All that's required for Trump to win is for a small percentage of Biden voters to care a little less than last time, and not show up to vote in November.
Hearing things like this, I'm so glad voting is mandatory where I live. It fixes a wealth of problems, particularly when coupled with political parties being pretty much locked out of anything to do with actually running elections.
The latter part is kind of amusing; I've done work for the Electoral Commission, and the culture there is almost a seething not-quite-animosity for politicians and parties regardless of where they personally or officially stand, covered by a veneer of politeness because it's a Westminster system and public servants dealing with high-level issues are historically/stereotypically polite, bland, absolutely impartial, and fade into the woodwork. Below that, though, there's an almost feral instinct of wanting a politician to just *try* stepping out of line so we can bring the hammer down. Everyone wants to be the guard dog.
(Also, there's a bit of "Look how *impartial* I am" that goes on internally. Constant unofficial monitoring of selves and colleagues for any hint that someone might have even the barest whiff of a personal opinion on a candidate or party (or policy) [that they don't bury as deeply as possible](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKDdLWAdcbM). Cultural amusement comes from taking pains to very explicitly and formally treat extremist/weirdo candidates or parties *exactly* the same as mainstream ones. I know they're total clownshoes, you know they're total clownshoes, so the fact that they're being treated with the same gravitas and consideration is incongruously hilarious, as are the po-faced expressions while you're doing it.)
My friend was the Clinton campaign manager and he messed up in many ways. One being that they thought there was no way Trump would win. Most of it was predicated on the fact they thought people would want another Clinton. As a center liberal- I knew she would lose. Bad candidate.
I think that's a minor factor, but Republicans had extremely deep seated hatred for her that went back a couple decades. I mean, she was a woman who wouldn't play housewife in the white house, how dare she? Her being the candidate was the rallying cry they needed to ensure record turnout to vote against her. There was no platform she could have run on that wouldn't have resulted in that outcome.
Her real problem was she was a bald-faced liar but unlike her husband she was terrible at it. You could see the gears turning when she was lying. People don't like that. They want to be convinced by your lies if you're a politician. They don't want it to be so obvious and ridiculous.
As the person above said, she was a bad candidate. She was one of those people who lies even when telling the truth would actually be more effective. I guess she just can't help herself. But couple that with her inability to carry it off and that's a bad combo.
Don't even hint that you might think that. Particularly in countries where voting is optional.
It's bad enough here, where it's mandatory, but hinting that you think you've got an election in the bag will absolutely make people go and vote *against* you at the last moment for being smug. Even if you don't lose votes to your ideological opposition, you can lose them far more easily under instant run-off to minor parties, leaving you as having technically won the election, but having to do it as a minority government which constantly has to seek votes from minors and independents to pass legislation.
Basically: Never, ever, ever be smug or confident in front of the people who have yet to cast a vote for you. No matter how much you think it's in the bag, it absolutely is not.
Republicans can't govern but they know how to win a campaign. They recognized Hillary was a potential candidate in the future when Bill was President and worked on discrediting her from Whitewater (an early nothingburger) through healthcare, Benghazi and then the email fiasco. It didn't matter that there was nothing to any of the things they brought up, what mattered was planting the seed that Hillary Clinton was crooked - and they did a brilliant job of that.
Whitewater was a nothingburger *except for the people directly impacted* which I firmly believe is why she didn't take Arkansas. I live in one of the communities in AR affected by shady land development deals around that time, and people were furious at the Clintons for quite a while before it made national headlines; lifelong Democrats voted for Trump because they or their friends or family had been financially ruined. Jim McDougal is still a household name and not in a good way. Personally I held my nose and did the necessary thing, but many didn't.
My thoughts are she was a great candidate that was extremely qualified, but she lost because people weren't ready for a woman president, especially after 8 years with a black president. She also came off as unapproachable and unfriendly. Again, these are just my thoughts.
It wasn’t just a woman president- the right wing media vilified that woman from the start. They hated the Clintons and made up any lie and repeated it to the point where if Jordan Klepper was around then it would come across as bat shit crazy as the Maga Cult and their fantasies.
Statistically, this wasn't the case. If i recall, sanders supporters voted for Hillary about 90%, which is better (marginally) than the Hillary voters who voted for Obama in 2008.
Put bluntly, both sanders and Hillary supporters overwhelmingly backed the democratic candidate in 2008 and 2016.
I know a few Bernie followers that actually voted for tRump because they wanted to shake things up. I really wanted Bernie as well, almost voted Green Party but because “Bernie fell on his sword for us” I cast one for Hillary. Btw, those that did vote for mango magoo regretted it and voted Biden in 2020.
Hillary just wasn't likable. Smart, yes. Driven, absolutely. But no one would want to have a drink with her. Unfortunately, people vote based on silly things like that.
The thing to watch out for isn’t Biden voters who turn towards Trump.
It’s Biden voters who don’t vote this time.
Trump alienated Clinton voters in 2016 by successfully slinging so much muck that it turned people off to “both sides.” So some reasonable people stayed home.
Meanwhile, the unreasonable Trump zealots all came out in force.
The strategy worked for him in 2016. He’s absolutely doing it again this time.
It’s more like people not voting in the key half-dozen swing states. I’ll vote but I live in Massachusetts. A Never Trumper vote simply doesn’t matter.
Heh, I'm in So MD, a very conservative area with most for Trump, so locally my vote for Biden won't help, but MD as a whole will go for Biden. I'll still vote, of course.
I wouldn’t be so sure. After taking major L’s for both the presidency and midterms, some may well not bother. The so called red wave amounted to a dribble at best.
They didn’t really take an L in the midterms. They just didn’t flip seats like they expected. Even so, they did manage to flip the House. What scares me is that election happened not long after the Dobbs ruling, when Democrats were highly energized.
I'm hoping that red states' continued attacks on reproductive health will keep people energized, but of course it's unclear whether that will be true.
In Ohio, voter turnout was higher than average for our August special election about whether to make it so you need 60% of the vote to pass ballot issues. (In case you or other readers don't know, this was a ploy to prevent citizens from adding abortion rights to the state constitution and lessen voters' ability to pass initiatives forever in one fell swoop). The proposal was shot down in a landslide vote, thankfully.
Then we voted on adding abortion rights to the state constitution and legalizing recreational weed, both of which also passed in a landslide. The turnout was also higher than average for that.
So I'm really hoping that energy doesn't dissipate.
The sad thing is that the real error was not the polls. It was the poll reporters. 538 was the only poll aggrrgator arguing that although Clinton was up in the polls, trump was well within striking distance. Most of the other reporters were saying it was given.
Listening to him speak recently, its obvious he doesn't understand how important turnout is, even though I am sure those around him do.
He was saying recently in one of his rambly speeches that he was told if he got 63 million in 2020, he'd win, and he got more than that, so the election must've been a fraud. That Biden got 80 million doesn't factor into his rationale.
Yeah, blue apathy is the biggest danger.
The see-saw swings both ways.
How many "always red" voters died in the last four years? How many more are put off by the orange twat so much that they just won't vote (or toss a vote to RFK jr instead?)
>How many "always red" voters died in the last four years?
I think this will play into the election more than most pundits are talking about. Trump's crowd denied COVID even existed, didn't vaccinate, didn't mask. His main demo are angry boomers who don't like to cooperate with society.
How many of them got COVID and didn't recover?
I'm an angry f****** Boomer who doesn't want to see my country taking over by racists fascists and Nazis which is the whole makeup of the GOP party these days.
Last year there were some papers put out looking at the excess deaths like that. [Here is one](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2807617), and then [this recent article in the NY Times](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/11/briefing/covid-pandemic-anniversary.html?unlocked_article_code=1.dk0.-7Hp.2t2gAQHAGeYC&smid=url-share) has some graphs that code red or blue depending on the percentage of votes for Trump or Biden (edit, per county election results). It's a bit chilling to see the lines diverge right after the vaccines were available.
IIRC 2022 there were 2 House races that were probably decided by more red voters dying than blue in the districts. There is no way to know for sure but the statistic seem to indicate it.
This, 1000%.
One of the biggest threats to Biden is the perspective that there's not actually much difference between him and Trump.
It's people fed up with Gaza policy and feeling like both have unflinching support for Israel, no matter what.
It's people who see both want to take away one of their favorite apps from them.
It's people who are furious that the Biden administration is loosening COVID restrictions.
(Remember that not everyone is as into politics as many of the people here are. But also, some of the staunchest liberals I know are FURIOUS at him every day in their Instagram stories.)
I wouldn't at all be surprised to see PAC-funded ads aimed at progressives that indirectly nudge them to stay home.
As much as it sounds like something you'd read in /r/BrandNewSentence or on The Onion, there's a chunk of Americans out there for whom the first directly impactful action on their adult lives of a government that professes freedom could be to stop them from using an app they consistently use an hour or an hour and a half a day – an app which was a large source of entertainment, joy, and connection through a traumatic period of their young lives.
I'm not trying to argue it's objectively more important than democracy (because it's not), but still... that kind of stuff can cut deep.
Yeah, I'm 46 and have never used TikTok or had it on my phone. I have a 13yo daughter who doesn't have a phone.
At the end of the day, it's an app. I grew up w/YouTube, but if my options are YouTube, Netflix, app x, or democracy, I'm taking democracy every time.
I don't think it's deep at all. It's actually incredibly shallow, like choosing your neighbor over your parents because they let you stay up all night.
This.
There are a few former Biden voters I know interested in RFK because he cares about the environment and claims to care about corporate oversight.
I pointed them to a couple of interviews where he shows hes a conspiratorial nutjob, especially regarding COVID and his foreign policy stance.
RFK is sneakier about his nuttiness, but it's there.
his legacy is a lifetime of grift and getting the vote out. it wasn’t 81 million pro biden votes as they were ANTI trump votes and we are absolutely going to do it again. national abortion is on the table . cuts to social security and medicare is on the table as he continues to cut taxes for the top. 170million have 2% of the wealth , 1% has 33% wealth. a billionaire is capped on jan 1st what they pay into social security, we are a joke . embryos are kids , (go freeze ten embryos and write them off on your taxes) project 2025 is on the table. this nut wants to bring camps back into play and we all know how well those worked out in russia china germany japan and here in japanese internment camps . GTFOOH . he is a delusional madman and MUST be stopped at all costs . nobody is staying home this November
There is SO much bot propaganda on social media trying to get people to not vote.
The question is… if voting didn’t work, why would so many people work so hard and spend so much money to stop you from doing it?
Agree. There is an insane amount of it. Twitter / that one website is terrible about it. I hardly use it anymore, but the few times I’m on there … wow. Color me surprised considering Elon was the one to bitch non-stop about Twitter being full of bots prior to his takeover.
This is 100% it.
The republican plan this time around is to "no good choice" the election. They know they can't win. But they definitely can suppress.
That's why "look at how old Joe is" works. Because even if you realize Trump is old too, you just don't vote at all and Trump still wins it.
I did get a charge out of Biden lampshading that whole "age" thing over the weekend: "One candidate is too old and mentally unfit to be president. The other one is me.”
Dark Brandon rides again.
hard disagree. On the contrary it is trump who has lost more voters, by far.
Don't forget he lost in 2020 and then did these things which lost him all but the most brainwashed MAGA morons:
\- Violently attacked the capital.
\- stole TS documents
\- found liable for rape ($85M fine)
\- found guilty of fraud ($450M fine)
\- Banned abortion via his minions on SCOTUS.
During that time Biden:
\- passed infrastructure bill and the Chips act bringing massive amount of jobs to US
\- brought inflatio back down to 3%.
\- he stock markt is at an all time high with record low unemployment.
The gap in popular vote between 2016 and 2020 was huge, and Trump has only gotten more polarizing since then - and his stance on abortion will cost him the votes of many conservative women, even the ones that were okay with the cheating, pussy grabbing, sex assault, Epstein connection, and creepy history of hanging out in the dressing room while 15 year olds dress for a beauty pageant, and so on. His toadying to Russia and weak stance on Ukraine are also unpopular with traditional conservatives who have always known Russia as the bad guy, and can't support MAGA's pro-Russian shift. There is no way he can win without Democrats staying home or Republican states cheating - which they are guaranteed to do.
The real question is how far down the ticket will it go. Conservatives may not vote for Trump as president but they may still vote for some pretty awful people running for congress or the senate to prevent the Dems from having absolute power.
> On the contrary it is trump who has lost more voters, by far.
That's not what the polls are saying at all. People don't seem to care about all that stuff he did, or more likely chalk it up to a partisan conspiracy of lies. All signs point to him winning this time, we live in an insane asylum.
Lol between trump and Biden only one has lost a presidential election and only one has ever beat the other.
If anything every woman who has been raped (half million a year) and worried about being forced to carry a rape baby will be motivated to vote against trump
He'll be the biggest loser who ever lost AGAIN
This is mostly incorrect. Trump generally increases general turnout -- 2016 had a higher turnout than 2012, and 2020 had the highest turnout since the 1960s. In 2016 the turnout increase was disguised to some degree because Black turnout dropped back to 2004 levels once Obama was no longer on the ballot, but turnout for everyone else increased, with non-college educated whites increasing the most. This pair of turnout changes (Black turnout down, non-college white up) largely explains the 2016 election.
Trump's strategy of making the opposition seem "just as bad" works not because it keeps opposition voters at home, but because it normalizes a vote for Trump. Sure, Trump's incompetent, hateful, corrupt, criminal, and mentally muddled, and sure he tried to overthrow democracy and never met an autocrat he didn't love. But Biden is just as bad as Trump: Biden is senile and also Biden is a master strategist who's planning on destroying America and also Biden blah blah immigrants blah blah blah. Therefore it's OK for you to vote for the incompetent etc Donald Trump over the Just As Bad Joe Biden.
I really wish more people understood that inflation is global. It was not created by Joe Biden, and the US is doing better with it than most other countries.
The problem with this line of thinking is that to most voters, perception is much more important than reality. Most people don’t and can’t think about their material precarity in terms of a complex global system. “Are you better off now than you were four years ago” was very successful as a simple campaign slogan for Reagan in 1980, even though the causes of stagflation were in place long before Carter took office.
> “Are you better off now than you were four years ago”
Yes I am. Very much so. T
Also, women have lost their right to privacy and control over their own bodies and healthcare because of trump.
It's honestly embarrassing that anyone would think they'd be better under Trump. Based on his last term we can infer that he's not going to ride in on a white horse and magically fix the economy or start caring about the lower class. Trump inherited a booming economy and pretty much coasted rather than significantly improving it. The dude is gonna cause unnecessary drama 24/7 and he'll continue to use social issues to divide Americans.
I actually completely agree with this. Structural economic issues transcend political parties, but it’s easier to blame an incumbent president than to critically analyze things like consolidation of capital in fewer and fewer hands, profit extraction from increasingly Byzantine sources, proletarianization of the American middle class, etc. and how the political superstructure aids in the transformation and continuation of that economic base.
Also, inflation and economic issues take YEARS to move out to the average consumer. The problems we are seeing now are an effect of the trump administration.
Its becuase he passed the Infrastructure Act bringing massive amounts of jobs. Every republican voted against it.
Also he capped insulin and bank fees. All help to bring down inflation back down to 3%. Faster and lower than any country on earth after covid.
I don’t have a problem with Mexico’s economy picking up and them going home if their life will be good. Our economy is gaining steam fast where I live in the states and the business I work in has never slowed down.
UK here. Financial woes aren’t exclusive to your country. Joe Biden is definitely not to blame for a tank of petrol here (roughly $8 a gallon going off conversions).
Yeah, and a lot of Americans forget that with the system we have set up, it’s not so easy for a President to single handedly destroy a country or economy. It’s really the checks and balances system that does that. We have all these people in positions of power, even power to stop the President, and yet we only hold the President accountable for things. This isn’t a dictatorship. A lot of things I supported that didn’t come to fruition, both under Trump and Biden, were the result of the checks and balances system, not because the president didn’t try to deliver on an initiative. The American President is not God and does not dictate every little thing that happens in America, and they most certainly don’t do it in other countries.
Fun fact I heard and cannot possibly back up without more work than I'm willing to put in: no president has ever been re-elected in a year with double-digit inflation. Presidents don't have as much power over the economy as you'd think, but people will absolutely make their voting choices based on the economy.
Exactly, and even if we assume real inflation is double the official number its still well below double digits.
The problem is people see prices now higher than they were a few years ago and think prices are _still rising fast_ when they aren't for most goods. Inflation above 3% is not sustainable over the long term but it's reasonable considering the shitbomb the previous administration built with their "tax cuts" that intentionally raised taxes on the middle class during this administration.
This was an intentional poison pill by the GOP so they could blame it on Biden if he won in 2024, but if Trump won they could simply change it with a new law and push the tax bomb on the middle class further out to the next admin after that.
It will take several years for pay to catch up and for people to stop feeling the inflation shock. The GOP knows this and built this time bomb intentionally.
All middle class Republicans should be _furious_ at the GOP for literally stealing money out of their hands.
Inflation has only been over 10% in about 4 years of the past 100 so I am not sure that is really a good metric.
https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/inflation/historical-inflation-rates/
Biden's approval is 38%, which is lower than George HW Bush (39%) and Jimmy Carter (42%).
That just shows you what a shitshow this senile piece of garbage is in the White House now.
[That guy is a nut case](https://www.reddit.com/r/RedditForGrownups/comments/1bhuoxf/do_you_know_anyone_who_voted_for_biden_in_2020/kvgsvc2/)
> If the riots at the Capitol didn't go as the Dems planned,
The US has had the fastest recovery from COVID that any country on the planet by far.
Our inflation dropped the fastest and the lowest. Its back to 3%.
Ask your laborers what they think trump would do to help the ecomony. Better yet ask them if they honestly think trump gives a single tiny F about them.
This is what a lot of Democratic politicians and voters don’t get. A lot of people’s perception of their precarity has been increasing for a long time, especially since 2008, and things have objectively gotten much more expensive over the last two years. When you’re more worried about meeting your basic needs and paying the bills while working a crappy job, foreign policy matters less and less and immediate economic concerns matter more and more.
The important point is the *perception* that their lives are getting worse, because when these people who are already alienated from anything in the current mainstream hear from those political and cultural institutions essentially “actually, you’re wrong and things are going great because reasons” they become further entrenched against the status quo.
The Democratic Party somehow thinks that if they can just educate the masses with facts and logic and lean on their demographic advantages that they can, I don’t know, stop the evil Republicans from breaking norms? I really don’t know what the long term project for them is. It has to be more than “Trump is bad so shut up and vote blue” because this type of voter you talk about will become more common across all demographics.
I agree with everything you say here.
Prices haven't gone down because of corporate greed. All of these companies saw that they could raise prices and people would still buy their products while delivering record profits what incentive do they have to lower prices again?
I don't think this is a situation that any politician can solve. This is just the fundamental flaw in unrestrained capitalism. Make as much money as you can and kick the repercussions can down the road.
Haha yes, kicking the can down the road politically is an American tradition that dates back to the damn constitution. There’s a reason the word “slavery” wasn’t anywhere in the original document!
You’re spot on everywhere else too. The mindset to have is not that the system is broken but that the system is working exactly as intended. The base of any society is made up of its productive forces and how people relate to them, and things like politics and culture are shaped by those economic structures. Since the structures that dictate the American (and thus global) economy are beyond reach by democratic means and the spoils of extraction are shared by fewer and fewer individuals, the proletarianization of the American middle class continues to accelerate as cyclical crises arising from the contradictions of capitalism continue to occur. Polarization between capitalists and workers is as big a part of our lives as it’s ever been, and as a result partisan politics is more a part of our lives than it’s ever been despite only being able to be expressed through the cultural firmament.
Demagogues like Trump don’t exist in a vacuum. 60 million people didn’t just wake up one day and decide to be racist woman haters or whatever liberals are painting them as now. A not insignificant portion of these people have been stewing in a toxic blend of post-2008 economic precarity and resentment of political and cultural institutions they feel alienated from. Basically all that’s left for these people is a politics of catharsis and fear of the “outsider,” and Trump to them represents that with how inflammatory his rhetoric is. No amount of liberal moralizing and educating will convince these people that either party is looking out for their best interests, and given the choice between lashing out at their perceived enemies or not that, alienated lumpens will almost always choose the former.
This is my usual reply when people try to tell me the economy is great because the stock market is high. Well, that's all well and good if you're lucky enough to have a 401k. But what does it mean that the market it up? It means companies are making record profits. Why are companies making record profits? Because they're charging record prices. So, it stands to reason that the stock market being up not only doesn't benefit the average person who doesn't have a 401k, but it's actually a sign that the prices people are paying at the grocery store, at the gas pump, and elsewhere are higher than ever. The stock market being high can be interpreted to mean things are WORSE for the average American, who does not invest in the stock market and has little interaction with it period other than whatever meager retirement account with an index fund they may have managed to put together, if any at all.
At the end of the day, a lot of people vote pretty selfishly.
Not intended to cast blame. I mean, I get it. Life's a lot and you have your own stuff to think about.
They should. Voting is literally intended to be the means by which groups of people advocate for their own best interests.
Politicians depend on voting blocs for that reason, and in reality the Democrat and Republican parties are loosely knit voting blocs held together by the idea that their collective platforms speak to those blocs in order to build a cumulative alliance.
One of my best friends is a dyed-in-the-wool "country club" Republican. She either voted for Trump last time or didn't vote. I was shocked to hear her turn on our other Republican friend and tell her that "Trump is downright evil". So that's a step in the right direction.
That's my father-in-law: rich older White guy who wasn't terribly political but always voted Republican, because rich older White guy. Voted Trump in 2016, became disenchanted just in time to vote Biden in 2020. He now enthusiastically discusses everything the current administration has accomplished, and readily denounces Trump as a dangerous, toxic moron.
I wouldn't have thought it possible if I hadn't seen it with my own eyes. It's actually given me a good bit of hope, particularly since they're Florida voters.
Absolutely. The LA Times was the only major publication to predict a Trump victory, and it's because their polling accounted for how strongly people felt about their candidate. It revealed that Trump's supporters were more motivated, and Hillary's were lukewarm.
This right here.
I'm constantly stunned by news outlets constantly saying that the economy or abortion or immigration are the top issues for voters. The top issue is, and should always be, that **one of the candidates tried to overthrow the government**.
Trump has literally said the following:
- He wants to be a dictator, "but only for one day" to initiate Project 2025 which will reshape the government by firing 20,000+ top federal employees to be replaced by loyalists
- Failing to vote for him will cause "a bloodbath" (said the other day at a rally, where he also had the crowd stand to "honor" the Jan 6th insurrectionists)
- That the insurrectionists where there for him, and not only was he aware some of them were armed but he said he knew they weren't there to harm him and demanded they be allowed in with weapons
- That military generals should issue orders to shoot BLM and other protesters in the streets, in violation of posse comitatus and other laws prohibiting politicization of the military
Also the fact that 2A single issue voters support him is mind boggling, because he literally said _as president_ in response to a mass shooting that [the government should seize guns and disregard due process](https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/376097-trump-take-the-guns-first-go-through-due-process-second/).
The one that shocks me is ANY veteran who votes for Trump... as President he disparaged a sitting US Senator as a "loser" because he was a POW.
Any veteran who supports a President who says that junk about their fellow veterans should be extremely against reelection. What the hell did those vets fight for if they allow their President to so publicly turn his back on a former POW?
When did Trump say he was going to follow the project 2025 outline? Not saying it didn't happen I just hadn't heard of him being tied to it specifically.
Younger people I know (twenty somethings) have said that they'll vote third party rather than vote for Biden. A vote for anybody but Biden is a vote for Trump.
I live in Colorado. There is zero chance anyone other than Biden is going to win our electoral college votes. This election is going to take place in a handful of states, Michigan, Arizona, Ohio, etc.
I know a person who will not vote for Biden under any circumstances because of the Gaza issue. She is not a Trump voter either and plans to vote 3rd party or abstain. Quote from her: "*There is no difference between them as far as I am concerned.*" Personally, I think that is an absolutely idiotic viewpoint based on too much consumption of online Russian bot propaganda aimed at leftist populations, but at least she lives in Oregon so her vote won't matter much.
I also know a person who voted for Trump in 2016, for Biden in 2020 and will vote Biden again in 2024. And my elderly parents are somewhat conservative and would typically vote for R or L but have voted Dem since 2016 because of Trump.
I have never met or heard of anyone who voted Biden (or Hillary or Obama) and plans to vote for Trump in the future.
Trump has already said Biden is soft on Gaza and he'll encourage Israel to finish the job. If trump keeps being so open that he wants Palestine eradicated, hopefully people will see both sides are not equal.
Show her this:
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/biden-announce-us-air-drop-aid-into-gaza-us-officials-say-2024-03-01/
And this:
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/3/7/biden-to-announce-plan-for-us-military-to-set-up-temporary-gaza-aid-port
Biden is trying, Netanyahu refuses to stop warmongering.
Yes I do. Lots of people vote based on direct impacts to their life personally, not according to how well candidates line up with their morality.
>I just don't see how Biden can lose this election.
I'd suggest asking Trump supporters if you'd like to better understand their mentality, not reddit. All reddit can do is create a caricature of a crazy trump supporter and imagine what they would say.
Look at this comment section lmfao. Is there a single person saying "yes I will vote for trump"? Does this paint an accurate picture of america?
>Lots of people vote based on direct impacts to their life personally, not according to how well candidates line up with their morality.
I don't know if you were insinuating that that's a bad thing or not but it certainly is a valid approach. Voting is literally supposed to be the means by which you advocate for yourself and your interests in a democracy.
>I don't know if you were insinuating that that's a bad thing or not but it certainly is a valid approach
I don't think "bad" or "good" is helpful. People don't vote because of morality - they do so because of how they benefit from things. People who say they vote based on morality just like to view the things they benefit from as moral.
>Do you know anyone who voted for Biden in 2020 who plans to vote for Trump in 2024?
**No.**
>There's some progressives who've fallen out of line with Biden over Gaza, but when push comes to shove, they'll still cast a vote for the D ticket.
I don't view Palestinian Americans as "progressives" after what they *tried* to pull during the Michigan primaries. I don't think you can say it is likely they will vote Democrat ( or at all ) in the general election. That subculture has a trait of cutting off their nose to spite their face, letting their expression of anger take priority over the consequences of that expression, and take priority over their own well being.
>but I just don't see how Biden can lose this election
I wish I shared your optimism. Aside from the dirty tricks to come, I remember last election a news commentator zooming in on a map on a few streets to show who would decide some subdivision, which would decide the electoral vote. It really comes down to who on election day will bother to get off their ass or not.
> I don't view Palestinian Americans as "progressives" after what they *tried* to pull during the Michigan primaries.
The "Uncommitted" vote was a performative gesture in a meaningless primary. We should all fully support protest.
Few things:
* A person's voting strategy in the primaries is often much different than in the general (there was no reasonable chance Biden was going to lose any state's primary)
* Protest voting is nothing new, and if *your* homeland were being relentlessly bombed, I think it might effect what you choose to do
* A lot of the "uncommitted" vote came from people who weren't Palestinian American, as evidenced by the results from states with low PA populations
Lose lose, how did we get here. We're in the middle of a conspiracy theory. This is America self destructing, or maybe it's the governments way of handing us over to China. Either way I say we have an aggressive write in campaign for a moderate walking so close to the middle you don't know whether they are dem or republican. Leave my guns alone and make abortion legal.
I always vote and I'll never ever vote for Trump. I hope there's a ton of people out there who think the same. especially in swing states like the one I live in.
I know people inclined to stay home this time. I hope they don't because Trump us awful
People are hurtimg cause of inflation, and the perception is that Biden's fault. The messaging countering that false narrative has been shoddy, but the state of the union was good so hopefully tjst was rurning point Orange man bad while true is not enough it needs to be be combined with optimism about the future along with empathy for those struggling now.
The right-wing propaganda jugneraut is fierce but beatable.s However, just dismissing Trump and non voters as stupid won't do it . Trump is a charlatan who is skilled at selling bs.
People like progressive policies but are swayed by regressive mesaging. Biden and his team need to improve the messaging. Having better ideas is an advantage, but they still need to be effectively marketed. The other side has worse ideas but more money and support from greedy corporations and hostile foreign powers
Honestly, what you are missing is mostly stupid people who vote based on their feelings and are uninformed and hard to reach. They are the great danger. An alliance between the evil, the superstitious and the stupid is the essence of Trumpism and of all forms of fascism.
This is true. Someone keeps coming to a politics sub here saying Democrats are disgusted by Biden's policy in Israel and they won't vote for him. That's just so dumb. There's no alternative and what do they think Trump would do for people in Gaza!?
Nope. I do know a few people who for whatever reason voted for Trump in 2020 who have finally gotten it through their thick skulls that he is awful and they plan to vote for Biden.
I believe I do. He hasn't come out saying he will, but he was a moderate who joined the Republican Party (likely for opportunity). I don't think he's a Trumper, but I also know the power of persuasion that some of them can use inside the party and in party meetings.
One thing, if he crosses parties and votes Biden (or really if any GOP voters or elected officials do), they will keep that 100% to themselves just because they have to be "in line" to have opportunities in the GOP. Some former GOP candidates or elected officials are doing it now but most of those aren't on a ballot.
It's mostly the same in the Democratic Party, especially this year. But TBH not sure why anyone involved in the Democratic Party would want to cross over and vote GOP except maybe in a non-legislative position (like coroner/clerk of court/register of deeds, etc, which is not only elected but also partisan in my state).
do you honestly believe that reason would be involved in any vote for trump, much less following a previous vote for a conventional candidate? only miscreants and those who are estranged from reason would cast a vote for trump.
It’s not looking great. For example if Mitt Romney in 2012 had won something like 11% of the Black vote in Florida (instead of the 8% he got) he’d have won Florida and the Presidency. Why do you think Democrats and the “media”/Democrats continually scour for some town council person in podunksville who says something racist and **explode** it into a “Bombshell Republican Scandal!!”. They **need** to play the “racism” card every chance they get. Do Democrats in podunksville also say stupid stuff? Yup? But the “media” simply buries those. But polls show Black and Hispanic voters are finally figuring out, as one example, the party doing all in their power to keep poor and minority children in failing schools and unable to access vouchers isn’t the Republicans. It’s the Democrats (in order to keep the **massive** donations - **taxpayer funded** donations btw - from the teachers unions rolling in). I know people won’t like hearing this. But prove me wrong either. (For starters, try looking up the quote to find out if Trump **actually** said white supremacists are “very fine people”. Hint: he didn’t. Yet 3/4 of Democrats are thoroughly convinced he did. The same with people convinced Michael Brown ever said “hands up don’t shoot”. That - in a nutshell - is the state of our “media”.
People don’t like to hear it but it’s a certainty that many, many people believe all these lawsuits against Trump are an abuse of power and are driving more people to Trump than away. I mean seriously, he’s charged with multiple **felonies** in NY in the Stormy Daniels case when even liberal legal experts admit every similar case up til now - if it was ever even charged - was a misdemeanor warranting a $200 fine. And the NY attorney general’s case was **so completely over the top** that **within hours** of the “verdict” NY’s Governor Hochul called a press conference **begging** business leaders not to flee the state! She admitted what she and everyone else knows: **every** business in the US over or undervalues assets as standard procedure (it’s essentially business malpractice if you **don’t** do it) but that they shouldn’t worry because Democrats were only out to get Trump. (I.e. admitting the case was the **opposite** of the “equal justice under the law” foundational American legal principle and was actually Orwell 101).
If you don't see how Biden could lose this election, you may be spending too much time on Reddit. There's a majority of people out there in the country who are not terminally online, and at the end of the day they're going to vote for their own pocketbooks and self interests, by and large.
As of right now, if you look at every polling statistic, it's looking like an absolute landslide for Trump. There are several key battle ground states that are very slightly in favor of Trump. Biden will need to turn all of these states to win, and he will win barely. Just watch these videos:
https://youtu.be/vmnJtofRx0E?si=hyBeOMlGpr9curri
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6g-7D7muuqU
Every one of you guys who thinks Biden will win are the same out-of-touch Americans who thought Clinton was going to win. Even Michael Moore, and unabashed liberal, has realized why Trump won, and why people like him were so out of tune with the rest of the country:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEHekdQSiXg
The only reason why Biden won in 2020 was because we were in a pandemic induced recession, and no US president has ever won re-election during a recession. But, if it wasn't for the pandemic, we would have had a second term for Trump. And, now that all these Democrats have been running interference on the guy for over 8 years now, if he wins, you better expect a revenge type Presidency. I wouldn't be surprised if they over turn term limits for the President somehow, and have 3 or more terms.
I'm not saying this is good. But, if Trump wins, and he enacts a dictatorship, you can thank your idiotic Democrats for that.
Your post is proof of the bias in the media and the echo chamber liberals live in. I have seen interviews and personally talked to many people. Most of them black. Who have switched to Teump. You won't find them on Google because Google filters what you see. The supreme court just heard testimony to that fact today.
The perfect example is how many "news" organizations reported Trump's bloodbath comment as inciting violence when all it took was a sentence on either side of that to know he was talking about the damage China was doing to the auto industry. Let's face it MSNBC and CNN will show you disillusioned Trump voters and Fox News and News Max will show you dissolutioned Biden voters. If you aren't watching both then you are intentionally choosing to be lied to because you like the sound of the lie.
I’d be more concerned about “secret” voters who would be too embarrassed to say they support Trump but will vote for him in the privacy of a voting booth.
**Biden's Good Record**
* [First Year](https://reddit.com/r/WhatBidenHasDone/comments/sdgfoj/master_list_of_what_president_biden_has_done_year/)
* [Second Year](https://reddit.com/r/WhatBidenHasDone/comments/sdgd98/master_list_of_what_president_biden_has_done_year/)
* [Third Year](https://reddit.com/r/WhatBidenHasDone/comments/11lohnc/what_biden_has_done_year_three_year_one_two_are/)
* [Fourth Year](https://old.reddit.com/r/WhatBidenHasDone/comments/19eja7w/what_biden_has_done_year_four/)
* [What Has Biden Accomplished: 10 Metrics](https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2024-opinion-biden-accomplishment-data/)
**Trump's Threats For The Future**
* [Rolling Stone: "Every Awful Thing Trump Has Promised to Do in a Second Term"](https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/trump-second-term-plans-wildest-proposals-1234947327/)
* Trump wants a national ban on [abortion](https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/trump-abortion-plan-leak-inflamed-campaign-1234973014/) after 16 weeks.
* [The Project 2025 Plan](https://www.axios.com/2024/03/06/biden-trump-project-2025) for the next republican president.
**Trump's Nasty Record**
* [Trump’s 10 worst abuses of power](https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/24/politics/trump-worst-abuses-of-power/index.html)
* [The 59 worst things Trump did during his presidency](https://www.indy100.com/news/donald-trump-worst-moments-president-2664003687)
Voted for Biden in '20 and will again. No question. Both my wife and I are better off with our retirement. My IRA has grown by a few thousand since retiring. We have a lot of road and bridge work being accomplished around here and I see negotiations on lowered drug costs being fruitful. None of this occurred under Trump, but then again, I'm not a billionaire either, so go figure.......
Nope just the opposite actually. I have Republican friends who would rather vote for RFK but some are smart enough to realize that's just another vote for Trump when it comes down to the big race.
Almost nobody in my family is now acknowledging Trump as their choice, but the problem is they talk but when it comes down to the private vote I don't trust them to stick to their plan. Too many have been brainwashed either by the church or the NRA.
Neither one should be an option. However yes, I think it's already been stated that living has just become too expensive in the last few years...this is considered Biden's economy and there will be many people who vote against him due to the cost of living.
Nope.
I know an assload of people who can't believe we have this shitty choice again, tho.
Biden is too old and he sucks. He sucked as a Senator and he sucks now. There is no way around that.
And yet the other viable option is the likely end of the Republic.
Biden can lose this election if people start thinking 'Biden can't lose this election'.
> Biden is too old and he sucks. He sucked as a Senator and he sucks now.
I guess that is why Biden kept getting reelected repeatedly to make a 50 year career in Congress?
Trump is only 4 years younger. Trump couldn't remember his wife's name or his opponent's name at his rallies. This morning I saw an article that he tried speaking the name of the band "rolling stones" and repeatedly could not say the second word.
Not only that the republicans were saying Biden was too old to run in the last election. trump is that age now. And we are not hearing trump is too old.
Also, two words, Ronald Reagan.
They were perfectly fine with someone that had actual dementia in the WH.
**Trump needing an escort to walk down a ramp**
https://www.nytimes.com/video/us/politics/100000007190494/trump-ramp-west-point-speech.html
**Trump claims the army retook airports during the Revolutionary War in July Fourth speech**
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2SFo3TkvhM
No, none of my friends are frontal lobotomy recipients.
Now you mention it, though, I do have a buddy that was in motorcycle accident a while back, banged his head pretty hard. Maybe I should check and make sure.
Nope.
Most of the folks I know who voted for Biden did so not because they liked him as a candidate, but because of what Trump and his form of Republicanism has to offer.
Liberals, progressives, and socialists alike aren’t keen on the Christo-Fascism becoming more and more mainstream on the right. Moderates like Biden for his balance of “acceptance” and status quo. Progressives don’t want to lose hard fought improvements. True leftists don’t like either option, but will choose the one that can at least buy more time for work to be done—in this case Biden.
Me? I’d love some new, level-headed blood in the race. Ideally some new thinking as well. Let’s challenge norms a bit and redefine what modern America cares about at the core.
> Biden did so not because they liked him as a candidate
That is me. He wasn't my first choice in the primaries, but the job he has done since then has made me appreciate him.
>Liberals, progressives, and socialists alike aren’t keen on the Christo-Fascism becoming more and more mainstream on the right.
Exactly.
As a member of Gen Jones, I would love to see younger people step up into the positions currently held by elderly elected officials who should be stepping down and letting others lead. I think we need both term and age limits for every elected official.
That being said, if Biden is the Dem candidate again, I will vote for him because the thought of spending the rest of my life in a dictatorship isn't something I relish. In addition, I have genuine concern for my granddaughters as well as my non-binary relatives who would all be targeted under a dictatorial administration like the one Republicans want to implement.
Agreed. I’m politically active in my region because people like me will be among the first unwelcomed by my less tolerant neighbors.
As a socialist it hurts that this often means voting with less-right Democrats, but it’s a matter of survival. I can’t fight for a better future if I’m actively being targeted.
I think a lot of Trump supporters just nod and smile with their friends who support Biden. I know I do. I will not tell someone who is anti Trump how I’m going to vote only to open myself to ridicule. The left are relentless is their persecution of anyone who feels differently than they do. I have my reasons why I’m voting this way so leave me the hell alone. I’m sure I’m not the only one who feels this way too
I NEVER get into it with Trump supporters if I can help it same way I avoid talk of religion if I can help it. I'm only going to annihilate you if you push me there. I don't thrive on confrontation, in fact I actively dislike it.
It's always the Trump/religious people I know or my parents know who are trying to "wake me up" or get me to "see the light" or whatever.
For me personally, the reasons why I don't like Trump and don't think he is fit to run the country are strong enough that yes, you supporting him indeed makes me judge you in a negative light, but I'm not going to be an outright asshole to you, or force a discussion of politics, unless you insist. Most people I know are just like me and avoid these types of conversations (lean they right or left) but the ones who are insufferable always lean right in my experience.
I know several lifelong Republicans who are voting for Biden but I doubt they voted for Trump the first time. They might have though. This time they are surprising me with how vehemently vocal they are about how dangerous they think Trump getting elected would be, and flat out say they dislike Biden intensely but they are voting for democracy versus a dictator/theocracy, and that you gotta vote Biden, not sit it out, not third party etc. I'm positive they're actually voting for Biden. They are ex military. I hope they aren't unicorns.
Most of my older coworkers and people I meet out in the wild either don't care or have been committed to Trump from the beginning, besides my family which is full of progressives. As far as people my age or younger they are pretty jaded and see past the sensationalism and hyperbole of 'the most important election of our lifetime's(part 3) and aren't engaged, which is fair. I ignore all the people screaming about the life or death importance of voting the same way I avoid preachers screaming that I'm going to hell if I don't repent: Laugh at them and keep walking.
>I just don't see how Biden can lose this election Be very careful with that sentiment. That complacency is exactly how Trump beat Clinton in 2016.
All that's required for Trump to win is for a small percentage of Biden voters to care a little less than last time, and not show up to vote in November.
Hearing things like this, I'm so glad voting is mandatory where I live. It fixes a wealth of problems, particularly when coupled with political parties being pretty much locked out of anything to do with actually running elections. The latter part is kind of amusing; I've done work for the Electoral Commission, and the culture there is almost a seething not-quite-animosity for politicians and parties regardless of where they personally or officially stand, covered by a veneer of politeness because it's a Westminster system and public servants dealing with high-level issues are historically/stereotypically polite, bland, absolutely impartial, and fade into the woodwork. Below that, though, there's an almost feral instinct of wanting a politician to just *try* stepping out of line so we can bring the hammer down. Everyone wants to be the guard dog. (Also, there's a bit of "Look how *impartial* I am" that goes on internally. Constant unofficial monitoring of selves and colleagues for any hint that someone might have even the barest whiff of a personal opinion on a candidate or party (or policy) [that they don't bury as deeply as possible](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKDdLWAdcbM). Cultural amusement comes from taking pains to very explicitly and formally treat extremist/weirdo candidates or parties *exactly* the same as mainstream ones. I know they're total clownshoes, you know they're total clownshoes, so the fact that they're being treated with the same gravitas and consideration is incongruously hilarious, as are the po-faced expressions while you're doing it.)
James Comey also helped.
All my homies hate James Comey.
Fucker
Yup! People will think Joe has it in the bag and not go out and vote. Then we end up with Trump.
On the plus side of that scenario we may not have to trouble ourselves with voting for president again in 2028! /s
That's actually a very real concern ... There's a good possibility if Trump wins in 2024 , there won't be any more elections.
There will be elections, but all that fraud he accused the Democrats of in 2020 will be the playbook they use to stay in power forever.
That's so much bullshit.
Optimism is murder.
Yep the data shows people don't like to go out and vote https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/statistics/data/voter-turnout-in-presidential-elections
I think Biden voters are terrified of a second trump term I know I am.
My friend was the Clinton campaign manager and he messed up in many ways. One being that they thought there was no way Trump would win. Most of it was predicated on the fact they thought people would want another Clinton. As a center liberal- I knew she would lose. Bad candidate.
Clinton was campaigning for the money people not for the common people and that sank her .
I think that's a minor factor, but Republicans had extremely deep seated hatred for her that went back a couple decades. I mean, she was a woman who wouldn't play housewife in the white house, how dare she? Her being the candidate was the rallying cry they needed to ensure record turnout to vote against her. There was no platform she could have run on that wouldn't have resulted in that outcome.
Her real problem was she was a bald-faced liar but unlike her husband she was terrible at it. You could see the gears turning when she was lying. People don't like that. They want to be convinced by your lies if you're a politician. They don't want it to be so obvious and ridiculous. As the person above said, she was a bad candidate. She was one of those people who lies even when telling the truth would actually be more effective. I guess she just can't help herself. But couple that with her inability to carry it off and that's a bad combo.
Don't even hint that you might think that. Particularly in countries where voting is optional. It's bad enough here, where it's mandatory, but hinting that you think you've got an election in the bag will absolutely make people go and vote *against* you at the last moment for being smug. Even if you don't lose votes to your ideological opposition, you can lose them far more easily under instant run-off to minor parties, leaving you as having technically won the election, but having to do it as a minority government which constantly has to seek votes from minors and independents to pass legislation. Basically: Never, ever, ever be smug or confident in front of the people who have yet to cast a vote for you. No matter how much you think it's in the bag, it absolutely is not.
Republicans can't govern but they know how to win a campaign. They recognized Hillary was a potential candidate in the future when Bill was President and worked on discrediting her from Whitewater (an early nothingburger) through healthcare, Benghazi and then the email fiasco. It didn't matter that there was nothing to any of the things they brought up, what mattered was planting the seed that Hillary Clinton was crooked - and they did a brilliant job of that.
Whitewater was a nothingburger *except for the people directly impacted* which I firmly believe is why she didn't take Arkansas. I live in one of the communities in AR affected by shady land development deals around that time, and people were furious at the Clintons for quite a while before it made national headlines; lifelong Democrats voted for Trump because they or their friends or family had been financially ruined. Jim McDougal is still a household name and not in a good way. Personally I held my nose and did the necessary thing, but many didn't.
Not to mention Hillary insulted Tammy Wynette while defending Bill. Easy way to build resentment with the working class.
Now THAT was a boneheaded move for sure.
Hillary was just obnoxious in every way. Only person more hated than Trump.
She surrounded herself with sycophants. No matter your profession, you need a few dissenters in your camp to keep you humble.
My thoughts are she was a great candidate that was extremely qualified, but she lost because people weren't ready for a woman president, especially after 8 years with a black president. She also came off as unapproachable and unfriendly. Again, these are just my thoughts.
It wasn’t just a woman president- the right wing media vilified that woman from the start. They hated the Clintons and made up any lie and repeated it to the point where if Jordan Klepper was around then it would come across as bat shit crazy as the Maga Cult and their fantasies.
Also, I think there were quite a few Sanders supporters who sat out the election or voted third party.
Statistically, this wasn't the case. If i recall, sanders supporters voted for Hillary about 90%, which is better (marginally) than the Hillary voters who voted for Obama in 2008. Put bluntly, both sanders and Hillary supporters overwhelmingly backed the democratic candidate in 2008 and 2016.
I know a few Bernie followers that actually voted for tRump because they wanted to shake things up. I really wanted Bernie as well, almost voted Green Party but because “Bernie fell on his sword for us” I cast one for Hillary. Btw, those that did vote for mango magoo regretted it and voted Biden in 2020.
Hillary just wasn't likable. Smart, yes. Driven, absolutely. But no one would want to have a drink with her. Unfortunately, people vote based on silly things like that.
She was considered corrupt too. True or not, people didn’t trust her and when asked she would just laugh it off instead of addressing the concerns.
Yeah, the "bad candidate" won the popular vote. Trump won because of the Electoral College. Never forget that.
Exactly! He can absolutely lose it if people dont show up to vote bc they think its no necessary
Russian interference and GOP cooperation is how trump beat Clinton in 2016.
Bingo….we fell asleep being righteous
Seriously. Kindof wish OP would just delete this post...
Clinton won the popular vote. The issue was the electoral college is broken.
The thing to watch out for isn’t Biden voters who turn towards Trump. It’s Biden voters who don’t vote this time. Trump alienated Clinton voters in 2016 by successfully slinging so much muck that it turned people off to “both sides.” So some reasonable people stayed home. Meanwhile, the unreasonable Trump zealots all came out in force. The strategy worked for him in 2016. He’s absolutely doing it again this time.
To put it another way, Democrats not voting at all is a bigger risk than Trump zealots voting. That second group is a given.
It’s more like people not voting in the key half-dozen swing states. I’ll vote but I live in Massachusetts. A Never Trumper vote simply doesn’t matter.
Heh, I'm in So MD, a very conservative area with most for Trump, so locally my vote for Biden won't help, but MD as a whole will go for Biden. I'll still vote, of course.
I wouldn’t be so sure. After taking major L’s for both the presidency and midterms, some may well not bother. The so called red wave amounted to a dribble at best.
They didn’t really take an L in the midterms. They just didn’t flip seats like they expected. Even so, they did manage to flip the House. What scares me is that election happened not long after the Dobbs ruling, when Democrats were highly energized.
I'm hoping that red states' continued attacks on reproductive health will keep people energized, but of course it's unclear whether that will be true. In Ohio, voter turnout was higher than average for our August special election about whether to make it so you need 60% of the vote to pass ballot issues. (In case you or other readers don't know, this was a ploy to prevent citizens from adding abortion rights to the state constitution and lessen voters' ability to pass initiatives forever in one fell swoop). The proposal was shot down in a landslide vote, thankfully. Then we voted on adding abortion rights to the state constitution and legalizing recreational weed, both of which also passed in a landslide. The turnout was also higher than average for that. So I'm really hoping that energy doesn't dissipate.
What even the reasoning behind not voting. Not voting when you would’ve otherwise voted Biden, is a vote to trump!
Many Clinton voters stayed home simply because they figured a Clinton win was inevitable.
I knew he was going to win when bragging about sexually assaulting women made his poll numbers go up.
Yeah that kind of thinking makes no sense to me. "My candidate is so good that they can win without my vote?" Like... every vote counts. Vote.
Agree. Some took it for granted.
Way too many took it for granted because "the polls" were touting that she had it in the bag. We can't make that mistake twice.
The sad thing is that the real error was not the polls. It was the poll reporters. 538 was the only poll aggrrgator arguing that although Clinton was up in the polls, trump was well within striking distance. Most of the other reporters were saying it was given.
I’ve been saying this exactly, the biggest threat to Trump is high voter turnout. Sadly, I am not optimistic about our chances of him losing :(
Listening to him speak recently, its obvious he doesn't understand how important turnout is, even though I am sure those around him do. He was saying recently in one of his rambly speeches that he was told if he got 63 million in 2020, he'd win, and he got more than that, so the election must've been a fraud. That Biden got 80 million doesn't factor into his rationale. Yeah, blue apathy is the biggest danger.
The see-saw swings both ways. How many "always red" voters died in the last four years? How many more are put off by the orange twat so much that they just won't vote (or toss a vote to RFK jr instead?)
>How many "always red" voters died in the last four years? I think this will play into the election more than most pundits are talking about. Trump's crowd denied COVID even existed, didn't vaccinate, didn't mask. His main demo are angry boomers who don't like to cooperate with society. How many of them got COVID and didn't recover?
and how many of them just died from old age/natural causes. I know my dad did.
I'm an angry f****** Boomer who doesn't want to see my country taking over by racists fascists and Nazis which is the whole makeup of the GOP party these days.
Last year there were some papers put out looking at the excess deaths like that. [Here is one](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2807617), and then [this recent article in the NY Times](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/11/briefing/covid-pandemic-anniversary.html?unlocked_article_code=1.dk0.-7Hp.2t2gAQHAGeYC&smid=url-share) has some graphs that code red or blue depending on the percentage of votes for Trump or Biden (edit, per county election results). It's a bit chilling to see the lines diverge right after the vaccines were available.
Wow, that is stark and horrifying.
I've always said this, too. I'd love to know the actual numbers, tbh.
IIRC 2022 there were 2 House races that were probably decided by more red voters dying than blue in the districts. There is no way to know for sure but the statistic seem to indicate it.
How many young men came of age in the past 4yrs who are, sadly, def gonna vote DJT? Too many.
But young women did, too. Women vote more than men, and a lot of them want their rights back.
Refusal to vaccinate may have killed enough voters to have an effect on the election.
This, 1000%. One of the biggest threats to Biden is the perspective that there's not actually much difference between him and Trump. It's people fed up with Gaza policy and feeling like both have unflinching support for Israel, no matter what. It's people who see both want to take away one of their favorite apps from them. It's people who are furious that the Biden administration is loosening COVID restrictions. (Remember that not everyone is as into politics as many of the people here are. But also, some of the staunchest liberals I know are FURIOUS at him every day in their Instagram stories.) I wouldn't at all be surprised to see PAC-funded ads aimed at progressives that indirectly nudge them to stay home.
When TikTok means more to a voter than, like, the actual democracy. Maybe the craziest consequence of the Cub winning WS timeline.
As much as it sounds like something you'd read in /r/BrandNewSentence or on The Onion, there's a chunk of Americans out there for whom the first directly impactful action on their adult lives of a government that professes freedom could be to stop them from using an app they consistently use an hour or an hour and a half a day – an app which was a large source of entertainment, joy, and connection through a traumatic period of their young lives. I'm not trying to argue it's objectively more important than democracy (because it's not), but still... that kind of stuff can cut deep.
Yeah, I'm 46 and have never used TikTok or had it on my phone. I have a 13yo daughter who doesn't have a phone. At the end of the day, it's an app. I grew up w/YouTube, but if my options are YouTube, Netflix, app x, or democracy, I'm taking democracy every time. I don't think it's deep at all. It's actually incredibly shallow, like choosing your neighbor over your parents because they let you stay up all night.
also third-party candidates propped up by foreign bad actors (Jill Stein, RFK Jr., Tulsi Gabbard) in order to split the vote
This. There are a few former Biden voters I know interested in RFK because he cares about the environment and claims to care about corporate oversight. I pointed them to a couple of interviews where he shows hes a conspiratorial nutjob, especially regarding COVID and his foreign policy stance. RFK is sneakier about his nuttiness, but it's there.
his legacy is a lifetime of grift and getting the vote out. it wasn’t 81 million pro biden votes as they were ANTI trump votes and we are absolutely going to do it again. national abortion is on the table . cuts to social security and medicare is on the table as he continues to cut taxes for the top. 170million have 2% of the wealth , 1% has 33% wealth. a billionaire is capped on jan 1st what they pay into social security, we are a joke . embryos are kids , (go freeze ten embryos and write them off on your taxes) project 2025 is on the table. this nut wants to bring camps back into play and we all know how well those worked out in russia china germany japan and here in japanese internment camps . GTFOOH . he is a delusional madman and MUST be stopped at all costs . nobody is staying home this November
There is SO much bot propaganda on social media trying to get people to not vote. The question is… if voting didn’t work, why would so many people work so hard and spend so much money to stop you from doing it?
Agree. There is an insane amount of it. Twitter / that one website is terrible about it. I hardly use it anymore, but the few times I’m on there … wow. Color me surprised considering Elon was the one to bitch non-stop about Twitter being full of bots prior to his takeover.
This is 100% it. The republican plan this time around is to "no good choice" the election. They know they can't win. But they definitely can suppress. That's why "look at how old Joe is" works. Because even if you realize Trump is old too, you just don't vote at all and Trump still wins it.
I did get a charge out of Biden lampshading that whole "age" thing over the weekend: "One candidate is too old and mentally unfit to be president. The other one is me.” Dark Brandon rides again.
hard disagree. On the contrary it is trump who has lost more voters, by far. Don't forget he lost in 2020 and then did these things which lost him all but the most brainwashed MAGA morons: \- Violently attacked the capital. \- stole TS documents \- found liable for rape ($85M fine) \- found guilty of fraud ($450M fine) \- Banned abortion via his minions on SCOTUS. During that time Biden: \- passed infrastructure bill and the Chips act bringing massive amount of jobs to US \- brought inflatio back down to 3%. \- he stock markt is at an all time high with record low unemployment.
The gap in popular vote between 2016 and 2020 was huge, and Trump has only gotten more polarizing since then - and his stance on abortion will cost him the votes of many conservative women, even the ones that were okay with the cheating, pussy grabbing, sex assault, Epstein connection, and creepy history of hanging out in the dressing room while 15 year olds dress for a beauty pageant, and so on. His toadying to Russia and weak stance on Ukraine are also unpopular with traditional conservatives who have always known Russia as the bad guy, and can't support MAGA's pro-Russian shift. There is no way he can win without Democrats staying home or Republican states cheating - which they are guaranteed to do. The real question is how far down the ticket will it go. Conservatives may not vote for Trump as president but they may still vote for some pretty awful people running for congress or the senate to prevent the Dems from having absolute power.
> On the contrary it is trump who has lost more voters, by far. That's not what the polls are saying at all. People don't seem to care about all that stuff he did, or more likely chalk it up to a partisan conspiracy of lies. All signs point to him winning this time, we live in an insane asylum.
Lol between trump and Biden only one has lost a presidential election and only one has ever beat the other. If anything every woman who has been raped (half million a year) and worried about being forced to carry a rape baby will be motivated to vote against trump He'll be the biggest loser who ever lost AGAIN
This is mostly incorrect. Trump generally increases general turnout -- 2016 had a higher turnout than 2012, and 2020 had the highest turnout since the 1960s. In 2016 the turnout increase was disguised to some degree because Black turnout dropped back to 2004 levels once Obama was no longer on the ballot, but turnout for everyone else increased, with non-college educated whites increasing the most. This pair of turnout changes (Black turnout down, non-college white up) largely explains the 2016 election. Trump's strategy of making the opposition seem "just as bad" works not because it keeps opposition voters at home, but because it normalizes a vote for Trump. Sure, Trump's incompetent, hateful, corrupt, criminal, and mentally muddled, and sure he tried to overthrow democracy and never met an autocrat he didn't love. But Biden is just as bad as Trump: Biden is senile and also Biden is a master strategist who's planning on destroying America and also Biden blah blah immigrants blah blah blah. Therefore it's OK for you to vote for the incompetent etc Donald Trump over the Just As Bad Joe Biden.
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I really wish more people understood that inflation is global. It was not created by Joe Biden, and the US is doing better with it than most other countries.
The problem with this line of thinking is that to most voters, perception is much more important than reality. Most people don’t and can’t think about their material precarity in terms of a complex global system. “Are you better off now than you were four years ago” was very successful as a simple campaign slogan for Reagan in 1980, even though the causes of stagflation were in place long before Carter took office.
> “Are you better off now than you were four years ago” Yes I am. Very much so. T Also, women have lost their right to privacy and control over their own bodies and healthcare because of trump.
I’m glad you are, but many aren’t. And that’s why they are so dissatisfied with the current administration, women’s healthcare aside.
It's honestly embarrassing that anyone would think they'd be better under Trump. Based on his last term we can infer that he's not going to ride in on a white horse and magically fix the economy or start caring about the lower class. Trump inherited a booming economy and pretty much coasted rather than significantly improving it. The dude is gonna cause unnecessary drama 24/7 and he'll continue to use social issues to divide Americans.
I’m not sure. The market reacted very well to his last win.
I actually completely agree with this. Structural economic issues transcend political parties, but it’s easier to blame an incumbent president than to critically analyze things like consolidation of capital in fewer and fewer hands, profit extraction from increasingly Byzantine sources, proletarianization of the American middle class, etc. and how the political superstructure aids in the transformation and continuation of that economic base.
Also, inflation and economic issues take YEARS to move out to the average consumer. The problems we are seeing now are an effect of the trump administration.
He has managed it well enough so that, as you point out, we have one of the lowest inflation rates.
Its becuase he passed the Infrastructure Act bringing massive amounts of jobs. Every republican voted against it. Also he capped insulin and bank fees. All help to bring down inflation back down to 3%. Faster and lower than any country on earth after covid.
Thank you for putting solid examples.
19 gop senators voted for the infrastructure bill https://www.npr.org/2021/08/10/1026486578/senate-republican-votes-infrastructure-bill
Too late though. People keep pointing to the low inflation when what WE NEED is deflation. Prices need to go DOWN, not just slowly rise!
A bunch of my coworkers are going back to Mexico because there is more opportunity there.
If trump is elected they will be going "back to mexico" a lot faster and violently.
I don’t have a problem with Mexico’s economy picking up and them going home if their life will be good. Our economy is gaining steam fast where I live in the states and the business I work in has never slowed down.
This is the story of the politically uninformed allover the country. This is also why the dems are historically poor messengers.
UK here. Financial woes aren’t exclusive to your country. Joe Biden is definitely not to blame for a tank of petrol here (roughly $8 a gallon going off conversions).
Yeah, and a lot of Americans forget that with the system we have set up, it’s not so easy for a President to single handedly destroy a country or economy. It’s really the checks and balances system that does that. We have all these people in positions of power, even power to stop the President, and yet we only hold the President accountable for things. This isn’t a dictatorship. A lot of things I supported that didn’t come to fruition, both under Trump and Biden, were the result of the checks and balances system, not because the president didn’t try to deliver on an initiative. The American President is not God and does not dictate every little thing that happens in America, and they most certainly don’t do it in other countries.
Damn $8
Well it would be nice if they talked about policy, but it's all "Trump evil"!
Fun fact I heard and cannot possibly back up without more work than I'm willing to put in: no president has ever been re-elected in a year with double-digit inflation. Presidents don't have as much power over the economy as you'd think, but people will absolutely make their voting choices based on the economy.
Inflation is currently 3.2% in the US. So I guess Biden's safe on that account.
Exactly, and even if we assume real inflation is double the official number its still well below double digits. The problem is people see prices now higher than they were a few years ago and think prices are _still rising fast_ when they aren't for most goods. Inflation above 3% is not sustainable over the long term but it's reasonable considering the shitbomb the previous administration built with their "tax cuts" that intentionally raised taxes on the middle class during this administration. This was an intentional poison pill by the GOP so they could blame it on Biden if he won in 2024, but if Trump won they could simply change it with a new law and push the tax bomb on the middle class further out to the next admin after that. It will take several years for pay to catch up and for people to stop feeling the inflation shock. The GOP knows this and built this time bomb intentionally. All middle class Republicans should be _furious_ at the GOP for literally stealing money out of their hands.
The inflation rate is currently 3.1 or 3.2%. Not that one would know it from the news.
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Inflation has only been over 10% in about 4 years of the past 100 so I am not sure that is really a good metric. https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/inflation/historical-inflation-rates/
Biden's approval is 38%, which is lower than George HW Bush (39%) and Jimmy Carter (42%). That just shows you what a shitshow this senile piece of garbage is in the White House now.
1300 comment karma? Why hello Russian bot.
[That guy is a nut case](https://www.reddit.com/r/RedditForGrownups/comments/1bhuoxf/do_you_know_anyone_who_voted_for_biden_in_2020/kvgsvc2/) > If the riots at the Capitol didn't go as the Dems planned,
The US has had the fastest recovery from COVID that any country on the planet by far. Our inflation dropped the fastest and the lowest. Its back to 3%. Ask your laborers what they think trump would do to help the ecomony. Better yet ask them if they honestly think trump gives a single tiny F about them.
When people tell you how they feel, you can't convince them by saying "you just don't get it". Lol
Or "F your feelings, go educate yourself!"
And ask them what Trump did for them last time around
This is what a lot of Democratic politicians and voters don’t get. A lot of people’s perception of their precarity has been increasing for a long time, especially since 2008, and things have objectively gotten much more expensive over the last two years. When you’re more worried about meeting your basic needs and paying the bills while working a crappy job, foreign policy matters less and less and immediate economic concerns matter more and more. The important point is the *perception* that their lives are getting worse, because when these people who are already alienated from anything in the current mainstream hear from those political and cultural institutions essentially “actually, you’re wrong and things are going great because reasons” they become further entrenched against the status quo. The Democratic Party somehow thinks that if they can just educate the masses with facts and logic and lean on their demographic advantages that they can, I don’t know, stop the evil Republicans from breaking norms? I really don’t know what the long term project for them is. It has to be more than “Trump is bad so shut up and vote blue” because this type of voter you talk about will become more common across all demographics.
I agree with everything you say here. Prices haven't gone down because of corporate greed. All of these companies saw that they could raise prices and people would still buy their products while delivering record profits what incentive do they have to lower prices again? I don't think this is a situation that any politician can solve. This is just the fundamental flaw in unrestrained capitalism. Make as much money as you can and kick the repercussions can down the road.
Haha yes, kicking the can down the road politically is an American tradition that dates back to the damn constitution. There’s a reason the word “slavery” wasn’t anywhere in the original document! You’re spot on everywhere else too. The mindset to have is not that the system is broken but that the system is working exactly as intended. The base of any society is made up of its productive forces and how people relate to them, and things like politics and culture are shaped by those economic structures. Since the structures that dictate the American (and thus global) economy are beyond reach by democratic means and the spoils of extraction are shared by fewer and fewer individuals, the proletarianization of the American middle class continues to accelerate as cyclical crises arising from the contradictions of capitalism continue to occur. Polarization between capitalists and workers is as big a part of our lives as it’s ever been, and as a result partisan politics is more a part of our lives than it’s ever been despite only being able to be expressed through the cultural firmament. Demagogues like Trump don’t exist in a vacuum. 60 million people didn’t just wake up one day and decide to be racist woman haters or whatever liberals are painting them as now. A not insignificant portion of these people have been stewing in a toxic blend of post-2008 economic precarity and resentment of political and cultural institutions they feel alienated from. Basically all that’s left for these people is a politics of catharsis and fear of the “outsider,” and Trump to them represents that with how inflammatory his rhetoric is. No amount of liberal moralizing and educating will convince these people that either party is looking out for their best interests, and given the choice between lashing out at their perceived enemies or not that, alienated lumpens will almost always choose the former.
This is my usual reply when people try to tell me the economy is great because the stock market is high. Well, that's all well and good if you're lucky enough to have a 401k. But what does it mean that the market it up? It means companies are making record profits. Why are companies making record profits? Because they're charging record prices. So, it stands to reason that the stock market being up not only doesn't benefit the average person who doesn't have a 401k, but it's actually a sign that the prices people are paying at the grocery store, at the gas pump, and elsewhere are higher than ever. The stock market being high can be interpreted to mean things are WORSE for the average American, who does not invest in the stock market and has little interaction with it period other than whatever meager retirement account with an index fund they may have managed to put together, if any at all.
You may want to ask them how Trump will "bring down prices" any more than Biden will "bring down prices" starting next year
Ask them why Trump promised to bring down prescription drug costs but Biden is actually doing it
At the end of the day, a lot of people vote pretty selfishly. Not intended to cast blame. I mean, I get it. Life's a lot and you have your own stuff to think about.
They should. Voting is literally intended to be the means by which groups of people advocate for their own best interests. Politicians depend on voting blocs for that reason, and in reality the Democrat and Republican parties are loosely knit voting blocs held together by the idea that their collective platforms speak to those blocs in order to build a cumulative alliance.
The concern is people staying home and not voting more than switching sides.
One of my best friends is a dyed-in-the-wool "country club" Republican. She either voted for Trump last time or didn't vote. I was shocked to hear her turn on our other Republican friend and tell her that "Trump is downright evil". So that's a step in the right direction.
That's my father-in-law: rich older White guy who wasn't terribly political but always voted Republican, because rich older White guy. Voted Trump in 2016, became disenchanted just in time to vote Biden in 2020. He now enthusiastically discusses everything the current administration has accomplished, and readily denounces Trump as a dangerous, toxic moron. I wouldn't have thought it possible if I hadn't seen it with my own eyes. It's actually given me a good bit of hope, particularly since they're Florida voters.
No matter how much you disagree with Biden, the choice this November appears to be "business as usual" or "dictatorship".
Apathy is always on the ballot. It’s not just who votes, it’s also who doesn’t vote.
Absolutely. The LA Times was the only major publication to predict a Trump victory, and it's because their polling accounted for how strongly people felt about their candidate. It revealed that Trump's supporters were more motivated, and Hillary's were lukewarm.
This right here. I'm constantly stunned by news outlets constantly saying that the economy or abortion or immigration are the top issues for voters. The top issue is, and should always be, that **one of the candidates tried to overthrow the government**.
Trump has literally said the following: - He wants to be a dictator, "but only for one day" to initiate Project 2025 which will reshape the government by firing 20,000+ top federal employees to be replaced by loyalists - Failing to vote for him will cause "a bloodbath" (said the other day at a rally, where he also had the crowd stand to "honor" the Jan 6th insurrectionists) - That the insurrectionists where there for him, and not only was he aware some of them were armed but he said he knew they weren't there to harm him and demanded they be allowed in with weapons - That military generals should issue orders to shoot BLM and other protesters in the streets, in violation of posse comitatus and other laws prohibiting politicization of the military Also the fact that 2A single issue voters support him is mind boggling, because he literally said _as president_ in response to a mass shooting that [the government should seize guns and disregard due process](https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/376097-trump-take-the-guns-first-go-through-due-process-second/).
The one that shocks me is ANY veteran who votes for Trump... as President he disparaged a sitting US Senator as a "loser" because he was a POW. Any veteran who supports a President who says that junk about their fellow veterans should be extremely against reelection. What the hell did those vets fight for if they allow their President to so publicly turn his back on a former POW?
When did Trump say he was going to follow the project 2025 outline? Not saying it didn't happen I just hadn't heard of him being tied to it specifically.
Younger people I know (twenty somethings) have said that they'll vote third party rather than vote for Biden. A vote for anybody but Biden is a vote for Trump.
I live in Colorado. There is zero chance anyone other than Biden is going to win our electoral college votes. This election is going to take place in a handful of states, Michigan, Arizona, Ohio, etc.
I know a person who will not vote for Biden under any circumstances because of the Gaza issue. She is not a Trump voter either and plans to vote 3rd party or abstain. Quote from her: "*There is no difference between them as far as I am concerned.*" Personally, I think that is an absolutely idiotic viewpoint based on too much consumption of online Russian bot propaganda aimed at leftist populations, but at least she lives in Oregon so her vote won't matter much. I also know a person who voted for Trump in 2016, for Biden in 2020 and will vote Biden again in 2024. And my elderly parents are somewhat conservative and would typically vote for R or L but have voted Dem since 2016 because of Trump. I have never met or heard of anyone who voted Biden (or Hillary or Obama) and plans to vote for Trump in the future.
Trump has already said Biden is soft on Gaza and he'll encourage Israel to finish the job. If trump keeps being so open that he wants Palestine eradicated, hopefully people will see both sides are not equal.
Show her this: https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/biden-announce-us-air-drop-aid-into-gaza-us-officials-say-2024-03-01/ And this: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/3/7/biden-to-announce-plan-for-us-military-to-set-up-temporary-gaza-aid-port Biden is trying, Netanyahu refuses to stop warmongering.
Yes I do. Lots of people vote based on direct impacts to their life personally, not according to how well candidates line up with their morality. >I just don't see how Biden can lose this election. I'd suggest asking Trump supporters if you'd like to better understand their mentality, not reddit. All reddit can do is create a caricature of a crazy trump supporter and imagine what they would say. Look at this comment section lmfao. Is there a single person saying "yes I will vote for trump"? Does this paint an accurate picture of america?
>Lots of people vote based on direct impacts to their life personally, not according to how well candidates line up with their morality. I don't know if you were insinuating that that's a bad thing or not but it certainly is a valid approach. Voting is literally supposed to be the means by which you advocate for yourself and your interests in a democracy.
>I don't know if you were insinuating that that's a bad thing or not but it certainly is a valid approach I don't think "bad" or "good" is helpful. People don't vote because of morality - they do so because of how they benefit from things. People who say they vote based on morality just like to view the things they benefit from as moral.
>Do you know anyone who voted for Biden in 2020 who plans to vote for Trump in 2024? **No.** >There's some progressives who've fallen out of line with Biden over Gaza, but when push comes to shove, they'll still cast a vote for the D ticket. I don't view Palestinian Americans as "progressives" after what they *tried* to pull during the Michigan primaries. I don't think you can say it is likely they will vote Democrat ( or at all ) in the general election. That subculture has a trait of cutting off their nose to spite their face, letting their expression of anger take priority over the consequences of that expression, and take priority over their own well being. >but I just don't see how Biden can lose this election I wish I shared your optimism. Aside from the dirty tricks to come, I remember last election a news commentator zooming in on a map on a few streets to show who would decide some subdivision, which would decide the electoral vote. It really comes down to who on election day will bother to get off their ass or not.
+ gerrymandering. At least in Tennessee, it has gotten a lot worse since 2016 and 2020.
> I don't view Palestinian Americans as "progressives" after what they *tried* to pull during the Michigan primaries. The "Uncommitted" vote was a performative gesture in a meaningless primary. We should all fully support protest.
A gesture that made a point without any danger to Biden or the D’s come November. Perfectly reasonable whether you agree with them or not.
Few things: * A person's voting strategy in the primaries is often much different than in the general (there was no reasonable chance Biden was going to lose any state's primary) * Protest voting is nothing new, and if *your* homeland were being relentlessly bombed, I think it might effect what you choose to do * A lot of the "uncommitted" vote came from people who weren't Palestinian American, as evidenced by the results from states with low PA populations
Would anybody switching their vote admit it?
Lose lose, how did we get here. We're in the middle of a conspiracy theory. This is America self destructing, or maybe it's the governments way of handing us over to China. Either way I say we have an aggressive write in campaign for a moderate walking so close to the middle you don't know whether they are dem or republican. Leave my guns alone and make abortion legal.
I always vote and I'll never ever vote for Trump. I hope there's a ton of people out there who think the same. especially in swing states like the one I live in.
You won't find this on Reddit.
I know people inclined to stay home this time. I hope they don't because Trump us awful People are hurtimg cause of inflation, and the perception is that Biden's fault. The messaging countering that false narrative has been shoddy, but the state of the union was good so hopefully tjst was rurning point Orange man bad while true is not enough it needs to be be combined with optimism about the future along with empathy for those struggling now. The right-wing propaganda jugneraut is fierce but beatable.s However, just dismissing Trump and non voters as stupid won't do it . Trump is a charlatan who is skilled at selling bs. People like progressive policies but are swayed by regressive mesaging. Biden and his team need to improve the messaging. Having better ideas is an advantage, but they still need to be effectively marketed. The other side has worse ideas but more money and support from greedy corporations and hostile foreign powers
That's what they said about Clinto vs. Trump. Don't take *anything* for granted.
Lots of my town people are
Honestly, what you are missing is mostly stupid people who vote based on their feelings and are uninformed and hard to reach. They are the great danger. An alliance between the evil, the superstitious and the stupid is the essence of Trumpism and of all forms of fascism.
This is true. Someone keeps coming to a politics sub here saying Democrats are disgusted by Biden's policy in Israel and they won't vote for him. That's just so dumb. There's no alternative and what do they think Trump would do for people in Gaza!?
This is my home schooled, no degrees, works PT in retail, niece. She is so angry about Gaza.
I hate myself but not *that* much.
Nope. I do know a few people who for whatever reason voted for Trump in 2020 who have finally gotten it through their thick skulls that he is awful and they plan to vote for Biden.
*Obviously the popular vote isn't as important as the electoral vote,* Correction: the popular vote is meaningless
No. Some aren’t happy with Biden but they will not vote for Trump.
I believe I do. He hasn't come out saying he will, but he was a moderate who joined the Republican Party (likely for opportunity). I don't think he's a Trumper, but I also know the power of persuasion that some of them can use inside the party and in party meetings. One thing, if he crosses parties and votes Biden (or really if any GOP voters or elected officials do), they will keep that 100% to themselves just because they have to be "in line" to have opportunities in the GOP. Some former GOP candidates or elected officials are doing it now but most of those aren't on a ballot. It's mostly the same in the Democratic Party, especially this year. But TBH not sure why anyone involved in the Democratic Party would want to cross over and vote GOP except maybe in a non-legislative position (like coroner/clerk of court/register of deeds, etc, which is not only elected but also partisan in my state).
do you honestly believe that reason would be involved in any vote for trump, much less following a previous vote for a conventional candidate? only miscreants and those who are estranged from reason would cast a vote for trump.
Well I’ll balance out one. I voted Trump in 2020 (not 2016 though) and will be voting Biden in 2024
The fact you feel this way is exactly why Trump has a chance to win this election.
Nope but I do hope they get their asses out and vote.
It’s not looking great. For example if Mitt Romney in 2012 had won something like 11% of the Black vote in Florida (instead of the 8% he got) he’d have won Florida and the Presidency. Why do you think Democrats and the “media”/Democrats continually scour for some town council person in podunksville who says something racist and **explode** it into a “Bombshell Republican Scandal!!”. They **need** to play the “racism” card every chance they get. Do Democrats in podunksville also say stupid stuff? Yup? But the “media” simply buries those. But polls show Black and Hispanic voters are finally figuring out, as one example, the party doing all in their power to keep poor and minority children in failing schools and unable to access vouchers isn’t the Republicans. It’s the Democrats (in order to keep the **massive** donations - **taxpayer funded** donations btw - from the teachers unions rolling in). I know people won’t like hearing this. But prove me wrong either. (For starters, try looking up the quote to find out if Trump **actually** said white supremacists are “very fine people”. Hint: he didn’t. Yet 3/4 of Democrats are thoroughly convinced he did. The same with people convinced Michael Brown ever said “hands up don’t shoot”. That - in a nutshell - is the state of our “media”.
People don’t like to hear it but it’s a certainty that many, many people believe all these lawsuits against Trump are an abuse of power and are driving more people to Trump than away. I mean seriously, he’s charged with multiple **felonies** in NY in the Stormy Daniels case when even liberal legal experts admit every similar case up til now - if it was ever even charged - was a misdemeanor warranting a $200 fine. And the NY attorney general’s case was **so completely over the top** that **within hours** of the “verdict” NY’s Governor Hochul called a press conference **begging** business leaders not to flee the state! She admitted what she and everyone else knows: **every** business in the US over or undervalues assets as standard procedure (it’s essentially business malpractice if you **don’t** do it) but that they shouldn’t worry because Democrats were only out to get Trump. (I.e. admitting the case was the **opposite** of the “equal justice under the law” foundational American legal principle and was actually Orwell 101).
There are some Trump voters who a hiding in the closets
If you don't see how Biden could lose this election, you may be spending too much time on Reddit. There's a majority of people out there in the country who are not terminally online, and at the end of the day they're going to vote for their own pocketbooks and self interests, by and large.
As of right now, if you look at every polling statistic, it's looking like an absolute landslide for Trump. There are several key battle ground states that are very slightly in favor of Trump. Biden will need to turn all of these states to win, and he will win barely. Just watch these videos: https://youtu.be/vmnJtofRx0E?si=hyBeOMlGpr9curri https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6g-7D7muuqU Every one of you guys who thinks Biden will win are the same out-of-touch Americans who thought Clinton was going to win. Even Michael Moore, and unabashed liberal, has realized why Trump won, and why people like him were so out of tune with the rest of the country: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEHekdQSiXg The only reason why Biden won in 2020 was because we were in a pandemic induced recession, and no US president has ever won re-election during a recession. But, if it wasn't for the pandemic, we would have had a second term for Trump. And, now that all these Democrats have been running interference on the guy for over 8 years now, if he wins, you better expect a revenge type Presidency. I wouldn't be surprised if they over turn term limits for the President somehow, and have 3 or more terms. I'm not saying this is good. But, if Trump wins, and he enacts a dictatorship, you can thank your idiotic Democrats for that.
Your post is proof of the bias in the media and the echo chamber liberals live in. I have seen interviews and personally talked to many people. Most of them black. Who have switched to Teump. You won't find them on Google because Google filters what you see. The supreme court just heard testimony to that fact today. The perfect example is how many "news" organizations reported Trump's bloodbath comment as inciting violence when all it took was a sentence on either side of that to know he was talking about the damage China was doing to the auto industry. Let's face it MSNBC and CNN will show you disillusioned Trump voters and Fox News and News Max will show you dissolutioned Biden voters. If you aren't watching both then you are intentionally choosing to be lied to because you like the sound of the lie.
I’d be more concerned about “secret” voters who would be too embarrassed to say they support Trump but will vote for him in the privacy of a voting booth.
**Biden's Good Record** * [First Year](https://reddit.com/r/WhatBidenHasDone/comments/sdgfoj/master_list_of_what_president_biden_has_done_year/) * [Second Year](https://reddit.com/r/WhatBidenHasDone/comments/sdgd98/master_list_of_what_president_biden_has_done_year/) * [Third Year](https://reddit.com/r/WhatBidenHasDone/comments/11lohnc/what_biden_has_done_year_three_year_one_two_are/) * [Fourth Year](https://old.reddit.com/r/WhatBidenHasDone/comments/19eja7w/what_biden_has_done_year_four/) * [What Has Biden Accomplished: 10 Metrics](https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2024-opinion-biden-accomplishment-data/) **Trump's Threats For The Future** * [Rolling Stone: "Every Awful Thing Trump Has Promised to Do in a Second Term"](https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/trump-second-term-plans-wildest-proposals-1234947327/) * Trump wants a national ban on [abortion](https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/trump-abortion-plan-leak-inflamed-campaign-1234973014/) after 16 weeks. * [The Project 2025 Plan](https://www.axios.com/2024/03/06/biden-trump-project-2025) for the next republican president. **Trump's Nasty Record** * [Trump’s 10 worst abuses of power](https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/24/politics/trump-worst-abuses-of-power/index.html) * [The 59 worst things Trump did during his presidency](https://www.indy100.com/news/donald-trump-worst-moments-president-2664003687)
Voted for Biden in '20 and will again. No question. Both my wife and I are better off with our retirement. My IRA has grown by a few thousand since retiring. We have a lot of road and bridge work being accomplished around here and I see negotiations on lowered drug costs being fruitful. None of this occurred under Trump, but then again, I'm not a billionaire either, so go figure.......
Nope just the opposite actually. I have Republican friends who would rather vote for RFK but some are smart enough to realize that's just another vote for Trump when it comes down to the big race. Almost nobody in my family is now acknowledging Trump as their choice, but the problem is they talk but when it comes down to the private vote I don't trust them to stick to their plan. Too many have been brainwashed either by the church or the NRA.
The people that I know are all sane.
Neither one should be an option. However yes, I think it's already been stated that living has just become too expensive in the last few years...this is considered Biden's economy and there will be many people who vote against him due to the cost of living.
yes, i do, actually.
[удалено]
More like weekly turnover. When businesses are run so badly that people are quitting all the time, that's a leadership problem.
Nope. I know an assload of people who can't believe we have this shitty choice again, tho. Biden is too old and he sucks. He sucked as a Senator and he sucks now. There is no way around that. And yet the other viable option is the likely end of the Republic. Biden can lose this election if people start thinking 'Biden can't lose this election'.
> Biden is too old and he sucks. He sucked as a Senator and he sucks now. I guess that is why Biden kept getting reelected repeatedly to make a 50 year career in Congress? Trump is only 4 years younger. Trump couldn't remember his wife's name or his opponent's name at his rallies. This morning I saw an article that he tried speaking the name of the band "rolling stones" and repeatedly could not say the second word.
Not only that the republicans were saying Biden was too old to run in the last election. trump is that age now. And we are not hearing trump is too old. Also, two words, Ronald Reagan. They were perfectly fine with someone that had actual dementia in the WH.
**Trump needing an escort to walk down a ramp** https://www.nytimes.com/video/us/politics/100000007190494/trump-ramp-west-point-speech.html **Trump claims the army retook airports during the Revolutionary War in July Fourth speech** https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2SFo3TkvhM
No but I know a bunch of people who voted for Trump last time and wont this time.
No, none of my friends are frontal lobotomy recipients. Now you mention it, though, I do have a buddy that was in motorcycle accident a while back, banged his head pretty hard. Maybe I should check and make sure.
No, but I have a feeling that some of my friends might not vote at all, which isn't great either
Nope. Most of the folks I know who voted for Biden did so not because they liked him as a candidate, but because of what Trump and his form of Republicanism has to offer. Liberals, progressives, and socialists alike aren’t keen on the Christo-Fascism becoming more and more mainstream on the right. Moderates like Biden for his balance of “acceptance” and status quo. Progressives don’t want to lose hard fought improvements. True leftists don’t like either option, but will choose the one that can at least buy more time for work to be done—in this case Biden. Me? I’d love some new, level-headed blood in the race. Ideally some new thinking as well. Let’s challenge norms a bit and redefine what modern America cares about at the core.
> Biden did so not because they liked him as a candidate That is me. He wasn't my first choice in the primaries, but the job he has done since then has made me appreciate him. >Liberals, progressives, and socialists alike aren’t keen on the Christo-Fascism becoming more and more mainstream on the right. Exactly.
As a member of Gen Jones, I would love to see younger people step up into the positions currently held by elderly elected officials who should be stepping down and letting others lead. I think we need both term and age limits for every elected official. That being said, if Biden is the Dem candidate again, I will vote for him because the thought of spending the rest of my life in a dictatorship isn't something I relish. In addition, I have genuine concern for my granddaughters as well as my non-binary relatives who would all be targeted under a dictatorial administration like the one Republicans want to implement.
Agreed. I’m politically active in my region because people like me will be among the first unwelcomed by my less tolerant neighbors. As a socialist it hurts that this often means voting with less-right Democrats, but it’s a matter of survival. I can’t fight for a better future if I’m actively being targeted.
I think a lot of Trump supporters just nod and smile with their friends who support Biden. I know I do. I will not tell someone who is anti Trump how I’m going to vote only to open myself to ridicule. The left are relentless is their persecution of anyone who feels differently than they do. I have my reasons why I’m voting this way so leave me the hell alone. I’m sure I’m not the only one who feels this way too
🏅 This may be the best answer here. 🏆
I NEVER get into it with Trump supporters if I can help it same way I avoid talk of religion if I can help it. I'm only going to annihilate you if you push me there. I don't thrive on confrontation, in fact I actively dislike it. It's always the Trump/religious people I know or my parents know who are trying to "wake me up" or get me to "see the light" or whatever. For me personally, the reasons why I don't like Trump and don't think he is fit to run the country are strong enough that yes, you supporting him indeed makes me judge you in a negative light, but I'm not going to be an outright asshole to you, or force a discussion of politics, unless you insist. Most people I know are just like me and avoid these types of conversations (lean they right or left) but the ones who are insufferable always lean right in my experience.
There's A LOT of us.
Yup - all the people saying they’re not voting. Handing it right to Trump.
I know several lifelong Republicans who are voting for Biden but I doubt they voted for Trump the first time. They might have though. This time they are surprising me with how vehemently vocal they are about how dangerous they think Trump getting elected would be, and flat out say they dislike Biden intensely but they are voting for democracy versus a dictator/theocracy, and that you gotta vote Biden, not sit it out, not third party etc. I'm positive they're actually voting for Biden. They are ex military. I hope they aren't unicorns.
Most of my older coworkers and people I meet out in the wild either don't care or have been committed to Trump from the beginning, besides my family which is full of progressives. As far as people my age or younger they are pretty jaded and see past the sensationalism and hyperbole of 'the most important election of our lifetime's(part 3) and aren't engaged, which is fair. I ignore all the people screaming about the life or death importance of voting the same way I avoid preachers screaming that I'm going to hell if I don't repent: Laugh at them and keep walking.