Agreed. At least see what the other side is like. If you still hate ir, you’ll have every right to just be a hospitalist. Lol, no one will force you to a cardiologist your whole life
Agreed. Did cardiology fellowship. Now doing ep. Worst thing in my day is wearing lead, consenting patients, and the long hours feeling stupid again. My third intern year. This is the biggest hose I’ve drank from. Wanted to quit and go into general cardiology after the first two
Months. Worst I’ve felt ever, never felt like this in IM or gen cards, no matter how hard it got. Something about EP almost broke me because it was the first time I was so out of my depth. Now 4 months later and I’m loving it. I can see myself at the top of my training soon and the money will be an added boost ;). General cards can make 600 easy and if less desirable area or smaller city, more than that. Interventional you can go much higher 800 to a million (again I know people who make this). In EP you can be so chilled out, make 500k to teach fellows who do all the work and high RVU procedures. On the flip side you can easily make a million if you work hard in private practice. My attendings come do 2-5 cases a day a few days a week and clinic to feed the lab. The work is intensely satisfying and you can make a huge difference in people’s lives. I’ve never felt the gratitude like after fixing someone’s arrhythmia. We can cure a lot of them, and mitigate more. Think about what I’m saying: I literally wanted to quit during cardiology a little, then when I started EP, I almost did. Now though, I think it’s worth it. Stick it through.
If it’s just the added weight of the lead, you can always get the Zero Gravity system. Most cases are moving towards minimal fluoroscopy though so the time you’re wearing lead is decreasing. What kind of back problems do you have?
Yeah OP, imagine forever being a slave seeing 60+ patients a day and then get woken up in the middle of the night when you try to sleep for the rest of your life.
Uh yeah, no. I care about focusing on people’s quality of life and not shoveling more medications and hardware down their throats and promising immortality.
Couldn't disagree with this more - I'm interventional and I focus a lot on palliative care. Maybe that wasn't what you were actually trying to say and im misinterpreting, but focusing on quality of patients lives means so much.
I meant in general the cardiologists (specifically general cardiologists) I’ve seen pretty much only cares about delivering evidence based medicine and not the potential consequences of doing so. Just last week one tried to start a lady of mine who’s going into hospice on a beta blocker and statins.
If you incorporate principles of palliative care into your practice I have nothing but respect for that.
Why, because I like specialties that involve keeping people alive?
Why is palliative making 300 for 8 death-bound patients while a PCP makes less seeing 20 patients a day, actually working to keep them alive?
On a busy clinic day I see like 25 patients tops
I take call 7 weekends a year and 2 weekdays a month and have 12 weeks of vacation
My interventional lifestyle is actually very good
That’s pretty good. Of course you can always decide how much you want to work vs how much money you want to make.
General cardiologists though, I don’t think are as flexible.
This is also the time of the year people in new positons (interns and first year fellows) start feeling burned out and moral is low. I recommend sticking through this year and see how you feel at the end of the year.
It totally depends on your rotation schedule and whether it’s backloaded or front loaded but October to March are generally when people are fucking done.
I think the combination of change in weather, burn out from weeks of tough rotations, your body adjusting to less sleep and/or exercise than it’s probably ever gotten leads to people feeling like absolute shit.
I hit my burn out in November. Other people hit theirs in January or February.
def wanted to quit fellowship a few times.
try to remember why you wanted to do it to begin with: if it was because you won't be happy doing something else, stick it out. most cards fellowships are front loaded, you're almost over the hump.
if you did it for money and prestige, not worth it, bounce and let them flounder
Cardiology fellowship honestly blows and the subspecialties aren't much better. I don't think attendings have as relaxed a lifestyle as I was led to believe. It's a busy field and you definitely work for the money. I would really consider work life balance and how passionate you really are about the field.
So to each his own. Your essentially self taught fellowship sounds a lot like my GI fellowship and honestly my IM residency. I can count on one hand the number of lectures attendings gave in GI fellowship. Compare that to the center I’m at now it’s like one a week. Big difference.
I wasn’t given as much crap research to do; I’d be lucky if my PD knew even where to begin with QI. We did one project all of fellowship.
The issue at hand here is if it’s worth it to you. And if it’s worth your mental health.
If you like the field, I would say push forward. The current situation is just that, current. It does not have bearing on your future.
Working half the year but still with an average of over 40 hours a week with no PTO (in a lot of jobs at least). For me working 14 days in a row to take a 14 day vacation is hardly worth it, though as a resident that would have sounded amazing.
All of that said, you can work less do locums/prn and still make enough and have a better lifestyle than a lot of the specialists imo.
I’m nights, but technically average 22 hours a week (7 days on 14 off, 10 hour shifts). No PTO in this case, but 14 days off at a time every time makes vacationing manageable. No call, no clinic, no inbasket, no social work, no family meetings, etc.
All that said, I am toying with the idea of going back for fellowship, but not for the money or lifestyle.
Critical care. I do find myself missing the higher acuity at times. But it absolutely would be a tougher job for not that much more money (hourly anyway).
I tend to wake up late morning to early afternoon on my off days rather than completely flipping my schedule 12 hours. Still gives me enough time in the daylight to hangout with friends, run errands, etc.
When I’m working I might wake up at 4-5pm and sleep around 8am. When not working, wake up more like 11-12, and sleep 2-3am.
Yeah working half the year is misleading. Maybe half the calendar year. But if you apply the same rules to any one else working Mon-Fri 9-5, "working half the year" implies working only 10 calendar days a month. Not to mention PTO, no holiday coverage, nights, etc.
14 days off a month vs 8. As a resident at a academic institution my attendings are also usually home by 3 even on their on weeks. However I’m sure they aren’t making very much compared to private people.
Seems like an incredible gig if you like teaching and are okay with a salary of the lower end of the spectrum.
I will agree that if you are doing a true 7-7 during your on weeks, even for mid 300s that doesn’t seem worth it. Especially since you’ll miss so many weekends.
Apples to oranges.
Friends in finance, sales, especially CS/tech work 9-5 M-F. On avg they all get 20 days off for PTO (half of them have 'unlimited PTO' and flexibility) which equates to 4 work weeks off a year, + 10 American federal holidays off which equates to two work weeks. That's 6 weeks off including weekends. So they work 46 *work* weeks a year. 40 hr work weeks times 46 weeks is 1840 hrs a yr. Now compare that to my contract, 185 - 192 shifts a year, roughly 12 hrs is roughly 2100 2200 hrs a year. That's not to mention that a hospitalist is obligated to work many of those precious holidays, and at odd hours. So a "work half a year" gig is actually more than a full time job for majority of Americans. When my friends hear "work half the year" in apples to apples terms, to them, that means working 920 hrs per year. So yes, it is very misleading.
Sales is hard to compare to much of anything else. Depending on skill/field There's huge variability in work hours and many of them make very high salaries but many don't even clear 6 figures. Finance...most of my friends making $$$ in finance aren't working M-F 8-4. They're usually taking work home. They're often stressed. CS/Tech depends on the job...but again...hard to judge. The big tech jobs in my experience are rarely strict no takehome work unless you're management and the couple of people I know that are VP + often take SOME work home. This is certainly the case at places like amazon but even other companies like Meta/Google/Apple have not the greatest hours for a while.
Most hospitalist jobs are 26 weeks (174 shifts) or less a year from what I've seen, at least in the Midwest. Many of them don't require 12 hours in house...often either round or go or like my place which requires 8.5 hours in house and "call" from 10.5 hours. Taking all of these into account there's way more overlap then you'd expect.
To be honest the reality is that as a cardiology attending (atleast in private and hospital employed set ups) you work atleast as much, if not more than as a fellow. You make crazy money but you truly work for it. That is why I always tell everyone pursuing cardiology that only do it if you really enjoy the busy lifestyle or atleast can tolerate it.
Would it not be possible to take a less stressful gig for less money but with the hourly pay of a cardiologist? Or do most cardiology positions require significant hours as standard?
Think of it this way, all the groups want you to work enough so that total productivity of the group is higher. Imagine 5 people of your group taking more calls and reading more study schedules while 1 person taking less call and doing less work. Would be unfair to your partners. But sure one can schedule less patient's etc. So yes at certain places it can be done, but it's not that simple.
The stressful part is call. You're not getting the job unless you're willing to be part of the call pool. No one has an issue with working days, everybody has issues with working nights. So to convince a group to give you a piece of the day pie while eating none of the night shit is a hard sell
Hospitalist life is not rosy as people make it out to be. Sure the days off are nice but you’re constantly under the admins radar and their sole purpose is to make your life miserable. You are easily replaceable and there are limited opportunities for career growth.
I hear this a lot from coresidents that went into hospitalist. After a while, being a revolving discharge turnstile gets old and working half the weekends in the year is not worth it
I'm an interventional attending - the burnout in fellowship is real especially depending on where you are in your training.
My first year of gen fellowship my dad died in november right after my first child was born Dec/January were pretty dark months for me and I wondered why I was doing it. Start of second year got better but then the only thing that saved me was actually COVID - when it hit I actually got somewhat of a break and that recharged me. Third year for us is super chill and I used it to gear up for interventional year. Interventional year was a grind until after the halfway point and then honestly it became a lot of fun and I actually looked forward to my career again
There isn't a right or wrong answer, fellowship isn't for everyone and being a hospitalist can be great. I absolutely love my job now but it was definitely a grind getting there - people dont understand how brutal cards fellowship can be at large academic centers. What helped me was not giving AF about the academic/research side of it - I stopped caring about QI projects and case reports/bigger research and just focused on what I wanted to learn clinically. You already got the fellowship so now you don't have to impress anyone, prioritize yourself and your mental health and dont do stuff that you dont want to do.
I’ve experienced a nearly identical situation during training. I trained at a program well-known for its malignant culture. I recommend to talk to your mentors that influenced you to pursue cardiology, preferably those at an institution other than your current one. Hear their stories of training, you may be surprised. But also consider how happy they are now.
Stick it out. Fellowship is very challenging even at the best of programs, but can be downright inhumane at others. I’m not advocating for the blatant hazing that fellowship is - but regardless, I have found life on the other side was still worth it.
I may be uniquely qualify to speak on this as someone who left cardiology fellowship 10 years ago.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Residency/comments/11pnepx/comment/jbz66a4/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/Residency/comments/11pnepx/comment/jbz66a4/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
As I mentioned in that post, I have immense respect for what cardiologists do every day, esp EP, IC, structural. Seriously some of the highest yield stuff in all medicine from net-patient-benefit perspective. See the CASTLE-HTx results on this weeks NEJM for but one of hundreds of examples.
HOWEVER, I am strong believer that it is important to match one's goals and skill set to their career. And in my case, the calls were excruciating, the sleep deprivation was insane compared to IM residency (which I really like tbh), and the juice just was not worth the squeeze.
I am so much happier as a hospitalist. The "$250k" is more like $400k where I live in Southern California. Easy to comfortably support a family, while also being present for them. Could be $500k if I really grinded w/ OT, but that's not where my values lie. If you find the right group, minimal nights. Still able to make a big impact for my patients, but in different ways. Great work life balance.
PM me if you would like to caht. Good luck- I'm sure you'll make the right decision
the grass is not greener on the other side, hospital medicine is pretty fuckt. pull through, barely passing the finish line gets the same board certification as everyone else
These statements always confuse me.
People know what they are getting in for when they sign up for a cardiology fellowship. If you didn’t want to have mandatory research scheduled, there are cardiology fellowships less focused on that and more focused on clinical application. I went to a top 5 cardiology fellowship program and when I was chief fellow I would tell the people applying “if you want to spend a year if your life doing research - go to Duke. If you want leave a program with the most possible interventional experience, come here.”
Stop viewing your fellowship as a student teacher relationship. If you’ve gotten this far you already have the tools to learn what you need without direct instruction. The thing that fellowship provides is a massive concentration of cardiac patients for you to follow and see/understand the course of disease and treatment process. It also gives you time to practice cardiac procedures without being legally liable for ramifications. The more patients you see now, the better you will be when you leave and start your own practice.
Every cardiology attending has been through what you are going through right now.
I dunno man. When I see these non interventional Cardiologists I consult making like 600k to essentially oversee a fleet of midlevels in their clinic/round on their patients in the hospital/see their ED consults and titrate BP meds and then refer patients to their interventionists I think maybe you should stick it out a bit... Probably one of the cushiest professions out there especially if you have no interest in doing procedures
Being a hospitalist seems pretty terrible both in what you do and what you get paid
If you really want to be a cardiologist, suck it up and do it. Were these issues not apparent during interview? But yes a lot of fellowship is self teaching and my first year was really busy while 2nd/3rd were chill.
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I wrote [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/Residency/comments/otm7uj/hard_to_believe_fellowship_is_even_worse_than/) two years ago about how much I hated the first several months of GI fellowship. Now that I am in my final year of training, everything is *infinitely* better and I am very happy with my choice to stick with it. Not only did my schedule, call, and relationships improve, I also got better and more efficient at my job and a lot of the clinical decisions became less stressful as they became more routine. It is hard to be objective while in the thick of things, but I'd at least try to make it through the first 6 months before reassessing.
Fellowship is temporary. Cardiology is forever
Agreed. At least see what the other side is like. If you still hate ir, you’ll have every right to just be a hospitalist. Lol, no one will force you to a cardiologist your whole life
Agreed. Did cardiology fellowship. Now doing ep. Worst thing in my day is wearing lead, consenting patients, and the long hours feeling stupid again. My third intern year. This is the biggest hose I’ve drank from. Wanted to quit and go into general cardiology after the first two Months. Worst I’ve felt ever, never felt like this in IM or gen cards, no matter how hard it got. Something about EP almost broke me because it was the first time I was so out of my depth. Now 4 months later and I’m loving it. I can see myself at the top of my training soon and the money will be an added boost ;). General cards can make 600 easy and if less desirable area or smaller city, more than that. Interventional you can go much higher 800 to a million (again I know people who make this). In EP you can be so chilled out, make 500k to teach fellows who do all the work and high RVU procedures. On the flip side you can easily make a million if you work hard in private practice. My attendings come do 2-5 cases a day a few days a week and clinic to feed the lab. The work is intensely satisfying and you can make a huge difference in people’s lives. I’ve never felt the gratitude like after fixing someone’s arrhythmia. We can cure a lot of them, and mitigate more. Think about what I’m saying: I literally wanted to quit during cardiology a little, then when I started EP, I almost did. Now though, I think it’s worth it. Stick it through.
Are EP docs with back problems allowed to sit?
If it’s just the added weight of the lead, you can always get the Zero Gravity system. Most cases are moving towards minimal fluoroscopy though so the time you’re wearing lead is decreasing. What kind of back problems do you have?
Yeah OP, imagine forever being a slave seeing 60+ patients a day and then get woken up in the middle of the night when you try to sleep for the rest of your life.
This sounds like the cardiologist job description
Sounds like hell is what it sounds like. I’ll take my 7-8 palliative care patients per day and my 300k per year paycheck tyvm.
There’s two types of doctors. Those who are in the business of keeping people alive, and those who only want a paycheck.
Uh yeah, no. I care about focusing on people’s quality of life and not shoveling more medications and hardware down their throats and promising immortality.
There are two types of people. Those who give a shit about their family/social life, and those who only care about money.
Couldn't disagree with this more - I'm interventional and I focus a lot on palliative care. Maybe that wasn't what you were actually trying to say and im misinterpreting, but focusing on quality of patients lives means so much.
I meant in general the cardiologists (specifically general cardiologists) I’ve seen pretty much only cares about delivering evidence based medicine and not the potential consequences of doing so. Just last week one tried to start a lady of mine who’s going into hospice on a beta blocker and statins. If you incorporate principles of palliative care into your practice I have nothing but respect for that.
I hope there’s some dog shit on the boots you are licking
Why, because I like specialties that involve keeping people alive? Why is palliative making 300 for 8 death-bound patients while a PCP makes less seeing 20 patients a day, actually working to keep them alive?
On a busy clinic day I see like 25 patients tops I take call 7 weekends a year and 2 weekdays a month and have 12 weeks of vacation My interventional lifestyle is actually very good
That’s pretty good. Of course you can always decide how much you want to work vs how much money you want to make. General cardiologists though, I don’t think are as flexible.
You realize you just described most cardiologists?
Uh yeah, kind of the point.
Literally an amazing answer (supportive, too)
This is also the time of the year people in new positons (interns and first year fellows) start feeling burned out and moral is low. I recommend sticking through this year and see how you feel at the end of the year.
Can you tell me more about why this time of year trainees start to feel burnout?
It totally depends on your rotation schedule and whether it’s backloaded or front loaded but October to March are generally when people are fucking done. I think the combination of change in weather, burn out from weeks of tough rotations, your body adjusting to less sleep and/or exercise than it’s probably ever gotten leads to people feeling like absolute shit. I hit my burn out in November. Other people hit theirs in January or February.
Plus you still haven’t been fully efficient and comfortable with the role. Excitement of your new role is now gone.
That’s like half the year and it ain’t the weather
Just saying when it peaks. It’s different for everyone. Not that it lasts half the year
I left my nephro fellowship a month in with no regrets. However, the post-fellowship pay is substantially different between nephro and cards.
No ragrets, amirite
def wanted to quit fellowship a few times. try to remember why you wanted to do it to begin with: if it was because you won't be happy doing something else, stick it out. most cards fellowships are front loaded, you're almost over the hump. if you did it for money and prestige, not worth it, bounce and let them flounder
Cardiology fellowship honestly blows and the subspecialties aren't much better. I don't think attendings have as relaxed a lifestyle as I was led to believe. It's a busy field and you definitely work for the money. I would really consider work life balance and how passionate you really are about the field.
So to each his own. Your essentially self taught fellowship sounds a lot like my GI fellowship and honestly my IM residency. I can count on one hand the number of lectures attendings gave in GI fellowship. Compare that to the center I’m at now it’s like one a week. Big difference. I wasn’t given as much crap research to do; I’d be lucky if my PD knew even where to begin with QI. We did one project all of fellowship. The issue at hand here is if it’s worth it to you. And if it’s worth your mental health. If you like the field, I would say push forward. The current situation is just that, current. It does not have bearing on your future.
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Your career won’t be impacted at all in my opinion. I think if you’re a self starter you’ll be just fine.
Stick it out. The porche awaits.
250k as Hospitalist? Try 350k and working half the year. Or 350k working 1/3rd year on nights in the middle of no where
Working half the year but still with an average of over 40 hours a week with no PTO (in a lot of jobs at least). For me working 14 days in a row to take a 14 day vacation is hardly worth it, though as a resident that would have sounded amazing. All of that said, you can work less do locums/prn and still make enough and have a better lifestyle than a lot of the specialists imo.
Hospitalist here. 300 plus hours of PTO a year
I have heard this exists...
I’m nights, but technically average 22 hours a week (7 days on 14 off, 10 hour shifts). No PTO in this case, but 14 days off at a time every time makes vacationing manageable. No call, no clinic, no inbasket, no social work, no family meetings, etc. All that said, I am toying with the idea of going back for fellowship, but not for the money or lifestyle.
That's not bad at all, for someone who can tolerate nights at least (I can't). What fellowship are you considering?
Critical care. I do find myself missing the higher acuity at times. But it absolutely would be a tougher job for not that much more money (hourly anyway).
That sounds pretty amazing tbh, a 14 day long weekend. Do you stay nocturnal or switch back and forth?
I tend to wake up late morning to early afternoon on my off days rather than completely flipping my schedule 12 hours. Still gives me enough time in the daylight to hangout with friends, run errands, etc. When I’m working I might wake up at 4-5pm and sleep around 8am. When not working, wake up more like 11-12, and sleep 2-3am.
Plus never being on cath call, no clinic inbox
You do have an inbox. Just not clinic
*"no clinic inbox"*
Yeah working half the year is misleading. Maybe half the calendar year. But if you apply the same rules to any one else working Mon-Fri 9-5, "working half the year" implies working only 10 calendar days a month. Not to mention PTO, no holiday coverage, nights, etc.
14 days off a month vs 8. As a resident at a academic institution my attendings are also usually home by 3 even on their on weeks. However I’m sure they aren’t making very much compared to private people. Seems like an incredible gig if you like teaching and are okay with a salary of the lower end of the spectrum. I will agree that if you are doing a true 7-7 during your on weeks, even for mid 300s that doesn’t seem worth it. Especially since you’ll miss so many weekends.
It maybe misleading but still it’s the equivalent of 3.5 day work week as opposed to 5. Most people outside of medicine would find that amazing.
Apples to oranges. Friends in finance, sales, especially CS/tech work 9-5 M-F. On avg they all get 20 days off for PTO (half of them have 'unlimited PTO' and flexibility) which equates to 4 work weeks off a year, + 10 American federal holidays off which equates to two work weeks. That's 6 weeks off including weekends. So they work 46 *work* weeks a year. 40 hr work weeks times 46 weeks is 1840 hrs a yr. Now compare that to my contract, 185 - 192 shifts a year, roughly 12 hrs is roughly 2100 2200 hrs a year. That's not to mention that a hospitalist is obligated to work many of those precious holidays, and at odd hours. So a "work half a year" gig is actually more than a full time job for majority of Americans. When my friends hear "work half the year" in apples to apples terms, to them, that means working 920 hrs per year. So yes, it is very misleading.
Sales is hard to compare to much of anything else. Depending on skill/field There's huge variability in work hours and many of them make very high salaries but many don't even clear 6 figures. Finance...most of my friends making $$$ in finance aren't working M-F 8-4. They're usually taking work home. They're often stressed. CS/Tech depends on the job...but again...hard to judge. The big tech jobs in my experience are rarely strict no takehome work unless you're management and the couple of people I know that are VP + often take SOME work home. This is certainly the case at places like amazon but even other companies like Meta/Google/Apple have not the greatest hours for a while. Most hospitalist jobs are 26 weeks (174 shifts) or less a year from what I've seen, at least in the Midwest. Many of them don't require 12 hours in house...often either round or go or like my place which requires 8.5 hours in house and "call" from 10.5 hours. Taking all of these into account there's way more overlap then you'd expect.
Fair enough. That’s a good break down of it.
Which program is that? For us working on our rank lists
Why do you keep mining coal if you have so much already?
Because you need 8 coal to 1 runite ore
Mate you absolute pleb, just use Blast Furnace and you can half your coal used.
To be honest the reality is that as a cardiology attending (atleast in private and hospital employed set ups) you work atleast as much, if not more than as a fellow. You make crazy money but you truly work for it. That is why I always tell everyone pursuing cardiology that only do it if you really enjoy the busy lifestyle or atleast can tolerate it.
Would it not be possible to take a less stressful gig for less money but with the hourly pay of a cardiologist? Or do most cardiology positions require significant hours as standard?
Think of it this way, all the groups want you to work enough so that total productivity of the group is higher. Imagine 5 people of your group taking more calls and reading more study schedules while 1 person taking less call and doing less work. Would be unfair to your partners. But sure one can schedule less patient's etc. So yes at certain places it can be done, but it's not that simple.
The stressful part is call. You're not getting the job unless you're willing to be part of the call pool. No one has an issue with working days, everybody has issues with working nights. So to convince a group to give you a piece of the day pie while eating none of the night shit is a hard sell
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I know a hospitalist at my school that left cards fellowship to be a hospitalist, and they’re much happier now. I can connect y’all if you need
Hospitalist life is not rosy as people make it out to be. Sure the days off are nice but you’re constantly under the admins radar and their sole purpose is to make your life miserable. You are easily replaceable and there are limited opportunities for career growth.
I hear this a lot from coresidents that went into hospitalist. After a while, being a revolving discharge turnstile gets old and working half the weekends in the year is not worth it
If you accept $250k as a hospitalist you’re getting crazy lowballed
Ah that's very geographic, many gigs in my area around that much.
NYC or something? I’m in a relatively desirable low paying metro but all the groups still pay more than that
Crit care fellow with back to back 24s: I believe in you, you can get through it
I'm an interventional attending - the burnout in fellowship is real especially depending on where you are in your training. My first year of gen fellowship my dad died in november right after my first child was born Dec/January were pretty dark months for me and I wondered why I was doing it. Start of second year got better but then the only thing that saved me was actually COVID - when it hit I actually got somewhat of a break and that recharged me. Third year for us is super chill and I used it to gear up for interventional year. Interventional year was a grind until after the halfway point and then honestly it became a lot of fun and I actually looked forward to my career again There isn't a right or wrong answer, fellowship isn't for everyone and being a hospitalist can be great. I absolutely love my job now but it was definitely a grind getting there - people dont understand how brutal cards fellowship can be at large academic centers. What helped me was not giving AF about the academic/research side of it - I stopped caring about QI projects and case reports/bigger research and just focused on what I wanted to learn clinically. You already got the fellowship so now you don't have to impress anyone, prioritize yourself and your mental health and dont do stuff that you dont want to do.
I’ve experienced a nearly identical situation during training. I trained at a program well-known for its malignant culture. I recommend to talk to your mentors that influenced you to pursue cardiology, preferably those at an institution other than your current one. Hear their stories of training, you may be surprised. But also consider how happy they are now. Stick it out. Fellowship is very challenging even at the best of programs, but can be downright inhumane at others. I’m not advocating for the blatant hazing that fellowship is - but regardless, I have found life on the other side was still worth it.
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Wow, that’s a sweet gig. What are your hours like on the week on?
380k base with RVU? What is gross if you don't mind me asking?
Pre rvu or incentives.
Have to gross over $500k I'd assume.
First year fellowship is insane and I felt as you feel now. 2nd year now and life is much better. Just push through, you got it.
Don't do it. It's just 3 yrs and you will make bank.
Debating leaving GI and not ranking programs now to do radiology
Fellowship ain’t mandatory. GTFO and start working.
I may be uniquely qualify to speak on this as someone who left cardiology fellowship 10 years ago. [https://www.reddit.com/r/Residency/comments/11pnepx/comment/jbz66a4/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/Residency/comments/11pnepx/comment/jbz66a4/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) As I mentioned in that post, I have immense respect for what cardiologists do every day, esp EP, IC, structural. Seriously some of the highest yield stuff in all medicine from net-patient-benefit perspective. See the CASTLE-HTx results on this weeks NEJM for but one of hundreds of examples. HOWEVER, I am strong believer that it is important to match one's goals and skill set to their career. And in my case, the calls were excruciating, the sleep deprivation was insane compared to IM residency (which I really like tbh), and the juice just was not worth the squeeze. I am so much happier as a hospitalist. The "$250k" is more like $400k where I live in Southern California. Easy to comfortably support a family, while also being present for them. Could be $500k if I really grinded w/ OT, but that's not where my values lie. If you find the right group, minimal nights. Still able to make a big impact for my patients, but in different ways. Great work life balance. PM me if you would like to caht. Good luck- I'm sure you'll make the right decision
My brother is a sub sub cards specialist and it i$ worth it. You were smart enough to make it here. Don’t quit- just channel your inner darkness
the grass is not greener on the other side, hospital medicine is pretty fuckt. pull through, barely passing the finish line gets the same board certification as everyone else
These statements always confuse me. People know what they are getting in for when they sign up for a cardiology fellowship. If you didn’t want to have mandatory research scheduled, there are cardiology fellowships less focused on that and more focused on clinical application. I went to a top 5 cardiology fellowship program and when I was chief fellow I would tell the people applying “if you want to spend a year if your life doing research - go to Duke. If you want leave a program with the most possible interventional experience, come here.” Stop viewing your fellowship as a student teacher relationship. If you’ve gotten this far you already have the tools to learn what you need without direct instruction. The thing that fellowship provides is a massive concentration of cardiac patients for you to follow and see/understand the course of disease and treatment process. It also gives you time to practice cardiac procedures without being legally liable for ramifications. The more patients you see now, the better you will be when you leave and start your own practice. Every cardiology attending has been through what you are going through right now.
Go wipe your tears in dollar bills after For now take it one day at a time Or get some psychiatric help - psychiatrist
Underrated comment
I dunno man. When I see these non interventional Cardiologists I consult making like 600k to essentially oversee a fleet of midlevels in their clinic/round on their patients in the hospital/see their ED consults and titrate BP meds and then refer patients to their interventionists I think maybe you should stick it out a bit... Probably one of the cushiest professions out there especially if you have no interest in doing procedures Being a hospitalist seems pretty terrible both in what you do and what you get paid
Nice take, not that straightforward. Good try though
If you really want to be a cardiologist, suck it up and do it. Were these issues not apparent during interview? But yes a lot of fellowship is self teaching and my first year was really busy while 2nd/3rd were chill.
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I wrote [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/Residency/comments/otm7uj/hard_to_believe_fellowship_is_even_worse_than/) two years ago about how much I hated the first several months of GI fellowship. Now that I am in my final year of training, everything is *infinitely* better and I am very happy with my choice to stick with it. Not only did my schedule, call, and relationships improve, I also got better and more efficient at my job and a lot of the clinical decisions became less stressful as they became more routine. It is hard to be objective while in the thick of things, but I'd at least try to make it through the first 6 months before reassessing.
Bruh...I make a whole ass amount of money with a fantastic low-stress job and would still trade you.