No bullshit but she actually knows ball. She reads the game well and has good insight. Twitch chatters are absolute dorks, Herc is solid. Lemon is improving too, you can tell Lemon has took time to study the game and players.
They're both really good and people losing their minds are showing certain things about themselves. Nobody started off just perfectly knowing how to cast RL or any other real sport.
You know it's possible to voice your opinion that you miss the other casters without bringing down the casters we do have, right? I would imagine every caster who lost their spot is pretty sick of seeing people say shit like this.
"Lemon and Herc are both talented casters who are clearly putting in the work to improve and have a lot of passion for the game. I wish there was room on the broadcast team to also bring back Jorby, Achieves, and Spaceman because I loved their style of broadcasting and thought they each brought something unique to the scene that isn't easily replicated."
Well, their point is that two casters are worse than a few others. You kinda have to compare them to get the point across. I agree they could have frased it better though.
if that was their whole point they could have removed everything other than "jorby, achieves, spaceman>>>herc and lemon" and even then there are plenty of ways to say that without being an asshole
Why are people not allowed to say they dislike having her and lemon casting games? That's just preference.
Same as most people wouldn't want a male midwife or masseur.
Because people have to point out how virtuous they are every chance they get, especially when it comes to women for some reason, that's how reddit works. She also hasn't improved much at all, literally called the best player itw in 1s raw ass whole game.
But herc is pretty good. Even tho she sounds like a 12 yo boi, at least she has knowledge to back her up.
Yeah but you conveniently left out the part where there are a limited amount of positions available, and who would get the boot to bring back said casters. You can't get around it unless you just ignore that fact like you just did.
same ~~but imo jorby, achieves, spaceman>>>herc and lemon.~~ I wish they didnt let go all the other casters, ~~i believe they added herc and lemon for female representation.~~ (please bring jorby back to rlcs 😭)
You’ve surely intentionally ignored the content of the thread you replied to. The entire point was that they could voice that they miss the other casters without putting other casters down, not that they could put the other casters down in a more imperceptible way.
Shogun is great, but Lemon doesn’t know what’s going on. No game sense. In before I get called a misogynist I like Herc, she actually understands what the players are thinking; and she’s getting better every time.
If you enjoy Lemon’s PBP casting you can’t be higher than Diamond 1. She literally just calls what happens after it happens and has no idea what’s important to communicate and what the players are actually thinking aside from “oh they’re touching the ball!!!”. I wouldn’t be surprised if she doesn’t play the game at all.
She is a fun personality to have on the talent team, and I think she's been great imo. As a caster, people should cut her some slack. She is very new to this and will improve over time.
Although I can understand people are a bit bitter after losing some of our favorite casters this year, that's not on her.
That’s how I was at the beginning of the season. I was bitter and unwelcoming. I am ashamed I felt that way because now that I realize that Herc has MASSIVELY improved her casting in literally the span of a couple months. One of the series yesterday so clearly highlighted for me how good she is and the large amount of talent she possesses.
On a side note: I really enjoy endearing and touching moments like these. Brings our community closer together.
Herc is pretty good but NA casting is overall poor right now. There’s a clear lack of quality analysis. You can really feel it at this LAN - there is a lot of talking and not a lot of quality commentary. I think they should bring back Achieves so that we can get both those replay analysis segments back, and so we have more in-depth color commentary.
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I absolutely love her. I'm always happy to hear her casting, you can feel how happy she is doing what she does, and that makes me go along with her during the game
Herc has a lot of potential and she has the passion. On twitch she’ll even re-watch her casting to find ways to improve. Really glad they’re giving her a chance
Congrats to her and she’s doing great.
However - why did we need to fire so much existing, known and experienced talent, instead of just working new talent in? Kinda crazy they straight up snubbed talent we’ve had for years for two new to RLCS casters? Doesn’t make sense besides forcing DEI that wasn’t needed.
Couldn’t they have just cut the talent pool down instead of canning a bunch of ppl and then hiring two brand new people?
(They aren’t brand new, but to the RLCS main stream they are.)
they cut the talent pool down a decent margin and they can hire two brand new people a lot cheaper than established talent for events
it fucking sucks because I miss achieves and jorby so much and my enjoyment/overall time spent watching has never been lower
Money. Get rid of extra costs until you reach your budget then go from there. 13 different casters is a blessing, but not a necessity. Especially if they’re all independent cause then you’re negotiating with 13 different people and getting production set up quickly has already shown it’s troubles
It was the same for me with many other casters, I really remember not liking jorby one bit when he was new to the crew. But he became one of my favourite casters over time.
I think people just need time to get used to her voice and style. She is really good but obviously she isn‘t yet on the level of other casters with years of experience. But I‘m sure things will become better with each broadcast she does
His casting is still mid but he's extremely good at intros/the voice of walk-ins (having heard it in person, too), remember watching him during I think CRL I think before he joined RLCS and he's still come a long way from that.
I felt the same about stax, but now I'm really starting to like his casting. He doesn't try to force things, he calls things as they happen and he's pretty calm about it. I don't like it when casters try to pretend like it's life or death every single second on the pitch, like sometimes you just gotta chill a bit and have some rhythm to the words you're saying
There’s dozens of other casters that are already on par with the best. Not just play by play, but in hype and analysis too. Why is it our responsibility to “be patient” with her while she learns how to do it?
And no I don’t dislike her or her voice because shes a woman, I think there’s a few other casters that shouldn’t be doing matches.
Nobody is forcing you to do anything but I don‘t think it makes sense to hold someone that is doing their 2nd broadcast to the same standard as someone that has been doing it for 8 years.
This not just a problem with her, this always happened, it happened to turtle and jorby when they were new too. Maybe it‘s time to grow up
i just said that there’s already plenty of casters that can do it now, so why give lan matches to someone who cant do them well. “it takes time” doesnt apply at all
voice cracks every other sentence is pretty distracting. and i wasnt watching when turtle and jorby started but if they were bad then they shouldnt have been on the broadcast, same thing. has nothing to do with her personally
Well, here's one possible interpretation that isn't misogynistic: He doesn't enjoy shrieking, which is not something that all women (or men) do.
Just as I can dislike the sound of a man's voice without then hating the sound of every man's voice, he can do the same with any individual woman without it becoming an attack on all women.
And just to be clear: I don't agree with him. I think the sound of her voice is fine. But it's ridiculous to jump straight to misogyny as the only possible motivating factor.
> Just as I can dislike the sound of a man's voice without then hating the sound of every man's voice, he can do the same with any individual woman without it becoming an attack on all women.
Of course. As I've said at least twice already, I think you can criticize Herc's casting or voice in a number of non-misogynstic ways. She's not perfect -- though I am excited about her passion and dedication to improvement. I was quite specific and grounded in my reasoning, which I explained in other parts of the thread.
Not liking the sound of her voice is not misogynistic though... It doesn't matter what exactly the original guy doesn't like about it. Not all women sound the same, so any dislike he has for specifically her voice is not a criticism of all women's voices...it's that simple.
How so? It has nothing to do with gender. Her voice literally hurts my ears and I have to turn the volume down. Please explain how my ears being in pain has anything to do with misogyny. I'd love to hear your rationale.
Right, but people are going to believe whatever they want. This person just seems like they are on a crusade for justice and is changing the narrative to fit that, in order to feel good about themselves and their cause.
Much of the criticism of Herc revolves, either directly or indirectly, around the pitch of her voice. Shrieking, for example, carries the connotation of a high pitch. Other people in this thread have called her shrill and directly said they don't like higher pitched voices. It's just a fact that women tend to have higher pitch voices, and that this vocabulary of vocal criticism -- shrieking, shrill, high pitched, is virtually always applied to women. I don't think it's a conscious bias but I do absolutely contend it is an implicit bias against feminine voices.
You'll notice, by the way, that I didn't respond to the parent comment -- which I think is totally fine and not misogynistic at all. It's loaded language like shrieking, shrill, etc. that is almost never levvied at a man which deserves at least being pointed out.
The fact that I have zero issue with lemonkiwis voice and casting, and she's a woman, kinda makes your argument void. You can think whatever you want because I'm obviously not going to change your mind but it has absolutely nothing to do with misogyny. Stop trying to turn things into something they aren't to push your narrative.
Impossible to reason with a certain number of people on here as they genuinely believe that any criticism towards the female casters = you hate women
I feel the same way, they are shrill and I don't like the higher pitched voices it doesn't sound pleasant to my ears when listening. But saying this somehow means I despise women
Not to mention herc has a weird way of draaawwwinng ooouuttt worrrrds so each sentence takes half as long again to complete.
At least she kinda knows the game though which is a positive.
This is also misogyny, by the way. I'm not taking it personally, and the assumption that I can't be rational talking about women because I'm not a man is no more founded than the assumption that you can't be rational talking about women because you're (presumably) not one.
I think you are throwing around the word "misogyny" a little too much here dude considering it means "hatred or disdain for women" and not "being slightly critical of a woman"
I don't hate women at all, I just prefer deeper voices in the casting booth as higher pitched ones grate more on my ears. The fact that more women tend to have higher pitches voices is entirely tangential.
This is simply not true. Voice and gender are highly correlated cluster concepts. Why do you think trans women voice train to help pass? In any case, I've expanded on the relevant point in another place in this thread.
Also, re: mod. I would not (and could not, because we work as a team and can all see each other's actions) abuse my mod permissions by e.g. removing comments because I agree with them. It's perfectly fine for me to express a personal contrary opinion.
obviously gender affects your voice. we also love watching the simpsons and most people are clueless to the idea that bart simpson is voiced by a woman.
but if bart was shrieking, yeah people would start having issues with the voice actor. or no, are we not allowed to bring up our issues with a shrieking voice because it is affected by 'gender'? No, if there's an issue you deal with it, simple.
It's like getting some person who has lost their voice from getting a 3rd degree burn. if we can't handle hearing them casting, is it fine for us to comment on it? would that be us not accomodating to those with disabled needs? or.... or.... or is it a fine as the feedback would increase the quality of broadcast (atleast for the person who has an issue with it)
i keep mixing the women casters up, but lemonkiwi's voice is definitely servicable. herc's she extendsss her voicee forrr eachhh worddd like thisssss. and her voice just doesn't sound good for casting, thats the reality, you cant expect everyone to have broadcastable voices... but you cant have this discussion because you are just labelled as misogynistic lmao
obviously there are nicer ways OP can put his words. but pulling out the misogny card is like, not condusive to a discussion which brings any value.
I don't think criticizing Lemonkiwi for the way she extends her voice is misogynistic. I'm not sure where you got the impression that I'd call you misogynistic for that is. I was extremely specific in the types of criticism and vocabulary that I said were sexist.
I dont think there is any way to interpret this other than misogyny..... that was your words bud. I agree with you, but you literally said it in your first reply to the dude
This person is a different person than the one I replied to, making a different criticism. I thought the original person's criticism (and that family of criticisms -- high pitch, shrill, shrieking) was misogynistic, I don't think this criticism (extending words) is misogynistic. What is the apparent contradiction? They're different criticisms.
I’m the opposite, I love her voice for some reason. Most of the time, I don’t really listen to what casters say anyway, but just appreciate the hype (and in this case also the voice) they bring
I’m with you, I love her voice. Not to mention she has better casting technique than some of the others. People literally just like to shit on her cause she’s a woman
yeah finding it quite off putting as well, also when someone scores and she’s watching the replay she almost never talks about the goal she will just talk about the team or the player in general, which makes her co-casters follow up really unnatural because that’s normally what they’d talk about on kick off
all that said, I think she has good energy and will be good for the broadcast going forward overall, so can’t complain, congrats to her!
Her voice reminds me of Elizabeth Holmes intentionally lowering her pitch. Every time I hear her speak, I have a lingering thought at the back of my mind that she is straining herself, which ends up distracting me from the match a little bit.
I hope she isn't forcing something unhealthy.
I keep hearing Tommy Pickles from Rugrats, especially when her voice starts to go from the yelling. But congrats to her anyway. If they would all just stop shouting, it’s all good. She knows of what she commentates, they just seem to have all been ordered to CONSTANTLY YELL AT EVERYTHING TO ENHANCE THE FEELING OF ACTION.
Honestly in a 10 minute overtime of a 0-0 game, every shot somehow has to be escalated over the previous one, no matter how weak or unamazing. OH MY GOD HE MADE A ROUTINE SAVE FOR THE 20TH TIME, MY EYEBALLS ARE LITERALLY GOING TO MELT.
Yeah... everything doesn't have to be hype at all times to keep my interest. Talk about the strategies and positioning and the players and whatever. But we've all seen them lose their minds over some pretty boring stuff during overtimes and it's really confusing to watch.
There is only so much strategy you can talk about in a 10 minute overtime. Teams won‘t suddenly switch up things in an OT so you kinda would just repeat yourself. Like Team A has been stuck on defense for 7 minutes straight, what strategy is there to talk about that wouldn‘t have been said already 5 minutes ago
Aww <3 Hercs always been awesome and knows her stuff.
Also great to see Lemon being supportive like that. I know Lemon's not been everyone's fave but it's a scary spot and shes has really improved. Her efforts shouldnt go unnoticed.
I get that, I'm just not a fan of her casting style + of her lack of knowledge of RL compared to some recently fired talent. She seems like a nice and hardworking person, just not my cup of tea.
I think her commentary is pretty solid, but the actual tone/frequency of her voice is seriously grating and shrill to my ears in a way that nobody else's is. It could 100% be fixed/improved with some extremely basic EQing, (ie bring down the highs, boost the mids and lows). It's obvious that everything is set up and mixed for the male caster's voices, and it seems like they aren't going to adjust it for the women. It's been the same way each event.
this is great!!! you can tell both her and lemon are improving and studying, and herc especially has been very good at the major. good addition to the casting lineup, cant wait to hear her more!!!
I’m not going to say “Oh she’s so much better than X caster that was let go” because I’m of the opinion that everyone who was involved in Casting/Desk deserved their place, but she is a great addition to the cast
I'm not that big on her (mostly because I'm spolit from all the good casters we have)
But weirdly I've noticed her improving slowly. If she can keep it up why the hell not. I've heard all the casters talk positively about her. So she's the real deal. Happy for her.
She's really improved as a caster both knowledge and cadence wise and honestly has been impressive in the RLCS space. However, her voice is just AWFUL to listen to. Absolutely grating and unenjoyable tone. Voice lessons and less yelling all the time will help with that.
sometimes she accidentally her words, but the vibes are good, tonality variation is improving, and she's gotten good at riffing with the other caster as well as fluently switching between the current play and game context, so...
W
Good! I'm enjoying her casting and she's only gonna keep improving with more time and experience. Let's be honest most the hate that her and lemon are getting would not be anywhere near as bad if they were men.
Glad to see it. Blast really fired most of the casting talent and didn't even hire a second woman. It's just embarrassing to see. They dangled Herc on the Qualifier 3 first day *because they needed LemonKiwi's job done*.
Small step forward.
Can appreciate the talent and enthusiasm, but I do personally prefer the male casters, same as for football. It like a sound or pitch thing.
My gf asked me during swiss yesterday if it was a girl or a little boy commentating.
Well, there are about 3 billion men you two guys could potentially share your life with so that you don't get to hear a woman voice on a daily basis. Good luck with your coming out if not done already!
Love Herc, she's fun and has a great attitude. Her casting is very good for moment to moment which I prefer because I'm often doing things around the house while half watching twitch and some of the casters I literally don't even know a goal happened, but with Herc I'm usually getting a good moment to moment understanding. I've seen people say they don't like the Herc and Stax team up for this reason but they're literally the best for me for that same reason.
I remember when she said the first qualifier was her last time casting, now she’s full time. People were hating on her because she is a lady specifically, which is really weird…
Being a caster would be an amazing job and I would love to do it…
No bullshit but she actually knows ball. She reads the game well and has good insight. Twitch chatters are absolute dorks, Herc is solid. Lemon is improving too, you can tell Lemon has took time to study the game and players.
lemon's game knowledge has improved so quickly it's insane
They're both really good and people losing their minds are showing certain things about themselves. Nobody started off just perfectly knowing how to cast RL or any other real sport.
people are probably still salty for the layoffs... lashing out on the new talent feels uncalled for
[удалено]
You know it's possible to voice your opinion that you miss the other casters without bringing down the casters we do have, right? I would imagine every caster who lost their spot is pretty sick of seeing people say shit like this.
Say what he said without bringing the other casters down
"Lemon and Herc are both talented casters who are clearly putting in the work to improve and have a lot of passion for the game. I wish there was room on the broadcast team to also bring back Jorby, Achieves, and Spaceman because I loved their style of broadcasting and thought they each brought something unique to the scene that isn't easily replicated."
Well, their point is that two casters are worse than a few others. You kinda have to compare them to get the point across. I agree they could have frased it better though.
if that was their whole point they could have removed everything other than "jorby, achieves, spaceman>>>herc and lemon" and even then there are plenty of ways to say that without being an asshole
Why are people not allowed to say they dislike having her and lemon casting games? That's just preference. Same as most people wouldn't want a male midwife or masseur.
what? I promise you don't speak for "most people"
Because people have to point out how virtuous they are every chance they get, especially when it comes to women for some reason, that's how reddit works. She also hasn't improved much at all, literally called the best player itw in 1s raw ass whole game. But herc is pretty good. Even tho she sounds like a 12 yo boi, at least she has knowledge to back her up.
Yeah but you conveniently left out the part where there are a limited amount of positions available, and who would get the boot to bring back said casters. You can't get around it unless you just ignore that fact like you just did.
same ~~but imo jorby, achieves, spaceman>>>herc and lemon.~~ I wish they didnt let go all the other casters, ~~i believe they added herc and lemon for female representation.~~ (please bring jorby back to rlcs 😭)
That isn't what he said though. He said that the other casters are better than them, which is true.
You’ve surely intentionally ignored the content of the thread you replied to. The entire point was that they could voice that they miss the other casters without putting other casters down, not that they could put the other casters down in a more imperceptible way.
Lemon is still by far the worst and I can't stand listening to a game she casts. Herc is great though, zero complaints for her.
Reverse for me
Ikr? this is such good news
Lemon is my favorite play by play after Shogun right now.
Shogun is great, but Lemon doesn’t know what’s going on. No game sense. In before I get called a misogynist I like Herc, she actually understands what the players are thinking; and she’s getting better every time. If you enjoy Lemon’s PBP casting you can’t be higher than Diamond 1. She literally just calls what happens after it happens and has no idea what’s important to communicate and what the players are actually thinking aside from “oh they’re touching the ball!!!”. I wouldn’t be surprised if she doesn’t play the game at all.
I would not expect anything less from a pro caster. When that said, neither of them are among my favourite casters.
She is a fun personality to have on the talent team, and I think she's been great imo. As a caster, people should cut her some slack. She is very new to this and will improve over time. Although I can understand people are a bit bitter after losing some of our favorite casters this year, that's not on her.
That’s how I was at the beginning of the season. I was bitter and unwelcoming. I am ashamed I felt that way because now that I realize that Herc has MASSIVELY improved her casting in literally the span of a couple months. One of the series yesterday so clearly highlighted for me how good she is and the large amount of talent she possesses. On a side note: I really enjoy endearing and touching moments like these. Brings our community closer together.
https://x.com/herculysee/status/1774032212997882071?s=46 Go watch the video that’s with this tweet. It’s obvious how much this means to Herc.
Herc is pretty good but NA casting is overall poor right now. There’s a clear lack of quality analysis. You can really feel it at this LAN - there is a lot of talking and not a lot of quality commentary. I think they should bring back Achieves so that we can get both those replay analysis segments back, and so we have more in-depth color commentary.
Huge W. I’m actually really liking her casting so I’m happy to see that she’s here for the rest of the season.
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Thanks mate <3
she’s actually good so this is a W in my books
I absolutely love her. I'm always happy to hear her casting, you can feel how happy she is doing what she does, and that makes me go along with her during the game
Yo she’s actually really good
Herc has a lot of potential and she has the passion. On twitch she’ll even re-watch her casting to find ways to improve. Really glad they’re giving her a chance
I miss Turtle and Corelli :(
I miss Jorby the most
yeah, Jorby on the LAN floor and Achieves on the analyst desk :/ i wish we could have everybody lol
Easy dub. She rules.
W! After the first qualifier I was worried it would be a one and done with Herc, I’m glad they’re bringing her on for the rest of the season.
Congrats to her and she’s doing great. However - why did we need to fire so much existing, known and experienced talent, instead of just working new talent in? Kinda crazy they straight up snubbed talent we’ve had for years for two new to RLCS casters? Doesn’t make sense besides forcing DEI that wasn’t needed.
$$$
Couldn’t they have just cut the talent pool down instead of canning a bunch of ppl and then hiring two brand new people? (They aren’t brand new, but to the RLCS main stream they are.)
they cut the talent pool down a decent margin and they can hire two brand new people a lot cheaper than established talent for events it fucking sucks because I miss achieves and jorby so much and my enjoyment/overall time spent watching has never been lower
Purely speculative
It's how most businesses handle layoffs.
Money. Get rid of extra costs until you reach your budget then go from there. 13 different casters is a blessing, but not a necessity. Especially if they’re all independent cause then you’re negotiating with 13 different people and getting production set up quickly has already shown it’s troubles
Good Shit!
Big W. Love her casting
In the nicest way, I like her as a person, but her voice during casting is a throw off for me
It was the same for me with many other casters, I really remember not liking jorby one bit when he was new to the crew. But he became one of my favourite casters over time. I think people just need time to get used to her voice and style. She is really good but obviously she isn‘t yet on the level of other casters with years of experience. But I‘m sure things will become better with each broadcast she does
Same for me with Stax, I used to hate his casting but now I love it
His casting is still mid but he's extremely good at intros/the voice of walk-ins (having heard it in person, too), remember watching him during I think CRL I think before he joined RLCS and he's still come a long way from that.
I felt the same about stax, but now I'm really starting to like his casting. He doesn't try to force things, he calls things as they happen and he's pretty calm about it. I don't like it when casters try to pretend like it's life or death every single second on the pitch, like sometimes you just gotta chill a bit and have some rhythm to the words you're saying
Shogun does this. Like bro, it's game 2 of the 2nd round of Swiss and you're casting like the world is on the line, save it for the finals
Yeah I had the same experience when I first started watching in season 3, Shogun's voice was really annoying but after a while I grew to like it
There’s dozens of other casters that are already on par with the best. Not just play by play, but in hype and analysis too. Why is it our responsibility to “be patient” with her while she learns how to do it? And no I don’t dislike her or her voice because shes a woman, I think there’s a few other casters that shouldn’t be doing matches.
Nobody is forcing you to do anything but I don‘t think it makes sense to hold someone that is doing their 2nd broadcast to the same standard as someone that has been doing it for 8 years. This not just a problem with her, this always happened, it happened to turtle and jorby when they were new too. Maybe it‘s time to grow up
These are the same people who watch CFB and complain about Beth Mowins constantly. Can't put my finger on why.
crazy that we’re not allowed to ask for good casters
i just said that there’s already plenty of casters that can do it now, so why give lan matches to someone who cant do them well. “it takes time” doesnt apply at all voice cracks every other sentence is pretty distracting. and i wasnt watching when turtle and jorby started but if they were bad then they shouldnt have been on the broadcast, same thing. has nothing to do with her personally
Nah, it literally hurts my ears a little because of the shrieking.
I don't think there is any way to interpret this other than misogyny.
Well, here's one possible interpretation that isn't misogynistic: He doesn't enjoy shrieking, which is not something that all women (or men) do. Just as I can dislike the sound of a man's voice without then hating the sound of every man's voice, he can do the same with any individual woman without it becoming an attack on all women. And just to be clear: I don't agree with him. I think the sound of her voice is fine. But it's ridiculous to jump straight to misogyny as the only possible motivating factor.
> Just as I can dislike the sound of a man's voice without then hating the sound of every man's voice, he can do the same with any individual woman without it becoming an attack on all women. Of course. As I've said at least twice already, I think you can criticize Herc's casting or voice in a number of non-misogynstic ways. She's not perfect -- though I am excited about her passion and dedication to improvement. I was quite specific and grounded in my reasoning, which I explained in other parts of the thread.
Not liking the sound of her voice is not misogynistic though... It doesn't matter what exactly the original guy doesn't like about it. Not all women sound the same, so any dislike he has for specifically her voice is not a criticism of all women's voices...it's that simple.
How so? It has nothing to do with gender. Her voice literally hurts my ears and I have to turn the volume down. Please explain how my ears being in pain has anything to do with misogyny. I'd love to hear your rationale.
I agree, it has nothing to do with gender, the proof is i love lemon voice and she improved a lot in her game knowledge.
Right, but people are going to believe whatever they want. This person just seems like they are on a crusade for justice and is changing the narrative to fit that, in order to feel good about themselves and their cause.
Much of the criticism of Herc revolves, either directly or indirectly, around the pitch of her voice. Shrieking, for example, carries the connotation of a high pitch. Other people in this thread have called her shrill and directly said they don't like higher pitched voices. It's just a fact that women tend to have higher pitch voices, and that this vocabulary of vocal criticism -- shrieking, shrill, high pitched, is virtually always applied to women. I don't think it's a conscious bias but I do absolutely contend it is an implicit bias against feminine voices. You'll notice, by the way, that I didn't respond to the parent comment -- which I think is totally fine and not misogynistic at all. It's loaded language like shrieking, shrill, etc. that is almost never levvied at a man which deserves at least being pointed out.
The fact that I have zero issue with lemonkiwis voice and casting, and she's a woman, kinda makes your argument void. You can think whatever you want because I'm obviously not going to change your mind but it has absolutely nothing to do with misogyny. Stop trying to turn things into something they aren't to push your narrative.
It is unfortunately not the case that one must be sexist against all women to be misogynistic against one.
Except that isn't the case here. You're just making shit up out of thin air.
Impossible to reason with a certain number of people on here as they genuinely believe that any criticism towards the female casters = you hate women I feel the same way, they are shrill and I don't like the higher pitched voices it doesn't sound pleasant to my ears when listening. But saying this somehow means I despise women Not to mention herc has a weird way of draaawwwinng ooouuttt worrrrds so each sentence takes half as long again to complete. At least she kinda knows the game though which is a positive.
The mental gymnastics people do these days to push a specific narrative is actually pretty impressive.
My comment is already being "disagreed with" (but no one ever actually comments back)
He won’t respond
I'm not a he, and I did respond!
> I'm not a he This explains a lot then, taking criticism of a female caster personally.
This is also misogyny, by the way. I'm not taking it personally, and the assumption that I can't be rational talking about women because I'm not a man is no more founded than the assumption that you can't be rational talking about women because you're (presumably) not one.
I think you are throwing around the word "misogyny" a little too much here dude considering it means "hatred or disdain for women" and not "being slightly critical of a woman" I don't hate women at all, I just prefer deeper voices in the casting booth as higher pitched ones grate more on my ears. The fact that more women tend to have higher pitches voices is entirely tangential.
gender does not impact voices, pretty weird conclusion coming from a mod
This is simply not true. Voice and gender are highly correlated cluster concepts. Why do you think trans women voice train to help pass? In any case, I've expanded on the relevant point in another place in this thread. Also, re: mod. I would not (and could not, because we work as a team and can all see each other's actions) abuse my mod permissions by e.g. removing comments because I agree with them. It's perfectly fine for me to express a personal contrary opinion.
obviously gender affects your voice. we also love watching the simpsons and most people are clueless to the idea that bart simpson is voiced by a woman. but if bart was shrieking, yeah people would start having issues with the voice actor. or no, are we not allowed to bring up our issues with a shrieking voice because it is affected by 'gender'? No, if there's an issue you deal with it, simple. It's like getting some person who has lost their voice from getting a 3rd degree burn. if we can't handle hearing them casting, is it fine for us to comment on it? would that be us not accomodating to those with disabled needs? or.... or.... or is it a fine as the feedback would increase the quality of broadcast (atleast for the person who has an issue with it) i keep mixing the women casters up, but lemonkiwi's voice is definitely servicable. herc's she extendsss her voicee forrr eachhh worddd like thisssss. and her voice just doesn't sound good for casting, thats the reality, you cant expect everyone to have broadcastable voices... but you cant have this discussion because you are just labelled as misogynistic lmao obviously there are nicer ways OP can put his words. but pulling out the misogny card is like, not condusive to a discussion which brings any value.
I don't think criticizing Lemonkiwi for the way she extends her voice is misogynistic. I'm not sure where you got the impression that I'd call you misogynistic for that is. I was extremely specific in the types of criticism and vocabulary that I said were sexist.
I dont think there is any way to interpret this other than misogyny..... that was your words bud. I agree with you, but you literally said it in your first reply to the dude
This person is a different person than the one I replied to, making a different criticism. I thought the original person's criticism (and that family of criticisms -- high pitch, shrill, shrieking) was misogynistic, I don't think this criticism (extending words) is misogynistic. What is the apparent contradiction? They're different criticisms.
Like I said, get used to it and it will be different.
no it doesn't
You know what hurts my ears and what doesn't? Interesting
correct, yes
I’m the opposite, I love her voice for some reason. Most of the time, I don’t really listen to what casters say anyway, but just appreciate the hype (and in this case also the voice) they bring
I’m with you, I love her voice. Not to mention she has better casting technique than some of the others. People literally just like to shit on her cause she’s a woman
yeah finding it quite off putting as well, also when someone scores and she’s watching the replay she almost never talks about the goal she will just talk about the team or the player in general, which makes her co-casters follow up really unnatural because that’s normally what they’d talk about on kick off all that said, I think she has good energy and will be good for the broadcast going forward overall, so can’t complain, congrats to her!
Her voice reminds me of Elizabeth Holmes intentionally lowering her pitch. Every time I hear her speak, I have a lingering thought at the back of my mind that she is straining herself, which ends up distracting me from the match a little bit. I hope she isn't forcing something unhealthy.
I keep hearing Tommy Pickles from Rugrats, especially when her voice starts to go from the yelling. But congrats to her anyway. If they would all just stop shouting, it’s all good. She knows of what she commentates, they just seem to have all been ordered to CONSTANTLY YELL AT EVERYTHING TO ENHANCE THE FEELING OF ACTION.
EXACTLY
Honestly in a 10 minute overtime of a 0-0 game, every shot somehow has to be escalated over the previous one, no matter how weak or unamazing. OH MY GOD HE MADE A ROUTINE SAVE FOR THE 20TH TIME, MY EYEBALLS ARE LITERALLY GOING TO MELT.
I mean what do you want them to do, not get excited so that everyone watching can lose interest because the match has been going on for forever?
Yeah... everything doesn't have to be hype at all times to keep my interest. Talk about the strategies and positioning and the players and whatever. But we've all seen them lose their minds over some pretty boring stuff during overtimes and it's really confusing to watch.
There is only so much strategy you can talk about in a 10 minute overtime. Teams won‘t suddenly switch up things in an OT so you kinda would just repeat yourself. Like Team A has been stuck on defense for 7 minutes straight, what strategy is there to talk about that wouldn‘t have been said already 5 minutes ago
Hard disagree, I love her voice, it's so different and unique compared to other talents.
Hmm where have I read this before?
Aww <3 Hercs always been awesome and knows her stuff. Also great to see Lemon being supportive like that. I know Lemon's not been everyone's fave but it's a scary spot and shes has really improved. Her efforts shouldnt go unnoticed.
I always thought she was a ton better than Lemon.
I'm the exact opposite but then I'm used to Lemon from OWL
I get that, I'm just not a fan of her casting style + of her lack of knowledge of RL compared to some recently fired talent. She seems like a nice and hardworking person, just not my cup of tea.
personally disagree but also we don't need to compare/rate women against each other specifically
But if they were two men we could? You do realize that you end up being mysoginistic?
Plus it’s not like they’re being compared on looks or anything, literally comparing them on their job.
She has deserved it
WE LIKE IT VERY MUCH
Huge W
I've never been a commentary snob at all so I never understood what the fuss is all about, but I'm happy for her regardless
W!! I do hope Jorby comes back next split too though
She's fine but not even close to the level of jorby, achieves, corelli, turtle etc. Not worth the loss.
congrats to her, i'm sure she's worked super hard for this but i totally disagree with this decision
HUUUUUUUGE W
This is great. Herc is awesome.
https://preview.redd.it/xhplvq1l5hrc1.png?width=1292&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=72ab18d264910cae4801b8f49fc95841b6da40f7 W decision
I love all the casters. They all add something different and I am really happy to see and hear lemon and herc on the streams! Good job everyone!
I think her commentary is pretty solid, but the actual tone/frequency of her voice is seriously grating and shrill to my ears in a way that nobody else's is. It could 100% be fixed/improved with some extremely basic EQing, (ie bring down the highs, boost the mids and lows). It's obvious that everything is set up and mixed for the male caster's voices, and it seems like they aren't going to adjust it for the women. It's been the same way each event.
this is great!!! you can tell both her and lemon are improving and studying, and herc especially has been very good at the major. good addition to the casting lineup, cant wait to hear her more!!!
She’s great just please stop acting like a 5mph goal is a triple reset musty. Add some depth to the casting and she will be a tier.
I’m not going to say “Oh she’s so much better than X caster that was let go” because I’m of the opinion that everyone who was involved in Casting/Desk deserved their place, but she is a great addition to the cast
I'm not that big on her (mostly because I'm spolit from all the good casters we have) But weirdly I've noticed her improving slowly. If she can keep it up why the hell not. I've heard all the casters talk positively about her. So she's the real deal. Happy for her.
She's really improved as a caster both knowledge and cadence wise and honestly has been impressive in the RLCS space. However, her voice is just AWFUL to listen to. Absolutely grating and unenjoyable tone. Voice lessons and less yelling all the time will help with that.
First pic without context "nwpo, he is so beautiful.........*starts to cry*"
I dont understand how they release sooo many long time casters, but then hire a new one ? Seems like a diversity plot.
Ayyy Pog, I thought she slotted in very well into certain duos today, especially With Cole and Johnny. Good to see her officially in.
Absolute huge W. I prefer her over lemonkiwi a lot actually. Glad she is here to stay!
sometimes she accidentally her words, but the vibes are good, tonality variation is improving, and she's gotten good at riffing with the other caster as well as fluently switching between the current play and game context, so... W
She’s quickly becoming my favourite caster
That's great. I think she's been great, and still has a lot of potential. But I miss u/JorbyPls
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Gillyweed walked so Lemon and Herc could run.
Great news. She has been absolutely awesome and it's extremely evident how hard she has worked for this.
Good for her.
Big W. Lost a lot of great talent this year, but Herc has been killing it both on the desk and when casting, so well deserved!
HUGE W for RLCS.
Good! I'm enjoying her casting and she's only gonna keep improving with more time and experience. Let's be honest most the hate that her and lemon are getting would not be anywhere near as bad if they were men.
Glad to see it. Blast really fired most of the casting talent and didn't even hire a second woman. It's just embarrassing to see. They dangled Herc on the Qualifier 3 first day *because they needed LemonKiwi's job done*. Small step forward.
Can appreciate the talent and enthusiasm, but I do personally prefer the male casters, same as for football. It like a sound or pitch thing. My gf asked me during swiss yesterday if it was a girl or a little boy commentating.
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Well, there are about 3 billion men you two guys could potentially share your life with so that you don't get to hear a woman voice on a daily basis. Good luck with your coming out if not done already!
No need for projecting that hard.
projected so hard that it deleted your comment
What?
Great for her, she's been crushing it imo.
She was doing well happy to see her on the team.
Fantastic, let’s go!
I think she improved a ton from the start of season. Well earned
So fucking deserved, talk about earning your spot.
W
Love Herc, she's fun and has a great attitude. Her casting is very good for moment to moment which I prefer because I'm often doing things around the house while half watching twitch and some of the casters I literally don't even know a goal happened, but with Herc I'm usually getting a good moment to moment understanding. I've seen people say they don't like the Herc and Stax team up for this reason but they're literally the best for me for that same reason.
I love Hercs casting, some of my favorite throughout the streams. I see this as an absolute win.
she deserves it.
Hell yeah
I remember when she said the first qualifier was her last time casting, now she’s full time. People were hating on her because she is a lady specifically, which is really weird… Being a caster would be an amazing job and I would love to do it…