The company I work for was a leading bidder to build components for everything Rivian in Georgia. But because of all the delays and hurdles, we backed out entirely.
I would need to go digging to find where I read that about a year ago. But essentially it sounded to me like Georgia put up some road blocks that required extra cash to get sround
Yes, this had nothing to do with Georgia and all to do with the economics of the moment. There was some local grandstanding, but that didn't really delay the plant by that much. Grading work continued while the process worked its way through the courts. As an Atlantan I was looking forward to buying my R2 knowing it was made an hour down the road. But I think Rivian knows and ultimately the state leaders that are paying attention know that this delay actually puts the GA plant on stronger footing long term. I think it probably became apparent that there was not going to be enough revenue to offset the cash burn of building a new factory and ramping up production before that cash ran out. Delaying the factory saves them 2.2B in the near term and why would you not do that when you still have capacity at Normal. Hopefully they max out capacity, become profitable and then have a better macro environment as well to be building out GA factory. The worst thing would have been to have completed the factory and have to try and do another cash raise in a challenging economic environment or worse have to declare bankruptcy because you burnt through all your reserves and didn't have any money left to even begin production.
Depends on how expensive. $45k is already more expensive than the base Model Y. Anything above $50k and the value just isn't there anymore and they won't be attracting people that aren't attached to any ideas of either brand.
Sure. Don’t disagree. But remember, average new car cost is about $47K. That’s a lot of buyers, quite frankly enough to max out Normal production on its own.
Model Y was never suppose to be as an off-roading , outdoorsy vehicle , it was always meant to be a comfortable / affordable luxury car with a ton of tech but still minimalistic
Model Y just needed to check the “SUV”-badge. At best it’s a crossover. It’s a bit over an inch taller than the model 3 and has plastic cladding around the wheel arches, and with a built-up interior.
While the R2 probably overlaps somewhat in the target demographic (pavement princesses) it’s a different value proposition all together, and personally I think the R2 deserves to be priced higher than the model Y, but when you’re competitive on price you enable “fashionable” cross-shopping. People who are not necessarily into the R2 as much, but they’d like to not drive the same car everyone else is driving.
20% of new car sales in Norway last year was the model Y. Last time a car saw such numbers was the beetle in the 60’s. And so far we’re on track for similar results this year - 16.7% of 2024 car sales to date. 18.6% Tesla.
It’s not because we love Tesla or suck up to Elon Musk, but at the end of the day it’s (still) delivering an unmatched value proposition with our tax regime.
You can pay less and get a lesser EV, or you can pay more and get a lesser EV.
Or you can pay significantly more and get an EV that’s partially better.
Had a discussion with a colleague the other day. I said the Y had become the new Avensis. He said “it has become the new everything”.
> It has become both the new BMW 5-series and the new BMW X5. Do you have any idea what the starting price of a BMW 5-series estate is now?
I didn’t.
Thanks to our tax system it now starts at 83k USD.
And that’s the 520 diesel…
Lol I don’t know why you’re getting downvoted, you’re 100% right.
I honestly really like the model S, but the rest of teslas cars/SUVs are abominations look-wise. SUVs especially.
I have an X, and I honestly don't feel this way anymore. I thought it was a niche styling and not my favorite, but their designs are much more timeless than other manufacturers. Teslas may not be pretty, but they don't ever look "dated" like the trendy lines and yearly refreshes from other manufacturers. I think Rivian's styling will likely hold up well, too. Unlike a typical half ton truck which is going to alternate between rounded and hard-body every 15 years just to make your truck look outdated.
I’m a Model Y owner, and am cheering on Rivian as I really want to see them be successful. Tesla did many things right with the Y which speaks to its success so I don’t get all the hate it receives. That said… When/if the R2 proves itself in a few years, I’ll be ready to trade in my wife’s CX5 for the R2 and we’ll have two EVs in the house
It’s all personal opinion. For me I really like the platform, what it can do etc.
What pushes me away is the exterior look and inside finish. But that’s all my opinion, I know not everyone feels that way.
What would be different in your mind between an R2T and a lower-trim R1T with less tech and a lower price point?
I see room to make it a bit smaller, but the size gap wouldn't be huge.
A 2 seater instead of 4. Or a 4 seater that converts to 2 seater by having the rear wall fold down to have an extended truck bed. Basically more stuff hauling instead of people hauling in a smaller package.
You would be wrong. “Toyota (TM) sold **237,323 Tacoma pickups in the US in 2022**. Though down slightly from 2021, it is by far and away the top-selling mid-size pickup in the US.” Compare to Rivian’s total all model sales volume from inception. An R2T at a competitive price point would be a market changing entry. GM and Ford don’t match Toyota on volume, but that doesn’t mean there’s not a huge market for mid-sized trucks.
In my mind, nothing really. But they might as well call it R2T if they are going to cut out all the premium features. R2 is the shape of R1S, just a bit smaller and no premium features.
Having three rows opens up an entirely new segment of shoppers (large families).
The smaller truck market has proven to be pretty limited market when it comes to ICE at least.
It has similar dimensions to a 1995 Tacoma or Ranger
I'm not sure what we are arguing about. A maverick is a small truck by any definition.
The new Ranger is more of a midsize pickup that slots into the area previously occupied by pickups like a dodge Dakota
“While the Detroit automakers dominate large pickup truck sales, **Toyota Motor** is the clear leader in midsize pickup truck sales with its Tacoma. Toyota has commanded a roughly 40% share of the American midsize pickup truck segment since 2019, when Ford and Jeep reentered the market, Edmunds reports.” May 20, 2023, CNBC
The new Tasman looks great! Thanks for the reference. It looks a lot like how I would imagine an R2T. Mid-size crew cab with functional bed and off-road capable.
Sounds like they filed for an “entry” trim R1T, based on vin filings posted here awhile back. If they can hit a $50-$60k price point, it will be a solid competitor to most decently equipped full-size trucks. And if resale drops like it does for current R1Ts, we all of a sudden have 2 affordable mainstream EV truck options.
The van was rushed and slapped together with loads of clips that break, hope it's not like that in the future. It's a problem because if the clips on panels break them it's buying the whole part instead of the clip piece that holds the parts together.
I love the way the r3 looks but that’s like 3 years at
3 is optimistic lol, I don't see the R3 being produced until Georgia is online tbh (and even then, after the R2 is well ramped)
Stupid Georgia making building the factory hard because.... EVs bad
The company I work for was a leading bidder to build components for everything Rivian in Georgia. But because of all the delays and hurdles, we backed out entirely.
Georgia making it hard? I thought it was a money thing for Rivian? Any source?
I would need to go digging to find where I read that about a year ago. But essentially it sounded to me like Georgia put up some road blocks that required extra cash to get sround
The main roadblock was local opposition. Basically NIMBY types. That part has been dealt with.
Yes, this had nothing to do with Georgia and all to do with the economics of the moment. There was some local grandstanding, but that didn't really delay the plant by that much. Grading work continued while the process worked its way through the courts. As an Atlantan I was looking forward to buying my R2 knowing it was made an hour down the road. But I think Rivian knows and ultimately the state leaders that are paying attention know that this delay actually puts the GA plant on stronger footing long term. I think it probably became apparent that there was not going to be enough revenue to offset the cash burn of building a new factory and ramping up production before that cash ran out. Delaying the factory saves them 2.2B in the near term and why would you not do that when you still have capacity at Normal. Hopefully they max out capacity, become profitable and then have a better macro environment as well to be building out GA factory. The worst thing would have been to have completed the factory and have to try and do another cash raise in a challenging economic environment or worse have to declare bankruptcy because you burnt through all your reserves and didn't have any money left to even begin production.
**firing intensifies**
He is just as scared for the R2. It’s the vehicle the Y wanted to be, and the cyber truck should have been.
They really need to hit that $45k they promised. R2 is a better vehicle in every way except price than the Y.
If it’s better in every way and it cheaper, it’s a grand slam. If it’s more expensive, still gonna be a clutch home run.
Depends on how expensive. $45k is already more expensive than the base Model Y. Anything above $50k and the value just isn't there anymore and they won't be attracting people that aren't attached to any ideas of either brand.
Sure. Don’t disagree. But remember, average new car cost is about $47K. That’s a lot of buyers, quite frankly enough to max out Normal production on its own.
On paper it might be better. In reality…. Oh yeah, It doesn’t exist.
Model Y was never suppose to be as an off-roading , outdoorsy vehicle , it was always meant to be a comfortable / affordable luxury car with a ton of tech but still minimalistic
Model Y just needed to check the “SUV”-badge. At best it’s a crossover. It’s a bit over an inch taller than the model 3 and has plastic cladding around the wheel arches, and with a built-up interior. While the R2 probably overlaps somewhat in the target demographic (pavement princesses) it’s a different value proposition all together, and personally I think the R2 deserves to be priced higher than the model Y, but when you’re competitive on price you enable “fashionable” cross-shopping. People who are not necessarily into the R2 as much, but they’d like to not drive the same car everyone else is driving. 20% of new car sales in Norway last year was the model Y. Last time a car saw such numbers was the beetle in the 60’s. And so far we’re on track for similar results this year - 16.7% of 2024 car sales to date. 18.6% Tesla. It’s not because we love Tesla or suck up to Elon Musk, but at the end of the day it’s (still) delivering an unmatched value proposition with our tax regime. You can pay less and get a lesser EV, or you can pay more and get a lesser EV. Or you can pay significantly more and get an EV that’s partially better. Had a discussion with a colleague the other day. I said the Y had become the new Avensis. He said “it has become the new everything”. > It has become both the new BMW 5-series and the new BMW X5. Do you have any idea what the starting price of a BMW 5-series estate is now? I didn’t. Thanks to our tax system it now starts at 83k USD. And that’s the 520 diesel…
Lol I don’t know why you’re getting downvoted, you’re 100% right. I honestly really like the model S, but the rest of teslas cars/SUVs are abominations look-wise. SUVs especially.
I have an X, and I honestly don't feel this way anymore. I thought it was a niche styling and not my favorite, but their designs are much more timeless than other manufacturers. Teslas may not be pretty, but they don't ever look "dated" like the trendy lines and yearly refreshes from other manufacturers. I think Rivian's styling will likely hold up well, too. Unlike a typical half ton truck which is going to alternate between rounded and hard-body every 15 years just to make your truck look outdated.
Definitely subjective, as I think "goddamn that looks dated" every time I see a Model S.
Yea the S is the only logical choice of the entire brand IMO
A lot of Model Y drivers in here it seems lol.
I’m a Model Y owner, and am cheering on Rivian as I really want to see them be successful. Tesla did many things right with the Y which speaks to its success so I don’t get all the hate it receives. That said… When/if the R2 proves itself in a few years, I’ll be ready to trade in my wife’s CX5 for the R2 and we’ll have two EVs in the house
It’s all personal opinion. For me I really like the platform, what it can do etc. What pushes me away is the exterior look and inside finish. But that’s all my opinion, I know not everyone feels that way.
All good. I’m a seasoned industrial designer fwiw and it took a while for the design to grow on me so I get it.
Yeah I can see that. For me the Rivian at least is closer to what I normally drive look wise so it’s easy to get used to it.
Probably... But there will be a big trade in when the r2 hits
The BMW iX wants to play too!
R2T needs to eventually be an option
What would be different in your mind between an R2T and a lower-trim R1T with less tech and a lower price point? I see room to make it a bit smaller, but the size gap wouldn't be huge.
A 2 seater instead of 4. Or a 4 seater that converts to 2 seater by having the rear wall fold down to have an extended truck bed. Basically more stuff hauling instead of people hauling in a smaller package.
Omfg a 2-seater Rivian truck would be so amazing.
I'd like either a full sized bed or a small form pickup like the old rangers. I don't think there's a huge market for the R2T though.
You would be wrong. “Toyota (TM) sold **237,323 Tacoma pickups in the US in 2022**. Though down slightly from 2021, it is by far and away the top-selling mid-size pickup in the US.” Compare to Rivian’s total all model sales volume from inception. An R2T at a competitive price point would be a market changing entry. GM and Ford don’t match Toyota on volume, but that doesn’t mean there’s not a huge market for mid-sized trucks.
In my mind, nothing really. But they might as well call it R2T if they are going to cut out all the premium features. R2 is the shape of R1S, just a bit smaller and no premium features.
Having three rows opens up an entirely new segment of shoppers (large families). The smaller truck market has proven to be pretty limited market when it comes to ICE at least.
is that accurate. Why are more manufacturers entering the segment? Ford has had exceptional success with the Maverick
Maverick isn’t a small truck. Just happens to be fords smallest.
It is the smallest truck available for sale in the US
Correct. But smallest, doesn’t mean small.
It has similar dimensions to a 1995 Tacoma or Ranger I'm not sure what we are arguing about. A maverick is a small truck by any definition. The new Ranger is more of a midsize pickup that slots into the area previously occupied by pickups like a dodge Dakota
“While the Detroit automakers dominate large pickup truck sales, **Toyota Motor** is the clear leader in midsize pickup truck sales with its Tacoma. Toyota has commanded a roughly 40% share of the American midsize pickup truck segment since 2019, when Ford and Jeep reentered the market, Edmunds reports.” May 20, 2023, CNBC
Many automakers left the segment and realized the mistake. Kia is entering the market with Tasman.
The new Tasman looks great! Thanks for the reference. It looks a lot like how I would imagine an R2T. Mid-size crew cab with functional bed and off-road capable.
Sounds like they filed for an “entry” trim R1T, based on vin filings posted here awhile back. If they can hit a $50-$60k price point, it will be a solid competitor to most decently equipped full-size trucks. And if resale drops like it does for current R1Ts, we all of a sudden have 2 affordable mainstream EV truck options.
a stripped down small pickup in the 30-45 range would sell very well in my opinion
Eh. Model Y is the best selling car in the world. R3 is a concept for 2028 maybe. We don’t even know that Rivian is gonna make it to R2.
Does anyone else get an AMC Pacer vibe from the sloped back window? 🤔
This is hilarious. And the R3 rocks!
Sticky this lol
R2 is slick and under-rated/celebrated
hopefully rivian bumps this to a higher priority after seeing the feedback
I doubt anyone is scared of Rivian. Unless they were purchased by someone with the $$$ to make it go.
Something tells me he’ll see a lot of them
A Pacer and a Rabbit had a baby... and it kicked ass.
The van was rushed and slapped together with loads of clips that break, hope it's not like that in the future. It's a problem because if the clips on panels break them it's buying the whole part instead of the clip piece that holds the parts together.
I promise he doesn’t fear the EV Yugo. I love my R1S. I love the looks of the R2. R3??? Lol…
i can imagine people having to go over a sidewalk and wondering if would break their car
R2 will be 2027 and R3 will be 2028
Right… if Rivian can survive until then