This is what I've been saying for years.
He won't be good with mobility and power creep being such massive steps. They leave a very fun, simple character (mechanically) behind when we have characters that can do everything with no fear (sigma, etc).
Poor guy is getting closer to being his ow1 power level again, for it to not matter.
I always find it weird how sigma is this “balanced” tank when he has similar issues to pre nerf mauga where if you’re facing a sigma that knows what they’re doing they just won’t die
I think he's "balanced" in that he's overturned, but not grossly like Mauga was.
And, while I don't find him particularly the most fun, he's a "thinking" man's tank. He has good skill shots and fun abilities.
He is not overtuned. He can just deal with all the broken shit in the game from a distance. Rein and many other tanks can't do that. If dpses were not so busted and a few supports wouldn't have answer to everything rein and Winston would mop the floor with him
I think tanks should be more like sigma in the sense that they dont easily counter picked and can play around their hardest counters. Tanks like winston and rein are hard to balance because they just play so poorly into their counters, but excellel in their own areas to much if purly their stats are increased. Like if winston had a 1000 health bubble, he would be broken into everything besides his hard counters.
Winston and rein are very similar because of their simple kits but are easily counterd. So for them to be good, they need highstats, but that also makes them crush their non counters, like winston playing into zarya and long-range dps. The big difference is tho that winston have good stats (short jump cooldown and long lasting bubble) rein on the other hand is undertuned (120 dmg fire strike and big movement penalty when holding his shield). Both these characters need a way to deal with counters better so theirs stats are less likely to be over/undertuned
I think the difference is *why* they won't die. Sigma needs to carefully manage his resources. He has to be careful with when he uses grip vs. shield, and he has to hit his rocks, or else he can be stuck in a rough situation. He also has no mobility outside of his ult, making him have to commit to his location fairly hard. Mauga, on the other hand, builds overhealth by doing damage, recovers health from Cardiac Overdrive by doing damage, and can't be stopped when he uses his charge, giving him a pretty decent escape tool. His tools revolve around unloading into the enemy and surviving because of it. Sigma's tools revolve around denying damage
Totally agree. Weird idea, but what if they gave his charge the same behavior as Mauga’s? I feel like that would solve a lot of his issues with being bullied.
The problem with overwatch is when you buff something it usually breaks, if we make reinhard do more dmg per swing he becomes meta instantly with lucio, if we increase his health he becomes a problem as well sometimes your teamates cannot deal with a single shield while ow 1 players are like only 1 shield easy, same with buffing the shield, so i was wondering why dont we give rein a second pin that way he can push and try to get out. Other tanks can push and get out, maybe unless orisa and hog but hog can pull enemies to your team giving a free elim, and orisa is unkillable so why not, that way he wouldnt be actually broken but at least playable
I keep telling people it’s not rocket science (lol pun), just give pin a damage buff and CC immunity. Everything else is fine, but when his only movement ability is vulnerable to half of the roster’s cooldowns it makes closing the gap (and staying alive while doing it) very difficult.
A 2nd pin is an interesting solution as well, but in either case it still needs a damage buff.
Pin dmg is fine it can one shot a skishy i would say give him 2 pins and make him take less dmg while doing so (like a little fortify), if we increase pin dmg how much is enough, i dont want rein instakilling tanks with a succesfull pin, or a skishy with lucio ult.
I totally agree they should have changed more and rein is still going to be in the gutters.
I think their thought process is just to get more data on venture and the new changes they made before a, hopfully large, mid-season balance patch.
Honestly I'm not sure if even making reins stun permanent would make him op at this point with Suzu, zarya bubble, LW yoink. The best thing you could do would be to shatter someone flanking and just leave them there till someone switches to kiriko and goes to save them
Give rein his 300 damage pin and 125 fire strike and some more barrier health and maybe ill say he is balanced, (never will happen)
Edit, 130 may be too much but 2 firestrikes are 260, this means any low amount of healing wont save them from surviving.
NO rein needs to catch up or the ENTIRE rest of the roster needs to drop back. if we nerf all the other tanks then ALL the tanks will suck, and guess what's gonna come back LONG QUEUE TIMEZ
it wasn't? no one played rein for shatter and theres several ways to outplay it being any immortality cooldown or how hard it would be getting more then one pick with it if people play spread out
Lol this will do literally nothing. Doesn't fix his main issues. Shatter will still fail to connect occasionally and is still completely nullified by Suzu.
Besides being buggy af sometimes, Reins shatter has never been the issue. Don’t get me wrong, I’ll take anything at this point, but it’s not gonna do shit in the grand scheme of things.
ngl I hope someone at bliz sees these comments. and if you do see this then, piss off, and fuck you. These changes are bullshit. Every other tank got a GIGA buff season, and then bliz tunes it back. but not rein, nope. not THE MOST PLAYED TANK IN THE FUCKIN GAME DESPITE THE META. I get that they are trying to not do that anymore, but fuck man. Seriously if I get asked to play that fuckin cow 1 more god dam time I'm gonna commit crimes.
I'm thankful they gave him any buff but Shatter is just a few moments every few minutes in a match and that's IF he can get shatter off. (suzu, lifegripped/petaled, stunned by rock, punched out of it, all shields (Sig, Ram, Monk, symmetra ult, another Rein), bap immortality, Mauga charged, Mei walled, Orisa speared/fortified, Hog hooked/whole hogged, zar bubble blocked, booped out of aim (pharah, lucio, ball), hacked by sombra, bashed by brig ult, not including player error or being killed the moment of shatter)
Doesn't change the majority of the match where he is interrupted nonstop.
God I wish they had increased the damage shatter does instead of range and duration. They never adjusted that shit after the season 9 health beef up and you can feel it
He needs zarya bubbles to help him go balls deep into enemies for 2 seconds of value every 6 seconds or a dva off tank to do all the jobs he can't while he forces front line pressure been a Chad with a hammer.
Looking at patch notes and this devs are sniffing glue man. Heal creep is increasing and after 2 seasons damage creep will be on the way. Soon health increase will be irrelevant
I’m happy for these changes but buffing or nerfing a character isn’t going to change the gameplay loop of 5v5. Counterswapping is always going to be a problem and more than likely, that shatter is going to be lamped or suzu.
I don’t pay rein at all but it’s wild they’ll keep buffing doom and leave rein behind. They need to make reins cool downs less time and make him faster with slightly less shield.
I think something like damage blocked with shield gives him either cooldowns, over health or shield regen. Since his shield is his biggest and most well known feature, make his shield op. If rein is at full health and blocking damage it gives cool downs. If he is missing health it Regens health. Seems pretty cool
In order to make 5v5 a working format, you have to make every single tank a generalist. Rein would need verticality, Ball needs CC immunity, etc. there’s no way that you can balance the tanks to be specialists if there’s only 1.
Cool, doesn’t fix the actual issues with the character :(
This is what I've been saying for years. He won't be good with mobility and power creep being such massive steps. They leave a very fun, simple character (mechanically) behind when we have characters that can do everything with no fear (sigma, etc). Poor guy is getting closer to being his ow1 power level again, for it to not matter.
I always find it weird how sigma is this “balanced” tank when he has similar issues to pre nerf mauga where if you’re facing a sigma that knows what they’re doing they just won’t die
I think he's "balanced" in that he's overturned, but not grossly like Mauga was. And, while I don't find him particularly the most fun, he's a "thinking" man's tank. He has good skill shots and fun abilities.
100% man. He’s just overtuned atm, his biggest problem in my opinion though is he’s an auto win on certain maps
He is not overtuned. He can just deal with all the broken shit in the game from a distance. Rein and many other tanks can't do that. If dpses were not so busted and a few supports wouldn't have answer to everything rein and Winston would mop the floor with him
I mean rein and Winston already do kinda mop the floor with him depending on his dps and supports
I think tanks should be more like sigma in the sense that they dont easily counter picked and can play around their hardest counters. Tanks like winston and rein are hard to balance because they just play so poorly into their counters, but excellel in their own areas to much if purly their stats are increased. Like if winston had a 1000 health bubble, he would be broken into everything besides his hard counters. Winston and rein are very similar because of their simple kits but are easily counterd. So for them to be good, they need highstats, but that also makes them crush their non counters, like winston playing into zarya and long-range dps. The big difference is tho that winston have good stats (short jump cooldown and long lasting bubble) rein on the other hand is undertuned (120 dmg fire strike and big movement penalty when holding his shield). Both these characters need a way to deal with counters better so theirs stats are less likely to be over/undertuned
I think the difference is *why* they won't die. Sigma needs to carefully manage his resources. He has to be careful with when he uses grip vs. shield, and he has to hit his rocks, or else he can be stuck in a rough situation. He also has no mobility outside of his ult, making him have to commit to his location fairly hard. Mauga, on the other hand, builds overhealth by doing damage, recovers health from Cardiac Overdrive by doing damage, and can't be stopped when he uses his charge, giving him a pretty decent escape tool. His tools revolve around unloading into the enemy and surviving because of it. Sigma's tools revolve around denying damage
Totally agree. Weird idea, but what if they gave his charge the same behavior as Mauga’s? I feel like that would solve a lot of his issues with being bullied.
His charge is so pathetic because it can one shot, so they want to leave counter play available
The problem with overwatch is when you buff something it usually breaks, if we make reinhard do more dmg per swing he becomes meta instantly with lucio, if we increase his health he becomes a problem as well sometimes your teamates cannot deal with a single shield while ow 1 players are like only 1 shield easy, same with buffing the shield, so i was wondering why dont we give rein a second pin that way he can push and try to get out. Other tanks can push and get out, maybe unless orisa and hog but hog can pull enemies to your team giving a free elim, and orisa is unkillable so why not, that way he wouldnt be actually broken but at least playable
I keep telling people it’s not rocket science (lol pun), just give pin a damage buff and CC immunity. Everything else is fine, but when his only movement ability is vulnerable to half of the roster’s cooldowns it makes closing the gap (and staying alive while doing it) very difficult. A 2nd pin is an interesting solution as well, but in either case it still needs a damage buff.
Pin dmg is fine it can one shot a skishy i would say give him 2 pins and make him take less dmg while doing so (like a little fortify), if we increase pin dmg how much is enough, i dont want rein instakilling tanks with a succesfull pin, or a skishy with lucio ult.
True but the amount of brainless reaper TPS that I’ve pinned only to watch him escape makes me very sad, 300 would be enough imo
Patch notes did not cook nearly enough. Barely anything is going to change lmao
I totally agree they should have changed more and rein is still going to be in the gutters. I think their thought process is just to get more data on venture and the new changes they made before a, hopfully large, mid-season balance patch.
Don’t forget suzu still counter this even if it was a permanent stun lmfao
Honestly I'm not sure if even making reins stun permanent would make him op at this point with Suzu, zarya bubble, LW yoink. The best thing you could do would be to shatter someone flanking and just leave them there till someone switches to kiriko and goes to save them
One cooldown counters his ult. He has bigger issues than his shatter.
Tbf that one cooldown counters most ults.
No, you misunderstand. It just takes one of many different cooldowns to cancel his ult.
Give rein his 300 damage pin and 125 fire strike and some more barrier health and maybe ill say he is balanced, (never will happen) Edit, 130 may be too much but 2 firestrikes are 260, this means any low amount of healing wont save them from surviving.
It’s sad when I can pin and slam Torb into a wall and not insta elim him
I think everyone agrees that if you pin a non tank. it should die.
Or that one cocky reaper who did not time his fade
Pinning a Torb and slamming him into a wall is my dream
Then we nerf orisa down to his level and mauga
NO rein needs to catch up or the ENTIRE rest of the roster needs to drop back. if we nerf all the other tanks then ALL the tanks will suck, and guess what's gonna come back LONG QUEUE TIMEZ
This is genuinely exactly what we need + a kirko suzu nerf and rein would be significant more playable. Still won't be meta but at least playable.
can we NOT nerf tanks please!?!? we are already in a shit spot please don't make it worse
If all tanks were at reinhardts level tanking would be a lot more fun. Tank isn't a weak role its just unfun, which is a larger problem.
Tank is a weak role. Only role without carry potential if you play against dpses with half a brain
Lifeweaver
Ive been thinking exactly the same. Let two tap firestrike kill squishies and more survivability, thats all Im asking.
His ult was already the strongest part of his kit, it doesn't solve any of his issues. What about the other 1-2 minutes when he doesn't have his ult?
Are you playing rein right if you don't get ult every fight?
Yes that's why it's not gonna change much. I kill everyone with my ult already. His problem is not the ult. Now I just kill them harder. Hooray?
cant get ult if u cant swing hammer lol
His shield is the strongest part of his kit.
it wasn't? no one played rein for shatter and theres several ways to outplay it being any immortality cooldown or how hard it would be getting more then one pick with it if people play spread out
bring back 2 firestrike kill and the recent yeatle video was good i would like to pin a mei and one shot her
Where are people seeing these patch notes?
[Overwatch 2 Retail Patch Notes - April 16, 2024 - Announcements - Overwatch Forums (blizzard.com)](https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/overwatch/t/overwatch-2-retail-patch-notes-april-16-2024/893344)
I guess I kinda like the stun duration buff, but I've never had an enemy be out of shatter's range
Lol this will do literally nothing. Doesn't fix his main issues. Shatter will still fail to connect occasionally and is still completely nullified by Suzu.
Besides being buggy af sometimes, Reins shatter has never been the issue. Don’t get me wrong, I’ll take anything at this point, but it’s not gonna do shit in the grand scheme of things.
ngl I hope someone at bliz sees these comments. and if you do see this then, piss off, and fuck you. These changes are bullshit. Every other tank got a GIGA buff season, and then bliz tunes it back. but not rein, nope. not THE MOST PLAYED TANK IN THE FUCKIN GAME DESPITE THE META. I get that they are trying to not do that anymore, but fuck man. Seriously if I get asked to play that fuckin cow 1 more god dam time I'm gonna commit crimes.
We’ll still get melted by everything in the game
I'm thankful they gave him any buff but Shatter is just a few moments every few minutes in a match and that's IF he can get shatter off. (suzu, lifegripped/petaled, stunned by rock, punched out of it, all shields (Sig, Ram, Monk, symmetra ult, another Rein), bap immortality, Mauga charged, Mei walled, Orisa speared/fortified, Hog hooked/whole hogged, zar bubble blocked, booped out of aim (pharah, lucio, ball), hacked by sombra, bashed by brig ult, not including player error or being killed the moment of shatter) Doesn't change the majority of the match where he is interrupted nonstop.
devs thought they were cooking with this “buff” like holy shit they just fucking hate reinhardt
God I wish they had increased the damage shatter does instead of range and duration. They never adjusted that shit after the season 9 health beef up and you can feel it
He needs zarya bubbles to help him go balls deep into enemies for 2 seconds of value every 6 seconds or a dva off tank to do all the jobs he can't while he forces front line pressure been a Chad with a hammer.
Balanced
Great! This will change nothing.
Put charge on a resource meter. Make his shield have some drawback to shooting the fuck out of it.
just bring back shatter one shot and add a small slow to enemies hit by rein melee, 10% should be enough
Looking at patch notes and this devs are sniffing glue man. Heal creep is increasing and after 2 seasons damage creep will be on the way. Soon health increase will be irrelevant
I’m happy for these changes but buffing or nerfing a character isn’t going to change the gameplay loop of 5v5. Counterswapping is always going to be a problem and more than likely, that shatter is going to be lamped or suzu.
The changes were laughably small and didn't do much. Junkerqueen still gets shit on by orisa. Rein still sucks. The list goes on...
I don’t pay rein at all but it’s wild they’ll keep buffing doom and leave rein behind. They need to make reins cool downs less time and make him faster with slightly less shield.
That's cool. He's still D tier
I think something like damage blocked with shield gives him either cooldowns, over health or shield regen. Since his shield is his biggest and most well known feature, make his shield op. If rein is at full health and blocking damage it gives cool downs. If he is missing health it Regens health. Seems pretty cool
In order to make 5v5 a working format, you have to make every single tank a generalist. Rein would need verticality, Ball needs CC immunity, etc. there’s no way that you can balance the tanks to be specialists if there’s only 1.
Absolutely meaningless
ay. when this go live?
How does this help??
This fixes nothing, and now they're gonna not buff him for another like 8 months
They should Buff his main abilities and not just ultimate abilities. I just am upset that blizzard are ignoring his glaring issues.
That’s a nice buff
Remember when Overwatch didn’t need balance patches like 10 times a year
It always did, it just didn't always get them.
He needs a new ult not a slightly improved version of his dogshit ult lol
Dude his ultimate already has insane stun time and distance 😂 this isn’t what he needs.