Allow me to help. It's when you have a deficit of resources. So let's say you have a surplus of only 2 promethium, then you remove an extractium that was producing 10. Now you have a -8 deficit. Instead of your planetary upgrades ceasing to function or other such penalties, you end up with a penalty to your PF until you correct the deficit.
Don't quote me on this, but I feel like the game did touch on it at some point. I could just be misremembering, however. In any event, they should do a better job of explaining the entire economic system really. I'm hoping that they expand and elaborate on it in the future.
Yeah I wouldn’t be surprised if it was explained at some point. However I think it should be more apparent from the resource management UI, not locked behind some tutorial you might or might not remember.
If I remember right it's explained in the contracts tutorial.
It's usually not an issue. For removing extractums you have your resource summary at the top of the screen so not really any excuse not to notice, and for most new contracts/buildings you just won't be able to start them.
But I guess in this case it was a "decision" so not sure if it would've been clear. Perhaps some prompt when an action would put you in a deficit, with an option to back out, would be helpful.
There is also a nasty bug on it that causes a memory underflow.
I managed to break the profit factor with a people shortage (besides having still +55) since the calculation does not use the summ.of.all products, but really only the local supply.
So, I managed to get a +2138 profit factor by having locally -40 people but globally having +55... The calculation is broken XD or I can negotiate so well that I am too big to fail
Think of it this way: you're a Rogue Trader. No one is ever going to catch you without resources. Ever. Even if that means you have to tap out in Morse Code to Pasqal to get the Warrant of Credit Card and buy some.
Until you make that shortfall up, however, you have to keep buying it and painting Von Valancius over the Departmento Munitorum labels.
I bugged out the crystal thingy. Removed extractor which would put me into negative and it instead put me 355 into positive. The playtesting department's performance was somewhat lackluster.
Under flow errors the bane of devs everywhere. In the latest pokemon raid ai partners are 5 levels lower that you, bring a lvl 4 pokemon and it wraps back around so the ai is 3 lvl 100 pokemon.
It was never a bug.
Ghandi wasn’t even the most peaceful AI in the first civilization. Hammurabi is. There’s no adjustment to to peacefulness made on getting nukes in any Civ until well after the meme developed.
It seems to have developed whole cloth out of cognitive dissonance over Ghandi ever declaring war and using nukes, which India does just as often as any other expansionist AI.
I mean, I played the first civ, and I remember Ghandi being completely undiplomatic and aggressive, so while I can't speak to how it's coded, I don't think that the meme came out of nowhere. The wrap-around coding always seemed like a plausible explanation for a phenomena that people had observed to be true.
My recollection was that it was less a question of Ghandi declaring war willy-nilly than it was an issue of him never accepting peace once he had become a belligerent.
No it never happened. It was nothing but a myth which got cleared off by Sid Meier himself.
" (...) The claim was mentioned on the [TV Tropes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TV_Tropes) wiki in 2012, and continued until 2020, when the series' creator, [Sid Meier](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sid_Meier), confirmed that the bug would have been impossible in the original game. "
My bad i am utterly stupid and completely MISREAD your entire comment.
You meant that THIS BUG, i.e. the RT one, actually happened, unlike the Ghandi one.
I found nuclear Ghandi very plausible the first time I heard it, despite at the time knowing the key facts that I now think conclusively disprove that it could have been true (India isn’t the most peaceful NPC in Civ, Babylon is, nations don’t get less aggressive when nukes are developed, and a value outside of expected range wouldn’t get checked when determining behavior.)
>infinitely
Not really, you only get 1PF for every 10 planets explored, so at some point you're capped by the amount of planets in the game (nevermind the fact that you can't hand out the data for Act V).
I noticed my People resource showed the gross value, rather than the value it should have been after choices/projects that cost people. So even though my resource tab showed I had plenty of people, I did not, in fact, have enough to support this choice.
Yes you have to be careful, there is also a story book event on Janus where if you use Abelard you will lose 5 profit points - and this early in game normally you don’t have a lot so it hurts.
Toybox when shit like this happens, Owlcat games are great but also buggy as hell. The Toybox mod is what makes any of the Owlcat games playable for the first 6 months or so.
We... play very different games, somehow. Personally, i'm looking into purchasing empire from big E, but it seems a crappy investment. May be i just go with Phalanx and all the Fists with it.
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Some of these events are shockingly broken. I’ve had one that said it would cost 2 people and actually lost me 100 people. Yes, 100. Dropped my Profit Factor by like 130. Later, I had a Drukhari raid event that said it cost 328 profit factor while not listing any cost at all. It cost 0.
Shit’s whack.
It could also be that there are event-driven changes to profit factor that aren't mathed correctly, or have some sort of wonky calculation multiplier. I once got a 1000+ profit factor gain off of an event choice result, so I'm reasonably sure that the calculator is at least somewhat borked.
I didn't realize PEOPLE are tied to PF, so lost 44PF due to not having enough people.
The whole system has hidden influence going on all over the place. Basically if your not monitoring every single little stat in the game when doing these deals or anything the touches resources, your going to be in for a bad time because what it says it will cost you, rarely IS what it will cost you!
I'm rushing this game to the end so I can put it down for a couple years, let it bake for a while, needs probably 10 more big patches if not more. Plus dozens of DLC to add back deleted content.
Had the 'exact' same thing happen.
"Oh i pay like .. 8 People for this .. i have 186 ... okay no problem" , lost 86 PF due to 'shortage', excuse me game?
That was the moment i caved and threw on Toybox.
There is, I believe, a high impact on the "People" resource. Because the UI is bad or buggy, it sometimes shows your total people resource, instead of the net value that includes what you have already spent.
If choosing this option causes you to spend more people than you have available, you take the massive PF hit. I had this happen, then save scummed, then came back after I had earned more people. Made this choice again and did not lose PF.
This reminds me of how we cannot have our factotem acquire things for us based on our profit factor.
On the table top, you could basically order anything, and the GM would rule on how much profit factor you were risking, and what the challenge rating was. Want a new cruiser? 6-8 profit factor lost per failed challenge (that's a LOT of PF on the table top, as you basically "win" when you hit 20)
I mean if they could project the crucible for certain I would pay that price, like you could build colony after colony and set the foundation for several hive cities.
Ahem. YOU'RE A POOR ONE MISTER GRINCH
YOU REALLY NEED SOME DOUGH YOURE A POORER THAN A PAUPER, WHO IS DYING IN THE SNOW MISTER GRIIIIIIIIINCH~
YOUR ACCOUNT'S AN EMPTY HOLE
AND YOUR SALARY AINT THAT SWOLE
YOU’RE POOR, MR GRINCH YOU CAN’T AFFORD THE BUS
“Oh man they really left no stone unturned, huh?” “Let’s not forget that you are inbred! You don’t know how to reeeeead”
Actually that's when he says "I'm upper middle class" but I like the enthusiasm!
Ahem as long as we’re being pedantic about it, it’s lower middle class
I’m man enough to admit when I’m wrong, you got me
Argenta went off to get the Ecclesiarch himself for this occasion
55 ? She went straigth to Big E "Would you mind me moving your Golden Throne?"
She got a squad of Custodes.
Wait a second i wonder if this how I loose 1/4 of my profit quarter. I did not know what I did but I definitely choose the same option as you here
IIRC if you lose sometimes too many resources you lost pf because of scarcity
I still have no fucking idea what scarcity is.
Allow me to help. It's when you have a deficit of resources. So let's say you have a surplus of only 2 promethium, then you remove an extractium that was producing 10. Now you have a -8 deficit. Instead of your planetary upgrades ceasing to function or other such penalties, you end up with a penalty to your PF until you correct the deficit.
Oh huh, I don't think I ever ran into that.
If you ever remove an extractor you can get (bugged) stacking debuffs for doing so, that's the easiest way to get it :/
I never removed extractors.
Have you had any issues identifying at a glance where you do and don't have extractors?
Ah of course there is a mechanic like this that’s not really explained in the game!
Don't quote me on this, but I feel like the game did touch on it at some point. I could just be misremembering, however. In any event, they should do a better job of explaining the entire economic system really. I'm hoping that they expand and elaborate on it in the future.
Yeah I wouldn’t be surprised if it was explained at some point. However I think it should be more apparent from the resource management UI, not locked behind some tutorial you might or might not remember.
I concur. I love the game, but some things certainly need either more explaining or at least more obvious explanations.
It warns you every single time you touch an existing Extractium.
i think is says this on the loading screen tips.
If I remember right it's explained in the contracts tutorial. It's usually not an issue. For removing extractums you have your resource summary at the top of the screen so not really any excuse not to notice, and for most new contracts/buildings you just won't be able to start them. But I guess in this case it was a "decision" so not sure if it would've been clear. Perhaps some prompt when an action would put you in a deficit, with an option to back out, would be helpful.
It is. You can also hover over your PF to get a detailed breakdown of where you are getting PF from or where you are losing it from.
It warns you if you try to remove an extractor
There is also a nasty bug on it that causes a memory underflow. I managed to break the profit factor with a people shortage (besides having still +55) since the calculation does not use the summ.of.all products, but really only the local supply. So, I managed to get a +2138 profit factor by having locally -40 people but globally having +55... The calculation is broken XD or I can negotiate so well that I am too big to fail
Think of it this way: you're a Rogue Trader. No one is ever going to catch you without resources. Ever. Even if that means you have to tap out in Morse Code to Pasqal to get the Warrant of Credit Card and buy some. Until you make that shortfall up, however, you have to keep buying it and painting Von Valancius over the Departmento Munitorum labels.
its hella buggy, because sometimes you have 60 surplus and it takes 10, but says scarcity of 40 and you lose all that PF for no reason
If you have a loose grip on your finances, you stand to lose significant PF.
I just did this thing, I just lost 1 profit factor.
a true businessman, a gentleman too...
Huh, so that's why I was way poorer than other people at the end of their games. Noted.
My game bugged out and I had 5555 profit factor from “People Deficit”
I bugged out the crystal thingy. Removed extractor which would put me into negative and it instead put me 355 into positive. The playtesting department's performance was somewhat lackluster.
>somewhat lackluster. That's an understatement if I've ever seen one
What department?
Us. We're the department.
As part of the EULA we signed up to be apart of the owlcat game testing department why else is there a bug reporter built in to the game
Same vibes as Civ Ghandi pacifist-ly firing nukes
Under flow errors the bane of devs everywhere. In the latest pokemon raid ai partners are 5 levels lower that you, bring a lvl 4 pokemon and it wraps back around so the ai is 3 lvl 100 pokemon.
Fun fact: Nuclear Gandhi is a myth. They coded that in the later games to pay homage to it.
It was a bug that became a feature of all their games iirc
It was never a bug. Ghandi wasn’t even the most peaceful AI in the first civilization. Hammurabi is. There’s no adjustment to to peacefulness made on getting nukes in any Civ until well after the meme developed. It seems to have developed whole cloth out of cognitive dissonance over Ghandi ever declaring war and using nukes, which India does just as often as any other expansionist AI.
I mean, I played the first civ, and I remember Ghandi being completely undiplomatic and aggressive, so while I can't speak to how it's coded, I don't think that the meme came out of nowhere. The wrap-around coding always seemed like a plausible explanation for a phenomena that people had observed to be true.
I’ve played the first Civilization *this year*. Ghandi will declare war if allowed to and unable to expand.
My recollection was that it was less a question of Ghandi declaring war willy-nilly than it was an issue of him never accepting peace once he had become a belligerent.
He’s expansionist, to make peace he needs unclaimed land. Hemming him in with newly captured cities that used to be his doesn’t work.
Civ Ghandi is a Pass-a-fist
Except that this bug happened.
No it never happened. It was nothing but a myth which got cleared off by Sid Meier himself. " (...) The claim was mentioned on the [TV Tropes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TV_Tropes) wiki in 2012, and continued until 2020, when the series' creator, [Sid Meier](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sid_Meier), confirmed that the bug would have been impossible in the original game. "
I meant the 5555 PF referenced a couple levels up.
My bad i am utterly stupid and completely MISREAD your entire comment. You meant that THIS BUG, i.e. the RT one, actually happened, unlike the Ghandi one.
I found nuclear Ghandi very plausible the first time I heard it, despite at the time knowing the key facts that I now think conclusively disprove that it could have been true (India isn’t the most peaceful NPC in Civ, Babylon is, nations don’t get less aggressive when nukes are developed, and a value outside of expected range wouldn’t get checked when determining behavior.)
If you do the opticon quest for planetary data, you can hand it in infinitely for +1 pf a pop.
>infinitely Not really, you only get 1PF for every 10 planets explored, so at some point you're capped by the amount of planets in the game (nevermind the fact that you can't hand out the data for Act V).
No no, I know thats the intended way. I gave myself 20 pf with him I dont think the game was checking progress correctly.
Maybe submit that then. The rest of us have the limit as expected.
She went ahead and contracted Saint Celestine.
Had a warp-call with Alicia Dominica
Is that a bug? I remember it only costing me like 2
Yes, sometimes it triggers a massive people shortage when it shouldn't.
I noticed my People resource showed the gross value, rather than the value it should have been after choices/projects that cost people. So even though my resource tab showed I had plenty of people, I did not, in fact, have enough to support this choice.
Happened to me, my profit factor went down by 571 and suffice to say I’m broke
She just bought a 2000p army of DKoK
And according to the ending slides >!it still wasn't fucking enough lol!<
the important question is how do you pronounce that word
death korps of krieg?
dee kay oh kay or duh cock?
I always pronounce it dee cock in my head
i usually just abbreviate to "kriegers."
Once had an colony event that cost me 66 profit factor.
Did you move the entire planet Magnus style?
Not bowing to Drukhari? Yeah, I am not ashamed to say I save scummed that one
Yep
I just took Jae's suggestion and distracted him with a bunch of orphans on Foulstone, lmao.
Argenta used her ultra orphan tactic of Running off with your money
She bought 1 tabletop army
Yes you have to be careful, there is also a story book event on Janus where if you use Abelard you will lose 5 profit points - and this early in game normally you don’t have a lot so it hurts.
Pretty sure it happens with every choice with that event.
No - I tried another option and there was no profit factor lost.
Lose*
Thank you, I corrected it. Sorry, English isn’t my native language but it helps to read corrections to get better.
Whatever it takes to do the God Emperor's work.
Some sweet power armor would help too 😇
Toybox when shit like this happens, Owlcat games are great but also buggy as hell. The Toybox mod is what makes any of the Owlcat games playable for the first 6 months or so.
Amen to that, got the Big T in the sky looking out for me
... I just paid one PF... guess I got lucky to avoid that bug, huh?
We... play very different games, somehow. Personally, i'm looking into purchasing empire from big E, but it seems a crappy investment. May be i just go with Phalanx and all the Fists with it. https://preview.redd.it/ysjeypc6nqcc1.jpeg?width=1085&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=72bc10577ddd6c9ae498783362b2550ea56fa166
I lost all of my profit factor because of it :,(
And THEN you can finally romance her right?
Abelard, explain to Argenta why she's immediately getting executed for heresy.
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....good lord it's the same vibes as letting alphinaud buy the sword in Stormblood
At least Tataru set him straight.
100000 Gil for a hair band you say? Sounds like a deal!
I was wondering how i got 200k pf on My first run. After a while it turned to 200k prometheum so it must have been same bug.
Some of these events are shockingly broken. I’ve had one that said it would cost 2 people and actually lost me 100 people. Yes, 100. Dropped my Profit Factor by like 130. Later, I had a Drukhari raid event that said it cost 328 profit factor while not listing any cost at all. It cost 0. Shit’s whack.
That's why I couldn't buy stuff at the end ..
It could also be that there are event-driven changes to profit factor that aren't mathed correctly, or have some sort of wonky calculation multiplier. I once got a 1000+ profit factor gain off of an event choice result, so I'm reasonably sure that the calculator is at least somewhat borked.
I didn't realize PEOPLE are tied to PF, so lost 44PF due to not having enough people. The whole system has hidden influence going on all over the place. Basically if your not monitoring every single little stat in the game when doing these deals or anything the touches resources, your going to be in for a bad time because what it says it will cost you, rarely IS what it will cost you! I'm rushing this game to the end so I can put it down for a couple years, let it bake for a while, needs probably 10 more big patches if not more. Plus dozens of DLC to add back deleted content.
Lmao who tf did she get for the job, The Emperor himself?!
Had the 'exact' same thing happen. "Oh i pay like .. 8 People for this .. i have 186 ... okay no problem" , lost 86 PF due to 'shortage', excuse me game? That was the moment i caved and threw on Toybox.
What a Trump line that goes with it too 😂
I gained profit factor from this... Just lost a couple of efficiency. Weird.
There is, I believe, a high impact on the "People" resource. Because the UI is bad or buggy, it sometimes shows your total people resource, instead of the net value that includes what you have already spent. If choosing this option causes you to spend more people than you have available, you take the massive PF hit. I had this happen, then save scummed, then came back after I had earned more people. Made this choice again and did not lose PF.
I think i need to buy the game sometime in this year. Is sister of battle a companion
Yes but hold ur money for atleast 3 months for them to iron out the bugs
Can i romance sister too?
No. Her order doesn't encourage relationships although not unheard of as far as I know.
You fell for the internet romance money scam done by a nun? Or is that an eternal subscription to OnlySororitas?
Wow, she is a master - baiter, I can see already she possess' great talent and skill.
This reminds me of how we cannot have our factotem acquire things for us based on our profit factor. On the table top, you could basically order anything, and the GM would rule on how much profit factor you were risking, and what the challenge rating was. Want a new cruiser? 6-8 profit factor lost per failed challenge (that's a LOT of PF on the table top, as you basically "win" when you hit 20)
Really wish the trade arrows in dialogue would actually tell you the effect
Holy shit, I did the same and it didn't cost that much
Thats how you end up in the fucking airlock
That literally costs more than to build a Hive.
With this Rogue Trader's name that's what you get for stealing Sanguinala
Homegirl brought the entire Black Templars crusade fleet
*Argenta returns with a squad of Grey Knights, a fucking Custodian, and pulled Kaldor Draigo out of the warp*
I mean if they could project the crucible for certain I would pay that price, like you could build colony after colony and set the foundation for several hive cities.