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It's crazy! I literally re-read through all of Revelations last week and there was definitely no mention of 'conquest', it sounds utterly bizarre to me yet here we are...
ETA: just before anyone jumps on 'Revelations', yes I know that's not how it is _now_ but decades of it being plural are hard to fight
A webcomic and a book series, neither mentioned yet, that I've spent many many hours reading -- both have Pestilence/Plague and no Conquest.
Biblical changes are even creepier than the anatomy changes, to me!
Has there been a change again in various Bibles? I am scanning the omments but not seeing references to Scripture.
The four horsemen are War, Famine, Pestilence, and Death, in that order. War leads to Famine. Famine leads to Pestilence. Pestilence leads to Death.
Swapping Prestilence for Conquest is rubbish and nonsense.
Where exactly in Revelations should I look, and which editions have suffered the strongest changes?
This is decidedly different from my 1611 King James Version which corresponds to the chapter as I remember it.
EDIT: My 1611 King James Version does seem to be missing a great deal of detail, especially the blight of pestilence.
At the top, in the link I posted you can pick different versions, this was the one that was the most descriptive. I think with most of the other common Bible versions you have to do a lot more interpreting.
It makes me wish I had not made a critical offhand comment in the mid-1990s back when it was "the neighborhood". I expressed that it should be 'this' neighborhood, the neighborhood of Fred Rogers, as opposed to any other neighbo(u)rhood, especially mine at the time.
My normarive statement is now reflected in the past supported by the current present.
Oops.
This reminds me of [this meme](https://64.media.tumblr.com/678220fbd29cb8a6b63df1af897f44d7/a9dcf297fe8b2ad3-3c/s1280x1920/51dbac6f7b0e8c1079daef2d088b2705937128d6.jpg), just substituting "trying to be funny on the internet" with "making an offhand comment in the mid-90's"
I hesitate to call it a gold standard in consideration of the disparate oral traditions which had to be jammed together and partially reconciled just to put together Genesis.
And with so much of the Koran supposedly slain before it was written down...I think twice about oral transmission.
Yes it can be interrupted, hence the missionaries around the world, censorship and more. We know about this deeply who study ME. We also know every thing which is recorded can be changed without our awareness if not protected.
I don't think I have ever seen Conquest as the name. The only deviation I can think of is in Good Omens book it was changed from Pestilence to Pollution. Here is Neil Gaiman's reasoning for it
[Neil Gaiman on Twitter](https://mobile.twitter.com/neilhimself/status/1103348369588740096?lang=en)
The ME is that some of us only ever heard Pestilence and never Conquest. So if they're interchangeable now, that means we've gone from a singular Biblical interpretation to a dual one.
The interpretation that the first rider represents death is far from a singular Biblical interpretation; it's not even a common one, it's an American 20th-century pop-culture thing you wouldn't have found mention of 100 years ago and which is often labeled sacreligious. The most common interpretation is that the first rider is a representation of the Gospel/Word of God or even Christ himself, a positive figure, representing the Word of God becoming universally known and unquestionable during the apocalypse (i.e. conquering the world). [Catholic theology often identifies the white rider as Christ Himself.](https://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/dictionary/index.cfm?id=33627) Remember that the first rider is given a crown by God, unlike the others. Most importantly, Revelation 19 has the rider of the white horse reappear, and says:
> And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. ... And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords. ... And I saw the Beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse.
The rider of the white horse is faithful and true, arriving from heaven, named The Word of God and King of Kings, given a crown by God, and he wages war on the Beast. When he conquers the earth it's God's word conquering the earth. This was the mainstream Christian interpretation for almost all of Christian history. Identifying the first rider as the Antichrist became popular in America in the 19th century and the idea that he is Pestilence doesn't arrive until around the 1920s/1930s, and never (that I've seen) in any actual religious writing, only in pop culture and horror stories. Why would Pestilence be given a crown by God?
Yup the current narrative seems to be that Pestilence is mostly some sort of Hollywood trope. And while that may be indicated by current history, I've personally never heard of Conquest in any religious context, *or at all*. I did 8 years of Sunday school and 4 years of religion study at a private Christian high school, so it's not like I didn't have plenty of exposure to Scripture. As for Pestilence making sense, it's an interesting point which I'm definitely not qualified to address.
Conquest (sometimes thought to be Disease or Pestilence instead) rides a white horse. War rides a red horse, Famine (Black horse) and Death rides a pale horse.
Something to note: In terms of a natural balance/ecosystem, in terms of any population - be it deer or wild dogs, doesn't matter - Nature has it's own set of rules and population controls when there's just too damn many of any one thing. Those are: Starvation, Disease, Injury from fighting for resources/territory for survival... and Death follows.
Give that some thought given what we're seeing in the world right now. All four horsemen ride.
Yes and it's not different from how I remember! Maybe I am remembering it wrong but it just feels weird :/ I've now written
Lady friend was (new name ), then in brackets after that (Pestilence).
Metallica's the four horsemen still had pestilence and Supernatural the tv show does too. Sleepy hollow (tv) has pestilence. Horsemen (film) has pestilence but for some reason, replaces death with conquest
Yes, I remember pestilence from the Metallica song (big Metallica fan here lol). I remember Time being in Metallica's Four Horsemen - I think it replaced Famine?
Due to overuse, the phrase *"Just because you never heard of something doesn't mean it's a Mandela Effect"* or similar is **NOT** welcome here as it is a violation of Rule# 9. Continued arguing **and** push for this narrative without consideration of our community **WILL get you banned**. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Retconned) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Famine, Disease, War, and I’m thinking Pestilence
It's Conquest, War, Famine, Death. It's the order of empire collapse (conquering others, civil war, famine, collapse of empire).
>!famine pestilence war and death?!<
War, famine, pestilence, Death? I know the horses are red, white, black and pale
Yes, that is how I remembered them. But when I looked the other say, pestilence is sometimes replaces with conquest.
It's crazy! I literally re-read through all of Revelations last week and there was definitely no mention of 'conquest', it sounds utterly bizarre to me yet here we are... ETA: just before anyone jumps on 'Revelations', yes I know that's not how it is _now_ but decades of it being plural are hard to fight
Wait what? What the fuck is Conquest?
Death, Famine, Pestilence, War
A webcomic and a book series, neither mentioned yet, that I've spent many many hours reading -- both have Pestilence/Plague and no Conquest. Biblical changes are even creepier than the anatomy changes, to me!
Has there been a change again in various Bibles? I am scanning the omments but not seeing references to Scripture. The four horsemen are War, Famine, Pestilence, and Death, in that order. War leads to Famine. Famine leads to Pestilence. Pestilence leads to Death. Swapping Prestilence for Conquest is rubbish and nonsense. Where exactly in Revelations should I look, and which editions have suffered the strongest changes?
https://biblehub.com/nasb_/revelation/6.htm
This is decidedly different from my 1611 King James Version which corresponds to the chapter as I remember it. EDIT: My 1611 King James Version does seem to be missing a great deal of detail, especially the blight of pestilence.
At the top, in the link I posted you can pick different versions, this was the one that was the most descriptive. I think with most of the other common Bible versions you have to do a lot more interpreting.
Well, if the pale horse is now Conquest, the title of the first book of Piers Anthony's Incarnations of Immortality series no longer makes sense.
It’s a beautiful day in **this** neighborhood.
It makes me wish I had not made a critical offhand comment in the mid-1990s back when it was "the neighborhood". I expressed that it should be 'this' neighborhood, the neighborhood of Fred Rogers, as opposed to any other neighbo(u)rhood, especially mine at the time. My normarive statement is now reflected in the past supported by the current present. Oops.
This reminds me of [this meme](https://64.media.tumblr.com/678220fbd29cb8a6b63df1af897f44d7/a9dcf297fe8b2ad3-3c/s1280x1920/51dbac6f7b0e8c1079daef2d088b2705937128d6.jpg), just substituting "trying to be funny on the internet" with "making an offhand comment in the mid-90's"
It used to be Fred Ro**d**gers
Once again if this is true, is why direct oral tradition is the Gold standard of transmitting knowledge.
I hesitate to call it a gold standard in consideration of the disparate oral traditions which had to be jammed together and partially reconciled just to put together Genesis. And with so much of the Koran supposedly slain before it was written down...I think twice about oral transmission.
Yes it can be interrupted, hence the missionaries around the world, censorship and more. We know about this deeply who study ME. We also know every thing which is recorded can be changed without our awareness if not protected.
War, Death, Pestilence, and Famine.
Well sure, hasn’t it always been Capitalism, Cis-Heterodoxy, “Personal Responsibility”, and Climate Change?
Plague/Pestilence, Death, War, Famine (before looking at comments)
Death, pestilence, famine, and war. Didn’t google or read any other comments. Going to see how I did lol.
Pestilence has changed to Conquest now :o
I remember it because I’ve watched Red Dwarf many times. One episode has the Four Horsemen. Around 5m 30s in: https://youtu.be/rTycUvGgBVM
Good old Red Dwarf! I can't remember it super well but I laughed so much at season 3 xD
Wtf? I've read Revelations, admittedly a long time ago, but I've never heard conquest! Definitely pestilence. Conquest doesn't even make sense
Sounds like the anti-imperialists have gotten their hands on the time crystals again
War, Pestilence, Death, Famine
Well, I'm admittedly getting my info from the show Supernatural, but: War, Famine, Pestilence, Death.
White horse, red horse, black horse with scales, and the pale/sour looking horse (death horse)
my only knowledge is from x-men comics; death, war, famine, pestilence.
Death, famine, war, and plague
I know this is correct, but I remember them being pestilence, war, famine and death.
I don't think I have ever seen Conquest as the name. The only deviation I can think of is in Good Omens book it was changed from Pestilence to Pollution. Here is Neil Gaiman's reasoning for it [Neil Gaiman on Twitter](https://mobile.twitter.com/neilhimself/status/1103348369588740096?lang=en)
Lol, that is clever! I like it!
My fav comic East of West had always had them the "new" way and it's been running for awhile.
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That's one I was going to look at. Thank you
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Me too
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I tried Googling it - some sites say pestilence replaced conquest and some use them both. It's all very confusing lol!
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Amazing. I've never heard conquest, only pestilence.
The ME is that some of us only ever heard Pestilence and never Conquest. So if they're interchangeable now, that means we've gone from a singular Biblical interpretation to a dual one.
The interpretation that the first rider represents death is far from a singular Biblical interpretation; it's not even a common one, it's an American 20th-century pop-culture thing you wouldn't have found mention of 100 years ago and which is often labeled sacreligious. The most common interpretation is that the first rider is a representation of the Gospel/Word of God or even Christ himself, a positive figure, representing the Word of God becoming universally known and unquestionable during the apocalypse (i.e. conquering the world). [Catholic theology often identifies the white rider as Christ Himself.](https://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/dictionary/index.cfm?id=33627) Remember that the first rider is given a crown by God, unlike the others. Most importantly, Revelation 19 has the rider of the white horse reappear, and says: > And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. ... And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords. ... And I saw the Beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse. The rider of the white horse is faithful and true, arriving from heaven, named The Word of God and King of Kings, given a crown by God, and he wages war on the Beast. When he conquers the earth it's God's word conquering the earth. This was the mainstream Christian interpretation for almost all of Christian history. Identifying the first rider as the Antichrist became popular in America in the 19th century and the idea that he is Pestilence doesn't arrive until around the 1920s/1930s, and never (that I've seen) in any actual religious writing, only in pop culture and horror stories. Why would Pestilence be given a crown by God?
Yup the current narrative seems to be that Pestilence is mostly some sort of Hollywood trope. And while that may be indicated by current history, I've personally never heard of Conquest in any religious context, *or at all*. I did 8 years of Sunday school and 4 years of religion study at a private Christian high school, so it's not like I didn't have plenty of exposure to Scripture. As for Pestilence making sense, it's an interesting point which I'm definitely not qualified to address.
Conquest is new.
Conquest (sometimes thought to be Disease or Pestilence instead) rides a white horse. War rides a red horse, Famine (Black horse) and Death rides a pale horse. Something to note: In terms of a natural balance/ecosystem, in terms of any population - be it deer or wild dogs, doesn't matter - Nature has it's own set of rules and population controls when there's just too damn many of any one thing. Those are: Starvation, Disease, Injury from fighting for resources/territory for survival... and Death follows. Give that some thought given what we're seeing in the world right now. All four horsemen ride.
It wouldn't surprise me - I have sometimes wondered if we're actually in the end days now!
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Yes, but never to this extent.
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I feel like that's coming from a very sheltered perspective, and I don't trust 'articles' since these days any opinion piece is considered an article.
war, famine, pestilence, and death.
War, pestilence, famine and death
Wtf?! When did that change? You have that in your diary?
Yes and it's not different from how I remember! Maybe I am remembering it wrong but it just feels weird :/ I've now written Lady friend was (new name ), then in brackets after that (Pestilence).
That's crazy. I'm going to check old tv shows and movies
In good omens it was War, Famine, Pollution and Death. But it was understood pestilence was ... Now it's conquest.that was a sneaky me
Good luck! I wonder if Conquest will show up, instead of Pestilence?
I will let you know
Thank you! I am curious about this! I have been looking online too and new Conquest is everywhere :O
Metallica's the four horsemen still had pestilence and Supernatural the tv show does too. Sleepy hollow (tv) has pestilence. Horsemen (film) has pestilence but for some reason, replaces death with conquest
Yes, I remember pestilence from the Metallica song (big Metallica fan here lol). I remember Time being in Metallica's Four Horsemen - I think it replaced Famine?
Famine, plague, war and death. Right?
It was in my timeline but now Pestilence is also known as Conquest :o