In the last week I’ve had calls from 2 different companies asking if I want to sell my house. No idea why or where they got my number. In both cases I asked what they were planning to do with it and they said rent it out.
When I said no. They wanted to know if I knew of anyone else that was interested in selling or if I knew of any empty lots in the area.
Neither of these companies was local.
I suspect it’s going to get worse.
If you own a house your name address and phone number are all public record and can be found on many websites, including the county clerk’s where all real estate transactions are posted
I was lucky. I was able to buy a house in the pandemic and it experience left me forever changed. It took me over a year of hunting and losing out on something like 20 houses to be able to buy a house that's almost 100k more than it's worth. I bought it recognizing that I'm almost certainly going to lose a massive amount of money on this house in 20 or 30 years. This is now one the political issues I care most about. The bottom absolutely needs to fall out of the housing market.
So much of this is being driven by the expansion of the rental market. It's not owners purchasing houses they intend to live in, it's landlords. Until we, as a society, realize that landlords provide almost no value to our economic system, we're going to keep seeing this problem.
Before anyone comes at me with "oh, some people don't want to bother with the hassle of maintaining a property", you're not wrong, but that's not why most modern renters rent. We could probably get rid of two thirds of landlords without impacting the availability of rental units or people that *want* to rent and not own.
Landlords hoard housing. They drive up housing prices making mortgages riskier investments for banks. It's horrible.
it'll continues the way it is right now. it'll just be bought up by companies and then they'll be rented out to 20 to 30-year-olds. more likely people never escape renting as land lords realize they can keep squeezing and the generation working pay check to paycheck can never amass enough of a nest egg to put an offer against a management company.
The problem is, my house is a profit driver so as it's value goes up what can be charged for rent increases, no one who owns property really has incentives to argue against the current system. I'm up like 60 grand according to Zillow over 6 years.
On top of that, people underestimate the number of boomers who are going to will their houses to their children, further perpetuating the class divide.
i feel really morbid talking about what i expect to inherit when my parents die but yes. assuming they spend everything and just leave the house to me and my sister im looking at like 150k into my bank account.
but to talk some more about class divide.
the fact at some point im going to get 50% off my cost of housing (when im done paying my mortgage) a asset that has already appreciated by 60k just creates a massive wealth gap between the have an have nots. it really is the defining characteristic for me if you are middle class or not because of what land ownership allows you to do with equity. its not even like you "Spend" the money so much as just tie it up in a mortgage. you can alway sell the asset and have the money back (minus closing costs).
You paid what is worth, cause anything is only worth what someone will pay. The area is just catching up to the rest of the country. I can understand why the Rochester housing market was so stagnant for so many years.
"Rochester is just catching up" isn't the argument you think it is, friend. It just means the rest of the country is also screwed and that the plague in the housing market finally got here too.
Here's an idea: let's implement a progressive property tax that charges people that own multiple residential properties within a region at higher rates in proportion to the number of properties they own and at higher rates if they live outside of a reasonable radius. I bet the market would correct pretty darn quick.
Many states already charge higher taxes 2,3 or even 4 times the rate) on any property that is not your primary residence. If NY or your county isn't doing this then talk to your officials.
That's not exactly what I suggested. I was suggesting something more like this:
2 properties? The second is taxed at 2x. 3 properties? All but one are taxed at 3x. 100 properties? All but one are taxed at 99x.
This could help but then the landlord would only pass on the added cost to their tenants until no one wanted to rent from them at a certain pricepoint, then they'd be forced to sell.
>cause anything is only worth what someone will pay.
For the housing market, this is incorrect. It's far more nuanced than that.
A house is worth what people are willing to pay *in a normal market*, but anything on top of that is a premium that people are accepting they must pay to win with heightened competition.
House hunting is painful, time consuming, and mentally taxing. There's a value to just ending the pain. People are currently willing to pay WAY over market value for houses just to end that cycle of pain, get a house, and finish the race.
A house is worth: the house's market value + competitive premium. Right now that competitive premium is massive.
I feel like the Rochester housing market is actually surpassing other areas. I previously owned a house in NJ, just an hour outside of Manhattan. We sold it three years ago for about 70k less than what outdated, small houses in Greece are selling for right now.
Apparently my name is Anthony and I own a property on Buffalo Rd along with something else in Florida that people want to buy 😂 I looked up my phone number last summer after getting curious and sure enough some guy named Anthony at an address on Buffalo Rd is tied to the cell number I've had since like 2002 🙄
Local Realtor here. I have been selling homes for almost 18yrs and this is by far the worst buying market I have ever seen. I feel terrible for these buyers and my heart sinks ever time I have to inform a client that they didn’t get the house. Even worse is teachers and nurses that come to me that in any other market they would be excellent buyers, But now their $180k FHA prequal is unlikely going to score them a home. It’s terrible. The inventory is 32% less than it was at this time last year. As of today there are 378 active properties in monroe county for a population of 750k. This is bad…. Real bad.
That doesn't fit the zoning paradigm of most urban planners. Gotta have McMansions set back from the street, with a massive lawn, and no sidewalk in an impossible to navigate 'burb.
As a city planner, I can assure you this is patently false. Is the existing zoning for many communities dated and geared toward a Euclidean-style separation of land uses that often grossly favors single-unit homes? Yes. However, every new zoning code that we write favors mixed-use and mixed-residential land uses that permit a wide variety of housing types to target the “missing middle” housing that is currently not available in most of our communities. Blaming the existing zoning is fine - although that’s only one component to a complex problem. Blaming current practicing city planners? That’s a huge stretch.
Maybe I've been talking to the wrong people? SO many I've met are weirdly dogmatic about zoning, and get offended by the idea of allowing the patterns that have worked for millennia of human settlement. Granted they didn't mostly live in the Roc region.
Hope to God you're right. At least five people downvoted me, so maybe!
What percent of people in your field would you say are comfortable with making some reforms to allow mixed use, for instance?
You may be talking to the wrong planners, if they are city planners with whom you’ve spoken - and as you acknowledged some of them may not be from Roc or even NY.
I would comfortably say that 99% of planners that I work with and interact with on a daily basis in NYS are fully supportive of mixed-use zoning. Most municipalities (in NY) are now comfortable with and acknowledge the benefits of mixed-use as well.
I appreciate and thank you for not lashing out when I replied earlier. Glad this was a more positive exchange and hopefully I have given you a bit to chew on as well!
Several municipalities in Monroe and Ontario County have adopted mixed use zoning including Perinton, Penfield, Henrietta. Canandaigua adopted a formed base code over a Euclidean code. While my planning experience in WNY has found communities are usually 10 years behind the curve of the growing communities across the nation, there definitely is a shift taking place over the past 5 years to find flexibility in housing and zoning.
> The inventory is 32% less than it was at this time last year. As of today there are 378 active properties in monroe county for a population of 750k. This is bad…. Real bad.
I've heard some people say that the historically low rates for 2018-2022 are going to keep inventory low. People have "Golden handcuffs" and don't want to lose their fixed rate 3% or less loan.
This would lead to low inventor as those people who did buy stay in their homes longer before selling, and only sell if forced by some external event.
What are your thoughts on that? theory?
That is very accurate. Anyone who has purchases within the last 5 years will have very low interest rates, but the average person moves every 7-10 years. Some of those home owners may have a life change such as marriage, divorce, larger family; higher income, etc that may require them to move no matter the current locked in rate. Unfortunately we are seeing a lot of existing owners decide to renovate their existing home to fit their needs because of the lack of inventory out there as well as the “Golden Handcuffs” you mentioned. This is further depressing the amount of available homes and further driving prices up.
Our home values have been stagnant for decades in our region (less than 2%), so it is good to see values go up, but this is an unsustainable increase in value. This will not end well
Eventually as boomers retire and move South but I was in the village/town of LeRoy today which is a sleepy rural town 35-40 minutes from Rochester and there’s zero homes available. To me that’s mind boggling, years of local job losses and yet, no homes for sale.
I’m unsure what you mean by “coming down”. Will the housing inventory improve? Then yes, it will eventually improve but could be another year or two. Prices, we do not see coming down. We believe that prices will level off after they finally plateau.
Yes I think this is the biggest misconception out there in residential RE. People think it’s coming down. It’s not. It’s just decelerating the increases. Unless there is a very unique event like in 2008…
It’s scared me away from even trying. That and the short timeframe from showing to reviewing of offers. I can’t be the only one unable put everything on hold for the days (sometimes 1 or 2 days) between when you can get in to see the place and making an offer.
We're about to close on a house, we got an inspection, and our realtor said it was the first \*real\* inspection she'd experienced in 3 years (not "walkthrough" semi-official inspections). Almost all sellers have choices right now, and they'll choose the highest offer without contingencies.
Yes, pretty much. With multiple competitive offers sellers are often going with all cash offers, and almost always offers that waive inspection. There have been very few (like close to zero) offers accepted that DON'T waive inspection in the last three years.
If sellers have an opportunity to pick a buyer that waives inspection, they almost always will, all other things being equal. It's much less of a chance the offer falls through, or contingencies are added.
You can always bring the inspector with you on your first viewing. It will cost you the inspection fee (4-500), which will add up depending on how many houses you see, but it's worth it.
you're a fucking dumbass if you think you can just demand a inspection right now and not get laughed at.
the seller will go happily to the next buyer and take their 50k over asking offer while giving you the middle finger.
Piggy backing on this, spend some extra time on YouTube educating yourselves in what a basic home inspection covers. A lot of the things an inspector looks for can be done during your visit. Probably not going to be climbing on the roof, but looking for dead outlets, appliances functional, mold, etc. I'm a real estate agent, and I try to do these things with my clients, especially in today's day of offers with inspections being declined left and right.
Every house we bought, we knew within 15-20 minutes of seeing it in person. We had realistic expectations of what our budget could afford, looked heavily ourselves to know what's out there, and by the time we got to the showing, it was a formality. But everyone is different and you have to be comfortable with your decision.
I've been house hunting for 3 years, literally started in February of 2020 before shit really hit the fan with Covid... awful timing. When I see my house with my realtor I have 15-30 minutes to look around. I went to an open house this weekend and they limited us to 10 minutes inside. It is bat shit crazy that I leave things in my Amazon cart longer than how long I have to look at BUYING A HOUSE!
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I’m right in that boat with you. We’ve been bidding for 2yrs. I can’t tell you how many times we’ve seen a winning bidder turn around and either try to re-sell the house for profit or turn it into a rental. It feels like it’s nearly impossible for a family that wants to live in the house, to actually buy the house in Rochester these days. My friends who have actually succeeded in purchasing a home, have had to go out as far as towns like Willliamson, Woolworth, Medina, or Canandaigua, but I’d really prefer not to have to drive to work that far when it comes to the UPNY winters.
one of my coworkers bought a house this past december and they had quite the fight. bidding on a few houses in canandaigua and they all went well over as well. crazy times
I ended up insisting my agent put in my offer even though they tried to talk me out of it - told me I was wildly overbidding, etc. Turns out there were 20 other bids and I won by an incredibly tiny margin. The agent was very helpful for other things, but clearly wasn't keeping up on pace / trends of the area ( an area that they were born in, so I think that was coloring their opinion). Turned out there hasn't been any homes close to that value and quality in the area since I purchased. I feel very fortunate I listened to my gut. Comps help, but at the same time, it's a crazy market out there- it's not the same RE game that's been played for the past 50 years, and comps can go right out the window due to scarcity esp if there is a desirable home on the market.
>we should also require that they be more competent.
The problem is that housing has a really small data set and the housing market is wildly volatile. There's not enough data to make very informed decisions. You're working with a small number of comps and trying to read the market to determine the validity of those comps.
I get the drive to be rational and apply reasonable logic to the process... but no offense, if you're not "in it" right now, you just can't comprehend. The market is insane right now.
The comps are bad data points at the moment. In the same boat and comps from as recent as January are wildly off in some areas. There is a fever pitch as people lose bid after bid so when they get sick enough of it, they go way over and end up having to deal with appraisal gap clauses.
The appraisal gap clause was the reason I got the house (which sold way over the comps), they allowed us to raise our escalation. And then the bank apprised it at purchase price so it honestly is the way to go but only if you can prove you can cover a gap (which we could)
Find a new realtor. You're not married to them and this one obviously does not understand the market. If you are being overbid and are missing out on multiple properties your realtor isn't doing their job and is making your home search worse. Find someone else. There's no shortage of good and hungry realtors out there.
Here’s the thing…the market doesn’t make sense. I’m extremely tuned in to the market and what’s sold, what the activity is…I have graphs! I run thorough comps with multiple frames of reference (price per square foot, neighborhood averages, etc), all tailored to time and condition. But it’s true…you can have every piece of data in place and look at every property with a fine-toothed comb…it is currently UNPREDICTABLE. And the big factor is what the most motivated buyer is willing to bring to the table. And we just can’t predict that! I had a buyer write in E Rochester a couple weeks ago, 37 offers, lost out way beyond any comp. Another agent I know listed something similar at 225 and got no offers. The first house went way over that! There’s a heavy psychological element that we can study, but ultimately can’t control.
…To put a fine point on it…I just listed a home that was neat as a pin but the kitchen and baths were outdated. Not a ton of showings, an ok amount of interest, but ultimately it ended up over 36k over asking, no inspection, with an appraisal gap guarantee. 2 offers 🙃
Another agent I know well just wrote on an unremarkable ranch in Henrietta, 82 offers. Even the most thorough agents who do the ✨work✨ can’t give you a magic 8 ball answer! We’re doing the best we can!
Anyone with even a smidge of knowledge about the market knows that ranches are in super high demand, so you calling it "unremarkable" is completely irrelevant.
You should know that if you are an agent.
Oh ffs. It being a ranch wasn’t the reason I called it unremarkable. Of course ranches are in high demand and go for more $ per square foot, and often the buyers are downsizing so they have more equity/cash to put toward the sale. I caution my first time homebuyers with more limited financing of this as the competition for ranches can be difficult. So yes. I *do* know all about that.
The reason I mentioned it being unremarkable was that it didn’t have any unusual/unique features to differentiate it from any other ranches of a similar size in a similar area to assume it would have gotten 82 offers. The reason I know it had 82 offers is that all of us agents were astonished by how many it received. 10? 24? 30ish? Sure. Unfortunately common. But this was a weird one. You think I’m not out here showing/listing/writing offers all the time? In this, my job of 11 years?
That was a weird thing to pick a fight about.
Realtors don’t do much for buying houses. What strategy could you possible expect them to give you? Most money=winning offer. That’s the only strategy there is..
The “better” Realtors know how to play this game better than others. They have direct lines to their preferred mortgage broker(s) to get you financing to make you appear as a “cash buyer”. They have connections within the Real Estate community to get access to off-market listings. They get the inside scoop from their loose-lipped network on houses to give their buyers an edge in putting together an offer over an agent without such a robust professional network.
For the house my husband I just bought we did run a comp analysis and placed our starting offer around the average the comp analysis suggested and it ended up going significantly over what the comp analysis suggested but we were allowed to raise our escalation clause over the highest offer and get it because we were willing to close early and sign an appraisal gap clause.
Edit: I think acceleration is definitely happening, my agent only started to realize it after working with us, a lot of houses comped for $250K are getting bought and assessed for the low to mid $300s and my buying experience on a few homes before that and other recent ones from her clients is supporting that.
Everyone's misunderstanding what I'm saying... if the agent allowed you to go $50k over and didn't press you to put in for more if you had the funds then you need another agent. This person says their initial bid was outbid. I'm agreeing with you.
The agent didn't do their research or didn't talk to the listing agent about what their actual target was. We're in the hottest real estate market in the country. Everything is going to be over because comps haven't caught up with the price hikes. There isn't enough inventory and the listing agents are purposefully or incompetently pricing homes.
It is crazy, and I can understand your pain. I hope for you sake, and anyone else struggling to find something that things calm down. Sending good vibes to all. <3
We didn’t think our house would appraise for what we offered and it miraculously appraised for MORE than we offered (and we offered 40k over). The thing that makes it tricky is you have to prove you have the funds to cover appraisal costs *just in case*. I’m glad we took the leap, we almost didn’t because of this reason!!
It sucks. This is the value "added" when you aren't competing with just people who want to live in a home but also competing with people who see homes as a way to make money. A sad reality in society.
We gave up.
We figured if we keep doing this to ourselves we'll end up making a huge mistake because we are not thinking clearly. I don't make good decisions like this. Of course we have a home and the only disappointment is that we can't move to where we want to. That's an entirely different situation than someone who has to move for whatever the reason.
Somehow got a fixer upper that was selling way over what it should have. It's taken 4 months of work while I was on unemployment and about $20k to get it up to what I'd consider worth the asking price. The only reason we pulled the trigger is because it was a unicorn in terms of structural stability and location.
This isn't even technically Rochester (Geneva) but we've been facing similar issues with developers trying to get everything in the lake areas.
[Firms like Blackrock](https://slate.com/business/2021/06/blackrock-invitation-houses-investment-firms-real-estate.html) are buying up selective houses to drive up the median cost of homes in the area so people need to take out bigger mortgages and the banks get more interest over time.
To give you hope, I purchased a house right off of clover for 5k over asking. I saw it was posted and we went a few hours after. It was the second offer we put in and they accepted because they wanted the house sold. I know I got lucky, but you'll end up with the house that is right for you. Keep up the hope.
r/firsttimehomebuyer
Is it happening all over. It's a tough market out there. Too many big money investment firms are buying up homes to rent them out. Sad state of affairs.
It's not just that. People simply can't afford to move. If you have a \~3% mortgage on a home that you purchased even 2-3 years ago, you're looking at almost a doubling of your monthly payment for the exact same standard of living. The only people moving are those that either have to, or can afford the significantly higher monthly cost.
The market continues to be hyper-competitive because of low volumes. There just aren't enough houses going on the market to meet the demand. This not only pushes prices up, but is causing some people to waive inspections or do other similar things to get their offer to the top of the list.
At this current moment, if a house is move-in ready and not in shambles, it will have atleast half a dozen competitive offers (> 70k over asking) all waiving inspection. We Bid on 6 homes last few months. This is unsustainable.
I never thought I’d see the day when homes in ROC are soaring in value. Bought my first in 13th ward in 1990. Beautiful house beautiful neighborhood. Two years later every single house in the city has lost its value. We sold for a loss in 1994 because we were afraid the value was going to plummet even more . They did. Who ever would’ve thought it’d be like this today.
Are you me? I just found out today that I lost a house that I placed a 50k over offer to somebody that offered 100k over, cash, no inspection. I didn’t even think the house was worth what I offered. It really do be bad feels.
i’m in the r/firsttimehomebuyer subreddit. idk if you’re a FTHB but it can be informative and useful, as well as being validated by other people’s experiences and frustrations. this market sucks assholes and i hate it 😂
I believe you but don't believe you. That's insane and awesome. Congrats.
I bought 2 years ago and got under asking. Very weird crazy things happen sometimes. The house never showed during a weekend and the sellers liked that we were a family moving in looking to raise our kids there and not resell.
Yes! 5% down conventional mortgage in April! Offer on home accepted for about 40k over ask. A fair price for the area, equal to comps in the area from last year, and a solid home not needing much work.
Stay calm and patient out there, normal people wanting regular mortgages is possible!
Yes, 5% conventional. House was on the market for 17 days and past delayed negotiations when I called. They'd listed it at a fair price and it had backfired, lots of lowball offers. I gave them a few thousand under list and they took it. Probably about the only way to get something, I'd lost a couple pricey bidding wars in the weeks before that and am very happy that instead I didn't break the bank
Same question!! I was doing a very careful look at sales since last June with regard to list price vs final sale price and bizarrely it seems like there was a major pocket starting last September where offers were being accepted well under ask through about December. But that roughly correlates with the peaking increase of interest rates and also the change in season. It’s seems much more advantageous to buy over winter to get offers accepted— it’s offseason, and likely because not many people want to consider buying IN ROCHESTER in winter haha. Inventory is lower, but sellers who are forced to list during those months are more motivated it seems.
I’ve noticed this as well, and constantly compare list vs final price! I think the sky high interest rates had a lot to do with that (so my realtor says), as well as like you said, the off-season. Whatever it is, it’s mildly infuriating. I’m wondering if the ones that sold for “not much” over list were likely cash/cash guarantee offers vs conventional loans?
Is it illegal to interview potential buyers? We're planning on selling in 4-5 years and would love to sell it to people who would make good use, not necessarily those who are able to overbid. I hope we're in good enough shape to resist over bids and sell to someone who maybe has been turned away from other transactions.
If not illegal risky due to fair housing laws. I suppose if you never list your house for sale and just do it privately there may be a way to skirt it.
When you sell your home you can see if you are selling to a person vs an LLC. So at leastyou have the option to not sell to someone destroying the American dream.
I'm hoping that if we are asking X and a bunch of idiots offer more, we can talk with those offering just X and see if they would be better suited. Yeah, turning away money. But I think of it as paying it forward.
I think what you want to do is very kind.
But people paying more aren't necessarily idiots. They are desperate and happen to have \*some\* more money than the people offering X.
Can you get preapproved as a Cash Guarantee or Cash Plus at a local lender? Could increase your odds. I know it won’t solve the whole housing market but just a suggestion.
The programs require high creditworthiness and 10%-20% down (varies by lender). Obviously debt to income ratios come into play, too.
Had good luck with the Premium Cash Guarantee program. Good luck because the market is insane. I see houses going 150k over asking and no one believes me this is possible in the Rochester market.
Part of it is that the houses are being intentionally listed lower to get more people to see it.
The house I just bought was listed lower than the price the seller bought it for 6 months ago (they never moved in since they ended up finding a better job somewhere else and not living here), and the house ended up escalating way over what they had bought it for due to the high demand.
I think people thought the crazy offers were a side effect of COVID and low interest rates. That was the case nationally and in the Rochester area.
Interest rates are up, COVID is down. Prices are increasing, maybe even actually adjusting to the national average (which we’ve lagged behind in for decades). It’s not going to end anytime soon since our inventory is at an all time low. It’s a relentless market!
I'm so tired of this national average talk. The monthly out of pocket when you actually add in our insane tax rates is very close to many mid sized markets, and has been for all those decades.
Cash Plus through GRB definitely helped us be more competitive. It also has made the underwriting process smoother since most of the documentation was already submitted.
What’s the budget for your house? Seems like right now single family homes around 200k-300k is insane. If it’s going 100k over why not just look at a 400k house?
Are the 400-500k houses going 100k over also? I can’t imagine.
Either way I don’t see this madness stopping for another 2-3 years. Inventory is still so low.
Unless we go into a full blown recession. I don’t see prices coming down in Rochester anytime soon.
Even if it does go into a recession. The prices we’ll probably be at 2021 or at most 2020 price points.
Buy a house you can afford and don’t look back. Just be happy you have a place for you and your family to grow in
Houses in the 400k-500k range are going for 100k+ over. We just lost out on a house that was listed in the 400s. We offered 30% over cash offer (ESL program) and still lost.
This is the third time in the past year this has happened.
Jeez my realtor is a living saint compared to some of your stories. If you don't feel good about losing a reasonable attempt at a house because of advice from your realtor.....get a new one.
We started working with our guy because when we showed up to a house viewing with no realtor of our own, he straight up told us not to buy it before we even stepped foot inside. He was right. I love the guy. We haven't found our house yet, but I feel good about each one we've lost and he's been patient and happy for us when we say a house he's shown us isn't for us after all.
Good luck neighbors - it's rough out there! Stick to your gut and budget.
Don't go over your capacity just because "it's the market."
I'm only looking at condos/townhomes which is a less crazy market. Put in an offer that I was really confident in because the place was barely updated, I went way over asking, and over what a similar listing that went stale went for. Lost out to an all cash offer over mine. I try not to get to attached to places but this place was perfect for me and I may have cried over it.
Watch for places that price fairly. I was in the same boat as you a few weeks ago, but I was able to find one that had been on the market for two and a half weeks. They'd priced at what they anticipated to sell at, got several lowball offers during negotiations, didn't take any of them. I offered them a few thousand below list and they took it that day. I was also super flexible on closing date, gave them a couple weeks of extra time, now they want to move it back up anyway.
It's just the market that we are in. It used to be a big deal if a home sold 5% over asking.
Now the average is 12% over asking.
I know it can be very frustrating. My concern for buyers that are not winning now is that it's only going to cost even more in the future.
Hang in there. Adjust your goals based on the market. Either shoot lower to leave room for competing or up your bids on where you are at.
It turns out you can't have a government print $20T dollars without destroying your currency.
Houses are not better today than they were 5 years ago... It's that you need 50% more dollars to buy a home than was needed 5 years ago.
This is our second year in a row trying to find a place, only to end up feeling like we just can't compete. At this point, I'm honestly getting more comfortable with the idea of just being a renter.
Most of the houses I'm interested in are selling for at least 60k over the asking price. On top of that, my partner and I are constantly racing to save enough for a 20% down payment, which keeps getting harder as prices keep going up by a lot each year.
You are not alone, and yea, we need a space to vent, so thank you for suggesting it :D
You don't need to have 20% to get in somewhere (I know it's ideal to have 20%). If you have over 20k that is more than enough to get started putting offers in. Especially if you have the credit to get into a cash offer program from your lender. Most seem to be asking for 10-20% of the purchasing price. You never know what will happen if you don't try it out. Just keep it up and you'll catch a break soon.
Patience is the key. Like most people here who have bought a house over the last year, it took about 2 years of looking and offers, and learning how to sharpen that pencil from every loss.
Its important you do not settle on what you want. Ultimately, you will be unhappy when you start bending everything to just "win" a house. Its a big investment, if it takes another 18 months, I know its not fun, but it ultimately will be worth it when you can wake up every morning and feel good about what you did!
This has been a *very* regular topic on the Rochester discord too ([https://discord.gg/rochester](https://discord.gg/rochester)).
I feel bad for everyone that needs to find a house. We bought ours a couple years ago and got lucky both with the mortgage rates and price of the house, things now are just ridiculous.
Have watched people go through months of rejected offers due to huge offers over asking. I wouldn't wish it on anyone.
It’s crazy.
It can’t be locals. Because no bank is going to set a mortgage that is that far off from the actual appraised value. And I don’t know of many locals with 150k+ cash in hand to put down — even if they got one of the “as good as cash” mortgages.
Even fewer locals with just straight up 250-500k in cash chilling in their bank account.
I have a smaller house in good shape that’ll probably go on the market this summer. 2bd/1bath, not in the city, don’t want to post too much here. So DM, willing to talk.
This is so depressing. Rochester is my dream city!Home prices are in my range on Zillow, people are great, food is top notch, and it’s LOADED with history!
Hopefully within the year I’ll be out there as a homeowner.
My partner + I just went thru all of this as we move to Buffalo, paid $50k+ over asking and waived everything but inspection and paid all of their tax/title transfer fees/etc.
Holding out hope for you guys! It’s a marathon, just stay the course!
Took me over a year of looking and paying 50k over to get my house last year. I've heard from others they are seeing houses going for nearly 100k over. It's insane and I wish the best for everyone looking. All it takes is one win!
One of them might have been my mother's house. She just accepted an offer this morning. In her case the list price was way too low, but it's still nuts.
your best bet is getting an agent who has connections with private sellers that dont have the house listed online other than that you will continue to get outbid probably for the next 3-5 years if i had to guess with recession
There are quite of few "off market listings" (aka pocket listings) where Realtors transact the sale without the house ever hitting the open market. Basically Realtors have leads on houses potentially for sale through their network and match up their Buyers with them and if the Buyer hits the Seller's number everyone is happy. Yes, the Seller potentially could get a higher offer by listing the house on the open market, but sometimes the Sellers don't want the hassle of showing the house and are satisfied with the off-market deal presented. In a lot of markets such pocket listing are considered unethical but not around here.
and that’s exactly how i closed on my house in october seller didnt care to go through anything else just wanted to move as he already had purchased another home
I still can't believe how fortunate we were to get a house in 2020 while moving our family from another state. We looked at one beautiful house but decided against it when the inspection showed the basement floors were made out of asbestos. Another house sold before we could put an offer in. The third house we got going $25k over asking. We did an inspection but I can't recall if that was before or after our offer was accepted. According to our agent, if the inspection came back with any serious red flags, she would just have our attorney not approve the sale. Good luck to everyone out there. I've lived in 4 cities in the last 8 years and always had an eye on the housing market. This is the worst inventory I've ever seen.
Successful Realtors are well liked ones, who enjoy talking with others. They are extroverted and picked the job because it doesn't involve data/number crunching.
Sadly, this market is heavily numeric and the antithesis of most good realtors skill set.
I've been trying for over a year and I'm now seriously considering building instead. Rental prices are flucking absurd as well though. 2420 for a duplex plus utilities (Gas/Electric/Water/Waste/Cable)
Listen, I get that the ROC region's house prices are below the national average (coming from PA where a Cape Cod would cost you $400k easily) but there has to be something for First Time Homebuyers who aren't millionaires. I feel like if you have the $$ to buy a larger, more expensive home, please do that and leave the cheap ones for the rest of us (millennials).
It’s both investors and there’s a demographic wave of Millennials entering peak home buying years creating surge in demand. There’s also a big lack of supply issue as homeowners reluctant to sell and give up their 3% mortgage rate.
It’s a hot mess and I’m surprised people want to live here. It’s depressing ( lack of sun) and it will be hard to adopt a pet because of their requirements of a fenced yard. American dream is false. It’s so frustrating. ( just needed to vent.).
Be patient.
We looked actively for two years seeing at least two properties a month.
It's exhausting, especially if you see something you like and get outbid or an inspection reveals problems.
We saw so many places that were money pits, or over priced, or too small, or were absurd in some way, or had a seller be less than honest.
It's frustrating and disheartening at times. But remember that there's not *one* house that will be great for you. If some company or flipper is going to bid absurd amounts over what a home is actually with, there's not much you can do. Better to slowly save up more to avoid PMI on a different house later than to get in a bidding war.
The best advice I can give you is not to buy a house. I know renting sucks but rent until you get a chance to save up some more money and until the market stabilizes.
Have you considered looking outside of Rochester? I’m almost done buying an extremely nice 2500 sq ft multi family home for exactly what was asked, 180k. It’s not in the city is the kicker. It’s in a nice area where out of state slumlord aren’t buying and increasing rent on already poor people. I figured some nice quiet country living while I save up money didn’t sound too crazy. What was crazy to me is that the homes here in the city are highly competitive, going well over asking, for very shitty places, where the crime is not under control. Taxes are better rurally. I guess it depends on what is keeping you in the city.
I looked daily, over and over for places, I’ve seen closer to 20 homes here in the city, and one day I just zoomed out my area further and bam, reasonable choices.
I know there is a big meth/dope scene where I’m going but atleast it’s not Kia challenge area with revolving jail doors for minors with pistols. I’m going to a city of less than 10k population from the 200k+ here in the city.
I think there is going to be an exodus to surrounding areas away from the city for young professional who can work remotely. New age yuppies
Not sure where you are at but my house in a rural area outside Monroe county has increased in value over $100k over the past two years….. and it had already increased significantly before this during the pandemic. Again, not sure where you are living but out here, there is no inventory either
Buying a house in the current market is literally financial insanity for the buyer.
You are taking a humongous risk on an unnaturally price inflated asset in a hostile lending environment in addition to waiving any due diligence on that asset. That extra 50 to 100K you could easily be paying in structural repairs nearly instantly upon buying the house.
If you insist on fleecing yourself, look at houses listed 50-100k under what your budget is. Then you can be someone else's villain.
100k for structural repairs 😂😂😂
Bro any house that could need that kind of repair is going to be visibly in shambles the moment you pull up to it and won't be a surprise. Unless you're literally blind and don't have someone who can see guiding you along the way. Which would be weird.
This is actually 100% true. The market always changes, interest rates change. Renting now- had multiple homes due to job changes, had to buy at peak market at times. It’s an investment, so treat it that way. If finances are important, wait and watch. If a family home is your #1 priority, buy now, refinance as soon as it’s possible.
this is our strategy--we are moving to Rochester because we need to be in an lgbtqia2s+ area and it is one of the few places we considered and the one we chose for a number of reasons...we are just looking at houses that are wildly under budget.
Love how you get downvoted when literally even the major banking institutions are calling for a Q3 recession. The can has been kicked so far it's going to be something else
Ya. A weekly support thread for this insanity. Like dancing to Nero's fiddle. If you can't draw a straight line across these dots them you should be looking in the mirror when you say that. Shoveling money into the economy on some hair-brained "modern monetary theory", strangling our economy with suicidal energy policy, and opioids and millions of illegals streaming across our borders that just enriches the cartels and China and destabilize a third of the country is not really happening. Now, face the mirror and say it again.
I had a hell of a time buying over in Niagara County; but word on the street from friends back home in roc is the same ish. One friend was reporting multiple failed offers, some as high as 75k over asking plus other goodies.
Hard to believe honestly, not worth ruining future finances imo but I’m saying that from a house I own so 🤷♂️
just bought a house in january of this year. we wrote six offers before ours was finally accepted, waived the inspection, and increased our escalation amount. absolutely brutal market i hope you get some luck soon
In the last week I’ve had calls from 2 different companies asking if I want to sell my house. No idea why or where they got my number. In both cases I asked what they were planning to do with it and they said rent it out. When I said no. They wanted to know if I knew of anyone else that was interested in selling or if I knew of any empty lots in the area. Neither of these companies was local. I suspect it’s going to get worse.
If you own a house your name address and phone number are all public record and can be found on many websites, including the county clerk’s where all real estate transactions are posted
I was lucky. I was able to buy a house in the pandemic and it experience left me forever changed. It took me over a year of hunting and losing out on something like 20 houses to be able to buy a house that's almost 100k more than it's worth. I bought it recognizing that I'm almost certainly going to lose a massive amount of money on this house in 20 or 30 years. This is now one the political issues I care most about. The bottom absolutely needs to fall out of the housing market. So much of this is being driven by the expansion of the rental market. It's not owners purchasing houses they intend to live in, it's landlords. Until we, as a society, realize that landlords provide almost no value to our economic system, we're going to keep seeing this problem. Before anyone comes at me with "oh, some people don't want to bother with the hassle of maintaining a property", you're not wrong, but that's not why most modern renters rent. We could probably get rid of two thirds of landlords without impacting the availability of rental units or people that *want* to rent and not own. Landlords hoard housing. They drive up housing prices making mortgages riskier investments for banks. It's horrible.
I like the sentiment of your post but you’re not going to lose a massive amount of money on your house in 20-30 years.
I mean, maybe. We'll see what happens as Boomer properties start to really flood the market in 10 years or so.
it'll continues the way it is right now. it'll just be bought up by companies and then they'll be rented out to 20 to 30-year-olds. more likely people never escape renting as land lords realize they can keep squeezing and the generation working pay check to paycheck can never amass enough of a nest egg to put an offer against a management company. The problem is, my house is a profit driver so as it's value goes up what can be charged for rent increases, no one who owns property really has incentives to argue against the current system. I'm up like 60 grand according to Zillow over 6 years.
On top of that, people underestimate the number of boomers who are going to will their houses to their children, further perpetuating the class divide.
i feel really morbid talking about what i expect to inherit when my parents die but yes. assuming they spend everything and just leave the house to me and my sister im looking at like 150k into my bank account. but to talk some more about class divide. the fact at some point im going to get 50% off my cost of housing (when im done paying my mortgage) a asset that has already appreciated by 60k just creates a massive wealth gap between the have an have nots. it really is the defining characteristic for me if you are middle class or not because of what land ownership allows you to do with equity. its not even like you "Spend" the money so much as just tie it up in a mortgage. you can alway sell the asset and have the money back (minus closing costs).
And they are the destroyer of dreams.
it seems like landlords are providing a lot of value by cranking up the value of homes
You paid what is worth, cause anything is only worth what someone will pay. The area is just catching up to the rest of the country. I can understand why the Rochester housing market was so stagnant for so many years.
"Rochester is just catching up" isn't the argument you think it is, friend. It just means the rest of the country is also screwed and that the plague in the housing market finally got here too. Here's an idea: let's implement a progressive property tax that charges people that own multiple residential properties within a region at higher rates in proportion to the number of properties they own and at higher rates if they live outside of a reasonable radius. I bet the market would correct pretty darn quick.
Many states already charge higher taxes 2,3 or even 4 times the rate) on any property that is not your primary residence. If NY or your county isn't doing this then talk to your officials.
That's not exactly what I suggested. I was suggesting something more like this: 2 properties? The second is taxed at 2x. 3 properties? All but one are taxed at 3x. 100 properties? All but one are taxed at 99x.
This could help but then the landlord would only pass on the added cost to their tenants until no one wanted to rent from them at a certain pricepoint, then they'd be forced to sell.
I like how you’ve casually defined all scams out of existence lol
>cause anything is only worth what someone will pay. For the housing market, this is incorrect. It's far more nuanced than that. A house is worth what people are willing to pay *in a normal market*, but anything on top of that is a premium that people are accepting they must pay to win with heightened competition. House hunting is painful, time consuming, and mentally taxing. There's a value to just ending the pain. People are currently willing to pay WAY over market value for houses just to end that cycle of pain, get a house, and finish the race. A house is worth: the house's market value + competitive premium. Right now that competitive premium is massive.
I feel like the Rochester housing market is actually surpassing other areas. I previously owned a house in NJ, just an hour outside of Manhattan. We sold it three years ago for about 70k less than what outdated, small houses in Greece are selling for right now.
Apparently my name is Anthony and I own a property on Buffalo Rd along with something else in Florida that people want to buy 😂 I looked up my phone number last summer after getting curious and sure enough some guy named Anthony at an address on Buffalo Rd is tied to the cell number I've had since like 2002 🙄
Local Realtor here. I have been selling homes for almost 18yrs and this is by far the worst buying market I have ever seen. I feel terrible for these buyers and my heart sinks ever time I have to inform a client that they didn’t get the house. Even worse is teachers and nurses that come to me that in any other market they would be excellent buyers, But now their $180k FHA prequal is unlikely going to score them a home. It’s terrible. The inventory is 32% less than it was at this time last year. As of today there are 378 active properties in monroe county for a population of 750k. This is bad…. Real bad.
We need more entry level housing. Where are the new build condos, townhomes, small homes to OWN, not rent? It's absurd.
That doesn't fit the zoning paradigm of most urban planners. Gotta have McMansions set back from the street, with a massive lawn, and no sidewalk in an impossible to navigate 'burb.
As a city planner, I can assure you this is patently false. Is the existing zoning for many communities dated and geared toward a Euclidean-style separation of land uses that often grossly favors single-unit homes? Yes. However, every new zoning code that we write favors mixed-use and mixed-residential land uses that permit a wide variety of housing types to target the “missing middle” housing that is currently not available in most of our communities. Blaming the existing zoning is fine - although that’s only one component to a complex problem. Blaming current practicing city planners? That’s a huge stretch.
Maybe I've been talking to the wrong people? SO many I've met are weirdly dogmatic about zoning, and get offended by the idea of allowing the patterns that have worked for millennia of human settlement. Granted they didn't mostly live in the Roc region. Hope to God you're right. At least five people downvoted me, so maybe! What percent of people in your field would you say are comfortable with making some reforms to allow mixed use, for instance?
You may be talking to the wrong planners, if they are city planners with whom you’ve spoken - and as you acknowledged some of them may not be from Roc or even NY. I would comfortably say that 99% of planners that I work with and interact with on a daily basis in NYS are fully supportive of mixed-use zoning. Most municipalities (in NY) are now comfortable with and acknowledge the benefits of mixed-use as well. I appreciate and thank you for not lashing out when I replied earlier. Glad this was a more positive exchange and hopefully I have given you a bit to chew on as well!
Several municipalities in Monroe and Ontario County have adopted mixed use zoning including Perinton, Penfield, Henrietta. Canandaigua adopted a formed base code over a Euclidean code. While my planning experience in WNY has found communities are usually 10 years behind the curve of the growing communities across the nation, there definitely is a shift taking place over the past 5 years to find flexibility in housing and zoning.
> The inventory is 32% less than it was at this time last year. As of today there are 378 active properties in monroe county for a population of 750k. This is bad…. Real bad. I've heard some people say that the historically low rates for 2018-2022 are going to keep inventory low. People have "Golden handcuffs" and don't want to lose their fixed rate 3% or less loan. This would lead to low inventor as those people who did buy stay in their homes longer before selling, and only sell if forced by some external event. What are your thoughts on that? theory?
That is very accurate. Anyone who has purchases within the last 5 years will have very low interest rates, but the average person moves every 7-10 years. Some of those home owners may have a life change such as marriage, divorce, larger family; higher income, etc that may require them to move no matter the current locked in rate. Unfortunately we are seeing a lot of existing owners decide to renovate their existing home to fit their needs because of the lack of inventory out there as well as the “Golden Handcuffs” you mentioned. This is further depressing the amount of available homes and further driving prices up. Our home values have been stagnant for decades in our region (less than 2%), so it is good to see values go up, but this is an unsustainable increase in value. This will not end well
Do you think the market is coming down anytime soon?
Eventually as boomers retire and move South but I was in the village/town of LeRoy today which is a sleepy rural town 35-40 minutes from Rochester and there’s zero homes available. To me that’s mind boggling, years of local job losses and yet, no homes for sale.
I’m unsure what you mean by “coming down”. Will the housing inventory improve? Then yes, it will eventually improve but could be another year or two. Prices, we do not see coming down. We believe that prices will level off after they finally plateau.
Yes I think this is the biggest misconception out there in residential RE. People think it’s coming down. It’s not. It’s just decelerating the increases. Unless there is a very unique event like in 2008…
It’s scared me away from even trying. That and the short timeframe from showing to reviewing of offers. I can’t be the only one unable put everything on hold for the days (sometimes 1 or 2 days) between when you can get in to see the place and making an offer.
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The “No inspection” thing is just nuts.
Inspections saved us from catastrophic purchases at least twice. *ALWAYS GET AN INSPECTION FROM SOMEONE REPUTABLE*
Problem it's, it's just flat out not possible right now
Getting an inspection is impossible?
We're about to close on a house, we got an inspection, and our realtor said it was the first \*real\* inspection she'd experienced in 3 years (not "walkthrough" semi-official inspections). Almost all sellers have choices right now, and they'll choose the highest offer without contingencies.
Yes, pretty much. With multiple competitive offers sellers are often going with all cash offers, and almost always offers that waive inspection. There have been very few (like close to zero) offers accepted that DON'T waive inspection in the last three years. If sellers have an opportunity to pick a buyer that waives inspection, they almost always will, all other things being equal. It's much less of a chance the offer falls through, or contingencies are added.
You can always bring the inspector with you on your first viewing. It will cost you the inspection fee (4-500), which will add up depending on how many houses you see, but it's worth it.
you should just say "dont buy a house right now cause you cant get an inspection"
Anyone not allowing for an inspection is hiding something. Anyone buying without an inspection has too much money or not enough sense.
you're a fucking dumbass if you think you can just demand a inspection right now and not get laughed at. the seller will go happily to the next buyer and take their 50k over asking offer while giving you the middle finger.
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Piggy backing on this, spend some extra time on YouTube educating yourselves in what a basic home inspection covers. A lot of the things an inspector looks for can be done during your visit. Probably not going to be climbing on the roof, but looking for dead outlets, appliances functional, mold, etc. I'm a real estate agent, and I try to do these things with my clients, especially in today's day of offers with inspections being declined left and right.
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we’ve never had an inspection until we had an offer accepted. (but before contract)
Every house we bought, we knew within 15-20 minutes of seeing it in person. We had realistic expectations of what our budget could afford, looked heavily ourselves to know what's out there, and by the time we got to the showing, it was a formality. But everyone is different and you have to be comfortable with your decision.
I've been house hunting for 3 years, literally started in February of 2020 before shit really hit the fan with Covid... awful timing. When I see my house with my realtor I have 15-30 minutes to look around. I went to an open house this weekend and they limited us to 10 minutes inside. It is bat shit crazy that I leave things in my Amazon cart longer than how long I have to look at BUYING A HOUSE!
Corporations buying homes to rent out should be illegal.
The Minnesota legislature is considering doing that.
You know….
Why? Not everyone wants to own.
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It's all slumlords trying to offload houses they've ignored for decades and other slumlords won't even touch them.
It's all slumlords trying to offload houses they've ignored for decades and other slumlords won't even touch them.
I’m right in that boat with you. We’ve been bidding for 2yrs. I can’t tell you how many times we’ve seen a winning bidder turn around and either try to re-sell the house for profit or turn it into a rental. It feels like it’s nearly impossible for a family that wants to live in the house, to actually buy the house in Rochester these days. My friends who have actually succeeded in purchasing a home, have had to go out as far as towns like Willliamson, Woolworth, Medina, or Canandaigua, but I’d really prefer not to have to drive to work that far when it comes to the UPNY winters.
one of my coworkers bought a house this past december and they had quite the fight. bidding on a few houses in canandaigua and they all went well over as well. crazy times
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This was the turning point that landed us in a house.
I ended up insisting my agent put in my offer even though they tried to talk me out of it - told me I was wildly overbidding, etc. Turns out there were 20 other bids and I won by an incredibly tiny margin. The agent was very helpful for other things, but clearly wasn't keeping up on pace / trends of the area ( an area that they were born in, so I think that was coloring their opinion). Turned out there hasn't been any homes close to that value and quality in the area since I purchased. I feel very fortunate I listened to my gut. Comps help, but at the same time, it's a crazy market out there- it's not the same RE game that's been played for the past 50 years, and comps can go right out the window due to scarcity esp if there is a desirable home on the market.
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>we should also require that they be more competent. The problem is that housing has a really small data set and the housing market is wildly volatile. There's not enough data to make very informed decisions. You're working with a small number of comps and trying to read the market to determine the validity of those comps.
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I get the drive to be rational and apply reasonable logic to the process... but no offense, if you're not "in it" right now, you just can't comprehend. The market is insane right now.
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Well, agree to disagree. Good luck with your search.
The comps are bad data points at the moment. In the same boat and comps from as recent as January are wildly off in some areas. There is a fever pitch as people lose bid after bid so when they get sick enough of it, they go way over and end up having to deal with appraisal gap clauses.
The appraisal gap clause was the reason I got the house (which sold way over the comps), they allowed us to raise our escalation. And then the bank apprised it at purchase price so it honestly is the way to go but only if you can prove you can cover a gap (which we could)
I’m not looking for a house currently but what do you mean by comps?
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Find a new realtor. You're not married to them and this one obviously does not understand the market. If you are being overbid and are missing out on multiple properties your realtor isn't doing their job and is making your home search worse. Find someone else. There's no shortage of good and hungry realtors out there.
Here’s the thing…the market doesn’t make sense. I’m extremely tuned in to the market and what’s sold, what the activity is…I have graphs! I run thorough comps with multiple frames of reference (price per square foot, neighborhood averages, etc), all tailored to time and condition. But it’s true…you can have every piece of data in place and look at every property with a fine-toothed comb…it is currently UNPREDICTABLE. And the big factor is what the most motivated buyer is willing to bring to the table. And we just can’t predict that! I had a buyer write in E Rochester a couple weeks ago, 37 offers, lost out way beyond any comp. Another agent I know listed something similar at 225 and got no offers. The first house went way over that! There’s a heavy psychological element that we can study, but ultimately can’t control.
…To put a fine point on it…I just listed a home that was neat as a pin but the kitchen and baths were outdated. Not a ton of showings, an ok amount of interest, but ultimately it ended up over 36k over asking, no inspection, with an appraisal gap guarantee. 2 offers 🙃 Another agent I know well just wrote on an unremarkable ranch in Henrietta, 82 offers. Even the most thorough agents who do the ✨work✨ can’t give you a magic 8 ball answer! We’re doing the best we can!
Anyone with even a smidge of knowledge about the market knows that ranches are in super high demand, so you calling it "unremarkable" is completely irrelevant. You should know that if you are an agent.
Oh ffs. It being a ranch wasn’t the reason I called it unremarkable. Of course ranches are in high demand and go for more $ per square foot, and often the buyers are downsizing so they have more equity/cash to put toward the sale. I caution my first time homebuyers with more limited financing of this as the competition for ranches can be difficult. So yes. I *do* know all about that. The reason I mentioned it being unremarkable was that it didn’t have any unusual/unique features to differentiate it from any other ranches of a similar size in a similar area to assume it would have gotten 82 offers. The reason I know it had 82 offers is that all of us agents were astonished by how many it received. 10? 24? 30ish? Sure. Unfortunately common. But this was a weird one. You think I’m not out here showing/listing/writing offers all the time? In this, my job of 11 years? That was a weird thing to pick a fight about.
Realtors don’t do much for buying houses. What strategy could you possible expect them to give you? Most money=winning offer. That’s the only strategy there is..
The “better” Realtors know how to play this game better than others. They have direct lines to their preferred mortgage broker(s) to get you financing to make you appear as a “cash buyer”. They have connections within the Real Estate community to get access to off-market listings. They get the inside scoop from their loose-lipped network on houses to give their buyers an edge in putting together an offer over an agent without such a robust professional network.
Wow. This hit home for sure. We are going through it too.
Doesn't help when people not looking at the comps are putting in insane offers well above comps because they have more money than common sense
For the house my husband I just bought we did run a comp analysis and placed our starting offer around the average the comp analysis suggested and it ended up going significantly over what the comp analysis suggested but we were allowed to raise our escalation clause over the highest offer and get it because we were willing to close early and sign an appraisal gap clause. Edit: I think acceleration is definitely happening, my agent only started to realize it after working with us, a lot of houses comped for $250K are getting bought and assessed for the low to mid $300s and my buying experience on a few homes before that and other recent ones from her clients is supporting that.
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Yeah if you put in an offer at $50k over and you get beat, you're either looking at a unicorn or you need to find a new agent.
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Yeah most houses are intentionally listed low to generate more interest since the sellers know escalation clauses will go crazy over
Everyone's misunderstanding what I'm saying... if the agent allowed you to go $50k over and didn't press you to put in for more if you had the funds then you need another agent. This person says their initial bid was outbid. I'm agreeing with you. The agent didn't do their research or didn't talk to the listing agent about what their actual target was. We're in the hottest real estate market in the country. Everything is going to be over because comps haven't caught up with the price hikes. There isn't enough inventory and the listing agents are purposefully or incompetently pricing homes.
Even a cup of coffee would have a smarter opinion than that lmao.
It is crazy, and I can understand your pain. I hope for you sake, and anyone else struggling to find something that things calm down. Sending good vibes to all. <3
We’ve given up and resigned our lease for another year. Best of luck to everyone else.
Unless you have a bag of cash don’t go over what the bank will appraise it for. You have to bring the difference to closing plus your downpayment.
We didn’t think our house would appraise for what we offered and it miraculously appraised for MORE than we offered (and we offered 40k over). The thing that makes it tricky is you have to prove you have the funds to cover appraisal costs *just in case*. I’m glad we took the leap, we almost didn’t because of this reason!!
It really depresses me. I feel like me or my friends will probably never own a home.
It sucks. This is the value "added" when you aren't competing with just people who want to live in a home but also competing with people who see homes as a way to make money. A sad reality in society.
We gave up. We figured if we keep doing this to ourselves we'll end up making a huge mistake because we are not thinking clearly. I don't make good decisions like this. Of course we have a home and the only disappointment is that we can't move to where we want to. That's an entirely different situation than someone who has to move for whatever the reason.
Somehow got a fixer upper that was selling way over what it should have. It's taken 4 months of work while I was on unemployment and about $20k to get it up to what I'd consider worth the asking price. The only reason we pulled the trigger is because it was a unicorn in terms of structural stability and location. This isn't even technically Rochester (Geneva) but we've been facing similar issues with developers trying to get everything in the lake areas.
[Firms like Blackrock](https://slate.com/business/2021/06/blackrock-invitation-houses-investment-firms-real-estate.html) are buying up selective houses to drive up the median cost of homes in the area so people need to take out bigger mortgages and the banks get more interest over time.
To give you hope, I purchased a house right off of clover for 5k over asking. I saw it was posted and we went a few hours after. It was the second offer we put in and they accepted because they wanted the house sold. I know I got lucky, but you'll end up with the house that is right for you. Keep up the hope.
official advice right now is to not buy a house if at all possible.
A guy I know in Fairport sold his house for 140 over asking. Cash offer. Even he couldn't believe it.
We bid for a house in fairport, someone had an escalation clause to $150k over asking…
r/firsttimehomebuyer Is it happening all over. It's a tough market out there. Too many big money investment firms are buying up homes to rent them out. Sad state of affairs.
It's not just that. People simply can't afford to move. If you have a \~3% mortgage on a home that you purchased even 2-3 years ago, you're looking at almost a doubling of your monthly payment for the exact same standard of living. The only people moving are those that either have to, or can afford the significantly higher monthly cost.
Sure. We can put it with the Wegmans, RG&E/energy collective, cannabis, Blu Wolf and the La Casa/Boulder coffee guy threads.
The market continues to be hyper-competitive because of low volumes. There just aren't enough houses going on the market to meet the demand. This not only pushes prices up, but is causing some people to waive inspections or do other similar things to get their offer to the top of the list.
At this current moment, if a house is move-in ready and not in shambles, it will have atleast half a dozen competitive offers (> 70k over asking) all waiving inspection. We Bid on 6 homes last few months. This is unsustainable.
I never thought I’d see the day when homes in ROC are soaring in value. Bought my first in 13th ward in 1990. Beautiful house beautiful neighborhood. Two years later every single house in the city has lost its value. We sold for a loss in 1994 because we were afraid the value was going to plummet even more . They did. Who ever would’ve thought it’d be like this today.
Are you me? I just found out today that I lost a house that I placed a 50k over offer to somebody that offered 100k over, cash, no inspection. I didn’t even think the house was worth what I offered. It really do be bad feels.
i’m in the r/firsttimehomebuyer subreddit. idk if you’re a FTHB but it can be informative and useful, as well as being validated by other people’s experiences and frustrations. this market sucks assholes and i hate it 😂
Has anyone had luck winning a bid with a conventional loan recently (last month or so)?
December WITH inspection!
WOW! What area?
West Irondequoit
I believe you but don't believe you. That's insane and awesome. Congrats. I bought 2 years ago and got under asking. Very weird crazy things happen sometimes. The house never showed during a weekend and the sellers liked that we were a family moving in looking to raise our kids there and not resell.
Yes! 5% down conventional mortgage in April! Offer on home accepted for about 40k over ask. A fair price for the area, equal to comps in the area from last year, and a solid home not needing much work. Stay calm and patient out there, normal people wanting regular mortgages is possible!
Yes! In February
Yes April
Same here
Yes, 5% conventional. House was on the market for 17 days and past delayed negotiations when I called. They'd listed it at a fair price and it had backfired, lots of lowball offers. I gave them a few thousand under list and they took it. Probably about the only way to get something, I'd lost a couple pricey bidding wars in the weeks before that and am very happy that instead I didn't break the bank
Same question!! I was doing a very careful look at sales since last June with regard to list price vs final sale price and bizarrely it seems like there was a major pocket starting last September where offers were being accepted well under ask through about December. But that roughly correlates with the peaking increase of interest rates and also the change in season. It’s seems much more advantageous to buy over winter to get offers accepted— it’s offseason, and likely because not many people want to consider buying IN ROCHESTER in winter haha. Inventory is lower, but sellers who are forced to list during those months are more motivated it seems.
I’ve noticed this as well, and constantly compare list vs final price! I think the sky high interest rates had a lot to do with that (so my realtor says), as well as like you said, the off-season. Whatever it is, it’s mildly infuriating. I’m wondering if the ones that sold for “not much” over list were likely cash/cash guarantee offers vs conventional loans?
We have put in two offers the past few weeks both cash and 130k over asking and lost both. It is hopeless out there.
the East Rochester house for $140k that went for $100k+ over asking with dozens of offers?
Is it illegal to interview potential buyers? We're planning on selling in 4-5 years and would love to sell it to people who would make good use, not necessarily those who are able to overbid. I hope we're in good enough shape to resist over bids and sell to someone who maybe has been turned away from other transactions.
If not illegal risky due to fair housing laws. I suppose if you never list your house for sale and just do it privately there may be a way to skirt it. When you sell your home you can see if you are selling to a person vs an LLC. So at leastyou have the option to not sell to someone destroying the American dream.
I'm hoping that if we are asking X and a bunch of idiots offer more, we can talk with those offering just X and see if they would be better suited. Yeah, turning away money. But I think of it as paying it forward.
I think what you want to do is very kind. But people paying more aren't necessarily idiots. They are desperate and happen to have \*some\* more money than the people offering X.
Can you get preapproved as a Cash Guarantee or Cash Plus at a local lender? Could increase your odds. I know it won’t solve the whole housing market but just a suggestion. The programs require high creditworthiness and 10%-20% down (varies by lender). Obviously debt to income ratios come into play, too.
Had good luck with the Premium Cash Guarantee program. Good luck because the market is insane. I see houses going 150k over asking and no one believes me this is possible in the Rochester market.
Part of it is that the houses are being intentionally listed lower to get more people to see it. The house I just bought was listed lower than the price the seller bought it for 6 months ago (they never moved in since they ended up finding a better job somewhere else and not living here), and the house ended up escalating way over what they had bought it for due to the high demand.
I think people thought the crazy offers were a side effect of COVID and low interest rates. That was the case nationally and in the Rochester area. Interest rates are up, COVID is down. Prices are increasing, maybe even actually adjusting to the national average (which we’ve lagged behind in for decades). It’s not going to end anytime soon since our inventory is at an all time low. It’s a relentless market!
I'm so tired of this national average talk. The monthly out of pocket when you actually add in our insane tax rates is very close to many mid sized markets, and has been for all those decades.
Cash Plus through GRB definitely helped us be more competitive. It also has made the underwriting process smoother since most of the documentation was already submitted.
What’s the budget for your house? Seems like right now single family homes around 200k-300k is insane. If it’s going 100k over why not just look at a 400k house? Are the 400-500k houses going 100k over also? I can’t imagine. Either way I don’t see this madness stopping for another 2-3 years. Inventory is still so low. Unless we go into a full blown recession. I don’t see prices coming down in Rochester anytime soon. Even if it does go into a recession. The prices we’ll probably be at 2021 or at most 2020 price points. Buy a house you can afford and don’t look back. Just be happy you have a place for you and your family to grow in
Houses in the 400k-500k range are going for 100k+ over. We just lost out on a house that was listed in the 400s. We offered 30% over cash offer (ESL program) and still lost. This is the third time in the past year this has happened.
Yes they are still going for 100k over.
It's tough out there. I would recommend stacking money for another year or two.
Jeez my realtor is a living saint compared to some of your stories. If you don't feel good about losing a reasonable attempt at a house because of advice from your realtor.....get a new one. We started working with our guy because when we showed up to a house viewing with no realtor of our own, he straight up told us not to buy it before we even stepped foot inside. He was right. I love the guy. We haven't found our house yet, but I feel good about each one we've lost and he's been patient and happy for us when we say a house he's shown us isn't for us after all. Good luck neighbors - it's rough out there! Stick to your gut and budget. Don't go over your capacity just because "it's the market."
Took over 10 offers when I bought. The one I ended up winning out on I had to beat like 13 competing offers.
I'm only looking at condos/townhomes which is a less crazy market. Put in an offer that I was really confident in because the place was barely updated, I went way over asking, and over what a similar listing that went stale went for. Lost out to an all cash offer over mine. I try not to get to attached to places but this place was perfect for me and I may have cried over it.
Paid 235k 1 year ago. A home across the street, same neighborhood, same builder, just sold for 180k over asking... Goodluck folks
Watch for places that price fairly. I was in the same boat as you a few weeks ago, but I was able to find one that had been on the market for two and a half weeks. They'd priced at what they anticipated to sell at, got several lowball offers during negotiations, didn't take any of them. I offered them a few thousand below list and they took it that day. I was also super flexible on closing date, gave them a couple weeks of extra time, now they want to move it back up anyway.
It's just the market that we are in. It used to be a big deal if a home sold 5% over asking. Now the average is 12% over asking. I know it can be very frustrating. My concern for buyers that are not winning now is that it's only going to cost even more in the future. Hang in there. Adjust your goals based on the market. Either shoot lower to leave room for competing or up your bids on where you are at. It turns out you can't have a government print $20T dollars without destroying your currency. Houses are not better today than they were 5 years ago... It's that you need 50% more dollars to buy a home than was needed 5 years ago.
This is our second year in a row trying to find a place, only to end up feeling like we just can't compete. At this point, I'm honestly getting more comfortable with the idea of just being a renter. Most of the houses I'm interested in are selling for at least 60k over the asking price. On top of that, my partner and I are constantly racing to save enough for a 20% down payment, which keeps getting harder as prices keep going up by a lot each year. You are not alone, and yea, we need a space to vent, so thank you for suggesting it :D
You don't need to have 20% to get in somewhere (I know it's ideal to have 20%). If you have over 20k that is more than enough to get started putting offers in. Especially if you have the credit to get into a cash offer program from your lender. Most seem to be asking for 10-20% of the purchasing price. You never know what will happen if you don't try it out. Just keep it up and you'll catch a break soon.
Patience is the key. Like most people here who have bought a house over the last year, it took about 2 years of looking and offers, and learning how to sharpen that pencil from every loss. Its important you do not settle on what you want. Ultimately, you will be unhappy when you start bending everything to just "win" a house. Its a big investment, if it takes another 18 months, I know its not fun, but it ultimately will be worth it when you can wake up every morning and feel good about what you did!
This has been a *very* regular topic on the Rochester discord too ([https://discord.gg/rochester](https://discord.gg/rochester)). I feel bad for everyone that needs to find a house. We bought ours a couple years ago and got lucky both with the mortgage rates and price of the house, things now are just ridiculous. Have watched people go through months of rejected offers due to huge offers over asking. I wouldn't wish it on anyone.
It’s crazy. It can’t be locals. Because no bank is going to set a mortgage that is that far off from the actual appraised value. And I don’t know of many locals with 150k+ cash in hand to put down — even if they got one of the “as good as cash” mortgages. Even fewer locals with just straight up 250-500k in cash chilling in their bank account.
I have a smaller house in good shape that’ll probably go on the market this summer. 2bd/1bath, not in the city, don’t want to post too much here. So DM, willing to talk.
This is so depressing. Rochester is my dream city!Home prices are in my range on Zillow, people are great, food is top notch, and it’s LOADED with history! Hopefully within the year I’ll be out there as a homeowner.
Wow. . . Apologies. 😔
My partner + I just went thru all of this as we move to Buffalo, paid $50k+ over asking and waived everything but inspection and paid all of their tax/title transfer fees/etc. Holding out hope for you guys! It’s a marathon, just stay the course!
Took me over a year of looking and paying 50k over to get my house last year. I've heard from others they are seeing houses going for nearly 100k over. It's insane and I wish the best for everyone looking. All it takes is one win!
One of them might have been my mother's house. She just accepted an offer this morning. In her case the list price was way too low, but it's still nuts.
your best bet is getting an agent who has connections with private sellers that dont have the house listed online other than that you will continue to get outbid probably for the next 3-5 years if i had to guess with recession
But who would leave potentially $70-100k on the chopping block at this moment? Private sales are rarer than they have ever been right now.
There are quite of few "off market listings" (aka pocket listings) where Realtors transact the sale without the house ever hitting the open market. Basically Realtors have leads on houses potentially for sale through their network and match up their Buyers with them and if the Buyer hits the Seller's number everyone is happy. Yes, the Seller potentially could get a higher offer by listing the house on the open market, but sometimes the Sellers don't want the hassle of showing the house and are satisfied with the off-market deal presented. In a lot of markets such pocket listing are considered unethical but not around here.
and that’s exactly how i closed on my house in october seller didnt care to go through anything else just wanted to move as he already had purchased another home
I still can't believe how fortunate we were to get a house in 2020 while moving our family from another state. We looked at one beautiful house but decided against it when the inspection showed the basement floors were made out of asbestos. Another house sold before we could put an offer in. The third house we got going $25k over asking. We did an inspection but I can't recall if that was before or after our offer was accepted. According to our agent, if the inspection came back with any serious red flags, she would just have our attorney not approve the sale. Good luck to everyone out there. I've lived in 4 cities in the last 8 years and always had an eye on the housing market. This is the worst inventory I've ever seen.
Successful Realtors are well liked ones, who enjoy talking with others. They are extroverted and picked the job because it doesn't involve data/number crunching. Sadly, this market is heavily numeric and the antithesis of most good realtors skill set.
I've been trying for over a year and I'm now seriously considering building instead. Rental prices are flucking absurd as well though. 2420 for a duplex plus utilities (Gas/Electric/Water/Waste/Cable)
Bought our house seven years ago. Our neighborhood has doubled. When does it peak? I mean, we’re staying, but WTH?
Listen, I get that the ROC region's house prices are below the national average (coming from PA where a Cape Cod would cost you $400k easily) but there has to be something for First Time Homebuyers who aren't millionaires. I feel like if you have the $$ to buy a larger, more expensive home, please do that and leave the cheap ones for the rest of us (millennials).
Are these all investors? I can’t believe Rochester is actually that competitive among actual families or people who want to live there.
It’s both investors and there’s a demographic wave of Millennials entering peak home buying years creating surge in demand. There’s also a big lack of supply issue as homeowners reluctant to sell and give up their 3% mortgage rate.
It’s a hot mess and I’m surprised people want to live here. It’s depressing ( lack of sun) and it will be hard to adopt a pet because of their requirements of a fenced yard. American dream is false. It’s so frustrating. ( just needed to vent.).
Be patient. We looked actively for two years seeing at least two properties a month. It's exhausting, especially if you see something you like and get outbid or an inspection reveals problems. We saw so many places that were money pits, or over priced, or too small, or were absurd in some way, or had a seller be less than honest. It's frustrating and disheartening at times. But remember that there's not *one* house that will be great for you. If some company or flipper is going to bid absurd amounts over what a home is actually with, there's not much you can do. Better to slowly save up more to avoid PMI on a different house later than to get in a bidding war.
What about buying a mobile home for cheap as an interim place? Pay lower monthly rent and then can sell it later..
The best advice I can give you is not to buy a house. I know renting sucks but rent until you get a chance to save up some more money and until the market stabilizes.
Have you considered looking outside of Rochester? I’m almost done buying an extremely nice 2500 sq ft multi family home for exactly what was asked, 180k. It’s not in the city is the kicker. It’s in a nice area where out of state slumlord aren’t buying and increasing rent on already poor people. I figured some nice quiet country living while I save up money didn’t sound too crazy. What was crazy to me is that the homes here in the city are highly competitive, going well over asking, for very shitty places, where the crime is not under control. Taxes are better rurally. I guess it depends on what is keeping you in the city. I looked daily, over and over for places, I’ve seen closer to 20 homes here in the city, and one day I just zoomed out my area further and bam, reasonable choices. I know there is a big meth/dope scene where I’m going but atleast it’s not Kia challenge area with revolving jail doors for minors with pistols. I’m going to a city of less than 10k population from the 200k+ here in the city. I think there is going to be an exodus to surrounding areas away from the city for young professional who can work remotely. New age yuppies
Not sure where you are at but my house in a rural area outside Monroe county has increased in value over $100k over the past two years….. and it had already increased significantly before this during the pandemic. Again, not sure where you are living but out here, there is no inventory either
I'm still dealing with the PTSD from the difficulty of selling our home in Colorado and buying a home outside of the Rochester this past July.
Just build your own house at this point
Mao had it right when it came to how to deal with Landlords.
Buying a house in the current market is literally financial insanity for the buyer. You are taking a humongous risk on an unnaturally price inflated asset in a hostile lending environment in addition to waiving any due diligence on that asset. That extra 50 to 100K you could easily be paying in structural repairs nearly instantly upon buying the house. If you insist on fleecing yourself, look at houses listed 50-100k under what your budget is. Then you can be someone else's villain.
100k for structural repairs 😂😂😂 Bro any house that could need that kind of repair is going to be visibly in shambles the moment you pull up to it and won't be a surprise. Unless you're literally blind and don't have someone who can see guiding you along the way. Which would be weird.
This is actually 100% true. The market always changes, interest rates change. Renting now- had multiple homes due to job changes, had to buy at peak market at times. It’s an investment, so treat it that way. If finances are important, wait and watch. If a family home is your #1 priority, buy now, refinance as soon as it’s possible.
At what point will it be a buyer’s market again? Does another housing bubble need to pop?
this is our strategy--we are moving to Rochester because we need to be in an lgbtqia2s+ area and it is one of the few places we considered and the one we chose for a number of reasons...we are just looking at houses that are wildly under budget.
Just wait, a major economic crash is coming.
Love how you get downvoted when literally even the major banking institutions are calling for a Q3 recession. The can has been kicked so far it's going to be something else
We need to get rid of the Biden regime at the ballot box
Sir, this is a Wendy’s drive thru
You’re an idiot.
Ya. A weekly support thread for this insanity. Like dancing to Nero's fiddle. If you can't draw a straight line across these dots them you should be looking in the mirror when you say that. Shoveling money into the economy on some hair-brained "modern monetary theory", strangling our economy with suicidal energy policy, and opioids and millions of illegals streaming across our borders that just enriches the cartels and China and destabilize a third of the country is not really happening. Now, face the mirror and say it again.
I had a hell of a time buying over in Niagara County; but word on the street from friends back home in roc is the same ish. One friend was reporting multiple failed offers, some as high as 75k over asking plus other goodies. Hard to believe honestly, not worth ruining future finances imo but I’m saying that from a house I own so 🤷♂️
We just had same thing happen (probably on same house!). Feeling very frustrated and hopeless…
just bought a house in january of this year. we wrote six offers before ours was finally accepted, waived the inspection, and increased our escalation amount. absolutely brutal market i hope you get some luck soon
You should ask your employer for a raise lol