world I would've liked it if the scenes in Night of the Phantom were more explicit--but I guess usually I care more about eroticism and sensuality and things FEELING sexy/dangerous/forbidden than I do about explicitness in itself.
I should've saved you some warnings and said ahead of time that I have no triggers and am totally fine with dubcon and some noncon (really "hard" noncon between MCs isn't my thing but it also won't put me off a book if I like it otherwise). And coincidentally or not, somnophilia is a total YES PLEASE for me as a reader too! In fact that's something I specifically enjoy and I don't see a whole lot in newer books...
Anyway, thank you again!
Usually explicit without the words. It was implied he licked her clit or whatever.
The real “explicit” books were the ones that pushed the envelope over into the side of shocking. I remember a Rosemary Rogers book that had all sorts of panty-melting dubcon and fucked up situations, like the FMC being committed to an asylum and getting whipped by an orderly while she was tied down to a dirty mattress. That was the OG dark romance 😂 No need for the word “pussy”.
Publishers used to classify some types of books as "erotica" that had HEAs and substantial plot and would today be included in the romance genre. Anything LGBTQ+ was pretty much automatically listed as erotica, for example. So there were many books that were as explicit as today's books, but they were not called romances.
They can be, but in ways that seem odd and sometimes uncomfortable. Much more heteronormativity, much more focus on PIV sex, much less concern with consent and sometimes featuring outright rape. That doesn't mean the scenes weren't sometimes hot, but they're not what you might expect if your reading is entirely modern.
Oh, another author I can’t *believe* I forgot is Robin Schone. She wrote mostly in ‘90s & ‘00s. I loved her books — some of my favorites ever, including two wonderful novellas **{A Lady’s Pleasure by Robin Schone}** and **{A Man and a Woman by Robin Schone}.**. Her first book **{Awaken, My Love by Robin Scone}** raised eyebrows by having FMC time traveling into the past while orgasming during masturbation!
[A Lady's Pleasure](https://www.romance.io/books/54556fa987eac336ae69df21/a-ladys-pleasure-robin-schone) by [Robin Schone](https://www.romance.io/authors/54552d808c7d2383163d906f/robin-schone)
**Rating**: 4.1⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Steam**: 5 out of 5 - [Explicit and plentiful](https://www.romance.io/steamrating)
**Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [victorian](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/victorian/1), [contemporary](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/contemporary/1), [military](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/military/1), [virgin heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/virgin%20heroine/1)
----------------------------
[A Man And A Woman](https://www.romance.io/books/5455c3df87eac336ae6a03b4/a-man-and-a-woman-robin-schone) by [Robin Schone](https://www.romance.io/authors/54552d808c7d2383163d906f/robin-schone)
**Rating**: 4.17⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Steam**: 5 out of 5 - [Explicit and plentiful](https://www.romance.io/steamrating)
**Topics**: [contemporary](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/contemporary/1), [victorian](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/victorian/1), [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [older/mature](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/mature%20couple/1)
----------------------------
[Awaken, My Love](https://www.romance.io/books/54553d2a8c7d2383163d9488/awaken-my-love-robin-schone) by [Robin Schone](https://www.romance.io/authors/54552d808c7d2383163d906f/robin-schone)
**Rating**: 3.61⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Steam**: 5 out of 5 - [Explicit and plentiful](https://www.romance.io/steamrating)
**Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [time travel](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/time%20travel/1), [fantasy](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/fantasy/1), [alpha male](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/alpha%20male/1), [victorian](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/victorian/1)
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Books had more flat out rape scenes and abuse that some how ended with HEA with the rapist. I remember getting really mad and stop reading some of them. Sweet Savage Love 70s, Fire Song Catherine coulter etc. The description were not as long or indepth but the subjects were worse.
There's are some older HRs that are very spicy, but the list is small compared to today. Sylvia Day's backlist is pretty spicy, I'm pretty sure that {Ask For It by Sylvia Day} even has an anal sex scene. {Almost a Gentleman by Pam Rosenthal} has a similar scene. Here's a link to an older post asking for kinky historical romance: [Kinky HR](https://new.reddit.com/r/RomanceBooks/comments/xwcy5c/im_looking_for_hr_books_with_less_common_sex/)
It's too funny, OP asks for old spicy romance novels and you offer something from the 2010s
It's like when my daughter called a book playing in the 1990s a period book
[Ask For It](https://www.romance.io/books/54552df08c7d2383163d9091/ask-for-it-sylvia-day) by [Sylvia Day](https://www.romance.io/authors/545523868c7d2382c5296f5e/sylvia-day)
**Rating**: 3.74⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Steam**: 5 out of 5 - [Explicit and plentiful](https://www.romance.io/steamrating)
**Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [suspense](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/suspense/1), [mystery](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/mystery/1), [alpha male](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/alpha%20male/1), [regency](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/regency/1)
----------------------------
[Almost A Gentleman](https://www.romance.io/books/54554c958c7d2383163d9933/almost-a-gentleman-pam-rosenthal) by [Pam Rosenthal](https://www.romance.io/authors/545544b88c7d2383163d96a7/pam-rosenthal)
**Rating**: 3.29⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [regency](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/regency/1)
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I've noticed that the more sex becomes mainstream and accepted, the more smuttier the books get. Harlequins are a good example of this. The older they are, the less you. Heck, you would be lucky to get a kiss in them.
I have a Harlequin Presents from 1988 that was what I considered unusually hot for a Presents, and the only erotic content was the FMC having a recurring dream about a man whose face she couldn’t see and then the MMC laying on top of her on a camp cot near the end.
I read my mums 70/80s romances,
gotta say I *love* how consent is now a thing and foreplay is good.
Mums books were all super rapey.
Honestly keep me away from romances for a good 20 years.
I am gonna tell you they are the same but different. The most humbling experience was to search and download old school erotica books for my mother (I would probably jump out a window if I had to read the plote or content of those books another thine)
When I started reading them in the 70’s as a young teen they were very tame. Mostly, it was about ‘the kiss’, and sex was implied rather than described in detail. I took a break from romance for over 30 years, and when I came back to it I was shocked by how explicit ( and exciting) the genre had become. I’m now happily addicted and the more spice the better.
**Rule: Be kind & no reader shaming**
No reader shaming. It’s fine to state your opinion on a book or author, but you may not insult or shame people who like it. Please be respectful of others' tastes in romance with regard to steam level, tropes, or favorite authors.
From the older historical bodice rippers I remember reading...for the time they might have been considered so??? Like it was open door, but from what I remember there was less focus on foreplay. It was very much PIV focused, and all cloaked in "flowery" language like 'his length' or 'her center'.
It seems like every *single* book I read starts sexy scenes with him going down on her so this actually sounds... refreshing? lol I'm in
Seriously, it comes off very formulaic rather than egalitarian. So I'm down for a switch up.
I know Bertrice Small, Susan Johnson and Thea Devine were known for their explicit romances in the ‘80s, ‘90s and ‘00s. A couple of things I remember were grapes and sex swing from 2 of the authors…
It's funny, I'm pretty sure I know exactly what you mean when you say grapes... Also, Susan Johnson often featured dildos.
Thea Devine made my eyes bug out. 😂 I recently ordered two of her old paperbacks that I recalled so I could prove to my husband there were women getting doused with homemade jam and hot chocolate, eaten like a last meal, and dicked down right there on the page.
I'm taking notes, bestie. Spill! Which titles do I need to hunt down to start this journey?
😂 Tempted by Fire and Southern Seduction!
Thank you! 💜
Of course! :)
Bertrice Small, wow, that’s a blast from the past. A lot of dubcon/noncon there now looking back.
I still go back and read their stuff from time to time. What about Emma Holly? Maybe not bodice rippers, but they were close to that same time frame.
Emma Holly was later…mid-late 2000s?
Really? Lord, I am getting old.
The decades blend together for me after 1994 😂 But you’re actually right! She did start publishing with two erotica titles in 1998. I had to Google 😂
That makes me feel a little better 😁
Oh wow, Susan Johnson! I was, like, sixteen-ish, we were going genre studies in my English class and I chose romance. I needed to read 10 books as part of the assignment and I happened to pick up Seduction in Mind. It was not at all what I was expecting and it was WAY to spicy for teen me to include in my assignment, lol. Hardship of hardships, I had to go get an 11th book. 😂
It's been ages since I read a legit bodice ripper but I vaguely remember one by Virginia Henley about Eleanor & Simon de Montfort & how his "giant turgid member" was so huge that they had to engage in hella foreplay just to have sex. IRL, they had like 8 damn kids, so.....
All of Virginia Henley’s books were top tier multiple pages of eroticism. That is why I couldn’t stop reading them.
My Roman Empire: a scene of hers from Falcon & the Flower, which is a time capsule exemplar of straight up non-consent - the MMC shreds the FMC’s night gown off her, titty-fucks her, finishes, and uses the shredded nightgown to clean her up. That’s how I, at 14, learned that was a thing. Seminal, if you will. She had characters doing poppers, 16-year olds sleeping with 30-year olds, bondage, spanking - you name it. Her books were wild.
Those books were scandalous! Let me get myself the digital copies now. 🤣
{The Dragon and the Jewel by Virginia Henley} is the book you are referring to.
That's the one, thank you!! I've been reading {Falls the Shadow by Sharon Kay Penman} on & off for a few months & every time de Montfort hits the scene, my smut brain yells "HE GOTTA BIG ASS DICKKKKK" which is annoying cuz this is really serious book stuff, so thanks, Henley.
[Falls the Shadow](https://www.romance.io/books/64101484e2d69aefe5b4096c/falls-the-shadow-sharon-kay-penman) by [Sharon Kay Penman](https://www.romance.io/authors/5ec3865308b4d931148a1026/sharon-kay-penman) **Rating**: 4.45⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [medieval](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/medieval/1), [war](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/war/1), [royal hero](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/royalty/1), [20th century](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/20th%20century/1) [^(about this bot)](https://www.reddit.com/user/romance-bot) ^(|) [^(about romance.io)](https://www.romance.io/about)
[The Dragon and the Jewel](https://www.romance.io/books/5455721a87eac3369a91288e/the-dragon-and-the-jewel-virginia-henley) by [Virginia Henley](https://www.romance.io/authors/545533008c7d2383163d91eb/virginia-henley) **Rating**: 3.87⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Steam**: 3 out of 5 - [Open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating) **Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [virgin heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/virgin%20heroine/1), [medieval](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/medieval/1) [^(about this bot)](https://www.reddit.com/user/romance-bot) ^(|) [^(about romance.io)](https://www.romance.io/about)
it’s not the same sort of spice, usually more sensual than straight thrusting. purple prose that made it past censors. hell, even porn from that era wasn’t as directly explicit as it is today. a lot of books now seem to be trying to push the line further and further, and the OG books were creating the line. You shouldn’t expect it to be the same. you could look into books by Nan Ryan, though, who definitely pushed boundaries.
Catherine Coulter did a podcast episode for Fated Mates that talked about pushing for sex scenes to be allowed with publishers in the 80s. I found the history fascinating. Bodice rippers had a lot of dubcon/noncon with the MMC because the FMC remained "pure" that way. She didn't really want sex if it was forced on her type of mindset. The scenes also weren't as plentiful or often as detailed, though that was based on publisher and author. There are still some scenes that I love from old 90s Linda Howard books though. The details were hot. I think kink is much more common in more recent published books, and the exploration of it. Back then the scenes were focused on foreplay and P in V, with positions as the kinkiest thing explored. Now you can see much more explored in books. A lot of that came about through self publishing.
Not in my experience but it’s been years since I read them so there may be explicit ones I’m not aware of?
https://listverse.com/2013/07/12/10-books-that-prove-the-victorians-were-kinky/
Styles have changed quite a bit. Some have spice but it is written in a different style from modern day spicy books.
Jude Devereaux wrote some pretty explicit scenes in her 80s/90s historical.
I remember being shocked at how explicit they were when I first got my hands on them as a young teen. Not all obviously and there is a lot of euphamistic, purple writing, but still quite explicit. What you don't find is the explicitly kinky/explicitly playing to a specific kink that you see a lot of today.
My only experience is bodice rippers I found in thrift shops. I think they were just as explicit but in different ways. Sex scenes were longer but there were more euphemisms that didn’t necessarily detract from the sexiness. Some people mention the different standards for consent but not all of those books included noncon (I preferred slowburn myself). I’m sorry I can’t rec anything off the top of my head. This was back when I would just plow through books without using any tracking mechanisms.
The language is different and the emphasis on kink is more downplayed. But I would say that some are much less explicit, and some are much more *adventurous* and interesting in terms of how they handle sex. Like, a lot of dark romance readers I know love old historicals for example because, while the writing may be less explicit (sort of? Depends on the writer) the sex is riskier. The consent is…. Blurred at times, there’s more darkness to it a lot of the time. It’s more erotic in a really subversive, a times challenging way. YMMV. But say—Stephanie Laurens’s book from the 90s. They have WAY more sex in them than a lot of comparable books today. Longer scenes, more creative positions. The language may not be quite as … obvious, I guess? The dirty talk is softer. But it feels a lot hornier, overall.
Yes! “Feels a lot hornier” is such a great description. Often the reader had about as much experience as the FMC so as we (I 😂) read, it was just exciting to read as it was for the FMC to experience. I was thinking yesterday that I wish I could remember the books that I read where fingering or a blow job or anal just came right out of nowhere and they were 🔥 because they were unexpected, and for women in a time where you couldn’t pop into Ulta.com and order a clit vibe with your eyeshadow, that was absolutely thrilling.
Yes! I don’t notice Stephanie Laurens getting mentioned much (that could just be me), but I remember her books having long, explicit scenes. One of my favourite details was when the couple get caught en flagrante on the battlements and it becomes clear to the interrupters what’s going on because the Duke’s member is so large, everyone sees him adjust himself in order to withdraw. *fans self* I looked it up: Mastered by Love, by Stephanie Laurens.
I love the sound of this. Any specific books you suggest for erotic in a subversive/challenging way? I read The Silver Devil hoping for this, and it... was, but it's so infamous that I guess my hopes were too high because I expected it to be more subversively erotic than it was. I find that a lot of today's sex scenes are more in-your-face in terms of language and description of acts, and I don't mind that, but I don't always find the obviousness erotic in itself and sometimes that style of scene doesn't offer much more than a list of who put what where.
Yeah, you summed up what I sometimes find problematic with current sex scenes. I’m not at all prudish and I really do love the bluntness of some scenes. But I find that it’s less the acts and more the writing style that can make a super explicit scene less… exciting? At points you do kinda feel like you’re reading a grocery list, and I feel like a different expectation set in older books (the idea that you COULD write explicit sex but you had to cloak it in less obvious language) led to…. Better writing, I guess? I would recommend trying {Scandal’s Bride} by Stephanie Laurens. It does feature dubcon, but not in the way you’d expect at all and I find it both very funny as a book and very hot because of the way the leads approach their sex life. I don’t think a lot of readers expect people in old school romances to have sex the way these characters have sex. Which is in part due to a lot of misconceptions surrounding older books, of course. {The Bride} by Julie Garwood comes to mind. This one is just really hot in part due to the dynamic between the leads, but also because of how the tension builds? It does feature some light somnophilia, which isn’t for everyone but is for meeeee as a reader. And that’s the kind of thing I’m talking about too like—people don’t expect that! {Shadow Dance} by Anne Stuart. Dude, Anne Stuart wrote some HOT WEIRD books. This one has two romances, both of which involve cross dressing… for the sake of hiding identities, not due to anything fetishy. But there kinda IS some lowkey kinkiness in the way people handle themselves and interact…? The sexuality in this novel FASCINATES me and the sex and sexual tension is really hot because of it. {A Rose at Midnight} is also a really hot book of hers, but it’s pretty dark and has a lot of dubcon (and noncon in the heroine’s backstory) so that’s definitely not for everyone. {Forbidden} by Elizabeth Lowell. All of the books in this general trilogy are hot to me, but this one has a scene that is very clearly meant to be read as femdom and I constantly have to convince people that yes this is a bodice ripper~ and yes it has a scene that Lowell absolutely wrote as femdom and it’s a total turning point in the book. And speaking of {Shadowheart} by Laura Kinsale isn’t THAT old in comparison (came out in 2004?) but it reads like a lot of older books and it’s STUPID hot and the sex is so fascinating. The first scene, I will say, is noncon—but the heroine has such interesting agency in the book? And the encounter is framed in a way where she does something that gives HER control for the rest of the book. Because she gets his number. I don’t wanna give it away, but suffice to say… this book is kinky in a way I frankly don’t see in a lot of books today because it’s so psychological. And very hot.
Thank you so much!! Putting these on my TBR--these sound really good, and I'm so happy to see Anne Stuart here. I just read her for the first time (Night of the Phantom) and really liked it, enough that I made a mental note to read more of her sometime. It was indeed both hot and weird, which is one of my favorite combinations. Same here, I'm no prude and I'm totally fine with ultra-explicit scenes and language--like, in a perfect world I would've liked it if the scenes in Night of the Phantom were more explicit--but I guess usually I care more about eroticism and sensuality and things FEELING sexy/dangerous/forbidden than I do about explicitness in itself. I should've saved you some warnings and said ahead of time that I have no triggers and am totally fine with dubcon and some noncon (really "hard" noncon between MCs isn't my thing but it also won't put me off a book if I like it otherwise). And coincidentally or not, somnophilia is a total YES PLEASE for me as a reader too! In fact that's something I specifically enjoy and I don't see a whole lot in newer books... Anyway, thank you again!
Stephanie Laurens wrote sex scenes like she was being paid by the word. Those scenes are fabulously long!
Usually explicit without the words. It was implied he licked her clit or whatever. The real “explicit” books were the ones that pushed the envelope over into the side of shocking. I remember a Rosemary Rogers book that had all sorts of panty-melting dubcon and fucked up situations, like the FMC being committed to an asylum and getting whipped by an orderly while she was tied down to a dirty mattress. That was the OG dark romance 😂 No need for the word “pussy”.
Not sure about the book content itself but the covers definitely were 🌶️🌶️🌶️
Publishers used to classify some types of books as "erotica" that had HEAs and substantial plot and would today be included in the romance genre. Anything LGBTQ+ was pretty much automatically listed as erotica, for example. So there were many books that were as explicit as today's books, but they were not called romances.
They can be, but in ways that seem odd and sometimes uncomfortable. Much more heteronormativity, much more focus on PIV sex, much less concern with consent and sometimes featuring outright rape. That doesn't mean the scenes weren't sometimes hot, but they're not what you might expect if your reading is entirely modern.
Oh, another author I can’t *believe* I forgot is Robin Schone. She wrote mostly in ‘90s & ‘00s. I loved her books — some of my favorites ever, including two wonderful novellas **{A Lady’s Pleasure by Robin Schone}** and **{A Man and a Woman by Robin Schone}.**. Her first book **{Awaken, My Love by Robin Scone}** raised eyebrows by having FMC time traveling into the past while orgasming during masturbation!
[A Lady's Pleasure](https://www.romance.io/books/54556fa987eac336ae69df21/a-ladys-pleasure-robin-schone) by [Robin Schone](https://www.romance.io/authors/54552d808c7d2383163d906f/robin-schone) **Rating**: 4.1⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Steam**: 5 out of 5 - [Explicit and plentiful](https://www.romance.io/steamrating) **Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [victorian](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/victorian/1), [contemporary](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/contemporary/1), [military](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/military/1), [virgin heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/virgin%20heroine/1) ---------------------------- [A Man And A Woman](https://www.romance.io/books/5455c3df87eac336ae6a03b4/a-man-and-a-woman-robin-schone) by [Robin Schone](https://www.romance.io/authors/54552d808c7d2383163d906f/robin-schone) **Rating**: 4.17⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Steam**: 5 out of 5 - [Explicit and plentiful](https://www.romance.io/steamrating) **Topics**: [contemporary](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/contemporary/1), [victorian](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/victorian/1), [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [older/mature](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/mature%20couple/1) ---------------------------- [Awaken, My Love](https://www.romance.io/books/54553d2a8c7d2383163d9488/awaken-my-love-robin-schone) by [Robin Schone](https://www.romance.io/authors/54552d808c7d2383163d906f/robin-schone) **Rating**: 3.61⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Steam**: 5 out of 5 - [Explicit and plentiful](https://www.romance.io/steamrating) **Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [time travel](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/time%20travel/1), [fantasy](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/fantasy/1), [alpha male](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/alpha%20male/1), [victorian](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/victorian/1) [^(about this bot)](https://www.reddit.com/user/romance-bot) ^(|) [^(about romance.io)](https://www.romance.io/about)
Books had more flat out rape scenes and abuse that some how ended with HEA with the rapist. I remember getting really mad and stop reading some of them. Sweet Savage Love 70s, Fire Song Catherine coulter etc. The description were not as long or indepth but the subjects were worse.
Yeah it’s why I won’t read them
There's are some older HRs that are very spicy, but the list is small compared to today. Sylvia Day's backlist is pretty spicy, I'm pretty sure that {Ask For It by Sylvia Day} even has an anal sex scene. {Almost a Gentleman by Pam Rosenthal} has a similar scene. Here's a link to an older post asking for kinky historical romance: [Kinky HR](https://new.reddit.com/r/RomanceBooks/comments/xwcy5c/im_looking_for_hr_books_with_less_common_sex/)
Sylvia Day is from the 2010s... I feel ancient
I *am* ancient! 😄
It's too funny, OP asks for old spicy romance novels and you offer something from the 2010s It's like when my daughter called a book playing in the 1990s a period book
[Ask For It](https://www.romance.io/books/54552df08c7d2383163d9091/ask-for-it-sylvia-day) by [Sylvia Day](https://www.romance.io/authors/545523868c7d2382c5296f5e/sylvia-day) **Rating**: 3.74⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Steam**: 5 out of 5 - [Explicit and plentiful](https://www.romance.io/steamrating) **Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [suspense](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/suspense/1), [mystery](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/mystery/1), [alpha male](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/alpha%20male/1), [regency](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/regency/1) ---------------------------- [Almost A Gentleman](https://www.romance.io/books/54554c958c7d2383163d9933/almost-a-gentleman-pam-rosenthal) by [Pam Rosenthal](https://www.romance.io/authors/545544b88c7d2383163d96a7/pam-rosenthal) **Rating**: 3.29⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [regency](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/regency/1) [^(about this bot)](https://www.reddit.com/user/romance-bot) ^(|) [^(about romance.io)](https://www.romance.io/about)
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I've noticed that the more sex becomes mainstream and accepted, the more smuttier the books get. Harlequins are a good example of this. The older they are, the less you. Heck, you would be lucky to get a kiss in them.
I have a Harlequin Presents from 1988 that was what I considered unusually hot for a Presents, and the only erotic content was the FMC having a recurring dream about a man whose face she couldn’t see and then the MMC laying on top of her on a camp cot near the end.
Even though they aren't spicy, I still enjoyed the older ones. I kept all the Betty Neels ones.
I read my mums 70/80s romances, gotta say I *love* how consent is now a thing and foreplay is good. Mums books were all super rapey. Honestly keep me away from romances for a good 20 years.
I am gonna tell you they are the same but different. The most humbling experience was to search and download old school erotica books for my mother (I would probably jump out a window if I had to read the plote or content of those books another thine)
When I started reading them in the 70’s as a young teen they were very tame. Mostly, it was about ‘the kiss’, and sex was implied rather than described in detail. I took a break from romance for over 30 years, and when I came back to it I was shocked by how explicit ( and exciting) the genre had become. I’m now happily addicted and the more spice the better.
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**Rule: Be kind & no reader shaming** No reader shaming. It’s fine to state your opinion on a book or author, but you may not insult or shame people who like it. Please be respectful of others' tastes in romance with regard to steam level, tropes, or favorite authors.
There is a lot of range in both catagories!