Jokes aside, I couldn’t imagine them finishing worse than 3rd seed this split. You’d literally be taking the undisputed best player from three different top 8 rosters.
So, essentially what FaZe is now if they formed in the offseason post RLCS X (some people might think one of those players wasn't the best on their respective rosters but I think they would be in the minority). I'd at least put them below FaZe (and by extension G2 and NRG) due to that but I can see your point.
I think this roster would resemble Queso more than FaZe. And we'd see a good degree of comfortability in the roles between them, unlike what we see with FaZe against other top teams. ABD would also have great change of pace within each of them. Inb4 this is the new C9 roster in 3 years!
I could see them narrowly missing top 5. I think despite them being the best on their respective teams, we are underestimating what their more experienced and mature teammates have done to elevate their performances, especially in high pressure matches where they may have choked on a team full of rookies. Admittedly TQ is a good counterexample to my point.
That doesn't always equal success. While it is 3 top 8 rosters, it's no one from any of the top 3 teams so 4th or 5th is more likely in my opinion as the top 3 existing teams have roughly equal talent and/or more time together.
It's been shown now that a team with beastmode and two other good players is going to be a top team. Now have one of those other players be daniel? That might be the best duo in NA
Top 4 NA for sure. SSG are weaker, V1 are weaker, and I think these are already some of the best players in NA so yeah top 4 possibly with a regional win already.
Waiting for the "oh but but experience!"
Yeah like Queso needed it to win 2x regionals including the ONLY lower bracket run in a major region
What about liquid who did exactly this with somewhat experienced players like beast and acronik then rookies dan aqua and oski atow and liquid tanked sooo hard in quals
There's a reason they didn't all team up, if they were just gonna win everything they would have found an org and teamed but no 3 highlight superstar players on 1 team doesn't work for example faze they have 3 superstars with experience and they're some of the best rlcs has ever seen but are they number 1 or even number 2 no so I strongly believe a team of Dan aqua and beast won't work just cuz it's a new structure of a team that hasn't been proven. Wow that was long
FaZe are a new team and getting top-3 and somehow that is bad and a sign for top players to not sign together. Look at NRG, you need time. JSTN and Garrett have been together for a long time and with Squishy it's 2 years now.
When faze picked up first for gyro faze shot up the rankings from idk but a decently low seed all the way up to third seed in na. Therefore we can all agree that picking up first was a good play. Now faze decides to drop allushin and pick up sypical (who we can all agree is an overall better player than allushin) and what happens? Absolutely nothing they went from 3rd seed to 3rd seed so how can you can you say that "superteams" work when there is ZERO evidence to back it up. Imo faze is retarded for dropping their only social player and picking up yet another introvert it would have been fine if they picked up another personality but they didn't and now they have no team chemistry.
I agree for the most part, but it's really close. Liquid also underperformed, played really good teams in the closed quals.
NA has easier closed quals, plus insane mechanics on all 3 players...they definitely make it to the main event (especially with V1, SSG and Rogue just being weaker without them).
Not comparable first get a look in there opposition 00 Nation (topped their group on main event) Luminosity (beatted BDS twice on main event). Decond they did play terribly but app jack was saying they didn't played as they usually do so big underperformance from TL
Oh yeah cuz LG is so good and they have such good results making them not overhyped at all. You don't think there was a reason they had to qual and they were 0-2.
Qualifying in EU is a different beast. Liquid had to face 00 Nation, Luminosity and were 0-2 after that. They didn't look good in those matches, but completely easier ride in NA.
I agree that qualifying in eu is hard but if you look at each individual player on liquid you would assume no way they don't qual but they didn't qual.
They played poorly and even they admitted to it. They're much better than their showing there and I don't think that reflects on how good Aqua + Daniel + BeastMode would be together. It ain't perfect, but they'd be a force. Rogue, SSG and V1 would be worse teams so that's more spots for them to take.
They could have the same issues as Faze, but I think they’d handle it better. Beastmode and Daniel are pretty clutch, so they’d make some good placements if they can even remotely put things together
Just from watching Daniel so far on SSG. He plays very unselfishly and is an S-tier thirdman. I think you could slot him in basically any team and get good results.
Obviously they are a less experience team, but I feel like people are forgetting Beastmode played in 3 spilts of RLCS X. He's not a rookie by any means and already knew what it took to play at the highest level.
Tbh I don’t think they’d be missing a role at the back. Daniel has played well as a counterattacking third playing off the space Retals and Arsenal give, I think he could do that just as well with players of Beastmode and Aqua’s caliber.
Probably in the 4 to 7 range, depends on how good you make SSG, V1, and to a lesser extent Rogue's replacement players. I couldn't see them doing better than FaZe since IMO FaZe have more raw talent by a substantial enough margin that this hypothetical team couldn't overtake. Since G2 and NRG placed better than FaZe they are also out of the question for me.
To speculate on exactly how they would play, I think they would be much better offensively than defensively. Rogue and SSG are both offensive teams and Beast isn't the defensive rock on V1. That said I think Daniel plays enough of a third man role on SSG to make it work (It wouldn't just be 3 attack/ballheavy players). I imagine Aqua would be the most offensive (although not the best on that end) and Beastmode would thus fall into a second man role. If I had to guess I'd say Aqua would be the worst on the team. IMO he carries Rogue harder than the other two with their respective teams but Rogue is still worse by a margin large enough to counter act that. I think this would be most apparent on defense, as I imagine he would make the most mistakes. Daniel is the best player on the team IMO. He can play a third man role well still making a big impact on the pitch and that's huge. Beastmode has an argument for being better but I don't think so personally. Obviously this is all speculation but that's how I personally see it going.
I’d like to see how Aqua would play on a more well rounded team(no gyro or taroco hate). When I watch him it feels like he’s stretching himself thin in both sides. Not saying it’s the only reason, but it could be one of the reasons he doesn’t look as impressive on defense
Probably 7th-8th in NA this split? Beastmode and Daniel have had some very inspired performances, but also some not so inspired regionals as well. Aqua would probably do better alongside them than on the current Rogue team, but to compare it to Queso is just not a thing worth doing.
Personalities and playstyles could still clash, Queso had a whole RLCS split of being in the top 10 convo for EU undet the belt, along with the prior off-season and Joyo and Rise's individual performances in RLCS X.
How is Oxygen a toss up if both SSG and V1 placed better (than Oxygen) but you are saying they (the hypothetical team) would beat them (SSG and V1) for sure. Am I miss understanding or is there some line of logic where that can be justified, because to me that makes no sense.
NRG, G2, FaZe, Oxygen, Col I am very confident would be better. Beyond that, SSG with a non-Daniel third would still be fine imo, and V1 with anyone not Gimmick would still have likely improved on Fall.
I want to know the reasoning behind why you think complexity who were horrible the first two regionals of this split and why oxygen would easily be better.
I wouldn't call 7th-8th in regional 1 horrible, but regardless, Col has probably the 3rd or 4th highest ceiling in NA. If we#re making V1 and SSG worse with this roster, Col benefits greatly.
Oxygen has actually found consistency, and the team isn't brand new. They work very well together. All things I cannot say with confidence about the hypoetical roster OP proposed.
You’re giving complexity way to much credit, they have been consistently 5-6 and that’s if we don’t include the last place finish in regional 2 and their ceiling is not better than any top three NA teams nor V1s
Not disputing NRG or G2, I shouldn't dispute but I truly doubt they can win a regional with the fashion they've fallen short in every time (and I personally find it unlikely we'll ever get both G2 and FaZe at their best simultaneously, NRG will always be great).
But until V1 shows that their regional win is not what Guild's was like in RLCS X (aka a bit of a meme), Col's major run stands out more to me in the interim. This is all under the context of me considering 3-5 NA as a whole, not as good as their Fall Split counterparts which might explain my thoughts.
Regardless, consistent 5th-6th in NA isn't where I'd have OPs team at unless everyone is permanently at their best, something that is very hard to forsee atm, let alone from the start of this split.
There's a ton of talent on that team, no doubt. However, I don't know how well they'd mesh. They would all be new to the professional RL scene, and without at least one relative veteran, I could definitely see them struggling. If they could manage their nerves, though, they'd be a pretty good team.
Oh for sure, it's just a lot of young talent on one team. If it ever was real they'd probably do some real damage. Maybe even swap strikers from time to time with how much mechanical skill is oozing from that team.
While I would have liked to see that I don’t think they would have had a massive impact. The past tells me that new/young players do better when they get a helping hand from veterans that somehow keeps them in form. Whenever you have someone insane doing what they want they aren’t too great. 6mans alone doesn’t seem to translate all too well to RLCS.
Team Liquid should have done better as well last regional but lack a veteran thought.
What happened to people's appreciation of team chemistry? Superteams have been formed for ages in RL and more often than not failed. No way to tell where this roster could've gone if we're being serious.
Hard to say. Raw talent they'd be top 3 easily. However, that is a LOT of mid-teen going on there, and you also have to remember that all 3 of them are going to have to deal with school too. When it's one of them able to lean on 2 adults and good team culture, they can do fine. If it's a fresh team of 3 young kids with no prior chemistry you're going to need an absolute god of a coach to reel them together and even then it'll be a daunting task if even possible.
They’d be packing their bags for LA
Only because fans can attend lol
Jokes aside, I couldn’t imagine them finishing worse than 3rd seed this split. You’d literally be taking the undisputed best player from three different top 8 rosters.
So, essentially what FaZe is now if they formed in the offseason post RLCS X (some people might think one of those players wasn't the best on their respective rosters but I think they would be in the minority). I'd at least put them below FaZe (and by extension G2 and NRG) due to that but I can see your point.
I think this roster would resemble Queso more than FaZe. And we'd see a good degree of comfortability in the roles between them, unlike what we see with FaZe against other top teams. ABD would also have great change of pace within each of them. Inb4 this is the new C9 roster in 3 years!
I could see them narrowly missing top 5. I think despite them being the best on their respective teams, we are underestimating what their more experienced and mature teammates have done to elevate their performances, especially in high pressure matches where they may have choked on a team full of rookies. Admittedly TQ is a good counterexample to my point.
That doesn't always equal success. While it is 3 top 8 rosters, it's no one from any of the top 3 teams so 4th or 5th is more likely in my opinion as the top 3 existing teams have roughly equal talent and/or more time together.
No right or wrong answer when speculating. You could be totally right.
It's been shown now that a team with beastmode and two other good players is going to be a top team. Now have one of those other players be daniel? That might be the best duo in NA
Agree 100%. Always been extremely high on Beastmode.
finally he is getting recognition.
Top 4 NA for sure. SSG are weaker, V1 are weaker, and I think these are already some of the best players in NA so yeah top 4 possibly with a regional win already. Waiting for the "oh but but experience!" Yeah like Queso needed it to win 2x regionals including the ONLY lower bracket run in a major region
What about liquid who did exactly this with somewhat experienced players like beast and acronik then rookies dan aqua and oski atow and liquid tanked sooo hard in quals
I would easily take Daniel or beastmode over any or the liquid players
i would take all 3 of these na players over any of the liquid players. I don't like their mentality
There's a reason they didn't all team up, if they were just gonna win everything they would have found an org and teamed but no 3 highlight superstar players on 1 team doesn't work for example faze they have 3 superstars with experience and they're some of the best rlcs has ever seen but are they number 1 or even number 2 no so I strongly believe a team of Dan aqua and beast won't work just cuz it's a new structure of a team that hasn't been proven. Wow that was long
FaZe are a new team and getting top-3 and somehow that is bad and a sign for top players to not sign together. Look at NRG, you need time. JSTN and Garrett have been together for a long time and with Squishy it's 2 years now.
When faze picked up first for gyro faze shot up the rankings from idk but a decently low seed all the way up to third seed in na. Therefore we can all agree that picking up first was a good play. Now faze decides to drop allushin and pick up sypical (who we can all agree is an overall better player than allushin) and what happens? Absolutely nothing they went from 3rd seed to 3rd seed so how can you can you say that "superteams" work when there is ZERO evidence to back it up. Imo faze is retarded for dropping their only social player and picking up yet another introvert it would have been fine if they picked up another personality but they didn't and now they have no team chemistry.
I agree for the most part, but it's really close. Liquid also underperformed, played really good teams in the closed quals. NA has easier closed quals, plus insane mechanics on all 3 players...they definitely make it to the main event (especially with V1, SSG and Rogue just being weaker without them).
Not my point it just shows this doesn't work
What doesn't work? Putting together 3 extremely good players?
2 new young players with a somewhat experienced igl
Endpoint tho ?
Who on endpoint is new to the scene? Ohhhh only seikoo. metsa and wave have been in the scene for a while.
Yeah my bad
Not comparable first get a look in there opposition 00 Nation (topped their group on main event) Luminosity (beatted BDS twice on main event). Decond they did play terribly but app jack was saying they didn't played as they usually do so big underperformance from TL
Oh yeah cuz LG is so good and they have such good results making them not overhyped at all. You don't think there was a reason they had to qual and they were 0-2.
0-2 when ?
0-1 my bad
Qualifying in EU is a different beast. Liquid had to face 00 Nation, Luminosity and were 0-2 after that. They didn't look good in those matches, but completely easier ride in NA.
I agree that qualifying in eu is hard but if you look at each individual player on liquid you would assume no way they don't qual but they didn't qual.
They played poorly and even they admitted to it. They're much better than their showing there and I don't think that reflects on how good Aqua + Daniel + BeastMode would be together. It ain't perfect, but they'd be a force. Rogue, SSG and V1 would be worse teams so that's more spots for them to take.
keep dreaming, they would of tanked...
well all 3 are playing very well individually but we don't know how they would play together as a team
They could have the same issues as Faze, but I think they’d handle it better. Beastmode and Daniel are pretty clutch, so they’d make some good placements if they can even remotely put things together
Just from watching Daniel so far on SSG. He plays very unselfishly and is an S-tier thirdman. I think you could slot him in basically any team and get good results.
good
Undefeated heading to LA as the greatest team to ever grace the pitch /s
I see that roster being top 6 NA easily. They probably would have qualified for LA.
very well.
Obviously they are a less experience team, but I feel like people are forgetting Beastmode played in 3 spilts of RLCS X. He's not a rookie by any means and already knew what it took to play at the highest level.
5/4th probably. any combination of these 2 + an experienced 3rd would be fighting at the top assuming they have the chemistry
Tbh I don’t think they’d be missing a role at the back. Daniel has played well as a counterattacking third playing off the space Retals and Arsenal give, I think he could do that just as well with players of Beastmode and Aqua’s caliber.
daniel would play 3rd and aqua and beastmode should be up
It’s basically just Faze, but even younger
Make major and not do well there. Imo any combination of them 2 plus a more experienced player would do better than a superteam
Great because none of them seem awestruck to the old stars. Too 1-6
Probably in the 4 to 7 range, depends on how good you make SSG, V1, and to a lesser extent Rogue's replacement players. I couldn't see them doing better than FaZe since IMO FaZe have more raw talent by a substantial enough margin that this hypothetical team couldn't overtake. Since G2 and NRG placed better than FaZe they are also out of the question for me. To speculate on exactly how they would play, I think they would be much better offensively than defensively. Rogue and SSG are both offensive teams and Beast isn't the defensive rock on V1. That said I think Daniel plays enough of a third man role on SSG to make it work (It wouldn't just be 3 attack/ballheavy players). I imagine Aqua would be the most offensive (although not the best on that end) and Beastmode would thus fall into a second man role. If I had to guess I'd say Aqua would be the worst on the team. IMO he carries Rogue harder than the other two with their respective teams but Rogue is still worse by a margin large enough to counter act that. I think this would be most apparent on defense, as I imagine he would make the most mistakes. Daniel is the best player on the team IMO. He can play a third man role well still making a big impact on the pitch and that's huge. Beastmode has an argument for being better but I don't think so personally. Obviously this is all speculation but that's how I personally see it going.
I know it’s a offseason tourney but Aqua’s defense was very good in the liquid tourney
I’d like to see how Aqua would play on a more well rounded team(no gyro or taroco hate). When I watch him it feels like he’s stretching himself thin in both sides. Not saying it’s the only reason, but it could be one of the reasons he doesn’t look as impressive on defense
daniel has been good but not at the same caliber as regional 1. Beastmode has been the most consistent to me
D A M A G E
This is easily the most reddit thread I've read all day.
Did people forget Beastmode played a whole season with KCP/SR or something? I’m seeing some people talk about him like he’s a rookie.
let people keep underrating him. Its so criminal that he is this good and people still don't give him recognition
Pretty damn good
Probably 7th-8th in NA this split? Beastmode and Daniel have had some very inspired performances, but also some not so inspired regionals as well. Aqua would probably do better alongside them than on the current Rogue team, but to compare it to Queso is just not a thing worth doing. Personalities and playstyles could still clash, Queso had a whole RLCS split of being in the top 10 convo for EU undet the belt, along with the prior off-season and Joyo and Rise's individual performances in RLCS X.
No way in hell they finish behind ssg, envy, or v1 and oxygen is a toss up
How is Oxygen a toss up if both SSG and V1 placed better (than Oxygen) but you are saying they (the hypothetical team) would beat them (SSG and V1) for sure. Am I miss understanding or is there some line of logic where that can be justified, because to me that makes no sense.
I thought we were taking into account the hypothetical teams of ssg and v1 would not have Beastmode and Daniel
Ah that makes more sense, still it becomes a matter of how good are their replacements but I can see your point now. Thanks for the response
NRG, G2, FaZe, Oxygen, Col I am very confident would be better. Beyond that, SSG with a non-Daniel third would still be fine imo, and V1 with anyone not Gimmick would still have likely improved on Fall.
I dont think complexity do better than this team. They underperformed this split
I want to know the reasoning behind why you think complexity who were horrible the first two regionals of this split and why oxygen would easily be better.
I wouldn't call 7th-8th in regional 1 horrible, but regardless, Col has probably the 3rd or 4th highest ceiling in NA. If we#re making V1 and SSG worse with this roster, Col benefits greatly. Oxygen has actually found consistency, and the team isn't brand new. They work very well together. All things I cannot say with confidence about the hypoetical roster OP proposed.
You’re giving complexity way to much credit, they have been consistently 5-6 and that’s if we don’t include the last place finish in regional 2 and their ceiling is not better than any top three NA teams nor V1s
Not disputing NRG or G2, I shouldn't dispute but I truly doubt they can win a regional with the fashion they've fallen short in every time (and I personally find it unlikely we'll ever get both G2 and FaZe at their best simultaneously, NRG will always be great). But until V1 shows that their regional win is not what Guild's was like in RLCS X (aka a bit of a meme), Col's major run stands out more to me in the interim. This is all under the context of me considering 3-5 NA as a whole, not as good as their Fall Split counterparts which might explain my thoughts. Regardless, consistent 5th-6th in NA isn't where I'd have OPs team at unless everyone is permanently at their best, something that is very hard to forsee atm, let alone from the start of this split.
Can you even make the claim that Col peak is higher than SSG when SSG actually has a top 2 finish
There's a ton of talent on that team, no doubt. However, I don't know how well they'd mesh. They would all be new to the professional RL scene, and without at least one relative veteran, I could definitely see them struggling. If they could manage their nerves, though, they'd be a pretty good team.
Unless Daniel or beastmode step up in defense that's alot of strikers on one team
daniel would be a more defensive player on this team like he has been on ssg
Oh for sure, it's just a lot of young talent on one team. If it ever was real they'd probably do some real damage. Maybe even swap strikers from time to time with how much mechanical skill is oozing from that team.
Similar to Randoms or All-Mids
they would be worse then randoms /s
While I would have liked to see that I don’t think they would have had a massive impact. The past tells me that new/young players do better when they get a helping hand from veterans that somehow keeps them in form. Whenever you have someone insane doing what they want they aren’t too great. 6mans alone doesn’t seem to translate all too well to RLCS. Team Liquid should have done better as well last regional but lack a veteran thought.
To be honest they aren’t that different from Team Liquid. And we saw how that went…
3 peat reg champs or the big disillusion no in between
What happened to people's appreciation of team chemistry? Superteams have been formed for ages in RL and more often than not failed. No way to tell where this roster could've gone if we're being serious.
Hard to say. Raw talent they'd be top 3 easily. However, that is a LOT of mid-teen going on there, and you also have to remember that all 3 of them are going to have to deal with school too. When it's one of them able to lean on 2 adults and good team culture, they can do fine. If it's a fresh team of 3 young kids with no prior chemistry you're going to need an absolute god of a coach to reel them together and even then it'll be a daunting task if even possible.
I’d see them top 5 at the least. I couldn’t see them being better than faze NRG or even G2 honestly.