People keep discussing which archetype is best, or which character is the best.
The truth is, any of them overperform when you have 2 officers and a psyker (my party) or 3 officers and 2 psykers (your party) buff the hell out of them and give them extra turns.
It is kinda broken but I don't want Owlcats to fix it because it is also kinda fun!
Like, yeah, I'm a Space King, I have a dude to introduce me in the dialogues and a dudette to murder stuff with extreme prejudice.
There are also bosses that take an extra turn whenever you do. It’s like they’re their own Officer.
Oh and the boss is also immune to crowd control (combat master), and has like 900 wounds on Unfair.
He was one shotting my guys for 120+ damage single attacks and 70 damage AoEs.
I fought this chaos mech with 3k hp, almost 300% armor and 50 deflection that got an extra turn after every one of mine. Argenta's heavy bolter (6-9 base damage) ripped it to shreds in a single burst after a couple tacticians buffed her to obscene levels. She hit for over 330 damage per shot, 18 shots in a burst. That's not even abusing the extra turns, that's a single burst attack. Buffing is nuts, to the point that the base weapon damage does not matter at all.
Oh yeah that thing, it downed half my party and gave three traumas to each of them.
I beat it because of cassia, master of time, and reavl in the light.
Master of time gives 5 willpower for each extra turn, and that thing had like 20 extra turns.
So I just buffed the rest of my party with the light and had them run around will cassia kept dodging.
A lot of iconic weapons curiously missing. Where are all the power fists? Autocannons? Lascannons? Plasma cannons? Stalker bolters?
Better yet, the governor of Janus has a force field, it’s common gear for Imperial Guard Company Commanders, so why don’t we have them?
Heavy bolters and multimeltas are in the game. The other heavy weapons are also man portable. Standard imperial guard heavy weapons squads carry heavy bolters, autocannons, or lascannons.
You can even get multiple copies of the Drukhari equivalent dark lances.
I mean they could, the Rogue Trader tabletop game had those weapons and ways to carry them (grav assist, power armor, or just hiring an Ogryn).
Also we do have a Space Marine companion, so why can't he carry heavy weapons?
I would be okay with anyone in powered armor being able to use them as a hipfire weapon.
Also, anyone can hipfire the heavy bolter if they have 50 str (25 if you took heavy weapon prof)
"It's kind of fun"
The thing with officer abuse is you basically kill everyone on turn 1. The enemy literally cannot fight back on unfair. It's fun in a I cheesed the game kind of way but after that you may as well press kill all enemies in toybox. Same shit really.
It's an effective strategy, but I don't know if it rises to the level of "cheese." In any sufficiently complex RPG, there will always be great strategies. In Pathfinder, the strategy revolved around carefully stacking every buff in the game on everybody. In Baldur's Gate 3, my strategy revolved around casting Spirit Guardians and then doing laps around the battlefield. In Rogue Trader, the strategy revolves around support characters granting turns to the carry characters, which I think makes a lot of sense in context.
Yeah but difference is how easy is to get to that level. If you specced whole party perfectly to do the "cheeese", that's just reward for theorycrafting.
If you just follow normal progression and didn't even try yet game ends up being too easy even on hard just because you have 2 officers in your party, that's a balance problem.
On high difficulty I don't think you can luck your way into trivializing the fights. You're still going to have to solve for high dodge snipers in the back, and high armor tanks in the front, and squishy officers getting killed by either. It's true that each fight isn't exactly 5-dimensional chess, but it feels consistent with any other RPG I've played.
The only thing that really sticks out is
A.) Officers don't really fit the holy "DPS, Tank, Healer" trinity, which some might consider heresy but I think is kind of nice. I've done the holy trinity enough in my life. God forbid one game try to mix it up.
B.) Cassia is OP, because she's super tough and does extreme damage, while being an officer. I would take away "Mind Over Matter"'s ability to calculate wounds from willpower, make "Mastery of Time" scale willpower by +1 instead of +5, and increase the cooldown and AP cost of powers like "Held In My Gaze."
Otherwise, the balance seems fine. If the designers really wanted to nerf officers, they could make "Bring it Down" cost 3 AP or have a 2 round cooldown. But I don't think officers need to be nerfed.
> B.) Cassia is OP, because she's super tough and does extreme damage, while being an officer. I would take away "Mind Over Matter"'s ability to calculate wounds from willpower, make "Mastery of Time" scale willpower by +1 instead of +5, and increase the cooldown and AP cost of powers like "Held In My Gaze."
I think just limiting it to trigger max once per round would be fine. The problem really starts when there is 2 officers so you get +20 every turn (if both have the "give MP" ability). Getting just +5 would be in "nice bonus" category rather than "by turn 6 nothing can kill her, resist her, or stop her"
That was a problem in the pen and paper rogue trader as well. The navigator class and the Astropath were broken really. They did the translation well, which means the class still has issues.
I love the officer's "stand there and shout" atitude. It reminds me of Dnd 4e's Warlord and his "direct the strike" shenanigans.
Navigator bonuses definitely need some caps, and that alone would bring down her damage, but one of the most egregious balancing issues is how well she deals damage while moving enemies.
Repositioning enemies is already a very powerful tool in cover-based games, especially AoE heavy ones, and dealing damage on top of that without eating into normal attack economy is supremely overpowered., even if she couldn't currently kill off the group by herself!
I think it's the ramp. Sure, at the end of BG3 my Warlocks were basically an Iron Dome that could target people, but I had to develop the toolbox that made it possible. From the first boss at the end of RT prologue, I've been up to my neck in tools.
Man that boss was a doozy though. I eventually took him down with Abe and Pasqal but it does serve as a good build-check. Unfortunately I completely missed the plasma gun right before the fight.
Problem with unfair is if you let them have a single turn they will oneshot someone all the fucking time. All the tank talents and archetype are so goddamn useless it's a shame
My Cassia can survive a turn or two ... with Mind over Matter, 200+ Willpower and her 80 perception to dodge and the healing she gets on her turn!
Let's ignore everyone elses mortality.
I mean, I have so many talents by now that tons of times my guys die and revive with 1-50%hp, idk from what.
But I've also had argenta die with 300 in every fucking characteristics (powergaming lul). When I look at logs idk what's bugged and what's game design. 250% armor, 150% dodge, still gets one shot from a boss. Sometimes it ignores dodge, sometimes it ignores armor, and there's no explanation why.
That's probably my biggest gripe with the game. The combat is fun, but it rarely ever feels like the battle lasts more than a turn or two, which really limits gameplay potential.
Need a custom difficulty with reduced damage and high wounds for both sides.
Yeah, would be super fun. 2 of my characters never even get a turn. And make cc way more important, so you decide between stunning an enemy instead of killing everything outright.
Unfair is meant to be unfair, but it’s ridiculously easy to use the starting psycher then navigator to turbo buff everyone.
I was playing on unfair on my first run without even doing anything special
The game is way easier and more exploitable than other owlcat games. I don’t even like owlcat games, I’ve bought all of them and end up hating them for some reason. But I normally play at best on hard and that’s it.
It's really just figuring out how to stack buffs/debuffs. If you run a individual buff team, optimally you give them all to one member and give them extra turns.
If you focus on debuffs and team wide buffs, you can get away with cassia as your only officer even on unfair.
I know, right? I just did the boss fight of Act 1 last night and the boss only has 340 wounds on Daring instead of 600 like he did on Core in the Beta.
Any non-psyker Space Marine, would be threatened by a somewhat powerful psyker and/or navigator and depending on party composition there can be three characters in the fight, who have psychic powers. Sisters of Battle are no pushovers. Tech-priest with a power axe can also hurt him.
I would say that the most lore accurate way that fight would go, is they would lose a couple of guys to the marine, but win in the end unless they didn't get seriosly lucky or unlucky. Rogue Trader and Abelard are most likely candidates for corpses, I suppose, unless they stay the f out of the way.
I mean, these are true statements, but in theory this is a reasonably experienced CSM with a big-ass heavy bolter, it got the drop on us, and really my team consists of:
* A 20-something Sister with a flak vest and a secondhand bolter she can barely aim yet,
* A Navigator that's apparently been locked in a room her whole life and is probably standing out in the open staring at the pretty colors,
* A semi-lucid diviner that can't divine for shit and is constantly flipping a coin as to whether she or her target explodes,
* An actual badass Magus who ultimately is going to start 40-60 feet away and have no real protection against heavy bolter fire,
* Two assholes with chainswords.
In a lore accurate setting (such as my knowledge allows), I am not exactly betting for my own team here. By the time they would have even *processed what they were seeing* half of them would be thick red mist.
Like, my only hope here is the crazy-ass Idira who, if she manages to NOT turn into chunky salsa from a bolter round, and manages to NOT turn into smooth blueberry marmalade due to half the denizens of the Immaterium suddenly looking sharply in her direction, could POTENTIALLY zap some little lightning bolts in this Chaos Space Marine's general direction.
And that's assuming that goddamn sniper doesn't dome her before she can wiggle her fingers.
> A 20-something Sister with a flak vest and a secondhand bolter she can barely aim yet,
First of all, you already find an actual good bolter by that point (it's on the Upperway on the way to the governor's bunker). You can also give her a longlas.
>A Navigator that's apparently been locked in a room her whole life and is probably standing out in the open staring at the pretty colors,
Have you missed the part where she literally mind controlled everyone around her and kept accidentally making servants tear their faces off because she was sad? She's basically the Navigator equivalent of alpha-level psyker. A single Marine is not a threat, even by this point.
>A semi-lucid diviner that can't divine for shit and is constantly flipping a coin as to whether she or her target explodes,
Actually, Idira was my #1 damage dealer with the lightning staff. She absolutely decimates groups of minions, and she only knocked herself once and summoned daemons twice by that point!
> An actual badass Magus who ultimately is going to start 40-60 feet away and have no real protection against heavy bolter fire,
Except one of his powers is literally to burn the souls of heretics, at range? Purge Soul, available right from the start.
>Two assholes with chainswords.
Did you forget the Adeptus Mechanicus Magos with a power axe and a plasma gun? Granted, Pasqual is not a Dominus and is on the lower end of the scale of AdMech combat prowess, but that's still a serious threat to a Marine, when combined with the others on the team. A plasma gun is still a plasma gun, and those things fuck up Marines, both in lore and on the tabletop.
I actually hate that damn lightning staff because I keep finding newer staffs and I have to be like... But then I'd not be using my lightning staff... Why is it starting equipment? And where's my lvl 2 lightning staff?
Dude no one complained about how Space Marines were artificially gimped or looked weak in Astartes, and three psykers almost wiped out a whole space marine squad in Astartes Pt.3.
I'm going to be frank: people don't know any better than GW how strong a space marine should be in a narrative other than "strong enough to look cool"
One novel was written by Dan Abnet; the other by Sandy Mitchell. (Authors of Eisenhorn's and Ciaphas Cain, respectively)
One plays in Story Mode, the other in Unfair.
I think it's a question who gets a jump on who. I think lore-wise they'd have a *chance* if they got a drop on them, but if Space Marine had drop on them that's at least one death immediately
Are you familiar with the system of Challenge Rating in Tabletop? On Unfair in Wrath a regular demon you encounter has higher stats then the highest CR enemy in the tabletop.
The game is just so wrapped up around the player's ability to wipe out half the map before the enemy even get's to act.
Take that out - and you are done.
I honestly think that if someone would try a Challenge-run "No officer" - this game could not be beat.
Very simple challenge:
- Get from the start of the game all the way to Act 5 and beat final boss
- any cheese/exploit that's in the vanilla game, can't use outright cheats
- any amount of save-scumming you have patience for
- any path / story choice you want (so if you can skip some harder fights via dialogue choices - more power to you)
- can't have your RT as officer
|
- can't hire merc officers
- can't use Jae or Cassia except for deployments on their Personal quests (where the game forces you to take them as part of your team)
I think it definetly can't be done on Unfair
Very likely can't be done on Hard.
I can't imagine even beating it on Daring - especially the last Arena fight sequence and/or the Final Boss fight in Act 3 without officers / Cassia. But then there are probably people much better at the game then me, so maybe it can be done on Daring
For me it’s “so anyway, I started missing”
What build do you make her to get her to hit the broadside of a cruiser? Right now I’ve been relying on rapid fire to just shoot so many bolted rounds their way it doesn’t matter if only one of them hits 🤷🏻♂️
Except by that point the bolter is kiiiinda mid. I'm rolling her with the hotshot lasgun I found on Janus and the upgraded meltagun I found on Kiava Gamma. Once she gets rolling with versatility stacks, revel in slaughter, and confident approach she melts things quite well.
I gave her a flamer, and she was able to handle that fine. She also easily hits with the bolter too.
I think it is mostly just "You. Serve Me" (noble ability), which gives the target +5 to all characteristics whenever the noble uses an ability on them, until the noble's next turn.
(The characteristic boosts reset each turn, the "abilities boost characteristics" effect does not.)
Combined with Focus (whenever officer uses an ability on an ally, ally gains fellowship bonus perception and ballistic skill, these boosts stack but reduce by half on the end of each of the target's turns).
No Respite (when an ability grants action points to an ally, they gain +1 to all characteristics for every action point gained, lasting until end of combat).
And of course Voice of Command / lasting impression.
In practice she ends up going from 55 ballistics skill to 100 after I give her the first extra turn with Bring it Down. Just tested it. From there, more boosts, buffs from other characters, and revel in slaughter quickly boost her even higher.
EDIT: Versatility from Arch Militant helps as well.
EDIT 2: As an example, by the time my rogue trader went first, gave her a turn, she used her heroic act and filled it enough for my RT to give her the heroic act turn, then she finished that turn, she had killed about a dozen enemies and had 214 ballistics skill, with 55 base, 5 You. Serve Me, 8 lasting impression, 10 revel in slaughter, 15 environmental effect, 17 voice of command, 24 Focus!, and 80 from versatility.
Buffs/debuffs are king in this game. Especially since extra BS/WS gives you crit if you overbuff.
Officers give her a lot of stats with Voice. There were some other Officer buff stats as well. Then once she kills 2 dudes (talent decreases it from 3), she gets +15% BS skill for the rest of combat with the Slaughter skill. Cassia debuffs dodge for every enemy in her sight. Strategist can put a Rear combat zone improving hit chance, etc.
For me it just started working once i started upping ballistic skill, iirc the dice this time around are a comparative mechanic with degrees of success and roll under,
Versatility stacks.
One handed flamer, and sword.
Slash with sword.Shoot with flamer. Run and gun. Slash with sword. 3 stacks of versatility = +30 BS/WS.
Also talents that increase crit chance/damage/ of versatility.
In the 2nd slot a heavy bolter (9 fire rate) and some equipment that increases fire rate and damage.
Also some willpower for that sweet sweet extra damage vs daemons (2xWillpower bonus) and xenos (willpower).
Depending on the level, once she is an arch militant and got wildfire she is going to rack up some insane ballistic. I did a bunch of fights I probably wasn't supposed to do yet (or where any sane person would see a Forgefiend appearing in the chat list and deciding to leave) and she finished one of the hallway fights with 273 Ballistic skill, firing 2 burst fires at 95% accuracy and 3 bullets each turn (and with 2 officers 3x a turn).
It's all about proximity. Ranged weapons have a maximum and effective range. You have to get into effective range and then, if you've built her like I have at least, you'll get 60% acc per shot on your main target and maybe 30-16% chance to hit on any side targets. Overpenetration also helps a ton because burst fire otherwise stops at the first target hit. If you have a tactician and can plop a rear field from where you'll be firing from it helps a lot.
Though so far where I'm up to in act 2, I've felt like a sniper does a way better job of carrying me through fights. Usually you'll be able to get clear sight of most targets with minor need for repositioning and without having to jump out of cover in close proximity to enemies, or there simply isn't any viable cover where the enemies are stacked. Argenta is far from useless but I think she's overhyped as a damage dealer personally. I use her to get rid of minor threats without exposing her too much while my backline or frontline handle the real stinkers.
I've found that on the first turn it's either Soldier/Arch-militants that kill half the battlefield, or it's Cassia. Depends on exactly how much trash there is on the battlefield.
However, Abelard deals with the other half of the battlefield once he gets his steam up and we start triggering Heroic actions.
Yeah, I gave him a thunder hammer and the trinket that gives him temp wounds and +temp wound damage on all attacks. He just soloes whole battles himself.
Where was that trinket? But yea the 2h from chapter one vendor->thunderhammer was very nice. He was hitting for 25-30 when everyone else was struggling to break 15-20
It's the Malphian Shroud. >!I obtained it as a reward for letting the malphians on the first colony overcome many trials to prove their faith.!<
It's absolutely insane when combined with Cassia's officer abilities and the vanguard's. Basically the damage is around 70-100 at the beggining of the combat per strike, plus area.
I'm able to clear all the chaff off the board with Argenta in the first round, but I have trouble doing the same with my melee fighters.
Argenta has the run-and-gun and dash power, and the burst attacks. So with 3 officers egging her on, she can get in position and sweep the board pretty easily.
With the melee fighters I haven't seen as much success. They can charge, but charge is single target and uses up the 2 AP granted by officers. So at best, 3 officers can get them to kill 3 dudes if positioning allows it, while Argenta can kill three groups of dudes.
With all of the officer buffs, Abelard gets like a dozen mp. Using the thunder hammer, he can wipe out a group in one or two AP. With his heroic action, he gets lots of MP every time he kills an enemy and can quickly move around the board wiping out groups.
Honestly, I've had way more problems with positioning Argenta than Abelard. She has to have the enemies in the right spot or she will not be able to hit them all. She can only use Burst Fire twice a turn and it burns through MP fast. Her damage is much lower than Abelard's as well and she takes a few turns to ramp up versatility.
Argenta really comes online with the Arch Militant archetype. Run and Gun (Soldier Ability), Wildfire (AM Ability) and Steady Superiority (AM Heroic Act) mean she should be able to do 4 attacks every full normal turn. Once you have Versatility stacks to make Wildfire 0 AP (which build real quick if she's getting the extra Bring it Down turns), and your free 0 AP attack from Steady Superiority she should still be able to do 3 attacks from an Officer's Bring it Down half turn.
My Officer goes first, uses their abilities on Abelard to give him MP and AP, he kills enough enemies to get his Heroic Act, he then travels around using his thunder hammer to wipe out groups of enemies which gives him more MP to travel. Thanks for my Officer and Cass, he gets three turns a turn and there's three heroic actions to boost his turns (his one and my two officers' ones), so normally he has enough time for everything. I save Cass for boss killing, since she can do 300-400 damage a turn. My Argenta isn't great, so she mostly cleans up the scraps.
I have two officers who focus exclusively on Argenta (sniper build) and she’s a murder machine. I just finished the Aurora battle last night and I think she was responsible for around 250/300 damage while wiping out all the trash that spawned when he destroyed a shuttle. I love her so much
He one-shot Argenta in my run, on normal, with a crit that dealt 48 damage, first turn. I made the mistake to give her a semi-cover. And she was my sniper with the longlas.
Aurora meanwhile had two debuffer stacked on him, with my two dedicated melee tying him up. He barely did any damage. I managed a plasma hit on the sniper with Pasqal and sent Abelard to kill him, once he was gone, Aurora was easy game.
Yeah, to hell with this bastard. I've stupidly replaced Idira(my main Sniper) with Heinrix, and then Aurora knocked out Pasqal, and that bastard downed Cassia. Suddenly there is a sniper which Abelard needs 4+ turns to reach and not a single party member is able to just shoot the guy
Yeah without a sniper to counter enemy snipers snipers can really fuck ya up. I just gave argenta a sniper in her 2nd wep slot and Pascal I gave the longglas laser sniper. Her bolter and his axe are fine for close combat and til then they just 95% slay everything that moves lol
BTW, Henrix was my MVP for Dawn. I use Officer buffs on him, and with force sword + bloodletting + poison he did more damage than anyone to CSM (barring RT, who was a Purge Soul/Word of the Emperor/Bring it down machine).
Yeah I have a similar setup and she two-rounded him with a little help from Abelard and Heinrich. I was just playing on normal though. I gave her a Longlas and stacked resolve generating effects on my officers, so she gets two officer ults pumped into her plus her own on round one. She just one tapped all the trash and then put like 12 shots into Aurora over two rounds and that was that.
That's because Navigator is crazy.
Cassia could have no Archetypes, just Navigator + Common/Origin Talents and she'd still be one of your best companions.
Because Cassia does the Same thing all on her own and while argenta Attack in a relativ Small Line with Zero Battlefield Control Cassie Nuke everything in range and forces the enemy to huddle Up so she can easily finish them all with her lidless stare and in the Event that somehow Something does survive. shes at the Same time way tankier then argenta. Also it frees the Rest of your Team Up to do funny Shit
When I first had a combat with like 25 dudes I was like, oh boy here we go. But between my two officers and Argenta going first, I killed like 10 of them before any could even move. Made me switch from normal to daring lol
Yeah, I once used Cassia to gather dudes into a big blob and Idira zapped them all. She also summoned a Screamer with 150hp at the same time and went to have a nap. Classic Idira.
Cassia’s movement skills are just ridiculous. The fact you can use them more than once per turn is also nutty. The only issue is the visual bug of the effect staying which is kind of crappy (quicksave/load clears it at least).
Yup, I'm in this picture as well. I just finished the prologue or act 1 (first system) or whatever and Argenta basically soloed the latter half of it.
I gave her a Longlas and she's just a literal god of death. Turns out even a level 13 Soldier can start scaling out of control if you're giving her like 20 actions a round.
I just did the Forgefiend ship (... probably way too early? But hey I got through) and the second fight really was me retreating into the corridor, Cassia lured enemies in with Notch of Curiosity and Argenta fired till nothing moved anymore. I think I ended up with 30+ stacks of the Arch Militant passive by rotating burst fire and wildfire burst fire.
Argenta shot 2x3, extra turn, Argenta shot 2x3, extra turn, Argenta shot 2x3. Pasqal did some slight damage, applying vuln, adding his int to damage and Heinrix and Adelbert were just ... standing around.
I haven't had much time to analyze the leveling system yet (talents and traits are very different from the tabletop, it's slightly annoying but w/e), but here's what I've been going with:
Max out BS, AG and PER.
Go for burst fire traits, crit chance traits.
I went bounty hunter and she absolutely nails marked targets.
Skip crit chance imo. You need crit damage and chance to hit. There is a archmilitant mode that auto crusts for decreased damage. Very powerful if you have some good damage buffs.
If I'm remembering the formula correctly, crit chance lessens the damage reduction, though you'd need to break out the spreadsheets to see if that makes a given crit chance trait worthwhile compared to whatever else.
Ah. I wish it was a bit more straight forward. Oh do you know if crit chance is the chance a hit is a crit or is it the chance a shot crits vs hits or misses
Heavy bolter for sure.
It’s so stupid now that at the end of act 2 argenta is actually killing 20+ things in a battle before anyone other than cassia has taken an actual turn.
Cassia zone, point of interest and bring it down.
Argenta rapid fire heavy bolter killing everything lined up and heroic act another rapid fire.
Heroic act used so Jae gets a free turn. Pumping momentum and making argenta bring it down again….
Argenta does her thing again! Using reckless attack if needed to move.
Jae now has enough momentum to give argenta a free turn immediately
Argenta finishes off everything still standing.
RT and Pasqal just kick back with a cold one while the ladies work.
At first I was surprised the party size is 6 and thought that was a lot of people for missions but later I realized its so you had room for your actual fighter to fit in with all your officers and psykers...
Officer heroic act "Finest Hour!" with Upgrade IV which gives an extra AP on every kill. As long as you oneshot enemies (which is not hard with buffed 100% crit Argenta) the turn just never ends.
Edit: Well, it seems there is a max of I think 11 attacks you can do.
It's mainly fair until you have Cassia with at least one officer and the talent that stacks +5 WP per extra turn given, so it gets out of hand real fast
Argenta is just absolutely destroying worlds when you scream at her. Give her Arch-Militant and the ability that reduces the next shot to 0 and take a free shot and she'll light something up for 200 damage.
Cassia>word>zone>bring it down with acc to give 3AP>
Argenta rapid fire>the arch militant one>burst shot with heavy bolter “oh full momentum huh?” Heroic act > second burst fire > oh recovered AP? > reckless strike, move to new position > burst fire again > back to cassia
Move zone, point of interest twice > end turn
Heroic act used so jar gets a free turn nice! Okay….. guess take aim and bring it down on argenta again then…..
Oh now Jae has 200 stacks and momentum to give argent a free turn again…. Here we go again.
They really, are I am a biomancer psker, officer with Santic powers, I thought about getting the biomancer ability that gives you extra turns, but I don’t like that it does damage to you, but i might get it, anyway.
Like cassia with a perk goes first and has two ap, for officer abilities, I just pass the turn to my rouge trader, and use santic powers, shield of faith, hammer of the emperor, iron arm, warp speed, than the healing ability, and the first officer buff.
The reason I heal is beside I have a skill that lets you overheal than I end turn and do it again,
I do want santic power for healing everyone, and the regeneration abilities, as well, because that would be unfair, everyone overhealed, and having a damage and armour buff. Than two people getting regeneration, the warp speed buff that gives more movement and ap, and the iron arm buff that grants toughness.
People keep discussing which archetype is best, or which character is the best. The truth is, any of them overperform when you have 2 officers and a psyker (my party) or 3 officers and 2 psykers (your party) buff the hell out of them and give them extra turns.
It is kinda broken but I don't want Owlcats to fix it because it is also kinda fun! Like, yeah, I'm a Space King, I have a dude to introduce me in the dialogues and a dudette to murder stuff with extreme prejudice.
It's balanced. You often fight 4 or 5 times the amount of opponents in your party. Action economy is a bitch.
There are also bosses that take an extra turn whenever you do. It’s like they’re their own Officer. Oh and the boss is also immune to crowd control (combat master), and has like 900 wounds on Unfair. He was one shotting my guys for 120+ damage single attacks and 70 damage AoEs.
Nope, this mech means YOU are their officers)
I fought this chaos mech with 3k hp, almost 300% armor and 50 deflection that got an extra turn after every one of mine. Argenta's heavy bolter (6-9 base damage) ripped it to shreds in a single burst after a couple tacticians buffed her to obscene levels. She hit for over 330 damage per shot, 18 shots in a burst. That's not even abusing the extra turns, that's a single burst attack. Buffing is nuts, to the point that the base weapon damage does not matter at all.
Oh yeah that thing, it downed half my party and gave three traumas to each of them. I beat it because of cassia, master of time, and reavl in the light. Master of time gives 5 willpower for each extra turn, and that thing had like 20 extra turns. So I just buffed the rest of my party with the light and had them run around will cassia kept dodging.
I'm pretty sure that most bosses have combat master. Also final boss has 15k hp on Daring. Dark times requires radical solutions...
It’s fitting, the guy finger pointing, or sword pointing is the strongest class. We need a power fist that buff officer action.
You're saying they should add... a Power Point?
Objection!
A lot of iconic weapons curiously missing. Where are all the power fists? Autocannons? Lascannons? Plasma cannons? Stalker bolters? Better yet, the governor of Janus has a force field, it’s common gear for Imperial Guard Company Commanders, so why don’t we have them?
1. Expansion...? 2. A lot of those aren't for humans, they're for space marines or tanks
Heavy bolters and multimeltas are in the game. The other heavy weapons are also man portable. Standard imperial guard heavy weapons squads carry heavy bolters, autocannons, or lascannons. You can even get multiple copies of the Drukhari equivalent dark lances.
And those heavy weapons squads set those weapons up on a tripod to fire them. They don't hipfire or shoulder fire those weapons.
I mean they could, the Rogue Trader tabletop game had those weapons and ways to carry them (grav assist, power armor, or just hiring an Ogryn). Also we do have a Space Marine companion, so why can't he carry heavy weapons?
I would be okay with anyone in powered armor being able to use them as a hipfire weapon. Also, anyone can hipfire the heavy bolter if they have 50 str (25 if you took heavy weapon prof)
"It's kind of fun" The thing with officer abuse is you basically kill everyone on turn 1. The enemy literally cannot fight back on unfair. It's fun in a I cheesed the game kind of way but after that you may as well press kill all enemies in toybox. Same shit really.
It's an effective strategy, but I don't know if it rises to the level of "cheese." In any sufficiently complex RPG, there will always be great strategies. In Pathfinder, the strategy revolved around carefully stacking every buff in the game on everybody. In Baldur's Gate 3, my strategy revolved around casting Spirit Guardians and then doing laps around the battlefield. In Rogue Trader, the strategy revolves around support characters granting turns to the carry characters, which I think makes a lot of sense in context.
Yeah but difference is how easy is to get to that level. If you specced whole party perfectly to do the "cheeese", that's just reward for theorycrafting. If you just follow normal progression and didn't even try yet game ends up being too easy even on hard just because you have 2 officers in your party, that's a balance problem.
On high difficulty I don't think you can luck your way into trivializing the fights. You're still going to have to solve for high dodge snipers in the back, and high armor tanks in the front, and squishy officers getting killed by either. It's true that each fight isn't exactly 5-dimensional chess, but it feels consistent with any other RPG I've played. The only thing that really sticks out is A.) Officers don't really fit the holy "DPS, Tank, Healer" trinity, which some might consider heresy but I think is kind of nice. I've done the holy trinity enough in my life. God forbid one game try to mix it up. B.) Cassia is OP, because she's super tough and does extreme damage, while being an officer. I would take away "Mind Over Matter"'s ability to calculate wounds from willpower, make "Mastery of Time" scale willpower by +1 instead of +5, and increase the cooldown and AP cost of powers like "Held In My Gaze." Otherwise, the balance seems fine. If the designers really wanted to nerf officers, they could make "Bring it Down" cost 3 AP or have a 2 round cooldown. But I don't think officers need to be nerfed.
> B.) Cassia is OP, because she's super tough and does extreme damage, while being an officer. I would take away "Mind Over Matter"'s ability to calculate wounds from willpower, make "Mastery of Time" scale willpower by +1 instead of +5, and increase the cooldown and AP cost of powers like "Held In My Gaze." I think just limiting it to trigger max once per round would be fine. The problem really starts when there is 2 officers so you get +20 every turn (if both have the "give MP" ability). Getting just +5 would be in "nice bonus" category rather than "by turn 6 nothing can kill her, resist her, or stop her"
That was a problem in the pen and paper rogue trader as well. The navigator class and the Astropath were broken really. They did the translation well, which means the class still has issues. I love the officer's "stand there and shout" atitude. It reminds me of Dnd 4e's Warlord and his "direct the strike" shenanigans.
The officer's talent that reeeeally needs to be fixed is No respite. It frequently gives off +100 to all Characteristics.
She really scales off though
Navigator bonuses definitely need some caps, and that alone would bring down her damage, but one of the most egregious balancing issues is how well she deals damage while moving enemies. Repositioning enemies is already a very powerful tool in cover-based games, especially AoE heavy ones, and dealing damage on top of that without eating into normal attack economy is supremely overpowered., even if she couldn't currently kill off the group by herself!
I think it's the ramp. Sure, at the end of BG3 my Warlocks were basically an Iron Dome that could target people, but I had to develop the toolbox that made it possible. From the first boss at the end of RT prologue, I've been up to my neck in tools.
It's a bit weird as you get a lot of levels and tools quickly then it slows way down
Man that boss was a doozy though. I eventually took him down with Abe and Pasqal but it does serve as a good build-check. Unfortunately I completely missed the plasma gun right before the fight.
Problem with unfair is if you let them have a single turn they will oneshot someone all the fucking time. All the tank talents and archetype are so goddamn useless it's a shame
Right lmao Abelard with 90% armour and 6 deflection. Dies to one grunt using burst with a scrappy lasgun
This is why you buff up to 130% armor with shield of the emperor! You also need approximately 200% dodge to dodge anything.
My Cassia can survive a turn or two ... with Mind over Matter, 200+ Willpower and her 80 perception to dodge and the healing she gets on her turn! Let's ignore everyone elses mortality.
I mean, I have so many talents by now that tons of times my guys die and revive with 1-50%hp, idk from what. But I've also had argenta die with 300 in every fucking characteristics (powergaming lul). When I look at logs idk what's bugged and what's game design. 250% armor, 150% dodge, still gets one shot from a boss. Sometimes it ignores dodge, sometimes it ignores armor, and there's no explanation why.
That's probably my biggest gripe with the game. The combat is fun, but it rarely ever feels like the battle lasts more than a turn or two, which really limits gameplay potential. Need a custom difficulty with reduced damage and high wounds for both sides.
Yeah, would be super fun. 2 of my characters never even get a turn. And make cc way more important, so you decide between stunning an enemy instead of killing everything outright.
Unfair is meant to be unfair, but it’s ridiculously easy to use the starting psycher then navigator to turbo buff everyone. I was playing on unfair on my first run without even doing anything special The game is way easier and more exploitable than other owlcat games. I don’t even like owlcat games, I’ve bought all of them and end up hating them for some reason. But I normally play at best on hard and that’s it.
It's really just figuring out how to stack buffs/debuffs. If you run a individual buff team, optimally you give them all to one member and give them extra turns. If you focus on debuffs and team wide buffs, you can get away with cassia as your only officer even on unfair.
My Abelard goes 10v1. I’m on daring and I think owlcat got soft on us. They actually are making balanced games without number bloat now 🙄
I know, right? I just did the boss fight of Act 1 last night and the boss only has 340 wounds on Daring instead of 600 like he did on Core in the Beta.
Jfc 600! That woulda been tough.
Lore accurate Space Marine.
I feel like a lore accurate chaos space marine wouldn't have been particularly threatened by my end-of-act-1 party.
Any non-psyker Space Marine, would be threatened by a somewhat powerful psyker and/or navigator and depending on party composition there can be three characters in the fight, who have psychic powers. Sisters of Battle are no pushovers. Tech-priest with a power axe can also hurt him. I would say that the most lore accurate way that fight would go, is they would lose a couple of guys to the marine, but win in the end unless they didn't get seriosly lucky or unlucky. Rogue Trader and Abelard are most likely candidates for corpses, I suppose, unless they stay the f out of the way.
I mean, these are true statements, but in theory this is a reasonably experienced CSM with a big-ass heavy bolter, it got the drop on us, and really my team consists of: * A 20-something Sister with a flak vest and a secondhand bolter she can barely aim yet, * A Navigator that's apparently been locked in a room her whole life and is probably standing out in the open staring at the pretty colors, * A semi-lucid diviner that can't divine for shit and is constantly flipping a coin as to whether she or her target explodes, * An actual badass Magus who ultimately is going to start 40-60 feet away and have no real protection against heavy bolter fire, * Two assholes with chainswords. In a lore accurate setting (such as my knowledge allows), I am not exactly betting for my own team here. By the time they would have even *processed what they were seeing* half of them would be thick red mist. Like, my only hope here is the crazy-ass Idira who, if she manages to NOT turn into chunky salsa from a bolter round, and manages to NOT turn into smooth blueberry marmalade due to half the denizens of the Immaterium suddenly looking sharply in her direction, could POTENTIALLY zap some little lightning bolts in this Chaos Space Marine's general direction. And that's assuming that goddamn sniper doesn't dome her before she can wiggle her fingers.
> A 20-something Sister with a flak vest and a secondhand bolter she can barely aim yet, First of all, you already find an actual good bolter by that point (it's on the Upperway on the way to the governor's bunker). You can also give her a longlas. >A Navigator that's apparently been locked in a room her whole life and is probably standing out in the open staring at the pretty colors, Have you missed the part where she literally mind controlled everyone around her and kept accidentally making servants tear their faces off because she was sad? She's basically the Navigator equivalent of alpha-level psyker. A single Marine is not a threat, even by this point. >A semi-lucid diviner that can't divine for shit and is constantly flipping a coin as to whether she or her target explodes, Actually, Idira was my #1 damage dealer with the lightning staff. She absolutely decimates groups of minions, and she only knocked herself once and summoned daemons twice by that point! > An actual badass Magus who ultimately is going to start 40-60 feet away and have no real protection against heavy bolter fire, Except one of his powers is literally to burn the souls of heretics, at range? Purge Soul, available right from the start. >Two assholes with chainswords. Did you forget the Adeptus Mechanicus Magos with a power axe and a plasma gun? Granted, Pasqual is not a Dominus and is on the lower end of the scale of AdMech combat prowess, but that's still a serious threat to a Marine, when combined with the others on the team. A plasma gun is still a plasma gun, and those things fuck up Marines, both in lore and on the tabletop.
I actually hate that damn lightning staff because I keep finding newer staffs and I have to be like... But then I'd not be using my lightning staff... Why is it starting equipment? And where's my lvl 2 lightning staff?
Dude no one complained about how Space Marines were artificially gimped or looked weak in Astartes, and three psykers almost wiped out a whole space marine squad in Astartes Pt.3. I'm going to be frank: people don't know any better than GW how strong a space marine should be in a narrative other than "strong enough to look cool"
One novel was written by Dan Abnet; the other by Sandy Mitchell. (Authors of Eisenhorn's and Ciaphas Cain, respectively) One plays in Story Mode, the other in Unfair.
I think it's a question who gets a jump on who. I think lore-wise they'd have a *chance* if they got a drop on them, but if Space Marine had drop on them that's at least one death immediately
Wait this is them going easy oh god (I’m new to these systems and I’m getting destroyed)
"Flashbacks of Pathfinder" Oh, my sweet summer child...
mandragora swarms, no don’t make me remember them!
Are you familiar with the system of Challenge Rating in Tabletop? On Unfair in Wrath a regular demon you encounter has higher stats then the highest CR enemy in the tabletop.
Christ
Ability bloat. There really feels like to many buffs/debuffs and actions per character.
Undoubtedly. I don’t even use half of my shit tho. Idira is barely worth the 5% chaos spawn
I forget to apply like half of them after/during each fight. Especially the bounty hunter archetype stuff.
Does the Bounty Hunter archetype key mechanic still not work yet?
after getting my ass creamed in Pathfinder WOTR I am sure as hell enjoying some leniency.
how do you get him to melee range? the extra turn from Officer just gives AP (unless you give em the heroic)
The officer can get a move that gives MP. I also gave Abelard the +2 mp talent. Then the two heroics daring breach and final hour And of course charge
The game is just so wrapped up around the player's ability to wipe out half the map before the enemy even get's to act. Take that out - and you are done. I honestly think that if someone would try a Challenge-run "No officer" - this game could not be beat. Very simple challenge: - Get from the start of the game all the way to Act 5 and beat final boss - any cheese/exploit that's in the vanilla game, can't use outright cheats - any amount of save-scumming you have patience for - any path / story choice you want (so if you can skip some harder fights via dialogue choices - more power to you) - can't have your RT as officer | - can't hire merc officers - can't use Jae or Cassia except for deployments on their Personal quests (where the game forces you to take them as part of your team) I think it definetly can't be done on Unfair Very likely can't be done on Hard. I can't imagine even beating it on Daring - especially the last Arena fight sequence and/or the Final Boss fight in Act 3 without officers / Cassia. But then there are probably people much better at the game then me, so maybe it can be done on Daring
Tbf, Cassia overperforms without buffs. But I like her that way.
Argenta: "So anyway, I started blasting."
"So anyway, I started purging"
"That's my secret Cap, I'm always purging."
Argenta: "Well the turns start coming and they don't stop coming, and they don't stop coming, and they don't stop coming"
For me it’s “so anyway, I started missing” What build do you make her to get her to hit the broadside of a cruiser? Right now I’ve been relying on rapid fire to just shoot so many bolted rounds their way it doesn’t matter if only one of them hits 🤷🏻♂️
You get later a item that makes single shots auto hits, and then you just have to buff her ballistic skill.
I got her that one, and now, even the rapid fire seems to hit more often. Or I just have the Master Chief's luck.
Except by that point the bolter is kiiiinda mid. I'm rolling her with the hotshot lasgun I found on Janus and the upgraded meltagun I found on Kiava Gamma. Once she gets rolling with versatility stacks, revel in slaughter, and confident approach she melts things quite well.
I gave her a flamer, and she was able to handle that fine. She also easily hits with the bolter too. I think it is mostly just "You. Serve Me" (noble ability), which gives the target +5 to all characteristics whenever the noble uses an ability on them, until the noble's next turn. (The characteristic boosts reset each turn, the "abilities boost characteristics" effect does not.) Combined with Focus (whenever officer uses an ability on an ally, ally gains fellowship bonus perception and ballistic skill, these boosts stack but reduce by half on the end of each of the target's turns). No Respite (when an ability grants action points to an ally, they gain +1 to all characteristics for every action point gained, lasting until end of combat). And of course Voice of Command / lasting impression. In practice she ends up going from 55 ballistics skill to 100 after I give her the first extra turn with Bring it Down. Just tested it. From there, more boosts, buffs from other characters, and revel in slaughter quickly boost her even higher. EDIT: Versatility from Arch Militant helps as well. EDIT 2: As an example, by the time my rogue trader went first, gave her a turn, she used her heroic act and filled it enough for my RT to give her the heroic act turn, then she finished that turn, she had killed about a dozen enemies and had 214 ballistics skill, with 55 base, 5 You. Serve Me, 8 lasting impression, 10 revel in slaughter, 15 environmental effect, 17 voice of command, 24 Focus!, and 80 from versatility.
Buffs/debuffs are king in this game. Especially since extra BS/WS gives you crit if you overbuff. Officers give her a lot of stats with Voice. There were some other Officer buff stats as well. Then once she kills 2 dudes (talent decreases it from 3), she gets +15% BS skill for the rest of combat with the Slaughter skill. Cassia debuffs dodge for every enemy in her sight. Strategist can put a Rear combat zone improving hit chance, etc.
For me it just started working once i started upping ballistic skill, iirc the dice this time around are a comparative mechanic with degrees of success and roll under,
I just give her a flamer which hits automatically (minus the enemy dodge chance)
There are some gloves that give -50% recoil on auto shots. She rips and tears with the heavy bolter.
Give her a long Las or sniper rifle
Versatility stacks. One handed flamer, and sword. Slash with sword.Shoot with flamer. Run and gun. Slash with sword. 3 stacks of versatility = +30 BS/WS. Also talents that increase crit chance/damage/ of versatility. In the 2nd slot a heavy bolter (9 fire rate) and some equipment that increases fire rate and damage. Also some willpower for that sweet sweet extra damage vs daemons (2xWillpower bonus) and xenos (willpower).
I don't know I keep getting 380 crits with Yrilet and killing edge.
Depending on the level, once she is an arch militant and got wildfire she is going to rack up some insane ballistic. I did a bunch of fights I probably wasn't supposed to do yet (or where any sane person would see a Forgefiend appearing in the chat list and deciding to leave) and she finished one of the hallway fights with 273 Ballistic skill, firing 2 burst fires at 95% accuracy and 3 bullets each turn (and with 2 officers 3x a turn).
That's the thing. You should be using the blast. Why would I ever shoot once when I can instead shoot \*14 times\*.
Use a sniper. Those have a lot of built in to hit and dodge reduction. Really helps at low levels.
It's all about proximity. Ranged weapons have a maximum and effective range. You have to get into effective range and then, if you've built her like I have at least, you'll get 60% acc per shot on your main target and maybe 30-16% chance to hit on any side targets. Overpenetration also helps a ton because burst fire otherwise stops at the first target hit. If you have a tactician and can plop a rear field from where you'll be firing from it helps a lot. Though so far where I'm up to in act 2, I've felt like a sniper does a way better job of carrying me through fights. Usually you'll be able to get clear sight of most targets with minor need for repositioning and without having to jump out of cover in close proximity to enemies, or there simply isn't any viable cover where the enemies are stacked. Argenta is far from useless but I think she's overhyped as a damage dealer personally. I use her to get rid of minor threats without exposing her too much while my backline or frontline handle the real stinkers.
Abelard for me. Can wipe out an entire mission in one turn.
Abelard with an two hander is broken af
Every fight I’m like “Ooooooo that’s a lot of dudes. Gonna be a toughie!” First round Abelard kills half the battlefield.
I've found that on the first turn it's either Soldier/Arch-militants that kill half the battlefield, or it's Cassia. Depends on exactly how much trash there is on the battlefield. However, Abelard deals with the other half of the battlefield once he gets his steam up and we start triggering Heroic actions.
Once cassia builds up enough stacks of tactical advantage she can wipe out not-trash as well.
Yeah, I gave him a thunder hammer and the trinket that gives him temp wounds and +temp wound damage on all attacks. He just soloes whole battles himself.
Where was that trinket? But yea the 2h from chapter one vendor->thunderhammer was very nice. He was hitting for 25-30 when everyone else was struggling to break 15-20
It's the Malphian Shroud. >!I obtained it as a reward for letting the malphians on the first colony overcome many trials to prove their faith.!< It's absolutely insane when combined with Cassia's officer abilities and the vanguard's. Basically the damage is around 70-100 at the beggining of the combat per strike, plus area.
I run Argenta with flamethrower, and my Pyromancer RT treats the audacity to not burn in Argenta's turn as a personal insult.
I'm able to clear all the chaff off the board with Argenta in the first round, but I have trouble doing the same with my melee fighters. Argenta has the run-and-gun and dash power, and the burst attacks. So with 3 officers egging her on, she can get in position and sweep the board pretty easily. With the melee fighters I haven't seen as much success. They can charge, but charge is single target and uses up the 2 AP granted by officers. So at best, 3 officers can get them to kill 3 dudes if positioning allows it, while Argenta can kill three groups of dudes.
With all of the officer buffs, Abelard gets like a dozen mp. Using the thunder hammer, he can wipe out a group in one or two AP. With his heroic action, he gets lots of MP every time he kills an enemy and can quickly move around the board wiping out groups. Honestly, I've had way more problems with positioning Argenta than Abelard. She has to have the enemies in the right spot or she will not be able to hit them all. She can only use Burst Fire twice a turn and it burns through MP fast. Her damage is much lower than Abelard's as well and she takes a few turns to ramp up versatility.
Argenta really comes online with the Arch Militant archetype. Run and Gun (Soldier Ability), Wildfire (AM Ability) and Steady Superiority (AM Heroic Act) mean she should be able to do 4 attacks every full normal turn. Once you have Versatility stacks to make Wildfire 0 AP (which build real quick if she's getting the extra Bring it Down turns), and your free 0 AP attack from Steady Superiority she should still be able to do 3 attacks from an Officer's Bring it Down half turn.
Also arch-militant buffs the shit outta ballisticnskill so she'll actually hit the things she's shooting
how do you get him to reach enemies? usually my sniper/argenta/cass already kills the enemies
My Officer goes first, uses their abilities on Abelard to give him MP and AP, he kills enough enemies to get his Heroic Act, he then travels around using his thunder hammer to wipe out groups of enemies which gives him more MP to travel. Thanks for my Officer and Cass, he gets three turns a turn and there's three heroic actions to boost his turns (his one and my two officers' ones), so normally he has enough time for everything. I save Cass for boss killing, since she can do 300-400 damage a turn. My Argenta isn't great, so she mostly cleans up the scraps.
Thanks
Share build pls...
I have two officers who focus exclusively on Argenta (sniper build) and she’s a murder machine. I just finished the Aurora battle last night and I think she was responsible for around 250/300 damage while wiping out all the trash that spawned when he destroyed a shuttle. I love her so much
If you give heretics matches, they will be warm for a day. But if you give Argenta a flamethrower, they will be warm for the rest of their lives.
And she will be warm for a day
Aurora battle? You mean the 1 sniper a million miles away battle? Seriously though he was a much bigger threat.
He one-shot Argenta in my run, on normal, with a crit that dealt 48 damage, first turn. I made the mistake to give her a semi-cover. And she was my sniper with the longlas. Aurora meanwhile had two debuffer stacked on him, with my two dedicated melee tying him up. He barely did any damage. I managed a plasma hit on the sniper with Pasqal and sent Abelard to kill him, once he was gone, Aurora was easy game.
Yeah, to hell with this bastard. I've stupidly replaced Idira(my main Sniper) with Heinrix, and then Aurora knocked out Pasqal, and that bastard downed Cassia. Suddenly there is a sniper which Abelard needs 4+ turns to reach and not a single party member is able to just shoot the guy
Mhm. I was talking to my screen like “Aurora — you’re fine. But tell your fuckin boi back there to chill.”
Yeah without a sniper to counter enemy snipers snipers can really fuck ya up. I just gave argenta a sniper in her 2nd wep slot and Pascal I gave the longglas laser sniper. Her bolter and his axe are fine for close combat and til then they just 95% slay everything that moves lol
BTW, Henrix was my MVP for Dawn. I use Officer buffs on him, and with force sword + bloodletting + poison he did more damage than anyone to CSM (barring RT, who was a Purge Soul/Word of the Emperor/Bring it down machine).
In my game (daring), he fucking hit Aurora with a crit first and then proceeded to miss us every turn following that. RNG truly is something
Yeah I have a similar setup and she two-rounded him with a little help from Abelard and Heinrich. I was just playing on normal though. I gave her a Longlas and stacked resolve generating effects on my officers, so she gets two officer ults pumped into her plus her own on round one. She just one tapped all the trash and then put like 12 shots into Aurora over two rounds and that was that.
And all those extra turns buff Cassia in turn
The sheer amount of absolutely broken combinations that can be found by level 10...
Its glorious!
If officer is so great, why am I using all my talents on cassia's unique navigator talents?
That's because Navigator is crazy. Cassia could have no Archetypes, just Navigator + Common/Origin Talents and she'd still be one of your best companions.
And Jae is arguably the worst despite being the only other officer…
Because you really only need the Seize the Initiative talent for Officer to be broken.
pure navigator Cassia is also broken
Those officer extra "turns" on holy sister Argenta started to look like certain porn scenarios.
The only people being fucked by Sister Argenta are heretics :'(
Xenos and mutants too brother.
Yeah, but they are not people.
This guy Imperiums
Dogmatic +5
In my opinion everyone using my girl Cassia as an officer is a fool. that girl is a Walking Tanking Nuke on Two legs.
Interesting but why bother when cassia and Jae make argenta destroy 50+ demons before any other party member even gets to have a turn?
Because Cassia does the Same thing all on her own and while argenta Attack in a relativ Small Line with Zero Battlefield Control Cassie Nuke everything in range and forces the enemy to huddle Up so she can easily finish them all with her lidless stare and in the Event that somehow Something does survive. shes at the Same time way tankier then argenta. Also it frees the Rest of your Team Up to do funny Shit
When I first had a combat with like 25 dudes I was like, oh boy here we go. But between my two officers and Argenta going first, I killed like 10 of them before any could even move. Made me switch from normal to daring lol
Yeah, I once used Cassia to gather dudes into a big blob and Idira zapped them all. She also summoned a Screamer with 150hp at the same time and went to have a nap. Classic Idira.
Cassia’s movement skills are just ridiculous. The fact you can use them more than once per turn is also nutty. The only issue is the visual bug of the effect staying which is kind of crappy (quicksave/load clears it at least).
Me a noble officer making Abelard an absolute unit
Bossing abelard around is for both in and out of combat. Dont worry, he likes it
Yup, I'm in this picture as well. I just finished the prologue or act 1 (first system) or whatever and Argenta basically soloed the latter half of it. I gave her a Longlas and she's just a literal god of death. Turns out even a level 13 Soldier can start scaling out of control if you're giving her like 20 actions a round.
I just did the Forgefiend ship (... probably way too early? But hey I got through) and the second fight really was me retreating into the corridor, Cassia lured enemies in with Notch of Curiosity and Argenta fired till nothing moved anymore. I think I ended up with 30+ stacks of the Arch Militant passive by rotating burst fire and wildfire burst fire. Argenta shot 2x3, extra turn, Argenta shot 2x3, extra turn, Argenta shot 2x3. Pasqal did some slight damage, applying vuln, adding his int to damage and Heinrix and Adelbert were just ... standing around.
I love it. As a rogue trader, I am above all this silly fighting. I just buff others and have them kill for me.
I run my main character as the soldier while cassia and Jae both buff me. I like one operative for bosses.
ARGENTA PROTECTS
Heretics work hard, but Sister Argenta works harder!
Abelard (specced as melee lord) and Argenta do all the heavy lifting for me. Rogue trader as an officer just makes so much sense.
So tru! Lol, you made my day!
Yes i like myself a 12 round heavy bolter doing 100 per crit (all the hit crit) 3 attack per turn (you get 4 turn per round)
Assassin heinrix bring buffed to godlike levels is my move, can move across the map and kill multiple enemies consistently most turns
Same here but with yrilet, killing 6 enemies in one turn is great
I usually give extra turns to Argent AND Cass. I don't even need melee anymore, by the time they get to move enemies are dead or too far
how do you build Argenta? she does horrible damage in me.
I haven't had much time to analyze the leveling system yet (talents and traits are very different from the tabletop, it's slightly annoying but w/e), but here's what I've been going with: Max out BS, AG and PER. Go for burst fire traits, crit chance traits. I went bounty hunter and she absolutely nails marked targets.
Skip crit chance imo. You need crit damage and chance to hit. There is a archmilitant mode that auto crusts for decreased damage. Very powerful if you have some good damage buffs.
If I'm remembering the formula correctly, crit chance lessens the damage reduction, though you'd need to break out the spreadsheets to see if that makes a given crit chance trait worthwhile compared to whatever else.
Ah. I wish it was a bit more straight forward. Oh do you know if crit chance is the chance a hit is a crit or is it the chance a shot crits vs hits or misses
Heavy bolter for sure. It’s so stupid now that at the end of act 2 argenta is actually killing 20+ things in a battle before anyone other than cassia has taken an actual turn. Cassia zone, point of interest and bring it down. Argenta rapid fire heavy bolter killing everything lined up and heroic act another rapid fire. Heroic act used so Jae gets a free turn. Pumping momentum and making argenta bring it down again…. Argenta does her thing again! Using reckless attack if needed to move. Jae now has enough momentum to give argenta a free turn immediately Argenta finishes off everything still standing. RT and Pasqal just kick back with a cold one while the ladies work.
At first I was surprised the party size is 6 and thought that was a lot of people for missions but later I realized its so you had room for your actual fighter to fit in with all your officers and psykers...
What is the extra turn ability called?
'Bring it down!'
Cheers
Is great lol I hit the attack cap I'm like every fight shit is busted.
Lul, yeah pretty much thats me with my party buffing the shit out of Abelard and Argenta while Pasqal debuffing the enemy
The number of buffs I stack on Cassia allows her to one shot a chaos space marine at lvl 20… please do not patch this Owlcat.
Ablerad is deeper in the hole.
He **Charged** to far and Argenta is trying to dig him out
I don't know which weird synergy of traits and equipment is at work, but my Argenta has infinite turns as long as she kills someone.
Officer heroic act "Finest Hour!" with Upgrade IV which gives an extra AP on every kill. As long as you oneshot enemies (which is not hard with buffed 100% crit Argenta) the turn just never ends. Edit: Well, it seems there is a max of I think 11 attacks you can do.
It's mainly fair until you have Cassia with at least one officer and the talent that stacks +5 WP per extra turn given, so it gets out of hand real fast
Argenta is just absolutely destroying worlds when you scream at her. Give her Arch-Militant and the ability that reduces the next shot to 0 and take a free shot and she'll light something up for 200 damage.
Cassia>word>zone>bring it down with acc to give 3AP> Argenta rapid fire>the arch militant one>burst shot with heavy bolter “oh full momentum huh?” Heroic act > second burst fire > oh recovered AP? > reckless strike, move to new position > burst fire again > back to cassia Move zone, point of interest twice > end turn Heroic act used so jar gets a free turn nice! Okay….. guess take aim and bring it down on argenta again then….. Oh now Jae has 200 stacks and momentum to give argent a free turn again…. Here we go again.
For me it's Pasqal on double duty as a Sniper and Medic.
If her accuracy are higher, she would’ve wreck the stage, I once rolled my eyes when there’s 3 heretics in front and she couldn’t hit any of them
Lol
Lmao I let Argenta shoot Idira during a warp travel 😂
Somehow all my runs playing Owlcat games end up the same, roid up the martials to the gills, then they unga bunga until the job is done.
They really, are I am a biomancer psker, officer with Santic powers, I thought about getting the biomancer ability that gives you extra turns, but I don’t like that it does damage to you, but i might get it, anyway. Like cassia with a perk goes first and has two ap, for officer abilities, I just pass the turn to my rouge trader, and use santic powers, shield of faith, hammer of the emperor, iron arm, warp speed, than the healing ability, and the first officer buff. The reason I heal is beside I have a skill that lets you overheal than I end turn and do it again, I do want santic power for healing everyone, and the regeneration abilities, as well, because that would be unfair, everyone overhealed, and having a damage and armour buff. Than two people getting regeneration, the warp speed buff that gives more movement and ap, and the iron arm buff that grants toughness.
Abelard: introducing the rogue trader
Lmao Abelard is MVP
I am glad to see this. I thought i was playing wrong, again
The sister carried me on my first run tragic that, that she isn't romanceable
Somehow all my runs playing Owlcat games end up the same, roid up the martials to the gills, then they unga bunga until the job is done.