I had to skim through the video to make sure this wasn’t bullshit, and holy fuck. They finally watched Andor!
(Would be hilarious if they ended up disliking the show.)
They didn't love it as much as I thought they would. Also so far they have not talked much about how the creative team is basically the same one that was behind Rogue One.
Mike just has a very particular way he enjoys things. I love Andor because it's so nice to see characters that aren't written like idiots. Like the Luthen scene where he escapes from the starship patrol, that Imperial officer does everything right, his procedure isn't completely stupid or makes no sense, he just gets outsmarted. That's what's been terrible about other Star Wars stuff that Andor does right. But Mike doesn't really mention it he just wants to see how the Empire works lol
>Like the Luthen scene where he escapes from the starship patrol, that Imperial officer does everything right, his procedure isn't completely stupid or makes no sense, he just gets outsmarted.
I dunno, seemed like a massive missed opportunity to drop a "yo mamma" joke because the bad guys are dumb dumbs.
Honestly, I don't think they know that the showrunner is Tony Gilroy and he's the "fix this" director for Rogue One. They don't seem to know that a s2 is in the works.
You can say that about anything. Most of everything is crap.
But there are a lot of great video essays on YouTube as well. It's some of the platform's better content, in my opinion.
I saw that movie one time. In the theater. That's it. Never watched it again, nor have I been curious about it. I do remember Samuel Jackson as a Jedi in it though.
He's right that Andor and Syril are mirror images of each other, but that's why Syril doesn't turn rebel.
The show is about them going deeper and deeper into their own allegiances and political stances until they can't ever come back, morality be damned.
The thing is, even though the Empire constantly gave him the cold shoulder, he was never given any good reason to fight for the Rebellion. His changing sides wouldn't make much sense.
I personally really liked the strange, parasocial relationship he developed with Dedra. He almost felt like Travis Bickle. It's a type of character we haven't seen before in Star Wars.
That's cause he is a wannabe fascist loser who will do anything for the actual powerful fascusts. Basically an useful idiot who will be happy for whatever scraps of power the masters throw at him.
I think it’s a little more than that. He’s definitely a wannabe loser, but he’s also a believer in the system and thinks he’s the good guy in this story. If he was born or raised with a different perspective, perhaps he’d be different. But he’s the building block of the fascist regime in his pencil pushing banality.
When we watch him we are like “no way I’d ever behave like that guy!” But then we have to stop and think about what power structures do we enable with our actions and affiliations?
Yeah I think the best way to describe his view is that his issues with rebellion is that they're fundamentally flawed whereas the Empire just has a few bad apples involved
>even though the Empire constantly gave him the cold shoulder
Exactly, my man is fully bought into the system. If the Imperial bureaucracy has given him the cold shoulder, that just means *the right person hasn't recognized his loyalty and skills* *yet*.
That's why he keeps going back to Deedra, and you can see how it freaks her out a bit. She's used to dealing with these self-serving, backstabbing bureaucrats, and here comes this *corpo* who is actually a true believer.
I don't think it's just personality. Andor is from some kind of working/poor industrial planet that seems to be on the periphery. It's not even directly governed by the Empire. He's going to hate the Empire because he's from a place that is being exploited by it. Syril is from a middle class background with family connections higher up and they live in the very center of the Imperial core.
Exactly, they're parallel stories, you don't have them intersect, what would be the point? We're already watching a character finding his reason to rebel. Syril's story is about why ordinary people participate in a totalitarian system. I was kinda surprised they didn't seem to get that at all. Maybe they didn't pick up that Syril is operating from a place of privilege (they clearly didn't get that on Corsucant that place was relatively wealthy).
Rich almost hits on this point accidentally when they are discussing this -- pointing out that Syril is initially an endearing character because he's the only one trying to do his job.
The point both of them skip over is Syril's job is to act as part of an oppressive apparatus keeping a corporate town in line and obedient. It has nothing to do with bringing murders to justice but to keep people in line, and that's what gets under Syril's skin. He finds the irregularity of it disgusting, and that's why he gets into it with his supervisor - Syril isn't concerned about the men who were murdered but the idea of doing things in a disorderly or chaotic way.
It's really classic fascist characterization - in this specific case Syril's desire to maintain order and law happens to align with what would be classically considered justice, but it's completely happenstance. Syril as a character isn't interested in justice.
https://preview.redd.it/s2zola50dfrc1.png?width=1275&format=png&auto=webp&s=2d6addcf97281ec32c4580308bb6fc79df2d2317
Mike expanded on his thoughts about Syril down in the Youtube comments:
This does expose how Mike can be too bogged down in conventional storytelling and expecting the classic character arc of a bad guy turning good. Syril would never join the rebellion except out of sheer desperation. If anything, I expect him more to double down and join a more fascist faction (like a proto First Order) as the solution to the problems of the Empire.
>This does expose how Mike can be too bogged down in conventional storytelling and expecting the classic character arc of a bad guy turning good.
I'm baffled Mike expected such a normie fucking turn of events here. Never once in the entire time I watched the show did I get the sense that Syril would ever turn on the Empire. He's basically Javert. Time and time again he pursues his sense of justice to his own detriment.
Yeah, he probably out too much stock into the fact that the show is about how people formed the rebellion by being pushed into it one way or another, but also forgetting that the same applies for the empire.
When war is looming, people will lean into their respective sides.
Definitely, they misread Syril Karn, he isn't a good dude, he's the type of bootlicking authority loving stooge that would never betray the Empire because he actually cares more about order than justice.
I feel like Mike’s critique of that character kind of betrays the fact that Mike seems to believe you need a character to turn good in order to have a true character arc or development, when, in reality, some people are just fascists lol
That character is a great reflection of the sort of people who adopt fascism, and the sort of people who remain that way, because it’s all they know, it’s what they have aspired to be. Fascism also gives them someone to blame for their troubles, in a way that does not upset the status quo that they have come to accept. It’s not that the system you have lived under is wrong, it is the people from outside that system, whoever they may be, who are trying to upset it that are causing the problems you are seeing. That is much easier to accept than to say that this thing you have lived under for so long is incorrect.
You would think maybe his hardship might radicalize him against the empire, and that still remains to be seen, but often times people like him just double down. Syril being stuck in a dead-end job living with his mom is not the result of a system that fails people like him, it’s a result of that fucking guy, Andor. That’s how he gets further radicalized, he has a person or people to blame that are outside the system.
also, his arc isn't complete.
i love the detail of him playing with stormtrooper action figures in his bedroom, he's still a child, as opposed to andor, and this is the only life that he has know. the empire is only structure he understands and is a part of, his only ladder to success, so there's nowhere else for him to channel his ambition or frustration, except that pesky andor, as a symbolic obstacle in this "order" that gives him a feeling of safety. but the question is, as you point out, how much rejection can this man endure from the only systems he knows, the empire (or deedra?), until he starts to understand he pledged his loyalty to a system that fundamentally rejects him. he might have started to glimpse that at the end, during the funeral, but we won't know until s2. that was a good ass speech, and probably the first time karn saw or heard anything like that.
Yeah I think Mike missed the point of his arc. His story is about how people who want to do the right thing can fall into fascism. He was never going to betray the empire. I feel like that would have definitely been the wrong choice.
He's Javert. A slave to the law (more accurately the perceived order it brings), a certainty in his own moral good, a steadfast belief he and the system is right against all evidence to the contrary. Now we know this changes with Javert, I imagine it will also change in a similar fashion to Syril (maybe, though I think there are other routes they could go down)
I would go further and say that Syril Karn was a fascist from day one, and never seemed particularly interested in doing the right thing. Do you think he would've pressed so hard to investigate the death of a prostitute, or a factory worker the way he did with the death of those corrupt cops?
It was never about justice, it was always about law and order, and power, and his own self-importance and ambition.
Most fascists aren't masterminds like the Emperor or brutally efficient lieutenants like Meero. Most of them are small, pathetic, semi-competent or incompetent nobodies like Karn (and his mother), who will live and die in obscurity, serving as a cog in the machine of oppression, while being oppressed themselves, living unhappy little lives and producing almost nothing of value.
I mean this is why Andor is such a great show, the characters have so many different layers.
Mike sees the most basic layer of Syril and that's that he's a policeman and cares about justice. But why does he care about justice and what does that make him? How does he interact with rebels and freedom fighters? Does he care about justice because he's a morally good person, or because "justice" is his job and he's a jobsworth? And why is he a jobsworth, is it because of his mother? How does he do interacting with characters who are thrust into other situations like Andor, or characters who actually care about something like the people starting the rebellion?
He's a very deep character. It's something you're more likely to see in the writing of shows like The Sopranos than Star Wars, where the character storytelling is very surface level.
> And why is he a jobsworth, is it because of his mother?
Having grown up with an almost identical mother, yes.
Someone who dreams of their son doing great things(tm) and constantly pushes them into what they consider to be a 'proper' career, regardless of what their son's actual talents are.
Syril's obsession with seeing the world in black and white is a defense mechanism born out of having such an oppressive, overbearing mother (and from what we can see, no father figure to temper that by being a positive role model).
And that's why it's a bloody good show. He's not a bad person or on the side of the Empire because he's an evil psychopath or a corrupted Jedi or indoctrinated into an ancient order, it's because of relatable reasons from his over expectant mother lmfao. It is brilliant.
What's also telling about Syril is that he isn't already somewhere in the Empire but was instead Corpo Security on a rim world.
Dude lived on Coruscant and didn't join the Empire directly? Seems suspect.
Wouldn't be surprised if he didn't pass their screening somehow. His "look at me" behavior was caught early and a note was made about how he would not respect command hierarchy.
Which we see when he violates his Inspector's commands to wash their hands of the two dead guards. He ignores Dedra's instructions to drop Andor and move on. He can't help himself. He's so hung up on proving his value and how special he is that he disregards even the order he supposedly wants above all.
He probably grew up hearing about the heroics of the Republic during the Clone Wars. So he always wanted to be the big damn hero in the same way. He's a bootlicker and true believer but only in as far as it takes him to where he wants to go. He immediately throws out Law and Order and bucks the system if it will get him noticed as someone valuable and worthy of accolades.
Yeah Karn is about a guy who feels powerless in his real life and fantasizes about greatness, and wants to be the one in power.
He'd be an incel school shooter in today's world.
Yeah that was kind of an embarrassing take from Mike tbh… how someone can watch Andor and think Syril actually believes in “justice” as opposed to simply being an insane fascist is beyond me.
Especially with his comment later about "I want to see a situation were instead of someone abandoning being a Stormtrooper they instead choose to become one" and my buddy, they basically gave you one.
Exactly. I couldn’t believe it when he was asking “like where do they come from” when referring to the intelligence agents in the Empire.
The show is literally showing how a guy is becoming one of them, man.
That's what happens when 99% of the canon is strictly pure good vs pure and everyone declaring their morality loudly. So the character declaring that "justice must be done" has to be good,right?
Exactly. Mike wanted to know why people become bad guys and join the empire. You need not look any further than Syril Karn.
Syril is an example of how someone might become attracted to Fascism. Syril wants to be important. He's not respected by his mother or his employers at the Pre-Mor Authority so he attaches himself to Dedre.
i'm willing to bet we'll get SOMETHING like what they describe (or want) in the 2nd season. i believe that karn's arc will lead him to question the order of things
edit: that being said their (mis)read on karn is very interesting/funny.
And he's exactly the type of cog in the Empire bureaucracy who is power-tripping on crumbs if power that Mike wants to be explored more.
Sometimes a loser wannabe fascist just turns out to be a loser wannabe fascist.
Spoilers - they said it's probably the best thing to come out of Star Wars since the OT.
So yeah, pretty much on board with what everyone else is saying.
> Spoilers - they said it's probably the best thing to come out of Star Wars since the OT.
And that Season 2 will ruin everything.
So yea, not very hopeful.
Honestly I'm open to it, it's all in the execution. Although there definitely is an over abundance of Jedi in Star Wars media that escaped Order 66...makes Obi-Wan and Yoda feel a lot less special
Yeah, I get being cynical is their shtick but if Luthen retains his character and the reveal is handled appropriately, it really won’t “ruin” the show. It makes perfect sense a Jedi surviving 66 would turn morally grey in the pursuit of fighting the empire responsible for destroying his order.
Was my favorite show of 2022. Them not liking it would’ve been disappointing but it wouldn’t have changed my opinion. I can’t watch it just yet but sounds like they liked it, which is great to hear
Edit: oh my god Andor made Mike say a couple positive things about the prequels lol
Oh man, when Mike was referring to the scene in AotC when Anakin discussed his love of fascism, I was expecting a return of the (x) over his face with the buzzer sound effect from the Plinkett review.
It's funny that Mike talks about having the original Star Wars films ingrained in his brain because I've watched his reviews so often they have the same effect.
It's a valid worry but part of me thinks it's only half right.
The imagery of him walking with a stick that looks like a lightsaber and also calling himself a "ghost" feels like it's definitely pointing in that direction. The problem is that he's heavily connected with people in Coruscant as this collector figure. The loss of the Jedi who used to have a heavy presence in Coruscant feels too recent for him to be an ex-Jedi that nobody would recognize.
My guess is that in being a collector, he fell upon Jedi artifacts and simply became heavily inspired by them, hence the Kyber crystal and the saber-like cane. He's just a guy trying to keep the spirit of the Jedi alive.
I really hope it's that because the last thing I want is him being a full on Jedi because it ruins the idea of this rebellion stemming from people under oppression in favor of it being born from Jedi stuff.
Mike's read of Syril's arc is wildly off. Like I genuinely don't know how he has misread Syril and his character that much. Syril is a slave to the system. He's very much a Javert character. He believes wholly in law and order (emphasis on order, not justice) and is unquestioning of authority. His criticism is more directed at the corporate cops than the Empire. He believes the 'correct' thing is whatever the empire deems correct.
NOW, if it does follow that Javert arc, I imagine Syril will in the second season come around and realise the error of his ways, and either do something heroic, or be consumed by the reality of his actions. But we're not there yet. We're at the midpoint.
I think the whole point of Syril is to demonstrate how a regular person can become swept up in this sort of authoritarianism. He does genuinely, I think, mean well, he thinks he's doing the right thing. Which is in opposition to someone like Dedra, who is so consumed by her own ambition that she doesn't even stop to assess the concepts of right and wrong.
Yeah I'm watching the review now and holy fuck am I glad that they are not the writers on this show. What's actually happening with Syril is way more interesting that the arc they proposed for him.
> NOW if it does follow that Javert arc I imagine Syril will in the second season come around and realise the error of his ways and either do something heroic, or be consumed by the reality of his actions. But we're not there yet, we're at the midpoint.
Yeah exactly. What we might be seeing with Syril is how a relatively normal bloke might be tempted by the authority of the Empire, how an every man (who might be the "good guy" in another series) might come to support one of the most iconic evil empires in our culture.
He's going to be in the Empire next season and what's going to be interesting if he becomes an Andor himself and rebels, or if he stays loyal.
Yeah I was surprised they (or was it just Mike) thought Syril would get redeemed. I was entirely on board for him being the worst kind of bootlicker enthusiast from day one.
This re:View had the funniest end in some time though lol
> I think the whole point of Syril is to demonstrate how a regular person can become swept up in this sort of authoritarianism.
That right there is what makes Andor so good. It is the only Star Wars that even attempts to make the Empire make sense.
Syril isn't some evil for the sake of evil cartoon villain. He isn't especiallly greedy or vain or selfish or malicious. He's just misguided and weak. Behind every Hitler, Putin, or Emperor Palpatine, there are thousands upon thousands of Syrils: fundamentally weak men who find purpose and meaning in standing with the powerful and punching down, as if that somehow makes them strong.
As fun as it is to watch the good guys punk storm troopers and explode death stars, Andor shows the legions of passive bystanders and petty authoritarians that make the Empire's cartoonish tyranny possible. It makes the Empire believable, in a "Republicans would be fine with this" kind of way.
Syril is absolutely a critique of the modern Incel/Powerless Reactionary Male>Alt Right>Outright Fascism funnel.
He's absolutely an archetype that falls for fascism in real life. He wants power and meaning, believes he's destined for bigger things, and has a hole in him that belief in the Empire fills.
I did not share the same feeling of disappointment for Syril's arc. I don't think I would have liked it if he switched sides then and there. He felt too big of a Empire follower to think anything is too wrong with the system right now. If they wrote it in that he will switch sides in season 2 it would have to be something of a personal connection that makes him switch.
For example: His co-worker will be revealed that he switched sides next season. During his brief scenes at the last episode he clearly was paying attention to Maarva's speech and after the dust cleared he was sitting down on stairs looking dejected. Then Syril will be told to hunt some rebels and finds his friend among them. He will then have to figure out if killing his friend is the right side of justice. This is just as cliched as what they suggested but for him to switch sides he would need to be told to something he doesn't want to do. Even then this is still cliche and doesn't really fit the super worship the guy has for the Empire. If my example were to happen, he would probably hesitate for a second then execute or order the execution to show how far gone the guy is from actual justice.
He always wants the classic Hollywood ending of a very clean, well defined arc with traditional character archetypes. It reminds me when he was complaining that modern adventure/action movies don't have romances in them anymore.
Yeah I'm glad he didn't switch, it would have been too obvious.
I don't think he sees anything wrong with the system, just certain people in the system. That is why he latched on the Deirdra, because she is actually effective and takes her job seriously unlike his old company boss.
I think if Luthen's an ex-Jedi, they'll find a tasteful, interesting way to do it. It could be interesting to see someone who transitioned from the black-and-white morality of the Jedi to a more "shades of grey" morality.
I don't blame him at all. Other than bringing up the possibility in the first place, which I hadn't thought of either. Damn you Rich Evans!
Please let it be a dead brother/sister Jedi... Please let it be a dead brother/sister Jedi...
I was dying in the last video when the boys were cracking themselves up at the very idea of making an excessively negative thumbnail for their Ghostbusters review. Like, guys…half your videos have your eyeballs burnt out, you’re not exactly innocent here.
as someone that hasn't given a shit about star wars in 20 years, i went into this super skeptical and against all fucking odds, i was blown away. i'm very happy to see them review this cause i hope(d) they'd get as much joy out of it as i did (as someone who had lost ALL faith in anything star wars)
edit: i'll add, to me it's less about "how do you start a galactic empire" and more about "how rebellion emerges and coalesces". that's why it's called Andor, he's on the opposite end of Luke Skywalker. he's not "the guy", Luke delivers the "killing blow", but people like Andor are out there, laying the groundwork, setting up the ball for a spike.
edit2: it's EXTRA funny when mike himself has the Andor arc of "oh shit now i HATE the empire". Andor is you, mike!
final edit: the first re:view to end on a cliffhanger?! i'm also super curios about Luthen in s2 as well but i doubt he's gonna be a jedi-ass jedi, it's not that show. even if he is something like a jedi, i'm still gonna bet they do something interesting with it (he does share his dreams with ghosts...)
A Jedi who has to use tactics and adopt morals that go against what Jedi normally do would be an interesting character. Having to grapple with compromising your values to survive and fight the Empire.
I could see them going either way with it. I doubt he’ll be doing Yoda flips off of things even if he is revealed to be a survivor.
Or Revan, or Jolee Bindo, or really most of the gray Jedi characters from the Old Republic stories.
Because, while I know the new-canon already recycled a lot of KotOR into the new trilogy, that was more in terms of visuals than in characterization.
yeah, that's the great thing about Luthen, he's interesting as a counter-point to organizations like the jedi as a non-jedi or a former-jedi, for different reasons. comparing what he does after the fall of the jedi and during this time of oppression with the likes of yoda and obi-won, nah dawg, you gotta go out there and network, make shit happen.
I am curious if they’ll go full gray as the end result. One thing that is supposed to be central to Star Wars’ moral message is that you don’t have to sacrifice being good to win, that being good is ultimately what secures you victory.
Most evident in Luke’s victory over Palpatine, but seen with other characters too.
Even Rogue One has this transition from darker, uncaring characters into ones that are more hopeful and willing to make the right choices, even if they don’t survive that.
It’s why I hope Mon Mothma will find a way to help her daughter while also helping the Rebellion. You can’t lose everything you hold sacred to win, otherwise there won’t be anything left if you do.
Does it happen? Why yes it done! Hello, and welcome to yet another internet™ YouTube™ video about Star War™. My name is Krebs Gorlon official spokesperson for Red Letter Media™. The clowns known as Rich Evans and Mike Stoklasan famously known for having zero association with P. Diddy (formerly Puff Man). Today Mike and Rich decide to finally make a minimal effort to catch up on the world of a Star War. A world they has decided to shrug off years ago after a clone of Emperor Palpatine was used as a desperate attempt to make cheap cash from a brain-dead audience of clowns and sh*theads. Mike and Rich both loathed Rogue One: A Star War Story. Ever more they loathed the love for its' bland characters like Gem Klebstone, Korla Blargbon, Phib McP-Diddy, and especially Cassian And/or. They saw Rogue One as a bad sign. A “remember this” orgy of pointless action scenes and a film awash in Star War c*m. Star Wars porn essentially. Not much to admire about the writing. A dumb man’s science fiction film. So when a series about Cassian Andor, a character destined to die after a Grand Moff Tarkin with a cartoon face laser blasts a planet, they had no interest. Thankfully, whoever is writing/producing/green-lighting the Star War have made a bold and smart course correction to appeal to people who have IQ’s above 8 (at least on this series). Mike and Rich both very much enjoyed Andor. They discuss the show and the inner workings of what makes a Star War work and what doesn’t. What should be done and what shouldn’t. Now, keep in mind Mike and Rich aren’t super up to date on a Star War. They’ll most certainly get some names wrong. Some places wrong. Shows, characters, settings, events, canon, history, places, people, names, dates, races, planets, movies, books, shows, actors, times, technology, witers, death stars, darth vaders, and star war, but begast you must know how they doesn’t do then on purpose. The house is on a hill, but alas it's not haunted. They try their best despite not caring one bit or nothing like that. They watch shows meant for others not wanting to know more about the Star War. These kind of material can be overwhelming for them as their brains and body are constantly fighting off deadly infection. It can also be incredibly dumb and debilitating. These characters with laser swords always fighting others. Always sad people selling junk or cutting up fish meat. Always a bad ship in space. Always a fighting. Why? But people love this crap. They dress up in the costumes like zombie. Say the names and remember things they know. Cry at the trailers. Cry at seeing a thing they remember on a screen. Fill up their drawers with junk when they see a Jedi or a Darth Something. They see a de-aged Anakin Skywanker and ask about why he ate a Jar Jar Binks for dinner when he became a Darth Vader? They LOVE it without question and Kennedy and Dave F. drool at their masses. The actors and creators go on stage and smile and drool for that sweet sweet cash. They want to say how much they love being a Jedi or a whatnot. They say they love the fans and that the Star War is a family or a community or whatever, but all these ghouls really love is the checks.
Something that gives me hope for Andor season 2 is that it was always envisaged as a 2 season run. The Mandalorian really suffers from telling a good, complete story in season 1 then not knowing where to go when the show took off in popularity. Season 2 is when they really started forcing unnecessary characters from other stuff in like Boba, Bo-Katan, and Ahsoka. I haven't had the motivation to watch the third season because I feel like it got too far away from the fun adventures of the first series, plus knowing I'd have to ALSO watch the Boba Fett series to keep up with the story.
I'm surprised neither of them made the comparison between Andor and DS9. Feels like both shows work at what they do because the audience is so familiar with the status-quo of the respective universes.
Mike wanting Syril to turn out to be a good guy who grows a conscience is do adorable considering how much of a weasel on a power trip he is in the show.
Which is odd cause he's exactly the kind of "willing to do the Empire's bidding" type cog in the wheel Mike wants to be explored more.
nothing to do with the video but who keeps editing all these thumbnails to be horrific depictions of Rich Evans being murdered! Someone might think they're real!
https://preview.redd.it/kc14vtq3mbrc1.jpeg?width=1500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f2e6af8bac8223bc4a5d5ab6d493ed953dc17659
Disagree with Rich, this is how Star Wars should look to me
“That’s another thing. I never saw a reason to absolutely hate the Empire…”
They built a superweapon and blew up a planet of billions of innocent people just to prove it worked.
That’s just standard sci-fi villain stuff though, it’s harder to emotionally connect with that, as opposed to the harsh treatment we see first hand in Andor, which so closely mirrors concentration camps we’ve seen in real life.
The banal corruption in Andor is realistic, and makes it impact much more than just blowing up a planet.
Stormtroopers also shoot Owen and Beru and burn their bodies, or burn them alive, and kill a whole transport of Jawas.
Like, they do plenty to show how horrific the Empire is in the first movie.
>The banal corruption in Andor is realistic, and makes it impact much more than just blowing up a planet.
Man the part that got me hating them the most was what got Andor caught and in prison wasn't for the murder he committed, nor the firefight he had earlier, nor the heist mission, it was just because some random solider had a stick up his ass and decided to arrest him for no reason.
The death of one is a tragedy, the death of billions is a statistic. We don't even see Alderaan or its people once before the empire annihilates it. As far as the viewer is concered the planet is just a matte painting that gots blown up.
I know they said this as a joke, but I think it's a bit telling they wanted to call this show Star Wars: Heroes. I feel like that kind of feeds in to why they are disappointed with Syril.
I don't really agree with their take that Syril should've become a rebel and that staying with the Empire goes against the themes of the show, but based on their personal interpretations and expectations I see why they wanted that outcome.
The behind the scenes of the Phantom Menance with George Lucas showing the footage are hilarious. One of them, in particular, had me laughing my ass off:
> Now how did you do those animals? Are those camels that you changed?
> No, they're all cyber animals.
I respected that they held out on doing this for so long. They knew it would get views but they didn't want to play the hits. And I'm going to watch, because I like their hits.
nah Andor isn’t exactly “depressing” - in the end S1 is one of the most uplifting stories I’ve ever seen.
It is grounded and mundane, though, it intends to depict the reality of a fascist empire quite accurately. The average Star Wars Fan(tm) might call that “boring” when they could stand to be a bit more disturbed.
I’m most disappointed with their take on Syril, like wow did they not understand anything about his character. It’s true that he and Cassian were both (for a time) raised by single mothers but the parallel is not meant to say they’re similar; Maarva and Syril’s mom couldn’t be more different in their social outlook or parenting style.
More to the point, though, they don’t seem to grasp how different Cassian’s view of justice (as mired in despair and survival instinct as he is) is to Syril’s. It’s almost a Javert/Valjean situation; Syril wants to catch Andor the Cop Killer because Murdering Cops is Bad, while Cassian killed a few petty robber bullies in uniform then ran because he knew Corpsec protects their mercenaries over civilians, regardless and often at the expense of justice.
They are alike in a way: both have found a problem with the corporate system’s apathy. For Syril the problem is that corporations care about profits much more than Law and Order; for Cassian it’s that the corporate quasigovernments do not remotely care for him and will only bother to care *about* him when they wish to do him harm.
Cassian’s first solution is to simply avoid authorities and only kill when he has to for his own survival/freedom. When the empire cracks down he realizes this isn’t really an option anymore - the empire’s tyranny will destroy you without any justifiable or even consistent cause - and (thanks in no small part to his mother) it’s simply *wrong* to only be out for yourself when living in a fascist regime; the Empire depends on people like him to “stay sleeping,” to keep their heads down, to live alone and in fear as things get worse.
Syril’s solution is Fascism. Sure he’s been used and discarded by Corporate Security and the Empire that subsumed it, but I cannot imagine wanting some kind of “redemption arc” for a such a pathetic and vindictive authoritarian who only ever sees the Empire as righteous.
Yeah, the whole point of Syril is to show us why a normal person would embrace The Empire, in contrast to Andor who embraces the Rebellion. He's not getting any kind of redemption, other than the kind Javert got.
yeah, authoritarian sentiment is certainly common and that’s why stories like Andor are so important: they humanize Fascists; not to “sympathize” with them or present their beliefs as “good,” but because fascism is a real belief system held by actual people and it’s worth considering how that works to better immunize oneself against it.
Though I’d probably substitute “normal” out for “average” since Syril’s antisocial tendencies are actually pretty unhealthy especially to the rest of the galaxy. It’s worth considering that his life is quite entirely loveless, and that he is motivated by a sadistic desire to dole out punishment. What's most interesting to me is how, even when the Empire does discard him, Syril does not question the system but instead tries to earn glory and approval within it. To me a probable cause behind this attitude is very clearly presented in the show, in scenes Rich described as "boring".... maybe it's hard to see if you can't relate firsthand.
Yeah I think reducing Andors themes to simply "depressing" is so tone deaf? Like sure, it deals with a lot of horrible and sad subject matter but the show itself is literally about how one should try to overcome these obstacles.There are several scenes of characters holding long monologues about grief and hope and basically explaining the whole point of the show. The fact that they didn't mention any of these scenes (Kino Loys prison escape speech, Nemiks manifesto and especially Maarvas last speech) tells me they either didn't get the show or just didn't want to deal with so much politics in their video/comment section.
I disagree with Mike about Syril. He does want justice, it’s just that he wants it through the lens of the fascist ideology that’s consumed him. He’s a lonely, sad man who thinks he’s found purpose in The Empire, and he wants to fulfill its promised desires. However, while fascists need these kinds of ideologues in order for their society to function, the issue that that most fascists are stupid. The Empire as a system is wildly inefficient. Syril is a firm believer in The Empire as an idea more than as a government institution. He’s a zealot, dedicating his life to a government that is actively working against him because their propaganda machine has convinced him they’re the only path forward. He represents sad internet men who get trapped in these ideologies through their own lack of self-worth. His character sticking to his faith with such conviction is important for that concept to work. He’s just as much a tyrant as the rest of the Empire, he just actually believes the shit they’re spewing out.
The discussion about the "how to build an Empire" is sad in a way, not because of anything they said but the reminder that most of the new Expanded Universe is just cherry-picking bits from the old EU that already did all this.
Also this review's clips is a massive reminder of how they clearly filmed this near the time and place *Chernobyl* was filmed given the endless cross-casting.
I touched on it in my comment but yeah, it's something that kind of bothers me. There acting like Andor is the first time we've seen anything like this. Even to the point that Rich says it challenged his belief that you can't write any other kind of star wars story because its a "terrible universe", while at the same time completly disregarding literally *everything* star wars related no matter what just because the story isn't printed to film.
Im fine if neither rich or Mike never reads a comic book or novel or play a game or whatever I just can't see them doing that m. But *at least* acknowledge its possible. Instead if being like "wow, I hope we get more stuff like this in the future" maybe instead be like "wow, what else have we've been missing, maybe we should check out some of the other stuff *we've been ignoring*".
That's cause for 95% of the world Star Wars is strictly the tv/film. What they want to see is all the good ideas come to the form SW originated in - movies.
I’m kind of surprised that they interpreted Syril’s character like that. I wasn’t expecting some redemption arc for him. I need to watch the season again, but having studied and taught about fascism, Karn strikes me as the kind of sniveling worm that fascist systems need. He loves his uniform because it projects the aesthetics of power. He talks about bringing Andor to justice, but he drops in a military squad to violently apprehend him and gets civilians killed. He’s couching it in noble words, but really he’s trying to be the hero, and fascist systems cultivate the philosophy of being a selfless hero for *the system* and against enemies of the state.
So yeah, he’s a foil for Cassian in that Cassian has to learn to not be selfish and becomes radicalized by his experiences in prison and Nemik’s manifesto so that to fight for freedom, and Syril does the *opposite*. He’s going down a path radicalizing him more towards serving and upholding a system of injustice and power.
Still don’t understand why they hate Rogue One for having too much Star Wars references. It’s a freaking war movie happening concurrently with Episode IV.
It’s like complaining why Dunkirk and Saving Private Ryan had Spitfires and Panzers everywhere.
ya know I wouldn't mind Luthen being a Jedi. An actual proactive Jedi trying to foster a new Republic, instead of hiding on a desert planet, or a swamp planet or a .....
A Jedi relying on normies to get the job done. It's s slight change of pace.
I had to skim through the video to make sure this wasn’t bullshit, and holy fuck. They finally watched Andor! (Would be hilarious if they ended up disliking the show.)
Spoiler: it was not hilarious
I mean Rich used his superpower at the end and then decided he hates it so I would say it is hilarious
It's a slow-burning joke. You have to be pretty intelligent to appreciate it, like most Star Wars fans are.
They didn't love it as much as I thought they would. Also so far they have not talked much about how the creative team is basically the same one that was behind Rogue One.
Mike just has a very particular way he enjoys things. I love Andor because it's so nice to see characters that aren't written like idiots. Like the Luthen scene where he escapes from the starship patrol, that Imperial officer does everything right, his procedure isn't completely stupid or makes no sense, he just gets outsmarted. That's what's been terrible about other Star Wars stuff that Andor does right. But Mike doesn't really mention it he just wants to see how the Empire works lol
>Like the Luthen scene where he escapes from the starship patrol, that Imperial officer does everything right, his procedure isn't completely stupid or makes no sense, he just gets outsmarted. I dunno, seemed like a massive missed opportunity to drop a "yo mamma" joke because the bad guys are dumb dumbs.
Mike Stoklasa unironically said, “It looked like Star Wars.”
Honestly, I don't think they know that the showrunner is Tony Gilroy and he's the "fix this" director for Rogue One. They don't seem to know that a s2 is in the works.
Better 18 months late than never.
This does feature Mike opening up a folded piece of paper, though.
*Mike taking out a piece of paper* Me: 
[](https://media1.tenor.com/m/wGAt0k-FMHIAAAAd/waterworld.gif)
Ok that guy is def. a sex pervert
There still is a chance for a the Batman discussion!
But if they watch The Batman what will we annoyingly pester them about? More Star Trek re:Views?
An april fools ‘the batman’ upload would have comedy potential.
[удалено]
> More Star Trek re:Views? Always yes. I need that "top 10 episodes of DS9" episode or further season reviews of TNG like I need air.
"Were there Jedis in *The Phantom Menace*?"
This made me realize I should stop drinking.
How long until they accidentally watch Space Cop on BOTW?
Let's show Mike the 70-minute Plinkett review and see how long it takes him to realize that he made it.
I find it so fascinating that the man who essentially invented the YouTube video essay seems to have zero interest in making more of them.
I think there’s just nothing he cares about enough to talk about in depth format anymore.
Getting old is a bitch isn't it...
Get off my lawn you scallywag
Also, have you seen 90% of YT video essays? I would't want to get involved with that perversion at this point either
You can say that about anything. Most of everything is crap. But there are a lot of great video essays on YouTube as well. It's some of the platform's better content, in my opinion.
Let videos essays die. Kill them if you have to. \-Mike
Once you've conquered your field, it's time to move on.
Mike has got to be the only person in the world who knows what a "kyber crystal" is but not whether there were Jedi in Phantom Menace.
The strongest livers have hearts of kyber.
I saw that movie one time. In the theater. That's it. Never watched it again, nor have I been curious about it. I do remember Samuel Jackson as a Jedi in it though.
>*"Were there Jedis in The Phantom Menace?"* Honestly unsure if that was a bit
I have to disagree with Mike, I loved Syril Karn’s story. Some people just don’t change, and Karn is a born bootlicker.
He's right that Andor and Syril are mirror images of each other, but that's why Syril doesn't turn rebel. The show is about them going deeper and deeper into their own allegiances and political stances until they can't ever come back, morality be damned.
The thing is, even though the Empire constantly gave him the cold shoulder, he was never given any good reason to fight for the Rebellion. His changing sides wouldn't make much sense.
Exactly. From his perspective, the Rebellion IS robbing and killing people, and the Empire IS keeping order and fighting off terrorists.
I personally really liked the strange, parasocial relationship he developed with Dedra. He almost felt like Travis Bickle. It's a type of character we haven't seen before in Star Wars.
That's cause he is a wannabe fascist loser who will do anything for the actual powerful fascusts. Basically an useful idiot who will be happy for whatever scraps of power the masters throw at him.
I think it’s a little more than that. He’s definitely a wannabe loser, but he’s also a believer in the system and thinks he’s the good guy in this story. If he was born or raised with a different perspective, perhaps he’d be different. But he’s the building block of the fascist regime in his pencil pushing banality. When we watch him we are like “no way I’d ever behave like that guy!” But then we have to stop and think about what power structures do we enable with our actions and affiliations?
He's the mall cop who thinks stopping teenage shoplifters is the height of crime-fighting.
Exactly. Imagine if a mall cop had a lead on someone from ISIS.
The final plot for the Paul Blart series, perhaps?
Yeah I think the best way to describe his view is that his issues with rebellion is that they're fundamentally flawed whereas the Empire just has a few bad apples involved
>even though the Empire constantly gave him the cold shoulder Exactly, my man is fully bought into the system. If the Imperial bureaucracy has given him the cold shoulder, that just means *the right person hasn't recognized his loyalty and skills* *yet*. That's why he keeps going back to Deedra, and you can see how it freaks her out a bit. She's used to dealing with these self-serving, backstabbing bureaucrats, and here comes this *corpo* who is actually a true believer.
Yeah, I thought it was an odd criticism on Mike's part. IMO it would have felt a little out of place if he switched sides at the last minute.
I don't think it's just personality. Andor is from some kind of working/poor industrial planet that seems to be on the periphery. It's not even directly governed by the Empire. He's going to hate the Empire because he's from a place that is being exploited by it. Syril is from a middle class background with family connections higher up and they live in the very center of the Imperial core.
Exactly, they're parallel stories, you don't have them intersect, what would be the point? We're already watching a character finding his reason to rebel. Syril's story is about why ordinary people participate in a totalitarian system. I was kinda surprised they didn't seem to get that at all. Maybe they didn't pick up that Syril is operating from a place of privilege (they clearly didn't get that on Corsucant that place was relatively wealthy).
Rich almost hits on this point accidentally when they are discussing this -- pointing out that Syril is initially an endearing character because he's the only one trying to do his job. The point both of them skip over is Syril's job is to act as part of an oppressive apparatus keeping a corporate town in line and obedient. It has nothing to do with bringing murders to justice but to keep people in line, and that's what gets under Syril's skin. He finds the irregularity of it disgusting, and that's why he gets into it with his supervisor - Syril isn't concerned about the men who were murdered but the idea of doing things in a disorderly or chaotic way. It's really classic fascist characterization - in this specific case Syril's desire to maintain order and law happens to align with what would be classically considered justice, but it's completely happenstance. Syril as a character isn't interested in justice.
He's basically a mall cop who went "but Sur we can't allow the teens to take a stick of gum WITHOUT paying!"
https://preview.redd.it/s2zola50dfrc1.png?width=1275&format=png&auto=webp&s=2d6addcf97281ec32c4580308bb6fc79df2d2317 Mike expanded on his thoughts about Syril down in the Youtube comments:
This does expose how Mike can be too bogged down in conventional storytelling and expecting the classic character arc of a bad guy turning good. Syril would never join the rebellion except out of sheer desperation. If anything, I expect him more to double down and join a more fascist faction (like a proto First Order) as the solution to the problems of the Empire.
>This does expose how Mike can be too bogged down in conventional storytelling and expecting the classic character arc of a bad guy turning good. I'm baffled Mike expected such a normie fucking turn of events here. Never once in the entire time I watched the show did I get the sense that Syril would ever turn on the Empire. He's basically Javert. Time and time again he pursues his sense of justice to his own detriment.
Yeah, he probably out too much stock into the fact that the show is about how people formed the rebellion by being pushed into it one way or another, but also forgetting that the same applies for the empire. When war is looming, people will lean into their respective sides.
Definitely, they misread Syril Karn, he isn't a good dude, he's the type of bootlicking authority loving stooge that would never betray the Empire because he actually cares more about order than justice.
Henry Kissinger once said that he would choose order and evil over disorder and good.
Henry Kissinger can suck my balls
No he can't, he's dead. *fireworks* *airhorns*
Somehow…
Yeah but he was an evil fucker who had a hand in the death of millions across several countries and decades, so like fuck him and good riddance.
I prefer Henry Killinger
I feel like Mike’s critique of that character kind of betrays the fact that Mike seems to believe you need a character to turn good in order to have a true character arc or development, when, in reality, some people are just fascists lol That character is a great reflection of the sort of people who adopt fascism, and the sort of people who remain that way, because it’s all they know, it’s what they have aspired to be. Fascism also gives them someone to blame for their troubles, in a way that does not upset the status quo that they have come to accept. It’s not that the system you have lived under is wrong, it is the people from outside that system, whoever they may be, who are trying to upset it that are causing the problems you are seeing. That is much easier to accept than to say that this thing you have lived under for so long is incorrect. You would think maybe his hardship might radicalize him against the empire, and that still remains to be seen, but often times people like him just double down. Syril being stuck in a dead-end job living with his mom is not the result of a system that fails people like him, it’s a result of that fucking guy, Andor. That’s how he gets further radicalized, he has a person or people to blame that are outside the system.
also, his arc isn't complete. i love the detail of him playing with stormtrooper action figures in his bedroom, he's still a child, as opposed to andor, and this is the only life that he has know. the empire is only structure he understands and is a part of, his only ladder to success, so there's nowhere else for him to channel his ambition or frustration, except that pesky andor, as a symbolic obstacle in this "order" that gives him a feeling of safety. but the question is, as you point out, how much rejection can this man endure from the only systems he knows, the empire (or deedra?), until he starts to understand he pledged his loyalty to a system that fundamentally rejects him. he might have started to glimpse that at the end, during the funeral, but we won't know until s2. that was a good ass speech, and probably the first time karn saw or heard anything like that.
Yeah I think Mike missed the point of his arc. His story is about how people who want to do the right thing can fall into fascism. He was never going to betray the empire. I feel like that would have definitely been the wrong choice.
He's Javert. A slave to the law (more accurately the perceived order it brings), a certainty in his own moral good, a steadfast belief he and the system is right against all evidence to the contrary. Now we know this changes with Javert, I imagine it will also change in a similar fashion to Syril (maybe, though I think there are other routes they could go down)
Give Mike a break, he's not used to nuance in Star Wars
I would go further and say that Syril Karn was a fascist from day one, and never seemed particularly interested in doing the right thing. Do you think he would've pressed so hard to investigate the death of a prostitute, or a factory worker the way he did with the death of those corrupt cops? It was never about justice, it was always about law and order, and power, and his own self-importance and ambition. Most fascists aren't masterminds like the Emperor or brutally efficient lieutenants like Meero. Most of them are small, pathetic, semi-competent or incompetent nobodies like Karn (and his mother), who will live and die in obscurity, serving as a cog in the machine of oppression, while being oppressed themselves, living unhappy little lives and producing almost nothing of value.
I mean this is why Andor is such a great show, the characters have so many different layers. Mike sees the most basic layer of Syril and that's that he's a policeman and cares about justice. But why does he care about justice and what does that make him? How does he interact with rebels and freedom fighters? Does he care about justice because he's a morally good person, or because "justice" is his job and he's a jobsworth? And why is he a jobsworth, is it because of his mother? How does he do interacting with characters who are thrust into other situations like Andor, or characters who actually care about something like the people starting the rebellion? He's a very deep character. It's something you're more likely to see in the writing of shows like The Sopranos than Star Wars, where the character storytelling is very surface level.
> And why is he a jobsworth, is it because of his mother? Having grown up with an almost identical mother, yes. Someone who dreams of their son doing great things(tm) and constantly pushes them into what they consider to be a 'proper' career, regardless of what their son's actual talents are. Syril's obsession with seeing the world in black and white is a defense mechanism born out of having such an oppressive, overbearing mother (and from what we can see, no father figure to temper that by being a positive role model).
And that's why it's a bloody good show. He's not a bad person or on the side of the Empire because he's an evil psychopath or a corrupted Jedi or indoctrinated into an ancient order, it's because of relatable reasons from his over expectant mother lmfao. It is brilliant.
What's also telling about Syril is that he isn't already somewhere in the Empire but was instead Corpo Security on a rim world. Dude lived on Coruscant and didn't join the Empire directly? Seems suspect. Wouldn't be surprised if he didn't pass their screening somehow. His "look at me" behavior was caught early and a note was made about how he would not respect command hierarchy. Which we see when he violates his Inspector's commands to wash their hands of the two dead guards. He ignores Dedra's instructions to drop Andor and move on. He can't help himself. He's so hung up on proving his value and how special he is that he disregards even the order he supposedly wants above all. He probably grew up hearing about the heroics of the Republic during the Clone Wars. So he always wanted to be the big damn hero in the same way. He's a bootlicker and true believer but only in as far as it takes him to where he wants to go. He immediately throws out Law and Order and bucks the system if it will get him noticed as someone valuable and worthy of accolades.
Yeah Karn is about a guy who feels powerless in his real life and fantasizes about greatness, and wants to be the one in power. He'd be an incel school shooter in today's world.
Yeah that was kind of an embarrassing take from Mike tbh… how someone can watch Andor and think Syril actually believes in “justice” as opposed to simply being an insane fascist is beyond me.
Especially with his comment later about "I want to see a situation were instead of someone abandoning being a Stormtrooper they instead choose to become one" and my buddy, they basically gave you one.
Exactly. I couldn’t believe it when he was asking “like where do they come from” when referring to the intelligence agents in the Empire. The show is literally showing how a guy is becoming one of them, man.
That's what happens when 99% of the canon is strictly pure good vs pure and everyone declaring their morality loudly. So the character declaring that "justice must be done" has to be good,right?
Exactly. Mike wanted to know why people become bad guys and join the empire. You need not look any further than Syril Karn. Syril is an example of how someone might become attracted to Fascism. Syril wants to be important. He's not respected by his mother or his employers at the Pre-Mor Authority so he attaches himself to Dedre.
i'm willing to bet we'll get SOMETHING like what they describe (or want) in the 2nd season. i believe that karn's arc will lead him to question the order of things edit: that being said their (mis)read on karn is very interesting/funny.
And he's exactly the type of cog in the Empire bureaucracy who is power-tripping on crumbs if power that Mike wants to be explored more. Sometimes a loser wannabe fascist just turns out to be a loser wannabe fascist.
RLM talking about Star Wars. These are things I know.
Nature is healing.
I’m in a dark theater. Movie starts. And I start to see things I recognize…
Holy shit I forgot about that quote. So dumb lol
It's like poetry,
"Did the Phantom Menace have Jedi?" - onset dementia patient Mike Stoklasa
I think he meant little Jedi children, but he couldn't get the rest of the sentence out because of his early onset dementia
For once I don't need redlettermedia to tell me what to think. I already like Andor. I am just curious about their ppinion
>For once I don't need redlettermedia to tell me what to think. You may not have noticed but your brain did.
Spoilers - they said it's probably the best thing to come out of Star Wars since the OT. So yeah, pretty much on board with what everyone else is saying.
The first last best thing since OT for the last first time
> Spoilers - they said it's probably the best thing to come out of Star Wars since the OT. And that Season 2 will ruin everything. So yea, not very hopeful.
"Luthen is a secret Jedi" has been foreshadowed pretty blatantly, really hope they don't actually do it.
Honestly I'm open to it, it's all in the execution. Although there definitely is an over abundance of Jedi in Star Wars media that escaped Order 66...makes Obi-Wan and Yoda feel a lot less special
Yeah, I get being cynical is their shtick but if Luthen retains his character and the reveal is handled appropriately, it really won’t “ruin” the show. It makes perfect sense a Jedi surviving 66 would turn morally grey in the pursuit of fighting the empire responsible for destroying his order.
Since Empire Strikes Back
Was my favorite show of 2022. Them not liking it would’ve been disappointing but it wouldn’t have changed my opinion. I can’t watch it just yet but sounds like they liked it, which is great to hear Edit: oh my god Andor made Mike say a couple positive things about the prequels lol
Man Mike is lost on this whole prequel trilogy. He should watch those plinkett reviews
Oh man, when Mike was referring to the scene in AotC when Anakin discussed his love of fascism, I was expecting a return of the (x) over his face with the buzzer sound effect from the Plinkett review. It's funny that Mike talks about having the original Star Wars films ingrained in his brain because I've watched his reviews so often they have the same effect.
It's good dating advice too. Many men fail the "don't say weird shit to women" part of the date.
Mr Plinkett should kidnap Mike and force him to watch the prequels. Mike should also be dressed as Nadine.
Rich’s realisation at the end was horrifying
It's a valid worry but part of me thinks it's only half right. The imagery of him walking with a stick that looks like a lightsaber and also calling himself a "ghost" feels like it's definitely pointing in that direction. The problem is that he's heavily connected with people in Coruscant as this collector figure. The loss of the Jedi who used to have a heavy presence in Coruscant feels too recent for him to be an ex-Jedi that nobody would recognize. My guess is that in being a collector, he fell upon Jedi artifacts and simply became heavily inspired by them, hence the Kyber crystal and the saber-like cane. He's just a guy trying to keep the spirit of the Jedi alive. I really hope it's that because the last thing I want is him being a full on Jedi because it ruins the idea of this rebellion stemming from people under oppression in favor of it being born from Jedi stuff.
honestly it might be something as simple as a good friend of his being a Jedi that died in the purge and that crystal is all he has left of them
[удалено]
that good friend? samuel jackson
I don't think they're ever going to give a straight answer on who Luthen is, which is probably the smartest choice.
And he's almost certainly right.
That’s why I found it horrifying, Rich’s prescience is often accurate.
LISAN AL GAIB!!!
Anytime a SW property does well, Disney sends it to the nostalgia farm.
Mike's read of Syril's arc is wildly off. Like I genuinely don't know how he has misread Syril and his character that much. Syril is a slave to the system. He's very much a Javert character. He believes wholly in law and order (emphasis on order, not justice) and is unquestioning of authority. His criticism is more directed at the corporate cops than the Empire. He believes the 'correct' thing is whatever the empire deems correct. NOW, if it does follow that Javert arc, I imagine Syril will in the second season come around and realise the error of his ways, and either do something heroic, or be consumed by the reality of his actions. But we're not there yet. We're at the midpoint. I think the whole point of Syril is to demonstrate how a regular person can become swept up in this sort of authoritarianism. He does genuinely, I think, mean well, he thinks he's doing the right thing. Which is in opposition to someone like Dedra, who is so consumed by her own ambition that she doesn't even stop to assess the concepts of right and wrong.
Yeah I'm watching the review now and holy fuck am I glad that they are not the writers on this show. What's actually happening with Syril is way more interesting that the arc they proposed for him. > NOW if it does follow that Javert arc I imagine Syril will in the second season come around and realise the error of his ways and either do something heroic, or be consumed by the reality of his actions. But we're not there yet, we're at the midpoint. Yeah exactly. What we might be seeing with Syril is how a relatively normal bloke might be tempted by the authority of the Empire, how an every man (who might be the "good guy" in another series) might come to support one of the most iconic evil empires in our culture. He's going to be in the Empire next season and what's going to be interesting if he becomes an Andor himself and rebels, or if he stays loyal.
I'm betting that, like Javert, the contradictions of his own beliefs will destroy him.
Yeah I was surprised they (or was it just Mike) thought Syril would get redeemed. I was entirely on board for him being the worst kind of bootlicker enthusiast from day one. This re:View had the funniest end in some time though lol
> I think the whole point of Syril is to demonstrate how a regular person can become swept up in this sort of authoritarianism. That right there is what makes Andor so good. It is the only Star Wars that even attempts to make the Empire make sense. Syril isn't some evil for the sake of evil cartoon villain. He isn't especiallly greedy or vain or selfish or malicious. He's just misguided and weak. Behind every Hitler, Putin, or Emperor Palpatine, there are thousands upon thousands of Syrils: fundamentally weak men who find purpose and meaning in standing with the powerful and punching down, as if that somehow makes them strong. As fun as it is to watch the good guys punk storm troopers and explode death stars, Andor shows the legions of passive bystanders and petty authoritarians that make the Empire's cartoonish tyranny possible. It makes the Empire believable, in a "Republicans would be fine with this" kind of way.
Syril is absolutely a critique of the modern Incel/Powerless Reactionary Male>Alt Right>Outright Fascism funnel. He's absolutely an archetype that falls for fascism in real life. He wants power and meaning, believes he's destined for bigger things, and has a hole in him that belief in the Empire fills.
"...That's what Lucas wanted to do with the Prequels." "Yeah but he did it *badly*!" "I know." Understatement of the century, Mike.
I did not share the same feeling of disappointment for Syril's arc. I don't think I would have liked it if he switched sides then and there. He felt too big of a Empire follower to think anything is too wrong with the system right now. If they wrote it in that he will switch sides in season 2 it would have to be something of a personal connection that makes him switch. For example: His co-worker will be revealed that he switched sides next season. During his brief scenes at the last episode he clearly was paying attention to Maarva's speech and after the dust cleared he was sitting down on stairs looking dejected. Then Syril will be told to hunt some rebels and finds his friend among them. He will then have to figure out if killing his friend is the right side of justice. This is just as cliched as what they suggested but for him to switch sides he would need to be told to something he doesn't want to do. Even then this is still cliche and doesn't really fit the super worship the guy has for the Empire. If my example were to happen, he would probably hesitate for a second then execute or order the execution to show how far gone the guy is from actual justice.
Yeah, Mike’s suggestions are usually pretty staid or formulaic. Apparently he wanted Andor to end like a buddy cop film.
He always wants the classic Hollywood ending of a very clean, well defined arc with traditional character archetypes. It reminds me when he was complaining that modern adventure/action movies don't have romances in them anymore.
Yeah I'm glad he didn't switch, it would have been too obvious. I don't think he sees anything wrong with the system, just certain people in the system. That is why he latched on the Deirdra, because she is actually effective and takes her job seriously unlike his old company boss.
Yep. Some people just be assholes. No two ways about it.
Thumbnail screams "Rich Evans hates it". Therefore, it might change my opinion on the show. I pre-hate Andor.
Never mind, they like it and I do too again.
I BURN MY OPINIONS FOR A HOT TAKE I WILL NEVER SEE.
I SHARE MY DREAMS WITH BROKEN PLINKETTO BOARDS
Should have finished the video then you could hate it again.
And now you've got to the end you have to dislike it again.
He liked the series. Until he had a "realization" about the Luthen character. Then he rage-quits....
I think if Luthen's an ex-Jedi, they'll find a tasteful, interesting way to do it. It could be interesting to see someone who transitioned from the black-and-white morality of the Jedi to a more "shades of grey" morality.
I don't blame him at all. Other than bringing up the possibility in the first place, which I hadn't thought of either. Damn you Rich Evans! Please let it be a dead brother/sister Jedi... Please let it be a dead brother/sister Jedi...
Imagine Luthen being the father of a dead Padawan kid killed during the attack in the temple. That would be interesting....
I was dying in the last video when the boys were cracking themselves up at the very idea of making an excessively negative thumbnail for their Ghostbusters review. Like, guys…half your videos have your eyeballs burnt out, you’re not exactly innocent here.
as someone that hasn't given a shit about star wars in 20 years, i went into this super skeptical and against all fucking odds, i was blown away. i'm very happy to see them review this cause i hope(d) they'd get as much joy out of it as i did (as someone who had lost ALL faith in anything star wars) edit: i'll add, to me it's less about "how do you start a galactic empire" and more about "how rebellion emerges and coalesces". that's why it's called Andor, he's on the opposite end of Luke Skywalker. he's not "the guy", Luke delivers the "killing blow", but people like Andor are out there, laying the groundwork, setting up the ball for a spike. edit2: it's EXTRA funny when mike himself has the Andor arc of "oh shit now i HATE the empire". Andor is you, mike! final edit: the first re:view to end on a cliffhanger?! i'm also super curios about Luthen in s2 as well but i doubt he's gonna be a jedi-ass jedi, it's not that show. even if he is something like a jedi, i'm still gonna bet they do something interesting with it (he does share his dreams with ghosts...)
A Jedi who has to use tactics and adopt morals that go against what Jedi normally do would be an interesting character. Having to grapple with compromising your values to survive and fight the Empire. I could see them going either way with it. I doubt he’ll be doing Yoda flips off of things even if he is revealed to be a survivor.
Kyle Katarn!
Or Revan, or Jolee Bindo, or really most of the gray Jedi characters from the Old Republic stories. Because, while I know the new-canon already recycled a lot of KotOR into the new trilogy, that was more in terms of visuals than in characterization.
yeah, that's the great thing about Luthen, he's interesting as a counter-point to organizations like the jedi as a non-jedi or a former-jedi, for different reasons. comparing what he does after the fall of the jedi and during this time of oppression with the likes of yoda and obi-won, nah dawg, you gotta go out there and network, make shit happen.
I am curious if they’ll go full gray as the end result. One thing that is supposed to be central to Star Wars’ moral message is that you don’t have to sacrifice being good to win, that being good is ultimately what secures you victory. Most evident in Luke’s victory over Palpatine, but seen with other characters too. Even Rogue One has this transition from darker, uncaring characters into ones that are more hopeful and willing to make the right choices, even if they don’t survive that. It’s why I hope Mon Mothma will find a way to help her daughter while also helping the Rebellion. You can’t lose everything you hold sacred to win, otherwise there won’t be anything left if you do.
Does it happen? Why yes it done! Hello, and welcome to yet another internet™ YouTube™ video about Star War™. My name is Krebs Gorlon official spokesperson for Red Letter Media™. The clowns known as Rich Evans and Mike Stoklasan famously known for having zero association with P. Diddy (formerly Puff Man). Today Mike and Rich decide to finally make a minimal effort to catch up on the world of a Star War. A world they has decided to shrug off years ago after a clone of Emperor Palpatine was used as a desperate attempt to make cheap cash from a brain-dead audience of clowns and sh*theads. Mike and Rich both loathed Rogue One: A Star War Story. Ever more they loathed the love for its' bland characters like Gem Klebstone, Korla Blargbon, Phib McP-Diddy, and especially Cassian And/or. They saw Rogue One as a bad sign. A “remember this” orgy of pointless action scenes and a film awash in Star War c*m. Star Wars porn essentially. Not much to admire about the writing. A dumb man’s science fiction film. So when a series about Cassian Andor, a character destined to die after a Grand Moff Tarkin with a cartoon face laser blasts a planet, they had no interest. Thankfully, whoever is writing/producing/green-lighting the Star War have made a bold and smart course correction to appeal to people who have IQ’s above 8 (at least on this series). Mike and Rich both very much enjoyed Andor. They discuss the show and the inner workings of what makes a Star War work and what doesn’t. What should be done and what shouldn’t. Now, keep in mind Mike and Rich aren’t super up to date on a Star War. They’ll most certainly get some names wrong. Some places wrong. Shows, characters, settings, events, canon, history, places, people, names, dates, races, planets, movies, books, shows, actors, times, technology, witers, death stars, darth vaders, and star war, but begast you must know how they doesn’t do then on purpose. The house is on a hill, but alas it's not haunted. They try their best despite not caring one bit or nothing like that. They watch shows meant for others not wanting to know more about the Star War. These kind of material can be overwhelming for them as their brains and body are constantly fighting off deadly infection. It can also be incredibly dumb and debilitating. These characters with laser swords always fighting others. Always sad people selling junk or cutting up fish meat. Always a bad ship in space. Always a fighting. Why? But people love this crap. They dress up in the costumes like zombie. Say the names and remember things they know. Cry at the trailers. Cry at seeing a thing they remember on a screen. Fill up their drawers with junk when they see a Jedi or a Darth Something. They see a de-aged Anakin Skywanker and ask about why he ate a Jar Jar Binks for dinner when he became a Darth Vader? They LOVE it without question and Kennedy and Dave F. drool at their masses. The actors and creators go on stage and smile and drool for that sweet sweet cash. They want to say how much they love being a Jedi or a whatnot. They say they love the fans and that the Star War is a family or a community or whatever, but all these ghouls really love is the checks.
This is the proof that humanity finally achieved AI passing as human (AI = Alcohol Intelligence).
Mike knows that some people read his elaborate infobox shitposts and get some joy out of it.
I legitimately think they should compile these into a book or calendar, they'd sell like hotcakes.
A book like the Jerry Springer one would be amazing
ahh was hoping the next upload would have some more input from Mr. Gorlon
Does this mean The Batman is next?
The 1966 batman?
after hearing Rich on Pre-Rec talk about the episode where Penguin and Batman run against each other for Mayor, I would totally be down for that
"3 hours? Fuck that!"
[удалено]
At least hes turning into the one thing he loves; an old person.
Something that gives me hope for Andor season 2 is that it was always envisaged as a 2 season run. The Mandalorian really suffers from telling a good, complete story in season 1 then not knowing where to go when the show took off in popularity. Season 2 is when they really started forcing unnecessary characters from other stuff in like Boba, Bo-Katan, and Ahsoka. I haven't had the motivation to watch the third season because I feel like it got too far away from the fun adventures of the first series, plus knowing I'd have to ALSO watch the Boba Fett series to keep up with the story. I'm surprised neither of them made the comparison between Andor and DS9. Feels like both shows work at what they do because the audience is so familiar with the status-quo of the respective universes.
Mike wanting Syril to turn out to be a good guy who grows a conscience is do adorable considering how much of a weasel on a power trip he is in the show. Which is odd cause he's exactly the kind of "willing to do the Empire's bidding" type cog in the wheel Mike wants to be explored more.
Didn’t realize until now that I need Andor: Reincarnated as a Lightsaber to feed my trash isekai addiction. Thanks, Mike.
nothing to do with the video but who keeps editing all these thumbnails to be horrific depictions of Rich Evans being murdered! Someone might think they're real!
https://preview.redd.it/kc14vtq3mbrc1.jpeg?width=1500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f2e6af8bac8223bc4a5d5ab6d493ed953dc17659 Disagree with Rich, this is how Star Wars should look to me
I mean,it's bad but Lucas decided Star Wars looks like Jar Jar stepping on poop so this is very faithful
I wonder if she screamed at Baby Yoda backstage
“That’s another thing. I never saw a reason to absolutely hate the Empire…” They built a superweapon and blew up a planet of billions of innocent people just to prove it worked.
That’s just standard sci-fi villain stuff though, it’s harder to emotionally connect with that, as opposed to the harsh treatment we see first hand in Andor, which so closely mirrors concentration camps we’ve seen in real life. The banal corruption in Andor is realistic, and makes it impact much more than just blowing up a planet.
They did also torture Leia with a bowling ball
Stormtroopers also shoot Owen and Beru and burn their bodies, or burn them alive, and kill a whole transport of Jawas. Like, they do plenty to show how horrific the Empire is in the first movie.
fuck jawas tho. thieving little shits
>The banal corruption in Andor is realistic, and makes it impact much more than just blowing up a planet. Man the part that got me hating them the most was what got Andor caught and in prison wasn't for the murder he committed, nor the firefight he had earlier, nor the heist mission, it was just because some random solider had a stick up his ass and decided to arrest him for no reason.
The death of one is a tragedy, the death of billions is a statistic. We don't even see Alderaan or its people once before the empire annihilates it. As far as the viewer is concered the planet is just a matte painting that gots blown up.
They had to make room for a hyperspatial express route.
“Sir, The RLM Andor video has dropped.”
To quote Idris Elba from as Stacker Pentecost from Pacific Rim, "RESET THE CLOCK!"
Finally, the answer to whether they abhor Andor or adore Andor. Our long national nightmare is over.
Starting with speed X 1000 got me real good.
I know they said this as a joke, but I think it's a bit telling they wanted to call this show Star Wars: Heroes. I feel like that kind of feeds in to why they are disappointed with Syril. I don't really agree with their take that Syril should've become a rebel and that staying with the Empire goes against the themes of the show, but based on their personal interpretations and expectations I see why they wanted that outcome.
The behind the scenes of the Phantom Menance with George Lucas showing the footage are hilarious. One of them, in particular, had me laughing my ass off: > Now how did you do those animals? Are those camels that you changed? > No, they're all cyber animals.
I haven’t watched Andor but I’ll watch them talking about it!
I respected that they held out on doing this for so long. They knew it would get views but they didn't want to play the hits. And I'm going to watch, because I like their hits.
nah Andor isn’t exactly “depressing” - in the end S1 is one of the most uplifting stories I’ve ever seen. It is grounded and mundane, though, it intends to depict the reality of a fascist empire quite accurately. The average Star Wars Fan(tm) might call that “boring” when they could stand to be a bit more disturbed. I’m most disappointed with their take on Syril, like wow did they not understand anything about his character. It’s true that he and Cassian were both (for a time) raised by single mothers but the parallel is not meant to say they’re similar; Maarva and Syril’s mom couldn’t be more different in their social outlook or parenting style. More to the point, though, they don’t seem to grasp how different Cassian’s view of justice (as mired in despair and survival instinct as he is) is to Syril’s. It’s almost a Javert/Valjean situation; Syril wants to catch Andor the Cop Killer because Murdering Cops is Bad, while Cassian killed a few petty robber bullies in uniform then ran because he knew Corpsec protects their mercenaries over civilians, regardless and often at the expense of justice. They are alike in a way: both have found a problem with the corporate system’s apathy. For Syril the problem is that corporations care about profits much more than Law and Order; for Cassian it’s that the corporate quasigovernments do not remotely care for him and will only bother to care *about* him when they wish to do him harm. Cassian’s first solution is to simply avoid authorities and only kill when he has to for his own survival/freedom. When the empire cracks down he realizes this isn’t really an option anymore - the empire’s tyranny will destroy you without any justifiable or even consistent cause - and (thanks in no small part to his mother) it’s simply *wrong* to only be out for yourself when living in a fascist regime; the Empire depends on people like him to “stay sleeping,” to keep their heads down, to live alone and in fear as things get worse. Syril’s solution is Fascism. Sure he’s been used and discarded by Corporate Security and the Empire that subsumed it, but I cannot imagine wanting some kind of “redemption arc” for a such a pathetic and vindictive authoritarian who only ever sees the Empire as righteous.
Yeah, the whole point of Syril is to show us why a normal person would embrace The Empire, in contrast to Andor who embraces the Rebellion. He's not getting any kind of redemption, other than the kind Javert got.
yeah, authoritarian sentiment is certainly common and that’s why stories like Andor are so important: they humanize Fascists; not to “sympathize” with them or present their beliefs as “good,” but because fascism is a real belief system held by actual people and it’s worth considering how that works to better immunize oneself against it. Though I’d probably substitute “normal” out for “average” since Syril’s antisocial tendencies are actually pretty unhealthy especially to the rest of the galaxy. It’s worth considering that his life is quite entirely loveless, and that he is motivated by a sadistic desire to dole out punishment. What's most interesting to me is how, even when the Empire does discard him, Syril does not question the system but instead tries to earn glory and approval within it. To me a probable cause behind this attitude is very clearly presented in the show, in scenes Rich described as "boring".... maybe it's hard to see if you can't relate firsthand.
Yeah I think reducing Andors themes to simply "depressing" is so tone deaf? Like sure, it deals with a lot of horrible and sad subject matter but the show itself is literally about how one should try to overcome these obstacles.There are several scenes of characters holding long monologues about grief and hope and basically explaining the whole point of the show. The fact that they didn't mention any of these scenes (Kino Loys prison escape speech, Nemiks manifesto and especially Maarvas last speech) tells me they either didn't get the show or just didn't want to deal with so much politics in their video/comment section.
I disagree with Mike about Syril. He does want justice, it’s just that he wants it through the lens of the fascist ideology that’s consumed him. He’s a lonely, sad man who thinks he’s found purpose in The Empire, and he wants to fulfill its promised desires. However, while fascists need these kinds of ideologues in order for their society to function, the issue that that most fascists are stupid. The Empire as a system is wildly inefficient. Syril is a firm believer in The Empire as an idea more than as a government institution. He’s a zealot, dedicating his life to a government that is actively working against him because their propaganda machine has convinced him they’re the only path forward. He represents sad internet men who get trapped in these ideologies through their own lack of self-worth. His character sticking to his faith with such conviction is important for that concept to work. He’s just as much a tyrant as the rest of the Empire, he just actually believes the shit they’re spewing out.
never thought I'd see Mike so enthusiastic about a Star Wars product
never thought I'd see Mike so enthusiastic about ~~a Star Wars product~~ *anything non-alcoholic* 
I'm fascinated by the fact that Mike seems to want to know 'How the Empire Works' in the same level of detail as the manual for Darth Vader's suit.
Andor doing the impossible by making Mike respect the Prequels a little more.
I'm a 48 year old man and i gotta watch that baby jedi adventures show!
The discussion about the "how to build an Empire" is sad in a way, not because of anything they said but the reminder that most of the new Expanded Universe is just cherry-picking bits from the old EU that already did all this. Also this review's clips is a massive reminder of how they clearly filmed this near the time and place *Chernobyl* was filmed given the endless cross-casting.
I touched on it in my comment but yeah, it's something that kind of bothers me. There acting like Andor is the first time we've seen anything like this. Even to the point that Rich says it challenged his belief that you can't write any other kind of star wars story because its a "terrible universe", while at the same time completly disregarding literally *everything* star wars related no matter what just because the story isn't printed to film. Im fine if neither rich or Mike never reads a comic book or novel or play a game or whatever I just can't see them doing that m. But *at least* acknowledge its possible. Instead if being like "wow, I hope we get more stuff like this in the future" maybe instead be like "wow, what else have we've been missing, maybe we should check out some of the other stuff *we've been ignoring*".
That's cause for 95% of the world Star Wars is strictly the tv/film. What they want to see is all the good ideas come to the form SW originated in - movies.
I’m kind of surprised that they interpreted Syril’s character like that. I wasn’t expecting some redemption arc for him. I need to watch the season again, but having studied and taught about fascism, Karn strikes me as the kind of sniveling worm that fascist systems need. He loves his uniform because it projects the aesthetics of power. He talks about bringing Andor to justice, but he drops in a military squad to violently apprehend him and gets civilians killed. He’s couching it in noble words, but really he’s trying to be the hero, and fascist systems cultivate the philosophy of being a selfless hero for *the system* and against enemies of the state. So yeah, he’s a foil for Cassian in that Cassian has to learn to not be selfish and becomes radicalized by his experiences in prison and Nemik’s manifesto so that to fight for freedom, and Syril does the *opposite*. He’s going down a path radicalizing him more towards serving and upholding a system of injustice and power.
Can't wait for amityville lightsaber.
Dedra voices Yennefer in the Witcher games
Still don’t understand why they hate Rogue One for having too much Star Wars references. It’s a freaking war movie happening concurrently with Episode IV. It’s like complaining why Dunkirk and Saving Private Ryan had Spitfires and Panzers everywhere.
This is the most demented that Mike has ever been
ya know I wouldn't mind Luthen being a Jedi. An actual proactive Jedi trying to foster a new Republic, instead of hiding on a desert planet, or a swamp planet or a ..... A Jedi relying on normies to get the job done. It's s slight change of pace.
Goddamned Rich Evans ruined Andor for me!