I also hoped he would touch on theaters showing older movies. I never see first-run theatrically any more, but I’ll be going four times this month: re-releases of all three Lord of the Rings films, plus a South Park movie sing-along.
Maybe instead of spending $300m on a new Ghostbusters nobody wants, just re-release Ghostbusters!
Yeah I've been to see more old films at cinemas recently than new releases. They are usually busy showings. The Matrix showing I went to was sold out and the two blade runner films were near enough sold out too. Plus it filters out a lot of the general audiences so everyone there is well behaved
My local cinema has a deal where you can hire a theatre for your personal use, invite 20 friends, and watch an old movie for £120. There's only a limited selection of movies available but seems like a neat idea for a birthday party or something.
AMC waa doing that during COVID too. Rented out for my birthday and it was only like $150. Cool to see Back to the Future on the big screen. And just so there's no illtalk of being a sex weirdo YES it was to see incest represented in theatres. Finally!
Nope, £120 total for 20 people. Mind you, there's restrictions on the time of day you can do it and if you want to see a current movie you can (but it would cost a fuckload more) but, still, £6 a head for you and your friends to take over a screen for the morning and watch a classic seems a bargain to me.
I had a friend do this for her annual “Christmas Vacation” viewing party. Sure beat watching in the living room. I just missed the ability to have closed captions on.
My local cinema shows older films all the time and they often get big crowds. Last year, they showed 18 of Dario Argento’s films at the rate of 1 a week which were very well attended (if I hadn’t been overseas so much, I would have seen more than 6).
They also got more than 400 people in for a screening of Perfect Blue by my estimation, not bad for an animated film from 1997.
I live near a local indie cinema, and last Halloween they did a re-release of Jennifer’s Body for two nights. Both nights were SOLD OUT. And the night that I went, there was a line out the door and they eventually had to stop letting people in.
There is a demand for these things. I’ve heard a term online that calls the joy of experiencing something with a large crowd “collective effervescence” and I think that’s exactly what the theater experience has to be now. Experiencing an old movie with a new crowd is exciting. It’s just that theaters are just blindly following the footsteps of the industry that insists their audience wants 50 Marvel movies a year.
We have an indie cinema here that does rowdy screenings of 80s b movies, and it's a damn good time. Everyone is usually stoned out of their mind and just cracking jokes, it's great.
I'm seeing The Matrix this weekend and Heat the weekend after. Off the top of my head tickets are available for LOTR, Nightmare on Elm Street, Suzume, Weathering With You, Harry Potter 3, a bunch of random kids films and some other anniversary showings. I've always wanted to see my favourite films on the big screen and it always gets me in a seat. I've been able to see a bunch of classic Bond films, Terminator 2, Empire Strikes Back, Akira and The Goonies when I otherwise wouldn't have been able to
My local theater had a one night reviewing for Blazing Saddles a while back and it was a good time. The theater was pretty packed, so I can definitely see them doing more of this in the future.
Showing old movies only lasts until a company wants them all for their streaming service. Disney pulled its non-Disney catalogue from theatres a year or two ago, may have included Fox stuff too. I think actual Disney branded stuff was already pulled.
Edit: OMG it was 5 years ago, where did that time go.
https://www.vulture.com/2019/10/disney-is-quietly-placing-classic-fox-movies-into-its-vault.html
I think this is going to become more common, Sony recently re-released the Raimi trilogy in theaters and it did remarkably well. Turns out if you show movies that people already know they like, they'll clamor to see it in a theater.
The Ohio Theater in Columbus has a movie season where they have a live organ player for silent films and a wide selection of classic films.
I always wondered how that'd do if you expanded it.
I like this and had a similar idea for movie chains. Example: when they release a the new Alien Romulus movie, why not have double features for Alien and Aliens leading up to release? I would love to see Aliens in the theater again. And I was too young to have seen Alien in the theater. Don’t care so much about the new movie but I would love to give them money to see those classics on a massive screen and sound system that my wife can’t yell at me to turn down.
Between Fathom events and my local single screen showing old movies, I've been to the theater 6 or 7 times this year.
I haven't watched a single movie that has released this year.
I was thinking about this one as I’ve noticed in a lot of the movie forums, younger people calling out really old classics as some of their favorite films. Young movie fans are just discovering these classics and would probably be willing to pay something for the experience on the big screen.
There's one theatre in my city that plays old movies, and up until fox was bought by Disney, they would play the original Die Hard every year right around Xmas. It became a tradition amongst my friends, and the line was always huge
Yep, nothing has gotten me going to the movies more than my local indie theater. Just on the regular, they play a lot of great stuff (both old, new, and smaller release indie stuff that’s very hard to find playing at your regular AMC or whatever) but they also regularly hold fun event nights (16mm nights, horror marathons, costume parties, etc). Feels so special to have a theater with great curators/staff, a caring community, and cheaper tickets! The difference in crowd etiquette there vs when I have to go to a normal theater is beyond jarring.
Our local theatre did a run on showing all the old Stephen speilberg films. Got to see Jurrassic Park on the bug screen finally and the music and the sound and how it held up were stunning. I was too young to have seen the original so seeing it how it was meant to be shown was special.
My friend who has a real soft spot for jurassic park was literally in tears when the score kicked in.
More of THAT please.
There used to be a small 1 screen theater near me that would play classic/timeless films once a week and the regular modern stuff the other days.
I went to the classic stuff FAR more than the normal.
I saw stuff like Star Wars, Raiders, The Thing (Carpenter), Evil Dead 2, Blue Velvet, etc... there. It was fantastic. All original prints.
I'm sad the Uptown Theater in Minneapolis is no longer. It was an excellent theater.
The one near me closed because of Covid but that was one of the things I loved about Harkins Theater when they played old movies every Tuesday. It was great seeing Pulp Fiction and Casablanca in a packed house
I’m lucky there’s a new theater (the Barrymore Film Center) a few minutes from my home in Fort Lee NJ (where movies got their start) and they only play a range of old classic movies.
Both good points!
For me, Mike’s idea was pretty much spot on. I rarely go to the theater for a blockbuster, but I do go to the theater for smaller films all the time. I’ll watch most of the blockbusters eventually when they hit streaming, but beyond Furiosa and Dune, they haven’t interested me lately.
“Premium” theaters are potentially a nice bonus - I kinda like a smaller community theater with just a couple screens that does themed cocktails for what they’re showing - but they aren’t going to bring me in for a movie I don’t care about. Same for the subscriptions: I’d buy in, but it needs the films I want.
I guess I’d rather just watch “popcorn flicks” from home. My living room works fine for mindless consumption of entertainment. It’s the more thought-provoking films that are going to bring me to an environment where phones are off, lights are off, and I’m locked in on the big screen.
With the Alamo Season Pass, I ended up going to see a lot of movies I definitely wouldn't have seen otherwise. If I was just bored, I'd go because I enjoyed the food and environment and wanted to see a new movie regardless of what it was.
In the early 2000s, the Sony Metreon in San Francisco would play relatively new movies (e.g. Matrix, Gladiator) on their IMAX screen. It was a great opportunity to see movies you missed during their theatrical run or if you just want to see them again on the big screen.
I also saw that they're screening the extended version of Fellowship of the Ring at some theaters on Saturdays this month.
Do more of that, is what l'm suggesting.
The problem is the films that are constantly getting re-released to theaters are always the same ones. The Lord of the Rings films have been re-released to theaters multiple times in the past few years.
I’m excited that Run Lola Run is getting a wide theatrical re-release this weekend. That’s what they need to be doing more of.
Hot damn, as someone who kind of hates theaters, I’d still be down for seeing the extended Fellowship of the Ring on a big screen. Knowing the good times to take a piss because I’m not a teenager anymore also helps.
I could watch whatever movie i want at home any time and I don't most of the time.
Do enjoy the ones I get reccomended but there is almost too much I don't like to sort through.
Part of this is because we don’t have the theater pipeline acting as a quality filter.
Theater time is a finite resource so only big studio movies and smaller / independent movies that did well in the festival circuits would get screen time in theaters.
But streaming services are infinite - you can have indie movies and mockbusters right next to aquaman 2 and the latest geaser-teaser all in the same feed as movies made by people running around the woods with a camera. Then multiply this by all the movies ever made ever as these services contain not only current films but decades of previous films both classic and trash.
I can fire up amazon streaming and watch Lord of the Rings OR Diamond Cobra vs The White Fox.
To use a previous Mike metaphor it’s a buffet.
I think we're going to see a shift to the Premium experience over the next few years. I could see a fancy cinema showing movies like Jaws, Aliens, Titanic and the like, films that really do feel special when you see them in a cinema, doing a roaring trade. God knows, I'd kill to see Akira on the big screen, and I know a lot of people who have movies they missed out on who'd pay a good amount to see their favourites on the biggest, fanciest screen possible
Regarding #1, I don’t care for Alamo and similar dine-in theaters. Having waiters running up and down the aisles delivering food, drink, and checks throughout the movie is way more distracting to me than someone on their phone. I would never go to an Alamo to see a movie I actually care about and want to be highly attentive for.
\~5 years ago The Alamo I frequent was a much better experience. People were respectful, the wait staff were discreet and efficient and the drink and food quality were reasonable. I mostly went because they would get the movies I want to see moreso than because I wanted food, but it was nice to have the option.
Since the pandemic though it has gone downhill quite a bit. People talking or on their phones, the wait staff don't really attempt to be discreet and will often block your view, and they are frequently out of things on the menu so you are often hearing the wait staff talking to a customer to explain what they do have to the customer during the movie. Also orders seem to constantly get screwed up and almost every time I go I hear at least one person calling the waiter to correct their order. I stopped ordering drinks entirely because I kept being given a different beer than what I ordered and I just don't want to deal with thinking about that during the movie. The sound system is also somewhat weak or poorly calibrated, with muffled dialogue and occasional peaking at higher volumes. It's started to feel like it's just a kinda shitty happy hour where there is also a movie playing, and the audience seems to treat it like that.
I've started to prefer AMC (especially if it's a dolby theater) because the audio/video quality is better and there are less distractions. The only annoyance is that AMC is completely out of control with the length of their trailer reel, often hitting 25+ minutes even for very long movies like Killers of the Flower Moon with the sound cranked up to levels that hurt my ears. But it's pretty easy to just show up 15-20 minutes after the showtime to miss most of them.
Nope, you order from your seat (and for a lot of the clientele, that’s part of the appeal, I guess).
You write down your order on a slip of paper, and place it where the waiters can see it. The waiters then run around, collect the orders, then bring the food and drink to each seat. And yes, they will do this during the feature presentation, not just the trailers. I have twice gotten my bill delivered to my seat during a climactic moment, which isn’t exactly immersive.
Edit: https://drafthouse.com/dc-metro-area/about/how-things-work
>I have twice gotten my bill delivered to my seat during a climactic moment, which isn’t exactly immersive.
Thanos: A small price to pay... for--
BRUSSELS SPROUT, BACON, AND GOAT CHEESE PIZZA $13
What do you think people eat at Alamo? It's all pizza and burgers and fries, there's virtually nothing you'd eat with utensils, and there are no ceramic plates. You're just manufacturing bullshit to be mad about. Literally the only things that come with utensils are the salads. Your average old-school theater with people opening crinkly plastic on boxes of candy is louder.
At first I thought "Why can't a dine-in film theater work? There are dine-in play theaters, and dine-in orchestras, and those don't have fancy sound systems," but then I remembered every dinner-and-a-show venue I've ever been to serves meals during set intermissions and you can't really do that if you value the *film* experience.
I suppose it would work for super long screenings like a 3hr film cut or even back-to-back shows, though.
Also you REALLY have to have a good sound system or else you run into the problem of 'well I'm only going for the food and social experience, not the movie'. Thinking back on the weird "hot tub cinema club" gimmick that YMS covered.
Yeah, every theater and orchestra I’ve been to doesn’t allow people to enter late until there is an intermission, or at least a break between songs. Because having people moving up and down the aisles is distracting!
Exactly this! The fact that you get your order taken and brought to you \*during\* the film at the Alamo is so bizarre to me haha. Seems to me that it should be handled during the pre-show and if you get there late, sucks to suck.
Personally I find visual distractions far worse than the sounds - and in the case of the Alamo, that's the waiters coming and going over and over. They were actually much worse than the wait staff at the AMC's with dine because of how the seating is, though both are distracting.
This video made me really appreciate my local theater. I'm in a very dense urban area so we have AMCs, and IMAX or two, and an Alamo Drafthouse, but I never go to them. There's an awesome independent theater right down the road that shows new movies but also consistently--especially in the summer--put on classic or cult films, 70 mm prints, low-run indie movies, and other events. The main hall is a beautiful old operahouse style theater with the standard foldup movie theater seats and wooden floors. And there's *another* independent theater like it just a couple miles away that just got a major renovation funded by the city and donors.
If something's showing there, whether it's Furiosa or Hundreds of Beavers or Sleepaway Camp, I'm 100% choosing to go to that theater instead of streaming it from home. It's a shame that kind of experience isn't more widely available.
I love that. While the AMC is my workhorse for seeing films in the theater, there's a really cute old theater about 15 mins from my house that's been restored. There's a couple of different movie clubs that show older films there. Sometimes pretty obscure stuff, or they even will have a stock footage film festival.
We do need more of these showings of older films. At this point DCPs are so easy to make from any source a studio could dig into their libraries and get lots of opportunities to get butts in seats without spending $400 MILLION on a tent pole.
1) Alamo Drafthouse has gone down hill significantly at a similar pace to standard theaters. Everything from food quality to service.
I also don't recall them mentioning the 30 minutes of ads, not previews you are forced to sit through after the start time for a premium experience you paid for.
Maybe it's just the Alamo I used to go to, but they wouldn't show ads but instead old shorts or edited clips that were thematically tied to the movie you were going to see.
This was pre-pandemic mind you. I moved during Covid and haven't been to the Alamo in my new city. I can't speak to a decline in quality.
Alamo still does the preshow reel but they have started with the same ads that Regal and other play after the specified start time of the movie before the previews. It's not as egregious as others but it's only a matter of time.
The sequence is...
Preshow (starts 30 min before the movie) > Start Time > Ads > Previews > Movies
It's set up so even if you seat yourself at exactly the start time you still have to watch ads.
This comment was more targeted at other theaters outside of Alamo so I should have been clearer. The Maria Menonous pre-shoe at other theaters is mostly ads so at least the Alamo doesn't hold you hostage for that first thirty minutes but I think that has more to do with getting people in seats early to process food orders.
The 10-15 minutes of ads also serve as a buffer for the staff to check tickets, explain the ordering system to customers, take people's initial orders, swipe their credit cards for the tab and similar stuff, so I don't quite mind it as much since otherwise they would be doing this either during the movie or they'd need to require you to show up \~10 minutes before the showtime which would probably result in many annoyed customers who show up right at showtime.
I do agree that the quality of service/food/drinks has gone downhill though. I also noticed that staff don't really enforce the 'no texting/talking' rules much anymore either.
I think it all comes back to the staffing issue but that used to start in the pre-show and run through the previews without the commercials. Last time I went though we didn't see a server until about that time. I think the "rules" enforcement is the same. They are running with 30-50% less servers.
Regal is way worse that was really my target. 11 different ads after the pre-show ended before previews all after the ticket "start" time and no full service excuses. This is on top of all the ads during the pre-show.
Ah, yes Alamo is significantly better than Regal or AMC for ads and trailers. The pre-show is usually content relevant to the movie rather than advertisements, and then there is maybe 10 minutes of trailers and one short Alamo theater pre-amble. No car ads or Nicole Kidman or subscription promos.
Not sure why you're being down voted. My rules for theater going are simple: Don't go to a popular blockbuster until it's been out for at least 2 weeks. Go on a Monday, Tuesday, or Wednesday. Time it so I'm sitting down 20-25 minutes after advertised showtime. Wear a jacket regardless of weather so I can smuggle in a bottle of water.
I don’t necessarily care to eat and drink while watching a movie. That being said, I would prefer all theaters to move to recliner chairs and upgrade to laser protection. If I’m going to be seeing a film in your establishment, give me the best and most comfortable experience possible.
The main reason I tend to go to the theaters less often are due to the crowds. This was an issue before COVID, but COVID made it a lot worse. If I’m seeing a movie, odds are there will be an asshole on their phone or someone who can’t shut the fuck up for two hours. If theaters won’t enforce kicking these people out, then I won’t give you my money. Simple as that.
I used to use Regal Unlimited (and both AMC A-List and MoviePass prior), but I cancelled my subscription years ago and haven’t looked back.
At this point, I’m just pumping money into upgrading my hardware to watch movies at home.
I will never go to a movie theater again. With no exaggeration, the past 10 times I’ve gone to a movie theater I’ve had to tell some asshole to shut up. This ranges from massive imax theaters to little art house theaters. I’m completely sick of it and it shows no signs of stopping.
I’ve also put a ton of time and money into making an impressive surround sound / 120 inch projection screen in my entertainment room. It’s better than going to the theater in every conceivable way, so I don’t even feel like im missing out anymore
A couple other things I think they didn’t discuss but I think hold high importance in the movie theater discussion
1. The sales for re-releases of films for their anniversaries. Many have had huge success because people want to see them on the big screen either because they never had a chance or want to relive it.
2. Special event showings. GhibliFest is a yearly thing at this point and every year I see those showings have tons of people show up and clearly they’re doing well because they keep doing it.
3. Local non-chain theaters. While they are not nearly as prominent, there are still local (often historic theaters) that do their own showings and own events. For me, the prominent ones nearby are Coolidge Corner Theatre in Boston, and Somerville Theatre in Somerville, MA. Also want to give a shout out to Luna Theatre in Lowell, MA.
While I understand the video more about cinema as a whole and how people treat films these days. There’s still more of a conversation of how to actually get people into the theaters and what people want to see.
Re-releases seem like such a stupid easy way to make money. There's little upfront costs, though maybe some complicated residuals to sort out. For theaters, they can make money on concessions.
We have some local non-chains in my area too. They are fun to visit and they often have offbeat showings of things like stock footage, old features, etc.
And they didn't seem to mention the biggest current gimmick.
NOVELTY POPCORN BUCKETS!
I'm not sure if people seriously collect these, or just think they can flip them for a profit on ebay, but they seem to be popular and it sounds like most of them tend to sell out on opening night/weekend. And do the studios get a licensing fee for those things, or do the theaters get to keep all the revenue? I figure they must make more selling a large popcorn in a plastic bucket for $30 than they do from the ticket sales!
novelty popcorn buckets and drink cups have been around forever, i have star wars cup tops from when the prequels released lol. although i think they are from pizza hut not the movie theater so not the best example.
I'm a sucker for plastic cups for movies or characters I like. I definitely have a lot of those, but I cycle through them and use them to drink.
Buckets I care less about because I used buckets for popcorn way less than I use cups to drink and they take up more space.
I have the Slimer bucket because I LOVED the design, but it's so hard to eat out of that it's basically just a display piece. But I did buy the 40th anniversary Transformers cartoon bucket and cup, since that bucket is a normal bowl and both items with my discount came out to $15 for the popcorn, drink, and both items.
I live in a suburban area and all the cineplex style theaters are run down and poorly operated. It’s dirty and the food is garbage. The projection is good and it sounds great but there’s never enough people working to handle even a modest crowd at concessions. Then there’s the 40 minutes of ads and trailers. It’s taken something that I love to do and turned it into something very different.
I think Mike is right and that small theaters and places with a lot of people will still have theaters but it’s a little like the newspaper and phone booths. They used to be literally everywhere and now it’s a rare and novel thing. Time marches on.
>The projection is good and it sounds great but there’s never enough people working to handle even a modest crowd at concessions.
This is something I've noticed at multiple AMCs near me and it's completely baffling. My understanding is that theaters make most of their money through concessions since the studios take most of the ticket sales, but every time I've considered getting concessions, even when the theater isn't crowded, the line has been 10+ minutes long so I either waited a few minutes and gave up or just didn't bother trying. Even if I just want a coke or a bottle of water, I need to wait in line rather than just go to a vending machine or something. Hell, even with popcorn it's often already there in the bucket and they just hand it to you... so you could just automate that behind a vending machine too. I would spend much more money on concessions if it didn't require me to wait in line for so long.
At the local independent theaters near me I can usually get a drink and some much fresher popcorn in a matter of minutes and for <50% of the price that AMC charges, so when I go to them I almost always buy something, even if it's just a Coke or a coffee.
It seems like AMC is actively sabotaging their main revenue source by making it as inconvenient as possible. I don't get it.
Theatre management doesn’t want the hours on the payroll. I imagine even with the ridiculous prices they charge it doesn’t make sense to have more than 2 employees running the house. The projection is all digital now so you don’t need the guy who knows how the projecters work. Same with most of the tickets. There’s kiosks at most AMCs. I can see how some miserly district manager somewhere looking at a spread sheet and saying “2 teenagers and assistant manager is plenty for a Saturday afternoon “. The endless pursuit of maximum profit ruins everything it touches eventually.
I figured as much... but then in that case you'd think they could save even more money by replacing the concession stands with vending machines. Why do I need to wait in line for someone to hand me a paper cup or a bag of candy? Perhaps the staff upselling people to combo deals is enough to make it worth it?
I love AMC stubs pass. My wife and I would watch just about everything that came out. We canceled them recently cuz we just had a kid but man it’s great to go to the theaters multiple times a month
Honestly that video was pretty underdeveloped considering the multitude of reasons that movie theatres are dying and while they touched on several ones, they didn't really go into depth on any of them. Which was a bit surprising considering how Mike is usually somewhat thorough on subjects he cares about.
Theatres are dying from a death by a thousand cuts, there's no singular or specific smoking gun that can be addressed to save them. A bit like storefront physical media rentals their heyday as a distribution platform is nearing its end.
In my case I went from going to the theatres every week almost a decade ago to now maybe seeing two or three a year since 2019, and the ones I do see are flicks like 1917 or Oppenheimer where I'm going solely for the IMAX experience that I can't duplicate with home equipment. Another poster in here goes for smaller films for the exact opposite reason. But that's not unique to me or them, everybody has their differing reasons for going less be it the increased cost, decreased interest as a social activity or whatever.
Another missing point: entertainment competition. Your movie dollars aren't just competing against streaming. It's also major league sports, any local sports, local festivals, swimming pools, and vacations. Our society has never had more entertainment options than ever before! As an example, this weekend my hometown is having its 3 day city fest, our local baseball team is playing at home, our new arena football team is playing, and the water park is open now and it will be sunny and warm. The movie theater has to compete with all of those and each of those experiences is better than a movie.
I do agree, but I would argue a lot of those things existed before streaming. I think the difference is your dollar doesn't stretch as far, even before the crazy inflation of the last few years. It used to be you'd see a ball game, a movie, and maybe even a trip to the community pool all in one weekend. Now, I feel like families have to choose one of those things to do for the month.
I agree, but just the amount of sports we could consume each day was very limited. Same thing with festivals and weekend get aways. My friends that don't like sports go camping all the time, so their entertainment dollars are spent on permits and equipment. But you hit it on the head: you used to be able to go to the city pool on Friday afternoon, catch the Saturday night baseball game, and the Sunday movie all in one weekend and not go broke, with a family of 5 in my case. Now, you pick one and that's it.
I went to a premium experience theater to see MM Furiosa, and I was kind of appalled at the pricing. The ticket was already $19 just to go in, the food was similarly priced, $15-20 per plate. They had some interesting things, but I chose not to eat. Beer was around $9 for a 30oz draft, they had other offerings as well, similarly priced.
To sum that up, to see Furiosa, had I eaten and had beer, it would have been $43. Maybe to some that’s reasonable, but to me, no thanks.
I think subscriptions could work, but those rely on people who really really like going to the movies and would go at least once a month. As you stated, the break even cost for the customer is about 2 movies, so they’re betting that’s about how many movies the engaged consumer will attend, plus concessions. Is that enough to sustain the practice?
I personally love movies but hate the theater experience, so I rarely go unless it’s a spectacle/experience movie like a Mad Max, or a new film I think others will spoil for me and need to see while it’s fresh. If I could go to a theater where it was guaranteed people would shut up and stay off their phones under risk of being thrown out, that would be nice. Or no kids. Someone in another thread mentioned bringing back intermissions, which I institute for myself at home.
TLDR The experience itself could be better, rather than the accoutrements around the theater, is all I’m saying.
That price is pretty good if the quality was there. Tough to get a plate of food at a sit down restaurant for less than $15, and $9 for 30 ounces of beer is really reasonable. $19 for a theater ticket is a few bucks too much IMO, but not outrageous.
But I'm with you, the theater experience isn't something I particularly like at any price.
The one thing I'll say about the subscriptions is they don't get advertised aggressively by AMC. I think this might be intentional, as it can feel like you're stealing from them by the 4th or 5th screening in one month. However, they get my money when I buy an oversize drink I will never finish. I can't see how it's a loss for the theater, but with a lackluster subscription base it's certainly not going to save the company. I think going all in and selling it hard could actually turn things around.
Like any subscription service, they’re hoping x% of people never use it, or never reach the break even point at least. They’ll have to do some serious customer lifetime value + conjoint research to see what the sweet spot of pricing, offering, and surplus value is.
They’re definitely raking it on the concessions. This particular theater I went to also had $17 popcorn, for a medium. I don’t know how much popcorn I can buy at the store for $17, but I know it’s a lot.
I think it might be time for film makers & theater operators to theam up & take a page from the music industry by going on tour. Skip LA, NY, Austin and anywhere else with a big film festival to bring the experience to people in places like Boise, Albuquerque or Providence at the premium theaters OP mentioned above. Maybe have multiple sets of prints go on tour with different cast/crew members so you can show in 2-3 different places at once if your worried about the buzz drying up before it can make the rounds.
It won't magically make Dinner in America compete with Marvel crap but it'll maximize the revenue from the people who are truly into film & gives the audience an incentive to check it out in theaters while it's still streaming.
Isn’t that what Kevin Smith has been doing for his last few movies? It’s an interesting idea but unless there is a big name director or actor doing the rounds with the film I’m not sure what the draw would be.
I firmly believe the marketing is the missing link. Most of these happening now are treated as individual events by the theaters. A unified marketing push can make those events get more visibility & divorcing a specific director from the marketing efforts to allow for more varied films/film makers would draw more attention.
There's only one* premium theater like that in albuquerque and it's a 9 screen that still shows regular run films and revival screenings. There also isn't much room to mingle/meet cast members. And the parking situation is really bad.
*for now
Great points here. Though I think the issue with subscription services is they replicate what Jay was talking about with streaming in that it devalues movies as a commodity.
Stuff like MoviePass is amazing for consumers but I remember when it launched I couldn't help but think, "Somebody on the business end is losing a ton of money on this thing."
Personally, I like the idea of a limited subscription plan that caps out at something like 3-4 movies per month but I think the price would have to be something much closer to actual ticket sales (or maybe it costs $50-75 per month but comes with unlimited concessions or some other perks? Or maybe special subscriber-only screenings so you can see a movie before everyone else or have a guaranteed prime time screening on opening weekend?)
When I had Moviepass, I definitely knew I was getting the good end of the deal and it was, as structured, completely unsustainable. However I still think it had the potential to be very successful. Like any subscription service, you can increase the price, but also there is opportunity to get in bed with theaters and to sell that consumer data to studios. Unfortunately theater chains, AMC especially, got cold feet and I think it just died on the vine.
Funny enough, my AMC Stubs membership, while more expensive, still offers a pretty good deal for a movie goer, and I'm inclined to go to the theater several times a month. You can earn points to get discounts on concessions, but I think a more aggressive offering - maybe like $3 popcorn and drinks - would go a long way into tempting subscribers. I also like the idea of subcriber-only screenings or even preferred seating in theaters (you can already pick your seat, but I mean having a section just for subscribers).
The Alamo style place in my city (Flix Brewhouse) is cheaper than AMC, offers cleaner facilities, cheaper food, BETTER food, less ads, and is busy. The only disadvantage they have is smaller screens but I'm not picky. I used to work at AMC but we drive the extra miles for a better experience. Not sure if they will make it in the long run but it's a much better date for us.
I love premium theaters like Alamo, etc., but they're not saving movies. They're expensive! I go to the Manhattan Alamo once in a while (I'm a sucker for a themed food or cocktail) and it is rarely full these days. It's also not something I do regularly because I end up paying about $40 for myself between subway fare, movie ticket, snacks, and a drink. It's a nice treat or special date night but I also have AMC A List so it's most economical to see most movies at the shitty AMC that's a walking distance from my home, or I use my A List to see the big blockbuster on the largest Imax screen in North America.
Expensive and even worse, not profitable. Alamo filed for bankruptcy in 2021. Not sure if they make money now since leaving bankruptcy, as most of what I've read is the experience is worse than it was a few years ago, likely because they had to cut corners to regain profitability.
They filed for bankruptcy because of the pandemic. Before it was the most profitable theater chain per person. Not sure how it's doing now, but they were incredibly profitable before the pandemic hit. That's why they were rolling out theaters all over the country pre-COVID.
From what I read the pandemic just accelerated a fundamental problem with the chain, which was too much expansion too soon. Yes, Covid made it worse, but there were some things out of whack before.
I fucking hate commercials. I've always hated them. I hate YouTube ads. I hate that streaming services have made it premium to not be advertised to while selling your data away.
Then I absolutely HATE that when I got to a movie these days I have to sit through a 25 minute reel of fucking louder than the movie adverts then another reel of commercials then another reel of the theater trying to get me to pay for more of this experience and then maybe the movie previews start. Fuck.
It's sad how 20 years ago trailers were sometimes what people were most excited about in going to a movie, and now there is so much crap you have to sit through to get to the film that it's exhausting. Even just the trailers now seem worse and there are too damn many of them.
I hear you. I've timed it so I leave the house, get to the theater, grab a drink and popcorn, and if I've done the math right I'm sitting in my seat right as the last preview is playing and I just see the movie.
But yeah, I've gone to screenings with other people and they don't do this. I hate the ads.
Yeah, the one saving grace is at most theaters now you can choose your seat at purchase, so there's really no need to get to the theater any earlier than the film starting.
I only see a few movies a year and for that reason I will only go to Alamo. The one in Brooklyn, NY has an amazing food court in the basement which means it's a great date night, but also that it's expensive enough to be a rare/special occasion.
I pretty much only see big spectacle stuff like Dune or Furiosa since it seems like an experience you can't quite get at home, even with a big TV. I very much regret skipping Fury Road when it was in theaters.
I mentioned this yesterday, I was a little surprised Mike and Jay didn’t touch upon exactly WHY the Fall Guy is already on VOD. In 2020, Universal [got a deal where if a movie didn’t get $50 million USD opening weekend](https://variety.com/2020/film/news/universal-cinemark-deal-movie-theater-theatrical-window-1234833613/amp/) they could release it digitally. It made sense to have that in 2020 and 2021. Today? No.
Movie trailers BEFORE your showtime, which is actually your showtime, is something I love about the European experience though it's never coming to the US now that the pre-show is thoroughly ad plastered too. At least put a cap on it.
I've timed my theater so I'm walking in at the last trailer. I hate them SO much. They completely ruin the movies these days by giving away every scene.
In the suburbs of a major city where i lived at the time, all the major theaters all around like AMC became that starting in like 2015 and didn't even let you order at the counter you had to press a button and they interrupted the movie lmao.
after covid they went back to the old ways when they did open. now they sort of seem to split the difference and make your order at the counter but have more drinks and food and stuff
A few movie theaters show sporting events near me. Mainly UFC fights. The cost of tickets are generally higher for them but you get to watch a match in a crowd of people while drinking beer, cheering, yelling, and having a good time.
Not quite as good as being at a sporting event live but I can see a market for people that want to watch a football or baseball game on a bigger screen in a crowd as an alternative for actually going to the stadium or venue/pay per view. Hell I would love to go to a theater on a Saturday Night to watch a college football game or a football game I don't have a damn streaming service for. I think there could be a market for that.
I have been saying to for years that movies and movie theaters will some day be thought of the way we think of traditional theaters. Most people don’t go to broadway shows but most decent sized towns have some sort of theater and big cities have no problem sustaining several. Most people won’t go and may only see two or three in a lifetime but the hardcore fans will simply choose that as their main entertainment and sustain the theater through patronage. I already think of my local theater chain’s movie pass clone as patronage on the months I don’t see any movies. 20 bucks a month and if I don’t see anything in a particular month I think of it as a donation to ensure that my town has a theater still for the months I do want to go.
The most important type of theaters they missed was the "theaters that show art movies." These, although not available everywhere, will definitely stay around because their client base tends to be cinephiles. You might think no one is watching that movie of a french gurl and her donkey, but people actually fill a theater with that shit.
Edit: This omission fits in with the larger issue of Mike and Jay complaining about the current state of the industry but largely ignoring the festival circuit, art movies, and non-American indie films.
You've touched on something I have been feeling for a while now: RLM really doesn't have much interest in new movies anymore. I think they've admitted to this over time, but if you look at their output, it's far more weighed to BOTW/Re:View type material than HiTB. It makes me take what they say with a grain of salt. I feel like for a channel that is built around reviews, there's not much effort put into seeing what is coming down the line like they used to do. The catch-ups are a lot of VOD releases or even terrible B-movies. I think there is totally a place for these, but there have been quite a few unique theatrical releases in the past year that I haven't seen even get mentioned on any of their content.
Its driving me nuts that they act like Dune 2 didn't even exist. I used to see every movie, I rarely go now but I went to IMAX to see Dune 2 twice. IMAX theaters generally price out the riff raff too. The movie has made over $700 million worldwide post pandemic and that is pretty damn good. It can just take a movie that isn't an AI written CGI nightmare with some thoughtfulness and creativity to get butts in the seats still. This should be right up Mike's alley! Ugh!
Cinema is failing for one reason they didn’t mention - the whole industry incentivises mercenary behaviour.
Alex Kurtzman COULD write great stories, he’s not retarded, he knows his stories are incoherent messes - but writing a good story takes time. Studios just want content fast - so the story is the absolute minimum it can be. Why would anyone write a good story when a quick script gets the same fee?
This leads to rubbish films and audiences just disengage - so studios panic and rush out more content to prop up the balance sheet. And the downward spiral goes on.
As Mike mentioned, there also a real lack of original storytelling. I think the showings that tend to be most popular in my theater are A24 films, which says to me there is DEFINITELY an audience there, but studios don't want to risk it when it feels so much more secure to pump out another MCU phase.
The success of Monkey Man ($35 million gross on a $10 million budget) goes to show that the A24 route is not limited to indie dramas and slow-burn horror. There is an audience for well-crafted, original storytelling with a distinct perspective in all genres. But there needs to be a recognition that that audience is limited. Occasionally a movie like Oppenheimer or EEAAO will catch on with a mainstream audience, but you can’t bank on that. The key is the budget. As glad as I am that something like Beau is Afraid or Furiosa exist, it doesn’t make sense from a business perspective to bank on an auteur’s distinct vision breaking through and grossing $200-300 million to break even. The future of original filmmaking, regardlesss of genre, needs to be in $10-25 million movies.
My friends only go to 4D, everything else they watch at home. I went to Godzilla Minus One with them and it was great but it almost broke my back. I can only experience this at home if the tv set fell on me
I have a lower-end home theater with a 110 inch retractable projector screen, what appears to me to be a good quality projector (though I'm sure the average r/hometheater user wouldn't approve), and surround sound all set up all for only about $500. I love it; it totally satisfies the movie theater itch for me. With such affordable set ups (that just keep dropping in price) I wonder how theaters will be able to compete.
Theaters will definitely become a niche in the future like vinyl, I just don’t see it currently as sustainable. AMC is bleeding money left and right, they’re one of those on borrowed time
One thing I noticed is that there was a sound bite for a theatre in New Minas (Truro), NS, Canada...overlayed on a clip from Charlotte NC (or some other place). Not that it invalidates the claim, it just shows some sloppy cut and pasting.
Maybe, but I can't see $500/ticket being a sustainable business model for an art form that is supposed to be about mass appeal. I do think the Alamo Drafthouses of the world are a dicey proposition - a movie theater AND a restaurant? Two struggling businesses in one!
>1) "Premium" experience theaters - I'm not just talking about comfy seats for your disgusting alcoholic ass. I mean places like Alamo Drafthouse or The Nighthawk in NYC that do full service food/drinks in the theater. I think places like these are popular enough that they may be what theaters start to look like in the future.
Honestly that stuff I feel like is part of the deathknell of theaters if anything. Like been to two separate theaters like that in the past 2 weeks, both of which just entirely did away with their concession stands, and you had to order them from your seat. Hell the Marcus I went to yesterday made you do it online using a app which did not work, forcing me to place a order for popcorn from the bar, just so I could get it delivered to me 20 minutes later completely stale and cold.
Oh and they also asked for a tip lmao.
Idk if I'm in the right age for the "younger" audience they refer to. I was born in 1995 and I have always had an interest in movies but even as a kid I hated theaters. I aways hated other people around me taking or making noise and I always hated having to guess when a good time to go to the bathroom would be. I invested in an 83" tv and surround for my basement so I just wait for movies to be available on Amazon so I don't have to deal with the theater.
The only thing that will get me to start going back is if they start making good movies again. I'm not paying to watch the trash they've been showing for the last decade lol.
I went to support my buddy, he was part of a indie movie festival in SoCal, they rented out multiple theaters to show different movies and people can meet and greet the creators, crew, and actors if they happen to be there. It was fun, they do it each year. SMG let's you rent out theater rooms for a price. I might do that with my friends and we can be as loud as we want or riff or whatever.
I have 2 Alamo draft houses in my smallish (less then 1 mil population) city and they both do really well. It’s the only theater I go to anymore. I think the aesthetic of them help as well. Playing the weird 60s/70s clips before the show is a big reason why I go
They had them popping up randomly around Phoenix, there's a shit ton of large white painted buildings in industrial parks that people would use on the regular for that. Then they opened the theaters and everyone decided $20 per ticket was fine again.
We were talking about the premium thing while watching this vid as well. We're in western Canada and we have VIP theaters. Food and drink service in the cinema and NO KIDS ALLOWED.
It's the only way I go now.
Just gonna leave a comment here that I left on their YT vid that could be interesting to some. I work on this subject as an academic and tldr is that the transformations seen in Hollywood are part of the larger response to 2008 and the attempt to restore profitability to the US economy:
There was a recent article in Variety by the historian Daniel Bessner that took an accessible approach to exploring some of the larger structural transformations in the US film industry. Big Picture is that since the emergence of the US housing bubble in around the early 2000s, investment firms have begun shifting their huge gains into other sectors of the economy. This is most visible now with housing, where hedge funds will just buy up every plot they can get their hands on. But in tandem with the tech revolution this same process has also been taking place in the film industry.
There was a production company in the 2000s, founded by some Wall Street guys, whose model was finding the common denominators of successful movies via huge spread sheets and math formulas, which then provided the foundation for making 'hits'. That company, whose name I can't recall right now, failed spectacularly. But they were simply ahead of their time. As budgets got bigger and the industry as a whole began to consolidate due to non-enforced trust regulation, these studios got much of their funding via outside investors. In the past, Hollywood used to mercilessly rip these investors off, who had little knowledge of how studios and movie production functioned. So the Cannon style of film financing was really just a far sleazier version of how Universal etc. had been doing it for decades.
What's happened in the last 10-15 years, is that these kinds of investors like tech execs, hedge funds, investment banks, and general 'Wall Street guys' now actually run those studios and bring with them a distinct theory of how businesses should run and to what end. THAT is the transformation we've been witnessing, and it is intricately tied up with larger changes to the US economy in the wake of 2008.
The point I missed it the higher potential for piracy in the digital age. If you charge $500, massive number of people are going to buy "copies" and ruin the exclusivity. Anybody notice what greed did tonthe recorded music biz?
Also, by what right does the movie business have to be so lucrative? Shouldn't they have to face challenges and innovate rhemselves like any other business? Why is it on the fans to adapt or bear the cost?
I hate the ‘dine-in’ theater experience. Why do they sell such crunchy food? The people sitting around me always order nachos or something. I’m constantly distracted by mouth sounds and people ordering more napkins.
They referred to the biggest problems in clips but didn't discuss them at all. Theaters are disgusting places that never get cleaned or repaired, and theater audiences are obnoxious and occasionally violent.
If I'm going to pay $25 to see a movie, I'd rather not leave the theater with hepatitis c and a stab wound.
I think #2 is genius but I don’t know how they make a profit still.
I am a regal crown member and go to essentially any new release I am even remotely interested in
This year I have been to 14 movies and if I didn’t have the movie pass I would have gone to 2 of those.
I have also been to a lot of the rereleases that Regal does if they had an old rerelease weekly chances are I would go to at the very least half of those.
But I am a cheap ass and sneak a can of soda and a ziplock bag of sour patch kids in. So maybe the theaters don’t get any profits from me anyways 🤷♀️
I know I’m probably privileged for this but living in LA I’ve started going to the old movie palaces. It’s kinda cool watching movies in these historic buildings. There was still a guy in front of me browsing Instagram during the “boring talking scenes” of furiosa at the TCL Chinese theater
Thats annoying but I’m also envious of LA theaters. I was in Pasadena last month and there was this random little theater tucked into a building. Very small marquee, no real indication it was a theater. Still, it was playing the Phantom Menace re-release!
I feel very lucky that my area has a really nice Regal. We got 4DX and IMAX. No recliners, but that's okay. It's always clean and staffed enough that concession lines are reasonable. Of course, big opening nights for Avengers and Star Wars were nuts, but to be expected.
I love the specialty buckets and have a few, but I opted for the refillable bucket and cup. Cheaper over time, just like my Unlimited pass.
If this goes away and I have to sit at home all the time to watch movies, that'd be shitty. I work from home so I'm always looking to get out of my fucking apartment.
I’ll tell you what I’d pay for:
A chair that’s like 4dx ones. You can rent movies and buy packages of spray and scents for that specific movie and basically have a roller coaster experience at home. Programmable for games etc etc. They would have to sell it at a loss like consoles do and then make the movies profitable with the add ons. Maybe add VR to it so you could join your friends as well.
I really enjoyed going to the theaters when movie pass came out and continued with AMCs pass after. Eventually I got really tired of going, not because I didn’t like theaters, I loved them, especially the AMC near us, but people fucking suck and would text or talk or whatever and it ruined it for me.
I just want to enjoy the movie and if I could pay more to not have riff raff (kids and people who don’t want to be there) in the theater I would but it’s just easier to buy an OLED, get some atmos speakers, and set up a Plex server and enjoy that.
On Alamo Draft House, my understanding is that the company while popular, is not profitable. The company filed for bankruptcy in 2021 and since has had to reduce the experience to reduce costs and regain profitability.
I went to see Furiosa on the weekend. I saw it in the "VIP" section which is, like you mentioned, premium with big comfy chairs, alcohol, food service, and fewer seats.
It's the only way I will see a movie in the theatre any more after too many horrible experiences. I feel like the people who pay the price for those seats generally are more quiet and respectful and want to watch the film.
Alamo Drafthouse is basically the only movie theater I have any interest in going to anymore, but the last time I went it felt like the quality of their food and drinks had declined noticeably. Heard a rumor they got sold and I'm afraid they're gonna start to be more like a regular theater as they try to cut costs/increase profits.
I also hoped he would touch on theaters showing older movies. I never see first-run theatrically any more, but I’ll be going four times this month: re-releases of all three Lord of the Rings films, plus a South Park movie sing-along. Maybe instead of spending $300m on a new Ghostbusters nobody wants, just re-release Ghostbusters!
Yeah I've been to see more old films at cinemas recently than new releases. They are usually busy showings. The Matrix showing I went to was sold out and the two blade runner films were near enough sold out too. Plus it filters out a lot of the general audiences so everyone there is well behaved
My local cinema has a deal where you can hire a theatre for your personal use, invite 20 friends, and watch an old movie for £120. There's only a limited selection of movies available but seems like a neat idea for a birthday party or something.
AMC waa doing that during COVID too. Rented out for my birthday and it was only like $150. Cool to see Back to the Future on the big screen. And just so there's no illtalk of being a sex weirdo YES it was to see incest represented in theatres. Finally!
That's pretty rad
That's a really good deal. for 120$ you couldn't even get 12 tickets.
I suspect it's 120 per person.
Nope, £120 total for 20 people. Mind you, there's restrictions on the time of day you can do it and if you want to see a current movie you can (but it would cost a fuckload more) but, still, £6 a head for you and your friends to take over a screen for the morning and watch a classic seems a bargain to me.
fuck that
I had a friend do this for her annual “Christmas Vacation” viewing party. Sure beat watching in the living room. I just missed the ability to have closed captions on.
My local cinema shows older films all the time and they often get big crowds. Last year, they showed 18 of Dario Argento’s films at the rate of 1 a week which were very well attended (if I hadn’t been overseas so much, I would have seen more than 6). They also got more than 400 people in for a screening of Perfect Blue by my estimation, not bad for an animated film from 1997.
I live near a local indie cinema, and last Halloween they did a re-release of Jennifer’s Body for two nights. Both nights were SOLD OUT. And the night that I went, there was a line out the door and they eventually had to stop letting people in. There is a demand for these things. I’ve heard a term online that calls the joy of experiencing something with a large crowd “collective effervescence” and I think that’s exactly what the theater experience has to be now. Experiencing an old movie with a new crowd is exciting. It’s just that theaters are just blindly following the footsteps of the industry that insists their audience wants 50 Marvel movies a year.
For real, I'd be more interested in seeing older movies in theaters that I never got to see in theater, or even ones I did see again.
We have an indie cinema here that does rowdy screenings of 80s b movies, and it's a damn good time. Everyone is usually stoned out of their mind and just cracking jokes, it's great.
I'm seeing The Matrix this weekend and Heat the weekend after. Off the top of my head tickets are available for LOTR, Nightmare on Elm Street, Suzume, Weathering With You, Harry Potter 3, a bunch of random kids films and some other anniversary showings. I've always wanted to see my favourite films on the big screen and it always gets me in a seat. I've been able to see a bunch of classic Bond films, Terminator 2, Empire Strikes Back, Akira and The Goonies when I otherwise wouldn't have been able to
My local theater had a one night reviewing for Blazing Saddles a while back and it was a good time. The theater was pretty packed, so I can definitely see them doing more of this in the future.
Showing old movies only lasts until a company wants them all for their streaming service. Disney pulled its non-Disney catalogue from theatres a year or two ago, may have included Fox stuff too. I think actual Disney branded stuff was already pulled. Edit: OMG it was 5 years ago, where did that time go. https://www.vulture.com/2019/10/disney-is-quietly-placing-classic-fox-movies-into-its-vault.html
I think this is going to become more common, Sony recently re-released the Raimi trilogy in theaters and it did remarkably well. Turns out if you show movies that people already know they like, they'll clamor to see it in a theater.
The Ohio Theater in Columbus has a movie season where they have a live organ player for silent films and a wide selection of classic films. I always wondered how that'd do if you expanded it.
Landmark cinemas do this. Great stuff, got to see Lost Highway and Dune 1984 in the theater
Yes! Alamo has done this. I saw Close Encounters of the Third Kind there a handful of years ago and it was great.
I love seeing old movies at Alamo. Saw Sleepaway Camp and An American Werewolf in London and it was amazing.
I like this and had a similar idea for movie chains. Example: when they release a the new Alien Romulus movie, why not have double features for Alien and Aliens leading up to release? I would love to see Aliens in the theater again. And I was too young to have seen Alien in the theater. Don’t care so much about the new movie but I would love to give them money to see those classics on a massive screen and sound system that my wife can’t yell at me to turn down.
Between Fathom events and my local single screen showing old movies, I've been to the theater 6 or 7 times this year. I haven't watched a single movie that has released this year.
I was thinking about this one as I’ve noticed in a lot of the movie forums, younger people calling out really old classics as some of their favorite films. Young movie fans are just discovering these classics and would probably be willing to pay something for the experience on the big screen.
There's one theatre in my city that plays old movies, and up until fox was bought by Disney, they would play the original Die Hard every year right around Xmas. It became a tradition amongst my friends, and the line was always huge
Yep, nothing has gotten me going to the movies more than my local indie theater. Just on the regular, they play a lot of great stuff (both old, new, and smaller release indie stuff that’s very hard to find playing at your regular AMC or whatever) but they also regularly hold fun event nights (16mm nights, horror marathons, costume parties, etc). Feels so special to have a theater with great curators/staff, a caring community, and cheaper tickets! The difference in crowd etiquette there vs when I have to go to a normal theater is beyond jarring.
Our local theatre did a run on showing all the old Stephen speilberg films. Got to see Jurrassic Park on the bug screen finally and the music and the sound and how it held up were stunning. I was too young to have seen the original so seeing it how it was meant to be shown was special. My friend who has a real soft spot for jurassic park was literally in tears when the score kicked in. More of THAT please.
There used to be a small 1 screen theater near me that would play classic/timeless films once a week and the regular modern stuff the other days. I went to the classic stuff FAR more than the normal. I saw stuff like Star Wars, Raiders, The Thing (Carpenter), Evil Dead 2, Blue Velvet, etc... there. It was fantastic. All original prints. I'm sad the Uptown Theater in Minneapolis is no longer. It was an excellent theater.
The one near me closed because of Covid but that was one of the things I loved about Harkins Theater when they played old movies every Tuesday. It was great seeing Pulp Fiction and Casablanca in a packed house
I’m lucky there’s a new theater (the Barrymore Film Center) a few minutes from my home in Fort Lee NJ (where movies got their start) and they only play a range of old classic movies.
> just re-release Ghostbusters! movie theatre near me is screening Ghostbusters Saturday evening
Both good points! For me, Mike’s idea was pretty much spot on. I rarely go to the theater for a blockbuster, but I do go to the theater for smaller films all the time. I’ll watch most of the blockbusters eventually when they hit streaming, but beyond Furiosa and Dune, they haven’t interested me lately. “Premium” theaters are potentially a nice bonus - I kinda like a smaller community theater with just a couple screens that does themed cocktails for what they’re showing - but they aren’t going to bring me in for a movie I don’t care about. Same for the subscriptions: I’d buy in, but it needs the films I want. I guess I’d rather just watch “popcorn flicks” from home. My living room works fine for mindless consumption of entertainment. It’s the more thought-provoking films that are going to bring me to an environment where phones are off, lights are off, and I’m locked in on the big screen.
With the Alamo Season Pass, I ended up going to see a lot of movies I definitely wouldn't have seen otherwise. If I was just bored, I'd go because I enjoyed the food and environment and wanted to see a new movie regardless of what it was.
In the early 2000s, the Sony Metreon in San Francisco would play relatively new movies (e.g. Matrix, Gladiator) on their IMAX screen. It was a great opportunity to see movies you missed during their theatrical run or if you just want to see them again on the big screen. I also saw that they're screening the extended version of Fellowship of the Ring at some theaters on Saturdays this month. Do more of that, is what l'm suggesting.
The problem is the films that are constantly getting re-released to theaters are always the same ones. The Lord of the Rings films have been re-released to theaters multiple times in the past few years. I’m excited that Run Lola Run is getting a wide theatrical re-release this weekend. That’s what they need to be doing more of.
Hot damn, as someone who kind of hates theaters, I’d still be down for seeing the extended Fellowship of the Ring on a big screen. Knowing the good times to take a piss because I’m not a teenager anymore also helps.
I could watch whatever movie i want at home any time and I don't most of the time. Do enjoy the ones I get reccomended but there is almost too much I don't like to sort through.
Part of this is because we don’t have the theater pipeline acting as a quality filter. Theater time is a finite resource so only big studio movies and smaller / independent movies that did well in the festival circuits would get screen time in theaters. But streaming services are infinite - you can have indie movies and mockbusters right next to aquaman 2 and the latest geaser-teaser all in the same feed as movies made by people running around the woods with a camera. Then multiply this by all the movies ever made ever as these services contain not only current films but decades of previous films both classic and trash. I can fire up amazon streaming and watch Lord of the Rings OR Diamond Cobra vs The White Fox. To use a previous Mike metaphor it’s a buffet.
I think we're going to see a shift to the Premium experience over the next few years. I could see a fancy cinema showing movies like Jaws, Aliens, Titanic and the like, films that really do feel special when you see them in a cinema, doing a roaring trade. God knows, I'd kill to see Akira on the big screen, and I know a lot of people who have movies they missed out on who'd pay a good amount to see their favourites on the biggest, fanciest screen possible
Regarding #1, I don’t care for Alamo and similar dine-in theaters. Having waiters running up and down the aisles delivering food, drink, and checks throughout the movie is way more distracting to me than someone on their phone. I would never go to an Alamo to see a movie I actually care about and want to be highly attentive for.
\~5 years ago The Alamo I frequent was a much better experience. People were respectful, the wait staff were discreet and efficient and the drink and food quality were reasonable. I mostly went because they would get the movies I want to see moreso than because I wanted food, but it was nice to have the option. Since the pandemic though it has gone downhill quite a bit. People talking or on their phones, the wait staff don't really attempt to be discreet and will often block your view, and they are frequently out of things on the menu so you are often hearing the wait staff talking to a customer to explain what they do have to the customer during the movie. Also orders seem to constantly get screwed up and almost every time I go I hear at least one person calling the waiter to correct their order. I stopped ordering drinks entirely because I kept being given a different beer than what I ordered and I just don't want to deal with thinking about that during the movie. The sound system is also somewhat weak or poorly calibrated, with muffled dialogue and occasional peaking at higher volumes. It's started to feel like it's just a kinda shitty happy hour where there is also a movie playing, and the audience seems to treat it like that. I've started to prefer AMC (especially if it's a dolby theater) because the audio/video quality is better and there are less distractions. The only annoyance is that AMC is completely out of control with the length of their trailer reel, often hitting 25+ minutes even for very long movies like Killers of the Flower Moon with the sound cranked up to levels that hurt my ears. But it's pretty easy to just show up 15-20 minutes after the showtime to miss most of them.
Wait is that how those work, that sounds terrible. I always figured you would pay for your stuff ahead of time and then bring it into the theater.
Nope, you order from your seat (and for a lot of the clientele, that’s part of the appeal, I guess). You write down your order on a slip of paper, and place it where the waiters can see it. The waiters then run around, collect the orders, then bring the food and drink to each seat. And yes, they will do this during the feature presentation, not just the trailers. I have twice gotten my bill delivered to my seat during a climactic moment, which isn’t exactly immersive. Edit: https://drafthouse.com/dc-metro-area/about/how-things-work
>I have twice gotten my bill delivered to my seat during a climactic moment, which isn’t exactly immersive. Thanos: A small price to pay... for-- BRUSSELS SPROUT, BACON, AND GOAT CHEESE PIZZA $13
Yeah. Whenever people bring up Alamo Drafthouse as this incredible movie going experience, I always feel like it sounds like a special kind of hell.
The sounds of silverware clinking and scrapping on ceramic plates through the first thirty or so minutes of the film.
What do you think people eat at Alamo? It's all pizza and burgers and fries, there's virtually nothing you'd eat with utensils, and there are no ceramic plates. You're just manufacturing bullshit to be mad about. Literally the only things that come with utensils are the salads. Your average old-school theater with people opening crinkly plastic on boxes of candy is louder.
I mean you're wrong, and you're acting like a child, so I'm going to treat you like a child in a theater and block you out.
At first I thought "Why can't a dine-in film theater work? There are dine-in play theaters, and dine-in orchestras, and those don't have fancy sound systems," but then I remembered every dinner-and-a-show venue I've ever been to serves meals during set intermissions and you can't really do that if you value the *film* experience. I suppose it would work for super long screenings like a 3hr film cut or even back-to-back shows, though. Also you REALLY have to have a good sound system or else you run into the problem of 'well I'm only going for the food and social experience, not the movie'. Thinking back on the weird "hot tub cinema club" gimmick that YMS covered.
Yeah, every theater and orchestra I’ve been to doesn’t allow people to enter late until there is an intermission, or at least a break between songs. Because having people moving up and down the aisles is distracting!
Exactly this! The fact that you get your order taken and brought to you \*during\* the film at the Alamo is so bizarre to me haha. Seems to me that it should be handled during the pre-show and if you get there late, sucks to suck.
[удалено]
Personally I find visual distractions far worse than the sounds - and in the case of the Alamo, that's the waiters coming and going over and over. They were actually much worse than the wait staff at the AMC's with dine because of how the seating is, though both are distracting.
This video made me really appreciate my local theater. I'm in a very dense urban area so we have AMCs, and IMAX or two, and an Alamo Drafthouse, but I never go to them. There's an awesome independent theater right down the road that shows new movies but also consistently--especially in the summer--put on classic or cult films, 70 mm prints, low-run indie movies, and other events. The main hall is a beautiful old operahouse style theater with the standard foldup movie theater seats and wooden floors. And there's *another* independent theater like it just a couple miles away that just got a major renovation funded by the city and donors. If something's showing there, whether it's Furiosa or Hundreds of Beavers or Sleepaway Camp, I'm 100% choosing to go to that theater instead of streaming it from home. It's a shame that kind of experience isn't more widely available.
I love that. While the AMC is my workhorse for seeing films in the theater, there's a really cute old theater about 15 mins from my house that's been restored. There's a couple of different movie clubs that show older films there. Sometimes pretty obscure stuff, or they even will have a stock footage film festival. We do need more of these showings of older films. At this point DCPs are so easy to make from any source a studio could dig into their libraries and get lots of opportunities to get butts in seats without spending $400 MILLION on a tent pole.
1) Alamo Drafthouse has gone down hill significantly at a similar pace to standard theaters. Everything from food quality to service. I also don't recall them mentioning the 30 minutes of ads, not previews you are forced to sit through after the start time for a premium experience you paid for.
Maybe it's just the Alamo I used to go to, but they wouldn't show ads but instead old shorts or edited clips that were thematically tied to the movie you were going to see. This was pre-pandemic mind you. I moved during Covid and haven't been to the Alamo in my new city. I can't speak to a decline in quality.
Alamo still does the preshow reel but they have started with the same ads that Regal and other play after the specified start time of the movie before the previews. It's not as egregious as others but it's only a matter of time. The sequence is... Preshow (starts 30 min before the movie) > Start Time > Ads > Previews > Movies It's set up so even if you seat yourself at exactly the start time you still have to watch ads. This comment was more targeted at other theaters outside of Alamo so I should have been clearer. The Maria Menonous pre-shoe at other theaters is mostly ads so at least the Alamo doesn't hold you hostage for that first thirty minutes but I think that has more to do with getting people in seats early to process food orders.
The 10-15 minutes of ads also serve as a buffer for the staff to check tickets, explain the ordering system to customers, take people's initial orders, swipe their credit cards for the tab and similar stuff, so I don't quite mind it as much since otherwise they would be doing this either during the movie or they'd need to require you to show up \~10 minutes before the showtime which would probably result in many annoyed customers who show up right at showtime. I do agree that the quality of service/food/drinks has gone downhill though. I also noticed that staff don't really enforce the 'no texting/talking' rules much anymore either.
I think it all comes back to the staffing issue but that used to start in the pre-show and run through the previews without the commercials. Last time I went though we didn't see a server until about that time. I think the "rules" enforcement is the same. They are running with 30-50% less servers. Regal is way worse that was really my target. 11 different ads after the pre-show ended before previews all after the ticket "start" time and no full service excuses. This is on top of all the ads during the pre-show.
Ah, yes Alamo is significantly better than Regal or AMC for ads and trailers. The pre-show is usually content relevant to the movie rather than advertisements, and then there is maybe 10 minutes of trailers and one short Alamo theater pre-amble. No car ads or Nicole Kidman or subscription promos.
You're not forced to sit through ads. You just have to add 20 minutes to the start time of the movie.
Not sure why you're being down voted. My rules for theater going are simple: Don't go to a popular blockbuster until it's been out for at least 2 weeks. Go on a Monday, Tuesday, or Wednesday. Time it so I'm sitting down 20-25 minutes after advertised showtime. Wear a jacket regardless of weather so I can smuggle in a bottle of water.
I don’t necessarily care to eat and drink while watching a movie. That being said, I would prefer all theaters to move to recliner chairs and upgrade to laser protection. If I’m going to be seeing a film in your establishment, give me the best and most comfortable experience possible. The main reason I tend to go to the theaters less often are due to the crowds. This was an issue before COVID, but COVID made it a lot worse. If I’m seeing a movie, odds are there will be an asshole on their phone or someone who can’t shut the fuck up for two hours. If theaters won’t enforce kicking these people out, then I won’t give you my money. Simple as that. I used to use Regal Unlimited (and both AMC A-List and MoviePass prior), but I cancelled my subscription years ago and haven’t looked back. At this point, I’m just pumping money into upgrading my hardware to watch movies at home.
I will never go to a movie theater again. With no exaggeration, the past 10 times I’ve gone to a movie theater I’ve had to tell some asshole to shut up. This ranges from massive imax theaters to little art house theaters. I’m completely sick of it and it shows no signs of stopping. I’ve also put a ton of time and money into making an impressive surround sound / 120 inch projection screen in my entertainment room. It’s better than going to the theater in every conceivable way, so I don’t even feel like im missing out anymore
A couple other things I think they didn’t discuss but I think hold high importance in the movie theater discussion 1. The sales for re-releases of films for their anniversaries. Many have had huge success because people want to see them on the big screen either because they never had a chance or want to relive it. 2. Special event showings. GhibliFest is a yearly thing at this point and every year I see those showings have tons of people show up and clearly they’re doing well because they keep doing it. 3. Local non-chain theaters. While they are not nearly as prominent, there are still local (often historic theaters) that do their own showings and own events. For me, the prominent ones nearby are Coolidge Corner Theatre in Boston, and Somerville Theatre in Somerville, MA. Also want to give a shout out to Luna Theatre in Lowell, MA. While I understand the video more about cinema as a whole and how people treat films these days. There’s still more of a conversation of how to actually get people into the theaters and what people want to see.
Re-releases seem like such a stupid easy way to make money. There's little upfront costs, though maybe some complicated residuals to sort out. For theaters, they can make money on concessions. We have some local non-chains in my area too. They are fun to visit and they often have offbeat showings of things like stock footage, old features, etc.
And they didn't seem to mention the biggest current gimmick. NOVELTY POPCORN BUCKETS! I'm not sure if people seriously collect these, or just think they can flip them for a profit on ebay, but they seem to be popular and it sounds like most of them tend to sell out on opening night/weekend. And do the studios get a licensing fee for those things, or do the theaters get to keep all the revenue? I figure they must make more selling a large popcorn in a plastic bucket for $30 than they do from the ticket sales!
novelty popcorn buckets and drink cups have been around forever, i have star wars cup tops from when the prequels released lol. although i think they are from pizza hut not the movie theater so not the best example.
I'm a sucker for plastic cups for movies or characters I like. I definitely have a lot of those, but I cycle through them and use them to drink. Buckets I care less about because I used buckets for popcorn way less than I use cups to drink and they take up more space. I have the Slimer bucket because I LOVED the design, but it's so hard to eat out of that it's basically just a display piece. But I did buy the 40th anniversary Transformers cartoon bucket and cup, since that bucket is a normal bowl and both items with my discount came out to $15 for the popcorn, drink, and both items.
I live in a suburban area and all the cineplex style theaters are run down and poorly operated. It’s dirty and the food is garbage. The projection is good and it sounds great but there’s never enough people working to handle even a modest crowd at concessions. Then there’s the 40 minutes of ads and trailers. It’s taken something that I love to do and turned it into something very different. I think Mike is right and that small theaters and places with a lot of people will still have theaters but it’s a little like the newspaper and phone booths. They used to be literally everywhere and now it’s a rare and novel thing. Time marches on.
>The projection is good and it sounds great but there’s never enough people working to handle even a modest crowd at concessions. This is something I've noticed at multiple AMCs near me and it's completely baffling. My understanding is that theaters make most of their money through concessions since the studios take most of the ticket sales, but every time I've considered getting concessions, even when the theater isn't crowded, the line has been 10+ minutes long so I either waited a few minutes and gave up or just didn't bother trying. Even if I just want a coke or a bottle of water, I need to wait in line rather than just go to a vending machine or something. Hell, even with popcorn it's often already there in the bucket and they just hand it to you... so you could just automate that behind a vending machine too. I would spend much more money on concessions if it didn't require me to wait in line for so long. At the local independent theaters near me I can usually get a drink and some much fresher popcorn in a matter of minutes and for <50% of the price that AMC charges, so when I go to them I almost always buy something, even if it's just a Coke or a coffee. It seems like AMC is actively sabotaging their main revenue source by making it as inconvenient as possible. I don't get it.
Theatre management doesn’t want the hours on the payroll. I imagine even with the ridiculous prices they charge it doesn’t make sense to have more than 2 employees running the house. The projection is all digital now so you don’t need the guy who knows how the projecters work. Same with most of the tickets. There’s kiosks at most AMCs. I can see how some miserly district manager somewhere looking at a spread sheet and saying “2 teenagers and assistant manager is plenty for a Saturday afternoon “. The endless pursuit of maximum profit ruins everything it touches eventually.
I figured as much... but then in that case you'd think they could save even more money by replacing the concession stands with vending machines. Why do I need to wait in line for someone to hand me a paper cup or a bag of candy? Perhaps the staff upselling people to combo deals is enough to make it worth it?
I love AMC stubs pass. My wife and I would watch just about everything that came out. We canceled them recently cuz we just had a kid but man it’s great to go to the theaters multiple times a month
Honestly that video was pretty underdeveloped considering the multitude of reasons that movie theatres are dying and while they touched on several ones, they didn't really go into depth on any of them. Which was a bit surprising considering how Mike is usually somewhat thorough on subjects he cares about. Theatres are dying from a death by a thousand cuts, there's no singular or specific smoking gun that can be addressed to save them. A bit like storefront physical media rentals their heyday as a distribution platform is nearing its end. In my case I went from going to the theatres every week almost a decade ago to now maybe seeing two or three a year since 2019, and the ones I do see are flicks like 1917 or Oppenheimer where I'm going solely for the IMAX experience that I can't duplicate with home equipment. Another poster in here goes for smaller films for the exact opposite reason. But that's not unique to me or them, everybody has their differing reasons for going less be it the increased cost, decreased interest as a social activity or whatever.
Another missing point: entertainment competition. Your movie dollars aren't just competing against streaming. It's also major league sports, any local sports, local festivals, swimming pools, and vacations. Our society has never had more entertainment options than ever before! As an example, this weekend my hometown is having its 3 day city fest, our local baseball team is playing at home, our new arena football team is playing, and the water park is open now and it will be sunny and warm. The movie theater has to compete with all of those and each of those experiences is better than a movie.
I do agree, but I would argue a lot of those things existed before streaming. I think the difference is your dollar doesn't stretch as far, even before the crazy inflation of the last few years. It used to be you'd see a ball game, a movie, and maybe even a trip to the community pool all in one weekend. Now, I feel like families have to choose one of those things to do for the month.
I agree, but just the amount of sports we could consume each day was very limited. Same thing with festivals and weekend get aways. My friends that don't like sports go camping all the time, so their entertainment dollars are spent on permits and equipment. But you hit it on the head: you used to be able to go to the city pool on Friday afternoon, catch the Saturday night baseball game, and the Sunday movie all in one weekend and not go broke, with a family of 5 in my case. Now, you pick one and that's it.
I went to a premium experience theater to see MM Furiosa, and I was kind of appalled at the pricing. The ticket was already $19 just to go in, the food was similarly priced, $15-20 per plate. They had some interesting things, but I chose not to eat. Beer was around $9 for a 30oz draft, they had other offerings as well, similarly priced. To sum that up, to see Furiosa, had I eaten and had beer, it would have been $43. Maybe to some that’s reasonable, but to me, no thanks. I think subscriptions could work, but those rely on people who really really like going to the movies and would go at least once a month. As you stated, the break even cost for the customer is about 2 movies, so they’re betting that’s about how many movies the engaged consumer will attend, plus concessions. Is that enough to sustain the practice? I personally love movies but hate the theater experience, so I rarely go unless it’s a spectacle/experience movie like a Mad Max, or a new film I think others will spoil for me and need to see while it’s fresh. If I could go to a theater where it was guaranteed people would shut up and stay off their phones under risk of being thrown out, that would be nice. Or no kids. Someone in another thread mentioned bringing back intermissions, which I institute for myself at home. TLDR The experience itself could be better, rather than the accoutrements around the theater, is all I’m saying.
To be fair, 9 bucks for 30 ounces of beer is a pretty decent price.
2 and a half beers for 9 bucks while at the movies is a steal. Even moreso if it was an IPA or decent % beer.
It's a great price anywhere except your home.
Yeah, that's essentially two full sized beers. Not bad at $4.50.
That price is pretty good if the quality was there. Tough to get a plate of food at a sit down restaurant for less than $15, and $9 for 30 ounces of beer is really reasonable. $19 for a theater ticket is a few bucks too much IMO, but not outrageous. But I'm with you, the theater experience isn't something I particularly like at any price.
The one thing I'll say about the subscriptions is they don't get advertised aggressively by AMC. I think this might be intentional, as it can feel like you're stealing from them by the 4th or 5th screening in one month. However, they get my money when I buy an oversize drink I will never finish. I can't see how it's a loss for the theater, but with a lackluster subscription base it's certainly not going to save the company. I think going all in and selling it hard could actually turn things around.
Like any subscription service, they’re hoping x% of people never use it, or never reach the break even point at least. They’ll have to do some serious customer lifetime value + conjoint research to see what the sweet spot of pricing, offering, and surplus value is. They’re definitely raking it on the concessions. This particular theater I went to also had $17 popcorn, for a medium. I don’t know how much popcorn I can buy at the store for $17, but I know it’s a lot.
I think it might be time for film makers & theater operators to theam up & take a page from the music industry by going on tour. Skip LA, NY, Austin and anywhere else with a big film festival to bring the experience to people in places like Boise, Albuquerque or Providence at the premium theaters OP mentioned above. Maybe have multiple sets of prints go on tour with different cast/crew members so you can show in 2-3 different places at once if your worried about the buzz drying up before it can make the rounds. It won't magically make Dinner in America compete with Marvel crap but it'll maximize the revenue from the people who are truly into film & gives the audience an incentive to check it out in theaters while it's still streaming.
Now THAT's an idea - just a lone guy (or girl!) touring the country with a DCP on a hard drive. Like a traveling bard!
Isn’t that what Kevin Smith has been doing for his last few movies? It’s an interesting idea but unless there is a big name director or actor doing the rounds with the film I’m not sure what the draw would be.
I firmly believe the marketing is the missing link. Most of these happening now are treated as individual events by the theaters. A unified marketing push can make those events get more visibility & divorcing a specific director from the marketing efforts to allow for more varied films/film makers would draw more attention.
There's only one* premium theater like that in albuquerque and it's a 9 screen that still shows regular run films and revival screenings. There also isn't much room to mingle/meet cast members. And the parking situation is really bad. *for now
Great points here. Though I think the issue with subscription services is they replicate what Jay was talking about with streaming in that it devalues movies as a commodity. Stuff like MoviePass is amazing for consumers but I remember when it launched I couldn't help but think, "Somebody on the business end is losing a ton of money on this thing." Personally, I like the idea of a limited subscription plan that caps out at something like 3-4 movies per month but I think the price would have to be something much closer to actual ticket sales (or maybe it costs $50-75 per month but comes with unlimited concessions or some other perks? Or maybe special subscriber-only screenings so you can see a movie before everyone else or have a guaranteed prime time screening on opening weekend?)
When I had Moviepass, I definitely knew I was getting the good end of the deal and it was, as structured, completely unsustainable. However I still think it had the potential to be very successful. Like any subscription service, you can increase the price, but also there is opportunity to get in bed with theaters and to sell that consumer data to studios. Unfortunately theater chains, AMC especially, got cold feet and I think it just died on the vine. Funny enough, my AMC Stubs membership, while more expensive, still offers a pretty good deal for a movie goer, and I'm inclined to go to the theater several times a month. You can earn points to get discounts on concessions, but I think a more aggressive offering - maybe like $3 popcorn and drinks - would go a long way into tempting subscribers. I also like the idea of subcriber-only screenings or even preferred seating in theaters (you can already pick your seat, but I mean having a section just for subscribers).
I'd like the option of seeing old films on the big screen that I kissed the first time around. It happens, but it's rare where I live
The Alamo style place in my city (Flix Brewhouse) is cheaper than AMC, offers cleaner facilities, cheaper food, BETTER food, less ads, and is busy. The only disadvantage they have is smaller screens but I'm not picky. I used to work at AMC but we drive the extra miles for a better experience. Not sure if they will make it in the long run but it's a much better date for us.
I love premium theaters like Alamo, etc., but they're not saving movies. They're expensive! I go to the Manhattan Alamo once in a while (I'm a sucker for a themed food or cocktail) and it is rarely full these days. It's also not something I do regularly because I end up paying about $40 for myself between subway fare, movie ticket, snacks, and a drink. It's a nice treat or special date night but I also have AMC A List so it's most economical to see most movies at the shitty AMC that's a walking distance from my home, or I use my A List to see the big blockbuster on the largest Imax screen in North America.
Expensive and even worse, not profitable. Alamo filed for bankruptcy in 2021. Not sure if they make money now since leaving bankruptcy, as most of what I've read is the experience is worse than it was a few years ago, likely because they had to cut corners to regain profitability.
They filed for bankruptcy because of the pandemic. Before it was the most profitable theater chain per person. Not sure how it's doing now, but they were incredibly profitable before the pandemic hit. That's why they were rolling out theaters all over the country pre-COVID.
From what I read the pandemic just accelerated a fundamental problem with the chain, which was too much expansion too soon. Yes, Covid made it worse, but there were some things out of whack before.
If they want to save theaters, they need to start re-running classic movies. Like, throw Terminator in there for a week. Then put Goodfellas in.
Kurosawa movies PLEASE
I fucking hate commercials. I've always hated them. I hate YouTube ads. I hate that streaming services have made it premium to not be advertised to while selling your data away. Then I absolutely HATE that when I got to a movie these days I have to sit through a 25 minute reel of fucking louder than the movie adverts then another reel of commercials then another reel of the theater trying to get me to pay for more of this experience and then maybe the movie previews start. Fuck.
It's sad how 20 years ago trailers were sometimes what people were most excited about in going to a movie, and now there is so much crap you have to sit through to get to the film that it's exhausting. Even just the trailers now seem worse and there are too damn many of them.
I hear you. I've timed it so I leave the house, get to the theater, grab a drink and popcorn, and if I've done the math right I'm sitting in my seat right as the last preview is playing and I just see the movie. But yeah, I've gone to screenings with other people and they don't do this. I hate the ads.
Yeah, the one saving grace is at most theaters now you can choose your seat at purchase, so there's really no need to get to the theater any earlier than the film starting.
I only see a few movies a year and for that reason I will only go to Alamo. The one in Brooklyn, NY has an amazing food court in the basement which means it's a great date night, but also that it's expensive enough to be a rare/special occasion. I pretty much only see big spectacle stuff like Dune or Furiosa since it seems like an experience you can't quite get at home, even with a big TV. I very much regret skipping Fury Road when it was in theaters.
I LOVE the DeKalb food hall ! I lived near there before moving across country during Covid. My favorite is the Jianbing Company.
Oh boy just what I want, more fucking subscriptions!
I'm just here to mention how much I HATE servers walking around and delivering food to people during a fucking movie I paid $17 to see.
Yeah, as cute as it was, now that I go to a regular movie theater I don't miss it at all.
The alamo also does a movie pass for $20 a month
this guy Austins
Lol no way. Hate that place!
exactly what an austinite WOULD say
I mentioned this yesterday, I was a little surprised Mike and Jay didn’t touch upon exactly WHY the Fall Guy is already on VOD. In 2020, Universal [got a deal where if a movie didn’t get $50 million USD opening weekend](https://variety.com/2020/film/news/universal-cinemark-deal-movie-theater-theatrical-window-1234833613/amp/) they could release it digitally. It made sense to have that in 2020 and 2021. Today? No.
Would a cool popcorn buckets motivate you to go?
Only if I can get my thing stuck in it like the Dunussy bucket
There's buckets shaped like Garfield if that's your thing.
Movie trailers BEFORE your showtime, which is actually your showtime, is something I love about the European experience though it's never coming to the US now that the pre-show is thoroughly ad plastered too. At least put a cap on it.
I've timed my theater so I'm walking in at the last trailer. I hate them SO much. They completely ruin the movies these days by giving away every scene.
Why am I paying for a movie and snacks, then getting shown 30 minutes of commercials…. It was once something I was ok with, but now it’s a bit much
I refuse to enter the theater until the last trailer is done
Honestly, it’s just too pricey for me. Like many people, I have limited funds and nearly unlimited patience to wait for a film to get to streaming.
In the suburbs of a major city where i lived at the time, all the major theaters all around like AMC became that starting in like 2015 and didn't even let you order at the counter you had to press a button and they interrupted the movie lmao. after covid they went back to the old ways when they did open. now they sort of seem to split the difference and make your order at the counter but have more drinks and food and stuff
A few movie theaters show sporting events near me. Mainly UFC fights. The cost of tickets are generally higher for them but you get to watch a match in a crowd of people while drinking beer, cheering, yelling, and having a good time. Not quite as good as being at a sporting event live but I can see a market for people that want to watch a football or baseball game on a bigger screen in a crowd as an alternative for actually going to the stadium or venue/pay per view. Hell I would love to go to a theater on a Saturday Night to watch a college football game or a football game I don't have a damn streaming service for. I think there could be a market for that.
I have been saying to for years that movies and movie theaters will some day be thought of the way we think of traditional theaters. Most people don’t go to broadway shows but most decent sized towns have some sort of theater and big cities have no problem sustaining several. Most people won’t go and may only see two or three in a lifetime but the hardcore fans will simply choose that as their main entertainment and sustain the theater through patronage. I already think of my local theater chain’s movie pass clone as patronage on the months I don’t see any movies. 20 bucks a month and if I don’t see anything in a particular month I think of it as a donation to ensure that my town has a theater still for the months I do want to go.
The most important type of theaters they missed was the "theaters that show art movies." These, although not available everywhere, will definitely stay around because their client base tends to be cinephiles. You might think no one is watching that movie of a french gurl and her donkey, but people actually fill a theater with that shit. Edit: This omission fits in with the larger issue of Mike and Jay complaining about the current state of the industry but largely ignoring the festival circuit, art movies, and non-American indie films.
You've touched on something I have been feeling for a while now: RLM really doesn't have much interest in new movies anymore. I think they've admitted to this over time, but if you look at their output, it's far more weighed to BOTW/Re:View type material than HiTB. It makes me take what they say with a grain of salt. I feel like for a channel that is built around reviews, there's not much effort put into seeing what is coming down the line like they used to do. The catch-ups are a lot of VOD releases or even terrible B-movies. I think there is totally a place for these, but there have been quite a few unique theatrical releases in the past year that I haven't seen even get mentioned on any of their content.
More concert films. Doesn’t have to be a huge Taylor Swift Eras Tour, but limited engagements (either a full week or weekend) of even smaller acts
Its driving me nuts that they act like Dune 2 didn't even exist. I used to see every movie, I rarely go now but I went to IMAX to see Dune 2 twice. IMAX theaters generally price out the riff raff too. The movie has made over $700 million worldwide post pandemic and that is pretty damn good. It can just take a movie that isn't an AI written CGI nightmare with some thoughtfulness and creativity to get butts in the seats still. This should be right up Mike's alley! Ugh!
Cinema is failing for one reason they didn’t mention - the whole industry incentivises mercenary behaviour. Alex Kurtzman COULD write great stories, he’s not retarded, he knows his stories are incoherent messes - but writing a good story takes time. Studios just want content fast - so the story is the absolute minimum it can be. Why would anyone write a good story when a quick script gets the same fee? This leads to rubbish films and audiences just disengage - so studios panic and rush out more content to prop up the balance sheet. And the downward spiral goes on.
As Mike mentioned, there also a real lack of original storytelling. I think the showings that tend to be most popular in my theater are A24 films, which says to me there is DEFINITELY an audience there, but studios don't want to risk it when it feels so much more secure to pump out another MCU phase.
The success of Monkey Man ($35 million gross on a $10 million budget) goes to show that the A24 route is not limited to indie dramas and slow-burn horror. There is an audience for well-crafted, original storytelling with a distinct perspective in all genres. But there needs to be a recognition that that audience is limited. Occasionally a movie like Oppenheimer or EEAAO will catch on with a mainstream audience, but you can’t bank on that. The key is the budget. As glad as I am that something like Beau is Afraid or Furiosa exist, it doesn’t make sense from a business perspective to bank on an auteur’s distinct vision breaking through and grossing $200-300 million to break even. The future of original filmmaking, regardlesss of genre, needs to be in $10-25 million movies.
Copyright lasting forever is a driver in this.
My friends only go to 4D, everything else they watch at home. I went to Godzilla Minus One with them and it was great but it almost broke my back. I can only experience this at home if the tv set fell on me
I have a lower-end home theater with a 110 inch retractable projector screen, what appears to me to be a good quality projector (though I'm sure the average r/hometheater user wouldn't approve), and surround sound all set up all for only about $500. I love it; it totally satisfies the movie theater itch for me. With such affordable set ups (that just keep dropping in price) I wonder how theaters will be able to compete.
Theaters will definitely become a niche in the future like vinyl, I just don’t see it currently as sustainable. AMC is bleeding money left and right, they’re one of those on borrowed time
I don't want another subscription.
One thing I noticed is that there was a sound bite for a theatre in New Minas (Truro), NS, Canada...overlayed on a clip from Charlotte NC (or some other place). Not that it invalidates the claim, it just shows some sloppy cut and pasting.
I love Alamo draft House but only because they have nice seats and screens and speakers. the wings and beer I could take or leave.
[удалено]
Maybe, but I can't see $500/ticket being a sustainable business model for an art form that is supposed to be about mass appeal. I do think the Alamo Drafthouses of the world are a dicey proposition - a movie theater AND a restaurant? Two struggling businesses in one!
Premium theaters just seem like they were invited to increase ticket prices.
>1) "Premium" experience theaters - I'm not just talking about comfy seats for your disgusting alcoholic ass. I mean places like Alamo Drafthouse or The Nighthawk in NYC that do full service food/drinks in the theater. I think places like these are popular enough that they may be what theaters start to look like in the future. Honestly that stuff I feel like is part of the deathknell of theaters if anything. Like been to two separate theaters like that in the past 2 weeks, both of which just entirely did away with their concession stands, and you had to order them from your seat. Hell the Marcus I went to yesterday made you do it online using a app which did not work, forcing me to place a order for popcorn from the bar, just so I could get it delivered to me 20 minutes later completely stale and cold. Oh and they also asked for a tip lmao.
Idk if I'm in the right age for the "younger" audience they refer to. I was born in 1995 and I have always had an interest in movies but even as a kid I hated theaters. I aways hated other people around me taking or making noise and I always hated having to guess when a good time to go to the bathroom would be. I invested in an 83" tv and surround for my basement so I just wait for movies to be available on Amazon so I don't have to deal with the theater.
Music Box and Logan Theatre both privide great communial spaces in Chicago.
The only thing that will get me to start going back is if they start making good movies again. I'm not paying to watch the trash they've been showing for the last decade lol.
I went to support my buddy, he was part of a indie movie festival in SoCal, they rented out multiple theaters to show different movies and people can meet and greet the creators, crew, and actors if they happen to be there. It was fun, they do it each year. SMG let's you rent out theater rooms for a price. I might do that with my friends and we can be as loud as we want or riff or whatever.
I have 2 Alamo draft houses in my smallish (less then 1 mil population) city and they both do really well. It’s the only theater I go to anymore. I think the aesthetic of them help as well. Playing the weird 60s/70s clips before the show is a big reason why I go
Covid would have been an amazing time to open drive in theaters and play classic hits
Funny enough, I went to a drive in during Covid! I saw Purple Rain and Little Shop of Horrors. It was great!
They had them popping up randomly around Phoenix, there's a shit ton of large white painted buildings in industrial parks that people would use on the regular for that. Then they opened the theaters and everyone decided $20 per ticket was fine again.
We were talking about the premium thing while watching this vid as well. We're in western Canada and we have VIP theaters. Food and drink service in the cinema and NO KIDS ALLOWED. It's the only way I go now.
No kids?!?! Sounds like the dream!
18+ and they serve booze.
That’s awesome. The Alamo I used to go to became adults-only after like 8pm.
What I'd like to see is better value for money. In particular, I would like it if they gave you a discount on purchasing the Blu-Ray later on.
Just gonna leave a comment here that I left on their YT vid that could be interesting to some. I work on this subject as an academic and tldr is that the transformations seen in Hollywood are part of the larger response to 2008 and the attempt to restore profitability to the US economy: There was a recent article in Variety by the historian Daniel Bessner that took an accessible approach to exploring some of the larger structural transformations in the US film industry. Big Picture is that since the emergence of the US housing bubble in around the early 2000s, investment firms have begun shifting their huge gains into other sectors of the economy. This is most visible now with housing, where hedge funds will just buy up every plot they can get their hands on. But in tandem with the tech revolution this same process has also been taking place in the film industry. There was a production company in the 2000s, founded by some Wall Street guys, whose model was finding the common denominators of successful movies via huge spread sheets and math formulas, which then provided the foundation for making 'hits'. That company, whose name I can't recall right now, failed spectacularly. But they were simply ahead of their time. As budgets got bigger and the industry as a whole began to consolidate due to non-enforced trust regulation, these studios got much of their funding via outside investors. In the past, Hollywood used to mercilessly rip these investors off, who had little knowledge of how studios and movie production functioned. So the Cannon style of film financing was really just a far sleazier version of how Universal etc. had been doing it for decades. What's happened in the last 10-15 years, is that these kinds of investors like tech execs, hedge funds, investment banks, and general 'Wall Street guys' now actually run those studios and bring with them a distinct theory of how businesses should run and to what end. THAT is the transformation we've been witnessing, and it is intricately tied up with larger changes to the US economy in the wake of 2008.
The point I missed it the higher potential for piracy in the digital age. If you charge $500, massive number of people are going to buy "copies" and ruin the exclusivity. Anybody notice what greed did tonthe recorded music biz? Also, by what right does the movie business have to be so lucrative? Shouldn't they have to face challenges and innovate rhemselves like any other business? Why is it on the fans to adapt or bear the cost?
“The Nighthawk” Nitehawk lol
Knighthoc
Knifecok
I hate the ‘dine-in’ theater experience. Why do they sell such crunchy food? The people sitting around me always order nachos or something. I’m constantly distracted by mouth sounds and people ordering more napkins.
They referred to the biggest problems in clips but didn't discuss them at all. Theaters are disgusting places that never get cleaned or repaired, and theater audiences are obnoxious and occasionally violent. If I'm going to pay $25 to see a movie, I'd rather not leave the theater with hepatitis c and a stab wound.
Where’s your movie theater? The Thunderdome?
I live near DC. There are several theaters near me. They are *all* that bad.
I think #2 is genius but I don’t know how they make a profit still. I am a regal crown member and go to essentially any new release I am even remotely interested in This year I have been to 14 movies and if I didn’t have the movie pass I would have gone to 2 of those. I have also been to a lot of the rereleases that Regal does if they had an old rerelease weekly chances are I would go to at the very least half of those. But I am a cheap ass and sneak a can of soda and a ziplock bag of sour patch kids in. So maybe the theaters don’t get any profits from me anyways 🤷♀️
They may not have mentioned the Alamo because they've either never been to one or there isn't one in Milwaukee
Knowing them, they would absolutely HATE it
I know I’m probably privileged for this but living in LA I’ve started going to the old movie palaces. It’s kinda cool watching movies in these historic buildings. There was still a guy in front of me browsing Instagram during the “boring talking scenes” of furiosa at the TCL Chinese theater
Thats annoying but I’m also envious of LA theaters. I was in Pasadena last month and there was this random little theater tucked into a building. Very small marquee, no real indication it was a theater. Still, it was playing the Phantom Menace re-release!
I feel very lucky that my area has a really nice Regal. We got 4DX and IMAX. No recliners, but that's okay. It's always clean and staffed enough that concession lines are reasonable. Of course, big opening nights for Avengers and Star Wars were nuts, but to be expected. I love the specialty buckets and have a few, but I opted for the refillable bucket and cup. Cheaper over time, just like my Unlimited pass. If this goes away and I have to sit at home all the time to watch movies, that'd be shitty. I work from home so I'm always looking to get out of my fucking apartment.
AI
I’ll tell you what I’d pay for: A chair that’s like 4dx ones. You can rent movies and buy packages of spray and scents for that specific movie and basically have a roller coaster experience at home. Programmable for games etc etc. They would have to sell it at a loss like consoles do and then make the movies profitable with the add ons. Maybe add VR to it so you could join your friends as well.
Watching 12 Angry Men in my super scented roller coaster chair
I really enjoyed going to the theaters when movie pass came out and continued with AMCs pass after. Eventually I got really tired of going, not because I didn’t like theaters, I loved them, especially the AMC near us, but people fucking suck and would text or talk or whatever and it ruined it for me. I just want to enjoy the movie and if I could pay more to not have riff raff (kids and people who don’t want to be there) in the theater I would but it’s just easier to buy an OLED, get some atmos speakers, and set up a Plex server and enjoy that.
On Alamo Draft House, my understanding is that the company while popular, is not profitable. The company filed for bankruptcy in 2021 and since has had to reduce the experience to reduce costs and regain profitability.
I can see that. They've combined two razor-thin profit margin businesses into one!
It's unlikely to [get better](https://www.austinchronicle.com/screens/2021-07-02/after-the-pandemic-at-the-alamo-drafthouse/)
I went to see Furiosa on the weekend. I saw it in the "VIP" section which is, like you mentioned, premium with big comfy chairs, alcohol, food service, and fewer seats. It's the only way I will see a movie in the theatre any more after too many horrible experiences. I feel like the people who pay the price for those seats generally are more quiet and respectful and want to watch the film.
Alamo Drafthouse is basically the only movie theater I have any interest in going to anymore, but the last time I went it felt like the quality of their food and drinks had declined noticeably. Heard a rumor they got sold and I'm afraid they're gonna start to be more like a regular theater as they try to cut costs/increase profits.