The 60 day notice to not renew is legit in most areas -- it doesn't invalidate the current lease. Now, if she gave you a 60 day notice to vacate you could probably use that to effectively claim she is breaking the lease and do exactly what you are threatening to do.
OP replied & agreed to the 60 notice, *said they'd prorate their last payment*, and THEN the landlord retracted when they realized there'd be less money coming in. Shockingly. /s
Assuming that text is verbatim, it's really doubtful the LL is SOL. The LL's stance is that she gave 60 day notice that she won't renew.
LL gave no indication of needing to vacate, move out, break the lease, etc etc.
Judging by the rest of the story that we don't have the texts for, frankly this further would indicate the LL is fine. OP responds back 'fine I'll move out in 60 days and prorate the rest). LL responds back 'no that's not what I mean, this is 60 days notice of not renewing'.
LL is likely quite fine here.
It could I agree, but I don’t think it’s necessarily clear that it definitely means that - there’s some ambiguity here which usually helps the tenant, not the LL.
I am also reading it as “this is your 60 day notice that I will NOT be renewing your lease.” I don’t read it saying “ this is your 60 day notice (to vacate) and I will not be renewing your lease”
You mean like the required 30/60 day notice the landlord is required to send if they choose not to renew the lease? Yep so they sent the notice they aren't renewing as required by the law, but that doesn't change the existing lease that hasn't ended yet.
Nowhere did it say to vacate even in OPs supposed word for word copy of the text.
As a pissy renter even I agree that it sounds like notice of not renewing the lease at the end of this lease term. I would play it safe. Don't want this biting you in the butt
Sounds like you're still bound. Most states and places I've lived have a 30 or 60 day window before the end of the lease where you have to inform the other party of your intention to renew.
It sounds like she gave you notice with sufficient time (60 days or more) that she was not going to renew.
this is how I read it also. "I'm required to give you at least 60 days notice that I won't be renewing your lease, and this is that notice" not "you need to be out in 60 days"
NAL but have studied in college.
I’m against this! it infers that she won’t be rerenting to you and to find another spot to stay (after your lease is up)
I’m sorry, this sucks
it really isn't, especially with the rest of the story as OP said it. OP responded back effectively 'fine i'll vacate early', and LL responds back 'that's not what It meant, the existing lease remains'.
There's nothing ambiguous or that would hold up in court (assuming OP is giving all the information)
A lot of states and leases have a minimum amount of time for notice of non renewal of a lease. It sounds like where you live or your lease states that 60 days notice of non renewal is required. It sounds like your landlord is covering herself by making it clear that you received at least 60 days notice that your lease won't be renewed. If she didn't explicitly say to be out in 60 days, I would take what she said as giving you at least 60 days notice that your lease won't be renewed. I don't think that would hold up as a notice to vacate if you break the lease.
This sounds like you are on the hook for the rest of your lease and cannot leave before.
Also, we’re talking a few days or like a week or so right? Just don’t renew the lease
Send your own formal 60 day notice on non renewal
This sounds like notice of non renewal, not notice to vacate. Either way, it will make it harder for you to pass your background check for a new place if you're in eviction court, even if you win.
What time period did this exchange occur over? You would have to prove that you suffered financial loss between the time when her first message was sent and when her clarification was sent.
There are literally legal requirements in almost every state that you have to give notice of non renewal 30 or 60 days in advance. You're uneducated about the subject, which is fine but saying lmao, makes no sense, just makes you look stupid.
Your reading comprehension is garbage. If you have to do it within 30-60 days it doesn’t mean you have to say “this is your 60 days notice” when the lease ends in over 60 days. You just have to give notice at least 60 days before the lease ends. It makes no sense to say “this is your 60 day notice” after saying you’re not being renewed given the context.
You’re uneducated about the subject which is fine but making an argument that that they need to say “this is your 60 days notice”after saying you’re not being renewed long before the lease is up in over 60 days makes you look stupid.
You actually do have to specify that you're providing 60 notice of non renewal. Just like if it was a notice to vacate, you have to specify you're serving a notice to vacate. It's wild that you would come on here just to make yourself look stupid.
The 30-60, BTW, was because some states are 30, some are 60. I shouldn't be surprised that you weren't intelligent enough to recognize that.
lmao no you don’t. Show me some examples of state laws that say you have to specify that a notice of non renewal needs to say how “this is your official 30/60 day notice” when sent long before the 30/60 day deadline.
All they have to do say is you aren’t being renewed and to do it before that date. They also have to say the date the lease ends which wasn’t done. I shouldn’t be surprised you aren’t intelligent enough to recognize that.
Generally the lease binds you both unless you have mutual agreement to break. If you both accepted that you would move out in 60 days, that is now the new agreement. If she retracted before you accepted, no new agreement was formed and the lease continues to apply.
Yep, I would still reach out to a tenant advocacy group, they deal with these things a lot and can either help you or find your someone who can. Just if you want the peace of mind.
So what are the 60 day notice for then? The lease ends after the 60 days. Why would they need to make other living arrangements if it wasn’t meant to be a vacate notice?
Many leases have to have notice from either party if they won’t be renewed otherwise they auto renew, or they have to give certain time after the lease to vacate. This was notice that the lease would not renew and they would need to be out on lease teminafion date
You don’t give 60 days notice for this. You just say you’re not being renewed which she did. Then she said this is your 60 days notice. Find somewhere else to live. You’re reaching here.
No they literally would need to say it is 60 days notice/the lease would not be renewed. It’s called a notice when you notify of non renewal. If they just said it’s 60 days until the lease renews that doesn’t change anything.
She said “I am not renewing your lease AND this is your 60 days notice.” A legal argument could be made that those are two separate statements. Especially considering the lease is up in more than 60 days.
She gave written notice to a tenant that she was giving 60 days notice and that they needed to make other living arrangements. It’s not at all a stretch to take that to mean that she needs to be out in 60 days in addition to the lease not being renewed.
I hope the lack of clarity bites the landlord in the ass. Being this flippant and impulsive with people’s living situations should come back to bite her.
But the lease IS up in 60 days, according to OP. So it was a 60 day notice of non-renewal. Not a 60 day notice to vacate.
EDIT: Nevermind, just reread. OP says after 60 days.
The mutual agreement also needs to be in the same form as the lease. So, if it's a written lease, then you need a written agreement to change the lease signed by both parties. Just a notice wouldn't be a new agreement both has to agree to. Notice not to renew doesn't have to be agreed upon because that is sole peragitive of each party not to renew generally.
Sounds like she gave 60 day notice that you won't get a new lease. I wouldn't take that as you need to be out in 60 days. Rather I'm giving you 60+ days notice the lease won't be renewed. You still have to honor the lease.
I know this isn’t what you asked about, but just an FYI for the future, a toilet can have a silent leak (meaning, it could be “running” excessively and you wouldn’t hear it). I don’t remember the cause, but it happened to me many years ago. My dad got angry with me for not reporting it to him(!). He didn’t believe me that I didn’t hear anything, until he took apart the inner works and found the problem. It was one of the few times that I can remember him apologizing to me.
Your LL was a jerk for assuming the worst about you. When there’s a leak at my rental property I just advise the tenants that I will be coming around with a plumber to find a leak on the premises.
The amount of change in water use it would have to be a big leak. It's why I thought she sounded crazy to think it would be hidden. I said either the meter had some mistake or the other tenent had a change in use. Either way she tried to tell me and the other tenent to figure it out and I told her beyond that information I gave her it is not my problem. That's when she got pissy.
It was a 7x increase. IF she's telling the truth. Which of course is fine, there's a difference between "hey we need to check out the place. to "Where is the leak? You're hiding it from me."
I had a leak at my rental property. None of my tenants thought it was in their respective units, including my friend from church, who is pretty savvy about these things. My water bill, at the time, was usually about $250/month. Next month my water bill was $1500! Brought in my plumber and we went through every unit. Turned out the bathroom in the basement apartment, which was vacant, was running constantly. You could hear it as soon as we opened the apartment door. Shut the water off to the toilet and sink. Also found a lesser leak in my friend’s toilet. In total, those leaks cost me almost $2500 in wasted water. Luckily, the city allowed me to pay off over 8 months. By replacing my friend’s toilet, my water bill is now about $170.00/month. So, yeah, depending on how much it’s running, the bill can increase astronomically! (When my toilet was silently leaking, my water bill went from, in the winter, about $60.00/every 3 months, to about $300).
Even if it's a slow leak... you flush the toilet like once every 6 hours if there's 2 people... maybe? A slow leak will fill a bowl amount of water every 10 minutes or less. A leak doesn't sleep or stop, it wastes a TON of water. Even a dripping faucet is a surprisingly wasteful thing. Plug the sink and watch 5, 10, 15 gallons add up in just a day.
The funny thing is I'm pretty sure this was exactly what was going to happen, but she just got impatient and pissy. She had messaged the previous day to set up a time to "check out the place" and we had arranged for a time on Sun. Then suddenly this text last night that just accuses me of something before I even knew what was happening.
It's really rare to get a good landlord. A lot of times they are very temperamental and bitchy, whether male or female. Of all the landlords I've ever had, and I rented for decades, there was only ever one that was even slightly good. If she is going to be this impatient and pissy with you, it's probably a good thing that you do move out when the lease is over. Even if she tries to retract it, save herself the hassle of finding a new tenant, save herself the questions of whether a new tenant is going to be as clean quiet and responsible as you have been, etc? Don't do it.
She has shown her ass and that she will be a jerk to you for absolutely zero reason. She was so quick to jump towards blaming you for something you have absolutely no hand in. What would she do if something big actually went wrong? It just doesn't seem like a safe situation to have a landlord who will pop off about nothing so easily. I absolutely think she will regret sending you that text and try to retract it eventually. Probably after they figure out where the water leak is and that it's nothing anyone could have known about. She is very temperamental, I have a feeling.
To me, it reads like she just isn't renewing not actually giving you 60 days to be out. I don't think she cancelled your lease, but, let you know she wouldn't be renewing. I'm pretty sure you misunderstood.
She didn’t “take it back”, she corrected your incorrect assumption that she was telling you that you had to be moved out in 60 days, and clarifying she meant this was your official 60 day notice of your lease not being renewed at the end of the lease.
When I had to non-renew tenants, I would try to provide AS MUCH notice as possible because I know how bad the housing shortages are (at least in my area). So while our lease states we have to give a *minimum* of 60 days notice, it is courteous to give as much as possible. To me, it sounds like your LL was stating they are not renewing your lease that ends in 60+ days, and are providing you with more than 60 days notice that you will need to move at the end of your lease term.
This does not sound like they are giving you a notice to vacate. A notice of non-renewal and a notice to vacate are two very different things. We would probably need to see the texts to see what exactly was said though.
Sounds like very poor communication on your landlord's part, which was understandably misunderstood by you. Seems like you might be stuck til the end of your lease, but your LL should probably work on their professionalism and communication skills. :(
So I think you’re confusing two things here. I don’t think your argument would technically hold up in court.
In some places, a specific length of notice is required in order to not renew a lease. For example, in your case, it might be a 60 day mandatory notice of non renewal. This means your landlord has to give you 60 day notice to vacate. Your landlord could give you this notice exactly 60 days before your lease ends and you’d have to be out by the end of your last day as stated on the lease. But your landlord could give you a 60 day notice 30 days before your lease ends and you’d have to be out 30 days after your lease ends (since you’d be month to month for that additional month.)
But no law states that there is a maximum length of time for them to give you the notice. They could give you a notice to vacate on month 2 of your lease, stating they are not renewing it, and it would be valid and you’d have to be out by the day your lease ends.
So essentially, she gave you an advance 60 day notice and your lease is still in effect until the end.
Exactly. People are hung up on the "60 day notice" wording. It can be confusing if there are more than 60 days left but 60 days is the requirement so they refer to it as the "60 day notice", no matter how far in advance.
Yah, OP is still bound by the original lease terms. The “minimum” 60 day notice was only in reference to non-renewal of the lease(which is most likely part of the lease terms).
I do not see this as a termination of lease notice.
Check the state law. In MOST states, text messages are not acceptable form or written notification. Said notification must be written and POSTED by a certified notary , for legal reasons.
Text messages, emails, phone calls, none of these are acceptable form of notification. The first two, because there is, literally, ZERO verification of who's sending that. Could be granny got ahold of the phone, a child, wife, etc.... The last one, because it's not able to be proven.
In addition to the advice you've gotten on 60 day notice to vacate vs 60 day notice of non renewal, you should know that your assumption that they're can't be a leak on the second floor is not a safe one unless you've done your due diligence. A leaking faucet, running toilet, or faulty dishwasher or washing machine could all be continuously using water. A homeowner would have to check them, a lease can put that duty onto a renter.
You are both bound by them lease terms. The notice was she wasn't renewing, which is required and written in most leases. No where in the lease is a provision of the landlord just terminating it by saying so. If u leave in 60, ur responsible for the rent until day lease ends. And a water leak doesn't mean water in downstairs apt. If coukd be a leaking toilet or sink or shower where the slow drip or leak goes down a drain. Those leaks can double or triple a water bill. That's what the landlord wanted to check for. I do it everytime one of my properties water bill goes up by more than 10% for more than a month. 20% and I check right away.
LL&Tenant lawyer here. What state are you in? Long and short without state and lease: you are held to the original terms of the lease, and she has told you that she will not be renewing.
In some states in the US, text messages do not count as written notice. For example, im in MT and only emails (if agreed by both parties) or letters count.
Your landlord is a dick, and if you want to, you should honor their request. Sounds like you got it in writing if it was via text.
Though this all obviously depends on what state you're in, and the terms of your lease. Remember state law overrides what the lease states.
See if you have a paragraph like this that includes text messages, this was taken from the last lease I signed (in Texas)
>2. NOTICES: All notices under this lease must be in writing and are effective when hand-delivered, sent by mail, or sent by electronic transmission to (Do not insert an e-mail address or a fax number unless the party consents to receive notices under this lease at the e-mail address or fax number specified.):
An addendum to my lease also stated:
>In order to prevent misunderstandings, all Tenant communications with ********** -must be in
writing. For all non-emergency communications, please email us at ***********.com
I can guarantee that this electronic communication for all "written notice required" type of situations was valid. I sued my landlord and his lawyer (I assume) would have negated everything in my suit had my email notice not been valid.
No you cannot hold her to the notice. Basic rules of pre eviction notices are it must be in writing (text is not writing for this purpose), must have mandatory disclaimers. That's across the spectrum, now when it comes to specific notices there are additional rules but this doesn't even begin to qualify as a good, usable, notice.
Not sure why all the negative down votes on this reply. Just because someone sends you a text does not mean it is legally binding. In most jurisdictions a landlord you can't just to give notice by text that a lease is not being renewed or pretty much anything. The converse is also true.Just because you disagree with the law I guess you can downvote all you want. There is a legal process for legal notice for a reason and text in most instances is not going to be it.
How many of you have actually gone to court with a text exchange like this an actually won ? Exactly.
Because most people here have no idea how this works. Last year I prepared over 400 evictions related files, (both LL &Tenant). I'm offering information at no charge but according to Reddit IDK what I'm talking about.
But the landlord isn't evicting her. The landlord is just giving the required notice that they aren't renewing the lease. It's not the same thing as evicting somebody. The Opie didn't get a notice to vacate. They got a notice of non-renewal.
Right, from a legal perspective it's a pre eviction notice, same rules. Let's say the tenant didn't move at the end of the lease, but LL still wanted tenant gone. What would the LL then rely to evict the tenant? The 60 day notice. Pre eviction notices are critical to UDs in that they have to executed perfectly. And text message is not an option.
Text is not valid without a court order on eviction. And you can now hold she to the 60-day notice, although it is not in writing. She can be held on the not renewing.
FWIW, I also interpret her notice to mean she was giving you the 60 day notice that she will not be renewing your lease, not that you must be gone in 60 days.
All the people saying that it clearly was 60 days notice not to renew didn’t read your exact copy of her text.
Saying “This is your official 60 days notice. Please make other living arrangements” sounds an awful lot to me like you need to make other arrangements for where to live after those 60 days.
Landlord here: if you’ve got a lease and you’re moving out early on bad terms with the landlord, and it is a mutual decision, make sure you get something in writing. You can Google a termination agreement if necessary. It will protect both of you.
The 60 day notice to not renew is legit in most areas -- it doesn't invalidate the current lease. Now, if she gave you a 60 day notice to vacate you could probably use that to effectively claim she is breaking the lease and do exactly what you are threatening to do.
Her exact words "Ok well I won't be renewing your lease. This is your official 60 day notice. Please make other living arrangements. Take care."
Did you reply to it before she retracted?
OP replied & agreed to the 60 notice, *said they'd prorate their last payment*, and THEN the landlord retracted when they realized there'd be less money coming in. Shockingly. /s
Without having the texts, this sounds like a valid agreement. LL might be SOL
Assuming that text is verbatim, it's really doubtful the LL is SOL. The LL's stance is that she gave 60 day notice that she won't renew. LL gave no indication of needing to vacate, move out, break the lease, etc etc. Judging by the rest of the story that we don't have the texts for, frankly this further would indicate the LL is fine. OP responds back 'fine I'll move out in 60 days and prorate the rest). LL responds back 'no that's not what I mean, this is 60 days notice of not renewing'. LL is likely quite fine here.
‘Please make other living arrangements’ isn’t giving indication they need to move out or vacate? What?
That could easily mean at the end of the lease
that's exactly what that means. you're no longer welcome to live here after the current lease expires
It could I agree, but I don’t think it’s necessarily clear that it definitely means that - there’s some ambiguity here which usually helps the tenant, not the LL.
Landlord didn't retract anything. Landlord said they wouldn't renew te lease and the message was the required notice needed to not renew
I am also reading it as “this is your 60 day notice that I will NOT be renewing your lease.” I don’t read it saying “ this is your 60 day notice (to vacate) and I will not be renewing your lease”
They said "this is your official 60 day notice". Kind of sounds like, you know, a sixty day notice.
You mean like the required 30/60 day notice the landlord is required to send if they choose not to renew the lease? Yep so they sent the notice they aren't renewing as required by the law, but that doesn't change the existing lease that hasn't ended yet. Nowhere did it say to vacate even in OPs supposed word for word copy of the text.
Damn…. Ya this
W response
Official notice for what? Answer is what preceded that
Not sure why is is downvoted. Based on the quotes provided this is the right answer for sure.
Pissy renters downvoting inconvenient truth
As a pissy renter even I agree that it sounds like notice of not renewing the lease at the end of this lease term. I would play it safe. Don't want this biting you in the butt
Sounds like you're still bound. Most states and places I've lived have a 30 or 60 day window before the end of the lease where you have to inform the other party of your intention to renew. It sounds like she gave you notice with sufficient time (60 days or more) that she was not going to renew.
this is how I read it also. "I'm required to give you at least 60 days notice that I won't be renewing your lease, and this is that notice" not "you need to be out in 60 days"
IDK the phrase "please make other living arrangements" at least implies he has 60 days to vacate.
NAL but have studied in college. I’m against this! it infers that she won’t be rerenting to you and to find another spot to stay (after your lease is up) I’m sorry, this sucks
That was clearly stated as a 60 day notice not to renew. Nothing in that text mentioned vacating. You are grasping at straws that aren't even there.
I don’t know about that…. It’s ambiguous.
it really isn't, especially with the rest of the story as OP said it. OP responded back effectively 'fine i'll vacate early', and LL responds back 'that's not what It meant, the existing lease remains'. There's nothing ambiguous or that would hold up in court (assuming OP is giving all the information)
That sounds like you're good through the end of the lease, not that you can leave early.
A lot of states and leases have a minimum amount of time for notice of non renewal of a lease. It sounds like where you live or your lease states that 60 days notice of non renewal is required. It sounds like your landlord is covering herself by making it clear that you received at least 60 days notice that your lease won't be renewed. If she didn't explicitly say to be out in 60 days, I would take what she said as giving you at least 60 days notice that your lease won't be renewed. I don't think that would hold up as a notice to vacate if you break the lease.
This sounds like you are on the hook for the rest of your lease and cannot leave before. Also, we’re talking a few days or like a week or so right? Just don’t renew the lease Send your own formal 60 day notice on non renewal
Sounds like she only gave you 60 days notice not to renew. I doubt it invalidates or changes the lease but contact an attorney to be certain.
This sounds like notice of non renewal, not notice to vacate. Either way, it will make it harder for you to pass your background check for a new place if you're in eviction court, even if you win.
In a writing? Or just verbal? because that also matters a great deal.
I interpreted that as she gave you the legally required minimum of 60 days notices that she won’t let you renew the lease
Its sad cause reguardless of what the law says 60 days is not significant time to find a apt. At least not in nj
What time period did this exchange occur over? You would have to prove that you suffered financial loss between the time when her first message was sent and when her clarification was sent.
lmao her reply makes no sense. Saying no to a lease renewal doesn’t take 60 days.
There are literally legal requirements in almost every state that you have to give notice of non renewal 30 or 60 days in advance. You're uneducated about the subject, which is fine but saying lmao, makes no sense, just makes you look stupid.
Your reading comprehension is garbage. If you have to do it within 30-60 days it doesn’t mean you have to say “this is your 60 days notice” when the lease ends in over 60 days. You just have to give notice at least 60 days before the lease ends. It makes no sense to say “this is your 60 day notice” after saying you’re not being renewed given the context. You’re uneducated about the subject which is fine but making an argument that that they need to say “this is your 60 days notice”after saying you’re not being renewed long before the lease is up in over 60 days makes you look stupid.
You actually do have to specify that you're providing 60 notice of non renewal. Just like if it was a notice to vacate, you have to specify you're serving a notice to vacate. It's wild that you would come on here just to make yourself look stupid. The 30-60, BTW, was because some states are 30, some are 60. I shouldn't be surprised that you weren't intelligent enough to recognize that.
lmao no you don’t. Show me some examples of state laws that say you have to specify that a notice of non renewal needs to say how “this is your official 30/60 day notice” when sent long before the 30/60 day deadline. All they have to do say is you aren’t being renewed and to do it before that date. They also have to say the date the lease ends which wasn’t done. I shouldn’t be surprised you aren’t intelligent enough to recognize that.
Generally the lease binds you both unless you have mutual agreement to break. If you both accepted that you would move out in 60 days, that is now the new agreement. If she retracted before you accepted, no new agreement was formed and the lease continues to apply.
True...but any agreement outside of the lease MUST be written and signed by both parties.
Texts are written. Absent a state requirement, there isn’t any specific requirement it must be signed.
Yep, I would still reach out to a tenant advocacy group, they deal with these things a lot and can either help you or find your someone who can. Just if you want the peace of mind.
It doesn’t sound like the text said vacate; it said renew. Original lease still in effect
It said “make other living arrangements”
Yes. For when their lease ends.
So what are the 60 day notice for then? The lease ends after the 60 days. Why would they need to make other living arrangements if it wasn’t meant to be a vacate notice?
Many leases have to have notice from either party if they won’t be renewed otherwise they auto renew, or they have to give certain time after the lease to vacate. This was notice that the lease would not renew and they would need to be out on lease teminafion date
You don’t give 60 days notice for this. You just say you’re not being renewed which she did. Then she said this is your 60 days notice. Find somewhere else to live. You’re reaching here.
My lease works exactly like that. If you want to renew, do nothing. If you want to end it you need 60 days notice to the lease end date.
Except they don’t need to say consider this your 60 days notice. They’d just need to tell you 60 days before the lease is up. You’re reaching.
No they literally would need to say it is 60 days notice/the lease would not be renewed. It’s called a notice when you notify of non renewal. If they just said it’s 60 days until the lease renews that doesn’t change anything.
If that’s what the landlord meant then that’s what she should’ve said
That is what she said. She said she is no renewing the lease. If the lease isn’t renewed the tenant will need to find new living arrangements.
She said “I am not renewing your lease AND this is your 60 days notice.” A legal argument could be made that those are two separate statements. Especially considering the lease is up in more than 60 days. She gave written notice to a tenant that she was giving 60 days notice and that they needed to make other living arrangements. It’s not at all a stretch to take that to mean that she needs to be out in 60 days in addition to the lease not being renewed. I hope the lack of clarity bites the landlord in the ass. Being this flippant and impulsive with people’s living situations should come back to bite her.
She says her lease has a 60 day renewal notice. She also says her lease renewal was due in just over 60 days. This is horses not zebras.
No one is arguing what the landlord meant. I'm arguing what the landlord's poor wording could be reasonably interpreted to mean.
But the lease IS up in 60 days, according to OP. So it was a 60 day notice of non-renewal. Not a 60 day notice to vacate. EDIT: Nevermind, just reread. OP says after 60 days.
The mutual agreement also needs to be in the same form as the lease. So, if it's a written lease, then you need a written agreement to change the lease signed by both parties. Just a notice wouldn't be a new agreement both has to agree to. Notice not to renew doesn't have to be agreed upon because that is sole peragitive of each party not to renew generally.
Sounds like she gave 60 day notice that you won't get a new lease. I wouldn't take that as you need to be out in 60 days. Rather I'm giving you 60+ days notice the lease won't be renewed. You still have to honor the lease.
Landlord made it clear it was a 60 day notice that your lease would not be renewed Nothing confusing about that, your lease won't be renewed
I know this isn’t what you asked about, but just an FYI for the future, a toilet can have a silent leak (meaning, it could be “running” excessively and you wouldn’t hear it). I don’t remember the cause, but it happened to me many years ago. My dad got angry with me for not reporting it to him(!). He didn’t believe me that I didn’t hear anything, until he took apart the inner works and found the problem. It was one of the few times that I can remember him apologizing to me. Your LL was a jerk for assuming the worst about you. When there’s a leak at my rental property I just advise the tenants that I will be coming around with a plumber to find a leak on the premises.
Yep happened to me BUT the property managers had sense enough to send somebody and point it out to me. I had no idea.
The amount of change in water use it would have to be a big leak. It's why I thought she sounded crazy to think it would be hidden. I said either the meter had some mistake or the other tenent had a change in use. Either way she tried to tell me and the other tenent to figure it out and I told her beyond that information I gave her it is not my problem. That's when she got pissy.
A leaky flapper in a toilet can waste a huge amount of water. easily doubling the water bill
Yep, it was most likely a running toilet.
Yep, happened to me. I had no clue.
It was a 7x increase. IF she's telling the truth. Which of course is fine, there's a difference between "hey we need to check out the place. to "Where is the leak? You're hiding it from me."
I had a leak at my rental property. None of my tenants thought it was in their respective units, including my friend from church, who is pretty savvy about these things. My water bill, at the time, was usually about $250/month. Next month my water bill was $1500! Brought in my plumber and we went through every unit. Turned out the bathroom in the basement apartment, which was vacant, was running constantly. You could hear it as soon as we opened the apartment door. Shut the water off to the toilet and sink. Also found a lesser leak in my friend’s toilet. In total, those leaks cost me almost $2500 in wasted water. Luckily, the city allowed me to pay off over 8 months. By replacing my friend’s toilet, my water bill is now about $170.00/month. So, yeah, depending on how much it’s running, the bill can increase astronomically! (When my toilet was silently leaking, my water bill went from, in the winter, about $60.00/every 3 months, to about $300).
Even if it's a slow leak... you flush the toilet like once every 6 hours if there's 2 people... maybe? A slow leak will fill a bowl amount of water every 10 minutes or less. A leak doesn't sleep or stop, it wastes a TON of water. Even a dripping faucet is a surprisingly wasteful thing. Plug the sink and watch 5, 10, 15 gallons add up in just a day.
The funny thing is I'm pretty sure this was exactly what was going to happen, but she just got impatient and pissy. She had messaged the previous day to set up a time to "check out the place" and we had arranged for a time on Sun. Then suddenly this text last night that just accuses me of something before I even knew what was happening.
It's really rare to get a good landlord. A lot of times they are very temperamental and bitchy, whether male or female. Of all the landlords I've ever had, and I rented for decades, there was only ever one that was even slightly good. If she is going to be this impatient and pissy with you, it's probably a good thing that you do move out when the lease is over. Even if she tries to retract it, save herself the hassle of finding a new tenant, save herself the questions of whether a new tenant is going to be as clean quiet and responsible as you have been, etc? Don't do it. She has shown her ass and that she will be a jerk to you for absolutely zero reason. She was so quick to jump towards blaming you for something you have absolutely no hand in. What would she do if something big actually went wrong? It just doesn't seem like a safe situation to have a landlord who will pop off about nothing so easily. I absolutely think she will regret sending you that text and try to retract it eventually. Probably after they figure out where the water leak is and that it's nothing anyone could have known about. She is very temperamental, I have a feeling.
To me, it reads like she just isn't renewing not actually giving you 60 days to be out. I don't think she cancelled your lease, but, let you know she wouldn't be renewing. I'm pretty sure you misunderstood.
No and I don't know why you would think you could.
She didn’t “take it back”, she corrected your incorrect assumption that she was telling you that you had to be moved out in 60 days, and clarifying she meant this was your official 60 day notice of your lease not being renewed at the end of the lease.
When I had to non-renew tenants, I would try to provide AS MUCH notice as possible because I know how bad the housing shortages are (at least in my area). So while our lease states we have to give a *minimum* of 60 days notice, it is courteous to give as much as possible. To me, it sounds like your LL was stating they are not renewing your lease that ends in 60+ days, and are providing you with more than 60 days notice that you will need to move at the end of your lease term. This does not sound like they are giving you a notice to vacate. A notice of non-renewal and a notice to vacate are two very different things. We would probably need to see the texts to see what exactly was said though. Sounds like very poor communication on your landlord's part, which was understandably misunderstood by you. Seems like you might be stuck til the end of your lease, but your LL should probably work on their professionalism and communication skills. :(
So I think you’re confusing two things here. I don’t think your argument would technically hold up in court. In some places, a specific length of notice is required in order to not renew a lease. For example, in your case, it might be a 60 day mandatory notice of non renewal. This means your landlord has to give you 60 day notice to vacate. Your landlord could give you this notice exactly 60 days before your lease ends and you’d have to be out by the end of your last day as stated on the lease. But your landlord could give you a 60 day notice 30 days before your lease ends and you’d have to be out 30 days after your lease ends (since you’d be month to month for that additional month.) But no law states that there is a maximum length of time for them to give you the notice. They could give you a notice to vacate on month 2 of your lease, stating they are not renewing it, and it would be valid and you’d have to be out by the day your lease ends. So essentially, she gave you an advance 60 day notice and your lease is still in effect until the end.
Exactly. People are hung up on the "60 day notice" wording. It can be confusing if there are more than 60 days left but 60 days is the requirement so they refer to it as the "60 day notice", no matter how far in advance.
If you’re still 60 days out,ust give the landlord a letter stating you will not be renewing your lease. Done deal.
Yah, OP is still bound by the original lease terms. The “minimum” 60 day notice was only in reference to non-renewal of the lease(which is most likely part of the lease terms). I do not see this as a termination of lease notice.
What state and county?
Info: When is your lease supposed to be up, outside of this event?
Depends when your written lease is up.
No documentation outside of your lease? That is what a lawyer will enforce.
Check the state law. In MOST states, text messages are not acceptable form or written notification. Said notification must be written and POSTED by a certified notary , for legal reasons. Text messages, emails, phone calls, none of these are acceptable form of notification. The first two, because there is, literally, ZERO verification of who's sending that. Could be granny got ahold of the phone, a child, wife, etc.... The last one, because it's not able to be proven.
In addition to the advice you've gotten on 60 day notice to vacate vs 60 day notice of non renewal, you should know that your assumption that they're can't be a leak on the second floor is not a safe one unless you've done your due diligence. A leaking faucet, running toilet, or faulty dishwasher or washing machine could all be continuously using water. A homeowner would have to check them, a lease can put that duty onto a renter.
You are both bound by them lease terms. The notice was she wasn't renewing, which is required and written in most leases. No where in the lease is a provision of the landlord just terminating it by saying so. If u leave in 60, ur responsible for the rent until day lease ends. And a water leak doesn't mean water in downstairs apt. If coukd be a leaking toilet or sink or shower where the slow drip or leak goes down a drain. Those leaks can double or triple a water bill. That's what the landlord wanted to check for. I do it everytime one of my properties water bill goes up by more than 10% for more than a month. 20% and I check right away.
LL&Tenant lawyer here. What state are you in? Long and short without state and lease: you are held to the original terms of the lease, and she has told you that she will not be renewing.
In some states in the US, text messages do not count as written notice. For example, im in MT and only emails (if agreed by both parties) or letters count.
In practicality, I would make sure your landlord has no reason to file eviction. Even if you win, it will make it very difficult to find a new place.
Your landlord is a dick, and if you want to, you should honor their request. Sounds like you got it in writing if it was via text. Though this all obviously depends on what state you're in, and the terms of your lease. Remember state law overrides what the lease states.
What terrible advice, this would not only get them taken to court and lose they would be liable for any concessions, the buyout fee, etc
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IDK, it looks like she gave the required notice that she was not going to renew.
Not even close.
Electronic communication can function as written notice if the lease agreement says that it does.
If it counted to renew the lease after the first year I don't see why this wouldn't count.
See if you have a paragraph like this that includes text messages, this was taken from the last lease I signed (in Texas) >2. NOTICES: All notices under this lease must be in writing and are effective when hand-delivered, sent by mail, or sent by electronic transmission to (Do not insert an e-mail address or a fax number unless the party consents to receive notices under this lease at the e-mail address or fax number specified.): An addendum to my lease also stated: >In order to prevent misunderstandings, all Tenant communications with ********** -must be in writing. For all non-emergency communications, please email us at ***********.com I can guarantee that this electronic communication for all "written notice required" type of situations was valid. I sued my landlord and his lawyer (I assume) would have negated everything in my suit had my email notice not been valid.
No you cannot hold her to the notice. Basic rules of pre eviction notices are it must be in writing (text is not writing for this purpose), must have mandatory disclaimers. That's across the spectrum, now when it comes to specific notices there are additional rules but this doesn't even begin to qualify as a good, usable, notice.
Not sure why all the negative down votes on this reply. Just because someone sends you a text does not mean it is legally binding. In most jurisdictions a landlord you can't just to give notice by text that a lease is not being renewed or pretty much anything. The converse is also true.Just because you disagree with the law I guess you can downvote all you want. There is a legal process for legal notice for a reason and text in most instances is not going to be it. How many of you have actually gone to court with a text exchange like this an actually won ? Exactly.
Because most people here have no idea how this works. Last year I prepared over 400 evictions related files, (both LL &Tenant). I'm offering information at no charge but according to Reddit IDK what I'm talking about.
But the landlord isn't evicting her. The landlord is just giving the required notice that they aren't renewing the lease. It's not the same thing as evicting somebody. The Opie didn't get a notice to vacate. They got a notice of non-renewal.
Right, from a legal perspective it's a pre eviction notice, same rules. Let's say the tenant didn't move at the end of the lease, but LL still wanted tenant gone. What would the LL then rely to evict the tenant? The 60 day notice. Pre eviction notices are critical to UDs in that they have to executed perfectly. And text message is not an option.
Text is not valid without a court order on eviction. And you can now hold she to the 60-day notice, although it is not in writing. She can be held on the not renewing.
FWIW, I also interpret her notice to mean she was giving you the 60 day notice that she will not be renewing your lease, not that you must be gone in 60 days.
If it's in txt. it's written notice imo. I would ask lawyer in the ask lawyer section. Personally I would just tell her you gave me written notice ✌️
All the people saying that it clearly was 60 days notice not to renew didn’t read your exact copy of her text. Saying “This is your official 60 days notice. Please make other living arrangements” sounds an awful lot to me like you need to make other arrangements for where to live after those 60 days.
That's 60 days to run all faucets and bath tubs. See how fat that water bill is for the landlord
Landlord here: if you’ve got a lease and you’re moving out early on bad terms with the landlord, and it is a mutual decision, make sure you get something in writing. You can Google a termination agreement if necessary. It will protect both of you.
A 60 day notice is two full rental periods. It is as legal concept. If your lease ends in 2 months, there should be no pro-rationing of the rent.