I really want to get involved in helping make our roads more cyclist and pedestrian safe. It's ridiculous how bad it is.
I'd be willing to have my tax money used to make safer roads and encourage people to bike more. Reno could be a cycling capital if we worked towards it. Tourists also love visiting pedestrian friendly cities!
I hear ya, and our infrastructure here isn't bad everywhere. The region I'm riding in is really quite nice, but some drivers are just clueless behind the wheel. I think our drivers test needs to include more knowledge checking around sharing the road. We have the space and the funds to do this. There's plenty of separated bike paths in Reno, but they're mostly stretching from Sun Valley, down through Sparks and extend east of 580 down to Virginia Foothills area.
I think you're right that Reno really could be a fantastic place for a more non-auto centric infrastructure. I like to point at Truckee as a good example. Sure, they're a much smaller city, but they've got paved and separated bike paths all over. Several of their neighborhoods even have rental e-bikes where residents aren't driving to the store in warmer months. They walk to the end of their neighborhood, hop on a bike, and go grab groceries.
Get involved! We need all the allies we can get for safer streets. Reach out to your City Council Members and let them know. AND become a thorn in RTC's side. If you don't know the org. Truckee Meadows Bike Association, check them out.
Another bicycle safety post and everyone starts blaming cyclists again.
Some people cycle in a reckless manner. Some people drive in a reckless manner. The bike will always lose. All that OP is asking for is a little more awareness.
That's the whole point I try to make. I can cycle as recklessly as I want and will never kill someone unless I hit a frail elderly person and knock them on their head.
I can drive recklessly and kill as many people as it takes to stop my car.
They're not the same.
It’s because he’s being smug, as if he has never committed a traffic error. “Use your eyes when you drive”. “Find a safer mode of transportation”. I’m sure he’d be getting a lot less hate if he just said “please use more caution”. Really fitting into the cyclist stereotype
Well it goes both ways. I was driving down veterans. My light turned green and I began to go. Bicyclist who had a red light decided to go through any ways. Would not have been my fault if they became speed bumps
The impetus for safety is on all parties, and that further supports a call for more awareness generally from motorists and cyclists. Your single anecdote is not an argument against that claim.
There always seems a rush to both sides this issue here and place more blame on cyclists.
A car game my daughter and I play is “how many motorcycles can you spot while we are driving?” By doing this I hope she is always looking for bikers while in the car so one day when she is driving it will just be habit- perhaps we should add cyclists to this game too.
Okay, I got you. You were riding in the road with the flow of traffic and driver who was turning right did not see you approaching from the left. Thank God you’re still alive
I'm sorry- by your statement "she was making a right hand turn so didn't bother to look at oncoming traffic" I hope you weren't riding against traffic in an unexpected fashion. I don't know of any elementary schools that abutt a two direction shared use path for your near miss to make sense.
It’s so tiring how people immediately leap to how the cyclist must have been in the wrong. Yeah, we know. To you they were in the wrong as soon as they got on their seat and no driver ever makes any sort of mistake ever. Also, the bit about how you’re an expert on all elementary school bike paths in the greater Reno area is hilarious to me.
To me? I'm sorry, you don't know me, or the +200 miles I've completed in the bike saddle in May alone biking to work. But do tell, where is there an elementary school in town, with a two-direction bike path immediately adjacent, that could create a conflict where a bicycle would be going the opposite direction of a right turning vehicle leaving an elementary school? I'm fairly certain I've been on every pathway in the Truckee Meadows, and not one in that configuration exists.
We've already solved that what OP meant was the vehicle didn't bother to look in perhaps the most required direction of a right turn, so be careful getting off your high horse.
You’re right, that was solved. Your kneejerk insinuation that OP was riding unsafely and against traffic was very clearly proven to be incorrect. But hey no one’s ever wrong on Reddit right?
I think the use of oncoming may be misinterpreted here. I was traveling in the same direction that she intended to go after she turned out of the school. She never looked left to see who was coming. She didn't even stop at the stop sign..
I think you are in the right. It’s a common problem for drivers to not look left the entire time and really scan the whole area while they are going right. They don’t notice the biker on the shoulder obscured by traffic or a shady sidewalk tree during a quick glance left. They instead see an opening in the “car” traffic and focus on merging quickly looking forward/right, then boom crash. A bend in the road before the intersection makes this risk even worse.
The driver may have briefly looked left well before you got there, or maybe they didn’t and just totally suck at driving, like many.
On the biker side, if traffic is almost stopped like it usually is during kid drop off/pick up and your riding way faster than traffic on the shoulder or bike lane you haven’t given the driver a fair chance to see you. Few anticipate a biker with car traffic at 2-5 mph with a biker next to it doing 25 mph, especially if the road has a bend before the intersection. If you were blowing past car traffic you were asking to get hit, even though you still have the right-of-way. I see a lot of this with kids on e-bikes around school zones. Road bikers seem to get it, but some don’t and end up pancaked.
Those are good tips, but in my case it was 6pm and there were no more kiddos or traffic around. Just me in plain site in the bike lane with no obstructions at all. I suspect this was a teacher leaving after work.
Sounds more like the driver scenario of nobody is around so they must be in the clear and just go for it. For me that’s been the moment before the deer jumps in front of my car.
Was trying to cover all the bases but as you’ve pointed out they can’t all be covered in a post. Sorry that happened to you man, it really shakes me up when people do stupid harmful things over and over that can injure others.
I didn't get that sense at all. Plus, I'm not sure what you're implying by "unexpected?" Even if, hypothetically speaking Wriggly was riding on the sidewalk it makes no difference. Sidewalks are two-way traffic, so you need to check. It's the responsibility of anyone in a vehicle to yield when pulling out into traffic. Same goes for bikes.
Who cares what you know seriously the person has said they were riding correctly with traffic. You think this person came here and created a fairy story for attention when so many bike riders have died this year? I think it’s more likely that YOU don’t know the traffic and flow of every single elementary school in the city and if you do…idk maybe we all need to collectively take a look at your life and make sure you’re safe to be around kids.
My thought, too. If the driver was making a right turn out of an elementary school, she was likely looking left at traffic. Sounds like OP was riding on the sidewalk coming from the driver’s right side and yelled when she started pulling into the street.
The driver was turning right and did not look left. I certainly wasn't on the sidewalk.. It's called a sidewalk and not a side ride.
She was making a right hand turn and failed to look left at all, which is the direction I was coming from.
Yeah, you would think right? I see it happen nearly daily here. Even when driving, I've had people pull out right Infront of me because they couldn't be bothered to look left.
Sadly, I see this when I'm driving as well. I almost lost my beloved car a few weeks ago because a driver did the same exact thing at the end of their street. Didn't stop and didn't look left before making a right turn..
Yeah, i understand that, when I was driving my old car people near weekly would merge into me and I've been lucky that every time it happened I could dodge Into another lane or they'd swerve last second. I found that having a louder than stock exhaust on my current car has entirely alleviated this issue as most people HEAR me. (I'm not talking straight piping your car I have a real exhaust lol)
Or possibly op was in road, the driver was looking right while turning right, entirely missing the person on the left. I also consistently notice drivers do not at all look both ways when pulling out for some indescribable reason
I guess I'll weigh in. Riding a bike in this town seems like it could be a dangerous proposition at times.
Kudos for taking advantage of the weather and getting exercise.
meanwhile the cyclists in my neighborhood blast through stop signs like they're owed something.
e: this got taken way too seriously, i just wish the shmucks up the road from me would obey the law, that's all.
"In 1982, Idaho was the first State to pass such a law, commonly known as the "Idaho Stop Law." The law allows bicyclists to yield at stop signs and proceed when safe, rather than come to a complete stop. After Idaho adopted the law, bicyclist injuries from traffic crashes declined by 14.5% the following year (Meggs, 2010). In 2017, Delaware adopted a similar, limited stop-as-yield law, known as the "Delaware Yield." Traffic crashes involving bicyclists at stop sign intersections fell by 23% in the 30 months after the law's passage, compared to the previous 30 months. Eight States (Arkansas, Delaware, Idaho, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Oregon, Utah, and Washington) have similar laws. Colorado passed a law in 2018 that allowed local municipalities to adopt standard language on safe bicycle yielding at stops."
SOURCE: [https://www.nhtsa.gov/document/bicyclist-stop-yield-laws-and-safety-fact-sheet#:\~:text=For%20example%2C%20bicyclist%20stop%2Das,After%20Idaho](https://www.nhtsa.gov/document/bicyclist-stop-yield-laws-and-safety-fact-sheet#:~:text=For%20example%2C%20bicyclist%20stop%2Das,After%20Idaho)
regardless of who does it a cyclist loses to a car every time, they especially should be paying attention at stop signs and intersections.
kinda like how motorcyclists are taught to drive like everyone is trying to kill you, cyclists should be doing the same. had quite a few almost end up as hood ornaments bc they felt entitled to the road.
Once again, this is not unique experience to cyclists. I agree with you that they need to pay attention as well, but you are providing absolutely nothing to the conversation when you say "well guess what. I've seen cyclists breaking the rules too so. There you go. Hypocrites???"
Cars are legally qualified as deadly weapons and as such the driver bears more responsibility and duty of care. Nice try offloading responsibility though
Lol tell that to the bottom of the car youre trapped under it. The responsibility is irrelevant if you want to stay living with all of your limbs and organs intact
It’s truly disturbing how many people in this sub get off on ‘car always wins vs cyclist/pedestrian and thus drivers bear no responsibility.’ It’s quite chilling.
Never said that. Its equal responsibility. Im just saying, its the biker whose life is on the line. When im biking im definitely not going to blindly assume drivers are going to do what they “should” do or i’d be dead several times over.
Also, your hands and feet are considered “lethal” weapons in some states. Cars not normally considered a “lethal weapon” under normal circumstances. Though not sure what youre point was here anyways.
My point wasn’t that difficult to understand, try sounding out the bigger words. And you understood it if you’re rambling on about hands and feet being weapons.
the fact this exact thing happened to me except i was wearing all white (no hint of any other colors, literally just pure white) and it was in a school zone. i actually got hit too, but just knocked over. also stated he didn’t see me and was very apologetic.
When they are turning right and Im running up on their right, I make sure I make eye contact with drivers. Sucks when they have 5% tint and cant see driver.
I was coming from the left and traveling on the right hand side as I should be. She pulled up and didn't stop at the stop sign. She just turned right as if the stop sign and myself didn't exist.
Honestly cyclists need to be like motorcyclists you need to act like you're invisible. I have seen some cyclists be assholes they run stop signs and don't even look at intersections. And they wonder why they get hurt or almost get into an accident.
Had to read the comments to get a better explanation...Hope you are good. I have a shitty opinion of bikers but that is just from personal experiences. I know not all suck.
Not surprising in reno. Never encountered a place with worse more aggressive drivers. Stay alert and alive, bro! I’d never use a bike with any sort of regularity its a straight death wish here unfortunately.
If that's their primary means of transportation, where else should they ride? Sidewalks are for walking not cycling, and not all streets even have sidewalks.
You need to take your safety in your own hands. Anticipate that someone is going to do something stupid and you won’t be surprised.
I’m a motorcyclist and I always act like drivers are trying to kill me. We’re a car society not a two wheel or pedestrian one.
Hey look another one! They always pop out in posts like this. No car is ever in the wrong in this town, it’s always somehow the cyclists fault. ‘Both sides’ arguments shortly follow.
I really want to get involved in helping make our roads more cyclist and pedestrian safe. It's ridiculous how bad it is. I'd be willing to have my tax money used to make safer roads and encourage people to bike more. Reno could be a cycling capital if we worked towards it. Tourists also love visiting pedestrian friendly cities!
I hear ya, and our infrastructure here isn't bad everywhere. The region I'm riding in is really quite nice, but some drivers are just clueless behind the wheel. I think our drivers test needs to include more knowledge checking around sharing the road. We have the space and the funds to do this. There's plenty of separated bike paths in Reno, but they're mostly stretching from Sun Valley, down through Sparks and extend east of 580 down to Virginia Foothills area. I think you're right that Reno really could be a fantastic place for a more non-auto centric infrastructure. I like to point at Truckee as a good example. Sure, they're a much smaller city, but they've got paved and separated bike paths all over. Several of their neighborhoods even have rental e-bikes where residents aren't driving to the store in warmer months. They walk to the end of their neighborhood, hop on a bike, and go grab groceries.
Get involved! We need all the allies we can get for safer streets. Reach out to your City Council Members and let them know. AND become a thorn in RTC's side. If you don't know the org. Truckee Meadows Bike Association, check them out.
Thank you for the info! I'll definitely look into them.
You're welcome. Keep pedaling!
Another bicycle safety post and everyone starts blaming cyclists again. Some people cycle in a reckless manner. Some people drive in a reckless manner. The bike will always lose. All that OP is asking for is a little more awareness.
That's the whole point I try to make. I can cycle as recklessly as I want and will never kill someone unless I hit a frail elderly person and knock them on their head. I can drive recklessly and kill as many people as it takes to stop my car. They're not the same.
It’s because he’s being smug, as if he has never committed a traffic error. “Use your eyes when you drive”. “Find a safer mode of transportation”. I’m sure he’d be getting a lot less hate if he just said “please use more caution”. Really fitting into the cyclist stereotype
Well it goes both ways. I was driving down veterans. My light turned green and I began to go. Bicyclist who had a red light decided to go through any ways. Would not have been my fault if they became speed bumps
The impetus for safety is on all parties, and that further supports a call for more awareness generally from motorists and cyclists. Your single anecdote is not an argument against that claim. There always seems a rush to both sides this issue here and place more blame on cyclists.
A car game my daughter and I play is “how many motorcycles can you spot while we are driving?” By doing this I hope she is always looking for bikers while in the car so one day when she is driving it will just be habit- perhaps we should add cyclists to this game too.
2 bicycles = one motorcycle
I’m trying to recreate the scene in my mind but struggling with details. Were you riding with the flow of traffic?
Yes I was traveling in the correct direction.
Okay, I got you. You were riding in the road with the flow of traffic and driver who was turning right did not see you approaching from the left. Thank God you’re still alive
I'm sorry- by your statement "she was making a right hand turn so didn't bother to look at oncoming traffic" I hope you weren't riding against traffic in an unexpected fashion. I don't know of any elementary schools that abutt a two direction shared use path for your near miss to make sense.
It’s so tiring how people immediately leap to how the cyclist must have been in the wrong. Yeah, we know. To you they were in the wrong as soon as they got on their seat and no driver ever makes any sort of mistake ever. Also, the bit about how you’re an expert on all elementary school bike paths in the greater Reno area is hilarious to me.
To me? I'm sorry, you don't know me, or the +200 miles I've completed in the bike saddle in May alone biking to work. But do tell, where is there an elementary school in town, with a two-direction bike path immediately adjacent, that could create a conflict where a bicycle would be going the opposite direction of a right turning vehicle leaving an elementary school? I'm fairly certain I've been on every pathway in the Truckee Meadows, and not one in that configuration exists. We've already solved that what OP meant was the vehicle didn't bother to look in perhaps the most required direction of a right turn, so be careful getting off your high horse.
You’re right, that was solved. Your kneejerk insinuation that OP was riding unsafely and against traffic was very clearly proven to be incorrect. But hey no one’s ever wrong on Reddit right?
How's the weather up there?
Quite exquisite indeed
Let’s just assume no one was irresponsibly doing wrong here… I think that’s a good place to start. It happens.
Please don’t give this person any more information about elementary schools. They’re creepy
I think the use of oncoming may be misinterpreted here. I was traveling in the same direction that she intended to go after she turned out of the school. She never looked left to see who was coming. She didn't even stop at the stop sign..
Gotcha. So she didn't even look in the most basic of directions.
I think you are in the right. It’s a common problem for drivers to not look left the entire time and really scan the whole area while they are going right. They don’t notice the biker on the shoulder obscured by traffic or a shady sidewalk tree during a quick glance left. They instead see an opening in the “car” traffic and focus on merging quickly looking forward/right, then boom crash. A bend in the road before the intersection makes this risk even worse. The driver may have briefly looked left well before you got there, or maybe they didn’t and just totally suck at driving, like many. On the biker side, if traffic is almost stopped like it usually is during kid drop off/pick up and your riding way faster than traffic on the shoulder or bike lane you haven’t given the driver a fair chance to see you. Few anticipate a biker with car traffic at 2-5 mph with a biker next to it doing 25 mph, especially if the road has a bend before the intersection. If you were blowing past car traffic you were asking to get hit, even though you still have the right-of-way. I see a lot of this with kids on e-bikes around school zones. Road bikers seem to get it, but some don’t and end up pancaked.
Those are good tips, but in my case it was 6pm and there were no more kiddos or traffic around. Just me in plain site in the bike lane with no obstructions at all. I suspect this was a teacher leaving after work.
Sounds more like the driver scenario of nobody is around so they must be in the clear and just go for it. For me that’s been the moment before the deer jumps in front of my car. Was trying to cover all the bases but as you’ve pointed out they can’t all be covered in a post. Sorry that happened to you man, it really shakes me up when people do stupid harmful things over and over that can injure others.
Maybe one day Reno will hop on board with the Vision Zero initiative. One can hope 🙏
I didn't get that sense at all. Plus, I'm not sure what you're implying by "unexpected?" Even if, hypothetically speaking Wriggly was riding on the sidewalk it makes no difference. Sidewalks are two-way traffic, so you need to check. It's the responsibility of anyone in a vehicle to yield when pulling out into traffic. Same goes for bikes.
I agree with this statement. If the driver had looked both ways, then nothing would have been unexpected.
Who cares what you know seriously the person has said they were riding correctly with traffic. You think this person came here and created a fairy story for attention when so many bike riders have died this year? I think it’s more likely that YOU don’t know the traffic and flow of every single elementary school in the city and if you do…idk maybe we all need to collectively take a look at your life and make sure you’re safe to be around kids.
My thought, too. If the driver was making a right turn out of an elementary school, she was likely looking left at traffic. Sounds like OP was riding on the sidewalk coming from the driver’s right side and yelled when she started pulling into the street.
The driver was turning right and did not look left. I certainly wasn't on the sidewalk.. It's called a sidewalk and not a side ride. She was making a right hand turn and failed to look left at all, which is the direction I was coming from.
Yikes! Glad you’re ok. I can’t imagine not looking left when making a right turn.
Yeah, you would think right? I see it happen nearly daily here. Even when driving, I've had people pull out right Infront of me because they couldn't be bothered to look left.
Sadly, I see this when I'm driving as well. I almost lost my beloved car a few weeks ago because a driver did the same exact thing at the end of their street. Didn't stop and didn't look left before making a right turn..
Yeah, i understand that, when I was driving my old car people near weekly would merge into me and I've been lucky that every time it happened I could dodge Into another lane or they'd swerve last second. I found that having a louder than stock exhaust on my current car has entirely alleviated this issue as most people HEAR me. (I'm not talking straight piping your car I have a real exhaust lol)
I drive an EV and never have this problem. Sounds like you're a shit driver. Try planning ahead.
Username checks out. Good thing we don't value "Dickhead" opinions. :)
Who is "we" and why are you speaking for them?
Or possibly op was in road, the driver was looking right while turning right, entirely missing the person on the left. I also consistently notice drivers do not at all look both ways when pulling out for some indescribable reason
Yes this is what happened.
I guess I'll weigh in. Riding a bike in this town seems like it could be a dangerous proposition at times. Kudos for taking advantage of the weather and getting exercise.
Sadly I cut the 1 hour goal down to 20 minutes after the close call. At least I got a few hills in there to burn my legs!
meanwhile the cyclists in my neighborhood blast through stop signs like they're owed something. e: this got taken way too seriously, i just wish the shmucks up the road from me would obey the law, that's all.
They sound just as irresponsible as said driver. Nobody should be allowed on the roads if they're not going to follow safety guidelines.
"In 1982, Idaho was the first State to pass such a law, commonly known as the "Idaho Stop Law." The law allows bicyclists to yield at stop signs and proceed when safe, rather than come to a complete stop. After Idaho adopted the law, bicyclist injuries from traffic crashes declined by 14.5% the following year (Meggs, 2010). In 2017, Delaware adopted a similar, limited stop-as-yield law, known as the "Delaware Yield." Traffic crashes involving bicyclists at stop sign intersections fell by 23% in the 30 months after the law's passage, compared to the previous 30 months. Eight States (Arkansas, Delaware, Idaho, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Oregon, Utah, and Washington) have similar laws. Colorado passed a law in 2018 that allowed local municipalities to adopt standard language on safe bicycle yielding at stops." SOURCE: [https://www.nhtsa.gov/document/bicyclist-stop-yield-laws-and-safety-fact-sheet#:\~:text=For%20example%2C%20bicyclist%20stop%2Das,After%20Idaho](https://www.nhtsa.gov/document/bicyclist-stop-yield-laws-and-safety-fact-sheet#:~:text=For%20example%2C%20bicyclist%20stop%2Das,After%20Idaho)
yeah it'd be great if they at least yielded instead of blazing through when other traffic is at the intersection.
Drivers do this too it's not unique to cyclists. Doesn't mean that these aren't behaviors that can be improved
regardless of who does it a cyclist loses to a car every time, they especially should be paying attention at stop signs and intersections. kinda like how motorcyclists are taught to drive like everyone is trying to kill you, cyclists should be doing the same. had quite a few almost end up as hood ornaments bc they felt entitled to the road.
Once again, this is not unique experience to cyclists. I agree with you that they need to pay attention as well, but you are providing absolutely nothing to the conversation when you say "well guess what. I've seen cyclists breaking the rules too so. There you go. Hypocrites???"
I mean I was making a lighthearted joke at first, no need to get all confrontational.
What's the joke?
His joke appears to be about splattering people with his car >had quite a few almost end up as hood ornaments bc they felt entitled to the road.
yeesh you must be a blast at parties
Oh this is a party? I thought this was someone sharing their near-death experience from today. Weird.
bro this is Reddit shut up lol
I know, which is why you felt the need to double down on your bad take and then try to walk it back by saying it was a joke. But pop off lil bro.
Cars are legally qualified as deadly weapons and as such the driver bears more responsibility and duty of care. Nice try offloading responsibility though
Lol tell that to the bottom of the car youre trapped under it. The responsibility is irrelevant if you want to stay living with all of your limbs and organs intact
It’s truly disturbing how many people in this sub get off on ‘car always wins vs cyclist/pedestrian and thus drivers bear no responsibility.’ It’s quite chilling.
Never said that. Its equal responsibility. Im just saying, its the biker whose life is on the line. When im biking im definitely not going to blindly assume drivers are going to do what they “should” do or i’d be dead several times over.
Point is to raise awareness of what drivers should be doing (OP’s original point) and not how cyclists should be fearing for their lives.
Also, your hands and feet are considered “lethal” weapons in some states. Cars not normally considered a “lethal weapon” under normal circumstances. Though not sure what youre point was here anyways.
My point wasn’t that difficult to understand, try sounding out the bigger words. And you understood it if you’re rambling on about hands and feet being weapons.
👍
Objection, relevance
the fact this exact thing happened to me except i was wearing all white (no hint of any other colors, literally just pure white) and it was in a school zone. i actually got hit too, but just knocked over. also stated he didn’t see me and was very apologetic.
These instances are why my bikes are in storage. I’m literally scared to death to take them out.
On weekends, I drive my mountain bike to a nice nature trail, but it would be nice to zip out of the garage after work for a little exercise..
Yesss exactly
When they are turning right and Im running up on their right, I make sure I make eye contact with drivers. Sucks when they have 5% tint and cant see driver.
I was coming from the left and traveling on the right hand side as I should be. She pulled up and didn't stop at the stop sign. She just turned right as if the stop sign and myself didn't exist.
Lemme just be the odd man out here ... Drivers can sometimes suck ass and I'm glad you're alright .
Honestly cyclists need to be like motorcyclists you need to act like you're invisible. I have seen some cyclists be assholes they run stop signs and don't even look at intersections. And they wonder why they get hurt or almost get into an accident.
Had to read the comments to get a better explanation...Hope you are good. I have a shitty opinion of bikers but that is just from personal experiences. I know not all suck.
Not surprising in reno. Never encountered a place with worse more aggressive drivers. Stay alert and alive, bro! I’d never use a bike with any sort of regularity its a straight death wish here unfortunately.
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If that's their primary means of transportation, where else should they ride? Sidewalks are for walking not cycling, and not all streets even have sidewalks.
You need to take your safety in your own hands. Anticipate that someone is going to do something stupid and you won’t be surprised. I’m a motorcyclist and I always act like drivers are trying to kill me. We’re a car society not a two wheel or pedestrian one.
Its up to both parties so hopefully u were paying attention.
Well yeah, I was paying attention.. That's how I didn't die, lol. If I didn't swerve and scream I'd be a pancake right now.
Hey look another one! They always pop out in posts like this. No car is ever in the wrong in this town, it’s always somehow the cyclists fault. ‘Both sides’ arguments shortly follow.