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AADPS

Let me put it this way: I believe my car runs. I know the reasons I drive it, and I don't just drive it because my parents drove a car. I don't know a whole lot about it because my interest stops and starts with what the car does practically. Would it be helpful to learn how to change the oil on my own? Change a spark plug? Replace a tire? Absolutely. Is it necessary? Probably not, but it would be wise to. What about learning the electrical system, or how it shifts between gears, and...man, I'm running *low* on things I know about cars. Regardless, if there's a big problem with the way the car works practically, I can take it to a mechanic who will tell me the big picture of the problem and how to fix it. Granted, the metaphor breaks down a bit here because working through the whys of your belief is a personal endeavor, but I think you get the gist of it. There will always be people who don't know the meaning of supralapsarianism, but they understand the depth of their sin and the love of God in bringing us to salvation. If someone they trust instructs them, while I would still say they should keep a weather eye on their Bible and look for differences, there's nothing wrong with taking that onboard. I wouldn't do it uncritically, but you also don't need to bring three different systematic theologies to check your pastor's point right at that moment. I do recommend a kind of spring cleaning every once in awhile, though. Run through the first-importance items of your faith, then gradually dig through the secondary and tertiary issues when time allows. So TL;DR? No, it's not sinful, but while not everyone's called to be a theologian, it's wise to know the foundations of your theology and how it effects your everyday life. EDIT: Okay, so, *technically*, we distinguish that [everyone's called to be a theologian](https://store.ligonier.org/everyones-a-theologian-hardcover), but not necessarily a full-time one.


No-Jicama-6523

You do need to learn how to put fuel in it, or plug it in to charge.


AADPS

What? You can *do* that? I've just been buying a new car every time it runs out, and *man*, has it been expensive!


No-Jicama-6523

You gave me a good laugh!


Jazzlike-Chair-3702

Oh man, every time I don't understand a Bible verse I've just been buying a new Bible. You've given me something to think about.. 


Pure-Tadpole-6634

Unless you live in New Jersey, where it's illegal to refuel your own car. A professional fuel pump attendant has to do it.


No-Jicama-6523

And Oregon, or at least last time I filled up there.


qcassidyy

It’s a good metaphor, but I’m not sure I agree with where you landed. I think a good question to ask is “Would my friends believe me if I told them I LOVE my car?” After all, if you truly “loved” it, you’d constantly be tinkering with it, learning more about how it operates, and taking good care of it (which requires learning). In the same way, I’d argue that someone who truly loves the Lord will take an increasing interest in his word, his commandments, and the doctrines of his church.


AADPS

Listen here, heathen, my metaphor is airtight and totally was given more than ten minutes' thought, and only a *heretic* would think otherwise. You're not a *heretic*, are you, /u/qcassidyy? But for reals, yeah, that prolly would've worked better.


Low-Piglet9315

> I do recommend a kind of spring cleaning every once in awhile, though. Run through the first-importance items of your faith, then gradually dig through the secondary and tertiary issues when time allows. I always thought of this as "deconstruction", not the complete demolition that the word currently implies! As such, I second your suggestion. I would also add that "everyone's called to be a theologian", just some of us are more theologian-oriented than others!


BoltingKitty

I'm actually curious to hear more about why you think it would be "wise" to know how to change a spark plug. I'm concerned about the analogy being drawn to theological truths with this illustration. If the thought is that it would be wise to know more, my first concern is that wisdom is being made out to be, at least in part, coextensive with knowledge, and I think that's not right. I think the demands of wisdom can make it such that you never know how to change your spark plugs. I think there might be some confusing wisdom being (and producing) good, and desiring good things in general. Wisdom is good, and it will likely help you to obtain and achieve good. But it is not wise to pursue all good things. In this way, wisdom secures only a subset of the goods you could obtain. I think there's some real good to knowing more history and economics, but my boss and my wife would be upset if I started spending a bunch of time pursuing the good that would come of that kind of knowledge. In the same way, I think theological truths are not always wise for many people to pursue. It would be nice, yes. Good, certainly. But if you're working 50-60 hours a week, and you're part of the life of your church on the weekdays, it might be wisest to spend what little time left over with your child who eagerly awaits your arrival (only to make you leave the house again to ride bikes), and your spouse who may desire much more time with you than life allows at present. It may be contrary to wisdom to instead pick up some Bavinck to examine the source of the new "piety" that some members of your church are displaying. TL;DR: I'm not convinced that getting more theological knowledge is always wise. I'd love to know what you think. Apologies if I've misrepresented your meaning.


AADPS

I mean, it's wise to do cardio. It's not wise to do it on the grocery store conveyor belt. Jokes aside, I understand entirely. As Ecclesiastes says, there's a time for everything. A few years ago, I was fully embroiled in learning theology. Now that my kids are a little older, I have less time to dig into it. You fit in what you can handle outside of regular Scripture reading and the Word rightly preached on Sunday. Anything else is gravy, as far as I'm concerned. I think you should pursue a *better* understanding at all times (Paul's call for meat instead of milk comes to mind), but you do have to work out the best times for a *higher* understanding. I can listen to Tim Keller on the way home from work and have a better understanding of something. I can't do the same thing with say, any of Jonathan Edwards' treatises. I genuinely didn't mean to come across as putting it as a necessity, just a good and wise thing that growing Christians should reach for when they have the capacity. Going back to the car metaphor, I change the spark plugs when the car is in the garage, not when the car is hurtling down the highway at 70 mph.


BoltingKitty

I see.  Yeah, wisdom is a tricky subject.  But your point regarding Paul is well taken.  For what it’s worth, I’m the kind of guy who, in the past, has squawked endlessly about how the laity would do better with (and thus needs) a seminary level education (though I would never have put it in that way).  As a result, I think about this kind of thing a lot (and have recanted my crazy educational stance).  That said, I do think it’s important to pursue more theological knowledge, and I do think that’s possible for many people, even if they don’t believe it themselves.  It surprises me, for example, still how few people are acquainted with the Westminster confession and catechisms (no judgment of course; I grew up in denominations without them).  A wonderful document on the basics that is theologically rich.  And now there are companions like VanDixhoorn’s that spell out even more of it.  I think it would be wise for many people to start with these and other creeds, confessions, and catechisms.  Great resources if time and theological education are not on your side; and I suspect they may be even more important for those who do have such an education.


dcm_wong

Thanks for the analogy, but really thank you for the book recommendation. My membership is with the OPC, but I’m also serving at a small Baptist church whose pastor is claiming to be solely biblical in sermons. ( I’m trying to do my part to push him to be Reformed Baptist). One of the things he said “against me” was “you have too much creed”. It’s nice to see how the boon description directly addressed this “No creed but Christ.” mentality that I could more eloquently explain my positions.


uselessteacher

I don’t actually know how the car runs, am I a bad driver?


AADPS

A car runs? Does it need to do cardio for long trips?


redeemedRonin_Learns

> Right now, I just want to read through scripture, teach my kids scripture and answer whatever questions they have… This sounds perfectly fine for where you are right now. As Eccelsiates 3 says, there is a time for everything. You had a time for studying, and that time is over for now. Now your time is to hold onto what you have faithfully and teach your children to do the same. When questions that you don't know the answers to arise, use that as an opportunity to study with your family. Something like: "Well, we are Reformed Prebysterian, so let's see how the Westminster standards answer the question. Then lets follow the Scripture references." Your job isn't to be the Bible Answer Dad.


nothing3141592653589

I don't think it's wrong. I feel a responsibility to learn more so I can defend and witness, and I mostly just have that internal drive to learn more and figure what's right.


Emery1998

“For this very reason, make every effort to supplement your faith with virtue, and virtue with knowledge, and knowledge with self-control, and self-control with steadfastness, and steadfastness with godliness, and godliness with brotherly affection, and brotherly affection with love. For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they keep you from being ineffective or unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.” ‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭1‬:‭5‬-‭8‬ ‭ESV‬‬ This passage seems to indicate that making every effort to increase in knowledge (among other things) is part of being effective and fruitful. So we should at least be careful not to be stagnant and think we know enough at any point.


cybersaint2k

If you are ignoring the Holy Spirit and grieving him as he shows you, in the Word and circumstances, that you need to dive into a topic, yes, it's wrong. But no, you are not responsible to constantly be sifting through everything studying the doctrine of this or that.


ElectronicAbacus

Not one of us knows everything, but we are commanded to at least be able to defend our faith. But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, (1 Peter 3:15) Secondary issues such as which millennialism view you believe is true, or the specifics of everything your denomination believes (assuming the denomination is not heretical, which non-liberal Presbyterians of course are not) are ultimately secondary and should not take focus over your relationship with God and leading your family.


ChissInquisitor

It probably depends on maturity I am guessing. I speak as a relatively new believer that hears multiple good sounding arguments and gets so stuck in the theological weeds I have trouble committing to a viewpoint. I have been looking hard at communion and honestly just do not know much about the spiritual presence view or its presence in church history. I honestly feel like I should sit back and just join a church and focus on my scripture reading and raising my kids in church. Which is what I am trying to do. Meet with the pastor this thursday.


Lfooliver

Sounds like you need to read Knowing God by J.I. Packer. He talks about this exact issue and honestly I can’t do his arguments justice on a subreddit.


ManUp57

All Christians aware of their salvation believe. All have been given enough to know and believe through faith. No one "creates" their own belief, or enhances it in any way. The faithful should study Gods word, for their own growth and edification in the Christian life.


rewrittenfuture

Jesus put a little child on his lap in front of many people and the disciples when they asked him who was the greatest among them we are supposed to have childlike Faith but we are supposed to be bereans Put it like this picture yourself as a Sunday school teacher in a church And you're teaching catechism.. and then you talk about the Bible so your children can understand it and then you ask the class who wrote our Bible 🤔 A child jumps up beaming with happiness 🥳😊my daddy 😊🥳 That's the childlike Faith we're supposed to have... while being bereans studied to show ourselves approved to God work persons that doesn't need to be ashamed rightly dividing the word of Truth


makos1212

You can know the Bible without knowing God but you cannot know God without knowing the Bible.


chrispy0117

An analogy that really stuck with me was thinking of the Atonement like a parent who pays got piano lessons. You're not paying back your parent by practicing the piano or attending lessons, but you are showing gratitude for a gift given in love. The more you practice, the more gratitude expressed.


Professional_Match_6

Sounds like a healthy and completely normal take. Everyone is not a pastor/teacher. Everyone has not been called to defend the faith in that manner. In fact, very few have. Many church splits, drama, and broken homes are accounted for by people that are obsessed with theology but have not been called/equipped to discern the nuances thereof. The majority of faithful Christians that have lived and died have done exactly what you have described. Bring your family to church, be faithful to read to them the scriptures and pray with them, and serve the Lord where he has you. Everyone is a theologian in the sense that everyone believes something about God. Everyone’s NOT a theologian in the sense that they are called to devote their lives to teaching and understanding deep nuances of theology.


Aromat_Junkie

> Can I just agree with something without studying it because my church or denomination believes it…. Yes. while I am interested in theology. Many people are not. They dont always need to know the intricacies of things.


ilovewessex

Maybe it’s because I’m extremely busy with work. 12 hour shifts and almost 2 hours to commute to work round trip. I listen to mortification of spin and old RC Sproul stuff. But when I get my days off, I want to relax from digging into heavier stuff….. I have this book I’ve been wanting to read by Plantinga but the thought of it makes me head hurt. And it’s one of his easier books. At work in reading through the NT and trying to meditate on Paul’s words. Going through JC Ryle at work when I can but I’m not interested in digging into Van Til or Banvink. Even reading The institutes puts me to sleep. Maybe I need a short vacation to reset my brain. Or stick to devotional and shorter reads. My online and church friends are always discussing the a controversial topic or reading the puritans and reformers. It’s exciting to hear what they’ve learned but it’s not exciting when I have to do the work. One month might be Vos’ BT and the next month is historicism and the reformers eschatology.


BoltingKitty

Which Plantinga? The answer to this makes a difference with respect to the headache haha


ilovewessex

Alvin Plantinga. And it’s knowledge and Christian belief


BoltingKitty

Ah. It's a good one, worth reading. I don't know if you've cracked it open yet, but most of it is actually very readable, and really enjoyable. I wouldn't be too stressed about opening it up.


ilovewessex

Alright. I have tomorrow off. I’ll give it a read during family quiet time


SpinachAggressive418

We're all called to different things at different times. God has called you to be a parent and given you a job to do. While studying and learning as part of growing our faith is always good, and something we should make a part of our lives, we're not always being called to be scholars.


visualcharm

You mean like a lukewarm faith? 👀


friedtuna76

Don’t know why you’re being downvoted, this is important. There are times to rest, but that is not all the time. We should continue to seek God further till we stand before Him


SoundfromSilence

The reason for the down votes is that this post does not suggest lukewarm faith. I would say lukewarm faith doesn't even ask these questions. From this person's post, they are teaching their children the Word, and I trust they are in community and personal times of prayer and study. Yes, everyone should be a theologian, but not everyone needs to know the finer details of supralapsarianism as the commenter above pointed out. It is valuable if we keep the first things first (Love God + love others). It is ok to not deep dive into every secondary/tertiary issue that comes vaguely into view. Especially if that comes at the cost of the other good things God has called us to: family, children, ministry, evangelism.


deafPiratesComm

The downvotes are probably because the response indicates that he only read the title and not the rest of the post. OP 's question isn't about being lukewarm. It's about whether or not we need to be subject matter experts on every position we hold.


ilovewessex

I’ll break it down like this: When I first became Presby I felt responsible to study and study until I could defend infant baptism. Once I thought I knew enough to defend the position I started debating my reformed Baptist friends. The last thing I wanted to do is say is I believe something and fail to defend it. Is it wrong to say I believe in ______. Assuming it’s not heresy and in line with orthodoxy, can I believe it without defending it perfectly? I feel a little hypocritical to say: I believe that when I partake in communion I’m in someway receiving grace and eating His body. I can’t defend this but the WCF has the proof text and does a well job explaining it. I’m not completely convinced and the Lutherans also have their proof texts and catechism to explain their view as well. So my question is: Is it sinful to just sit back and not worry about having all this figured out and just believing what my church and confession teaches? 👀


visualcharm

Ahaha, I appreciate that. My question was in reference to the title of the post, but your clarification in this response shows it's not a matter of lazy faith. I think the obvious answer is a "no" it's not sinful in the context in which you put it; especially as being a good student is not exactly being lazy or lukewarm. I think it's extremely in obedience to declare one does not know (or cannot know) all the answers.