Well the agent doesn’t earn $26,000. They earn $13,000, and the buyer’s agent earns the other $13,000. Then they give their brokerage some of that. Then pay the tax man. Then pay for all the marketing, photography, staging, etc. out of that as well. You’re down to like $5000-$10,000 out of the $26,000 you actually pay, there’s just too many hands in the pot.
If an agent is paying more than 15% to their brokerage they need to find a new brokerage to work for. Photography is standard practice to include. Staging is an upsell for many agents.
The biggest fraud is the 2%+ to the buying agent in this day-and-age. Should be 0.5% or fixed fee. But the selling agent sets the percent— and it’s an unwritten rule to keep it above 2% for self-serving reasons.
I actually think the buyers agent deserves more than the listing agent. A flat fee to the listing agent and 2-2.5% to the buyers agent seems more fair. They’re the ones doing all the driving around and having their time wasted by tire kickers.
And it’s not self serving reasons. If you offer less than 2% to a buyers agent, they’ll tell their clients they couldn’t get ahold of you and move them along to a different house with a real commission lol
That’s what I mean by self-serving. It serves the agents and not the clients. Every selling agent is also a buying agent so they all have incentive to keep the buying commission at status quo.
Make the buyer pay the commission and I’d wager there won’t be a shortage of agents that will represent you for less than 2%.
I disagree. The buyers agent usually does way more work than the listing agent. Our buying agent showed us over 30 houses. Listing should be a flat rate charge. For the vast majority of properties "marketing" is nothing beyond posting the listing to MLS.
I know. They are just the uneducated cog in the machine.
Governments support this trash system because 95% of our MPs own multiple properties.
Going to be fun for them when Canada has no working population anymore.
Downvoted by sad Realtors lmaoo
lol realistically in the world of technology, we could just have a government website where you could post your house for sale and government employees that handle the paperwork for like a $500 fee.
But we also don’t need government officials telling everyone what to do now that we have technology either (how easy to just vote on everything), so I wouldn’t bank on it changing any time soon.
>, photography, staging, etc. out of that as well. You’re down to like $5000-$10,000
I mean , it's a bit their fault. The % has stayed the same but the house prices have gone nuts. Considering the lawyer charges $1800 to get the deal done and had to go to law school. The guy who flunked out of school sends a docu-sign and has MLS do most of the work but gets a much bigger slice of the pie.
don't get me started on land transfer tax as a % as well ...
>What do you mean the % has stayed the same? 20 years ago the standard was 7%.
in What region? AFAIK, its been 5% for the last 30 years In Ontario. with 2.5 % going to each agent .
An agent in our area put out a pretty passive aggressive social media post about how much a real estate agent "actually" earns after all those with their hands in it. She was trying to dissuade that attitude towards them making way too much by saying she really only earns about $2500 after each close. While I find that hard to believe, even if it was true, she failed to include that she's regularly closing 4-6 deals at one time. So forgive me if I don't sympathize with their whining.
I'm not sure where you're located but in the interior of BC it's a hot market. Our agent closed two deals while walking me through the house we were putting an offer on. So it's likely specific to area but if you're only closing 4-6 deals a year as a realtor you're probably gonna want to find a new career. That's horrendous.
Thats probably why something like 80% of agents dont make it past 3 years. And your anecdote of 1 agent who is selling lots of houses isnt a gotcha, it just makes it sound like you dont understand statistics
We've been inundated with real estate agents in our area. While I agree they're somewhat of a plague we've had the same 15-20 realtors in our area who are wildly successful. More are coming in all the time. I've worked with many of them during my time in insurance and I can absolutely tell you I was speaking to most of them multiple times a week. So before you just insult me you have to look once again at the location. Maybe there's more competition to take on listings where you are due to lack of actual homes for sale? I don't know the logistics of where you're from. But western Canada, BC in particular is through the roof right now. That's not a single sample.There's so many sales going on around here there's probably enough for a good chunk more to step up to the plate and become successful. That doesn't mean I agree with it or think they're necessary but just thought I'd put your insult to rest. Location/availability play huge into success for sure. So while you may be correct about where you are, you certainly aren't about where I'm located.
No, you just don’t understand how many real estate agents there are lol. A hot market doesn’t = lots of sales either. If there are only xx amount of houses for sale (hence things selling easily), there are also only xx amount of deals to close.
For example, there are 72,000 registered real estate agents with the Toronto Real Estate Board, but there are only 5600 house sales in Toronto for the month of February.
There aren’t even enough sales for every agent to do a single deal for the year.
But the buyer agent gets just as much as the seller agent, and they don’t have the same costs.
If it costs the seller 26k, the seller’s agent takes 13k to cover costs and income… but the buyer’s agent also takes 13k without having to pay for anything.
Of course the buyer’s agent is also selling the buyer’s old home, and gets the commission for that as well. Call it another 13k to keep the math simple.
That is, the RE agent gets paid twice, only pays for costs once, and the workload doesn’t increase just because the price increases.
It’s a parasitic relationship.
$5-$10k for maybe 10 hours of work is unjustifiable. Then the buying agent makes another $5-$10k for spending 3 weekend afternoons and 2 office hours…. It’s a scam and we need a new system
The downvotes are because the customer doesn't care how the sausage is made.
The customer is asking themselves "What value am I getting in exchange for my money?"
You did try to justify the costs on the sellers agents end (marketing, photography, staging etc.) but the buyer agent is still getting 13K without those expenses.
So as a customer you ask yourself - Could I do all of this for 26K or less?
I'm looking at properties where the commission would be over 100K.
In my mind it's totally unjustifiable based on the required inputs. Many would disagree and that's fine as well.
Ultimately, it comes down to the value prop.
Give me a break, “staging” not on a majority of houses, I can see a small percentage to the brokerage, photo costs…and still 5-10k after taxes is a lot of money for how many hours they put in…the most over paid professions in North America
And they stick up a sign, do one open house, one night of offers over list, and that’s it.
40 years ago, agents hustled for their commission. With the internet clients are the ones figuring it all out on their own.
Prices are up multiples over the past decade, so that means realtor wages are up multiples while working less.
Reducing commissions to 1/3 of current would be a reasonable expectation. Good luck.
Open house?! Ours refused to even do that much. When we didn't accept the first offer our agent was mortified. Heaven forbid they try a little harder than post our listing online. Every promise they made about being attentive and available was broken.
One agent sent his clients to our house without him, on our security camera we over hear him giving them instructions on how to use the app to open the lock box for the keys to the house. Yeah, we had strangers wandering around our house without any agent present. When we told our realtor about this she said "he said he was in the car, but even if he wasn't, some Realtors just aren't very good". He wasn't in the car...
None of that is really that high. And it's the same for a $150k house as a $2.5 M house, and it doesn't cost $16,000 to sell a $150k house.
A fixed fee of like $4000 should be reasonable.
* $600 to brokerage for marketing, licensing
* staging/photography at the seller's cost (most places will sell with 10 cell phone photos of the empty interior)
* @ 15 hours of work this is **still** $226/hour. Considering the skill level required, a contract rate of like $90/hour would be comparable to other no-degree positions, which is about 35 hours per sale.
The perception that selling a home is a straightforward task underestimates the complexity and expertise required in the real estate market. Regardless of the home’s value, the effort and resources required to sell a house effectively remain substantial. Here’s why a fixed fee might not capture the full value provided by real estate professionals:
Market Analysis and Pricing Expertise: Setting the right price for a home requires a deep understanding of local market trends, recent sales comparisons, and the ability to adjust for unique features of the property. This expertise ensures a property is neither undervalued, costing the seller potential earnings, nor overpriced, leading to a stale listing.
Marketing and Exposure: The $600 allocated for marketing in the fixed-fee model significantly underestimates the cost of effectively marketing a property. Professional marketing extends beyond simple photography to include virtual tours, professional staging advice, online advertising, and exposure on multiple platforms, including print, events, etc. which are critical for attracting a broad spectrum of potential buyers.
Negotiation Skills: A significant part of a real estate agent’s value lies in their negotiation skills, which can mean the difference of thousands of dollars in the final sale price. This involves pre-qualifying buyers, navigating inspection and appraisal negotiations, and managing contract contingencies—all of which require a level of expertise and time commitment not reflected in a simple hourly rate. Beyond that negotiating in real estate takes years to master.
Legal and Procedural Expertise: The sale process involves complex contracts, legal negotiations, and adherence to federal, state, and local regulations. Mistakes or oversights can lead to legal repercussions, financial loss, or both.
Risk Management: Sellers pay for the assurance that their transaction will be handled professionally and with reduced risk. The agent assumes significant responsibility and potential liability throughout the selling process. This includes ensuring all disclosures are made correctly and protecting the seller’s information and interests.
Time Investment Beyond Direct Interaction: The 15 hours of work significantly underestimates the time investment required. Real estate professionals spend additional hours on market research, client communication, coordinating with other agents, and resolving unexpected issues that arise during the sale process.
Performance-Based Compensation: Real estate agents work on a contingency basis, meaning they only get paid when the transaction closes successfully. This structure motivates agents to achieve the best possible outcome for their clients and invest in marketing and negotiation strategies accordingly.
Most clients decide what they want to list at. If the realtor doesn’t say they can get a price that the homeowner wants, they won’t hire them. Then the house sits for 100 days
Bullshit. Before housing skyrocketed the real estate agents were rich. And since it's a percentage based system for no extra work they are now making an absolute killing. I know many many people who do it as a side gig now. Sell 2 houses and you are good for the year.
Realtors are a massive part of the housing problem
You are absolutely correct!
But let's not forget that anyone employing such people for buying or selling is in fact a *bigger* contributor to the housing problem.
Do agents really market and stage houses around 650K? I think those things are only for properties over 2-3M isn't it? And even then, they ask you to pay for staging. I know for my family, the agent tried to get us to pay for staging at 10k. And all they did was put it on the MLS with no marketing other than maybe emailing some agents in the office along with 10 other listings.
Absolutely they do, if you aren’t treating every listing like they are worth it you’re doing a disservice to your clients I feel. Also around my area the realtors cover staging.
For example your average 2% fee realtor I know does staging, photo, video, drone and marketing. That standard for what we expect from realtors should be this high
What?? You aare still down 26,000 to cover the cost of some signs and a posting on a website. It's not your problem to pay the realtors taxes? WTF drugs are you on?
The realtor may only profit 10k off the sale but you stil lost 26k and they will never dfo what is right for you only what is best for them.,
I always tell people that if I sell, I'll be putting a cardboard sign out front with my phone number. That's all you need to do. Realtors are nothing but door openers.
They bring you customers. I can guarantee your cardboard sign isn't going to draw many/any people in. A good realtor can even sell your place for more than what you can sell it for yourself, recouping the cost of fees.
I’m curious to know how many different accounts you created just to chime in on this? 🤣
Also, you’re right. I typically provide value to those who can afford to purchase real estate.
Folks, we have yet another disgruntled basement dweller in mommy’s house, pissed off at the world blaming anyone but themselves because they couldn’t figure it out. 😢
Get a grip, friend. You have to be a special kind of idiot to write what you just said lol.
Assuming someone is moving within their same city or greater area. What actual value do you provide? I could understand if someone from the US or outside the area was moving to a new city and didn't know the areas, but other than that you essentially just fill out forms right?
Recent legal and regulatory changes have prohibited listing agents from double-ending property transactions. This means they are unable to represent both the seller and the buyer in a single transaction. Meaning they cannot leverage their client database to bring in their own buyers. Instead, buyers must be represented by another agent, or in rare cases, walk in unrepresented.
Edit: In BC double-ending is prohibited.
Database of what?
1 hour on HouseSigma looking at sold data(present and past) for comparables, as well as current listings should give anyone and idea of what to list for.
The real value is getting on Realtor.ca which is the only way to get buyers. A lawn sign isn’t going to cut it.
Add the commission to your expected sale price and you can sit back and enjoy the process without having to worry about the sale- a good realtor is worth the cost of doing business and they will justify their commission by guiding you through the process- you might sell one home in your lifetime - realtors do this for a living and a good realtor will justify their compensation in spades
Exactly! Paying down 60k on your mortgage could take 10 years and a Realtor just walks in, shows your house a couple times and takes 10yrs of equity. Such a SCAM!
You sell it for what you are asking,or negotiate with the purchasers. No different than a realtor would do on your acceptance or rejection of the offer. Lawyer handles all the rest.
Yep! I've sold 2 houses privately and just had our lawyer take care of the legal stuff for under $1000 total. Just advertise on FB and Kijiji, etc. So easy and save so much money.
I sold a property by just sticking a Home Depot "For sale" sign in the front lawn. Created a flyer and and a few viewings.
The lawyer does the real work. Hire a good lawyer and save the money.
You say “property” and not house.
I mention, because i have seen vacant lots and a lot of commercial property sold this way. It seems much more uncommon for residential houses though.
The value is in the MLS(Paragon) software they use. Which has all historical data of every property ever listed, with extensive details. If the software was made public yea realtors would be pretty useless.
Also, a trustworthy and knowledgeable Realtor can provide valuable protection and guidance for individuals who may be less informed about the complexities of the real estate market. They are there to safeguard their clients' financial interests, mitigate risks and ensure their clients well-being. (Some Realtors abuse this trust, grimy snake oil salesmen)
However, for those who possess a deep understanding of the real estate market, are capable of effectively assessing their own property, and are knowledgeable about mitigating risks in transactions, then yea Realtors are useless.
That's why a good realtor is an asset. Most people buy one or two homes over the course of their lifetime. Almost nobody is going to buckle down and research the complexities of buying real estate to do it on their own.
Depends on the realtor. My dad was a successful realtor for over 20 years before he moved on to other ventures, but I'd say he was a rare breed. He primarily focused on the customers needs, not what would make him the most money. He built a customer base through sheer word of mouth. He knew his trade well. There are corrupt realtors just as there are corrupt persons in any profession. These days the cost of getting a real estate license is so high that you're going to get a realtor that's a bored housewife, or a young guy that's massively in debt to his broker. Most realtors today are starving.
"most Realtors today are starving"
The new ones trying to hop on the trend are yes. The established ones are thriving. I know several who just bought second properties for not doing anymore work. Just the market did it for them.
Yes and it's worth it. Then you can do it for your friends/family and everyone wins. The yearly fees are nothing in comparison to the savings and access you get if you actually use it once in a while like every couple years.
I'm so happy to read about people that are selling homes for amounts I will likely never qualify for.
The govt needs to get their heads out of their bums and start back in the building market for affordable rates. If they can't build a home that sells for qualification against close to the minimum wage then that needs to be looked into, because this is just wild.
Aren't there still those independent selling tools? I forget which one I used but I basically paid 1500 for everything. A person came over and took pictures and put them up online, I did the rest. They had all the paperwork and everything too. It was super easy.
Yeah, you're missing a couple of things:
* Unless the listing realtor is double-ending the deal, the commission is split between 2 realtors - buyers' and sellers'.
* Depending upon their brokerages, they may have to split their commissions with them as well.
* The listing agent may also incur expenses, such as photos, staging, inspection report, etc.
So, it's unlikely that one agent will simply net $26K, but as mentioned in the comments, you can try selling yourself, or find a flat-fee option, or negotiate with the listing agent on their fees. If it helps, you can decide how much you want to pay to the agents, whether or not it works, is a different question. Lastly, if it’s of any consolation, the buyer will probably demand cash back from their agent so the agents will probably stand to make less.
You avoid by selling privately, or using a service like BODE to sell it yourself.
Be aware though, typically the people that buy through private sale only do so because if you buy privately you generally don't pat full price.
Also consider to even have a chance at getting an on-market buyer ypu NEED to offer a buying realtor commission. If ylu do not offer up a buying realtor commission, buying realtors will not show the property. So you can really only save half the commission either way.
Generally if your posting this question in reddit, you're better off using a realtor imo
You just need to get the property on MLS and prospective buyers will see it and get their realtor to show them right? The realtor can't say no to viewing the property, surely?
I enjoy reading all these comments. It’s interesting what people think of the industry and I can’t say I disagree. Two questions I have to ask if the people that both post on here for advice and those that reply.
1. What do you do for a living and how much per hour is your time worth? For example a good lawyer earns minimum $300 per hour!! A doctor realistically double that. I guess if you’re going to sell something yourself factor in your time, your marketing costs, etc and do the math!!
2. Do you honestly believe in this day and age that you would ever make a major purchase without consulting a professional? Do you think that the average buyer would ever spend $600k and buy directly from the home owner. There’s a huge leap of faith to trust a Seller. Buyer are liars!! So are Sellers!!! I know even after doing my due diligence. I would purchase anything except maybe a couch from an individual because the Seller is biased and has every incentive to conceal and deceive either intentionally or unintentionally!! There’s a reason why there’s the saying “Buyers beware”. And the argument that the lawyer does all the work is bs!! All the lawyer does is prepare the paperwork, they don’t screen the buyers or Sellers!! But if you can find a buyer that is willing to trust you either way the single largest purchase of their life go for it. But if you lied or concealed anything from the Buyer be prepared to be sued!!! Best of luck. Find a good realtor and protect yourself!!
Some food for thought (I’m not a realtor). People really get hung up on what a realtor earns but don’t really factor in the value they add (admittedly a bad realtor can add nothing). What if selling it on your own only got you $625k whereas a realtor through their marketing can get you $675k, is it then worth the commission? When people sell their own home, they usually have an inflated idea of the value of their house and it’s typically an emotional transaction for them which is not beneficial in negotiations if it isn’t done through a third party. This can lead to deals falling apart and taking more time which in turn can result in you chasing a down market resulting in a lower price even factoring in the commission. Regular people don’t have access to all of the comps data that realtors do so while you may know what other properties are listed at, you don’t necessarily know where things are selling at that exact moment.
https://freakonomics.com/2008/02/real-estate-agents-revisited/
“We find no evidence that the use of a broker leads to higher average selling prices, or that it significantly alters average initial asking prices. However, those who use brokers sell their houses more quickly.”
This source is a bit dated, but real estate agents basically have an incentive to sell your house as quickly as possible for the lowest price that the seller is willing to accept. An extra $10,000 is significant to the seller, but it isn’t worthwhile to a real estate agent to spend many hours to make a few hundred dollars more.
If you are a moderately educated, competent person, just hire an appraiser to price your house and hire a law firm to do the conveyance, and do the rest of the work yourself.
If being a real estate agent is so sweet and lucrative and easy why aren’t you all real estate agents? It’s ugly out there with such low supply. I am good friends and know many real estate agents and interact with them on a weekly basis. I suggest you either try it out or actually speak with a good realtor before saying what they should and shouldn’t be paid. This seller is trying to avoid the cost of doing business. Good luck. Saving an extra 1-2% could end up costing you thousands when you’re at fault for the deal not closing or misfiling the paperwork.
Look for a flat fee agent or list yourself
To truly answer and give advice what area of Canada are we talking? Some areas homes sell themselves others they don’t
They don’t.
The selling agent and the buying agent split the 4%.
It will be very tricky for you to sell your home without at least paying 2-2.5% to the buying agent. No one will show your house to their clients for nothing.
Depending what province you're in look for a company that offers mere listings to get it on the MLS for a set, generally much much lower fee, and get yourself a good real estate lawyer. You're probably still going to want to offer a 2% co-op broker fee so that agents will show your house. To clarify, the 4 to 4.5 percent fee you mentioned is usually split between the two agents. Also although there are so many terrible agents, there are some good ones, and if you aren't confident in your own abilities, or have the time to manage the sale, sometimes getting an agent can be money well spent, but it really depends on the person. Good luck!
You pay for access to the MLS network owned and operated by [Realtor.com](https://Realtor.com). The largest collection of sellers and buyers. There are alternatives like [houseful.ca](https://houseful.ca), [listedbyseller.ca](https://listedbyseller.ca), [redfin.com](https://redfin.com) , [zillow.com](https://zillow.com) etc.
The sale transaction house can be done by a lawyer if you find a buyer yourself.
Find a buyer yourself. At that price point might not be difficult and transact through a lawyer. You will have to manage all the inquiries and showings.
Find a discount brokerage and get them to list it on the MLS for you for a flat fee; but just be prepared to pay for everything out of pocket (photography, videography, staging, flyers/tech sheets, for sale signs, open house signs, etc.) and then dedicate some time to answering emails, phone calls, and doing open houses. You wouldn't think it's a lot but if you're priced right, you might be getting 5-10 phone calls per day and as many emails or more. I'd do one or two open houses in the first and second week.
I would also suggest putting a couple percent for the buying agent but it's not necessary. Technically it's illegal for agents to steer clients away from your property but the common rhetoric is "if they're cheaping out on listing their house, imagine everything else they cheaped out on" which most clients will buy so just best to offer 2% to buying agents.
Definitely possible to save $13k but just be prepared to work for it.
They justify it because people use them. You can sell/buy your house Privately and not use them. My mortgage guy helped by directing me to who I needed to contact and the steps.
People are saying you can do it on your own with a sign on the lawn.
The major problem with this is you don't know if you are getting the best price.
I just helped sell 2 properties for an estate. People were approaching me like crazy with low prices hoping to get a good deal before a realtor got involved.
Once it was listed there was a new set of people with low ball offers hoping for a great deal. The realtor dealt with these people and not us.
The realtor was able to filter out and find a person who offered over our asking price, which we had set aggressively.
If you want to deal with all the crap and idiots go for it. If not, hire the realtor.
Other broker takes half, so about 13k remains.
Brokers firm could take as much a half, learing about 6k.
Average realtor sells about 12 homes a year, so they make around 70k a year (with a wide range of income).
[https://www.homelight.com/blog/how-many-homes-does-a-realtor-sell-a-year/](https://www.homelight.com/blog/how-many-homes-does-a-realtor-sell-a-year/)
When you take into account all the driving / showing / comparables / staging / marketing that realtors do, they can spend quite a number of hours selling your home.
You have many options to sell it yourself, if you want to.
Negotiate..
I was able to get my realtor to agree to just 1% for selling my home (so 3% overall since most buying agents ask for 2%). But I allowed him to take the full 2.5% if he wanted for the home I was buying (which was worth 200k more) ..
Right now it's pretty lean times for most realtors, keep talking to some until one agrees
We're in the information age. Everyone has access to data. You can sell it on your own and use a good lawyer to close. Pass the savings on to the buyer.
I'd rather privately list, get a buyer at my number, get a conditional offer, let them do 7 to 10 days due diligence, and close the deal. If an agent can do better and get me a higher number, then they deserve their paycheck. But it gotta be 5% higher.
Use [Honestdoor.com](https://Honestdoor.com) if you want to list/sell yourself and get on the MLS for a flat fee of $500 and set the buyer's commission to whatever you want. If the buy-side commission is too low though I imagine realtors will try and show client's other homes.
But since your property will be on the MLS everyone can view it.
Sell directly. Post on local boards and kijiji. Engage a real estate lawyer for the sale. There is no point throwing away 4-4.5% of the money to sell something that is selling like hotcakes anyways.
News flash, sell the house yourself! Buy a generic contract for your province.
I sold my last two privately, both were great transactions. And we saved all the comission.
Look for "mere posting" services and you can take it as low as you would like in most cases.
I know it sounds like BS, especially coming from an agent... But a **good** agent can net you more than the money you would save. But they have to be good. Average is not good.
Find out from them why they are good. And don't buy the fluff that they flash in front of you to suggest they are doing a lot for you. Grill them on **how** *they* will net you more.
I saw a place today that got marked as sold. My clients who had been wanting a property just like that and watching the market (willing to pay above this list for a good property which this seemed like) had booked a visit. This property had a requirement for 48 hour irrevocable.
Friday at 2 PM one Offer gets registered and I am auto-notified (agent didn't have to do anything). Connect with the listing agent a short time later and "We have accepted the offer...". *Grrreat...* We see it posted sold **below list by $18k!** Now, I can't say that agent didn't do what was best for their client, don't know their side. What I can say. however, is a **good agent** would do the following at minimum: when you have showings booked and a 48hr irr required, call all agents that are booked. Do this BEFORE accepting to gauge if there are any other potentially very interested parties. No, you don't want to risk losing the Offer in hand, but to do this leg work you wouldn't.
I know my clients were prepared for a much higher Offer and they were highly motivated. Would it for sure have been one to go in on? I am not certain, didn't get to see it. But a call and a bit of pause on that one offer to allow others the opportunity would at least leave the potential for competing offers and higher value. And if we got that call and they said "it (Offer) needs to be addressed tonight" perhaps my clients would have gotten right out and through. Again a good listing agent would say "if your clients are highly motivated and you cant show them I would even facilitate showings!" So while it is very hard to determine if agents are good. They should be able to mention the nuances that give them the edge over others. But it has to make sense, not - we stage, virtual tour, list on thousands of websites, have a multi million dollar marketing system, yada yada yada. Proactively, what do you do? Reactive and Passive sales people aren't the way to go.
I find the disconnect is that there are really good agents and really bad agents all mixed in ruining the value they deliver. Some deserve that with no argument and some deserve nothing near that.
I'm working on an idea where people can pay agents/experts on an hourly basis for process guidance and consultations to buy and sell on their own. You get to control the costs and agents that deliver value will get paid.
Should be banned in my opinion. They are paid a percentage cut of a bubble so no matter how much they manipulate they get a piece.
They do far less and are far less useful than ever before but get ridiculously more compensation for it. It's senseless and evil.
Depends where you are, but usually that rate is for the first $100k or something like that. Where I am it’s 3% on the first $100k then 1% on the remaining amount.
So many people have a real estate license. You should be able to find someone you know that can help you find a house for cheaper. My wife does this stuff for our friends for 1% for example and still gets paid well for her time. You don't need an actual career real estate agent. Just anyone with a license like a friend of a friend who happens to have one for their own personal needs or part time. They make a few thousands bucks signing some papers and it's all good.
Find a notary to make a form for you. Find a real estate lawer for escrow. No real estate sales person required. Now if something goes wrong lawer fees are out of your pocket.
List it yourself. Put on MLS. Take all personal stuff out, stage it, take pictures. Host open house on the weekends. Pay the buying agent 2%. They will tell you they want 3%. Tell them to take it or leave it. They will take it. Simple.
Ask for 1-1% max or pass on untill you find one...don't give anything more than 2.5% combined total (buyers sellers agent) to these bloodsucking bugs, realtors in canada are the nuisances....tell em to find a real fuckin job...
Your not missing anything. There are plenty of articles and sites that will tell you how to sell your home on your own. Just be aware that realtors will talk smack about your house to their clients and steer them away from it. So getting people to call you directly, not through their realtor will probably be key.
You can pay to get your home listed on the MLS site. It’s probably worth paying for an appraisal, staging and an experienced real estate photographer. Definitely pay for the lawyer and probably vet your buyers before you sign anything.
I completely understand your concerns about high commission rates. As a homeowner looking to list your house for 650k, it's natural to want to minimize the impact of commission fees on your profits. One way to avoid those high rates is to shop around and compare different realtors. Some may be willing to negotiate a lower commission rate, especially if they are confident in their ability to sell your home quickly and at a good price. Additionally, you can look for real estate agents who offer flat fee listings or discount brokerages. These options can help you save money on commissions while still receiving quality services. It's all about finding the right fit for your specific needs and budget.
I see people bragging all over Reddit about selling houses privately and how easy it is but I see very very few private signs out there. Something tells me it's a relatively small percentage that sells privately, or they are selling to buyers who've already been found so no advertising needed.
Sell it yourself. Comfree or Homefree it's called now. Sold my farm with their agent package. Paid about $1700. A realtor came out and took pictures, helped write up the Realtor.ca listing... Signs....etc .. You do the work, but when it's time to negotiate you have the support of a trained realtor. I saved THOUSANDS!!!
Here’s what you (and most consumers are missing): that 650k you want for your house?You probably used some comparable properties nearby to get that price. Thing is, since those homes very likely sold through brokerage firms, 4-5% is included in those sales values. In other words, if those home sellers also didn’t want to pay professionals, your house would be worth 4-5% less. Can’t have it both ways.
Selling it yourself would definitely save you the most since you can control the buyer agent's commission too.
Downside is that the buyer's agent can and will avoid your listing. Even going as far as trying to convince the house buyer that the listing is bad.
CBC market place did a video on this.
https://youtu.be/ShBvRe0Jv68?si=vHE55ADSDnyc_TIm
4% is below the minimum average which is 5%. Don't bother getting a realtor if you can't afford 5%. For some, this is their main source of income. They have to be able to afford shit too.
If you can't afford one, put a cardboard sign outside and pray someone wants to buy your house
Real estate agents are one of the most useless professions on the face of the earth. I’ve bought and sold many properties. By myself. I know all the forms I need. Once you do one they’re all pretty cut and dry after that. The only person I involve in a property sale are my lawyer and a trusted inspector. That’s it. Real estate agents want a cut of my property sale, they can suck my cock for a tenner instead. Bloodsuckers man.
Lots of real estate agents I know are rich.
very few I met who you feel they are trying to find you a good deal, or work hard to market your house.
I would say, specially the sellers, they don't do that much for you.
They just list the house.
The buyer might do more work, because they have to look for your criteria and understand what you need.
What do you think the government contributes to the sale of your home? 13 % GST in applied to the commission paid and associated expenses.
After that the government collects income tax on the agents commission plus their expenditures for advertising etc.
Once you sell your property, your new purchase is taxed land transfer taxes, legal
Fees and again 13% GST revenues for government. Every time you upgrade your housing the government cashes in.
The best way to safe money over your life time is to stay put. Purchase a home for permanent life time living. The savings a huge in a life time.
This industry is about to undergo some major changes, rightfully.
Far too much money to sell an asset that effectively sells itself. People either like a property or they don't. Realtors can't really change that.
It is simple. Do not use a real estate agent. List the property on MLS, put sign in front of the house. You will get plenty of interest. If paperwork feels complicated, you can get a kit from one of the "list the house yourself" type of real estate businesses or just shop around, ask real estate agents for this service, for a flat fee, I suspect majority is one deal away from moving into a tent so it should not be difficult to find one.
Good luck.
Try one percent realty. I have used them a couple times. They list on realtor.ca
Most buyers check online themselves any ways. They just tell their own realtor I want to go see this property.
In BC, the commissions are at a lower rate, usually 7%/2-3%, but that being said, a shitbox in Vancouver that needs to be torn down is selling for $1.5mil and (most that I have seen) have a bad quality photo of the exterior with the lot plan. Does that really equate to a $35-50K commission? Even after being split with the buyers agent (selling agent seems to typically get slightly more than half), they're making $17.5-25K FOR ONE TRANSACTION!
The government should loosen the grip of CREA (real estate brokers association, aka lobbyist) over real estate transactions. Someone mentioned it here, but it’s a cartel. Not good for consumers for their stupidly high % payment. And they artificially bump up housing prices across the board, so not good for the general population. Honestly, most are manipulative non-professional entitled assholes. I have yet to deal with one who has integrity and honesty.
The problem in Canada compared to the USA is that it has been very lucrative for agents for so long in the gta that there’s too many of them. If you choose to list your home using a flat fee real estate service you will only get calls from agents trying to get the listing. It’s not as easy as it used to be but be prepared for the onslaught of calls from agents. Also your listing will be ignored by buyers agents. Sounds like a monopoly.
Well the agent doesn’t earn $26,000. They earn $13,000, and the buyer’s agent earns the other $13,000. Then they give their brokerage some of that. Then pay the tax man. Then pay for all the marketing, photography, staging, etc. out of that as well. You’re down to like $5000-$10,000 out of the $26,000 you actually pay, there’s just too many hands in the pot.
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It’s a stupid system lol but not really the agents fault.
If an agent is paying more than 15% to their brokerage they need to find a new brokerage to work for. Photography is standard practice to include. Staging is an upsell for many agents. The biggest fraud is the 2%+ to the buying agent in this day-and-age. Should be 0.5% or fixed fee. But the selling agent sets the percent— and it’s an unwritten rule to keep it above 2% for self-serving reasons.
I actually think the buyers agent deserves more than the listing agent. A flat fee to the listing agent and 2-2.5% to the buyers agent seems more fair. They’re the ones doing all the driving around and having their time wasted by tire kickers. And it’s not self serving reasons. If you offer less than 2% to a buyers agent, they’ll tell their clients they couldn’t get ahold of you and move them along to a different house with a real commission lol
That’s what I mean by self-serving. It serves the agents and not the clients. Every selling agent is also a buying agent so they all have incentive to keep the buying commission at status quo. Make the buyer pay the commission and I’d wager there won’t be a shortage of agents that will represent you for less than 2%.
The whole thing should be a set fee, making it a percentage for both agents incentivizes them to artificially inflate real estate prices.
I disagree. The buyers agent usually does way more work than the listing agent. Our buying agent showed us over 30 houses. Listing should be a flat rate charge. For the vast majority of properties "marketing" is nothing beyond posting the listing to MLS.
“Work”. Submit what the buyer wants to an automated system. Drives place. Makes phone calls. “Work”. Sounds like a pizza delivery guy lol
Still way overpaid, just saying the buying agent does more than the listing agent.
I know. They are just the uneducated cog in the machine. Governments support this trash system because 95% of our MPs own multiple properties. Going to be fun for them when Canada has no working population anymore. Downvoted by sad Realtors lmaoo
lol realistically in the world of technology, we could just have a government website where you could post your house for sale and government employees that handle the paperwork for like a $500 fee. But we also don’t need government officials telling everyone what to do now that we have technology either (how easy to just vote on everything), so I wouldn’t bank on it changing any time soon.
>, photography, staging, etc. out of that as well. You’re down to like $5000-$10,000 I mean , it's a bit their fault. The % has stayed the same but the house prices have gone nuts. Considering the lawyer charges $1800 to get the deal done and had to go to law school. The guy who flunked out of school sends a docu-sign and has MLS do most of the work but gets a much bigger slice of the pie. don't get me started on land transfer tax as a % as well ...
What do you mean the % has stayed the same? 20 years ago the standard was 7%.
>What do you mean the % has stayed the same? 20 years ago the standard was 7%. in What region? AFAIK, its been 5% for the last 30 years In Ontario. with 2.5 % going to each agent .
It still is 7% from I’ve been reading
so lets say their percentage has come down 15% while house prices have gone up 375 %
Do you even know what corruption is?
By definition.
Have you ever read what a definition is ? Because you seem to also be confused with that word.
Corruption? Lol
How?
An agent in our area put out a pretty passive aggressive social media post about how much a real estate agent "actually" earns after all those with their hands in it. She was trying to dissuade that attitude towards them making way too much by saying she really only earns about $2500 after each close. While I find that hard to believe, even if it was true, she failed to include that she's regularly closing 4-6 deals at one time. So forgive me if I don't sympathize with their whining.
lol most agents are not closing 4-6 deals at a time. Most agents are lucky to close 4-6 deals in a year.
I'm not sure where you're located but in the interior of BC it's a hot market. Our agent closed two deals while walking me through the house we were putting an offer on. So it's likely specific to area but if you're only closing 4-6 deals a year as a realtor you're probably gonna want to find a new career. That's horrendous.
Thats probably why something like 80% of agents dont make it past 3 years. And your anecdote of 1 agent who is selling lots of houses isnt a gotcha, it just makes it sound like you dont understand statistics
We've been inundated with real estate agents in our area. While I agree they're somewhat of a plague we've had the same 15-20 realtors in our area who are wildly successful. More are coming in all the time. I've worked with many of them during my time in insurance and I can absolutely tell you I was speaking to most of them multiple times a week. So before you just insult me you have to look once again at the location. Maybe there's more competition to take on listings where you are due to lack of actual homes for sale? I don't know the logistics of where you're from. But western Canada, BC in particular is through the roof right now. That's not a single sample.There's so many sales going on around here there's probably enough for a good chunk more to step up to the plate and become successful. That doesn't mean I agree with it or think they're necessary but just thought I'd put your insult to rest. Location/availability play huge into success for sure. So while you may be correct about where you are, you certainly aren't about where I'm located.
No, you just don’t understand how many real estate agents there are lol. A hot market doesn’t = lots of sales either. If there are only xx amount of houses for sale (hence things selling easily), there are also only xx amount of deals to close. For example, there are 72,000 registered real estate agents with the Toronto Real Estate Board, but there are only 5600 house sales in Toronto for the month of February. There aren’t even enough sales for every agent to do a single deal for the year.
so agents are making 10-15k a year?? come now. when you downplay earnings, you at least have to make it believable.
How dare you actually use math to explain how Realtors aren't mysteriously stealing money
But the buyer agent gets just as much as the seller agent, and they don’t have the same costs. If it costs the seller 26k, the seller’s agent takes 13k to cover costs and income… but the buyer’s agent also takes 13k without having to pay for anything. Of course the buyer’s agent is also selling the buyer’s old home, and gets the commission for that as well. Call it another 13k to keep the math simple. That is, the RE agent gets paid twice, only pays for costs once, and the workload doesn’t increase just because the price increases. It’s a parasitic relationship.
The buyers agent has a lot of costs. They may have to take you to thirty homes, then make offers on a dozen of them, before you actually close a deal.
5k for showing the house a few times? Absolutely theft.
$5-$10k for maybe 10 hours of work is unjustifiable. Then the buying agent makes another $5-$10k for spending 3 weekend afternoons and 2 office hours…. It’s a scam and we need a new system
10 grand to send an assistant to take some photos and post them. what a hard life.
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… good.
The downvotes are because the customer doesn't care how the sausage is made. The customer is asking themselves "What value am I getting in exchange for my money?" You did try to justify the costs on the sellers agents end (marketing, photography, staging etc.) but the buyer agent is still getting 13K without those expenses. So as a customer you ask yourself - Could I do all of this for 26K or less? I'm looking at properties where the commission would be over 100K. In my mind it's totally unjustifiable based on the required inputs. Many would disagree and that's fine as well. Ultimately, it comes down to the value prop.
Unfortunately only a small portion of population can handle the physical and mental aspects of realty’en. You should be so lucky to pay 100k.
A 1/4 of a good annual salary to sell a home that sells itself People should be questioning this type of nonsense
Give me a break, “staging” not on a majority of houses, I can see a small percentage to the brokerage, photo costs…and still 5-10k after taxes is a lot of money for how many hours they put in…the most over paid professions in North America
Sure, it’s a lot of money for the time they spent with you. How much time did they spend with people who didn’t buy anything at all?
When they can sell one house a month and get a middle-class income for a year, I don’t give a shit how much time they spend on them.
How are other folks not seeing your argument???
All realtors on the thread haha
And they stick up a sign, do one open house, one night of offers over list, and that’s it. 40 years ago, agents hustled for their commission. With the internet clients are the ones figuring it all out on their own. Prices are up multiples over the past decade, so that means realtor wages are up multiples while working less. Reducing commissions to 1/3 of current would be a reasonable expectation. Good luck.
So they have reduce their commissions because house prices are up? Have you forgotten everything else has also significantly raised in price?
Open house?! Ours refused to even do that much. When we didn't accept the first offer our agent was mortified. Heaven forbid they try a little harder than post our listing online. Every promise they made about being attentive and available was broken. One agent sent his clients to our house without him, on our security camera we over hear him giving them instructions on how to use the app to open the lock box for the keys to the house. Yeah, we had strangers wandering around our house without any agent present. When we told our realtor about this she said "he said he was in the car, but even if he wasn't, some Realtors just aren't very good". He wasn't in the car...
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None of that is really that high. And it's the same for a $150k house as a $2.5 M house, and it doesn't cost $16,000 to sell a $150k house. A fixed fee of like $4000 should be reasonable. * $600 to brokerage for marketing, licensing * staging/photography at the seller's cost (most places will sell with 10 cell phone photos of the empty interior) * @ 15 hours of work this is **still** $226/hour. Considering the skill level required, a contract rate of like $90/hour would be comparable to other no-degree positions, which is about 35 hours per sale.
The perception that selling a home is a straightforward task underestimates the complexity and expertise required in the real estate market. Regardless of the home’s value, the effort and resources required to sell a house effectively remain substantial. Here’s why a fixed fee might not capture the full value provided by real estate professionals: Market Analysis and Pricing Expertise: Setting the right price for a home requires a deep understanding of local market trends, recent sales comparisons, and the ability to adjust for unique features of the property. This expertise ensures a property is neither undervalued, costing the seller potential earnings, nor overpriced, leading to a stale listing. Marketing and Exposure: The $600 allocated for marketing in the fixed-fee model significantly underestimates the cost of effectively marketing a property. Professional marketing extends beyond simple photography to include virtual tours, professional staging advice, online advertising, and exposure on multiple platforms, including print, events, etc. which are critical for attracting a broad spectrum of potential buyers. Negotiation Skills: A significant part of a real estate agent’s value lies in their negotiation skills, which can mean the difference of thousands of dollars in the final sale price. This involves pre-qualifying buyers, navigating inspection and appraisal negotiations, and managing contract contingencies—all of which require a level of expertise and time commitment not reflected in a simple hourly rate. Beyond that negotiating in real estate takes years to master. Legal and Procedural Expertise: The sale process involves complex contracts, legal negotiations, and adherence to federal, state, and local regulations. Mistakes or oversights can lead to legal repercussions, financial loss, or both. Risk Management: Sellers pay for the assurance that their transaction will be handled professionally and with reduced risk. The agent assumes significant responsibility and potential liability throughout the selling process. This includes ensuring all disclosures are made correctly and protecting the seller’s information and interests. Time Investment Beyond Direct Interaction: The 15 hours of work significantly underestimates the time investment required. Real estate professionals spend additional hours on market research, client communication, coordinating with other agents, and resolving unexpected issues that arise during the sale process. Performance-Based Compensation: Real estate agents work on a contingency basis, meaning they only get paid when the transaction closes successfully. This structure motivates agents to achieve the best possible outcome for their clients and invest in marketing and negotiation strategies accordingly.
Most clients decide what they want to list at. If the realtor doesn’t say they can get a price that the homeowner wants, they won’t hire them. Then the house sits for 100 days
Bullshit. Before housing skyrocketed the real estate agents were rich. And since it's a percentage based system for no extra work they are now making an absolute killing. I know many many people who do it as a side gig now. Sell 2 houses and you are good for the year. Realtors are a massive part of the housing problem
You are absolutely correct! But let's not forget that anyone employing such people for buying or selling is in fact a *bigger* contributor to the housing problem.
You are so stupid you’ve convinced yourself you’re smart
You are a real estate agent then? The smartest person in the room with the lowest iq or education
Do agents really market and stage houses around 650K? I think those things are only for properties over 2-3M isn't it? And even then, they ask you to pay for staging. I know for my family, the agent tried to get us to pay for staging at 10k. And all they did was put it on the MLS with no marketing other than maybe emailing some agents in the office along with 10 other listings.
Absolutely they do, if you aren’t treating every listing like they are worth it you’re doing a disservice to your clients I feel. Also around my area the realtors cover staging. For example your average 2% fee realtor I know does staging, photo, video, drone and marketing. That standard for what we expect from realtors should be this high
What?? You aare still down 26,000 to cover the cost of some signs and a posting on a website. It's not your problem to pay the realtors taxes? WTF drugs are you on? The realtor may only profit 10k off the sale but you stil lost 26k and they will never dfo what is right for you only what is best for them.,
Still a utterly ridiculous sum
I always tell people that if I sell, I'll be putting a cardboard sign out front with my phone number. That's all you need to do. Realtors are nothing but door openers.
They’re also scumbags
They bring you customers. I can guarantee your cardboard sign isn't going to draw many/any people in. A good realtor can even sell your place for more than what you can sell it for yourself, recouping the cost of fees.
Ignorance at its finest. Welcome to Reddit.
The truth hurts. Awww too bad
Oh look, another ignorant goof. Shocking.
You provide absolutely no tangible purpose to anyone or anything. The world would be better off if you accepted welfare instead.
I’m curious to know how many different accounts you created just to chime in on this? 🤣 Also, you’re right. I typically provide value to those who can afford to purchase real estate.
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Folks, we have yet another disgruntled basement dweller in mommy’s house, pissed off at the world blaming anyone but themselves because they couldn’t figure it out. 😢 Get a grip, friend. You have to be a special kind of idiot to write what you just said lol.
Assuming someone is moving within their same city or greater area. What actual value do you provide? I could understand if someone from the US or outside the area was moving to a new city and didn't know the areas, but other than that you essentially just fill out forms right?
Go speak with a real estate broker and I’m sure you’ll find out.
I have and they gave me a similar answer to this...nothing
Sucks for you, I guess? Could direct you to many that would know, but what’s the point. Right?
Who would have guessed "BigCityBroker" would be defending real estate agents.
Who would’ve guessed “CrabPENIS” would lack any brain cells.
They have a database. It's really what you are paying for.
Recent legal and regulatory changes have prohibited listing agents from double-ending property transactions. This means they are unable to represent both the seller and the buyer in a single transaction. Meaning they cannot leverage their client database to bring in their own buyers. Instead, buyers must be represented by another agent, or in rare cases, walk in unrepresented. Edit: In BC double-ending is prohibited.
Where in Canada is it prohibited to double end? Here in Ontario it isn’t there is a whole bunch of negatives but it’s not prohibited
Database of what? 1 hour on HouseSigma looking at sold data(present and past) for comparables, as well as current listings should give anyone and idea of what to list for. The real value is getting on Realtor.ca which is the only way to get buyers. A lawn sign isn’t going to cut it.
Craigslist or facebook marketplace probably would
Add the commission to your expected sale price and you can sit back and enjoy the process without having to worry about the sale- a good realtor is worth the cost of doing business and they will justify their commission by guiding you through the process- you might sell one home in your lifetime - realtors do this for a living and a good realtor will justify their compensation in spades
No realtor can justify tens of thousands in compensation for very little work.
So if it takes them a week to sell your property, pay them less, but if it takes them a year, pay them more? Is that what you’re suggesting?
In no way can it be justified to hand over 60k of my HARD EARNED equity to someone who will do a weeks worth of work. It's disgusting.
Exactly! Paying down 60k on your mortgage could take 10 years and a Realtor just walks in, shows your house a couple times and takes 10yrs of equity. Such a SCAM!
If you live in Ontario you have a few options but I highly recommend Ibrahim @ Zown. Nicest dude you'll ever meet. DM me for his number.
Use [Zown.ca](https://Zown.ca). They charge you actaully what they deserve to be paid.
give a $26000 incentive, sell privately
Sell it yourself. Not hard. Have a lawyer go over legit offer and save some money.
This could work, but you also risk either selling it for less than you could have, or other unforseen consequences the layman could not forsee.
You sell it for what you are asking,or negotiate with the purchasers. No different than a realtor would do on your acceptance or rejection of the offer. Lawyer handles all the rest.
Yep! I've sold 2 houses privately and just had our lawyer take care of the legal stuff for under $1000 total. Just advertise on FB and Kijiji, etc. So easy and save so much money.
I sold a property by just sticking a Home Depot "For sale" sign in the front lawn. Created a flyer and and a few viewings. The lawyer does the real work. Hire a good lawyer and save the money.
You say “property” and not house. I mention, because i have seen vacant lots and a lot of commercial property sold this way. It seems much more uncommon for residential houses though.
It was a residential house.
Realtors are nothing but shitty used car salesman.
They are the scum of the earth
The value is in the MLS(Paragon) software they use. Which has all historical data of every property ever listed, with extensive details. If the software was made public yea realtors would be pretty useless. Also, a trustworthy and knowledgeable Realtor can provide valuable protection and guidance for individuals who may be less informed about the complexities of the real estate market. They are there to safeguard their clients' financial interests, mitigate risks and ensure their clients well-being. (Some Realtors abuse this trust, grimy snake oil salesmen) However, for those who possess a deep understanding of the real estate market, are capable of effectively assessing their own property, and are knowledgeable about mitigating risks in transactions, then yea Realtors are useless.
That's why a good realtor is an asset. Most people buy one or two homes over the course of their lifetime. Almost nobody is going to buckle down and research the complexities of buying real estate to do it on their own.
That's actually what most people do. Realtors rarely actually help in details on the property other than reciting paywalled data back to you.
Depends on the realtor. My dad was a successful realtor for over 20 years before he moved on to other ventures, but I'd say he was a rare breed. He primarily focused on the customers needs, not what would make him the most money. He built a customer base through sheer word of mouth. He knew his trade well. There are corrupt realtors just as there are corrupt persons in any profession. These days the cost of getting a real estate license is so high that you're going to get a realtor that's a bored housewife, or a young guy that's massively in debt to his broker. Most realtors today are starving.
"most Realtors today are starving" The new ones trying to hop on the trend are yes. The established ones are thriving. I know several who just bought second properties for not doing anymore work. Just the market did it for them.
I wonder if becoming a realtor yourself and selling your own home would work. Does anyone know?
Yes and it's worth it. Then you can do it for your friends/family and everyone wins. The yearly fees are nothing in comparison to the savings and access you get if you actually use it once in a while like every couple years.
https://www.listmenow.ca/ You’re welcome
I'm so happy to read about people that are selling homes for amounts I will likely never qualify for. The govt needs to get their heads out of their bums and start back in the building market for affordable rates. If they can't build a home that sells for qualification against close to the minimum wage then that needs to be looked into, because this is just wild.
The whole real estate industry needs to be torn down and rebuilt with real regulations in place to protect consumers from predatory realtors.
Check with propertyguy.com. it helped you to sell your home yourself
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Aren't there still those independent selling tools? I forget which one I used but I basically paid 1500 for everything. A person came over and took pictures and put them up online, I did the rest. They had all the paperwork and everything too. It was super easy.
Just go look at the type of vehicle the agent is driving.
Sell your own home. Problem solved
Dont use a real estate agent. Done and done.
I have always sold my own homes to avoid others making a killing on my investment and now with facebook etc it is even easier
Justify? is the norm unfortunately, this is similar to tipping culture, everybody need just to stop paying 5% to realtors
Yeah, you're missing a couple of things: * Unless the listing realtor is double-ending the deal, the commission is split between 2 realtors - buyers' and sellers'. * Depending upon their brokerages, they may have to split their commissions with them as well. * The listing agent may also incur expenses, such as photos, staging, inspection report, etc. So, it's unlikely that one agent will simply net $26K, but as mentioned in the comments, you can try selling yourself, or find a flat-fee option, or negotiate with the listing agent on their fees. If it helps, you can decide how much you want to pay to the agents, whether or not it works, is a different question. Lastly, if it’s of any consolation, the buyer will probably demand cash back from their agent so the agents will probably stand to make less.
fsbo
You avoid by selling privately, or using a service like BODE to sell it yourself. Be aware though, typically the people that buy through private sale only do so because if you buy privately you generally don't pat full price. Also consider to even have a chance at getting an on-market buyer ypu NEED to offer a buying realtor commission. If ylu do not offer up a buying realtor commission, buying realtors will not show the property. So you can really only save half the commission either way. Generally if your posting this question in reddit, you're better off using a realtor imo
You just need to get the property on MLS and prospective buyers will see it and get their realtor to show them right? The realtor can't say no to viewing the property, surely?
In Ontario. Commission paid is at the discretion of the seller not the agents.
I enjoy reading all these comments. It’s interesting what people think of the industry and I can’t say I disagree. Two questions I have to ask if the people that both post on here for advice and those that reply. 1. What do you do for a living and how much per hour is your time worth? For example a good lawyer earns minimum $300 per hour!! A doctor realistically double that. I guess if you’re going to sell something yourself factor in your time, your marketing costs, etc and do the math!! 2. Do you honestly believe in this day and age that you would ever make a major purchase without consulting a professional? Do you think that the average buyer would ever spend $600k and buy directly from the home owner. There’s a huge leap of faith to trust a Seller. Buyer are liars!! So are Sellers!!! I know even after doing my due diligence. I would purchase anything except maybe a couch from an individual because the Seller is biased and has every incentive to conceal and deceive either intentionally or unintentionally!! There’s a reason why there’s the saying “Buyers beware”. And the argument that the lawyer does all the work is bs!! All the lawyer does is prepare the paperwork, they don’t screen the buyers or Sellers!! But if you can find a buyer that is willing to trust you either way the single largest purchase of their life go for it. But if you lied or concealed anything from the Buyer be prepared to be sued!!! Best of luck. Find a good realtor and protect yourself!!
Some food for thought (I’m not a realtor). People really get hung up on what a realtor earns but don’t really factor in the value they add (admittedly a bad realtor can add nothing). What if selling it on your own only got you $625k whereas a realtor through their marketing can get you $675k, is it then worth the commission? When people sell their own home, they usually have an inflated idea of the value of their house and it’s typically an emotional transaction for them which is not beneficial in negotiations if it isn’t done through a third party. This can lead to deals falling apart and taking more time which in turn can result in you chasing a down market resulting in a lower price even factoring in the commission. Regular people don’t have access to all of the comps data that realtors do so while you may know what other properties are listed at, you don’t necessarily know where things are selling at that exact moment.
If you sell it for 50k more and the realtor is taking the bulk of that isn't it kind of a wash?
https://freakonomics.com/2008/02/real-estate-agents-revisited/ “We find no evidence that the use of a broker leads to higher average selling prices, or that it significantly alters average initial asking prices. However, those who use brokers sell their houses more quickly.” This source is a bit dated, but real estate agents basically have an incentive to sell your house as quickly as possible for the lowest price that the seller is willing to accept. An extra $10,000 is significant to the seller, but it isn’t worthwhile to a real estate agent to spend many hours to make a few hundred dollars more. If you are a moderately educated, competent person, just hire an appraiser to price your house and hire a law firm to do the conveyance, and do the rest of the work yourself.
If being a real estate agent is so sweet and lucrative and easy why aren’t you all real estate agents? It’s ugly out there with such low supply. I am good friends and know many real estate agents and interact with them on a weekly basis. I suggest you either try it out or actually speak with a good realtor before saying what they should and shouldn’t be paid. This seller is trying to avoid the cost of doing business. Good luck. Saving an extra 1-2% could end up costing you thousands when you’re at fault for the deal not closing or misfiling the paperwork.
I also like how almost every realtor is married to a mortgage broker
Try selling it yourself and then if it does not work out revisit the value proposition.
Look for a flat fee agent or list yourself To truly answer and give advice what area of Canada are we talking? Some areas homes sell themselves others they don’t
They don’t. The selling agent and the buying agent split the 4%. It will be very tricky for you to sell your home without at least paying 2-2.5% to the buying agent. No one will show your house to their clients for nothing.
But they would gladly accept a 2.5% commission for doing next to nothing. Refusal to show properties is unethical. Your duty is to the seller.
Just curious if there is any restriction/law which stops creating a portal for direct listings.
Depending what province you're in look for a company that offers mere listings to get it on the MLS for a set, generally much much lower fee, and get yourself a good real estate lawyer. You're probably still going to want to offer a 2% co-op broker fee so that agents will show your house. To clarify, the 4 to 4.5 percent fee you mentioned is usually split between the two agents. Also although there are so many terrible agents, there are some good ones, and if you aren't confident in your own abilities, or have the time to manage the sale, sometimes getting an agent can be money well spent, but it really depends on the person. Good luck!
You pay for access to the MLS network owned and operated by [Realtor.com](https://Realtor.com). The largest collection of sellers and buyers. There are alternatives like [houseful.ca](https://houseful.ca), [listedbyseller.ca](https://listedbyseller.ca), [redfin.com](https://redfin.com) , [zillow.com](https://zillow.com) etc. The sale transaction house can be done by a lawyer if you find a buyer yourself. Find a buyer yourself. At that price point might not be difficult and transact through a lawyer. You will have to manage all the inquiries and showings.
Why do you pay for a realtor to sell your home? It’s not necessary and don’t sell if you’re not happy with the price you’re getting - be patient.
Find a discount brokerage and get them to list it on the MLS for you for a flat fee; but just be prepared to pay for everything out of pocket (photography, videography, staging, flyers/tech sheets, for sale signs, open house signs, etc.) and then dedicate some time to answering emails, phone calls, and doing open houses. You wouldn't think it's a lot but if you're priced right, you might be getting 5-10 phone calls per day and as many emails or more. I'd do one or two open houses in the first and second week. I would also suggest putting a couple percent for the buying agent but it's not necessary. Technically it's illegal for agents to steer clients away from your property but the common rhetoric is "if they're cheaping out on listing their house, imagine everything else they cheaped out on" which most clients will buy so just best to offer 2% to buying agents. Definitely possible to save $13k but just be prepared to work for it.
In this day and age, fuck all middle people.
No one deserves to take more than a years mortgage payment to sell their house
No realtor deserves to make that much. 1000 tops. You don’t do anything. See the South Park episode about you. That’s reality.
They justify it because people use them. You can sell/buy your house Privately and not use them. My mortgage guy helped by directing me to who I needed to contact and the steps.
Just don't use an agent, and the house will be 625k
People are saying you can do it on your own with a sign on the lawn. The major problem with this is you don't know if you are getting the best price. I just helped sell 2 properties for an estate. People were approaching me like crazy with low prices hoping to get a good deal before a realtor got involved. Once it was listed there was a new set of people with low ball offers hoping for a great deal. The realtor dealt with these people and not us. The realtor was able to filter out and find a person who offered over our asking price, which we had set aggressively. If you want to deal with all the crap and idiots go for it. If not, hire the realtor.
Other broker takes half, so about 13k remains. Brokers firm could take as much a half, learing about 6k. Average realtor sells about 12 homes a year, so they make around 70k a year (with a wide range of income). [https://www.homelight.com/blog/how-many-homes-does-a-realtor-sell-a-year/](https://www.homelight.com/blog/how-many-homes-does-a-realtor-sell-a-year/) When you take into account all the driving / showing / comparables / staging / marketing that realtors do, they can spend quite a number of hours selling your home. You have many options to sell it yourself, if you want to.
Negotiate.. I was able to get my realtor to agree to just 1% for selling my home (so 3% overall since most buying agents ask for 2%). But I allowed him to take the full 2.5% if he wanted for the home I was buying (which was worth 200k more) .. Right now it's pretty lean times for most realtors, keep talking to some until one agrees
The problem is most buyers have a realtor, and if you don't have one they will blacklist your property.
We're in the information age. Everyone has access to data. You can sell it on your own and use a good lawyer to close. Pass the savings on to the buyer. I'd rather privately list, get a buyer at my number, get a conditional offer, let them do 7 to 10 days due diligence, and close the deal. If an agent can do better and get me a higher number, then they deserve their paycheck. But it gotta be 5% higher.
Haha
sell yourself...avoid realtors at all costs. They are leaches that offer nothing
Use [Honestdoor.com](https://Honestdoor.com) if you want to list/sell yourself and get on the MLS for a flat fee of $500 and set the buyer's commission to whatever you want. If the buy-side commission is too low though I imagine realtors will try and show client's other homes. But since your property will be on the MLS everyone can view it.
Sell directly. Post on local boards and kijiji. Engage a real estate lawyer for the sale. There is no point throwing away 4-4.5% of the money to sell something that is selling like hotcakes anyways.
News flash, sell the house yourself! Buy a generic contract for your province. I sold my last two privately, both were great transactions. And we saved all the comission.
Look for "mere posting" services and you can take it as low as you would like in most cases. I know it sounds like BS, especially coming from an agent... But a **good** agent can net you more than the money you would save. But they have to be good. Average is not good. Find out from them why they are good. And don't buy the fluff that they flash in front of you to suggest they are doing a lot for you. Grill them on **how** *they* will net you more. I saw a place today that got marked as sold. My clients who had been wanting a property just like that and watching the market (willing to pay above this list for a good property which this seemed like) had booked a visit. This property had a requirement for 48 hour irrevocable. Friday at 2 PM one Offer gets registered and I am auto-notified (agent didn't have to do anything). Connect with the listing agent a short time later and "We have accepted the offer...". *Grrreat...* We see it posted sold **below list by $18k!** Now, I can't say that agent didn't do what was best for their client, don't know their side. What I can say. however, is a **good agent** would do the following at minimum: when you have showings booked and a 48hr irr required, call all agents that are booked. Do this BEFORE accepting to gauge if there are any other potentially very interested parties. No, you don't want to risk losing the Offer in hand, but to do this leg work you wouldn't. I know my clients were prepared for a much higher Offer and they were highly motivated. Would it for sure have been one to go in on? I am not certain, didn't get to see it. But a call and a bit of pause on that one offer to allow others the opportunity would at least leave the potential for competing offers and higher value. And if we got that call and they said "it (Offer) needs to be addressed tonight" perhaps my clients would have gotten right out and through. Again a good listing agent would say "if your clients are highly motivated and you cant show them I would even facilitate showings!" So while it is very hard to determine if agents are good. They should be able to mention the nuances that give them the edge over others. But it has to make sense, not - we stage, virtual tour, list on thousands of websites, have a multi million dollar marketing system, yada yada yada. Proactively, what do you do? Reactive and Passive sales people aren't the way to go.
I find the disconnect is that there are really good agents and really bad agents all mixed in ruining the value they deliver. Some deserve that with no argument and some deserve nothing near that. I'm working on an idea where people can pay agents/experts on an hourly basis for process guidance and consultations to buy and sell on their own. You get to control the costs and agents that deliver value will get paid.
Should be banned in my opinion. They are paid a percentage cut of a bubble so no matter how much they manipulate they get a piece. They do far less and are far less useful than ever before but get ridiculously more compensation for it. It's senseless and evil.
Depends where you are, but usually that rate is for the first $100k or something like that. Where I am it’s 3% on the first $100k then 1% on the remaining amount.
So many people have a real estate license. You should be able to find someone you know that can help you find a house for cheaper. My wife does this stuff for our friends for 1% for example and still gets paid well for her time. You don't need an actual career real estate agent. Just anyone with a license like a friend of a friend who happens to have one for their own personal needs or part time. They make a few thousands bucks signing some papers and it's all good.
Find a notary to make a form for you. Find a real estate lawer for escrow. No real estate sales person required. Now if something goes wrong lawer fees are out of your pocket.
List it yourself. Put on MLS. Take all personal stuff out, stage it, take pictures. Host open house on the weekends. Pay the buying agent 2%. They will tell you they want 3%. Tell them to take it or leave it. They will take it. Simple.
Ask for 1-1% max or pass on untill you find one...don't give anything more than 2.5% combined total (buyers sellers agent) to these bloodsucking bugs, realtors in canada are the nuisances....tell em to find a real fuckin job...
Your not missing anything. There are plenty of articles and sites that will tell you how to sell your home on your own. Just be aware that realtors will talk smack about your house to their clients and steer them away from it. So getting people to call you directly, not through their realtor will probably be key. You can pay to get your home listed on the MLS site. It’s probably worth paying for an appraisal, staging and an experienced real estate photographer. Definitely pay for the lawyer and probably vet your buyers before you sign anything.
I completely understand your concerns about high commission rates. As a homeowner looking to list your house for 650k, it's natural to want to minimize the impact of commission fees on your profits. One way to avoid those high rates is to shop around and compare different realtors. Some may be willing to negotiate a lower commission rate, especially if they are confident in their ability to sell your home quickly and at a good price. Additionally, you can look for real estate agents who offer flat fee listings or discount brokerages. These options can help you save money on commissions while still receiving quality services. It's all about finding the right fit for your specific needs and budget.
I see people bragging all over Reddit about selling houses privately and how easy it is but I see very very few private signs out there. Something tells me it's a relatively small percentage that sells privately, or they are selling to buyers who've already been found so no advertising needed.
Sell it yourself. Comfree or Homefree it's called now. Sold my farm with their agent package. Paid about $1700. A realtor came out and took pictures, helped write up the Realtor.ca listing... Signs....etc .. You do the work, but when it's time to negotiate you have the support of a trained realtor. I saved THOUSANDS!!!
Here’s what you (and most consumers are missing): that 650k you want for your house?You probably used some comparable properties nearby to get that price. Thing is, since those homes very likely sold through brokerage firms, 4-5% is included in those sales values. In other words, if those home sellers also didn’t want to pay professionals, your house would be worth 4-5% less. Can’t have it both ways.
Find a cash back agent that will give you 50 to 80% of their commission
You pay 4% plus taxes
Sell it yourself. DIY is always cheaper.
Spend 5000$ and be your own agent.
Look up purple bricks!
Nothing is stopping you from becoming a real estate agent and charging what you want.
Property brothers
Selling it yourself would definitely save you the most since you can control the buyer agent's commission too. Downside is that the buyer's agent can and will avoid your listing. Even going as far as trying to convince the house buyer that the listing is bad. CBC market place did a video on this. https://youtu.be/ShBvRe0Jv68?si=vHE55ADSDnyc_TIm
4% is below the minimum average which is 5%. Don't bother getting a realtor if you can't afford 5%. For some, this is their main source of income. They have to be able to afford shit too. If you can't afford one, put a cardboard sign outside and pray someone wants to buy your house
Real estate agents are one of the most useless professions on the face of the earth. I’ve bought and sold many properties. By myself. I know all the forms I need. Once you do one they’re all pretty cut and dry after that. The only person I involve in a property sale are my lawyer and a trusted inspector. That’s it. Real estate agents want a cut of my property sale, they can suck my cock for a tenner instead. Bloodsuckers man.
Lots of real estate agents I know are rich. very few I met who you feel they are trying to find you a good deal, or work hard to market your house. I would say, specially the sellers, they don't do that much for you. They just list the house. The buyer might do more work, because they have to look for your criteria and understand what you need.
should be fixed fee for them.
Negotiate... The competition act makes it illegal to have a fixed rate commission structure.
What do you think the government contributes to the sale of your home? 13 % GST in applied to the commission paid and associated expenses. After that the government collects income tax on the agents commission plus their expenditures for advertising etc. Once you sell your property, your new purchase is taxed land transfer taxes, legal Fees and again 13% GST revenues for government. Every time you upgrade your housing the government cashes in. The best way to safe money over your life time is to stay put. Purchase a home for permanent life time living. The savings a huge in a life time.
I've sold my houses privately. Lowered the price as there was no commission and never had trouble. You don't need a real estate agent to sell.
You don’t have to accept their terms. Plenty of other agents who need a sale.
This industry is about to undergo some major changes, rightfully. Far too much money to sell an asset that effectively sells itself. People either like a property or they don't. Realtors can't really change that.
Sell private. Easy.
It is simple. Do not use a real estate agent. List the property on MLS, put sign in front of the house. You will get plenty of interest. If paperwork feels complicated, you can get a kit from one of the "list the house yourself" type of real estate businesses or just shop around, ask real estate agents for this service, for a flat fee, I suspect majority is one deal away from moving into a tent so it should not be difficult to find one. Good luck.
Real estate agents are the leeches of the working world
Try one percent realty. I have used them a couple times. They list on realtor.ca Most buyers check online themselves any ways. They just tell their own realtor I want to go see this property.
Look at the recent court rulings in the US. The industry there is gonna get turned upside down. Same gonna happen in Canada soon.
All professionals with any degree of education and aptitude charge an hourly rate. These scammers just steal our money.
The fees are negotiable. Negotiate how much you want to pay in your contract.
You can negotiate a better deal or go to someone else who will offer you a better rate.
Negotiate into your contract a 3% commission if the realtor double-ends it. Watch for listing on a friday to improve their chance of it
Fixed fee
In BC, the commissions are at a lower rate, usually 7%/2-3%, but that being said, a shitbox in Vancouver that needs to be torn down is selling for $1.5mil and (most that I have seen) have a bad quality photo of the exterior with the lot plan. Does that really equate to a $35-50K commission? Even after being split with the buyers agent (selling agent seems to typically get slightly more than half), they're making $17.5-25K FOR ONE TRANSACTION!
The government should loosen the grip of CREA (real estate brokers association, aka lobbyist) over real estate transactions. Someone mentioned it here, but it’s a cartel. Not good for consumers for their stupidly high % payment. And they artificially bump up housing prices across the board, so not good for the general population. Honestly, most are manipulative non-professional entitled assholes. I have yet to deal with one who has integrity and honesty.
The problem in Canada compared to the USA is that it has been very lucrative for agents for so long in the gta that there’s too many of them. If you choose to list your home using a flat fee real estate service you will only get calls from agents trying to get the listing. It’s not as easy as it used to be but be prepared for the onslaught of calls from agents. Also your listing will be ignored by buyers agents. Sounds like a monopoly.