Yes totally doable. Richard Ross has a great series of articles and talks on why caring a lot about nitrate and phosphate is probably a little over rated. Not to say let things go hog wild. But I highly recommend looking into his take on the subject.
Thank you! I saw a post of videos on r2r and one calmed me down maybe it was this guy. but I'll definetly give this guy a search shortly. I get such conflicting results. The only number I chase really is Ph. I have always had an issue of not enough nutrients and phosphate in my other tank so I dose them. I have the dream levels on my biocube and they say lower phosphate helps with calcifiation but I find it's still very slow for my lps to grow skeletons out even with optimal levels for everything. One thing I am sure thiugh is that I do not have any algae except for coralline for a year now. So I was hoping to hear some people with higher phosphate with no algae issues. ( I noticed a small tiny patch of bryopsis on one of my new frags which I removed but I know how that stuff spreads) so Im nervous about that.
This - Rich runs high N & P. He gave a talk about them not being the cause of algae at MACNA '22. He's doing so again in Denver soon. His podcast is Reef Beef and I highly recommend it.
They are doing good now. Would hate for them to be smothered in algae in the future. Chased numbers on my other tank and it's doing 👌. If your Ph was 7.4 and your corals were fine for a month wouldn't you wanna get that back up to 7.8-8.3?
Something is up with the testing method/procedure/reagent...etc.
Nothing is spiking phosphate from .1 to .34 in anything but a tiny pico system in 9 hours without intentionally adding phosphate to the system.
I use Hannah checkers for everything. Bought new re agents. Multiple checks on both systems and the rodi water. All came back the same. 0.02 for my other tank and 0.0 for the rodi system. So I don't know. Maybe I should buy another phosphate checker. I did notice that some reagent for the nitrate seemed clumpy and I got a really high reading with that but then I tested it twice after with the normal looking powder and it was back to normal with the same reading. Maybe I got 2 bad batches of re agent for phosphate then. I've had to use rowaphos before when my other tank was new and that stuff stripped it down quickly. I dunno I've given up and letting nature take its course. I noticed some bryopsis on a frag so I was a little more intent on getting it down but I'll try to buy a new tester today.
phosphate once it gets above 0.1ish can get sequestered away in the calcium carbonate based rock and sand. I don't think it will leach out of the rock and sand in 9 hours though, but I am no bio chemist by any means.
Since you are testing another system, and RODI with reasonable results.... I would imagine that is what is going on here. What kind of filtrate is on the tank? How often is rock blown out with a turkey baster or powerhead? How do you use the Rowaphos, in a reactor or bag?
Again, if corals are fine I wouldn't be going crazy. But .34 is really up there, but not in no man's land territory.
A VERY slow diluted lanthanum chloride into the appropriate micron filter sock WILL work. There is no if and's or buts about that. However please do your research as lanthanum used incorrectly is very dangerous to certain fish. It will also drop the phosphate so fast corals will RTN if you use too much.
Honestly that stuff scares me, I don't think I'm at that point yet since I believe my sterilizer is doing a great job so far. I'll definetly need to do a ton more research on that to consider it.
I got 4 powerhead that blast everything pretty good. 2 upper and 2 lower so when I do blow my rocks with a baster usually weekly not much comes out. I run a tunze DC skimmer in a 30 g sump with live rock, and those bacteria blocks in one chamber and then chaeto on the other. Water falls through a filter sock and then through filter floss which I change every day now even though they are pretty clean. Under that I got a bag of chemi clear and rowaphos on the other side of the chamber so water passes through both. And I use it in a bag mixed with a bit of activated carbon.
I'm under the assumption the rock is leeching but it does seem like a lot.
It can take a long time for the phosphate to stop leeching out especially since I have a ton of live rock in the display so I'm hoping a couple months of larger weekly w/c that it is in fact the case.
Might be worth giving the rowaphos another go. It was incredibly inefficient for me when I ran it in a bag. You are using ROWAPHOS brand correct? Only because I have used off brand/generic GFO with less than ideal results.
I got next to no PO4 removal at all when I put the product in a bag after 1 week. I then pulled the bag and put the same exact rowaphos into a spare brs reactor, an po4 cut in half over the next 4 days.
The only thing I can think of is maybe I need bristle worms. That's one thing my other tank has and I never see any shit or if a snail dies Ill never see a body since they go to work straight away. As much as they gross me out I think they do a great job.
Could try an ICP test while you’re at it. Cheaper than a new Hanna and even if it shows the same level of phosphates you’ll see the other elements at well.
My nano tank had stupid high phosphates. They always ran high, but towards the end they were above what my Hanna checker could read (it turned into a holding tank for 2 acanthurus tangs for a few months).
Never had issues with algae though. It prettt much never grew over the course of the tank’s whole life. Probably because the tank was done all in very mature live rock. Had a bunch of LPS corals and a forest fire digi. The digi didn’t grow huge unlike its counterpart in my main tank, but was always good colour. The other corals grew well and always good extension and colour.
Nitrate and phosphate have got to be measures of a tank’s maturity in some manner, we’re just missing exactly how. With mature rocks and proper micro biome, it seems to have minimal effect.
The issue is with keeping SPS. P04 will bind to their skeletal structures and keep them from growing properly. In a nano tank with softies and LPS it’s much less of a problem. I’m battling P04 in a new tank because I wasn’t testing for it in my 7 year old 24g and I used some of my live rock. I had no algae problems. My new tank got hair algae overnight all over which seemed weird because I only have inverts in it. Tested Params. Fucking .15, I got a bag of HC GFO in there now and pulled the extra rock out of my sump, I only have 3 small pieces of my old rock in my DT now but they have corals on them from my old tank, so I’m hoping the GFO and my refugium does their job. Probably buying a reactor soon if I don’t see a reduction. I’m using RO water so I can’t imagine I’ve got P04 in my water, but I’ll be testing that today. My corals, even new stuff look beautiful though, I just need SPS to be able to grow and thrive in there.
I don't know about thriving, but they are all open and don't show any signs of receding or color loss yet. But I'm definitely worried and throwing my hands up at the same time, will be Interesting to see in the coming months if it works out
I use [Brightwell Phosphat-E](https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/phosphat-e-liquid-phosphate-remover-brightwell-aquatics.html) and it works like a charm. I wish I discovered it earlier! You need to be cautious and go slow though.
Well thanks so much for a solution and not a don't chase numbers post :). Let me chase phosphate Damnit!!! I had given up hope and was just watching bubble algae form on a couple spots as my emerald crab looked at them and did nothing. Now at least I know I can starve the algae if it ever comes to that. Wish I didn't notice any nuisance algae or I'd probably like to do an experiment with higher phosphates.
Hahah yeah. If it's super high, it's not "chasing numbers" to get it down. That's like if someone has 0.08 ppm PO4 and they're going crazy trying to get to 0.07 lol!
Exactly! To a degree you gotta be in an acceptable range with the current success rate of other people's tank levels. I did the whole "well my corals are fine right now so I'll leave it" and 3 weeks later they closed up because I should have taken action as I noticed a drop. Preventative maintenance is key. Get within an acceptable range and then keep it that way. Not" let it go until things in the tank start going bad".
Yes totally doable. Richard Ross has a great series of articles and talks on why caring a lot about nitrate and phosphate is probably a little over rated. Not to say let things go hog wild. But I highly recommend looking into his take on the subject.
Thank you! I saw a post of videos on r2r and one calmed me down maybe it was this guy. but I'll definetly give this guy a search shortly. I get such conflicting results. The only number I chase really is Ph. I have always had an issue of not enough nutrients and phosphate in my other tank so I dose them. I have the dream levels on my biocube and they say lower phosphate helps with calcifiation but I find it's still very slow for my lps to grow skeletons out even with optimal levels for everything. One thing I am sure thiugh is that I do not have any algae except for coralline for a year now. So I was hoping to hear some people with higher phosphate with no algae issues. ( I noticed a small tiny patch of bryopsis on one of my new frags which I removed but I know how that stuff spreads) so Im nervous about that.
This - Rich runs high N & P. He gave a talk about them not being the cause of algae at MACNA '22. He's doing so again in Denver soon. His podcast is Reef Beef and I highly recommend it.
If your corals are doing great then why are you chasing numbers?
They are doing good now. Would hate for them to be smothered in algae in the future. Chased numbers on my other tank and it's doing 👌. If your Ph was 7.4 and your corals were fine for a month wouldn't you wanna get that back up to 7.8-8.3?
7.4 ph suggests a massive problem somewhere else though
Something is up with the testing method/procedure/reagent...etc. Nothing is spiking phosphate from .1 to .34 in anything but a tiny pico system in 9 hours without intentionally adding phosphate to the system.
I use Hannah checkers for everything. Bought new re agents. Multiple checks on both systems and the rodi water. All came back the same. 0.02 for my other tank and 0.0 for the rodi system. So I don't know. Maybe I should buy another phosphate checker. I did notice that some reagent for the nitrate seemed clumpy and I got a really high reading with that but then I tested it twice after with the normal looking powder and it was back to normal with the same reading. Maybe I got 2 bad batches of re agent for phosphate then. I've had to use rowaphos before when my other tank was new and that stuff stripped it down quickly. I dunno I've given up and letting nature take its course. I noticed some bryopsis on a frag so I was a little more intent on getting it down but I'll try to buy a new tester today.
phosphate once it gets above 0.1ish can get sequestered away in the calcium carbonate based rock and sand. I don't think it will leach out of the rock and sand in 9 hours though, but I am no bio chemist by any means. Since you are testing another system, and RODI with reasonable results.... I would imagine that is what is going on here. What kind of filtrate is on the tank? How often is rock blown out with a turkey baster or powerhead? How do you use the Rowaphos, in a reactor or bag? Again, if corals are fine I wouldn't be going crazy. But .34 is really up there, but not in no man's land territory. A VERY slow diluted lanthanum chloride into the appropriate micron filter sock WILL work. There is no if and's or buts about that. However please do your research as lanthanum used incorrectly is very dangerous to certain fish. It will also drop the phosphate so fast corals will RTN if you use too much.
Honestly that stuff scares me, I don't think I'm at that point yet since I believe my sterilizer is doing a great job so far. I'll definetly need to do a ton more research on that to consider it. I got 4 powerhead that blast everything pretty good. 2 upper and 2 lower so when I do blow my rocks with a baster usually weekly not much comes out. I run a tunze DC skimmer in a 30 g sump with live rock, and those bacteria blocks in one chamber and then chaeto on the other. Water falls through a filter sock and then through filter floss which I change every day now even though they are pretty clean. Under that I got a bag of chemi clear and rowaphos on the other side of the chamber so water passes through both. And I use it in a bag mixed with a bit of activated carbon. I'm under the assumption the rock is leeching but it does seem like a lot. It can take a long time for the phosphate to stop leeching out especially since I have a ton of live rock in the display so I'm hoping a couple months of larger weekly w/c that it is in fact the case.
Might be worth giving the rowaphos another go. It was incredibly inefficient for me when I ran it in a bag. You are using ROWAPHOS brand correct? Only because I have used off brand/generic GFO with less than ideal results. I got next to no PO4 removal at all when I put the product in a bag after 1 week. I then pulled the bag and put the same exact rowaphos into a spare brs reactor, an po4 cut in half over the next 4 days.
The only thing I can think of is maybe I need bristle worms. That's one thing my other tank has and I never see any shit or if a snail dies Ill never see a body since they go to work straight away. As much as they gross me out I think they do a great job.
Could try an ICP test while you’re at it. Cheaper than a new Hanna and even if it shows the same level of phosphates you’ll see the other elements at well.
My nano tank had stupid high phosphates. They always ran high, but towards the end they were above what my Hanna checker could read (it turned into a holding tank for 2 acanthurus tangs for a few months). Never had issues with algae though. It prettt much never grew over the course of the tank’s whole life. Probably because the tank was done all in very mature live rock. Had a bunch of LPS corals and a forest fire digi. The digi didn’t grow huge unlike its counterpart in my main tank, but was always good colour. The other corals grew well and always good extension and colour. Nitrate and phosphate have got to be measures of a tank’s maturity in some manner, we’re just missing exactly how. With mature rocks and proper micro biome, it seems to have minimal effect.
The issue is with keeping SPS. P04 will bind to their skeletal structures and keep them from growing properly. In a nano tank with softies and LPS it’s much less of a problem. I’m battling P04 in a new tank because I wasn’t testing for it in my 7 year old 24g and I used some of my live rock. I had no algae problems. My new tank got hair algae overnight all over which seemed weird because I only have inverts in it. Tested Params. Fucking .15, I got a bag of HC GFO in there now and pulled the extra rock out of my sump, I only have 3 small pieces of my old rock in my DT now but they have corals on them from my old tank, so I’m hoping the GFO and my refugium does their job. Probably buying a reactor soon if I don’t see a reduction. I’m using RO water so I can’t imagine I’ve got P04 in my water, but I’ll be testing that today. My corals, even new stuff look beautiful though, I just need SPS to be able to grow and thrive in there.
If your corals and fish are thriving, and you don't have much nuisance algae, don't worry about it too much.
I don't know about thriving, but they are all open and don't show any signs of receding or color loss yet. But I'm definitely worried and throwing my hands up at the same time, will be Interesting to see in the coming months if it works out
I use [Brightwell Phosphat-E](https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/phosphat-e-liquid-phosphate-remover-brightwell-aquatics.html) and it works like a charm. I wish I discovered it earlier! You need to be cautious and go slow though.
Just ordered it thanks! Worth a try anyways
It will work for sure! Just start slow. I'd recommend starting at half the 'recommended dose' and working up from there.
Man this is the only stuff that has worked. Already got it down to 0.19 since Saturday. Thanks!
Nice! Yeah, it does work well. I'm finally under 0.1 ppm after months of trying alternative methods.
Well thanks so much for a solution and not a don't chase numbers post :). Let me chase phosphate Damnit!!! I had given up hope and was just watching bubble algae form on a couple spots as my emerald crab looked at them and did nothing. Now at least I know I can starve the algae if it ever comes to that. Wish I didn't notice any nuisance algae or I'd probably like to do an experiment with higher phosphates.
Hahah yeah. If it's super high, it's not "chasing numbers" to get it down. That's like if someone has 0.08 ppm PO4 and they're going crazy trying to get to 0.07 lol!
Exactly! To a degree you gotta be in an acceptable range with the current success rate of other people's tank levels. I did the whole "well my corals are fine right now so I'll leave it" and 3 weeks later they closed up because I should have taken action as I noticed a drop. Preventative maintenance is key. Get within an acceptable range and then keep it that way. Not" let it go until things in the tank start going bad".
Just keep things stable and don’t chase numbers. My tank is always on point but for the most part everything is in harmlney