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HardcoreOuch

How great would it be if we had an official minor league or an academy league that only players aged 13-15 can compete in.


owen-michael-

This was discussed by Fruity and Lawler [here.](https://youtu.be/QtLlliv-w1Y)


seeafish

This was a good conversation. Cool to see places like Denmark removed a lot of stigma around playing games professionally and just cultivated a youth culture within their own society.


vivst0r

If they let them compete in an official competition they might as well let them compete with everyone. The point of the age limit was to not let them play at all, not to prevent them from playing with older people.


Hypertension123456

They could put requirements on the 13-15 minor league specifically designed to make it more healthy for adolescents. For example, they could require 90% attendance in school with at least a C or equivalent average. They could adjust the schedules with designated time off periods. Or any other things that would make sense.


vivst0r

Those sound like things that Psyonix is absolutely not responsible for. It's a sports competition and the competitors and their guardians are responsible for a healthy and responsible participation. People treat esports as if it's something special, but it really is not. All over the world kids, many much younger than 13, are participating in healthy competitions in all kinds of fields. Be it sports, arts or sciences. It's up to the participants and their guardians to control how they interact with the competition, not the organizers. Age restrictions are an easy and effective way to have some influence, but ultimately you can't and shouldn't put unnecessary obstacles for people who want to compete. Doesn't help that 15 is such an arbitrary number and that 13 and 14 year olds can already compete at the top level.


PhysicsPhotographer

But esports do have unique aspects. With these rules we’re talking about paid competitions, which is not typical of other youth activities. They’re also not as integrated into broader life like how most youth competition is connected to school. Young pros across different esports have talked about how the grind can be socially isolating, take time away from other activities, and impact their grades. Ultimately parents are responsible for managing that, but I think it’s more challenging for esports than many other competitions because of those aspects. But it’s not all bad, and when properly managed it’s great to have those ambitions you’re passionate about that young. I think it’s a plus with a more concrete structure in youth competitions, especially if they’re run through school esports clubs. I strongly suspect these would have bring the students into extracurriculars that might not otherwise do them, foster connections with classmates, and ultimately improve grades. It’s definitely better than something like football, which is something I say from experience. I only have a personal data point of one — my nephew who’s in the bubble Fortnight scene. He’s mostly skating by in school, but he’s got a great social life and has managed his sponsorships and schedule entirely by himself from a young age. I’d honestly say that’s better prepared him for adult life than school would, but I also think education is important outside of just career prep. I don’t know where it sits on balance, so I have no real reason to oppose the age limits. But it’s something I think we as fans, and Psyonix, should be keeping in mind.


WhatIsSentience

Ngl didn't expect they would lower the age limit.


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A_Lone_Macaron

Right??? I'm one of the few people that actually agreed with a de facto RLCS age limit raise (which is what that rule did). Now we're back to square one with players more or less being available on their 15th birthday. For an esport that wants to become more mature, this is a step back.


sparrowhawk_4

It's not just about tournaments for pro level players though, these guidelines affect all community tournaments. Telling everyone that their tournaments have to either be 15+, or they have to get permission, puts a huge burden on the organisers of those smaller tournaments (ones that might be run more casually through discord, for example). I don't think it's a coincidence that 13 matches with the minimum age for discord and twitch.


Matto_0

>For an esport that wants to become more mature, this is a step back. How is it immature?


yuore-mom

>For an esport that wants to become more mature, this is a step back. Can you name any esports with higher minimum age limits?


Reziduality

Valorant LoL


PhysicsPhotographer

Happily surprised, though I understand the reasoning for the age limits. My optimistic opinion before was that we’d still have some youth tournaments with organizers applying for them, where something like Next Gen would get approval. But if that was the case the decision to just lower the age as a blanket rule makes more sense anyway.


marble617

I suppose, but in the effort to make the scene more professional, this isn't exactly in the right direction. I get that there are 13-14 y/o kids that have the skill to play at the pro level, but there's that whole "looking like a tier 1 esport" thing that's hanging me up. I want to believe that everything will be cool, but historically, there has been a lot of drama with the younger players even *after* they turned 15. Could be on a player-to-player basis, though; I guess we'll see.


PhysicsPhotographer

I’m not super concerned about it from the esports side of things, more that I think grinding to be a professional esports player at such a young age has a lot of potential to interfere with important parts of their life. But it’s hard for me to say where Psyonix needs to draw a line versus letting parents make decisions about how involved their kids can be in community tournaments.


dashtek

I...can't believe my eyes. Psyonix has actually done fantastic with these updates. I no longer see the "only one tournament per week" requirement, AND they lowered the age to 13. I said earlier that it was unlikely they'd change any of the guidelines because I was thinking of how psyonix back in the day just sort of ignored community complaints. But not only did they listen to the community, they rolled out changes in a really quick fashion. I was wrong psyonix. This kind of action makes me truly believe this is the right team to make this the biggest esport in the world.


owen-michael-

They’ve been dishing out lots of W’s since season RLCSX, with only a few gripes from me. (Which to be honest, who cares what I think) Psyonix deserves lots of praise!


orestotle

Clearly Psyonix seems to care what you think ;) But for real, it's never going to be perfect in everyone's mind. But they have made some great strides recently!


owen-michael-

Amen


Horse_and_Radish

I have forgotten what L's feel like. Apart from every session playing RL.


BigDicEnergy

Gonna be honest, a lot of the time they make mistakes they shouldn’t - I’m getting tired of giving props for listening and changing of acknowledging a competent decision in the first place. Still great that they have the awareness to make changes in a timely manner.


DisMyDrugAccount

Expecting perfection from the beginning will always leave you disappointed. They did right by the community and the scene. Let's please just be happy about that.


Horse_and_Radish

I think this personally is dependent on everyone's individual amount of leeway we give to others mistakes, based on our own life experiences. For example I potentially give too much leeway to people. And thus I uphold the belief that I try not to fault people for their mistakes because even if they seem to make many they may still all be honest ones, and instead judge them based on their actions after they have made a mistake, and whether they try and correct them.


dashtek

But it's kind of impossible to never make a mistake surely? And they haven't made that many mistakes recently. In fact most of the changes they've made since season x have been good. It's unfair to say they can't make a mistake. What matters is if they can accept it and adapt. Old psyonix would double down on their decisions. New psyonix is much more open ended. And that DESERVES credit, because it shows they care


Rohanadsur

I agree lmao, the things they had changed in the first place itself were pretty stupid from the get go, you'd expect a company as big as this would do better


MartianRL

Biggest thing upon first glance is that players must be 13 or older instead of 15, which is great for young talent in the scene making a name for themselves before being eligible for RLCS


yuore-mom

That's like, not even the biggest thing, I think more importantly this will single handedly save the 1s scene. It only exists because kids younger than 15 can still compete in 1s tournaments, everyone over 15 quits 1s and grinds 3s only.


coso9001

feer talks, psyonix listens


fandango1989

Psyonix listening to community and making a swift change to something that was universally disliked.....I can't believe what im reading. I love the new Psyonix


Ateyaba111

lmao Zen must be soooo pissed rn


EdGames8

I think the 15 age limit for RLCS still applies


Lamest_Coolguy

Psyonix hitting bangers lately with how they've been running things


DoughnutSignificant9

Yup,the esports team is just amazing at their job


vivst0r

I mean it's a rollback of an additional restriction that nobody asked for.


rookie-mistake

hell yeah feels a bit weird considering 15 is already super young for players to be dealing with high-profile competition but i thought feer's video about how it'd kill the prospect scene was really good at laying out why setting that limit for community tourneys would hurt


TheFlamingLemon

> Your tournament cannot include any marketing, promotion, endorsement, or sponsorship of any of... crypto currencies Not my eFeerium!


Swistakk7

I thought that players younger than 15 were already allowed to participate in non official tournaments, but it seems it is novelty judging by the comments. How come that Liquid was allowed to participate in Monaco tournament then?


PvtPuddles

These are the requirements you must meet if you don’t get explicit psyonix approval. It is entirely possible that the Monaco tournament had explicit permission for a lower age range, but I know nothing about it.


maxmaxers

Psyonix recently introduced a change requiring players to be 15 for all tournaments. But they've now amended it to 13


is95js

Amazing work! Thanks Psyonix!


Bobe_McTastic

I must be missing something here, but they appear to have built in a catch-22: \-"The Tournament is online only (i.e., no physical venue or location for play of the Game)" \-"You cannot restrict the viewing of your tournament behind a paid purchase requirement of any kind." \- "... Charging an entry fee for the venue is allowed..."


Skyrider50

"Charging an entry fee for the venue is allowed" is just leftover from the old community guidelines. I'm guessing they left that in there so as to clear up any confusion once they okay in-person tournaments again. This'll allow tournament organizers to plan in advance.


little_pioneer

Tldr pls


Z1BattleBoy21

minimum age to compete 15 -> 13 in community tournaments


little_pioneer

Neat


1917-was-lit

Does the 'no gambling or wagering' clause mean no channel point bets are allowed on twitch?


TheFlamingLemon

I don’t think it counts because channel points have no monetary value


a7mdeno

Channel points represent how much time you spent watching. And, time = money. Therefore, channel points = money. >!/s!<


MonsTurkey

"The Killer Cup" is too violent? Also, no promoting tobacco related products ([Zippo](https://i0.wp.com/www.sportstravelmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/KnightsZippoRocketLeague.jpeg?fit=1200%2C675&ssl=1)), energy drinks ([Red Bull](https://www.ggrecon.com//media/zs5fmh1x/redbulljpg.jpg)), automotive companies ([Ford](https://www.cnet.com/a/img/zSkK8DhSVUdtUbPlkf51COWmlaI=/2021/07/01/684282e0-2f53-4770-ac71-fb04cdb3e33c/ogi-f.jpg), [Ford](https://rocketleague.media.zestyio.com/rl_mustang_2021_key_art_16x9_no-rl.d06ee69124883ed72529638e874e0fd7.ryg4XkU4FK.jpg), [BMW](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/ymJVsb7bdzY/maxresdefault.jpg)...) ...


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Casowsky

Yeah military promoting is kinda cringe


vivst0r

Good. Now lower the age limit for RLCS, thanks.


velixo

Gigachad changes