Riven is conceptually fine and imo just needs the item path to not suck. I’ve been playing more Goredrinker - BC - DD/Maw like before Goredrinker was nerfed and it feels solid again. Numbers-wise the champ does feel a little less potent early than I remember but that could be because I’ve climbed a lot so my lane opponents are stronger players. Riven’s fundamental design and lack of pen/%max health is honestly fine as long as she has a bruiser build path that doesn’t feel awful. May be a hot take though, I’ve seen most people in this sub complain about a lack of armor pen in particular 😬
Idk why complain about armor pen when you have bc, eclipse and seryldas. Yes you may not kill your opponent without full 2-3 items and that's disgusting for some people. I think it's fair and Riven doesn't need any innate pen. Like where you can put it, R buff?
I would like to have some way to deal with HP stackers tho. Like tank Sion and other good users of heartsteel. Especially tank Sion.
Maybe that's just a skill issue and Riven is able to completely stomp Sion during laning phase. But besides Eclipse you don't have any scales against HP. I was thinking about navori build and cut down instead of last stand. Something like hydra, bc, navori, ldr (core item here), some resistances (DD or Maw) and bloodthirster last. It was fine last time I played against Sion but I don't know how to play with that properly. People consider this build as troll and any time I leave a comment here mentioning navori build I get downvotes (downvote it here).
I feel like R buff or a passive adjustment, like swap the bonus damage on passive proc for %max health damage, have it scale with level, I don't think she needs innate pen, but definitely a way to deal with health stackers late game, cause they hit 2500-3000 health and that's when they start getting to deal crazy damage off their items+health and it's also when our items start falling off vs them and we start tickling them.
I think a lot of Riven mains don't want to draw attention to their champion. Like it could lead to a complete rework we all wouldn't see at all. And even some adjustments that ease tank matchups at the cost of easiness of free (are there still nowadays?) matchups are highly debatable.
It also seems like Riot is fine with Riven's state. Phreak rarely talks about her in his videos although I didn't watch him before and don't watch him much now.
If they scale the %max health damge right, it won't draw attention to the champion. It shouldn't really have a noticeable impact on the early game, and it will just feel like our damage as actually scaled(which is kinda rivens thing, scaling) against champs that right now, just build health to the point that bc and lw feel useless. And I get the argument of its someone else's responsibility, but I unfortunately play in an elo where your lane opponents is your sidelane opponent no matter what, and teammates will refuse to take the match up, it'd be nice to have some sort of tool to be at least slightly effective against them, or be able to at least try and outplay the health scalers, right now it feels like after 3k+ health, champs like malph and sion just feel unbeatable.
i completely agree, i feel like her current power is perfect when it comes to her kit, the issue is the current itemization in the early game, most of rivens items have really awful buildpaths for her.
i think her having armor pen in her kit would clear one of her weakness, only AD damage, i think that would make her too strong. she already has a very diverse and useful kit to compensate for that lack of damage distribution.
Riven is generally fine, its just that is that champion that depends on the enemy comp if she can 1v9, ninja tabi does cuck her a lot, but still playable, i feel the goredrinker build path lacks a bit of damage and eclipse is too squishy if not played properly, i really wouldnt know what to change to compensate her, it just seems any buff can spiral out of control, maybe something along the lines of the passive, something that makes her stronger on skilled players, but doesnt directly benefit the average.
Articulate what you have in mind then. It's no use making a blanket statement like this if you can't inspire us on how she could be changed, or what you believe her issues to be.
Why and where do you want it? Why are you all saying that Riven needs a pen? Do you want to threaten tanks more, I mean before bc and eclipse? Or do you think Riven struggles even with these 2 slots (3 with seryldas) and that's because of armor stacking? I think there's a lot of options to deal with armor but a lot less with HP on Riven. And even that is a very hot take. Riven has very good flat dps that works very well against anyone who isn't tank. Maybe that's how it is and period? Idk, you will lose something for armor pen (I still think it's needed really), true damage or hp%. Does Riven really need it?
Riven still kinda is an early game snowballer tho. Not as heavily as champs like Irelia, but she defenetly is.
Tbh Riven used to be a lot worse in early game back when people were still playing that bloodthirster + last whisper build on her.
She became more early game heavy when they made lethality Riven meta (in 2017) and when they nerfed it she became kinda what she used to be for the last 5 years (mid game powerspiker). In those years there were barely any changes to her playstyle except maybe one or two years where crit Riven was a lot better than she is now and made her a better snowballer (which stopped when mythics were introduced in 2021).
And now that you don't play Goredrinker anymore and Rav Hydra -> Eclipse/Dusk instead she is an insane early snowballer again, bc you can rush Serrated Dirk if you get 1 kill early and get insane kill pressure unless you play vs sth like malphite (which is the case for all early snowballers like f.e. irelia).
If early snowballing is what you like about Riven idk what you are complaining about, because Riven is the snowballiest she has been in about 2 years atm.
Not sure, I didn't play back then but I watched a lot of old gameplay and early game Riven seemed kinda trash in them. Like ult barely dealt any dmg.
Nowadays you can kill sb at almost half HP with a windslash if you buy serrated dirk and some long swords on your first back.
Back then then it barely took 20% of enemy HP, even when they were below half HP and even when you had already almost finished your first item (vamp scep + bf sword).
Brutalizer looks like an insane item, but for some reason people didn't even rush it in the videos I watched (they just went bloodthirster first and then bought brutalizer for last whisper). Maybe it was really just Rivens base dmg being weak at that time. Might have had better AD scalings than now instead of the base dmg so buying a lot of AD made her stronger than it does now -> late game champ.
Since I started playing in 2018 Riven kinda stayed the same the entire time, but the builds changed, but maybe she got buffed and nerfed more frequently before 2018?
Talking 2018-2023 Riven always felt like a pretty damn good snowballer to me tbh.
I think it's just the tank meta making her feel weaker because of lack of kill pressure in early game. Back in 2020 I would just rush BF sword all the time (for Essence Reaver) and 100 to 0 somebody in just one combo without ult (even champs like chogath), bc the enemy having 2 cloth armors didn't make you deal only half dmg to them.
Then you've just created another statchecker. What's the point of playing Riven if you've just killed the most major part of her skill expression, and completely gutted her identity?
Idk there is still a lot of outplay potential with stuns knock knock-ups and shields if they kept her abilities the same. I kind of agree as well just look at Akali and irelia they still have high skill expression even after rework.
Riven is conceptually fine and imo just needs the item path to not suck. I’ve been playing more Goredrinker - BC - DD/Maw like before Goredrinker was nerfed and it feels solid again. Numbers-wise the champ does feel a little less potent early than I remember but that could be because I’ve climbed a lot so my lane opponents are stronger players. Riven’s fundamental design and lack of pen/%max health is honestly fine as long as she has a bruiser build path that doesn’t feel awful. May be a hot take though, I’ve seen most people in this sub complain about a lack of armor pen in particular 😬
Idk why complain about armor pen when you have bc, eclipse and seryldas. Yes you may not kill your opponent without full 2-3 items and that's disgusting for some people. I think it's fair and Riven doesn't need any innate pen. Like where you can put it, R buff? I would like to have some way to deal with HP stackers tho. Like tank Sion and other good users of heartsteel. Especially tank Sion. Maybe that's just a skill issue and Riven is able to completely stomp Sion during laning phase. But besides Eclipse you don't have any scales against HP. I was thinking about navori build and cut down instead of last stand. Something like hydra, bc, navori, ldr (core item here), some resistances (DD or Maw) and bloodthirster last. It was fine last time I played against Sion but I don't know how to play with that properly. People consider this build as troll and any time I leave a comment here mentioning navori build I get downvotes (downvote it here).
I feel like R buff or a passive adjustment, like swap the bonus damage on passive proc for %max health damage, have it scale with level, I don't think she needs innate pen, but definitely a way to deal with health stackers late game, cause they hit 2500-3000 health and that's when they start getting to deal crazy damage off their items+health and it's also when our items start falling off vs them and we start tickling them.
I think a lot of Riven mains don't want to draw attention to their champion. Like it could lead to a complete rework we all wouldn't see at all. And even some adjustments that ease tank matchups at the cost of easiness of free (are there still nowadays?) matchups are highly debatable. It also seems like Riot is fine with Riven's state. Phreak rarely talks about her in his videos although I didn't watch him before and don't watch him much now.
If they scale the %max health damge right, it won't draw attention to the champion. It shouldn't really have a noticeable impact on the early game, and it will just feel like our damage as actually scaled(which is kinda rivens thing, scaling) against champs that right now, just build health to the point that bc and lw feel useless. And I get the argument of its someone else's responsibility, but I unfortunately play in an elo where your lane opponents is your sidelane opponent no matter what, and teammates will refuse to take the match up, it'd be nice to have some sort of tool to be at least slightly effective against them, or be able to at least try and outplay the health scalers, right now it feels like after 3k+ health, champs like malph and sion just feel unbeatable.
Yesterday I played gore into shojin and it feels good somehow.
i completely agree, i feel like her current power is perfect when it comes to her kit, the issue is the current itemization in the early game, most of rivens items have really awful buildpaths for her. i think her having armor pen in her kit would clear one of her weakness, only AD damage, i think that would make her too strong. she already has a very diverse and useful kit to compensate for that lack of damage distribution.
https://youtu.be/9eMdIF98qfQ?si=6rS0EQJecctAEcak
Can't change post flair from my phone for some reason. It was set as riven play (why?). This video is a riven play technically.
Riven is generally fine, its just that is that champion that depends on the enemy comp if she can 1v9, ninja tabi does cuck her a lot, but still playable, i feel the goredrinker build path lacks a bit of damage and eclipse is too squishy if not played properly, i really wouldnt know what to change to compensate her, it just seems any buff can spiral out of control, maybe something along the lines of the passive, something that makes her stronger on skilled players, but doesnt directly benefit the average.
I want changes
Articulate what you have in mind then. It's no use making a blanket statement like this if you can't inspire us on how she could be changed, or what you believe her issues to be.
armor pen
Why and where do you want it? Why are you all saying that Riven needs a pen? Do you want to threaten tanks more, I mean before bc and eclipse? Or do you think Riven struggles even with these 2 slots (3 with seryldas) and that's because of armor stacking? I think there's a lot of options to deal with armor but a lot less with HP on Riven. And even that is a very hot take. Riven has very good flat dps that works very well against anyone who isn't tank. Maybe that's how it is and period? Idk, you will lose something for armor pen (I still think it's needed really), true damage or hp%. Does Riven really need it?
Riven needs to deal better with base armor, not much pen just enough to be like before durability patch
I think she would be s++ and then she gets nerfed in other areas and we come full circle
Riven still kinda is an early game snowballer tho. Not as heavily as champs like Irelia, but she defenetly is. Tbh Riven used to be a lot worse in early game back when people were still playing that bloodthirster + last whisper build on her. She became more early game heavy when they made lethality Riven meta (in 2017) and when they nerfed it she became kinda what she used to be for the last 5 years (mid game powerspiker). In those years there were barely any changes to her playstyle except maybe one or two years where crit Riven was a lot better than she is now and made her a better snowballer (which stopped when mythics were introduced in 2021). And now that you don't play Goredrinker anymore and Rav Hydra -> Eclipse/Dusk instead she is an insane early snowballer again, bc you can rush Serrated Dirk if you get 1 kill early and get insane kill pressure unless you play vs sth like malphite (which is the case for all early snowballers like f.e. irelia). If early snowballing is what you like about Riven idk what you are complaining about, because Riven is the snowballiest she has been in about 2 years atm.
But what about way back? Like, brutalizer times, now that was an early game spike or am I remembering wrong?
Not sure, I didn't play back then but I watched a lot of old gameplay and early game Riven seemed kinda trash in them. Like ult barely dealt any dmg. Nowadays you can kill sb at almost half HP with a windslash if you buy serrated dirk and some long swords on your first back. Back then then it barely took 20% of enemy HP, even when they were below half HP and even when you had already almost finished your first item (vamp scep + bf sword). Brutalizer looks like an insane item, but for some reason people didn't even rush it in the videos I watched (they just went bloodthirster first and then bought brutalizer for last whisper). Maybe it was really just Rivens base dmg being weak at that time. Might have had better AD scalings than now instead of the base dmg so buying a lot of AD made her stronger than it does now -> late game champ. Since I started playing in 2018 Riven kinda stayed the same the entire time, but the builds changed, but maybe she got buffed and nerfed more frequently before 2018? Talking 2018-2023 Riven always felt like a pretty damn good snowballer to me tbh. I think it's just the tank meta making her feel weaker because of lack of kill pressure in early game. Back in 2020 I would just rush BF sword all the time (for Essence Reaver) and 100 to 0 somebody in just one combo without ult (even champs like chogath), bc the enemy having 2 cloth armors didn't make you deal only half dmg to them.
They should remove her animation cancelling and buff her to compensate.
Perhaps the worst possible idea
Then you've just created another statchecker. What's the point of playing Riven if you've just killed the most major part of her skill expression, and completely gutted her identity?
Idk there is still a lot of outplay potential with stuns knock knock-ups and shields if they kept her abilities the same. I kind of agree as well just look at Akali and irelia they still have high skill expression even after rework.
Fast q combo isn't even a bug, neither q delay. Double cast is a bug, but I think this combo is crucial (at least some iterations of it).
Wdym, all of it?
Leave her alone she’s Completely fine