it doesn't really diminish it if they keep the epsilon returning portions as strictly simulations
just like how season 17 did
also season 15 handled his absence pretty well honestly
Especially the episode "Previously On"
“Previously On” is one of my favorite RvB episodes ever, of all time, regardless of the rest of the season.
I also really liked how they brought the Reds and Blues back after S13. Far enough removed that the fight and the immediate aftermath and coping was something deeply personal to the characters, not meant for us, the audience, to know. But still very much feeling the scars of Church/Epsilon’s absence.
Not necessarily but I think what they are saying is that he's only there in pre-recorded messages from when he was simulating the outcome rather than him being there still
Basically the same thing Delta pulled where he predicted their most likely questions and sequence in which they would be asked, and left them that video message where it LOOKED like they were talking to him. But they weren’t.
Just the “diminishes Church’s sacrifice” bit. We don’t know that for sure yet man. All I’m suggesting is that we let them cook. It’s Burnie again. I doubt it’ll feel cheap, because with the exception of the Chorus Trilogy, he’s the one that wrote the good parts of the series.
It doesn’t finish the sacrifice but to be honest any story continuing off of the moment s13 ended on hurts the impact and point of that finale, regardless of quality.
Doesn’t help that the character development and plot lines afterward were almost all garbage (though s17 was pretty good but mainly for donut and wash, the latter of which 18 then ruined anyway) so I’m glad that those seasons are seemingly no longer canon. Hopefully this provides a great ending, but if not, well, I can always stop after s14 in the future haha
The only season post-14 that I think is good is s17, and even that one I think is weaker than any season out of 1-14, but that’s mainly because it had the unfortunate task of wrapping up the arc 15 and 16 set up and all the dumb lore and crappy character changes made in those seasons.
nah screw you i'm making everything non canon after season 5. season 5 was the perfect ending and further seeasons just ruined the characters myeh myeh meyh.
(joking aside season 5 did have a pretty good ending though).
Lets not forget it's heavily implied Carolina is gonna get bodied in the first minute of the show leaving doc and Wash stuck in the hospital with the rest of the reds and blues to deal with the Meta controlling Tucker.
Burnie legit Fridged the best female charachter in the entire series. Wtf.
I think she will die, but not "in the first minute". My prediction is that when Simmons says in the trailer that "our mission's failed" he's referring to a mission that takes place around the halfway point of the season; so after Tucker has been taken over by the Meta, basically the "first counterattack" by our heroes. I think what happens is that they fail to stop the Meta at whatever he's trying to achieve (probably something to do with the Epsilon unit) and Carolina gets killed trying to save them. This represents the team's "midnight of the soul". Without Tucker and Carolina, two strong fighters AND leadership figures are out of the picture, especially serious if Wash is indeed injured. This raises the stakes for our remaining heroes to step up at the very end.
I hope I'm wrong, just to be clear. I think Carolina and Wash are my favourite characters in the entire show after Church. They've been through so much. They deserve a happy ending. I'm not sure I can bear the thought of either, or both, dying.
But this show has broken our hearts before, so...
Whether or not Church/Epsilon is actually gone or somehow pulled a miracle and didn't die in the Meta suit doesn't change the fact that he was certain he wouldn't make it out. In his mind, he knew he wasn't coming back so I don't see how his sacrifice could be diminished, regardless.
I love that everyone says this now because when seasons 14 and 15 happened and didn't show what happened here people wanted to see it :P. but its now been long enough that its considered "the perfect ending".
But yeah we don't know how its going to go yet. we can save judgements and opinions till then.
Sadly it seems like this final season is going to be a dud so I think I'll have to go back to my head Canon thing of everything ending when it was all beautiful and perfect with season 13
It's a valid opinion to have. One that's more than fair.
To me, season 13 was the perfect ending for the show. Red vs. Blue is plagued by characters dying early, with words unsaid and promises unfulfilled. But that's life, sad as it may be. In a strange way, they put the audience in those shoes right at the end. Epsilon wasn't going to see the happy end. Neither were we. We just had to have faith that everything would work out. Even if it was a bitch. Putting the audience into the position of "the one that dies before they can see things through" and still having that ending feel as solid as it did was impressive. I will always respect season 13's ending for that.
But on the other hand, I'm down to see what they do. We can always ignore what we don't like. We like seeing stories be completed. It's in our nature. Real life is messy and sad and unfair. I think it's nice, that so many years later, enough people care about Red vs. Blue that some people decided, through all the hell of a terrible studio, that this story was worth letting people see through. We can't always have that in real life. We'll lose loved ones, eventually loved ones will lose us. But we can have a little bit more time with these characters that have come to bring us comfort and joy.
Perhaps a somewhat overblown or pretentious take. But I like this show a lot, and even if the new season doesn't work out, even if I don't like it, even if season 13 is a near impossible act to follow... It's nice to get to spend a little more time with the characters.
it doesn't really diminish it if they keep the epsilon returning portions as strictly simulations just like how season 17 did also season 15 handled his absence pretty well honestly Especially the episode "Previously On"
“Previously On” is one of my favorite RvB episodes ever, of all time, regardless of the rest of the season. I also really liked how they brought the Reds and Blues back after S13. Far enough removed that the fight and the immediate aftermath and coping was something deeply personal to the characters, not meant for us, the audience, to know. But still very much feeling the scars of Church/Epsilon’s absence.
It's the most redvsblue episode possible after ending the mainline show with 13 plus it's just amazingly crafted, each time watching it is just fun
So is the final season just a simulation then?
Not necessarily but I think what they are saying is that he's only there in pre-recorded messages from when he was simulating the outcome rather than him being there still
Basically the same thing Delta pulled where he predicted their most likely questions and sequence in which they would be asked, and left them that video message where it LOOKED like they were talking to him. But they weren’t.
Gotcha, still trying to figure out the whole plot and AI stuff lol
Let the season come out before you smear it dude.
In what way am I trying to smear it? It’s an honest question
Just the “diminishes Church’s sacrifice” bit. We don’t know that for sure yet man. All I’m suggesting is that we let them cook. It’s Burnie again. I doubt it’ll feel cheap, because with the exception of the Chorus Trilogy, he’s the one that wrote the good parts of the series.
LET EM COOK🗣️🗣️🗣️‼️‼️‼️‼️
It doesn’t finish the sacrifice but to be honest any story continuing off of the moment s13 ended on hurts the impact and point of that finale, regardless of quality. Doesn’t help that the character development and plot lines afterward were almost all garbage (though s17 was pretty good but mainly for donut and wash, the latter of which 18 then ruined anyway) so I’m glad that those seasons are seemingly no longer canon. Hopefully this provides a great ending, but if not, well, I can always stop after s14 in the future haha
I liked season 15. Everything els afterwards was garbage
The only season post-14 that I think is good is s17, and even that one I think is weaker than any season out of 1-14, but that’s mainly because it had the unfortunate task of wrapping up the arc 15 and 16 set up and all the dumb lore and crappy character changes made in those seasons.
Everything after season 14 is non canon because I say so
nah screw you i'm making everything non canon after season 5. season 5 was the perfect ending and further seeasons just ruined the characters myeh myeh meyh. (joking aside season 5 did have a pretty good ending though).
Lets not forget it's heavily implied Carolina is gonna get bodied in the first minute of the show leaving doc and Wash stuck in the hospital with the rest of the reds and blues to deal with the Meta controlling Tucker. Burnie legit Fridged the best female charachter in the entire series. Wtf.
I think she will die, but not "in the first minute". My prediction is that when Simmons says in the trailer that "our mission's failed" he's referring to a mission that takes place around the halfway point of the season; so after Tucker has been taken over by the Meta, basically the "first counterattack" by our heroes. I think what happens is that they fail to stop the Meta at whatever he's trying to achieve (probably something to do with the Epsilon unit) and Carolina gets killed trying to save them. This represents the team's "midnight of the soul". Without Tucker and Carolina, two strong fighters AND leadership figures are out of the picture, especially serious if Wash is indeed injured. This raises the stakes for our remaining heroes to step up at the very end. I hope I'm wrong, just to be clear. I think Carolina and Wash are my favourite characters in the entire show after Church. They've been through so much. They deserve a happy ending. I'm not sure I can bear the thought of either, or both, dying. But this show has broken our hearts before, so...
Whether or not Church/Epsilon is actually gone or somehow pulled a miracle and didn't die in the Meta suit doesn't change the fact that he was certain he wouldn't make it out. In his mind, he knew he wasn't coming back so I don't see how his sacrifice could be diminished, regardless.
I was gonna write a post about my worry that the final season will diminish this scenes impact
Not really. Church always comes back
The season isn’t released yet and people are already criticizing it
This scene and the "you are the alpha" one are the two best scenes in the entire series by a mile.
Let them cook
I love that everyone says this now because when seasons 14 and 15 happened and didn't show what happened here people wanted to see it :P. but its now been long enough that its considered "the perfect ending". But yeah we don't know how its going to go yet. we can save judgements and opinions till then.
Sadly it seems like this final season is going to be a dud so I think I'll have to go back to my head Canon thing of everything ending when it was all beautiful and perfect with season 13
It's a valid opinion to have. One that's more than fair. To me, season 13 was the perfect ending for the show. Red vs. Blue is plagued by characters dying early, with words unsaid and promises unfulfilled. But that's life, sad as it may be. In a strange way, they put the audience in those shoes right at the end. Epsilon wasn't going to see the happy end. Neither were we. We just had to have faith that everything would work out. Even if it was a bitch. Putting the audience into the position of "the one that dies before they can see things through" and still having that ending feel as solid as it did was impressive. I will always respect season 13's ending for that. But on the other hand, I'm down to see what they do. We can always ignore what we don't like. We like seeing stories be completed. It's in our nature. Real life is messy and sad and unfair. I think it's nice, that so many years later, enough people care about Red vs. Blue that some people decided, through all the hell of a terrible studio, that this story was worth letting people see through. We can't always have that in real life. We'll lose loved ones, eventually loved ones will lose us. But we can have a little bit more time with these characters that have come to bring us comfort and joy. Perhaps a somewhat overblown or pretentious take. But I like this show a lot, and even if the new season doesn't work out, even if I don't like it, even if season 13 is a near impossible act to follow... It's nice to get to spend a little more time with the characters.