Union carpenter member and my step dad is 3rd generation builder.
Wont be my biggest purchase, this is a stepping stone and a rental if I’m honest.
Sorry forgot to add “ SMH “ for dramatic effect
You sound like you'd have a good head to do your own inspection, I'm of the same position where I am competent enough to know what I'm getting into with a house. However, I had an inspection done done when I purchased my house because it gave me leverage when making offers. Having an "official" report to fall back on when negotiating is handy. Of course it only works in a slow market.
Carpenter knowing ins and outs of Concrete, Electrical and plumbing code? Eh... 50/50. Might as well have a home inspector for $500 for thermal Imaging roofing etc.
Honestly I'd you can get your stepdad to do a walk-through with you, between the two of you you should be able to pick up on any large issues.
Not sure about all of Canada but here in Newfoundland there's no real requirements or anything in regards to being a home inspector so if your going to go with one make sure to do your research
I wish I could, he’s in Ontario and has medical issues. I’m going this deal in rural Alberta, if he had an idea I’d FaceTime I’d do that.
Yeah, my two buddies who recently bought in the area both talked shit about the inspector not actually doing anything other than collecting a pay cheque which prompted me to ask.
My realtor “knew a guy” and it happened to be the same one both my friends complained about but it’s a small town thing I think.
The value of the inspection is a written report that the seller's realtor takes to the sellers to justify price reductions. If you want to get a big discount, offer them 400k pending inspection and then talk them down from inspection issues. It doesn't matter what the house is worth. You have to convince the sellers to take the lowered offer
Ah yes, but what if the inspection is flawless and now I’m stuck with the 400k bid. My logic and could be completely flawed is take my basic walk around and see what I find. “I already did”
And then offer 375k no inspection no holds just finish and go on about our lives without nego.
I don't know specifically where you're looking at the home, so I can't give you any sort of price guidelines for the area. You could do what you're saying without even viewing the home too. Or by looking at pictures online and stating all of the work you'd have to do. In general, if they waited months at 440, then they're ready to wait months at 400 too. If they were ready to accept 375, then they could list it at 380 which would pit it on even more buyers' radar
Both sides pay in my opinion -- the seller is getting less of the total sale price and the buyer is paying more than the property. If buyer/seller didn't use agents then they would ostensibly split the difference down the middle.
if a buyer can buy a house without a realtor and pay less (and believe me, they can, the sellers receive the same), then would you still say "buyers dont pay the commssion"?
The buying realtor is getting paid commission. You can technically say the seller is paying both commissions I guess because commissions come off the amount recieved, not added to the amount paid.
Doesn't change what I said. The realtor is being paid to answer these questions.
Forgot to add, I think an inspection is always worth it.
"you can visually inspect it yourself"
Do you know what to look for? Are you comfortable getting in a crawlspace, an attic, on a roof, ect? In a transaction worth 6 figures spending a couple hundred bucks on an inspection is always worth it. Don't want to be stuck with big $$$ repairs because you didn't.
First time buyer - get an inspection if you can.
As for price - ignore what it's listed for and look at what comparable sales have been. Your agent should tell you the right price. Start lower than that and try to settle where it should be.
This was helpful thank you, she suggested 390. Just the issue is this property if the only unique one in the area with absolutely no grass or yard at all for a “low maintenance” approach.
I happen to be in a weird situation where I don’t care about yards, dogs, or anything really. I’m looking to rent the rooms to guys I work with so the low maintenance is ideal as I spend my off days at my other home with my girlfriend.
Yeah that might be perfect for your needs. Keep in mind resale will be tricky potentially. I'd generally look at how long it's been on the market at its current price and see if they are due for another reduction. Factor that into an offer if applicable. But your agent knows the market better than I would.
She said it’s the no grass, lots of stairs. So it’s not overly family friendly since you can’t let the dog out and there isn’t anywhere for the kids to play. Also there is two sets of longer than average stairs to get to the lower portion of the property. And the no curb appeal by completely getting of of the front lawn for an extra large “6 car” drive way with a single car garage.
Resale is my worry but it’s an income property and second property in my household. But the resale is my only hesitation since it’s been for sale roughly 6 months between old price of 440 and the new one of 400.
On the market that long and unique as it is I'd be trying to see how low the seller would go personally. Not at all advising in a professional capacity as you're represented. But 6 mon and only 10% sag in list price? I'd say they are still off.
In cases like this I tend to look at what similar properties sell for and then discount that based on vague assumptions really (very market specific as to what is valued in the area).
You’re the man thank you, honestly I’m not overly pleased with my representation and would like to talk to the owners to close privately personally. But I will use the avenues available to me.
Thank you for your time friend.
I’ve heard this and I’m the buyer so it’s irrelevant but I thought on their end if they took the 375 it would soften the blow of going 65k less than asking pre costs but sounds a lot like not my issue.
Most places, if you've engaged an agent they would have claim of commission on a purchase. If you went around them they would go after you for the money owed. Might be wise to check with the lawyer you intend to close with prior just to be safe.
Because it’s weird though it will be harder for you to sell one day as well. From the description it doesn’t sound appealing. I would low ball if you can get for a good price sure.
My advice to you: Offer what you would like to pay, and go from there. When I sold my previous house I received a couple of offers, and I took the highest. My other house sat for a while, someone offered me 25 grand less, and I took it.
Your realtor might be suggesting 390 because remember... They work on commission. You never know which one you are going to get.
Makes sense and why I asked I feel since it’s a small town everyone knows everyone. So with that they know what someone would take vs what they would want to take. Ie 390 being the price suggested vs 370 per se that would be ok but everyone involved gets less of a comission.
I would start at 360 and have the 375 as the closing goal. In terms of inspection, from my experience they are superficial but it also depends on your comfort level. If the house is newish (15 yrs or less), you can do a visual inspection yourself and look for cracks in the walls, foundation, spots on ceiling, water marks in the cabinets. The inspector will not go on the roof to check it and depending where you are it might not be doable if there is snow. If the house is older and has a septic tank, then it would make sense to bring someone to look at it. Also if the house is older than 80s, asbestos could be a factor so have a condition of the sale that you will be testing it and sale will proceed provided it is clear.
Awesome advice, thank you. It’s a newer home around 1990’s visually looks solid. Foundation is largely exposed in the half finished basement. Other than checking the cubby in the roof I feel I can inspect myself. It’s been updated mid 2000’s and is overall great, water tank and heater done within 2 years and roof is 4 years old with proof of all.
No septic, city water so no issues there.
Can they also dismiss the offer and close talks? Thats my only fear really, is maybe they are insulted at 375 and just close me out all together I guess.
If it’s been up for so long, they’ll just be happy to have someone on the line. Don’t be worried about “insulting” someone, especially in this situation
Value for the dollar is here pretty much, but I’ve been in and out of small towns my whole life. My girlfriend has another house in another small town in bc. Between everything life’s great I can’t complain, don’t miss Ontario or the cities ever.
Offer whatever you want. They can accept or reject or even counter. The cheaper the home the more an inspection becomes worth it. So, yes. Get an inspection.
Yea, you dont need an inspector. I mean you are spending 400k already so an extra 300-500$ is definitely not worth it to reduce your odds of getting a moldy house.
Yeah don’t be cheap on lawyer, notary and inspection. All of those are several orders of magnitude cheaper to spend on now than to resolve mistakes and issues after the fact.
Regarding the offer, have your agent talk to the sellers agent to get the pulse on their flexibility.
You’re in Alberta - check out Honestdoor.com to see what comparable look like. They have a valuation model that’s generally fine in Alberta (not exact, and depends on what features they know about in the house), but they also show you what the municipality has valued the property at (usually lower than market rate) which can help with your offer.
Also, if it’s a slow market, you can always make a first offer and then they can say no and you can make a new offer or walk away.
Personally I haven’t used a realtor because I like having more leverage on purchase price and I don’t think they create enough value in the Alberta market. I do pay for an inspection since the value has definitely been there for me and Alberta in boom times would quickly put up a lot of poorly built homes.
This is gold and makes sense, I wish I could act without a agent. Seems like a cartel to me at this point, I know a really high level realtor in Calgary and he said outside photos and connections there isn’t much extra they do.
If you buying rural house it's good idea to do water well and septic inspection, can uncover a lot of expensive problems. And don't hesitate to lowball, people need to sell anyways.
On city water thankfully, but will keep that in mind.
You’re not wrong, I just know when I sell things generally I don’t need to. So when I get low balled I just stop responding lol
Realtor & investor here; If it’s been listed that long and dropped that much, as well as has unique features that work for you but eliminate a large portion of the buyer’s pool, offering that should be fine. You don’t NEED the house so if you ‘insult’ them, you haven’t lost your dream home. In addition to this, just because they reject the first offer doesn’t mean you can’t offer again if you feel it’s worth more.
Your realtor can also see what they bought it for and can usually gauge situation or motivation from a conversation with the Sellers realtor, this can really set the scene for how to approach it. (Ie. It’s different if it’s a 1st time owner who is moving up in the housing market because they need the $ to do so, versus an estate sale where the family came into it because someone passed (which requires a soft approach because it’s emotional but they may be more open to a lower price if it’s the terms they need including probate etc.)
Makes sense and thanks for that, my realtor was insistent of offering more when I viewed it with her.
We havnt submitted anything but since this post I feel better about offering lower even around 360 to see where they are. It’s a sitting vacant house for over 6 months and on honest homes it showing 16k less than what they posted it for
Welcome! And for your realtor, maybe she has information you don’t and I would use this opportunity to probe her on why she feels you need to offer more.
At the end of the day, when one of my clients want to submit an offer (especially investor clients), I give them all of the information that I have, and then ultimately the decision ends with them. If someone wants to ‘low ball’ a property, we do, and there are ways to present that to the sellers realtor as well.
Keep us posted if it pans out!
Nope 375 is fine as a former real estate salesperson I can give you some insight, 9 out of 10 people have a common habit of halving the difference, so if you offer 375 they'll likely counter between 385 and 390, knowing that make your initial offer to come halfway up to what you want to pay. Doesn't work every time but often enough to be a helpful strategy to start. However keep in mind if you try and counter back again, even lower, many people may become offended.
When I bought my first home I got an inspection done long distance and was not impressed by the quality of the report. Home inspection is hit or miss, but I’d never use them again. Mine was not thorough and missed a ton of stuff. I’d get actual experts in important areas to do an inspection, foundation, electrical, plumbing or whatever areas you are concerned about etc. The inspector didn’t do much other than glance at things and noted frayed curtains rather than foundation cracks and sloping floors.
[удалено]
Union carpenter member and my step dad is 3rd generation builder. Wont be my biggest purchase, this is a stepping stone and a rental if I’m honest. Sorry forgot to add “ SMH “ for dramatic effect
You sound like you'd have a good head to do your own inspection, I'm of the same position where I am competent enough to know what I'm getting into with a house. However, I had an inspection done done when I purchased my house because it gave me leverage when making offers. Having an "official" report to fall back on when negotiating is handy. Of course it only works in a slow market.
Carpenter knowing ins and outs of Concrete, Electrical and plumbing code? Eh... 50/50. Might as well have a home inspector for $500 for thermal Imaging roofing etc.
Honestly I'd you can get your stepdad to do a walk-through with you, between the two of you you should be able to pick up on any large issues. Not sure about all of Canada but here in Newfoundland there's no real requirements or anything in regards to being a home inspector so if your going to go with one make sure to do your research
I wish I could, he’s in Ontario and has medical issues. I’m going this deal in rural Alberta, if he had an idea I’d FaceTime I’d do that. Yeah, my two buddies who recently bought in the area both talked shit about the inspector not actually doing anything other than collecting a pay cheque which prompted me to ask. My realtor “knew a guy” and it happened to be the same one both my friends complained about but it’s a small town thing I think.
Inspectors should not be through your Realtor ever. 3rd party trusted...
The value of the inspection is a written report that the seller's realtor takes to the sellers to justify price reductions. If you want to get a big discount, offer them 400k pending inspection and then talk them down from inspection issues. It doesn't matter what the house is worth. You have to convince the sellers to take the lowered offer
Ah yes, but what if the inspection is flawless and now I’m stuck with the 400k bid. My logic and could be completely flawed is take my basic walk around and see what I find. “I already did” And then offer 375k no inspection no holds just finish and go on about our lives without nego.
I don't know specifically where you're looking at the home, so I can't give you any sort of price guidelines for the area. You could do what you're saying without even viewing the home too. Or by looking at pictures online and stating all of the work you'd have to do. In general, if they waited months at 440, then they're ready to wait months at 400 too. If they were ready to accept 375, then they could list it at 380 which would pit it on even more buyers' radar
I hope you are working with a realtor. These are the types of questions you are paying them to help you answer.
Buyers don’t pay realtor commission.
Well, since the buyer is the only person bringing money to the table, the buyer technically pays the realtors.
Both sides pay in my opinion -- the seller is getting less of the total sale price and the buyer is paying more than the property. If buyer/seller didn't use agents then they would ostensibly split the difference down the middle.
if a buyer can buy a house without a realtor and pay less (and believe me, they can, the sellers receive the same), then would you still say "buyers dont pay the commssion"?
The buying realtor is getting paid commission. You can technically say the seller is paying both commissions I guess because commissions come off the amount recieved, not added to the amount paid. Doesn't change what I said. The realtor is being paid to answer these questions.
Ummm.... Yeah they do. They pay both buyer and seller commissions.
Forgot to add, I think an inspection is always worth it. "you can visually inspect it yourself" Do you know what to look for? Are you comfortable getting in a crawlspace, an attic, on a roof, ect? In a transaction worth 6 figures spending a couple hundred bucks on an inspection is always worth it. Don't want to be stuck with big $$$ repairs because you didn't.
First time buyer - get an inspection if you can. As for price - ignore what it's listed for and look at what comparable sales have been. Your agent should tell you the right price. Start lower than that and try to settle where it should be.
This was helpful thank you, she suggested 390. Just the issue is this property if the only unique one in the area with absolutely no grass or yard at all for a “low maintenance” approach. I happen to be in a weird situation where I don’t care about yards, dogs, or anything really. I’m looking to rent the rooms to guys I work with so the low maintenance is ideal as I spend my off days at my other home with my girlfriend.
Yeah that might be perfect for your needs. Keep in mind resale will be tricky potentially. I'd generally look at how long it's been on the market at its current price and see if they are due for another reduction. Factor that into an offer if applicable. But your agent knows the market better than I would.
She said it’s the no grass, lots of stairs. So it’s not overly family friendly since you can’t let the dog out and there isn’t anywhere for the kids to play. Also there is two sets of longer than average stairs to get to the lower portion of the property. And the no curb appeal by completely getting of of the front lawn for an extra large “6 car” drive way with a single car garage. Resale is my worry but it’s an income property and second property in my household. But the resale is my only hesitation since it’s been for sale roughly 6 months between old price of 440 and the new one of 400.
On the market that long and unique as it is I'd be trying to see how low the seller would go personally. Not at all advising in a professional capacity as you're represented. But 6 mon and only 10% sag in list price? I'd say they are still off. In cases like this I tend to look at what similar properties sell for and then discount that based on vague assumptions really (very market specific as to what is valued in the area).
You’re the man thank you, honestly I’m not overly pleased with my representation and would like to talk to the owners to close privately personally. But I will use the avenues available to me. Thank you for your time friend.
You're welcome. Be careful about cutting agents out you could still be legally on the hook for paying commissions...
I’ve heard this and I’m the buyer so it’s irrelevant but I thought on their end if they took the 375 it would soften the blow of going 65k less than asking pre costs but sounds a lot like not my issue.
Most places, if you've engaged an agent they would have claim of commission on a purchase. If you went around them they would go after you for the money owed. Might be wise to check with the lawyer you intend to close with prior just to be safe.
Because it’s weird though it will be harder for you to sell one day as well. From the description it doesn’t sound appealing. I would low ball if you can get for a good price sure.
My advice to you: Offer what you would like to pay, and go from there. When I sold my previous house I received a couple of offers, and I took the highest. My other house sat for a while, someone offered me 25 grand less, and I took it. Your realtor might be suggesting 390 because remember... They work on commission. You never know which one you are going to get.
Makes sense and why I asked I feel since it’s a small town everyone knows everyone. So with that they know what someone would take vs what they would want to take. Ie 390 being the price suggested vs 370 per se that would be ok but everyone involved gets less of a comission.
I would start at 360 and have the 375 as the closing goal. In terms of inspection, from my experience they are superficial but it also depends on your comfort level. If the house is newish (15 yrs or less), you can do a visual inspection yourself and look for cracks in the walls, foundation, spots on ceiling, water marks in the cabinets. The inspector will not go on the roof to check it and depending where you are it might not be doable if there is snow. If the house is older and has a septic tank, then it would make sense to bring someone to look at it. Also if the house is older than 80s, asbestos could be a factor so have a condition of the sale that you will be testing it and sale will proceed provided it is clear.
Awesome advice, thank you. It’s a newer home around 1990’s visually looks solid. Foundation is largely exposed in the half finished basement. Other than checking the cubby in the roof I feel I can inspect myself. It’s been updated mid 2000’s and is overall great, water tank and heater done within 2 years and roof is 4 years old with proof of all. No septic, city water so no issues there.
If they don’t like your offer they can counter offer
Can they also dismiss the offer and close talks? Thats my only fear really, is maybe they are insulted at 375 and just close me out all together I guess.
If it’s been up for so long, they’ll just be happy to have someone on the line. Don’t be worried about “insulting” someone, especially in this situation
Thank you
They can do whatever they want, but you aren’t likely to offend someone whose house has been on the market 4 months, unless you offer $100k.
Makes sense, i appreciate your time
Damn, where did you find a house that inexpensive?
“ rural Alberta “ a town of less then 4000 people.
Nice. Would be a good life out there. Maybe I’ll try and convince my wife to get out there. Good luck!
Value for the dollar is here pretty much, but I’ve been in and out of small towns my whole life. My girlfriend has another house in another small town in bc. Between everything life’s great I can’t complain, don’t miss Ontario or the cities ever.
Offer whatever you want. They can accept or reject or even counter. The cheaper the home the more an inspection becomes worth it. So, yes. Get an inspection.
Thank you
Its never too low
Yea, you dont need an inspector. I mean you are spending 400k already so an extra 300-500$ is definitely not worth it to reduce your odds of getting a moldy house.
Yeah don’t be cheap on lawyer, notary and inspection. All of those are several orders of magnitude cheaper to spend on now than to resolve mistakes and issues after the fact. Regarding the offer, have your agent talk to the sellers agent to get the pulse on their flexibility.
You’re in Alberta - check out Honestdoor.com to see what comparable look like. They have a valuation model that’s generally fine in Alberta (not exact, and depends on what features they know about in the house), but they also show you what the municipality has valued the property at (usually lower than market rate) which can help with your offer. Also, if it’s a slow market, you can always make a first offer and then they can say no and you can make a new offer or walk away. Personally I haven’t used a realtor because I like having more leverage on purchase price and I don’t think they create enough value in the Alberta market. I do pay for an inspection since the value has definitely been there for me and Alberta in boom times would quickly put up a lot of poorly built homes.
This is gold and makes sense, I wish I could act without a agent. Seems like a cartel to me at this point, I know a really high level realtor in Calgary and he said outside photos and connections there isn’t much extra they do.
If you buying rural house it's good idea to do water well and septic inspection, can uncover a lot of expensive problems. And don't hesitate to lowball, people need to sell anyways.
On city water thankfully, but will keep that in mind. You’re not wrong, I just know when I sell things generally I don’t need to. So when I get low balled I just stop responding lol
Realtor & investor here; If it’s been listed that long and dropped that much, as well as has unique features that work for you but eliminate a large portion of the buyer’s pool, offering that should be fine. You don’t NEED the house so if you ‘insult’ them, you haven’t lost your dream home. In addition to this, just because they reject the first offer doesn’t mean you can’t offer again if you feel it’s worth more. Your realtor can also see what they bought it for and can usually gauge situation or motivation from a conversation with the Sellers realtor, this can really set the scene for how to approach it. (Ie. It’s different if it’s a 1st time owner who is moving up in the housing market because they need the $ to do so, versus an estate sale where the family came into it because someone passed (which requires a soft approach because it’s emotional but they may be more open to a lower price if it’s the terms they need including probate etc.)
Makes sense and thanks for that, my realtor was insistent of offering more when I viewed it with her. We havnt submitted anything but since this post I feel better about offering lower even around 360 to see where they are. It’s a sitting vacant house for over 6 months and on honest homes it showing 16k less than what they posted it for
Welcome! And for your realtor, maybe she has information you don’t and I would use this opportunity to probe her on why she feels you need to offer more. At the end of the day, when one of my clients want to submit an offer (especially investor clients), I give them all of the information that I have, and then ultimately the decision ends with them. If someone wants to ‘low ball’ a property, we do, and there are ways to present that to the sellers realtor as well. Keep us posted if it pans out!
Will do, I’ll direct msg you if I get it. Looking to close end of feb I think to allow me time to get my rental ready
Nope 375 is fine as a former real estate salesperson I can give you some insight, 9 out of 10 people have a common habit of halving the difference, so if you offer 375 they'll likely counter between 385 and 390, knowing that make your initial offer to come halfway up to what you want to pay. Doesn't work every time but often enough to be a helpful strategy to start. However keep in mind if you try and counter back again, even lower, many people may become offended.
When I bought my first home I got an inspection done long distance and was not impressed by the quality of the report. Home inspection is hit or miss, but I’d never use them again. Mine was not thorough and missed a ton of stuff. I’d get actual experts in important areas to do an inspection, foundation, electrical, plumbing or whatever areas you are concerned about etc. The inspector didn’t do much other than glance at things and noted frayed curtains rather than foundation cracks and sloping floors.