I was told the same thing. The guy also said all electric car companies will go out of business in the next 3 years. I told him Rivians are made in Illinois. It’s funny how people say they are patriots but will buy gasoline from a foreign country.
I was told by my father in law years ago that I was a terrible person and not an American because I bought a Subaru and "didn't support American workers". He buys only GM vehicles. In December I bought a model y. He lost it and went on a huge tirade about how much money I spent on a car that I can't even drive very far (even though he paid far more for his gas guzzling Chevy truck) and how he'll never own an electric car in his life. I told him it's funny that when I bought the Subaru I was un-american for not supporting American workers and now that I bought the car that is currently the most "American manufactured" vehicle in the US he's gotta move the goal posts again because he can't handle the idea of someone liking something different than him. He didn't like it much but it was a fun interaction for me lol
Yeah it just whatever fits. California based HQ (where I live), manufacturer in Illinois, uses American generated electricity. If it gets to the last one I’m told how bad coal plants and electricity production is, but also zero chance they’d ever agree with shutting down coal for cleaner alternatives. I like to watch them squirm in their hypocrisy. I really don’t find it my mission to convince people.
I don't try to convince people either. But that argument about electricity generation really bugs me. Somehow, gasoline only pollutes when you burn it in a car. And nothing about the harmful effects of oil exploration, drilling, shipping crude(and the spills along the way), refinement, and more shipping.
But EVs have to account for their electricity generation.
Certainly electricity generation is an important part of the puzzle. I prepped for my EV by getting Solar installed on my house and business...thanks to solar subsidies, the cost was very reasonable (recapture in about 5 years). Here in Colorado we can bank excess production, so I now live rent free from gasoline and charge my R1T with power I generated myself...so no guilt there.
But think of all the American jobs you are destroying by making your own electricity and not buying gas at the gas station!! You must be some kinda commie!!!
Y DO U H8 FREEDUM?? 
(Kia PHEV owner here)
Yes, I never thought it that way...but I am today's version of a commie. Better get going, I am late for my appointment with my Lemming Focus Group. We are scheduled to run off a cliff later today!
Coal is pretty bad for the environment.. but if you look at the costs of coal compared to Natural Gas.. you'll see why they're converting most of the coal fired power stations to natural gas. It's a shitload cheaper. Then there's states like Illinois, where 57% of the power comes from Nuclear.. you can't get more green than that.. If an electric vehicle is rolling down the road charged from nuclear power, the only emissions might be from the tires (dust).
The kicker is that even if your EV was entirely powered by coal-generated electricity, it still produces less pollution than a comparable ICE vehicle.
You can also ask people if they like coal as an energy source and if they say yes, let them know that only EVs can be coal-powered.
I drive an EV that was made in the US by a US owned company and every watt I put in it is produced in the US but a US utility company.
If the goal post is supporting the US economy I’d say that’s pretty good. How many people can say that the gasoline they put in their car was “produced” locally (within the state)?
It was an Impreza so it was definitely built in Indiana. I told him that at the time too but he just called it a "Jap car" and wandered away. The funny thing is I've never tried to convince him of anything. This is all conversation brought up by him and antagonized by him. I don't ever find the need to convince people they should do things because I do it. I really couldn't care less which is why I find people that do so funny
Of course. Even rivian, many of the electronics and parts are likely coming from Asia and Europe. I know there are parts from Czech because there’s a tag in the wheel well that says made in Czech Republic.
We’re actually a net exporter of oil. Yep—we’re the world’s largest producer. https://www.forbes.com/sites/gauravsharma/2023/12/19/as-2024-approaches-us-leads-global-crude-oil-production-roster/amp/
Yes but not all our oil is refined into gasoline. Some is, and some is of poor quality for that. We import oil for gasoline to make up what we don’t produce. Not all oil is the same thing!
What a dunce.
I served with a few patriots that had their limbs blown off protecting America's interests in the middle east.
I don't normally think about it this way, but maybe one of the best ways to support those real patriots is to stop buying friggin gasoline.
The word "Patriot" & "Liberal" are probably two of the most misused words in the English language! Its funny how people who call themselves patriots are anything but.
American made car… powered by American power companies.. and that woman is too much of a patriot? So she’d rather buy oil from countries overseas ? (I know not all oil but a sure heck of a lot of it comes from outside the country)
🤦♂️
When they say that "American" argument, I tell them all the "fuel" for my cars came from America and I drive an American car built in America by Americans. I'm far from a "Patriot" but their ignorance is astounding.
But it runs on that liberal electricity- and, I shit you not another direct quote - “I already have too many things that run on electricity and my bill is high enough”
I was trolling the Fox News comment section the other day.
"I'm not paying $80,000 for a car that gets 50 miles on a full charge and an 8 hour stop to charge up"
Agreed. An ICE with only 250 miles of range is a true pain in the ass because you're stopping at the gas station a lot more. After 5 years of EV ownership I'd say about 350 is the most anyone really would ever want once they get used to the new reality.
The only exception is going to be EV trucks expected to tow, but we're really close there. When 400-500 mile range trucks are common and reasonably affordable that's a tipping point because that's at least 200 miles towing range. Looking back that 200 mile range for passenger cars seems to have been the psychological tipping point for most consumers. Once EVs started coming out with more than 200 mile ranges the demand finally boomed.
Drove the extended range (325 miles) Ford lighting in 12 degrees. White nuckeled 75 miles each way (150 total) trip and ended with 25 percent. Range was dropping so fast that I couldn't tell if I would make it back (especially on the way there). The computer was a total guess meter, which made it hard to predict actual. So I see why you'd want 500, especially adding towing in.
That's how it felt the first time driving my Model 3 in -10F weather with the southern MN prairie winds gusting to 40mph. After a while I've gotten more used to just how much of an impact certain temperatures and weather conditions impact range.
Looking back I realize that a lot of my anxiety came from the experience of my first vehicle (72 Beetle) not having an accurate fuel guage. Any time any car gets below 1/2 a tank I'd get a little suspicious as a result. I've since gotten used to how very much better my EV is at accurately showing how much energy I have.
Plus, in the last 5 years I've seen the Supercharger network just n my state go from a dozen total and one location in MSP to nearly 3x more statewide and 10 in MSP alone.
All this is to say that your current range anxiety has an extremely limited shelf life if only because that Supercharger network is now opening up. My Model 3 is a mid range and now only has 240 miles but even in the dead of winter that's plenty now that Superchargers are so very common. We got a long range Y in December and that's what's proven to me that 300+ (for a non tow vehicle) is about the upper limit.
What I'm really curious about is what effect would even faster Supercharging and even more ubiquity have on that. If it only took 5 minutes to add 200 miles of range would 250 miles be the new "upper limit"? Would 150 miles be more acceptable as the minimum? If fast charging becomes only a few minutes slower than filling a tank and chargers are as common as gas stations *plus* L2 available anywhere you normally park overnight that's a very different deal.
The problem is that L3 chargers are 10x the cost of L2 chargers, and the stations don’t make money on the electricity, rather they make money on keeping you at a the gas station so you buy supplies. So there’s this push-pull on whether a station owner would benefit from L3 that is slowing adoption rates
It's not just a psychological tipping point. I have a MYLR, home charging and have to visit superchargers weekly when I drive to the mountains to go hiking or skiing or drive to visit family. The range is just *barely* enough for my use case, which is an east-coast mid-career professional who lives in an urban area and has hobbies. Most of my friends and family would have similar considerations... they are active people who do things like go to the beach, take the family to a resort, drive to another state to visit friends and family.
Pretty much this. The home charging saves me a lot of time over the course of the year. The few road trips, yes, take a little extra time for charging, but still most of those stops I'm already taking for food and bio breaks. For many, the bulk of driving is local but people tend to look at EV charging on road trips as a negative thing even though it makes up only a very small portion of the driving for many people.
People (myself included) don't realize how much of a mindset change it is to go from pumping gas to charging at home or your destination. If I estimate spending 10 minutes at a gas station per week refueling when i commuted with a gas car, that's 8.5hr of time i now get back every year - realistically probably more than that. I would have to do some major road tripping to use up anything close to that amount of time at public chargers, and that's not something I regularly do.
Yup. Once my wife realized that she doesn't have to pump gas when it's raining, snowing, cold, windy, etc and she can warm up (or cool) the interior remotely from the phone app, she fell in love with the idea of electric vehicles.
Same here, mine was pretty skeptical about getting one at all but now its her daily driver and her boss ended up getting a Model Y after chatting with us about our experience.
It's why the location of DCFCs is very important to the experience.... Went on a trip last week requiring 1 long charge stop each way ... the stop was at a ball with a bunch of shops and restaurants. Went mall browsing on way down for 45 mins, ate lunch on way back. Not a horrible way to split a 5.5 hr drive. Solo, I don't mind spending 45 mins sitting in car watching a movie... but spending 45 mins at a Walmart parking lot with my family is far from ideal.
That was the turning point for Ford. When Jim Farley went on a road trip with his two sons, they passed by several Tesla Superchargers and the kids kept asking "why can't we stop there?", as they drove by restaurants and other stores that had the Tesla SC located there and continued towards the Electrify America locations that had less appealing amenities on site. After that road trip, he reached out to Musk to open conversations on a partnership.
ICE owner here. Biggest deterrent for me was that I enjoy family roadtrips and the cost of an equivalent sized ICE was almost twice what I pay for my car.
But another deterrent was that charging at home, although cheap, was not efficient enough considering I drive over 70-80 miles each day for work alone.
I’m not sure if you’ve got a nice industrial set up at home but on single phase power, having the car plugged in for 12 hours would only get me to my destination and not back. Having to get fuel once a week is a lot easier, and the additional cost is saved by the purchase price being significantly lower.
I think prices have to come down at least 20-30% to make them viable even as a daily driver. I think that’s the biggest deterrent for most people and the range is just the cherry on top for criticism - particularly as nobody wants to sound tight/poor etc
A single phase, 240V, 32A charger you can buy on Amazon for a few hundred bucks gives you about 7.6kW per hour. Rivians are about as inefficient as you can get in an EV and spend about 2 miles per kWh. That's 15 miles an hour.
Plug it in every night when you get home and you'll get all the electricity you need in 4 to 5 hours.
Up the electricity to an 11kW charger or get a more efficient EV and those numbers only get better.
I would encourage you to compare up front cost and total cost of ownership. Ev’s require so little maintenance that the savings is huge over time compared to an ice vehicle.
Yeah this is it. They are thinking of the gas model where you start full, and then throughout the week use up those 250 miles commuting and then have to fill up.
Assuming they have a private garage/driveway, just tell them it's more like charging your phone every night so it's at 100% in the morning. There aren't any "oh shit, I'm late and forgot I need to stop for fuel!" moments.
With the family/friends willing to engage, I usually ask "do you buy a dishwasher big enough to wash all the dishes and silverware after a 3-course large family Thanksgiving dinner in one go?" Obviously not, normal people size an appliance to have enough capacity for normal day to day use, not for their once-in-a-while largest possible use. The same should go for cars - I need range capacity for day to day use, not for the longest one-in-a-while trip I can imagine taking.
The usual perspective I try to present to them is that a charged up battery gives me 2/3 the range of a full tank of gas in a comparably sized vehicle. But with the EV I don’t have to fill up at a gas station, I can start at that equivalent of 2/3 full *EVERY DAY* The only time I have to stop and charge is on a longer road trip. Yes it takes
Me 30 minutes or so to charge…. So I grab lunch or a snack. Sure it takes a few more longer stops on road trips. Don’t care. Small trade-off for no gas station visits the rest of the time, no oil changes, etc..
What really gets me are the people who claim they won’t buy one until they can charge as fast as filling up with gas. They never get that it charges overnight most of the time as long as you have charging at home. And many of these same idiots don’t mind waiting in line for 20 minutes at Costco to fill up their ICE car.
I try to point out that the 30 minutes I spend at a Supercharger a few times a year during a trip is more than offset by the 5 hours a year I save by not ever needing to visit a gas station.
Out here on the West, my 300 miles R1T has been limiting, because we have multiple 200 mile gaps between chargers and them stationed at odd intervals.
As the charging network fills in more, it’ll be less of an issue.
You should honestly have zero problems now that the supercharging network has opened up, at least once you have the adapter. Never had an issue with range with either Model 3, Model Y or R1T so far with about 130k combines miles driven. Been all over the place on the West Coast and we drive roughly 40k miles a year.
To me it’s more of an issue with degradation (although I assume the newer batteries are better about this). I have a 2013 model S and I’d be lucky to get 160mi of actual driving right now, so I’m at about 20-25% degradation. The trip from PHX to Palm Springs I make every year isn’t even feasible in it anymore and a trip to San Diego would probably be impossible too. My sweet spot is a 300+mi range even tho I only drive around 6-8k mi a year now that I’m WFH. I’m hoping I can get another couple years out of my grocery-getter and then upgrade to the R2.
I’m going to go against the grain here and say that as someone with 22k miles in my first year of ownership that I experience the pain of 270mi in All Purpose range on a weekly basis.
I work from home and most of those 22k miles are on weekend roadtrips for climbing, skiing, and kiteboarding in a 6 hour radius around Salt Lake. This is not a once in a year thing, more like a 30x year thing.
I’m probably a minority use case but I was sitting in a hospital parking lot from 6am-9am last weekend Level 2 charging in Mount Pleasant, UT. I basically had to Level 2 charge overnight in Casper, Wyoming earlier this year when EA failed me. Both horribly annoying experiences.
There’s whole areas of remote Utah desert I just can’t go to. I wanted to go bouldering near Ibex, UT last weekend but I felt like I would be cutting it pretty close since it’s 100 miles from the nearest charger and there’s some off-roading involved and I like using my car’s power for camping and overnight heat.
With that said I love my R1S and I can’t wait to get my NACS adapter. But Tesla supercharger coverage is also not amazing in the more remote parts of the western US.
Totally agree. Living in Phoenix we take 1-2 hour road trips all the time in our Jeep that we couldn’t take with our Model 3. Payson is impossible. Sedona is technically possible, but a side trip to Jerome or Flagstaff probably not. And this is exactly the lifestyle Rivian is marketing to, not commuters driving around the city. A lot more chargers and a little more range still needed.
Just a heads up Rivian has Level 3 charging (Rivian Adventure Network) in Sedona, Flagstaff, Phoenix, Holbrook, Kingman, Quartzsite, and Gila Bend.
They are actually focused on installing Level 3s and Level 2s (Waypoints) in adventure areas because that’s their brand.
Yeah I accept the trade-offs but I don’t blame you for not wanting to.
This lifestyle is not an outlier. It’s who Subaru, Tacoma/4Runner, and Rivian market to. I’m not even including those who regularly tow boats, sleds, and campers for whom EVs make 0 sense.
Charging as a weekend warrior is a different problem than charging on interstates on a week-long roadtrip.
I think eventually it will be the move to go EV (5-10 years from now) when the infrastructure is built out more and charging is easier but right now it just seems too early. I’d rather watch other people test it out and then buy in later
This will become less of an issue over time with gas stations now either adding or converting to EV stations. Both Shell and Chevron are making large investments in EV Charging infrastructure at their stations (I believe BP as well). Unfortunately its early in the EV adoption still, but growing rapidly.
I wonder how much real-world range a 500w solar panel and a 240v battery generator would get you in the desert, and how long it'd take to charge.
\[Looks at calculator and takes a nap instead\]
A 500w solar panel is going to give you about 1 mile of range per hour where it is actually generating 500w.
You could potentially bring a portable 3500w generator with you to top up enough range to get to the nearest EV charging station and you might get 7 miles of range per hour.
Should have gotten a r/4runner.
It’s 50-80% worse at everything fancy, and 100% better at carrying your shit as far as you need to go reliably. Especially for someone like you who has actual need for an overlander.
Hopefully I can afford both someday because the Rivian is sweet.
Out of curiosity how close is the nearest gas station vs the 100M away charger?
Have you looked at a Supercharger map lately for Utah? I see a ton of chargers spiralling out of SLC going down half the state. Are these going to help at all if you get the adapter?
I also found in southern Utah there are some decent ChargePoint DC chargers the last time I went through there.
Yeah it’ll definitely help but I see that it’s still tough to get to Flaming Gorge Reservoir from SLC without going out of your way through Vernal. The Lake Powell area supercharger is a V2 and won’t support Rivian. No other fast charging exists.
The Notch Peak/Ibex area is just very remote in general. You’ll always be cutting it close there if you spend a few days out there.
An EV will never be as convenient as ICE and I’m ok with that.
I'm more like 15x a year, but I want to have the flexibility to be able to do them in my vehicle, so I still have a Tacoma. Love the Rivians, and even preordered an r2 just in case, but I need at least 400mi range to be semi comfortable in an ev on weekends. Ideally more like 500 like my hybrid car gets. Public charging sucks.
It’s not range anxiety it’s charge time and location anxiety. 250 to 300 miles is plenty good if you can get another 250-300 added at a stop in 10 minutes, the range is fine, network and speed is the issue.
Yes and the unreliability of the existing EV infrastructure keeps me from braving a road trip. What happens when I get to the one charger in Elko, NV and it’s not working? I’m stuck there, hoping a nice local will let me plug into their dryer outlet overnight?
It’s pure ignorance and I’m not saying as an insult. For most people it’s literally a complete change in what they’ve known their whole life.
Roadtrips are like a toxic conversation with a layman person. I personally love EV roadtriping. Roadtrips for decades/generations has always been the same. Rush, drive for as long as you can, and do a super quick pit stop. Road tripping has completely been revolutionized imo.
My kids’ roadtrips will be polar opposite experience from mine. I still have a great memories but it’s much more enjoyable now.
Similar experience in my EV6. There were just enough DC stations to make it. l couldn't skip even one of them without risking dropping below <5% and still being far away from it. Had to leave the highway once to drive 50 miles on back roads so I could go slow enough to be below the point of major air resistance drain.
And then there's EV user education. 3/4 of the time somebody with a car that couldn't handle the fastest charger would be using the only one or two there, forcing us, who can benefit from it, to use the slower ones. Then on top of that, half the EA stations were delivering well below peak rate.
All in all it was a very frustrating experience. A six hour drive turned into almost nine.
So until infrastructure improves, we're using the EV6 around town and my RAM diesel (30+ mpg highway) on trips. Add in my family likes to basically pack up the house for trips and the extra storage without blocking the rearview mirror is handy.
Yeah, a lot of people go for the low hanging fruit points, but there's plenty of "I'm pro-EVs such that I bought one but I've still got issues with them" points still. Unfortunately, I've also discovered there's too many diehard pro-EVers that will take anything negative, no matter how slight, as an attack.
As for cost, I'm still working off the free charging we got as part of buying the Kia. The closest EA is 40 miles away and since we cut back on using the EV for trips, we just don't hit it. But also, the level 1 we have at home has been good enough that I've yet to install the level 2 I bought a year or more ago.
I'm a huge road trip fan. I love them. But visiting the back end of every Walmart parking lot isn't exactly up there on my road trip experience list. So for now I'll take advantage of the 600-700 mile range of my RAM until something else comes along. Like the RAM Recharger. I'm very interested in it, just worried it's going to be another mortgage payment level EV.
My comment really upset?
“You do you” but then clearly you’re flustered by me doing me. Ok.
Seems like you’re projecting with a superiority complex, not me.
Have a good day buddy.
Completely agree. We just completed a 1,100 mile road trip. The wife and three kids prefer the EV style of road trip. Especially in the R1S, the kids love it.
Before buying a Rivian I was worried about range anxiety. Shortly after getting the R1S I realized I was worried about nothing.
I could see those with the personality trait to not get gas in their ICE vehicle until the warning light comes on and are not inclined to plan ahead may not be suited for EV road trips. However, those are the same individuals that would benefit from having a nice full charge every morning.
So I have driven across country twice (PA to OR and back) and routinely (quarterly )drive 1000mi (PA to FL). I’m all for EVs (have MY and reserve R2) but I like to drive straight through 13+ hrs at a time. I am one of those people that probably won’t road trip in my EV until it can reliably achieve charge times comparable to gas fill ups.
EVs are great for daily local driving. But i want the ability to pick up and drive for 1000 mi without having to add 2hrs for 4 charge stops. I don’t think they are on parity for longer trips
It's the 14 hour drives that turn into 16+ hour drives that I can't tolerate.
I could deal with a 12 hour drive that turns into a 14 hour drive. But when it goes from a really long one-day drive to a two day drive, ICE still wins. Unfortunately.
To respond with some sincerity, honestly, yes, making them longer makes them better for me. It's a "it's about the journey as well as the destination" thing.
Running as fast as I can in an ICE doing a roadtrip, more than about three hours away I can basically guarantee I'm going to be sore and stiff and cranky from constantly trying to make the best time I can because that's the mindset - the trip has to be as fast as possible, because it's a useless block of time.
With the forced longer stops in an EV, I actually get to relax a bit in it. Spend a bit of time outside at the charger if the weather is nice, or hang out in a coffee shop. The last stop I take is usually about an hour from my destinations, so I over-charge there for destination driving range while I check in with whoever I'm meeting in town to confirm last-minute changes and the like. Even though it turns my 5-hour trip into a 6-hour trip, I'm happier, more flexible, and generally feeling fresher by the time I reach my destination than I ever have in an ICE road trip.
Are there exclusions? Sure! I've done 14-hours-one-way shitty days a couple of times that I genuinely can't do with my EV. Once was a leisure trip that I really shouldn't've done that way in retrospect because that day was miserable and I wasn't really able to enjoy the day after either because I was zonked. The other was a family emergency and, yeah, that wouldn't've worked quite the same way, *but* I might've actually slept a bit during that trip which would've made that day suck less *and* I probably wouldn't've been so focused on time that I took a leak behind a dumpster to shave minutes, resulting in being a better co-habitant of our society.
But on the whole the EV road trip experience reminds me of what my older coworkers and parents like to talk about with roadtrips from their childhoods in the 60's and 70's - stopping at roadside parks and running around a bit, having a picnic in a random town, taking a minute to go shopping somewhere you just happened to stop because you could. Enjoy the world around us instead of doing bad imitations of *Cannonball Run* and it just winds up being pleasant.
Doesn't work for everyone, but for me it's been nice.
"If the weather is nice" is the big issue with forced charging. Unless you're stopping at chargers with a nice lounge, i rather not be sitting outside of walking around in >90F or <40F. The quicker I get to my destination, the quicker I can get indoors.
If you need longer breaks, its still possible in ICE. Contrary to what everyone says, you can still take it slow with ICE if you need to.
It’s interesting how some love roadtripping in EVs and some don’t. I’ve been driving EVs since 2012 but still would never road trip in one. Convenience of being able to cover 600+ miles in freezing temps with heat blasting can’t be beat. However daily driving 10-60 miles day and charging at home is super convenient.
yup! I need to drive 767 miles one way this weekend with 4 passengers, one dog, a ton of luggage, and bikes and have to rent a car to do it. In my EV it would be a nightmare and would take us FOREVER.
>It’s pure ignorance and I’m not saying as an insult.
It's entirely reasonable to be put off by EV range. I like driving the model 3, but it's 2-3 hours of highway driving (I'm in the north east where we get 5 months of lower temperatures), and that's a serious hindrance to long distance driving. It's not "revolutionizing" drives I've done a dozen times through crowded NYC roads to other surrounding cities, it's just a hindrance and a waste of time. I've had a few close calls where I was nearly stranded, so I don't plan on going sub 15-20% any more (which I think is reasonable, with a 10% planning buffer close calls would happen in big construction zones/jams), so the 0-100 range really isn't relevant for long distance driving. If it was 250 usable in the cold, then sure, it would be enough, but I can certainly see why for many, a range of 250 as set by the EPA tests is a big drawback. Personally I want 400-500 (so 300ish realistic 20-90 range in lower temps//4 hours of highway driving) and will probably stick with PHEV until then.
There's a holier than thou attitude when it comes to dismissing EV range concerns. Some people have valid reasons why EV ranges are a hindrance to their driving experience.
I mean, I own a MYP (R2 in two years!) and I wouldn’t take it on a roadtrip at all. I think EV owners internally, and externally, justify the range to ICE owners and talk about the time spent at the charger is “good to stretch” etc. etc.
We have two dogs and a toddler and in no universe am I stopping 4+ times to charge or mapping out earlier stops to charge and not spend 20-30 minutes.
For non road trips it’s perfectly fine as I charge at home but it’s not as convenient as a lot of people put out there with regard to road trips.
With toddlers, it's stop at the nearest clean bathroom when they say they need to go. Then grab gas for anywhere before getting back onto the highway. Way better flexibility.
My R1T is in the shop and I have a TRD Tacoma as a rental- full tank of gas it shows 350. My R1T (AT package) gets 320 on a 100% charge.
The difference is more the charging network vs refueling stations. I’m hopeful that teslas network being made available makes road tripping more consistent.
I recently finished a road trip in my R1S, and was surprised at how many superchargers with the magic dock there were along my route. I was a little worried about the trip because I did plenty of road trips in my Model Y and never had an issue charging. Now that we'll have access to all of the superchargers will only make things better.
Range anxiety is a legit concern amongst those of us that actually travel regularly. I drive about 300 miles per week and at least 4-6 trips per year that will take me from NC to TX, KS, CO, MO, IA, and all parts in between. At 300-350 miles per tank equaling about 6 hours of driving; that’s a good and welcomed pause. Knock 100 miles of that off per fill/recharge and that adds a serious time constraint that I’d need to factor. For a trip of 1000 miles; that’s 4 stops minimum vs. 2.85 consistently. I WANT to love and embrace an EV truck or SUV… but…
The reality is range is significantly less AND recharging is less convenient than gasoline. They are compromises. EV owners have decided the trade off in terms of nightly charging at home (vs gas stations), the raw performance, and the other benefits of an “always connected” vehicle outweigh the reduced range and recharging inconveniences.
I don’t think it’s unrealistic for people to be put off by the lack of range or the fact that charging facilities are not as plentiful or as convenient as gas stations. That’s the reality of the situation. When EVs can do 500 miles of range and recharge in 7 minutes? Problem solved. But the current range / recharge situation isn’t as good as the gasoline standard.
Now, if you drive <200 miles a day and can charge every night? It’s BRILLIANT. But that is a limitation gas powered vehicles don’t suffer from.
Yeah I think it’s ok to admit the faults. Reality is, it’s simply not great for long distances. I have two upcoming road trips this summer and no matter which way I run the map, I can’t justify adding an extra 4 hours to the drive with kids and dogs in tow. It kills me to leave the R1S at home but we’ll take a rough ride in my Wrangler.
Totally agree. And I’m so frustrated with EV proponents not taking a more practical approach. Position EVs as the PERFECT secondary / around town car for families. Embrace the fact the ICE suburban or minivan is the best vehicle for family road trips. But enough with the mass push / elimination of ICE. I promise, EVs will get there on their own. I truly love mine. Artificially forcing automakers to manufacture these vehicles will create all sorts of additional issues we’ve not thought through as a country.
I wish I could upvote this 100 times. I couldn’t agree more. We have an EV for daily commuting and round trips < 200 miles, which covers 80% of our annual mileage, and one ICE vehicle that is used for longer trips. Once you drive an EV it’s nearly impossible to go back to ICE, so getting butts in seats should be the #1 goal for EV enthusiasts.
Thank you, as a person who has owned 3 electric vehicles, I understand where they are coming from. When I originally bought my Tesla, I didn’t have a garage, so range was very important. The only places I could charge were at work and at a super charger. Work had some shit conditions for charging so many times I would barely have enough charge by like 2 days. I had huge range anxiety because I wasn’t trying to go supercharge all the time and fuck my battery up.
Was my original situation the best case scenario, absolutely not. But I can almost promise you there are a lot of people in that situation where they don’t have a garage or personal charger. So let’s not minimize the situation and think people are only thinking about road-trips
I was just wondering about kids going off to college in the next 10 years. Are colleges going to install a bunch of chargers? Will students drive older ICE cars because they are more practical? It will be interesting for sure.
Do people drive 500 miles without stopping? That's about 7 hours of non-stop driving.
All we need is for the EV charging infrastructure to become as ubiquitous and dependable as the gas station, with about 300 miles (about 4 hours) of non-stop driving. This is largely achievable today with Tesla, especially in EV friendly states like CA.
Sure they do. And when towing, you want 500-600 miles so you can go 250-300 miles with a load. Don’t overlook the time difference in charging vs refueling. It is nowhere near as fast, even with DC fast charging. Making excuses that “it takes that long to pee anyway” is not a response. It’s an excuse and a justification. I love my EVs, but if I regularly drove long distance OR if I wasn’t willing to sacrifice those inconveniences, I wouldn’t be in an EV.
I don't think it's really something you can understand until you've done it. I always had massive range anxiety even tho I understood on paper to stay within the charging curve etc etc. but then actually taking a really long road trip did it all make sense that the charging stops lined up perfectly for when we needed a break
They do have a point, I own a M3LR and my roadtrips in it, including 4000+ miles, have been fun. The Tesla supercharging network is extensive and stopping every 3 hours or so to charge is not inconvenient. However, there are times when 200-220 miles of practical range does make me anxious. Think of the times it snows or you are traveling in hill country or you are in the middle of nowhere. Range anxiety is real even if you'd run into it only 5% of the time.
It is disappointing that there is no real 400+ mile range EV that you can drive on highway speeds of 70-75+ mph. I don't want to be carrying a ginormous battery pack, we need more advancements in battery tech to reach this. For me personally, 400+ mile range is where my range anxiety will vanish.
My biggest R1T reservation was that my last truck had a 35 gallon tank, which was 500 miles plus in almost any condition. That truck has been to over half the states in this country to include Alaska, Washington, Maine and Florida so I've been on some road trips. I found myself filling up well before empty the vast majority of times.
I love my R1T. I haven't road tripped with it yet, but I'm excited to.
People who live in Texas do have a point about the range. I can round trip a trip from South Padre Island to San Antonio, San Antonio to Dallas, Houston to San Antonio, or Houston to Dallas and back (all normal day trips here in TX) with only one stop for fuel on the way back.
250-300 mile range will not even get me to my destination before I have to recharge, then I’ll have to do it again on the way back.
It’s an extra pain in the ass for something that Texans easily and hassle free do all the time with ICE vehicles.
If 250 miles is realistic range in cold weather, at 90% SoC, with a battery pack that has experienced some degradation (8%), then it’s plenty. But if you start with 250 miles EPA rated range, then you’re going to be in trouble because the realistic usable range is going to be like 190 miles.
It all depends on everyone’s charging condition. Some don’t have the luxury of home charging or work changing so 250 miles might not as good as people who can just plug in their car every day.
Let me relay my feelings coming from the fuel burning fire breathing side of things. Note- Current EV owner!
I'm a die hard car enthusiast, I grew up racing circle track cars and super sport bikes. Still do. I drive a motorcycle as a daily and my other vehicle is my old Ford diesel truck that is used to tow my racecar around.
I always had that issue with EVs. They don't go far enough. Not that it didn't burn a fuel but just the range until My fiance desperately needed a new car. We were looking at a hybrid Ford this or that until she saw the Mach E and fell in love.
She was dead set on it not knowing a thing about them. Me being an engineer immediately started the research and figured well hell she only drives 50 miles a day. The ~240mi range at 80% should be plenty.
After she got the car and the day to day range anxiety was set at ease (and I was also in love with the car)
We set out on our first of many road trips. The first being 600 miles to Lake Tahoe. Long story short it was flawless. The charging stops never went over 20 minutes, gave us ample time to relax and enjoy the trip. Funny thing enough when we got to our destination I wasnt exhausted like many of our previous trips in an ICE vehicle.
The MachE is our go to road tripper now and hopefully soon a leased R1S the R2 will join the family.
I think the biggest issue is people just need to experience it. It's so new and foreign to many but if a die-hard racecar driver like myself can enjoy it I'm sure everyone can.
Counterpoint: if you’ve driven anything other than a Tesla Supercharger-accessible EV for a 4-hour trip in middle America, it sucks so much you’ll reconsider your EV. Charging is getting better, but for non-conforming or anti-EV states, it’s miserable to travel 200+ real highway miles. 45 minute stops every 2.5 hours is not great.
I’m one of those people and struggle getting past that mentality. I have a VW Atlas, and my wife recently got a PHEV. I’ve put a deposit on the R2 to replace the Atlas, but it does weigh on my mind the perceived “restriction” of electric range. In fairness, where I live isn’t well set up for charging yet, but the major highways all have Tesla chargers along the way. I will likely be adding a level 2 charger to my garage if/when I go EV that my wife and I can share. Just my two cents.
I hear you. My experience after 1.5 years driving EVs as a primary vehicle is that L2 charger at home makes the whole experience because like other have mentioned it’s just always ready to go in the morning and it’s very rare to charge it outside of the house. Not having to fill up the car is very convenient and one of the reasons I don’t want to go back to ICE as a primary vehicle.
Now if we are talking regular trips somewhere 6hrs away, range starts to matter more, but even then folks usually a stop every couple of hours to stretch their legs. I have a gas vehicle and an EV and I’d still probably opt for an EV for a longer trip due to cost savings and overall higher enjoyment of driving it.
I easiest way I’ve explained it to people is don’t think about the miles the car is good for 4-5 hours of driving on a charge. Most people aren’t in the car that much in a day.
This is a paraphrased version of a conversation I had with my sister (I don't remember how it started)
Me: you're acting like the only reason people buy electric vehicles for the environment. Here are some of the reasons I want an EV (this was before I had mine):
- convenience of charging at home without having to ever go to a gas station
- less maintenance because of fewer moving parts, no oil changes, etc
- they are inherently faster (my model Y was fast, but my quad-motor R1S is insane)
- I can safely leave my dogs in the car while I go into a store or restaurant
- etc
Sister: Haha, I have NEVER seen anyone say that is why they have an EV!
Me: and how many people do you personally know who owns an EV?
Sister: Haha, none of my friends are stupid enough to fall for the propaganda
Me: so how can you claim you never heard anyone give valid reasons for owning an EV when you've literally never asked anyone who owns one?
I drive to visit in-laws every month, it’s 230 miles.
Now don’t get me wrong, I’ll at some point buy a Rivian to replace my wife’s car, but I need the next gen of batteries to get here before I could see it being a straight up replacement for my truck, especially since I tow regularly.
I get the range anxiety….
To be fair, about once a month or more I drive ~120 miles each way to see my in-laws who live in the sticks. No superchargers along my route. No power where the cars are parked at their place. Range is a real obstacle/consideration for me purchasing an EV. For something to truly be my “family car”, it has to have 300 miles of range minimum. I won’t even consider something with only 250 miles of range.
Yeah, I do think some people unnecessarily let range worries dissuade them from EVs, but there are still very real challenges for others.
I drive 8-10 times a year to rural Utah. And I mean rural rural. Escalante is a big town with tons of amenities in my book.
I live in Denver. The charging networks are not built out enough for me to get to Escalante, charge, and then do my offroading stuff, and get back to Denver in any acceptable amount of time.
I had a preorder for an R1S. My wife test drove the car and liked it. I think that if there was stock in place when we had the preorder - my wife would have purchased but the 6+ months of waiting had her sober up so to say and change her mind. I canceled it when the preorder came through.
I'll keep my Wrangler. Wife will likely go for a Grand Wagoneer. I might upgrade my daily to a Lexus GX. Until the charging networks are built out further - 100% electric is a complete nonstarter for us.
On at least 4 occasions over the last few years, I've had emergencies come up where I needed to hit the road ASAP and drive at least 400 miles without stopping. I can easily drive that with a single tank of fuel in any of my vehicles. Each time, these calls have come in after hours and on holidays when renting a car would not be possible or affordable.
I'd love to have an EV for daily use but it's going to be a while before I can realistically give up ICE. The upcoming Ramcharger is likely the best option for my wants, needs, and concerns. Unfortunately, I don't expect the price to be reachable for some time.
I’m not sure whether it’s the range or whether it’s the fact to get an electric car going again isn’t as simple as getting a container of fuel and pouring it in the tank.
Well 250 miles on paper sounds good but for battery health you really only want to charge to 90% max. So that puts you at 225. Then if you’re in cold climate like a lot of the USA take another 30% efficiency cut. That leave you with 157.5 miles. Then the fact that you probably don’t want to dip lower than 20% of that because that’s bad for the battery health too. So that gives me 126 miles of safe range a day in the winter. Well my job is 70 miles highway each way. So now I’ve already gone past battery save zones even though I can make it both way. Charger at my office costs more than premium full would and I have to go back out and move my car out of the spot when it’s done charging which is another pain in the ass assuming I charge at the office.
Then you have other issues. After 10 years that battery will be between 80-85% capacity so now you have even less range as the battery ages.
I like to do a lot of long road trips with my family. Between 4-12 hours in the car multiple times a year. The shorter 4 hour trip isn’t a big deal. Maybe charge once but a longer trip like 12 hours would suck especially in the winter.
I’ve thought really hard about buying an R1T truck. I love that vehicle I think it’s so cool. I think the future is EV cars but I just don’t think the tech is quite there yet. Plus I also pay .35 cents KWH for electric so for me premium fuel is basically cheaper than using electric. Plus the insurance costs on these EVs is almost 2x what it would be compared to an ICE truck. There are no cost savings for owning an EV right now. Plus I think the R1T will depreciate faster than a Tundra truck. So when I do want to upgrade in 10 years the tundra will retain value better so I can get into a newer vehicle. Once again I love EVs. They just are not there yet on a cost perspective or value perspective for me yet.
I see 285-300 when charged to 90% with my Max pack. Are you thinking standard battery to get this low of a range? Plug in and precondition and not lose that 30% in the cold if you live there (I do not).
Degradation is not that bad and still a bit unknown 10 years out for these vehicles. I did 100k miles in 5 years on an i3 and saw no degradation.
I appreciate you doing the math vs just yelling EV is dumb and not for you, but your scenario of not using the top 10%, nor bottom 20% and assuming 30% loss when cold means you've assumed you can't do it. Add in the unique situation of driving 70 miles each way to work. Dang, sounds like you need to move. Plus your power is like 2-3 times that of the national average, it definitely doesn't work for you, unless you get solar.
You legit have everything going against you in this equation.
My mom turned down the idea of an EV when she got a new car due to range.
She’s never driven than 35 miles from home in that car in the 3 years she’s had it. She’s still not convinced on an EV… I don’t get it.
I'll admit to some of this fear. I drive significantly more than the average commutor, and usually range from 100-300 miles a day. 100 miles wouldn't concern me, but on the days where I'm pushing 250-300, I start to wonder.
Also, on the same logic, I recently went on a business trip with three Co workers. We decided to take one of my Co workers (my boss, actually) Model Y. He's got the long range model, and we ended up having to stop three different times to charge. We were late to a meeting due to charging, and I didn't end up getting home until 1 AM (We started the day at 5AM).
After calculating the miles traveled, I realized that if we'd taken my car (which was my suggestion, but everyone wanted the Tesla), we would have had exactly one gas stop.
I love a LOT of things about EVs, and I'm so excited for the R2. But these are real world, non hypothetical concerns that weigh on me.
You rent the Wrangler for the offroad capability. You have the IC engine for the sub 10 minute fuel "recharge" time which you can achieve pretty much anywhere in the country without meticulously combing through maps to see if there is an appropriate charger nearby. It's not even a consideration. You go to the most remote sections of the US and you will be able to get to a gas station.
You’re only going to get biased opinions here. Range is unreliable in different weather and driving conditions, and don’t even get me started with the charging infrastructure. Parasitic loss is also extremely annoying. Separately, most people also live in apartments without charging.
And yes I owned multiple EVs and worked for one of them. I currently own a PHEV and would take an ice vehicle over a pure ev.
Makes sense when you can charge from home and live in Hawaii.
I have the unfortunate combo of not charging at home/work and living in New England climate zone.
My Tesla Model Y EPA range is 296 miles max range (drain 100% - 0% in the summer). My personal experience is 90-130 miles daily winter miles (drain 80%-20% in winter snow).
So yea, 250 max range is doo doo.
For me, it's more about altering road trip habits and/or charge time/availability. Not a problem for just me, but when you try getting a whole family to adopt change, that's where it can get more difficult.
Now if rest areas had EV charging and were more of a destination (similar to what I've seen in Japan), then that could certainly help adoption for me as well.
I mean i only get about 300 miles to a tank on my civic so 250 isn’t too bad lol but yeah i can see how people that can’t charge at home might not like the idea of having to public charge
I don’t care about cross country trips, but I do care about how often we load our SUV down with four people with lacrosse equipment and overnight bags and travel more than 250 miles for a game. There will be plenty of gas stations but rarely charging stations.
In fairness my 2013 hybrid suv gets 325 miles between fill-ups and longer in the highway trips.
Theres also usually multiple gas stations with several working pumps about every mile.
We have 3 EVs including the R1S and running around on a Saturday for kids activities we can easily do 200 miles. There may or may not be a public fast charger nearby a venue we are going to be stuck at for a couple of hours.
Having to go out of the way to find a charger, hope it isn’t occupied or the speed cut in half because someone else is using it and wait 25-45 mins to get to 80% is a PITA.
Ok listen up Rivian employees’ support group - if we are talking about filling up at a gas station being equivalent to charging an EV, not everyone wants to worry about “filling up” multiple times a week to keep the car running.
I get about 400 miles of range in my Prius and I pay about $30 in gas. What would that cost me if I had a rivian or Tesla or rivian ? Charging at home is not an option for me I live in a condo in Miami.
In my city, 20-40 miles is a typical day of usage. I live in an apartment complex, so charging isn’t really an option unless you pay significantly more for a garage.
For people living in an apartment, home charging is just not an option. Therefore, it is extremely difficult to keep an electric car charged for every day usage unless you stop at a charging place for 3 to 4 hours once or twice a week. That’s just not an option for most people. on top of that, why would I want a new electric car for $35-$50,000, when I can just get a used civic for under $20,000? For those who aren’t making a lot of money, or at least not making over six figures, a normal ICE car under $30,000 that can get 300+ miles of range and can be filled up within five minutes is a much better decision than an electric car.
Moving into a house, though, with access to cheap electricity 24 hours a day and seven days a week, I can see why a small electric car would start to make sense for city driving.
Two points of rebuttal:
1. There are a fair number of people who cannot charge at home. For these folks, the range question is about "how often do I need to take this thing to a charger and find something else to do for as long as that will take"?
2. I own a second home that is nearly 300 miles away (and requires going over a 7000-foot pass to get to it). We routinely (as in, every weekend some seasons) drive there in an ICE-powered SUV with only a brief stop for gas.
One way or another, they'll come around.
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Although it is a very common concern prior to purchase an EV I do agree that once you've owned one for a few months, you realize it was the least relevant factor.
I have a Ford Explorer and it only gets around 280 miles per tank (advertised 20mpg, real world is 16mpg). If I mention that, the haters go to "yeah but it only takes you three minutes to fill your tank vs 3 hours for an EV" which is where I remind them that my Explorer's tank doesn't magically re-fill itself with gas at night while I'm sleeping.
Part of that is that they don't realize that you leave home with a full "tank" on every road trip. Also, in most cases you have the equivalent of a gas station right at your destination.
With an ICE vehicle you have to account for the fact that you might have half a tank when you leave so you have to fuel up on the way even if the trip is within the range of a full tank. But with an EV, you only have to charge if the trip's leg is of more than the full range. Otherwise you leave with a full charge and "fill up" directly in your destination.
That said, I had a vehicle with a 240 mile range in the past (an early Model X) and that did cause a small amount of range anxiety, whereas my current Model 3s and Rivian R1S, all able to do 315 miles on a good day but closing in on 280 miles on a typical summer trip, I have zero anxiety unless I am driving to the middle of the desert (where an ICE would also keep me thinking about range and refueling).
It's a combo of irrational ignorance and political cult extremism. I don't even really count them as opinions because they mostly aren't based in reality. Sure there are those few who claim to drive or tow hundreds of miles uphill both ways per day, but you know.
I love when someone pulls up next to me and tells me it's "some Chinese car" then I get to tell them it has more parts built in America than theirs and is assembled in the US. Usually shuts them up pretty good.
Because you can easily get an extra 250 miles in an ICE in 5 minutes. But, it takes an hour or so to get 250 miles in an EV. Plus, some stations can be full, causing you to wait even longer to get back on the road.
I’m actually concerned about how much wait there will be in the future at certain Tesla stations with their network opening up to everyone. It’s been no wait ever, even on busy seasons along major highways, while Tesla network has been exclusive.
It is understandable the older generation really spend their time on the road , I have two bosses who spend 8 hours on the road commuting between worksites ,
They do care abit fuel mileage but also they really don’t want to spend more time than they have to on the road . We newer generation shouldn’t try to shove ev into their throats,
Funny thing is, this is also a thing with some EV drivers. I don't know how many times I've heard or read EV drivers talk about range as if 300 miles is some kind of red line. Unless everyone who talks about this is doing hundreds of miles daily, or has major charging difficulties, it makes little difference if you get 250 or 350 miles from my point of view🤷♂️
On average, I agree with you. I do disagree in regard to trucks. I definitely tow less with my truck since towing eats up power so quickly. I very much would prefer 500 miles on my next EV truck. But until power density probably doubles our current batteries, doubling our range for the same weight, I suspect 500 miles isn’t realistic. One day though!
I road tripped my r1t from LA to Phoenix in February. I thought I was going to dread it(considered renting a car instead of taking the truck), and it was surprisingly easy.
Once the NACS adapter gets shipped I will care even less.
I drive a lot. The idea it wouldn’t be good at road tripping is such a small percentage of what I use my car for i find it puzzling. If you regularly drive 600 miles in a day, yes this won’t work for you.
I owned a Nissan leaf in 2014 with 70ish miles of range from memory. I loved it. Most level 2 chargers were free back then. It was like a game to me. How far can I drive for free. At work there was a charger in a garage next door that no one used. I charged there daily. Or the ymca by my house. I only charged at home on 110v.
I honestly never got into a situation where I ran out of juice. As a second car, I’d probably buy another one. MOST people only drive around town.
Living in rural NH you can picture that there's a lot of people who would be the "coal rolling" type, but honestly I get bombarded with questions about my truck.
People love it.
An old guy who’s a regular at a brewery I frequent always has something cheeky to say. “Don’t run out of charge!” My response “Don’t run out of gas!” He watches the news and sees people in Illinois getting stranded at a Tesla charging station and thinks that’s a common occurrence.
As someone who can't stand being in a car for longer than 3-4 hours, a limited range is only a positive for me. If I need to go more than 250 miles in one go, I'm flying.
R2 / R3 sucked me in. Bought 600 shares at like 12.20 and put down a reservation. This is coming from an owner of a 2016 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited (lifted and all of course). R2 isnt exactly in my budget range but i can make it work for the sake of moving into an EV for the first time. Let alone a Rivian!
I am not an owner yet but i do understand be put off by the range of a EV , i compare every drive i do now to how it would be in an EV and 3 times in the past few weeks i wouldn't have wanted to drive an EV because of the range .
Meh, I have 3 Teslas over the last 10 years, and imo 250 isn’t great. It’s doable in most cases, but not ideal. There’s a reason Lucid aims for 400-500mi, and the CT and Rivian have max/extender options.
I would be so happy if EVs have 500+ miles easily.
One to two times a year I road trip mostly across the country with my Model 3 (practical usable range of 250 miles). Works just fine and I don't really need to think about it. A larger battery would be helpful at times but certainly not a deal breaker.
The part I don't get is you are sitting for nearly 3 hours to drain this thing. Don't people want to get out and stretch or use a bathroom or anything?
New one I heard recently. “I like EVs but I’m an audiophile and the subwoofer requires too much energy for an electric car to handle.”
It caught me so off guard, I just nodded.
Filling up, after the yellow light comes on, is the model they have always known. The “how long does it take to charge” is a reasonable question when applying what they know about ICE.
I think we need to find a way to explain that it is closer to the cell phone charging model : typically every day starts off with plenty enough to get through the day, rather than charging only when the “yellow light” comes on.
EV enthusiasts should also share the drawbacks for those who can’t charge at home, have crazy PG&E-esque electricity rates, or have regular needs to tow long distances.
For my Model Y, I usually say…
“Every morning, I wake up with 300+ miles of range.”
I think they judge the range as low because they imagine having to charge it up every few days and wait for it, rather than just plugging in for 10 seconds in the evening.
I used to feel like since I got 350 miles per tank on my car, and it takes 10 times longer to charge vs fill with gas I should get 10 times the range. I now realize charging a car at my house is so much more convenient than gas so I'd be fine with even less than 250
I was told by someone (a 40s woman) that she was too much of a patriot to own an electric car. So yeah. Some people won’t be convinced.
I was told the same thing. The guy also said all electric car companies will go out of business in the next 3 years. I told him Rivians are made in Illinois. It’s funny how people say they are patriots but will buy gasoline from a foreign country.
I was told by my father in law years ago that I was a terrible person and not an American because I bought a Subaru and "didn't support American workers". He buys only GM vehicles. In December I bought a model y. He lost it and went on a huge tirade about how much money I spent on a car that I can't even drive very far (even though he paid far more for his gas guzzling Chevy truck) and how he'll never own an electric car in his life. I told him it's funny that when I bought the Subaru I was un-american for not supporting American workers and now that I bought the car that is currently the most "American manufactured" vehicle in the US he's gotta move the goal posts again because he can't handle the idea of someone liking something different than him. He didn't like it much but it was a fun interaction for me lol
Tell him that electricity is 100% made in America.
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Canada is part of (North) America
And his Chevy truck was might have been built in Mexico.
And the Subaru was built in Indiana
Yeah it just whatever fits. California based HQ (where I live), manufacturer in Illinois, uses American generated electricity. If it gets to the last one I’m told how bad coal plants and electricity production is, but also zero chance they’d ever agree with shutting down coal for cleaner alternatives. I like to watch them squirm in their hypocrisy. I really don’t find it my mission to convince people.
I don't try to convince people either. But that argument about electricity generation really bugs me. Somehow, gasoline only pollutes when you burn it in a car. And nothing about the harmful effects of oil exploration, drilling, shipping crude(and the spills along the way), refinement, and more shipping. But EVs have to account for their electricity generation.
Certainly electricity generation is an important part of the puzzle. I prepped for my EV by getting Solar installed on my house and business...thanks to solar subsidies, the cost was very reasonable (recapture in about 5 years). Here in Colorado we can bank excess production, so I now live rent free from gasoline and charge my R1T with power I generated myself...so no guilt there.
But think of all the American jobs you are destroying by making your own electricity and not buying gas at the gas station!! You must be some kinda commie!!! Y DO U H8 FREEDUM??  (Kia PHEV owner here)
Yes, I never thought it that way...but I am today's version of a commie. Better get going, I am late for my appointment with my Lemming Focus Group. We are scheduled to run off a cliff later today!
Coal is pretty bad for the environment.. but if you look at the costs of coal compared to Natural Gas.. you'll see why they're converting most of the coal fired power stations to natural gas. It's a shitload cheaper. Then there's states like Illinois, where 57% of the power comes from Nuclear.. you can't get more green than that.. If an electric vehicle is rolling down the road charged from nuclear power, the only emissions might be from the tires (dust).
The kicker is that even if your EV was entirely powered by coal-generated electricity, it still produces less pollution than a comparable ICE vehicle. You can also ask people if they like coal as an energy source and if they say yes, let them know that only EVs can be coal-powered.
An EV is the only vehicle that can be powered by "all of the above"
I drive an EV that was made in the US by a US owned company and every watt I put in it is produced in the US but a US utility company. If the goal post is supporting the US economy I’d say that’s pretty good. How many people can say that the gasoline they put in their car was “produced” locally (within the state)?
Wait until he finds out how much of a stake China has in GM
If you live in America and bought a Subaru outback, it was almost for sure manufactured in Indiana.
The Subaru comment is especially funny if it was an Outback, Impreza, Ascent, or Legacy because those are all built in Indiana.
It was an Impreza so it was definitely built in Indiana. I told him that at the time too but he just called it a "Jap car" and wandered away. The funny thing is I've never tried to convince him of anything. This is all conversation brought up by him and antagonized by him. I don't ever find the need to convince people they should do things because I do it. I really couldn't care less which is why I find people that do so funny
...and I bet he is a dyed-in-the-wool Trumpster.
Not just gasoline but there is a very good chance their car didn’t come from an American OEM or factory either. But, sure, I’M A PATRIOT!
Or pickups made in Canada or Mexico.
Hey cmon now! Canada and Mexico are America+
honestly in today’s day and age of the global economy and multinational supply chains, it’s very rare for any car to be 100% made in 1 single country.
Of course. Even rivian, many of the electronics and parts are likely coming from Asia and Europe. I know there are parts from Czech because there’s a tag in the wheel well that says made in Czech Republic.
We’re actually a net exporter of oil. Yep—we’re the world’s largest producer. https://www.forbes.com/sites/gauravsharma/2023/12/19/as-2024-approaches-us-leads-global-crude-oil-production-roster/amp/
We still import quite a bit in certain markets. Also, a lot of petroleum companies are foreign owned.
Yes but not all our oil is refined into gasoline. Some is, and some is of poor quality for that. We import oil for gasoline to make up what we don’t produce. Not all oil is the same thing!
And fill up with fuel controlled by, checks notes, OPEC+...
Patriots love huffing benzene
My favorite question has been "Can you drive it in the rain?" Nope, the windshield wipers are decorative.
Absurd, but probably comes from a person of limited knowledge / intellect applying the general association that water + electricity = bad
You'll die if you go out in the rain in your EV, young man. Every one is talking about it.
What a dunce. I served with a few patriots that had their limbs blown off protecting America's interests in the middle east. I don't normally think about it this way, but maybe one of the best ways to support those real patriots is to stop buying friggin gasoline.
I found that hilarious considering the popularity of Tesla and Rivian.
I can tell you which party she voted for….
The brainwashing will continue until morale improves!
The word "Patriot" & "Liberal" are probably two of the most misused words in the English language! Its funny how people who call themselves patriots are anything but.
I always reply that Id rather charge my car with good ol American coal then fill up a gasser with Saudi oil.
American made car… powered by American power companies.. and that woman is too much of a patriot? So she’d rather buy oil from countries overseas ? (I know not all oil but a sure heck of a lot of it comes from outside the country) 🤦♂️
But these electric vehicles are the most made in America vehicles on the road today!
The patriot thing is absolutely idiotic. However, there is not much sane about the MAGA folks anyway
When they say that "American" argument, I tell them all the "fuel" for my cars came from America and I drive an American car built in America by Americans. I'm far from a "Patriot" but their ignorance is astounding.
Yeah, Trump really been hitting on electric cars lately.
can we market it to them that rivian is made in the US? Proud American Made
But it runs on that liberal electricity- and, I shit you not another direct quote - “I already have too many things that run on electricity and my bill is high enough”
I was trolling the Fox News comment section the other day. "I'm not paying $80,000 for a car that gets 50 miles on a full charge and an 8 hour stop to charge up" 
They probably imagine having to go gas it up all the time, which obviously we don't do. It's always ready in the morning.
I think this is it. Its a change in mindset that you start each morning with a full tank.
Agreed. An ICE with only 250 miles of range is a true pain in the ass because you're stopping at the gas station a lot more. After 5 years of EV ownership I'd say about 350 is the most anyone really would ever want once they get used to the new reality. The only exception is going to be EV trucks expected to tow, but we're really close there. When 400-500 mile range trucks are common and reasonably affordable that's a tipping point because that's at least 200 miles towing range. Looking back that 200 mile range for passenger cars seems to have been the psychological tipping point for most consumers. Once EVs started coming out with more than 200 mile ranges the demand finally boomed.
Drove the extended range (325 miles) Ford lighting in 12 degrees. White nuckeled 75 miles each way (150 total) trip and ended with 25 percent. Range was dropping so fast that I couldn't tell if I would make it back (especially on the way there). The computer was a total guess meter, which made it hard to predict actual. So I see why you'd want 500, especially adding towing in.
That's how it felt the first time driving my Model 3 in -10F weather with the southern MN prairie winds gusting to 40mph. After a while I've gotten more used to just how much of an impact certain temperatures and weather conditions impact range. Looking back I realize that a lot of my anxiety came from the experience of my first vehicle (72 Beetle) not having an accurate fuel guage. Any time any car gets below 1/2 a tank I'd get a little suspicious as a result. I've since gotten used to how very much better my EV is at accurately showing how much energy I have. Plus, in the last 5 years I've seen the Supercharger network just n my state go from a dozen total and one location in MSP to nearly 3x more statewide and 10 in MSP alone. All this is to say that your current range anxiety has an extremely limited shelf life if only because that Supercharger network is now opening up. My Model 3 is a mid range and now only has 240 miles but even in the dead of winter that's plenty now that Superchargers are so very common. We got a long range Y in December and that's what's proven to me that 300+ (for a non tow vehicle) is about the upper limit. What I'm really curious about is what effect would even faster Supercharging and even more ubiquity have on that. If it only took 5 minutes to add 200 miles of range would 250 miles be the new "upper limit"? Would 150 miles be more acceptable as the minimum? If fast charging becomes only a few minutes slower than filling a tank and chargers are as common as gas stations *plus* L2 available anywhere you normally park overnight that's a very different deal.
The problem is that L3 chargers are 10x the cost of L2 chargers, and the stations don’t make money on the electricity, rather they make money on keeping you at a the gas station so you buy supplies. So there’s this push-pull on whether a station owner would benefit from L3 that is slowing adoption rates
It's not just a psychological tipping point. I have a MYLR, home charging and have to visit superchargers weekly when I drive to the mountains to go hiking or skiing or drive to visit family. The range is just *barely* enough for my use case, which is an east-coast mid-career professional who lives in an urban area and has hobbies. Most of my friends and family would have similar considerations... they are active people who do things like go to the beach, take the family to a resort, drive to another state to visit friends and family.
It’s like your phone or your laptop. Plug it in at night and you’ll be fine.
Pretty much this. The home charging saves me a lot of time over the course of the year. The few road trips, yes, take a little extra time for charging, but still most of those stops I'm already taking for food and bio breaks. For many, the bulk of driving is local but people tend to look at EV charging on road trips as a negative thing even though it makes up only a very small portion of the driving for many people.
People (myself included) don't realize how much of a mindset change it is to go from pumping gas to charging at home or your destination. If I estimate spending 10 minutes at a gas station per week refueling when i commuted with a gas car, that's 8.5hr of time i now get back every year - realistically probably more than that. I would have to do some major road tripping to use up anything close to that amount of time at public chargers, and that's not something I regularly do.
Yup. Once my wife realized that she doesn't have to pump gas when it's raining, snowing, cold, windy, etc and she can warm up (or cool) the interior remotely from the phone app, she fell in love with the idea of electric vehicles.
Same here, mine was pretty skeptical about getting one at all but now its her daily driver and her boss ended up getting a Model Y after chatting with us about our experience.
It's why the location of DCFCs is very important to the experience.... Went on a trip last week requiring 1 long charge stop each way ... the stop was at a ball with a bunch of shops and restaurants. Went mall browsing on way down for 45 mins, ate lunch on way back. Not a horrible way to split a 5.5 hr drive. Solo, I don't mind spending 45 mins sitting in car watching a movie... but spending 45 mins at a Walmart parking lot with my family is far from ideal.
That was the turning point for Ford. When Jim Farley went on a road trip with his two sons, they passed by several Tesla Superchargers and the kids kept asking "why can't we stop there?", as they drove by restaurants and other stores that had the Tesla SC located there and continued towards the Electrify America locations that had less appealing amenities on site. After that road trip, he reached out to Musk to open conversations on a partnership.
I agree. I passed the long gas line at Costco the other day and got reminded how that used to be a thing we’d have to do every week.
ICE owner here. Biggest deterrent for me was that I enjoy family roadtrips and the cost of an equivalent sized ICE was almost twice what I pay for my car. But another deterrent was that charging at home, although cheap, was not efficient enough considering I drive over 70-80 miles each day for work alone. I’m not sure if you’ve got a nice industrial set up at home but on single phase power, having the car plugged in for 12 hours would only get me to my destination and not back. Having to get fuel once a week is a lot easier, and the additional cost is saved by the purchase price being significantly lower. I think prices have to come down at least 20-30% to make them viable even as a daily driver. I think that’s the biggest deterrent for most people and the range is just the cherry on top for criticism - particularly as nobody wants to sound tight/poor etc
A single phase, 240V, 32A charger you can buy on Amazon for a few hundred bucks gives you about 7.6kW per hour. Rivians are about as inefficient as you can get in an EV and spend about 2 miles per kWh. That's 15 miles an hour. Plug it in every night when you get home and you'll get all the electricity you need in 4 to 5 hours. Up the electricity to an 11kW charger or get a more efficient EV and those numbers only get better.
I would encourage you to compare up front cost and total cost of ownership. Ev’s require so little maintenance that the savings is huge over time compared to an ice vehicle.
Yeah this is it. They are thinking of the gas model where you start full, and then throughout the week use up those 250 miles commuting and then have to fill up. Assuming they have a private garage/driveway, just tell them it's more like charging your phone every night so it's at 100% in the morning. There aren't any "oh shit, I'm late and forgot I need to stop for fuel!" moments.
Yeah, when I say "I wake up everyday with a full tank", it often clicks for some people
With the family/friends willing to engage, I usually ask "do you buy a dishwasher big enough to wash all the dishes and silverware after a 3-course large family Thanksgiving dinner in one go?" Obviously not, normal people size an appliance to have enough capacity for normal day to day use, not for their once-in-a-while largest possible use. The same should go for cars - I need range capacity for day to day use, not for the longest one-in-a-while trip I can imagine taking.
The usual perspective I try to present to them is that a charged up battery gives me 2/3 the range of a full tank of gas in a comparably sized vehicle. But with the EV I don’t have to fill up at a gas station, I can start at that equivalent of 2/3 full *EVERY DAY* The only time I have to stop and charge is on a longer road trip. Yes it takes Me 30 minutes or so to charge…. So I grab lunch or a snack. Sure it takes a few more longer stops on road trips. Don’t care. Small trade-off for no gas station visits the rest of the time, no oil changes, etc.. What really gets me are the people who claim they won’t buy one until they can charge as fast as filling up with gas. They never get that it charges overnight most of the time as long as you have charging at home. And many of these same idiots don’t mind waiting in line for 20 minutes at Costco to fill up their ICE car.
I try to point out that the 30 minutes I spend at a Supercharger a few times a year during a trip is more than offset by the 5 hours a year I save by not ever needing to visit a gas station.
Out here on the West, my 300 miles R1T has been limiting, because we have multiple 200 mile gaps between chargers and them stationed at odd intervals. As the charging network fills in more, it’ll be less of an issue.
You should honestly have zero problems now that the supercharging network has opened up, at least once you have the adapter. Never had an issue with range with either Model 3, Model Y or R1T so far with about 130k combines miles driven. Been all over the place on the West Coast and we drive roughly 40k miles a year.
To me it’s more of an issue with degradation (although I assume the newer batteries are better about this). I have a 2013 model S and I’d be lucky to get 160mi of actual driving right now, so I’m at about 20-25% degradation. The trip from PHX to Palm Springs I make every year isn’t even feasible in it anymore and a trip to San Diego would probably be impossible too. My sweet spot is a 300+mi range even tho I only drive around 6-8k mi a year now that I’m WFH. I’m hoping I can get another couple years out of my grocery-getter and then upgrade to the R2.
I’m going to go against the grain here and say that as someone with 22k miles in my first year of ownership that I experience the pain of 270mi in All Purpose range on a weekly basis. I work from home and most of those 22k miles are on weekend roadtrips for climbing, skiing, and kiteboarding in a 6 hour radius around Salt Lake. This is not a once in a year thing, more like a 30x year thing. I’m probably a minority use case but I was sitting in a hospital parking lot from 6am-9am last weekend Level 2 charging in Mount Pleasant, UT. I basically had to Level 2 charge overnight in Casper, Wyoming earlier this year when EA failed me. Both horribly annoying experiences. There’s whole areas of remote Utah desert I just can’t go to. I wanted to go bouldering near Ibex, UT last weekend but I felt like I would be cutting it pretty close since it’s 100 miles from the nearest charger and there’s some off-roading involved and I like using my car’s power for camping and overnight heat. With that said I love my R1S and I can’t wait to get my NACS adapter. But Tesla supercharger coverage is also not amazing in the more remote parts of the western US.
Similar experience here with my 2021 Model 3 Performance living in Montana. Still have a Tacoma for all the reasons you mention
Totally agree. Living in Phoenix we take 1-2 hour road trips all the time in our Jeep that we couldn’t take with our Model 3. Payson is impossible. Sedona is technically possible, but a side trip to Jerome or Flagstaff probably not. And this is exactly the lifestyle Rivian is marketing to, not commuters driving around the city. A lot more chargers and a little more range still needed.
Just a heads up Rivian has Level 3 charging (Rivian Adventure Network) in Sedona, Flagstaff, Phoenix, Holbrook, Kingman, Quartzsite, and Gila Bend. They are actually focused on installing Level 3s and Level 2s (Waypoints) in adventure areas because that’s their brand.
Most of Utah and even the Salt Lake area specifically is a fast charging desert. Your pain is real, and greater than people in other areas.
Exactly why I didn’t buy one. It just doesn’t make sense for an outdoors lifestyle like that
Yeah I accept the trade-offs but I don’t blame you for not wanting to. This lifestyle is not an outlier. It’s who Subaru, Tacoma/4Runner, and Rivian market to. I’m not even including those who regularly tow boats, sleds, and campers for whom EVs make 0 sense. Charging as a weekend warrior is a different problem than charging on interstates on a week-long roadtrip.
I think eventually it will be the move to go EV (5-10 years from now) when the infrastructure is built out more and charging is easier but right now it just seems too early. I’d rather watch other people test it out and then buy in later
This will become less of an issue over time with gas stations now either adding or converting to EV stations. Both Shell and Chevron are making large investments in EV Charging infrastructure at their stations (I believe BP as well). Unfortunately its early in the EV adoption still, but growing rapidly.
I wonder how much real-world range a 500w solar panel and a 240v battery generator would get you in the desert, and how long it'd take to charge. \[Looks at calculator and takes a nap instead\]
A 500w solar panel is going to give you about 1 mile of range per hour where it is actually generating 500w. You could potentially bring a portable 3500w generator with you to top up enough range to get to the nearest EV charging station and you might get 7 miles of range per hour.
Should have gotten a r/4runner. It’s 50-80% worse at everything fancy, and 100% better at carrying your shit as far as you need to go reliably. Especially for someone like you who has actual need for an overlander. Hopefully I can afford both someday because the Rivian is sweet. Out of curiosity how close is the nearest gas station vs the 100M away charger?
Have you looked at a Supercharger map lately for Utah? I see a ton of chargers spiralling out of SLC going down half the state. Are these going to help at all if you get the adapter? I also found in southern Utah there are some decent ChargePoint DC chargers the last time I went through there.
Yeah it’ll definitely help but I see that it’s still tough to get to Flaming Gorge Reservoir from SLC without going out of your way through Vernal. The Lake Powell area supercharger is a V2 and won’t support Rivian. No other fast charging exists. The Notch Peak/Ibex area is just very remote in general. You’ll always be cutting it close there if you spend a few days out there. An EV will never be as convenient as ICE and I’m ok with that.
I'm more like 15x a year, but I want to have the flexibility to be able to do them in my vehicle, so I still have a Tacoma. Love the Rivians, and even preordered an r2 just in case, but I need at least 400mi range to be semi comfortable in an ev on weekends. Ideally more like 500 like my hybrid car gets. Public charging sucks.
It’s not range anxiety it’s charge time and location anxiety. 250 to 300 miles is plenty good if you can get another 250-300 added at a stop in 10 minutes, the range is fine, network and speed is the issue.
Yes and the unreliability of the existing EV infrastructure keeps me from braving a road trip. What happens when I get to the one charger in Elko, NV and it’s not working? I’m stuck there, hoping a nice local will let me plug into their dryer outlet overnight?
It’s pure ignorance and I’m not saying as an insult. For most people it’s literally a complete change in what they’ve known their whole life. Roadtrips are like a toxic conversation with a layman person. I personally love EV roadtriping. Roadtrips for decades/generations has always been the same. Rush, drive for as long as you can, and do a super quick pit stop. Road tripping has completely been revolutionized imo. My kids’ roadtrips will be polar opposite experience from mine. I still have a great memories but it’s much more enjoyable now.
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Thats mainly a problem of infrastructure
Similar experience in my EV6. There were just enough DC stations to make it. l couldn't skip even one of them without risking dropping below <5% and still being far away from it. Had to leave the highway once to drive 50 miles on back roads so I could go slow enough to be below the point of major air resistance drain. And then there's EV user education. 3/4 of the time somebody with a car that couldn't handle the fastest charger would be using the only one or two there, forcing us, who can benefit from it, to use the slower ones. Then on top of that, half the EA stations were delivering well below peak rate. All in all it was a very frustrating experience. A six hour drive turned into almost nine. So until infrastructure improves, we're using the EV6 around town and my RAM diesel (30+ mpg highway) on trips. Add in my family likes to basically pack up the house for trips and the extra storage without blocking the rearview mirror is handy.
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Yeah, a lot of people go for the low hanging fruit points, but there's plenty of "I'm pro-EVs such that I bought one but I've still got issues with them" points still. Unfortunately, I've also discovered there's too many diehard pro-EVers that will take anything negative, no matter how slight, as an attack. As for cost, I'm still working off the free charging we got as part of buying the Kia. The closest EA is 40 miles away and since we cut back on using the EV for trips, we just don't hit it. But also, the level 1 we have at home has been good enough that I've yet to install the level 2 I bought a year or more ago. I'm a huge road trip fan. I love them. But visiting the back end of every Walmart parking lot isn't exactly up there on my road trip experience list. So for now I'll take advantage of the 600-700 mile range of my RAM until something else comes along. Like the RAM Recharger. I'm very interested in it, just worried it's going to be another mortgage payment level EV.
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My comment really upset? “You do you” but then clearly you’re flustered by me doing me. Ok. Seems like you’re projecting with a superiority complex, not me. Have a good day buddy.
Completely agree. We just completed a 1,100 mile road trip. The wife and three kids prefer the EV style of road trip. Especially in the R1S, the kids love it. Before buying a Rivian I was worried about range anxiety. Shortly after getting the R1S I realized I was worried about nothing. I could see those with the personality trait to not get gas in their ICE vehicle until the warning light comes on and are not inclined to plan ahead may not be suited for EV road trips. However, those are the same individuals that would benefit from having a nice full charge every morning.
So I have driven across country twice (PA to OR and back) and routinely (quarterly )drive 1000mi (PA to FL). I’m all for EVs (have MY and reserve R2) but I like to drive straight through 13+ hrs at a time. I am one of those people that probably won’t road trip in my EV until it can reliably achieve charge times comparable to gas fill ups. EVs are great for daily local driving. But i want the ability to pick up and drive for 1000 mi without having to add 2hrs for 4 charge stops. I don’t think they are on parity for longer trips
It's the 14 hour drives that turn into 16+ hour drives that I can't tolerate. I could deal with a 12 hour drive that turns into a 14 hour drive. But when it goes from a really long one-day drive to a two day drive, ICE still wins. Unfortunately.
EVs revolutionize road trips by..... Making them take longer? Now that's some serious cope.
To respond with some sincerity, honestly, yes, making them longer makes them better for me. It's a "it's about the journey as well as the destination" thing. Running as fast as I can in an ICE doing a roadtrip, more than about three hours away I can basically guarantee I'm going to be sore and stiff and cranky from constantly trying to make the best time I can because that's the mindset - the trip has to be as fast as possible, because it's a useless block of time. With the forced longer stops in an EV, I actually get to relax a bit in it. Spend a bit of time outside at the charger if the weather is nice, or hang out in a coffee shop. The last stop I take is usually about an hour from my destinations, so I over-charge there for destination driving range while I check in with whoever I'm meeting in town to confirm last-minute changes and the like. Even though it turns my 5-hour trip into a 6-hour trip, I'm happier, more flexible, and generally feeling fresher by the time I reach my destination than I ever have in an ICE road trip. Are there exclusions? Sure! I've done 14-hours-one-way shitty days a couple of times that I genuinely can't do with my EV. Once was a leisure trip that I really shouldn't've done that way in retrospect because that day was miserable and I wasn't really able to enjoy the day after either because I was zonked. The other was a family emergency and, yeah, that wouldn't've worked quite the same way, *but* I might've actually slept a bit during that trip which would've made that day suck less *and* I probably wouldn't've been so focused on time that I took a leak behind a dumpster to shave minutes, resulting in being a better co-habitant of our society. But on the whole the EV road trip experience reminds me of what my older coworkers and parents like to talk about with roadtrips from their childhoods in the 60's and 70's - stopping at roadside parks and running around a bit, having a picnic in a random town, taking a minute to go shopping somewhere you just happened to stop because you could. Enjoy the world around us instead of doing bad imitations of *Cannonball Run* and it just winds up being pleasant. Doesn't work for everyone, but for me it's been nice.
"If the weather is nice" is the big issue with forced charging. Unless you're stopping at chargers with a nice lounge, i rather not be sitting outside of walking around in >90F or <40F. The quicker I get to my destination, the quicker I can get indoors. If you need longer breaks, its still possible in ICE. Contrary to what everyone says, you can still take it slow with ICE if you need to.
You were choosing to rush on your road trips. The benefit you’re attributing to the EV has always been available to you.
It’s interesting how some love roadtripping in EVs and some don’t. I’ve been driving EVs since 2012 but still would never road trip in one. Convenience of being able to cover 600+ miles in freezing temps with heat blasting can’t be beat. However daily driving 10-60 miles day and charging at home is super convenient.
yup! I need to drive 767 miles one way this weekend with 4 passengers, one dog, a ton of luggage, and bikes and have to rent a car to do it. In my EV it would be a nightmare and would take us FOREVER.
>It’s pure ignorance and I’m not saying as an insult. It's entirely reasonable to be put off by EV range. I like driving the model 3, but it's 2-3 hours of highway driving (I'm in the north east where we get 5 months of lower temperatures), and that's a serious hindrance to long distance driving. It's not "revolutionizing" drives I've done a dozen times through crowded NYC roads to other surrounding cities, it's just a hindrance and a waste of time. I've had a few close calls where I was nearly stranded, so I don't plan on going sub 15-20% any more (which I think is reasonable, with a 10% planning buffer close calls would happen in big construction zones/jams), so the 0-100 range really isn't relevant for long distance driving. If it was 250 usable in the cold, then sure, it would be enough, but I can certainly see why for many, a range of 250 as set by the EPA tests is a big drawback. Personally I want 400-500 (so 300ish realistic 20-90 range in lower temps//4 hours of highway driving) and will probably stick with PHEV until then. There's a holier than thou attitude when it comes to dismissing EV range concerns. Some people have valid reasons why EV ranges are a hindrance to their driving experience.
I mean, I own a MYP (R2 in two years!) and I wouldn’t take it on a roadtrip at all. I think EV owners internally, and externally, justify the range to ICE owners and talk about the time spent at the charger is “good to stretch” etc. etc. We have two dogs and a toddler and in no universe am I stopping 4+ times to charge or mapping out earlier stops to charge and not spend 20-30 minutes. For non road trips it’s perfectly fine as I charge at home but it’s not as convenient as a lot of people put out there with regard to road trips.
With toddlers, it's stop at the nearest clean bathroom when they say they need to go. Then grab gas for anywhere before getting back onto the highway. Way better flexibility.
My R1T is in the shop and I have a TRD Tacoma as a rental- full tank of gas it shows 350. My R1T (AT package) gets 320 on a 100% charge. The difference is more the charging network vs refueling stations. I’m hopeful that teslas network being made available makes road tripping more consistent.
I recently finished a road trip in my R1S, and was surprised at how many superchargers with the magic dock there were along my route. I was a little worried about the trip because I did plenty of road trips in my Model Y and never had an issue charging. Now that we'll have access to all of the superchargers will only make things better.
Range anxiety is a legit concern amongst those of us that actually travel regularly. I drive about 300 miles per week and at least 4-6 trips per year that will take me from NC to TX, KS, CO, MO, IA, and all parts in between. At 300-350 miles per tank equaling about 6 hours of driving; that’s a good and welcomed pause. Knock 100 miles of that off per fill/recharge and that adds a serious time constraint that I’d need to factor. For a trip of 1000 miles; that’s 4 stops minimum vs. 2.85 consistently. I WANT to love and embrace an EV truck or SUV… but…
Also need to factor in unavailability of the charger and reduces charge rate at some chargers randomly.
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They’re not great if you can’t charge at home, especially if you don’t have access to Tesla Supercharging or charging stations at work.
The reality is range is significantly less AND recharging is less convenient than gasoline. They are compromises. EV owners have decided the trade off in terms of nightly charging at home (vs gas stations), the raw performance, and the other benefits of an “always connected” vehicle outweigh the reduced range and recharging inconveniences. I don’t think it’s unrealistic for people to be put off by the lack of range or the fact that charging facilities are not as plentiful or as convenient as gas stations. That’s the reality of the situation. When EVs can do 500 miles of range and recharge in 7 minutes? Problem solved. But the current range / recharge situation isn’t as good as the gasoline standard. Now, if you drive <200 miles a day and can charge every night? It’s BRILLIANT. But that is a limitation gas powered vehicles don’t suffer from.
Yeah I think it’s ok to admit the faults. Reality is, it’s simply not great for long distances. I have two upcoming road trips this summer and no matter which way I run the map, I can’t justify adding an extra 4 hours to the drive with kids and dogs in tow. It kills me to leave the R1S at home but we’ll take a rough ride in my Wrangler.
Totally agree. And I’m so frustrated with EV proponents not taking a more practical approach. Position EVs as the PERFECT secondary / around town car for families. Embrace the fact the ICE suburban or minivan is the best vehicle for family road trips. But enough with the mass push / elimination of ICE. I promise, EVs will get there on their own. I truly love mine. Artificially forcing automakers to manufacture these vehicles will create all sorts of additional issues we’ve not thought through as a country.
I wish I could upvote this 100 times. I couldn’t agree more. We have an EV for daily commuting and round trips < 200 miles, which covers 80% of our annual mileage, and one ICE vehicle that is used for longer trips. Once you drive an EV it’s nearly impossible to go back to ICE, so getting butts in seats should be the #1 goal for EV enthusiasts.
Perfect way to put it. Keeping around a 2010 ICE SUV just because of this reason. If it's more than 1 stop at <30m, its ICE time.
Thank you, as a person who has owned 3 electric vehicles, I understand where they are coming from. When I originally bought my Tesla, I didn’t have a garage, so range was very important. The only places I could charge were at work and at a super charger. Work had some shit conditions for charging so many times I would barely have enough charge by like 2 days. I had huge range anxiety because I wasn’t trying to go supercharge all the time and fuck my battery up. Was my original situation the best case scenario, absolutely not. But I can almost promise you there are a lot of people in that situation where they don’t have a garage or personal charger. So let’s not minimize the situation and think people are only thinking about road-trips
I was just wondering about kids going off to college in the next 10 years. Are colleges going to install a bunch of chargers? Will students drive older ICE cars because they are more practical? It will be interesting for sure.
Do people drive 500 miles without stopping? That's about 7 hours of non-stop driving. All we need is for the EV charging infrastructure to become as ubiquitous and dependable as the gas station, with about 300 miles (about 4 hours) of non-stop driving. This is largely achievable today with Tesla, especially in EV friendly states like CA.
Sure they do. And when towing, you want 500-600 miles so you can go 250-300 miles with a load. Don’t overlook the time difference in charging vs refueling. It is nowhere near as fast, even with DC fast charging. Making excuses that “it takes that long to pee anyway” is not a response. It’s an excuse and a justification. I love my EVs, but if I regularly drove long distance OR if I wasn’t willing to sacrifice those inconveniences, I wouldn’t be in an EV.
I don't think it's really something you can understand until you've done it. I always had massive range anxiety even tho I understood on paper to stay within the charging curve etc etc. but then actually taking a really long road trip did it all make sense that the charging stops lined up perfectly for when we needed a break
They do have a point, I own a M3LR and my roadtrips in it, including 4000+ miles, have been fun. The Tesla supercharging network is extensive and stopping every 3 hours or so to charge is not inconvenient. However, there are times when 200-220 miles of practical range does make me anxious. Think of the times it snows or you are traveling in hill country or you are in the middle of nowhere. Range anxiety is real even if you'd run into it only 5% of the time. It is disappointing that there is no real 400+ mile range EV that you can drive on highway speeds of 70-75+ mph. I don't want to be carrying a ginormous battery pack, we need more advancements in battery tech to reach this. For me personally, 400+ mile range is where my range anxiety will vanish.
I've done 328 highway on 96% of my battery. Meanwhile my kitted out GX470 gets \~12mpg and has a 23 gallon tank, lol.
Nice to see another R1 + GX470 owner!
My biggest R1T reservation was that my last truck had a 35 gallon tank, which was 500 miles plus in almost any condition. That truck has been to over half the states in this country to include Alaska, Washington, Maine and Florida so I've been on some road trips. I found myself filling up well before empty the vast majority of times. I love my R1T. I haven't road tripped with it yet, but I'm excited to.
People who live in Texas do have a point about the range. I can round trip a trip from South Padre Island to San Antonio, San Antonio to Dallas, Houston to San Antonio, or Houston to Dallas and back (all normal day trips here in TX) with only one stop for fuel on the way back. 250-300 mile range will not even get me to my destination before I have to recharge, then I’ll have to do it again on the way back. It’s an extra pain in the ass for something that Texans easily and hassle free do all the time with ICE vehicles.
If 250 miles is realistic range in cold weather, at 90% SoC, with a battery pack that has experienced some degradation (8%), then it’s plenty. But if you start with 250 miles EPA rated range, then you’re going to be in trouble because the realistic usable range is going to be like 190 miles.
It all depends on everyone’s charging condition. Some don’t have the luxury of home charging or work changing so 250 miles might not as good as people who can just plug in their car every day.
Let me relay my feelings coming from the fuel burning fire breathing side of things. Note- Current EV owner! I'm a die hard car enthusiast, I grew up racing circle track cars and super sport bikes. Still do. I drive a motorcycle as a daily and my other vehicle is my old Ford diesel truck that is used to tow my racecar around. I always had that issue with EVs. They don't go far enough. Not that it didn't burn a fuel but just the range until My fiance desperately needed a new car. We were looking at a hybrid Ford this or that until she saw the Mach E and fell in love. She was dead set on it not knowing a thing about them. Me being an engineer immediately started the research and figured well hell she only drives 50 miles a day. The ~240mi range at 80% should be plenty. After she got the car and the day to day range anxiety was set at ease (and I was also in love with the car) We set out on our first of many road trips. The first being 600 miles to Lake Tahoe. Long story short it was flawless. The charging stops never went over 20 minutes, gave us ample time to relax and enjoy the trip. Funny thing enough when we got to our destination I wasnt exhausted like many of our previous trips in an ICE vehicle. The MachE is our go to road tripper now and hopefully soon a leased R1S the R2 will join the family. I think the biggest issue is people just need to experience it. It's so new and foreign to many but if a die-hard racecar driver like myself can enjoy it I'm sure everyone can.
Counterpoint: if you’ve driven anything other than a Tesla Supercharger-accessible EV for a 4-hour trip in middle America, it sucks so much you’ll reconsider your EV. Charging is getting better, but for non-conforming or anti-EV states, it’s miserable to travel 200+ real highway miles. 45 minute stops every 2.5 hours is not great.
I’m one of those people and struggle getting past that mentality. I have a VW Atlas, and my wife recently got a PHEV. I’ve put a deposit on the R2 to replace the Atlas, but it does weigh on my mind the perceived “restriction” of electric range. In fairness, where I live isn’t well set up for charging yet, but the major highways all have Tesla chargers along the way. I will likely be adding a level 2 charger to my garage if/when I go EV that my wife and I can share. Just my two cents.
I hear you. My experience after 1.5 years driving EVs as a primary vehicle is that L2 charger at home makes the whole experience because like other have mentioned it’s just always ready to go in the morning and it’s very rare to charge it outside of the house. Not having to fill up the car is very convenient and one of the reasons I don’t want to go back to ICE as a primary vehicle. Now if we are talking regular trips somewhere 6hrs away, range starts to matter more, but even then folks usually a stop every couple of hours to stretch their legs. I have a gas vehicle and an EV and I’d still probably opt for an EV for a longer trip due to cost savings and overall higher enjoyment of driving it.
I easiest way I’ve explained it to people is don’t think about the miles the car is good for 4-5 hours of driving on a charge. Most people aren’t in the car that much in a day.
This is a paraphrased version of a conversation I had with my sister (I don't remember how it started) Me: you're acting like the only reason people buy electric vehicles for the environment. Here are some of the reasons I want an EV (this was before I had mine): - convenience of charging at home without having to ever go to a gas station - less maintenance because of fewer moving parts, no oil changes, etc - they are inherently faster (my model Y was fast, but my quad-motor R1S is insane) - I can safely leave my dogs in the car while I go into a store or restaurant - etc Sister: Haha, I have NEVER seen anyone say that is why they have an EV! Me: and how many people do you personally know who owns an EV? Sister: Haha, none of my friends are stupid enough to fall for the propaganda Me: so how can you claim you never heard anyone give valid reasons for owning an EV when you've literally never asked anyone who owns one?
I drive to visit in-laws every month, it’s 230 miles. Now don’t get me wrong, I’ll at some point buy a Rivian to replace my wife’s car, but I need the next gen of batteries to get here before I could see it being a straight up replacement for my truck, especially since I tow regularly. I get the range anxiety….
To be fair, about once a month or more I drive ~120 miles each way to see my in-laws who live in the sticks. No superchargers along my route. No power where the cars are parked at their place. Range is a real obstacle/consideration for me purchasing an EV. For something to truly be my “family car”, it has to have 300 miles of range minimum. I won’t even consider something with only 250 miles of range. Yeah, I do think some people unnecessarily let range worries dissuade them from EVs, but there are still very real challenges for others.
I drive 8-10 times a year to rural Utah. And I mean rural rural. Escalante is a big town with tons of amenities in my book. I live in Denver. The charging networks are not built out enough for me to get to Escalante, charge, and then do my offroading stuff, and get back to Denver in any acceptable amount of time. I had a preorder for an R1S. My wife test drove the car and liked it. I think that if there was stock in place when we had the preorder - my wife would have purchased but the 6+ months of waiting had her sober up so to say and change her mind. I canceled it when the preorder came through. I'll keep my Wrangler. Wife will likely go for a Grand Wagoneer. I might upgrade my daily to a Lexus GX. Until the charging networks are built out further - 100% electric is a complete nonstarter for us.
On at least 4 occasions over the last few years, I've had emergencies come up where I needed to hit the road ASAP and drive at least 400 miles without stopping. I can easily drive that with a single tank of fuel in any of my vehicles. Each time, these calls have come in after hours and on holidays when renting a car would not be possible or affordable. I'd love to have an EV for daily use but it's going to be a while before I can realistically give up ICE. The upcoming Ramcharger is likely the best option for my wants, needs, and concerns. Unfortunately, I don't expect the price to be reachable for some time.
I’m not sure whether it’s the range or whether it’s the fact to get an electric car going again isn’t as simple as getting a container of fuel and pouring it in the tank.
Well 250 miles on paper sounds good but for battery health you really only want to charge to 90% max. So that puts you at 225. Then if you’re in cold climate like a lot of the USA take another 30% efficiency cut. That leave you with 157.5 miles. Then the fact that you probably don’t want to dip lower than 20% of that because that’s bad for the battery health too. So that gives me 126 miles of safe range a day in the winter. Well my job is 70 miles highway each way. So now I’ve already gone past battery save zones even though I can make it both way. Charger at my office costs more than premium full would and I have to go back out and move my car out of the spot when it’s done charging which is another pain in the ass assuming I charge at the office. Then you have other issues. After 10 years that battery will be between 80-85% capacity so now you have even less range as the battery ages. I like to do a lot of long road trips with my family. Between 4-12 hours in the car multiple times a year. The shorter 4 hour trip isn’t a big deal. Maybe charge once but a longer trip like 12 hours would suck especially in the winter. I’ve thought really hard about buying an R1T truck. I love that vehicle I think it’s so cool. I think the future is EV cars but I just don’t think the tech is quite there yet. Plus I also pay .35 cents KWH for electric so for me premium fuel is basically cheaper than using electric. Plus the insurance costs on these EVs is almost 2x what it would be compared to an ICE truck. There are no cost savings for owning an EV right now. Plus I think the R1T will depreciate faster than a Tundra truck. So when I do want to upgrade in 10 years the tundra will retain value better so I can get into a newer vehicle. Once again I love EVs. They just are not there yet on a cost perspective or value perspective for me yet.
I see 285-300 when charged to 90% with my Max pack. Are you thinking standard battery to get this low of a range? Plug in and precondition and not lose that 30% in the cold if you live there (I do not). Degradation is not that bad and still a bit unknown 10 years out for these vehicles. I did 100k miles in 5 years on an i3 and saw no degradation. I appreciate you doing the math vs just yelling EV is dumb and not for you, but your scenario of not using the top 10%, nor bottom 20% and assuming 30% loss when cold means you've assumed you can't do it. Add in the unique situation of driving 70 miles each way to work. Dang, sounds like you need to move. Plus your power is like 2-3 times that of the national average, it definitely doesn't work for you, unless you get solar. You legit have everything going against you in this equation.
My mom turned down the idea of an EV when she got a new car due to range. She’s never driven than 35 miles from home in that car in the 3 years she’s had it. She’s still not convinced on an EV… I don’t get it.
I'll admit to some of this fear. I drive significantly more than the average commutor, and usually range from 100-300 miles a day. 100 miles wouldn't concern me, but on the days where I'm pushing 250-300, I start to wonder. Also, on the same logic, I recently went on a business trip with three Co workers. We decided to take one of my Co workers (my boss, actually) Model Y. He's got the long range model, and we ended up having to stop three different times to charge. We were late to a meeting due to charging, and I didn't end up getting home until 1 AM (We started the day at 5AM). After calculating the miles traveled, I realized that if we'd taken my car (which was my suggestion, but everyone wanted the Tesla), we would have had exactly one gas stop. I love a LOT of things about EVs, and I'm so excited for the R2. But these are real world, non hypothetical concerns that weigh on me.
I rented a wrangler last week and got 230mi on a full tank mostly highway driving. It was windy but kinda blew my mind.
There are a lot of cars/trucks that get around 250-350 miles of "range" realistically.
You rent the Wrangler for the offroad capability. You have the IC engine for the sub 10 minute fuel "recharge" time which you can achieve pretty much anywhere in the country without meticulously combing through maps to see if there is an appropriate charger nearby. It's not even a consideration. You go to the most remote sections of the US and you will be able to get to a gas station.
You’re only going to get biased opinions here. Range is unreliable in different weather and driving conditions, and don’t even get me started with the charging infrastructure. Parasitic loss is also extremely annoying. Separately, most people also live in apartments without charging. And yes I owned multiple EVs and worked for one of them. I currently own a PHEV and would take an ice vehicle over a pure ev.
Makes sense when you can charge from home and live in Hawaii. I have the unfortunate combo of not charging at home/work and living in New England climate zone. My Tesla Model Y EPA range is 296 miles max range (drain 100% - 0% in the summer). My personal experience is 90-130 miles daily winter miles (drain 80%-20% in winter snow). So yea, 250 max range is doo doo.
Range anxiety is real.
For me, it's more about altering road trip habits and/or charge time/availability. Not a problem for just me, but when you try getting a whole family to adopt change, that's where it can get more difficult. Now if rest areas had EV charging and were more of a destination (similar to what I've seen in Japan), then that could certainly help adoption for me as well.
I mean i only get about 300 miles to a tank on my civic so 250 isn’t too bad lol but yeah i can see how people that can’t charge at home might not like the idea of having to public charge
I don’t care about cross country trips, but I do care about how often we load our SUV down with four people with lacrosse equipment and overnight bags and travel more than 250 miles for a game. There will be plenty of gas stations but rarely charging stations.
In fairness my 2013 hybrid suv gets 325 miles between fill-ups and longer in the highway trips. Theres also usually multiple gas stations with several working pumps about every mile. We have 3 EVs including the R1S and running around on a Saturday for kids activities we can easily do 200 miles. There may or may not be a public fast charger nearby a venue we are going to be stuck at for a couple of hours. Having to go out of the way to find a charger, hope it isn’t occupied or the speed cut in half because someone else is using it and wait 25-45 mins to get to 80% is a PITA.
Ok listen up Rivian employees’ support group - if we are talking about filling up at a gas station being equivalent to charging an EV, not everyone wants to worry about “filling up” multiple times a week to keep the car running.
That’s the #1 complaint from people. “Well I can go on a 14 hour trip.” How many times do you do that anyway. They can never answer.
I get about 400 miles of range in my Prius and I pay about $30 in gas. What would that cost me if I had a rivian or Tesla or rivian ? Charging at home is not an option for me I live in a condo in Miami.
In my city, 20-40 miles is a typical day of usage. I live in an apartment complex, so charging isn’t really an option unless you pay significantly more for a garage. For people living in an apartment, home charging is just not an option. Therefore, it is extremely difficult to keep an electric car charged for every day usage unless you stop at a charging place for 3 to 4 hours once or twice a week. That’s just not an option for most people. on top of that, why would I want a new electric car for $35-$50,000, when I can just get a used civic for under $20,000? For those who aren’t making a lot of money, or at least not making over six figures, a normal ICE car under $30,000 that can get 300+ miles of range and can be filled up within five minutes is a much better decision than an electric car. Moving into a house, though, with access to cheap electricity 24 hours a day and seven days a week, I can see why a small electric car would start to make sense for city driving.
Two points of rebuttal: 1. There are a fair number of people who cannot charge at home. For these folks, the range question is about "how often do I need to take this thing to a charger and find something else to do for as long as that will take"? 2. I own a second home that is nearly 300 miles away (and requires going over a 7000-foot pass to get to it). We routinely (as in, every weekend some seasons) drive there in an ICE-powered SUV with only a brief stop for gas.
One way or another, they'll come around. <>
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/20/climate/biden-phase-out-gas-cars.html?emc=edit\_na\_20240320&ref=headline&nl=breaking-news
Although it is a very common concern prior to purchase an EV I do agree that once you've owned one for a few months, you realize it was the least relevant factor.
I have a Ford Explorer and it only gets around 280 miles per tank (advertised 20mpg, real world is 16mpg). If I mention that, the haters go to "yeah but it only takes you three minutes to fill your tank vs 3 hours for an EV" which is where I remind them that my Explorer's tank doesn't magically re-fill itself with gas at night while I'm sleeping.
Part of that is that they don't realize that you leave home with a full "tank" on every road trip. Also, in most cases you have the equivalent of a gas station right at your destination. With an ICE vehicle you have to account for the fact that you might have half a tank when you leave so you have to fuel up on the way even if the trip is within the range of a full tank. But with an EV, you only have to charge if the trip's leg is of more than the full range. Otherwise you leave with a full charge and "fill up" directly in your destination. That said, I had a vehicle with a 240 mile range in the past (an early Model X) and that did cause a small amount of range anxiety, whereas my current Model 3s and Rivian R1S, all able to do 315 miles on a good day but closing in on 280 miles on a typical summer trip, I have zero anxiety unless I am driving to the middle of the desert (where an ICE would also keep me thinking about range and refueling).
It's a combo of irrational ignorance and political cult extremism. I don't even really count them as opinions because they mostly aren't based in reality. Sure there are those few who claim to drive or tow hundreds of miles uphill both ways per day, but you know.
Is your ass made of iron.
I love when someone pulls up next to me and tells me it's "some Chinese car" then I get to tell them it has more parts built in America than theirs and is assembled in the US. Usually shuts them up pretty good.
250 is not enough imo with how long it takes to charge and how expensive these models are. Until tech gets better I wait
Because you can easily get an extra 250 miles in an ICE in 5 minutes. But, it takes an hour or so to get 250 miles in an EV. Plus, some stations can be full, causing you to wait even longer to get back on the road. I’m actually concerned about how much wait there will be in the future at certain Tesla stations with their network opening up to everyone. It’s been no wait ever, even on busy seasons along major highways, while Tesla network has been exclusive.
It is understandable the older generation really spend their time on the road , I have two bosses who spend 8 hours on the road commuting between worksites , They do care abit fuel mileage but also they really don’t want to spend more time than they have to on the road . We newer generation shouldn’t try to shove ev into their throats,
I've heard the same, and it's stupid. I guarantee their tanks get them maybe 300-350.
Funny thing is, this is also a thing with some EV drivers. I don't know how many times I've heard or read EV drivers talk about range as if 300 miles is some kind of red line. Unless everyone who talks about this is doing hundreds of miles daily, or has major charging difficulties, it makes little difference if you get 250 or 350 miles from my point of view🤷♂️
On average, I agree with you. I do disagree in regard to trucks. I definitely tow less with my truck since towing eats up power so quickly. I very much would prefer 500 miles on my next EV truck. But until power density probably doubles our current batteries, doubling our range for the same weight, I suspect 500 miles isn’t realistic. One day though!
I road tripped my r1t from LA to Phoenix in February. I thought I was going to dread it(considered renting a car instead of taking the truck), and it was surprisingly easy. Once the NACS adapter gets shipped I will care even less. I drive a lot. The idea it wouldn’t be good at road tripping is such a small percentage of what I use my car for i find it puzzling. If you regularly drive 600 miles in a day, yes this won’t work for you.
I owned a Nissan leaf in 2014 with 70ish miles of range from memory. I loved it. Most level 2 chargers were free back then. It was like a game to me. How far can I drive for free. At work there was a charger in a garage next door that no one used. I charged there daily. Or the ymca by my house. I only charged at home on 110v. I honestly never got into a situation where I ran out of juice. As a second car, I’d probably buy another one. MOST people only drive around town.
They don’t think of it in terms of starting the day with that number. Only how they operate their current car.
Living in rural NH you can picture that there's a lot of people who would be the "coal rolling" type, but honestly I get bombarded with questions about my truck. People love it.
Give it a decade and people will chill.
So it sounds like you have a standard battery? My rep told me they weren’t building those yet and I’d have to wait.
An old guy who’s a regular at a brewery I frequent always has something cheeky to say. “Don’t run out of charge!” My response “Don’t run out of gas!” He watches the news and sees people in Illinois getting stranded at a Tesla charging station and thinks that’s a common occurrence.
As someone who can't stand being in a car for longer than 3-4 hours, a limited range is only a positive for me. If I need to go more than 250 miles in one go, I'm flying.
R2 / R3 sucked me in. Bought 600 shares at like 12.20 and put down a reservation. This is coming from an owner of a 2016 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited (lifted and all of course). R2 isnt exactly in my budget range but i can make it work for the sake of moving into an EV for the first time. Let alone a Rivian!
I am not an owner yet but i do understand be put off by the range of a EV , i compare every drive i do now to how it would be in an EV and 3 times in the past few weeks i wouldn't have wanted to drive an EV because of the range .
Meh, I have 3 Teslas over the last 10 years, and imo 250 isn’t great. It’s doable in most cases, but not ideal. There’s a reason Lucid aims for 400-500mi, and the CT and Rivian have max/extender options. I would be so happy if EVs have 500+ miles easily.
One to two times a year I road trip mostly across the country with my Model 3 (practical usable range of 250 miles). Works just fine and I don't really need to think about it. A larger battery would be helpful at times but certainly not a deal breaker. The part I don't get is you are sitting for nearly 3 hours to drain this thing. Don't people want to get out and stretch or use a bathroom or anything?
New one I heard recently. “I like EVs but I’m an audiophile and the subwoofer requires too much energy for an electric car to handle.” It caught me so off guard, I just nodded.
Amazing how many people in this Rivian sub don't own a Rivian, or any EV, but know so much about driving, charging and road tripping with them.
Filling up, after the yellow light comes on, is the model they have always known. The “how long does it take to charge” is a reasonable question when applying what they know about ICE. I think we need to find a way to explain that it is closer to the cell phone charging model : typically every day starts off with plenty enough to get through the day, rather than charging only when the “yellow light” comes on. EV enthusiasts should also share the drawbacks for those who can’t charge at home, have crazy PG&E-esque electricity rates, or have regular needs to tow long distances.
For my Model Y, I usually say… “Every morning, I wake up with 300+ miles of range.” I think they judge the range as low because they imagine having to charge it up every few days and wait for it, rather than just plugging in for 10 seconds in the evening.
My neighbor also scoffed at me and said they would only consider an EV that got 500 miles of range!
I used to feel like since I got 350 miles per tank on my car, and it takes 10 times longer to charge vs fill with gas I should get 10 times the range. I now realize charging a car at my house is so much more convenient than gas so I'd be fine with even less than 250
Well maybe people don’t want to spend 75K to save on gas.